Escaping Polygamy - General Discussion

[maraleia]

In other news http://beta.deseretnews.com/article/865661259/FBI-offers-50K-reward-for-capture-of-FLDS-leader-Lyle-Jeffs.html?pg=all

[toodles]

As usual, last night's show broke my heart.  And it makes  blood boil.  And it makes me worry.  I hope the God squad thugs didn't steal the food the girls brought.  That's the worry part.

Joe and the little girl that tried for help and committed suicide-heart break part

The blood boil part-the fact that this is 2016 and this is happening every damn day in plain sight of everyone watching this show.  I realize these cults are way underground, but this is on my tv on Sunday nights.

Child abuse is illegal.  Unsafe living conditions will get your house condemned and usually involves cps if there are kids.  But this is tolerated.

If Warren jeffs is in prison, how does he have the power to rule with an iron fist from behind bars?

I need to stop now.  The blood boiling is coming back.

[Dorne2.0]

Quote

In a warrant issued with the fraud indictment earlier this year, investigators said few FLDS members have been told about the South America property, which Lyle Jeffs owns.

I did hear rumors of Mormon polygamists in South America. I hoped they were untrue, they already have exported the cults to Mexico and Canada, now a South American Country is next? They have enough problems!  

Edited August 30, 2016 by Dorne2.0

[Dorne2.0]

1 hour ago, toodles said:

If Warren jeffs is in prison, how does he have the power to rule with an iron fist from behind bars?

His brothers Lyle, Nephi and Isaac visit him and write down his "revelations"/orders. Well, Lyle is on the run now but Nephi and Isaac are supposedly very loyal too. These three helped Warren's grab for power when their father had a stroke. They would keep the old man drugged and kept marrying him off to young girls to keep him happy, while Warren spoke for him. For example, when Elissa Wall insisted to talk to him about her impending forced marriage she told him: do you know I'm only fourteen and that Allan is my first cousin?, he replied: What? What is Warren thinking? And when she said it felt wrong to marry Allan he said "follow you heart, sweetty". She was elated until they left the room and Warren informed her her heart was in the wrong place and the marriage would happen. Not that Rulon was a good person, he raped Rebbeca Musser, but in his times many women married in their late-teens to early twenties and rarely at sixteen. He didn't want the cops to have reason to go after the FLDS.

It is so unnerving, specially since polygamist cut leader Ervil Lebaron ordered 25 murders from prison as blood atonement. I know prisioners have constitutional rights, but there should be exceptions for freaking crazy cult leaders with followers outside willing to carry out their every order.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Dorne2.0
spelling

[WireWrap]

16 minutes ago, toodles said:

As usual, last night's show broke my heart.  And it makes  blood boil.  And it makes me worry.  I hope the God squad thugs didn't steal the food the girls brought.  That's the worry part.

Joe and the little girl that tried for help and committed suicide-heart break part

The blood boil part-the fact that this is 2016 and this is happening every damn day in plain sight of everyone watching this show.  I realize these cults are way underground, but this is on my tv on Sunday nights.

Child abuse is illegal.  Unsafe living conditions will get your house condemned and usually involves cps if there are kids.  But this is tolerated.

If Warren jeffs is in prison, how does he have the power to rule with an iron fist from behind bars?

I need to stop now.  The blood boiling is coming back.

If the God Squad realized what they were doing, they would either take the food or tell those that received it that it was poisoned. I doubt it was eaten. Not all of the "cults" operate underground, the Order is living in main stream society and these groups/cults live in all over the world.

15 minutes ago, Dorne2.0 said:

I did hear rumors of Mormon polygamists in South America. I hoped they were untrue, they already have exported the cults to Mexico and Canada, now a South American country is next? They have enough problems!  

I have no doubt that they have spread throughout central and south America, they are trying to find someplace where they will be left alone to do as they please, much like cockroaches. The group in Canada has been there almost as long as the Short Creek group, they are connected to each other.

[toodles]

5 minutes ago, Dorne2.0 said:

His brothers Lyle, Nephi and Isaac visit him and write down his "revelations"/orders. Well, Lyle is on the run now but Nephi and Isaac are supposedly very loyal too. These three helped Warren's grab for power when their father has a stroke. They would keep the old man drugged and kept marrying him off to young girls to keep him happy, while Warren spoke for him. For example, when Elissa Wall insisted to talk to him about her impending forced marriage she told him: do you know I'm only fourteen and that Allan is my first cousin?, he replied: What? What is Warren thinking? And when she said it felt wrong to marry Allan he said "follow you heart, sweety". She was elated until they left the roon and Warren informed her her heart was in the wrong place and the marriage would happen. Not that Rulon was a good person, he raped Rebbeca Musser, but in his times many women married in their twenties and rarely at sixteen. He didn't want the cops to have reason to go after the FLDS.

It is so unnerving, specially since polygamist cut leader Ervil Lebaron ordered 25 murders from prison as blood atonement. I know prisioners have constitutional rights, but there should be exceptions for freaking crazy cult leaders with followers outside willing to carry out their every order.

