Greenleaf - General Discussion

[Joimiaroxeu]

Lol, Lady Mae "dropped" her phone. Horizontally and at least 90MPH.

"A break from diversity?" What an odd way to put it, though I got his point.

Heh, Kerissa will have to sell a whole lot of plasma to pay for a $300K house. Or even come up with a down payment.

I thought Gigi had paid off the back taxes with her inheritance from her bio-dad? Phil's intel on the Greenleaf family isn't current or thorough it seems.

Dante seems kind of short to me to be a pro basketball player. Wonder who he's slated for, Sofia or Zora?

What was that onsie thing Sofia was wearing at the end? In public.😐

Charity doesn't realize she's getting used. Phil seems to have discerned quickly which Greenleaf was the weakest and could be easiest culled from the herd.

Quote

Grace's a better sibling than I am, that's all I'll say. 

Yeah, Charity is a lot. And Jacob keeps inflicting his overblown sense of entitlement on everyone he can.

[Scarlett45]

On 9/8/2019 at 12:38 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

Dang, Lynn Whitfield. Look at you, girl! Lady Mae was killing that lingerie. And the Bishop.

But as far as this making the Bishop court her stuff is concerned, again I ask: Does having an adultery baby equal having an affair with your wife's s ister? Seems to me the courting should be the other way around.

Well I don’t think so. 1. Bishop cheated first (repeatedly), with her SISTER. 2. Lady Mae didn’t INTEND to have an adultery baby, she was pissed at Bishop for cheating and had sex with Lionel to get back at him, which resulted in conceiving Grace, but by all indications she and Bishop were still together and sexually active at that time, so she probably hoped the pregnancy was his- she didn’t know for sure either way. 

I say they are even after all the shit he’s put her through. 

[TVForever]

Good Heavens,

What have the writers done to Charity? She's become a horrible person!

I don't know if I'm all that mad at Jacob. It really does seem like his heart is in the right place. He's actually grown since the first season, when he was a bit more of the selfish, spoiled Prince of the family. 

Still feeling my way with this new revelation of Grace's son. Of course, she was going to end up bringing him to Nashville. With everything that's plagued the Greenleafs, a secret son seems positively tame by comparison. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wonder why they decided to age Gigi by giving her drama with an adult son? Did they run out of steam with Sophia?

Hmm, I see a three-way in Zora's future. Or at least an attempted one. (Also, I didn't realize until this episode that Dante is a high school kid. Why are they treating him like he's a Heisman Trophy winner about to get drafted into the NFL?)

Edited September 18, 2019 by Joimiaroxeu

[Neurochick]

I missed a few.  Why did Charity almost get arrested for kidnaping when her husband abandoned her?

[Scarlett45]

On 9/20/2019 at 8:29 PM, Neurochick said:

I missed a few.  Why did Charity almost get arrested for kidnaping when her husband abandoned her?

Didn’t she take the baby outside of her custody time and was driving drunk with him in the car? That’s what I thought happened. 

[mrsbagnet]

1 hour ago, Scarlett45 said:

Didn’t she take the baby outside of her custody time and was driving drunk with him in the car? That’s what I thought happened.

Yes, that's right. IIRC, she left the state with the baby, and they weren't sure where she was.

[Joimiaroxeu]

Something definitely seemed shady from the jump about that real estate broker Kerissa roped Jacob into dealing with. His cufflinks were a bit much, plus his quip about doing business on the Sabbath was odd. He was testing them.

Good casting with AJ. He and the actress who plays Sophia look like they could be actual siblings. Meanwhile, is the actress who plays Sophia leaving the show?

Oh, the cufflinks are some kind of cult or mob thing with Bob. Bob is like a church version of the Godfather, except with more direct sacrilege.

Right, in the South a White church would merge with a Black one. Not hardly. There's a reason churches are still some of the most legally and culturally segregated institutions in this country.

Rochester. Heh, I would've said Stepin Fetchit. Phil is a trip.

Geez, Kerissa is such a prideful fool. She should've told Jacob that deal was looking problematic. It's no telling what Bob and the H&H syndicate are up to but they specifically targeted Jacob and Kerissa for that land.

Noah is moving back to Memphis. Gigi's excrement is about to hit the air circulation device.

[Risha17]

I know a lot of people don't like Mae and think Kerissa was right in telling her off (and she was somewhat), but honestly, their showdown just made hate Kerissa even more. She's really a spoiled brat with low capacity for empathy. She has a lot of nerve saying that Mae's parenting style for Faith's suicide (and this is the second time, Kerissa inappropriately brought up Faith). I bet if anyone point how her and Jacob's relationship and parenting laid the foundation for Zora to be a such a spoiled brat and seek affection in an abusive prick like Isaiah, Kerissa would be pissed. And again, Kerissa brings up and shits on Grace in situation that has nothing to do with her. What on earth is Kerissa's deal with Grace? Is she transferring her issues with her mother unto Grace and sees Grace as competition? Is it jealousy? Did Grace do something to Kerissa in the past? Either way, I'm really done with Kerissa and enjoyed Mae slapping the mess out of her as well as her learning she has to stay at the Greenleaf estate. I hope Grace is the next one who puts her in check. 

As for AJ, I fluctuate between feeling sorry for him and disliking him because he's so disrespectful and I keep getting the feeling he's not really Grace's son, but a plant or just a fake just wanting that Greenleaf money. 

[Scarlett45]

What happened to AJ’s parents? He got Grace’s name from the adoption agency, so I assume he was adopted as an infant. Where are they? How’d he end up in the system? It is true so many young people are left with nothing when they age out of the system, but how’d he get there?

If his story is true that he was arrested for burglary because he was stealing things to eat, no one in his family would be willing to help him? Of course not everyone has family (biological or legal) but I assume we are going to get some explanation as to why he’s called Grace of all people.  

The actor playing AJ is good. He’s a got a vulnerability, but it’s clear he hasn’t had an easy life. 

[tearsandhysteria]

On 10/4/2019 at 9:53 AM, Risha17 said:

I know a lot of people don't like Mae and think Kerissa was right in telling her off (and she was somewhat), but honestly, their showdown just made hate Kerissa even more. She's really a spoiled brat with low capacity for empathy. She has a lot of nerve saying that Mae's parenting style for Faith's suicide (and this is the second time, Kerissa inappropriately brought up Faith). I bet if anyone point how her and Jacob's relationship and parenting laid the foundation for Zora to be a such a spoiled brat and seek affection in an abusive prick like Isaiah, Kerissa would be pissed. And again, Kerissa brings up and shits on Grace in situation that has nothing to do with her. What on earth is Kerissa's deal with Grace? Is she transferring her issues with her mother unto Grace and sees Grace as competition? Is it jealousy? Did Grace do something to Kerissa in the past? Either way, I'm really done with Kerissa and enjoyed Mae slapping the mess out of her as well as her learning she has to stay at the Greenleaf estate. I hope Grace is the next one who puts her in check. 

As for AJ, I fluctuate between feeling sorry for him and disliking him because he's so disrespectful and I keep getting the feeling he's not really Grace's son, but a plant or just a fake just wanting that Greenleaf money. 

I have really grown to hate Kerissa too. I won't say I'm a Mae fan at all. I think she plays favorites with her children and I hate that.  I think she will get on her high horse in a minute all the while having secrets and confessions she needs to handle. But, all I can say about that slap is she should have done it harder. You don't come in my house and try to divide me and my husband EVER, much less over some petty stuff such as furniture that you have no right to to begin with. She'd have been outdoors for that alone. 

Kerissa dislikes grace because Bishop wanted Grace preaching at Calvary instead of Jacob. She's very jealous and always has been. 

And to be hiding about who is purchasing the land is ridiculous.  Jacob cheated on you and played you for a fool for how long? Man, If I wanted to sell the land and get out your mama's house that's just what would be happening. There would be no lying by omission or trickery involved. He owed her that at the least of it and that's coming from someone that hates her. 

She'd have to get out of my house before she messed around and "fell" down the stairs if I were Mae though. Seriously. 

And I agree with all you said about A.J. She did the boy wrong and that's undeniable.  But he makes it hard for me to feel sorry for him consistently. He has some ways about him but I guess he should. But even still, he weighs on my patience.  

Edited October 6, 2019 by andreamf15

[Scarlett45]

I’m not surprised Kerrissa hooked up with that real estate guy, but I’m kind of over her complaining about Jacob being a bad husband. Jacob hasn’t changed. You’ve been singing the same song since season 1, either accept it and get your needs met else where (like the real estate guy) or LEAVE, at this point the whining isn’t attractive. Now that Zora isn’t in danger from her boyfriend any more, all of the sympathy I had for Kerrissa is dying out. 

Charity will live to regret betraying her family, (which I don’t agree with) but someone (maybe Bishop) needs to see this woman his hurting and desperate for some emotional attention. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Meh, not sure the messy bun look works for Lady Mae.

Why would they now decide to include Charity in on family secrets? They know she's loopy.

Charity is awful. But, that was not a secret Gigi should've been trying to keep. Now that AJ is an adult it was just a matter of time.

WTH did Kerissa call herself trying to do? She had no real cards to play in that land deal and just ended up looking foolish. I like the way she handled the move Fernando made on her though. But he's probably not going to let it go and it'll turn into a scandal where H&H will make it look like he bought her "personal services."

"Where would you go?" Oh no Jacob didn't! So he's checking up on Tasha Skanks and she's taking up with the H&H guy. What a sad marriage.

Yikes, AJ may be a convicted criminal but he realized he's no match for Lady Mae.

Ugh, Charity is worse than awful. She's like the Nova of Greenleaf except with 100 fewer IQ points.

[tearsandhysteria]

Charity is a pathetic little worm. I used to feel sorry for her but she's so gleeful about her shady business. It's sickening. It would be bad enough if she was betraying her family just out of ambition. But to do it also to land a man, that's just so trifling. Talking about she'll want a hug afterwards. Is it that hard for you to find someone, Boo? Someone please make her a profile on match.com already. 

Kerissa needs to go on and leave Jacob. She should have filed for divorce and had them split the land sale money then use the second check/hush money towards getting her own place. But honestly, they both deserve each other. I do think the cheating indiscretion will come back to haunt her. I'm kinda looking forward to Jacob finding out though since he thinks he's the only one that can find some new tail. 