Thank you for the info.  Jeffs may have rights, but Jim Jones dangerous bat shit crazy is something else.  I agree with you 10000 percent.

[Dorne2.0]

11 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

I have no doubt that they have spread throughout central and south America, they are trying to find someplace where they will be left alone to do as they please, much like cockroaches. The group in Canada has been there almost as long as the Short Creek group, they are connected to each other.

Yeah, I heard of a guy in Brazil married to two sisters and heard he was a Mormon Polygamist. This disturbs me to no end, that they are spreading to Countries that already have problems with women's rights, child sexual abuse and child labor. All those corrupt governments and those poor explored people!

Edited August 30, 2016 by Dorne2.0
spelling

[WireWrap]

4 minutes ago, Dorne2.0 said:

Yeah, I heard of a guy in Brazil married to two sisters and heard he was a Mormon Polygamist. This disturbs me to no end, that they are spreading to countries that already have problems with women's rights, child sexual abuse and child labor. All those corrupt governments and those poor explored people!

Hell, our own Government hasn't done a thing even though plural marriage is illegal. Every time the government, be it local/state/Federal, try to put a stop to it the general public outcry is in favor of the FLDS and not those trying to do their jobs protecting the minor children. 

[Dorne2.0]

1 hour ago, WireWrap said:

Hell, our own Government hasn't done a thing even though plural marriage is illegal. Every time the government, be it local/state/Federal, try to put a stop to it the general public outcry is in favor of the FLDS and not those trying to do their jobs protecting the minor children. 

I wish I knew these people who side with the FLDS. I never met a single person who knew off them and didn't despise them for the child abuse. But I heard a lot about the public opinion siding with them, is it in Utah?

I just wanna meet these people who side with the FLDS and then I want to slap them.

[WireWrap]

13 minutes ago, Dorne2.0 said:

I wish I knew these people who side with the FLDS. I never met a single person who knew off them and didn't despise them for the child abuse. But I heard a lot about the public opinion siding with them, is it in Utah?

I just wanna meet these people who side with the FLDS and then I want to slap them.

No, sadly it is across the country. When the raid happened on the Texas compound there was a huge blowback from the media coverage of crying mothers/children that was seen on the evening news, not just in Texas, but shore to shore. Most average people in this country don't understand what these groups are like behind closed doors and even when they are aware, the sight of children screaming/crying as they are removed from their mothers changes peoples minds or they make excuse about what they know.

Too many people think that these women have the ability to just walk away if they are unhappy, they don't understand the brain washing they go through starting at birth, they have no idea how isolated they are kept, no idea how much incest/emotional/physical abuse these women go through. They don't realize it is a normal part of their lives, a day to day part of their way of living.  To top it all off, so many think the government is either doing something about it or that they are interfering to much. Then you have the "There's nothing I can do about it" or the "It doesn't affect me" attitudes even when they dislike the FLDS or other Groups like them, including The Order. The people that hate any and all government interference even when they dislike these groups because they hate the government more. Finally, todays headlines become tomorrows forgotten stories when the next big story hits the news stands/TV.

[Dorne2.0]

19 minutes ago, WireWrap said:

No, sadly it is across the country. When the raid happened on the Texas compound there was a huge blowback from the media coverage of crying mothers/children that was seen on the evening news, not just in Texas, but shore to shore. Most average people in this country don't understand what these groups are like behind closed doors and even when they are aware, the sight of children screaming/crying as they are removed from their mothers changes peoples minds or they make excuse about what they know.

Too many people think that these women have the ability to just walk away if they are unhappy, they don't understand the brain washing they go through starting at birth, they have no idea how isolated they are kept, no idea how much incest/emotional/physical abuse these women go through. They don't realize it is a normal part of their lives, a day to day part of their way of living.  To top it all off, so many think the government is either doing something about it or that they are interfering to much. Then you have the "There's nothing I can do about it" or the "It doesn't affect me" attitudes even when they dislike the FLDS or other Groups like them, including The Order. The people that hate any and all government interference even when they dislike these groups because they hate the government more. Finally, todays headlines become tomorrows forgotten stories when the next big story hits the news stands/TV.

I see. Sigh. That's really sad and frustating. People should inform themselves better before taking a cause to defend. I know I don't have opinions on things I haven't read, studied or really informed myself about. I am more confortable not taking a side and saying I don't know much about it than making a fool or an ass out of myself. 

[WireWrap]

8 minutes ago, Dorne2.0 said:

I see. Sigh. That's really sad and frustating. People should inform themselves better before taking a cause to defend. I know I don't have opinions on things I haven't read, studied or really informed myself about. I am more confortable not taking a side and saying I don't know much about it than making a fool or an ass out of myself. 

All they saw were mothers/children separated by the government, the media did a poor job of getting the all information/truth out to the public. Sadly, the news media is more about headline grabbing news/pictures/film but not telling the whole story and then moving on to the next big story.