A.J. should have just answer yes or no. I can't stand folks that will answer with everything but what you specifically ask them. They don't know you and you have a record period. Say no, and if they don't believe you then that's on them. But he was acting crazy shady. At the least of it, he was being childish. Yes, Mae came on strong but he has been acting suspect about money and threats and deserves a bit of scrutiny. And if he doesn't want to be questioned and doesn't care about anyone else's feelings about him, great. Stay out my house and I won't worry about if you steal or don't long as it isn't from me. 

[Jeopardy15]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

Ugh, Charity is worse than awful. She's like the Nova of Greenleaf except with 100 fewer IQ points.

OMG!!! She is acting so stupid and trusting this man she doesn’t even know. 

[TVForever]

I've given up trying to figure out whether Kerissa or Charity is worse- they're both particularly awful and getting worse.

Listen, Kerissa, when a man starts asking about beneficiaries to your family's amazing property, PLEASE know that this isn't going anywhere good. 

And Charity? I get it. Your romantic partners have given you an awful time, and your family hasn't always been the most supportive, but your anger at and jealousy of your family have you willingly selling them out to that snake in the grass just because he's handsome and straight? 

Ladies, close your legs and open your eyes!

[Risha17]

31 minutes ago, TVForever said:

I've given up trying to figure out whether Kerissa or Charity is worse- they're both particularly awful and getting worse.

I would shove both of them into an active volcano. They're both equally awful. 

I normally avoid doing armchair psychological analyses for fictional characters and while I immensely enjoy Greenleaf and appreciate its themes, it's not a super deep show. That said, Charity's character has me thinking that she has Histrionic Personality Disorder. Her behavior reflects most of the classic symptoms:

• Self-centeredness, feeling uncomfortable when not the center of attention
• Constantly seeking reassurance or approval
• Inappropriately seductive appearance or behavior
• Rapidly shifting emotional states that appear shallow to others
• Overly concerned with physical appearance, and using physical appearance to draw attention to self
• Opinions are easily influenced by other people, but difficult to back up with details
• Excessive dramatics with exaggerated displays of emotion
• Tendency to believe that relationships are more intimate than they actually are
• Is highly suggestible (easily influenced by others)

Kerissa, on the other hand, clearly is just incredibly jealous and vindictive. And the nerve of her to say "Who do you think you are?" to Grace. Brilliant case of acting on Kim Hawthorne's part because you can just see Kerissa, sick as she is, couldn't help herself and gave in (again) to her 'jealousy, pettiness, and vindictiveness and I definitely wanted to jump into the screen and punch her lights out. That said I'm over Grace constantly letting all these folks disrespect her and she does nothing but stares at them. I get that the point of the show is that Grace has grace (ha) to withstand a lot, but it's getting annoying and frustrating now. 

And I thought Kerissa was smarter than this. You would think as cynical and (supposedly) wizened  as she is, she would try to hide her affair a lot better and  be able to tell that Fernando is using and manipulating her and know better than to divulge all of her issues and secrets to someone she knows is in cahoots with H&H. But maybe she doesn't care anymore and just cares about hurting the Greenleafs, which makes her stupider than I thought. Whether she likes it or not, she is still a part of that family, so when this scandal breaks out, she, along with her kids, are going to be affected and hurt. And to top it off, she's the principal and founder of a top private school, which is going to amplify the consequences even more. I can see the news journalists in the Greenleaf world salivating if they catch a whiff of this mess. 

Ha, so AJ really did steal those pills. And once again, acts nasty to someone who's trying to help him. Looks like he's more of a Greenleaf than he thought. I'm so over feeling sorry for him (and I didn't even feel that much pity for him in the first place). 

Anyway, last but not least, Mae. Wow. She finally, finally, finally! told someone about her father and she got a chance for some healing and support. I thought she was telling Darleen's daughter about her father to manipulate her, but after seeing how wrecked she looked at the end, guess not. 

[tearsandhysteria]

Good grief. That was the ugliest shirt ever that Charity was wearing. Running around acting out and dressed like a joke. She is really losing it. And that sermon she was giving in the mirror about pride... Lawdy! She needs to be on some pills. Seriously. She seems delusional about her standings. First, she thought she was going to hell for her schemes now she's preaching the gospel. 

The theme of this episode seems to be that lying just runs in that family.  I mean, even nonessential lies are thrown around for good measure.  I don't have to divulge or lie to one sibling about what I'm arguing about with a different one. "What y'all arguing about?" "Uh, the songs!" Like what? Don't worry about it would have been a sufficient enough answer. Y'all are grown, beyond grown. Man the eff up and stop lying about any and everything! 

And I'm sick of the sound of Sophie's voice. She always sounds like she's on the verge of tears. Ugh, drives me crazy with the whining.  And she's lying her butt off too but I know that's cause she doesn't feel she owes Grace complete honesty after all her lies. 

Kerissa has about all the sense of a crazy/ villain Lifetime character. She couldn't get the living room furniture now she's scheming wanting the entire house. Lol Why don't you have your new boyfriend buy you a couch and some tables or something if you can't afford furniture? Soon she'll have secret insurance policies out on Mae and Bishop.  

And when A.J. made that comment about Sophia being light skinned and pretty and him being a black man in America I was like nah, son. That boy is half a shade darker than Sophia. I get that he's still a black male, but don't throw shade about her being light when you're just as light. Was anyone suprised that after refusing to say he didn't steal the pills to anyone besides Grace that he stole the pills? I was so tickled. Everyone knew he took those pills! 

Edited October 16, 2019 by andreamf15

[Scarlett45]

1 hour ago, andreamf15 said:

And when A.J. made that comment about Sophia being light skinned and pretty and him being a black man in America I was like nah, son. That boy is half a shade darker than Sophia. I get that he's still a black male, but don't throw shade about her being light when you're just as light. Was anyone suprised that after refusing to say he didn't steal the pills to anyone besides Grace that he stole the pills? I was so tickled. Everyone knew he took those pills! 

I haven’t seen the episode but WHAT? AJ did not say such stupid shit to Sophia who’s been nothing but nice to him! I’m even madder now. And yeah AJ can talk about a lot but colorism isn’t one of them, again he’s half a shade darker than her with Eurocentric facial features- just stop. (And I say this a fatter less pretty version of HRH Meghan, Duchess of Sussex-a black woman who fully recognizes colorism is a huge problem in our community). But AJ no. 

[Scarlett45]

@TVForever I think Kerissa is worse and here’s why- I think if Charity got some therapy, worked on herself, and apologized to everyone she could come back from this. I also think everyone has emotionally neglected her for a LONG ASS TIME because she was “the good one”. Kerissa, outside of her very typical love for her kids had no redeeming qualities. She’s so hateful and jealous and spiteful, omg, always strolling into Lady Mae’s house acting like a bratty teen. Isn’t she 45 or something?!! Kerissa is awful. Period. Charity is acting awfully right now. 

[AsiagoSauce]

On 10/16/2019 at 9:49 AM, andreamf15 said:

And when A.J. made that comment about Sophia being light skinned and pretty and him being a black man in America I was like nah, son. That boy is half a shade darker than Sophia. I get that he's still a black male, but don't throw shade about her being light when you're just as light. Was anyone suprised that after refusing to say he didn't steal the pills to anyone besides Grace that he stole the pills? I was so tickled. Everyone knew he took those pills! 

I just laughed at that. If the writers wanted to discuss colorism on this show they should've hired a darker skinned man to play AJ. He looks more biracial than Sophia, who actually is!

[Kirkydee]

I totally glossed over the fact that AJ is about as light as Sophia.  However it would be pretty unbelievable to have a darker actor play AJ, since Noah exactly isnt dark himself.

I bet Marisol can write a book.  They all talk around her as if she's furniture. She knows more secrets than all Greenleafs combined.  

Who's worse, Charity or Kerissa? Wow!! You can't go wrong by picking either. But my vote is Kerissa.  Sometimes Charity shows SOME remorse, but Kerissa is simply enjoying herself. Plus Kerissa has more to lose and she is on Lady Mae permanent shit list

[Scarlett45]

Finally watched the episode. I do want Lady Mae to heal from losing Faith, and guilt over Mac’s crimes, but I don’t think she needs her name on the scholarship fund. If people are hurt by it, I understand. It’s not Mae’s fault what Mac did, but she did have a duty to believe her own daughter. Given the entire history behind it, maybe rename it after Faith, to honor her. 

[OoogleEyes]

These people are HORRIBLE. 

I'm having trouble liking any of them

Edited October 23, 2019 by OoogleEyes

[PsychoDrone]

I can't say it enough, how come Jacob and Kerissa don't have any money?  They've been living in that mansion rent-free, not paying any bills, figured were well paid (Kerissa is admin of private school, Jacob was pastor at Calvary), and they can't afford a house?!?!  I know it's been like this since season one, but come on.  They should be sitting on a pile of money.

Also, it's ridiculous seeing all those adults in that house.  The only one that wanted to leave was Grace?  And, she moved back and that's with all the problems she had with her family.

Kerissa is way obvious with her infidelity.  Guess she doesn't recognize that she is duplicating Jacob's behavior.  Every time he questions her, her anger is too over the top.  Game recognizes game, and Jacob should see it since I'm sure he acted EXACTLY like she is acting now.

Truer words were never spoken about Demar when Bishop called him stupid to Charity.  Once Demar usefulness is done, he will be out.  I guess he got a consolation prize by hooking up with the H&H daughter.

The show has NO idea what to do with Sofia.  Is she in school, is she at the Greenleaf estate?  Must be nice to be able to blow money on flights as needed.  Just write her off already.  Then we don't have to listen to her incessant whining anymore.

Charity about Demar, "He's chaste."  Seriously?!?!  Is that a requirement?  Doesn't concern about that go out the window once you've been married, had a kid, and hooked up with a record producer?  Give me a break.  So, the show wants us to believe they haven't hooked up?  Yeah, right.  Of course, she could be lying so never mind.

Edited October 24, 2019 by PsychoDrone

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Charity about Demar, "He's chaste."  Seriously?!?!  Is that a requirement?  Doesn't concern about that go out the window once you've been married, had a kid, and hooked up with a record producer?  Give me a break.  So, the show wants us to believe they haven't hooked up?  Yeah, right.  Of course, she could be lying so never mind.

I can believe they've never had sex because he doesn't really seem to be that into her. It looks to me like he's just using her to get dirt on the Greenleaf gang so he can give it to his boss. And as far as being chaste is concerned, if anyone is lying I'd definitely put my money on him.

I've lost a lot of interest in this show this season. Seems like so many characters are a lot nastier than they were before and it's off-putting to me.