[WireWrap]

Interesting article on the Canadian group in Bountiful that is tied to the FLDS/Jeffs. Read all the comments to see that this investigation has gone on for 20+ years with little to nothing happening to the perpetrators. http://www.sltrib.com/news/4087754-155/vice-canada-searches-for-a-polygamous

[Danag]

WOW. Religions are evil. If I were "Joe", I would play the game and visit the FAMILY at the compound PRETENDING to be making up my mind whether I want to come back.... I would try to persuade a couple of my siblings to run away with me so I could have some family with me. I can understand the loneliness Joe feels being in the outside world by himself. He's having a difficult time deciding whether he wants to go back and live the "misery loves company" world just so that he can live with his family, or stay outside, because he knows his father does NOT love him. It would be his siblings that would provide the emotional support that he desires. He knows the outside world is treating him better.....

Joe CANNOT trust his father. He threw him out once, he'll do it again, but this time he'll take all of his money. I hope he stays strong

[Dorne2.0]

7 hours ago, WireWrap said:

Interesting article on the Canadian group in Bountiful that is tied to the FLDS/Jeffs. Read all the comments to see that this investigation has gone on for 20+ years with little to nothing happening to the perpetrators. http://www.sltrib.com/news/4087754-155/vice-canada-searches-for-a-polygamous

God, another two 12-years-olds and a 13-year-old Warren married and raped. Another audio recording of his creepy "training sessions" with a child he married. Burn in hell, Warren.

Quote

WOW. Religions are evil.

I'm inclined to mostly agree. I know great people who are religious though, one of my best friends is a Luteran Minister's daughter.

Signed, someone who was exorcised once and taken to two faith healers when she needed therapy and medication. My parents didn't believe in therapy. It took my bio-mom's brother/my godfather to threaten to call autorities or even sue for custody of me to have them take me to the therapist he chose who worked with mental/religious abuse. Just last week my mom was looking for an exorcist for my sister because and I quote "her last boyfriend's ex was 'a gipsy' who we think put a curse on her". My sister doesn't believe in exorcisms but goes to them if need be to calm my parents. She made them stop believing in the last guy when she jokingly asked if there was a demon in one of her dogs and he answered "yes, there is one leaving one of them right now" and my mom was like "Can you believe it? He said a dog was possessed".

When my sister left the room my mom started talking about how sometimes she looked in my sister's eyes and she saw someone or something else there. I could not make this shit up, you should've seen my husband's face right then.

Edited August 30, 2016 by Dorne2.0
spelling

[buttercupia]

There's  a reason these assholes set up in states like arizona and utah and texas where "personal freedumbs" are paramount. minimal interference from the evil, evil government when it comes to substandard education and child abuse.

[Dorne2.0]

Hey, Texas may try to sabotage abortion rights every chance they get, some of their people may wave the confederate flag, but when Warren Jeffs thought he was being persecuted in Utah and tried to build his pedo haven in Texas, Texas was like "Oh heck no, not in Texas you sicko, we are not those Utah softies, hands off the children!" Texas put that monster away for life. To quote Rebecca Musser, "God bless Texas" and all the best wishes to the team that put Warren away.

Meanwhile, a lot of authorities in Utah will burn in hell right next to Cardinal Law and a lot of important people from the Church I was born into. There, I said it. For all I complain about my childhood, I'm thankful I was never sexually abused.

The fact a Utah judge overturned W. J conviction for being an accomplice to Elissa Wall's rape makes me sick. Warren got his though, and so did Fred Jessop, who decided to give Elissa to Allan Steed as payment for some jobs he did for him. Allan wanted a wife and Elissa was the stepdaughter Fred cared least about. A few years later, Warren had Fred literally drugged, kidnapped and imprisoned while his wives were given to another man. Years later he was returned to Colorado City while in a coma and died there. 

Edited August 31, 2016 by Dorne2.0
spelling

[WireWrap]

Sad episode tonight, really sad. Fred will never leave The Order to get competent medical help/care, ever.

[Court]

Last night's episode was difficult to watch. That man so desperately needed medical help and wouldn't agree to it. He is dying and still fully committed to the Order that is basically helping speed up his death.

I think if the daughter in law hadn't been there, he may have gone with Mandi. 

[Princess Chloe]

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that the sisters can find a nice house for Ariel and Vanna (the two that left the FLDS and still believe in the Jeffs as leaders-SMH) but can't find Shannel and Kollene's  mom a place to live?

[toodles]

1 hour ago, Princess Chloe said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that the sisters can find a nice house for Ariel and Vanna (the two that left the FLDS and still believe in the Jeffs as leaders-SMH) but can't find Shannel and Kollene's  mom a place to live?

Great minds think alike.  Lol.  I said basically the same thing a few posts back.  Very weird.

[Princess Chloe]

Sorry, toodles, didn't see your comment, I was too distracted by some of the other posts.... but we're right... if those two can score a nice place to live, for free it seems (then again, maybe not for free), then why doesn't Shirley rate? One heck of a slap in the face that wifey #10 gets a remodel and you know they left it unlocked so that Shirley would see it.

Does anyone know if Jessica's cousin Hannah (seen in the original two hour docu-movie) remained out? I was under the impression (from other sources) that she went back.