[tearsandhysteria]

When Mae said that Bishop disobeyed her, I hollered. Lmao! She swears she is everybody's mama. Disobeyed and forbidden?? Honey, everyone in your house except the maid has been showing out for years now. 

And Sophia knows she is wrong for dating that boy. I get that Nikki isn't her friend but she's your cousin's friend. That's messy. And when Zora called her a ho and then said was glad Sophia was going back to school and Sophia said she wasn't going back, I immediately said out loud, but you're still a ho! But nah, she's just trifling for messing with him and he is going to do her in. And as always, I'm sick of her teary voice. I wish they would let her character be happy so I could stop listening to her whiny whimpering.  

And for Charity to be so mad at Grace she sure won't tell her to her face. If you hate her so, look Grace dead in her face and tell her I'm fixing to burn your ish down to ashes and own it. I thought that was the whole point of revenge. Or maybe I've just been doing it wrong...

I was suprised that Kerissa admitted that she thought since Jacob was the only son that they'd get the house all to themselves. Girl, bye. I guess she wants the house and all the furniture that would come with it. Go tell your boyfriend to get you a house. Jacob wants to stay with his mama. 

Edited October 30, 2019 by andreamf15

[tearsandhysteria]

On 10/24/2019 at 7:49 AM, PsychoDrone said:

The show has NO idea what to do with Sofia. Just write her off already.  Then we don't have to listen to her incessant whining anymore.

Amen! 

Edited October 30, 2019 by andreamf15

[Joimiaroxeu]

That H&H woman Judee needs to eat a sandwich or ten. She almost looks sickly to me.

I'm still confused about this Dante kid. Isn't he still in high school? How is he opening a bar?

Errbody. How's that for a multisyllabic word, Connie?

Charity tells Gigi she shouldn't have lied while she's lying right to Gigi's face. Girl, bye.

Kerissa is a greedy fool. Selling out Jacob's share of the estate is an even dumber move than selling that land they owned. And when her affair with that H&H guy gets exposed she'll be done in the Greenleaf family.

Sophia trying to jump bad with Dante's ex. What a joke. She is punching above her weight class with that one.

Phil is smooth. He handled Charity's tantrum like a pro. She is so blind and gullible.

[Risha17]

Jesus H. Christ, now I'm really getting annoyed with the writing for Grace. I can't decide if the writers think it's makes for better drama to have her so meek, accommodating and spitless around people who disrespect her, or they (the writers) just want her to live up to her name. There's no way in hell a real person with backbone would allow Kerissa to ask for money, let alone step into their space and sit on their furniture like she was their bestie and not a bitter and hating sister-in-law who makes it her hobby to talk shit about them and disrespects their family.

Speaking of Kerissa, this episode really cements how stupid she is, both on the common sense front and regarding emotions and relationships. She really actually thought she and Jacob were going to get the whole estate? Really? And she wants to sell Jacob's part of the estate? Man, I'm beginning to wonder if she grew up poor which might explain why she's making all of these dumb financial decisions. But then again, there are people who were born rich and make braindead moves regarding money. I'm not going to bring up RL examples. 😉 And she thinks a slap is comparable to and warrants robbing her in-laws? And she wonders why no one in the Greenleaf clan (including her own husband and daughter) particularly likes her. 

And really James? You're really going to let Connie know that you know about the bribe? 🙄Don't get me wrong, I love James, but now it's clear where Charity and Jacob get their naivete and stupidity from. If it wasn't for Mae and Grace, the whole family would be in deeper dodo than they actually are.

And Charity looking kinda sad after Grace confronted her just made me think of the immortal words of the great Marie Laveau from AHS: Coven: "Too late for tears, damage is done. " If you're pursuing "revenge" and all about being petty Charity, then effing own up to it.  

"You really like me, don't you?" Ugh, Charity! 🙄 If you have to ask a man that type of question and he acts like he barely tolerates you most of the time, then newsflash: He doesn't love you! Nor does he like you! I'm not going to feel one bit sorry for her when Phil eventually kicks her to the curb, she doesn't end up as pastor, and she's on the outs with her family and it finally sinks into her thick skull she really threw her entire life into the garbage pit for nothing. 

As for Sophia, her drama doesn't bother me. 🤷🏽‍♀️ Personally, least she's not running off to shack up with an abusive boyfriend, stealing money from the church, popping off at anybody and everybody who tries to support her, etc. Also, she doesn't owe Nikki anything. Nikki is Zora's "friend", hasn't been nice to Sophia from jump, and Sophia, generally being astute and more mature than Zora, can see Nikki is a just a leech and an opportunist. Also, she and Dante did break up. It would be one thing if Dante and Nikki were still dating and Sophia decided to pursue him. But, IMO, it's a completely different thing when they broke up and Nikki supposedly claims she's over him.

Finally, quite frankly, Zora has no right to call Sophia a hoe and say has no friends since Sophia only dated two guys thus far and the only "friend" we've seen Zora hang around this season is Nikki and last season she was all hung up on Isaiah and didn't seem to make time to hang with other kids.  And Zora has no moral highground either to judge Sophia regarding to Dante business since she 1) was trying to get with him too, and 2) started dating Isaiah knowing Sophia liked him first. So on the Shitty Cousin/Friend Scale, Zora still has Sophia beat. 

[AsiagoSauce]

I. Can't. With. This. Family. Let's discuss them in bite-sized chunks, shall we?

First: Kerissa, Kerissa, Kerissa. How freaking entitled can she be? How can she prop her lips to ask anything of Mae after bringing up Faith. Clearly, that slap didn't knock some sense into her. Also, she doth protest too much. It's a good thing that Jacob is a moron, because he should definitely recognize the same behavior he showed with Kerissa being reflected back to him. Sucking up to Grace after constantly berating and judging her makes me want to rip my hair out. I just can't with this woman. And saying all this really sucks because I really used to like her character. You know, back when she was sympathetic and smart. Now, she's a manipulative, vindictive, foolish, two-timing tramp who needs to go.

Second: Charity should do the whole family and herself some good and just leave. Leave the city, leave the state, heck, even leave the country. Just get away and find herself. How can she call herself Christian after telling a bald-faced lie to her now only sister's face? She's a cliche wrapped within a cliche and the show has done nothing to add onto that. Any character on any show is bound to be a cliche, but it's a show writer's job to add to that and make them a fleshed out character. This has not been done for Charity.

Third: The actress who plays Sophia needs to change her speaking voice or something because her constant cracking, whiney tone needs to just stop. Now. Her crying leaves a lot to be desired, too. The whole back and forth with Hampton was stupid from the get go. I mean, it's so obvious that she wasn't going to just leave the show till then, but the show's way of adding something to her character was severely lacking. Her current storyline with Dante could prove to be interesting, you know, the good girl's descent into "badness". But she's just so...boring. I get it, her character's slowly becoming corrupted over the course of the series, but they screwed up by made her too perfect to begin with. The straight-A, God-fearing, beautiful, kind-hearted, optimistic, mini-preacher in training ...blah, blah, blah. I'm sick of it. I'm sick of her.

I thought that something interesting would've happened after the whole I'm-atheist-because-God-cursed-my-ovaries plot point. I waited and waited and guess what? Nothing happened. And now, with her little situationship with Dante, I find her annoying in an all new way. Really, Sophia? You can't find literally any other boy to fool around with? I get that he was convenient, but arguing with his ex is just stupid. Especially when said ex looks like she can hold her own in a fight. Little Miss Private School needs to stay in her lane and take her teenage rebellion elsewhere.

Her acting as a bad girl is somehow even worse than her acting as a good girl. It literally consists crossed arms and her nose in the air. Not only is her character annoying, but the actress playing just can't seem to breath life into the role. 

Fourth: Grace is nothing like she started in the first season. She was ballsy, determined and had a freaking spine. She used to be a freaking spitfire. And now, she might as well be a jellyfish now. I can see being kind to a fault, but after being tricked by Charity on multiple occasions, she should have learned better She should've chucked Kerissa out of her room and told her to kick rocks. She's is way too trusting to someone who's done nothing but act shady, self-serving and entitled. I just want her to leave and go back to Phoenix because Calvary is a lost cause at this point. Cut your losses and bounce.

Fifth: Mae. I've actually come to really like Mae. Sure, she has a lot of issues, but she's definitely developed for the good these past seasons. She's had the best speeches and I love the care and word choice that the writers put into her dialogue. She has her moments of annoyingness, but I feel like the writers are actually putting effort into her character. Unlike some of the others on this list.

Sixth: Zora is another character who's shown character growth in this show. I admit, I've had a soft spot for her since her first appearance and I've hated the way the show went out of its way to paint her with all sorts of negative traits. It's clear that in the show, she's meant to be a foil to Sophia's good girl cliche, but in my opinion, she's more than that. She was never really a bad girl, she was just a teenager. A teenager who does a lot of stupid things only to mature into a better person because of it. I think that's why I like her character, she's been fleshed out in a realistic enough way that the transitions in her character doesn't give you whiplash. 

Seventh/Eighth: Jacob and Bishop have kind of taken a back seat this season and as such have basic characterization. I appreciate their initiative to better themselves, though. It's a lot better than some of the other characters.

[bichonblitz]

Kerissa has Clymidia! This show cracks me up.

Who was the mysterious dude talking to Grace by the grave? I'm confused. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Charity is straight stupid trash. I'm glad Lady Mae read her. (For all the good it did though. 😑)

Oy, Kerissa! Well, at least it's not a baby.

I'm sorta impressed Kerissa was honest with Jacob about the STD. She could've tried a switcheroo and accused him of giving it to her.

I just don't get this Dante guy. Is he in college? Was that house his? He looks like a high school kid to me.

Phil is a stone player. That engagement ring was probably 10 dollars' worth of cubic zirconia and dumbass Charity just gave it up for a piece of plastic.

And Kerissa's about to own them all. Unless Jacob kills her first.

And Phil is about to get dead. Now it's just a matter of which one of the Greenleafs will do it. I'm thinking it should be AJ as long as he's going to prison anyway. 🙄

So was that guy who walked up to Gigi at the end the real AJ or an angel? Meanwhile, maybe next time Gigi will insist on a DNA test before she starts claiming some random person as her child.

[TomGirl]

Can ANYONE hazard a guess as to what that ending was all about???