[WireWrap]

3 hours ago, Princess Chloe said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that the sisters can find a nice house for Ariel and Vanna (the two that left the FLDS and still believe in the Jeffs as leaders-SMH) but can't find Shannel and Kollene's  mom a place to live?

See below.

1 hour ago, toodles said:

Great minds think alike.  Lol.  I said basically the same thing a few posts back.  Very weird.

I think that they are dependent on others lending them apartments to use and maybe no one had an open apartment available when the mom was ready to leave The Order. Also, the FLDS sisters apartment was nowhere near the FLDS compound and might not work for someone fleeing The Order which operates in that area. IMO, it would be better for those escaping The Order to go to a different city, better yet, a different state altogether.

 

1 hour ago, Princess Chloe said:

Sorry, toodles, didn't see your comment, I was too distracted by some of the other posts.... but we're right... if those two can score a nice place to live, for free it seems (then again, maybe not for free), then why doesn't Shirley rate? One heck of a slap in the face that wifey #10 gets a remodel and you know they left it unlocked so that Shirley would see it.

Does anyone know if Jessica's cousin Hannah (seen in the original two hour docu-movie) remained out? I was under the impression (from other sources) that she went back.

I doubt that the apartments are totally free, maybe for a few weeks at first, then I am sure that these women start getting Government assistance, including a housing allotment, which will help pay rent.

[toodles]

2 hours ago, Princess Chloe said:

Sorry, toodles, didn't see your comment, I was too distracted by some of the other posts.... but we're right... if those two can score a nice place to live, for free it seems (then again, maybe not for free), then why doesn't Shirley rate? One heck of a slap in the face that wifey #10 gets a remodel and you know they left it unlocked so that Shirley would see it.

Does anyone know if Jessica's cousin Hannah (seen in the original two hour docu-movie) remained out? I was under the impression (from other sources) that she went back.

No worries. :)

[Princess Chloe]

3 hours ago, WireWrap said:

See below.

I think that they are dependent on others lending them apartments to use and maybe no one had an open apartment available when the mom was ready to leave The Order. Also, the FLDS sisters apartment was nowhere near the FLDS compound and might not work for someone fleeing The Order which operates in that area. IMO, it would be better for those escaping The Order to go to a different city, better yet, a different state altogether.

 

I doubt that the apartments are totally free, maybe for a few weeks at first, then I am sure that these women start getting Government assistance, including a housing allotment, which will help pay rent.

Utah has housing assistance for people without kids that only take a few weeks/months to get? That's progressive. Most states, including mine, only have housing assistance for childless people that take two years (waiting list) to get anywhere with. Magic wand, perhaps!

[WireWrap]

32 minutes ago, Princess Chloe said:

Utah has housing assistance for people without kids that only take a few weeks/months to get? That's progressive. Most states, including mine, only have housing assistance for childless people that take two years (waiting list) to get anywhere with. Magic wand, perhaps!

I don't know how long it takes but I think women fleeing cults like the FLDS get extra help, like women leaving DV situations do. There are a number of groups/organizations that are specifically set up to help women leave polygamist cults, kids or not and have funds to help pay for rent until their government benefits kick in be it weeks or months later.  

[maraleia]

Does anyone have any idea how many episode there are this season? I can't find that info anywhere online.

[Princess Chloe]

36 minutes ago, maraleia said:

Does anyone have any idea how many episode there are this season? I can't find that info anywhere online.

10 episodes. Next week (the tenth ep) will be the season finale.

[KellyAnn3]

13 hours ago, Princess Chloe said:

Is it just me, or does anyone else find it strange that the sisters can find a nice house for Ariel and Vanna (the two that left the FLDS and still believe in the Jeffs as leaders-SMH) but can't find Shannel and Kollene's  mom a place to live?

In the original special, Shanell took Shirley to look at a house but she was definitely not ready to leave at that point. She kept talking about wanting vaulted ceilings, which was obviously just an excuse to not act at the time. I remember this because I was so frustrated with her. After the episode where she was kicked out of her Kingston hovel, I have a better understanding of how warped, under-educated, and traumatized she is as a person.

[maraleia]

I would love it if this show/the four women (Amanda, Jessica, Shannell and Kollene) who are helping The Order and FLDS people escape actually bring down these two branches of the same cult.

They need to do the same thing for Scientologists.

[ethalfrida]

We have talked about the sexual abuse of the young girls in this cult. While I think it is disgusting, of course, do you know that they are basing their abuse on the Bible? Saying that if they are wrong then so is the Bible? That Mary, mother of Jesus, was 13 when Jesus was born. That stuns me and I had to look it up. First, there was the Qu'Ran reference saying Mary was around 1500 years old. But I discounted that information because it was actually a hate thrown at the Islamic scripture. But they did say Mary was 12 to 14 years old. After a couple more I found one that referenced her at an unkown age. This is what I'm generally accepting because, my father who was a Baptist minister, never referenced her age either. 

[maraleia]

Also the way we think about a person's age has changed over the years and also life-expectancy which was way shorter even 300 years ago much less 2,000 plus years ago.

Many religious fanatics cherry-pick parts of their scriptures in order to foment their brand of worship.

[ethalfrida]

You are so right especially about cherry picking parts to use for their sick agendas.