[PsychoDrone]

The writing on this show is not good.  What is with all the ambiguity?  Why did the show not tell the audience of the vote?  Yes, it made it seem it went H&H's way, but did it or did Bob pull a rabbit out of his hat since he pretty much runs it anyway?  Another one is did AJ really steal the drugs?  He still hasn't definitively said he did it and, just like Grace's lawyer brother said, he could have just turned himself in and called Grace from jail.  Also, not a big one, but did Sofia hook up with Dante?  Have to keep audience guessing about that one.  Finally, was that the real AJ or an angel (SERIOUSLY?!?!) that approached Grace at Faith's grave?  This show subverts the saying of "Show, don't tell" by not showing or telling anything.  Better to just leave it ambiguous, so to keep "its options open".  It makes the show irritating to watch and for poor storytelling.

I've said it before, WHY are all these adults living in the same house?!?  Charity shouldn't be going against the family, but then we don't really know because vote wasn't revealed, since she still lives at home.  Kerissa and Jacob should have moved out long ago or stayed gone once out.  Jacob's living in "Mommy's house", but Kerissa living there with him doesn't make her look any better.  For a moment thought I was watching Tyler Perry with Kerissa getting Chlymydia since he's good for inflicting pain on women in his stories.

This season has been really uneven.  Pretty much everything happened in last episode to get to the cliffhanger.  And, it only happened because Grace stepped down.  AJ showing up at the church was so contrived.  Why would he go there?  Why would he show up like that (standing in the aisle)?  Easily could have slid in unnoticed or saw Grace after service in her office or at the home.  DRAMA!!!  Cliffhanger couldn't have happened without Grace out of the way.

Edited November 7, 2019 by PsychoDrone

[marceline]

Yeeeah, it think this will be my last season of Greenleaf. Nothing made sense and honestly, I really don't care about these characters anymore.

[Scarlett45]

What happened this season? For real? Was that just the break or the season finale? The writing was all over the place, and they had no idea what to do with Zora after she got away from Isaiah, Sophia could’ve been interesting with her questioning her faith but no. This secret son plot came out of no where, we didn’t see Noah again!

Lady Mae & Bishop remarrying in two seconds- why divorce then????

Goodness. 

[Kirkydee]

According to IMDB it appears this is a break for season 4. I agree with everyone about the sloppy ending.  Very ambiguous about the vote.  And Bob forcing Rochesters hand on being his son-in-law?  And he's actually gonna marry to get in good with the Whitmore family??

I guess the big second half story will be

1. What evidence does Kerissa have in the Bishop?

2. Who was the AJ lookalike at the end? Could he and the actual AJ be in cahoots to embarrass Grace?

3. Will Charity still be a damn fool?

And for others confused about the basketball player- he is a pro ball player.  The team hired Jacob as some of mentor/spiritual adviser for him. Yeah he looks young, but today most rookies start off at 19.

I think the show will tie the second half up, but that end was unfulfilling

[UNOSEZ]

On 4/8/2017 at 2:51 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I think Lady Mae probably had sex with the visiting pastor. People may feel guilty by emotional affairs but they aren't usually so jumpy unless they crossed the line. 

I do think Kevin is bi-sexual, and given a host of reasons he probably never fully explored that. It seems that he is close to his Mom, and she probably saw that he had gotten "too close" to certain guys when he was younger, and she may have encouraged him to date women exclusively. I can't speak from experience but it may be harder for someone in Kevin's position to explore all sides of their sexuality- if he was a 5 on the Kinsey scale with no attraction to women at all, it may have been easier to say "screw it i cannot hide who I am religion and culture be damned", but if growing up he did have genuine attraction to both guys and girls, I could see him pushing down his attraction to men and just not dealing with it, not wanting to mess up his life. 

I think one day he and Charity can be good friends but he did lie to her and you can only "pretend" for so long. He needs to figure out for himself if he can be fulfilled being in a monogamous relationship with a woman, (or anyone) without tying charity down. 

Yes I just started binging and am only on season 2...  So mad late.. But if Kev is bisexual... Then it really seems like charity is ending the relationship because she doesn't want to try.. Or the "shame" of losing her man to another man is something she can't deal with... Because she seemed ready to work at it when she thought he was cheating with women... Kev didn't cheat.. He told her what he was feeling.. He went to get "help" ( nonsense in my book)  but it showed he was committed to trying.. Seems genuinely interested in being with her physically.. Is jealous that that this jabari guy is all over her... And she's done  nothing.. But shut him down and flirt with jabari... 

[Scarlett45]

On 12/2/2019 at 4:32 PM, UNOSEZ said:

Yes I just started binging and am only on season 2...  So mad late.. But if Kev is bisexual... Then it really seems like charity is ending the relationship because she doesn't want to try.. Or the "shame" of losing her man to another man is something she can't deal with... Because she seemed ready to work at it when she thought he was cheating with women... Kev didn't cheat.. He told her what he was feeling.. He went to get "help" ( nonsense in my book)  but it showed he was committed to trying.. Seems genuinely interested in being with her physically.. Is jealous that that this jabari guy is all over her... And she's done  nothing.. But shut him down and flirt with jabari... 

I don’t think Kevin knows what he wants right now, but keep watching. 
 

Season 5 starts today, you know I’ll be there as I’m a glutton for punishment. 

[Scarlett45]

Nothing about the season 5 premiere? This show had such promise and went off the rails. 