[Princess Chloe]

Random Thoughts  (bare with my ramblings)

I don't know why they bothered to hide Mary Ann's face when she was on... all you have to do is google her and she comes up. I have a hard time sitting still with the "insider" shadowing... it sounded like Jessica in the beginning, which doesn't help credibility (as for not being "staged"). I do believe someone must be helping them though. From the comments the "insider"has made it sounds like a marriageable age female, which is again confusing... since they treat women like dirt, how would a woman get the kind of info she gets?

And sometimes I wonder during the "escapes" how do people who are "deprived"get so much stuff? Of course it could depend of the status of their mother... it would make sense for Amanda/Kami/Rachel/Eskel to have a car and a significant amount of clothing and personal sundries if their mother has a higher rank than it would for Shannell and Kollene and their mother's status (my God that house).

I am not going to lie... I do think some of it is (or has been) staged..... I think Yolanda was out for sometime before they filmed this. Her FB page was up and considerably active when her episode came out.

How on earth can they be so arrogant as to think that the problems with incest don't apply to them.... it's not arrogance, it's downright stupidity.

Ok. Done rambling. For now.

[beesknees]

I like this show a lot but it is a whole lot of running into houses, moving boxes, huffing and puffing and "Oh gosh, they're following us !!!  Move, move, move - Go, go, go" as the truck races off toward the interstate.  Rinse and repeat.  

I wish TPTB would temper all that with focusing on other angles of escaping polygamy (i.e. -following up on the women and children trying to integrate into society and the struggles/challenges they face).  What happens after the initial escape can be just as interesting as the escape process itself.  Not mixing things up a bit will bore viewers IMHO.

When I watch the individual episodes I already know what's going to happen.

I also agree with posters up thread that when warranted the 3 girls? who are trying to bust out the FLDS people (forgot their names) should blend in better (i.e. - wear prairie dresses, try to alter their hairstyles, etc.) when executing the escapes.  I know why they don't - because drama.

Naive person here but why are the girls (again the crew that is helping the others escape) why are they so scared of the "God Squad"?  I realize the verbal harassment by the GS may scare the current FLDS members and be uncomfortable but as long as the GS dudes aren't pulling out guns and shooting folks, who gives a crap if the God Squad's screaming, hovering, verbally threatening, intimidating, and shouting about at the top of their lungs?  As long as they're not physically restraining folks who gives a rip?

Case in point - when the girls were trying to help their mother leave (one of Daniel's wives, the one with the really crappy apartment who outed the squalor she was forced to endure) - when cult leader Daniel found out, what did he do?  A big bag of nothing.

Daniel phoned police and told them unwanted people (his daughter and the other girls) were trespassing on his property (completely untrue as the lease was in the mother's name and she and Daniel weren't legally married).  Daniel sat in his car on the perimeter of the property and never approached anyone.  He just sat inside the car.  Big deal.  The only thing Daniel was was annoying.  He wielded zero power when push came to shove.

The cops came, asked the mother about the lease issue, she said Daniel's name was on "nada", she paid the rent.  The police said "Okay, cool.  Carry on" and left.  

I also hate the stupid "confidential insider" bits where they have that shadowed female in the hoodie speaking with her voice altered.  I cannot understand one thing that chick says and it hurts my ears to boot.  Get a different voice alteration device for the show.

Awhile back I saw one of these FLDS escape shows on Dr. Phil? and the woman whom the episode was based on wrote a book called "Stay Sweet" (by Michelle Dominguez-Green).  Eye-opening and shed a lot of light on what the women go through.  

Edited September 9, 2016 by beesknees

[Evil Queen]

I have looked at this show more as it takes pieces of helping some escape and it ends up being more of a reenactment. I do agree though that the "figure" has sounded like the one sister. I don't doubt someone is passing off info but the show had to create a way to put it on there. Remember when the show is filmed and aired, it is many months between it all so it doesn't surprise me that they might have a SM acct used for whatever period of time. She comes off though still a little like she is adjusting to things outside what she had known. I agree though that it would be nice to seem more of how it is for the ones that get out. I know the first season it seemed it was a mix of that. While we have seen a little it hasn't been as much. I do wish they would show a little more on the "lost boys". Is not just about these girls/women but those boys that are kicked out like that and end up on the streets. 

I finally caught up on the show. That last one was really sad. That is one I would like to know if they got him the help he needs or if they were not able to still because of the caretaker and being watched by those around him. 

[Princess Chloe]

On 9/9/2016 at 6:57 AM, beesknees said:

Naive person here but why are the girls (again the crew that is helping the others escape) why are they so scared of the "God Squad"?  I realize the verbal harassment by the GS may scare the current FLDS members and be uncomfortable but as long as the GS dudes aren't pulling out guns and shooting folks, who gives a crap if the God Squad's screaming, hovering, verbally threatening, intimidating, and shouting about at the top of their lungs?  As long as they're not physically restraining folks who gives a rip?

My guess is that the presence of the FLDS God Squad can intimidate those they are trying to rescue... I don't think that Yolanda or the two FLDS girls Vanna and Ariel would've stood much of a chance with a couple of truck loads of goon squads trying to stop them. Also, not FLDS but Order related... Fred would not ask for help with Shain or one of his minions hanging over him.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Princess Chloe
misspell

[beesknees]

Gosh.  I don't know what to say - I feel so badly.  Just watched the latest episode where the girls tried to rescue "The Insider".  :(   No, just no.  Made me feel so badly when one of the girls (don't know names) had a panic attack in the car while they were on the way to rescuing "The Insider".   Awww, broke my heart.  Just to hear the recollections of having to work in a BEEF SLAUGHTER HOUSE at 8-9 yrs. old (Did I hear that correctly?  I think I had an out-of-body experience at that point) and then to hear about the sexual abuse/beating flashbacks.  No.  Just no.

Why the fuck hasn't the government cracked down on this shit?  C'mon.  The government has known how polygamist groups launder/hide money.  Don't even start with me on the sexual abuse.  I know this show can be pretty fake? at times?  or maybe manufactured drama is the phrase I want to use.  However the abuse is real.  Women and children are neglected and abused.  I hope (if nothing else) that this franchise sheds light on these problems and the government can intervene in some way.  Too naive?  Too hopeful am I?

[Princess Chloe]

10 hours ago, beesknees said:

Why the fuck hasn't the government cracked down on this shit?  C'mon.  The government has known how polygamist groups launder/hide money.  Don't even start with me on the sexual abuse.  I know this show can be pretty fake? at times?  or maybe manufactured drama is the phrase I want to use.  However the abuse is real.  Women and children are neglected and abused.  I hope (if nothing else) that this franchise sheds light on these problems and the government can intervene in some way.

The answer is the root of your question....MONEY. The gov't does not have the resources to investigate and without someone giving them, legally, the information they need there is no case. It needs to be able to stand up in court. Like with Jessica and Andrea paying for the attorney their mother had when they took her to court or had to pay her room and board.... they have to prove the money was taken from them and received by the attorney and by mamma. You know there isn't going to be a paper trail for that even with what is notated on the pay stubs. What they need to do is get their paystubs together and file for lost wages if they were being paid less then minimum wage and they can show fraudulent child labor. If they are so hell bent on a take down, why don't they do that?

I do believe that some of the show is manufactured. I believe they have taken some real life events and re enacted them a few times. But I do think Jessica is too harsh in her reaction to the Insider changing her mind, due to fear. Of all people to understand what it is like to fear for your family's well being and safety, it should be her.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Princess Chloe
Grammar

[StaceyNotStacie]

I don't get this whole "Insider" person. The fact that they never showed him/her makes me wonder if it's set up for the show. While some of the rescues seem real, the Insider segments seem staged. The disguising of the voice and the hoodie makes me wonder if it's just one of the girls on the outside. 

[kassa]

21 hours ago, Princess Chloe said:

But I do think Jessica is too harsh in her reaction to the Insider changing her mind, due to fear. Of all people to understand what it is like to fear for your family's well being and safety, it should be her.

Remember, though, she was returning to the scene of her sexual abuse for the first time.  She pushed through her panic attack and kept going because she wanted to help the person... who then made all of that agony purposeless.

At one point I thought one of the relatives of the girls they were rescuing sounded just like the Insider, but then I concluded that they all have similar accents and they're all related anyway, so who knows.  They go to great lengths to say "they" instead of he/she.  It may well be that there is no insider and they're just working off old info/videos to make a story (and possibly make the Order think there IS an insider, or that the insider that is already out is still there).  Someone who got out and brought stuff with them to turn on the group may not want credit for it because of family members left behind who would suffer, as the girls in this episode pointed out -- they could fight the legal fees charged against their accounts, except they'd just take the money away from their mom.  

Hopefully as more people come out, they'll bring stuff with them. They didn't really follow up on what happened after the raid... surely they will get them on racketeering, and that's MAJOR.  Despite child abuse and welfare fraud investigations, the IRS is the agency most likely to do any lasting damage to this criminal way of life. 

[maraleia]

No matter how much this show is staged for the cameras I'm glad it's on the air if for no other reason than to bring down at least the Kingston's.

[WireWrap]

6 hours ago, maraleia said:

No matter how much this show is staged for the cameras I'm glad it's on the air if for no other reason than to bring down at least the Kingston's.

I am glad as well but I think they need to do some follow up on those they help get out. This way, those on the inside considering leaving can see that it can be done and it will help more to leave The Order and the FLDS.

The raid shown on this episode happened in Feb this year, here is an article about it. Read what happened with other warrants pertaining to the place, WRE, we saw them try to rescuer the "insider" at. About 1/2 way down the article/report.  http://www.sltrib.com/home/3523346-155/federal-agents-across-utah-raid-offices

[beesknees]

On 9/12/2016 at 7:25 PM, Princess Chloe said:

The answer is the root of your question....MONEY. The gov't does not have the resources to investigate and without someone giving them, legally, the information they need there is no case. It needs to be able to stand up in court. Like with Jessica and Andrea paying for the attorney their mother had when they took her to court or had to pay her room and board.... they have to prove the money was taken from them and received by the attorney and by mamma. You know there isn't going to be a paper trail for that even with what is notated on the pay stubs. What they need to do is get their paystubs together and file for lost wages if they were being paid less then minimum wage and they can show fraudulent child labor. If they are so hell bent on a take down, why don't they do that?