[mrsbagnet]

2 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Nothing about the season 5 premiere? This show had such promise and went off the rails. 

I tried to watch season 4 on Netflix and I couldn't make it through the third episode. I gave up.

Edited June 27, 2020 by mrsbagnet

[Joimiaroxeu]

Meh, I don't know about Lady Mae comparing her loss of face to Christ's suffering. She has no idea how arrogant she is, to the point IMO of bordering on being sacrilegious.

Sophia looks awfully thin. Hope the actress is okay.

Charity, you made your traitor bed and now you get to lie in it--alone. Silly fool.

So do I understand correctly that the kid Grace thought was her son actually stole her real--now dead--son's identity? Yeah, she should've gotten a DNA test before she went down the rabbit hole with AJ.

Vanilla, White Jesus, and snow. Charity brings the trash talk! Too little, too late, Char.

Wait, what? Jacob has an outside child? Did we know about this before now?

Sophia was way too understanding about her boyfriend comforting his ex. I suspect she's either getting played or the ex is pregnant.

Ugh, Phil is a solid POS. He doesn't love Charity, he's probably just trying to see if he can keep her in his back pocket while he's married to the boss' daughter.

Loved Lady Mae's wedding blouse.

OMG, AJ. He could've just left if he couldn't face Grace and her family with the guilt. But wow, that other guy literally died for AJ's sins.

[Scarlett45]

On 6/30/2020 at 12:10 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

So do I understand correctly that the kid Grace thought was her son actually stole her real--now dead--son's identity? Yeah, she should've gotten a DNA test before she went down the rabbit hole with AJ.

I was thinking that but was it proven?

[TVForever]

Well, Grace has become a downright beyotch, hasn't she? Noah did not deserve one bit of the attitude she was giving him over the AJ situation. Yes, maybe he was jumping the gun with the "I want us to be a family" talk, but he is still coming to grips with info that Grace has had for 20 years (or however old AJ is). He didn't leave her, Grace left him (and everyone); so why she coming at him like he did something so awful? I forgot exactly what his words were that set her off, but I remember thinking he wasn't wrong.

 

[Joimiaroxeu]

I'm amazed AJ survived. Guess the show is determined to stick with this story arc.

The Bishop pushing marriage so hard is starting to seem odd to me. Does he have a secret agenda?

I don't recall why Mavis gave her bar to Grace.

Lady Mae is right. Repurposing a bar into a church might be trying to do too much.

That Christian bish Judy is begging to be murdered. After the way she treats him like her personal Mandingo, I wouldn't be surprised if Phil did it himself.

Charity has to be one of the most un-selfaware people alive. She was so proud of that dumb poem.

So the Bishop's memory is declining. Uh oh. Lady Mae will probably mercy marry him now.

Of course Jacob lucked out and found that will in the fishing tackle box. Of course he did.

Hope Cal was using a burner phone when he snitched to Gigi.

Why would Sophia send nude pics to her sorta boyfriend knowing his ex was answering his phone? She didn't think that through.

Quote

Well, Grace has become a downright beyotch, hasn't she? Noah did not deserve one bit of the attitude she was giving him over the AJ situation.

I think Grace now suspects AJ is not her biological son. She's swimming in a big pool of AJ-related lies and secrets and it's probably weighing on her. It'll be telling whether or not she asks AJ for the truth if he ever agrees to see her again. So far it seemed to me like she was willing to maintain the fantasy, especially after her likely real son ended up dead.

[LetsStartTalking]

On 7/1/2020 at 2:46 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I was thinking that but was it proven?

OMG - I never even thought of this ! AJ is really not her son? The dead kid is ???? WOW - that's a nice twist.

I have watched this show from the beginning, and the season premiere was great. Looks like it can be a very good season if they stay on track. However, they need to rethink the character of Charity. She's becoming a cartoon character the way her story is written. They need to dial her back. Same with Lady Mae - she's on the verge of becoming unintentionally comical. 

[Scarlett45]

I plum forgot we had a new episode this week. 

[Scarlett45]

12 hours ago, TVForever said:

Well, Grace has become a downright beyotch, hasn't she? Noah did not deserve one bit of the attitude she was giving him over the AJ situation. Yes, maybe he was jumping the gun with the "I want us to be a family" talk, but he is still coming to grips with info that Grace has had for 20 years (or however old AJ is). He didn't leave her, Grace left him (and everyone); so why she coming at him like he did something so awful? I forgot exactly what his words were that set her off, but I remember thinking he wasn't wrong.

 

AJ I think is 23/24 now. Sophia just turned 18. Noah didn’t do anything wrong. And Charity didn’t deserve that treatment either. 
 

For the record Charity was wrong wrong wrong for selling out the church; but let’s not act like every other family member has not done wrong, and lied and trusted the wrong person. This woman DID lose a baby, and her marriage in the span of a year and no one seems to give a fuck. I swear Bishop might be the only person to be a tiny bit reflective and see why Charity did what she did. It’s like everyone else’s problems come before hers. She went to Grace trying to have empathy for her and Grace was a bitch. 

[LetsStartTalking]

This week's episode was disappointing. After two big episodes to kick off the season, this one was just 'meh'.

Also, I just read on this site that this is the last season of this great show - Oprah always envisioned this as a 'five season' series. However, there is a spin-off in the works...interesting!