I do believe that some of the show is manufactured. I believe they have taken some real life events and re enacted them a few times. But I do think Jessica is too harsh in her reaction to the Insider changing her mind, due to fear. Of all people to understand what it is like to fear for your family's well being and safety, it should be her.

Man, I just thought of one of the old episodes where the girls were trying to bust out a half-sister? who had $60,000 + sitting in the Order Bank (the girl won a settlement in a car accident?) and the bank didn't want to give her her money and close out the savings account.  

Now I get that the bank couldn't produce 60K in such a short amount of time but trust me, effing cult or not, they play with my money?   Oh Hell No, I'd be shouting shit from the highest roof tops, getting advice from a real attorney and threatening to expose/sue that fake ass bank (and all the ugly FLDS money secrets) along with it.  I'd go to the local news station.

You wanna open a can of worms of epic proportion? Uh, okay.  (I'm fantasizing here of course!).  I wish there was a group of highly skilled attorneys who would devote/volunteer some time to educate FLDS/Order members on things they can do when trying to escape/leave the cult.  I wish there were attorneys who would volunteer time to represent the women and children in court and sue the Kingstons right back since the Order is always having their team of attorneys go on the attack.

Edited September 14, 2016 by beesknees

[Princess Chloe]

Have any of you heard anything about that Christine Katas who is occasionally mentioned on the show as an "advocate". She also took in Priscilla in season 1? I have located some eyebrow raising blogs about her, from a sex trafficking victim advocate:

 http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/06/escaping-polygamy.html

part two: http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/08/escaping-polygamy-drama-part-ii.html

Why don't we see these people get any kind of counseling?

And note, Priscilla altered her name from Priscilla Tucker to Tucker-Katas.

[Court]

I would also like to see more follow up. I wonder if the girls don't want it for various reasons. Many of them are still living in fear.

[Court]

43 minutes ago, Princess Chloe said:

Have any of you heard anything about that Christine Katas who is occasionally mentioned on the show as an "advocate". She also took in Priscilla in season 1? I have located some eyebrow raising blogs about her, from a sex trafficking victim advocate:

 http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/06/escaping-polygamy.html

part two: http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/08/escaping-polygamy-drama-part-ii.html

Why don't we see these people get any kind of counseling?

And note, Priscilla altered her name from Priscilla Tucker to Tucker-Katas.

We did see one of the boys go to a counselor. Most therapists won't allow their sessions to be filmed as that would violate privacy.

Also, these people have been taught their entire lives that doctors aren't necessary. Leaving doesn't immediately change things that have been ingrained in you since birth.

Getting far away seems obvious to us but I'm betting most of these girls wouldn't go to Canada. They want to stay near to help their siblings and mom in small ways. Or to have some contact with them.

That blog seems really self-centered. The author just keeps congratulating herself on what shed done and seems mad/jealous she wasn't involved. 

Also, only one person was a minor.(I think.) She ended up returning to the order. Everyone else has been 18 and older.

Edited September 14, 2016 by Court

[WireWrap]

25 minutes ago, Princess Chloe said:

Have any of you heard anything about that Christine Katas who is occasionally mentioned on the show as an "advocate". She also took in Priscilla in season 1? I have located some eyebrow raising blogs about her, from a sex trafficking victim advocate:

 http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/06/escaping-polygamy.html

part two: http://traffickingandprostitutionservices.blogspot.com/2016/08/escaping-polygamy-drama-part-ii.html

Why don't we see these people get any kind of counseling?

And note, Priscilla altered her name from Priscilla Tucker to Tucker-Katas.

In some ways, this reads as sour grapes that she wasn't included. Does she really think she understands polygamy and ramifications of leaving it because I'm not so sure. I don't think she even realizes that there are polygamy sects in Canada that are in contact with/part of the groups back here in the states.  

[Evil Queen]

On 9/13/2016 at 10:02 PM, Court said:

I would also like to see more follow up. I wonder if the girls don't want it for various reasons. Many of them are still living in fear.

I would imagine that maybe some are afraid so they want to keep a low profile or could have moved either to far or just moved and didn't tell them where so they could just really start anew. We have seen a few girls and some you can tell are still so lost. Especially those FLDS ones that don't believe Jeffs is as horrible as he really is. Those sisters are pretty conflicted on it and you can tell would rather not talk abut him in a bad way. Hopefully one day they will learn to handle and see the truth on him and that whole way of how they had been living. What I wouldn't mind is if maybe all the ones that do not want to go back on camera, and that they know what is going on with those, if the sisters could just give updates themselves to let us know how some of these girls/boys are doing now. It could show new escapees that they can move on from things and it will be ok. 

On 9/13/2016 at 10:19 PM, Court said:

We did see one of the boys go to a counselor. Most therapists won't allow their sessions to be filmed as that would violate privacy.

Also, these people have been taught their entire lives that doctors aren't necessary. Leaving doesn't immediately change things that have been ingrained in you since birth.

Getting far away seems obvious to us but I'm betting most of these girls wouldn't go to Canada. They want to stay near to help their siblings and mom in small ways. Or to have some contact with them.

That blog seems really self-centered. The author just keeps congratulating herself on what shed done and seems mad/jealous she wasn't involved. 

Also, only one person was a minor.(I think.) She ended up returning to the order. Everyone else has been 18 and older.

On 9/13/2016 at 10:21 PM, WireWrap said:

In some ways, this reads as sour grapes that she wasn't included. Does she really think she understands polygamy and ramifications of leaving it because I'm not so sure. I don't think she even realizes that there are polygamy sects in Canada that are in contact with/part of the groups back here in the states.  

 

Agree this person came off like sour grapes and pretty selfish. I couldn't even read it all with off she kept going off in another direction and throwing a million links in it as well. I do not think she understand polygamy either and how that is leaving. As we have seen many seem to not want to go to far because of the family there still. They may change their minds later and want to but it doesn't seem they would be willing to go not only out of the state but let alone another country. We had heard how FLDS and other groups have sects up in Canada and places like Mexico as well. Since it was said how the one sister was going to law school, that it was going to be another way for them to help fight against the polygamist groups in whatever way they can for themselves and those they help get out. They tried to get the underage sister out because of how another one had killed herself but she had gone back and I don't remember if it was on her own choice or because there was no way to keep them from taking her back (which I think it was this). These girls doing the show seem to know the groups and such to help those getting out. In the first season there was one they did show go out to get her G.E.D. and they were helping her do so. They did the girl Priscilla into Nevada but that doesn't mean she was going to be shoved into a life of being a hooker. She was seventeen at the time but the fact was she wasn't shoved into some house for whores to be. Last I thought they said or maybe that I read, was that Priscilla was going to a Paul Mitchell School. If she enjoys that I think its awesome for her to be able to find that. My friend's daughter went to one and has been working in that field for a couple years now. She was even able to do hair for a few magazines as well. So hopefully if this is what Priscilla enjoys and wants to do that she will do well. I also want to add to this that I could swear they took Priscilla to a home that has taken in girls like this before so she knew what she was getting into and how to be towards someone coming out of a polygamist home. IMO that is what you would want. Not to ship them out of the country to who knows where. So where was the "disaster" that this lady claimed it was by sending Priscilla there? 

Agree about the therapy, no REAL therapy would be on ANY reality tv show. These girls/boys are going to be getting real help and not tv shrink help which ends up a joke. I wouldn't be surprised if it takes awhile to get them to go to one because as Court said they are taught things such as not needing doctors for many things and how the people not living as they do are so horrible and evil. Its something I can imagine they have to learn to trust in many cases so they can get to the point of getting that kind of help for themselves. I think its Kollene that is more active on SM and stuff than the others but she will point people to many ways they can help when asked about how to do so. 

As for that one lady, not only what was said above on her but the fact is when I started trying to read the first link, I just got an off feeling. Like something wasn't right there. I can't point my finger on it exactly but I question this lady and everything she is saying at this time. Plus why would you admit to sending kids to another country like that because the healthcare would be free. I can't imagine its as simple as that in getting healthcare either when from another country. These kids don't have passports or ways to get them and I know she claims to "underground" type of thing but how? More so in this world we live in today with most countries keep watch on their borders. Some of what was said by her would piss me off if I lived over there too. Its certain things that even in our own country here many of us do not like seeing happen as well. I am not sure if it was all explained how these things are done but I couldn't read it all with how it was coming off. She seemed more to want to push herself and toot her own horn. Its one thing to offer your services but if you are turned down you move on. She came off bitter that no one wanted her as part of the show or anything else. Plus IF she knows people in Nevada that do work with girls to help why would it mean they run in the same circle as Christine? I use that part in the article as an example because she puts a link up comparing the show as she claims its all fake to North Korea faking groups for espionage reasons. This person is so mental IMO. I didn't see this woman use her own name anywhere so how are we suppose to believe anything she is saying and that she works with whatever groups as well. 

[renatae]

On 8/15/2016 at 11:43 AM, sigmaforce86 said:

She tried but I don't think she really wanted to leave.  She kept saying how she just has to work harder at her "faults", not just the reading and the music, she also said not being able to get up at 5am was on the list of things that made her unworthy.  I can't even come up with words strong enough to ask what kind of men these are and what kind of religion it is that could convince a women that God hates her because she can't get up at some arbitrary time.

This is so incredibly sad. Even more so, in the legal arena, it's amazing how some of these men get away with fathering children, not allowing anyone to use their names except the first wives and their children, all along with the absolute control and absolute lack of provision for their subsequent wives and their children. The daughter who convinced her mother not to leave was so contemptuous of her it was shocking, all because her father told her she was special in some way and her mother was nothing. I believe the mother was the same one you mention who felt everything was all her fault and she needed to improve just about everything about herself because her husband thought she was worthless.