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Greenleaf

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A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's run. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

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I binged watched this today. The acting is strong, but I don't find any character, at this point, endearing, and the stories so far are VERY predictable. The only thing I didn't predict was Aunt Oprah only getting a verbal warning about helping Gigi. I thought sure she'd end up beaten or dead, but I guess that would've been too gangster and over the top for this show. This isn't Empire. 

I am glad they're not overdoing the religious stuff. If they did I wouldn't be able to watch. It's an okay show but again very predictable and cliche. I'm still deciding as to whether I'll continue watching. 

Edited by Enero
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I binge watched as well.  It was better than expected, although it is cliched.  I'm still getting the characters straight with the exception of the heavy hitters, but are we to conclude that the husband of the daughter who sings, the one who wanted her to get pregnant is really gay?

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Oh yay a forum for this!  Yes, it's cliched as all get out, but I'm just so happy to see these people on a screen that I (probably for the first time) do not care. Thanks, Oprey (as my Grandma calls her). 

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13 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

I binge watched as well.  It was better than expected, although it is cliched.  I'm still getting the characters straight with the exception of the heavy hitters, but are we to conclude that the husband of the daughter who sings, the one who wanted her to get pregnant is really gay?

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13 hours ago, Happytobehere said:

I binge watched as well.  It was better than expected, although it is cliched.  I'm still getting the characters straight with the exception of the heavy hitters, but are we to conclude that the husband of the daughter who sings, the one who wanted her to get pregnant is really gay?

He's either gay or he's very much bi-curious. He really seems conflicted though as if he's not sure what to feel. I would say that he's probably had these feelings in the past but has never acted on them.

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There's a pastor whose last name is Skanks? Oh dear. How unfortunate for the women in that family.

I think Lynn Whitfield looks great. She might however want to ease up on whatever procedures she's been having done to her face. She's on the verge, IMO, of getting that too-pulled-back look.

Five grand? The Greenleafs (Greenleaves?) are ridiculously wealthy. Blackmail Guy could've asked for way more than a measly $5,000 for those scandalous  photos and videos. Wonder how long it'll take for him to realize it and come back for more?

So are we to believe that dog Jacob is actually in love with the sidepiece or is he just playing both women by telling them what they want to hear? Not that it matters because his wife Kerissa will never give up the Greenleaf social status and life of luxury.

Yeah, ditto comments upthread, this show is riddled with cliches but any good soap opera is because soap fans expect it. I think the key is to find fresh and rewarding ways of delivering those cliches within insulting the viewers' intelligence. Oprah seems to get that point, unlike the person responsible for THATHN and ILYIW (IMO, anyway).

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I don't think Jacob loves either woman.  They are there to service his ego.  After seeing the last two episodes, I feel more for the wife.  I think she loves her husband but has numb herself with nastiness to cope with his constant cheating.  Based on Jacob's comments to both ladies, I think he likes playing the role of victimized husband to Karrissa. If she decided she wanted out, Jacob would do everything in his power, including threatening to take the kids if it kept her on the leash.  He plans to ascend to the throne and he needs her.  

This is the it's episode where Lynn Whitfield came across as something other than a self-serving, self-absorbed, manipulating monster.   Keith David filled in quite nicely.  

I hope Gigi and her ex don't start messing around.

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I don't think Jacob loves either woman.  They are there to service his ego.  After seeing the last two episodes, I feel more for the wife.  I think she loves her husband but has numb herself with nastiness to cope with his constant cheating. 

I watched all four episodes already, on Demand. Can't wait to see episode five. 

I agree, he's a mess. I actually think he's using the therapy to help him communicate with the side piece. It seems like he was able to tell her that how he felt after that therapy session.  He and the wife both annoy me. I believe she loves him, the wife that is, but somewhere along the line she became way to into pushing him to increase his status in the church, for herself.  She seems to be in competition with the other female children of the family, Gigi and the younger sister based on that meeting/tea she was having with her mother in-law.

My question is, what does she want for herself? If she wants to do something other than be a mother and a preacher's wife then she should go for it, but don't do it on his coattails, it's making him feel used. I don't get the impression that he even knows truly what he wants professionally; it seems like his father was pushing him and he was quite unsure as to whether he wanted to take the job. It was the wife again, pushing him. It's alright to be your spouse's cheerleader but don't be pushy about it especially if they don't seem like they welcome the push.  He was looking for some space, the father called, offered him a job and he deserved the space to make his own decision. Not the father barking in one ear and the wife barking in the other. 

Then the scene with the sidepiece still made me roll my eyes, even though I think I get where he's coming from. I was like grow up, stop looking for someone to stroke your ego. She's your sidepiece, and she knows it. What? Does he want her to grab on to his ankles as he tries to leave, while he drags her to the door?  I bet that would stroke his sorry ego. She knows you're not leaving your wife so why act otherwise? 

Instead, he needs to try using the therapy to actually speak with his wife. Instead of telling your sidepiece that you feel like a piece of meat, try telling your wife that you feel like an object that she just moves around.   He's pathetic and so is his wife if the stay in a loveless marriage. At least the wife genuinely realized after dinner with that loving couple that, their marriage was in trouble.  

He needs to start speaking up for himself.  I guess that was what he was trying to do at the end where her told the wife that she didn't get to make all the decisions and that he, wasn't done with therapy. Except I don't think it had anything to do with staying in therapy to help his marriage.

Edited by represent
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 He plans to ascend to the throne and he needs her.  

What does Jacob do exactly - other than heading up the Deacon Board? 

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I agree with represent. I honestly don't think Jacob wants the Deacon board job at all. I'd be hard pressed to believe he wants any job in the church but as been stated it seems like it was expected of him to have a career within the church and as a result he may not have got the opportunity to figure out what he wanted for himself. 

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Yeah it's pretty bold to tell your gf you're probably never gonna leave your wife, and then expect her to tell you how much she loves you. Basically, I'd probably say F U weak man with the F-upped family. Ask your bitter little wife for affirmations selfish SOB. But that's me.

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Jacob strikes me as one of those people content to coast on his family name and past glories (football-related in his case). He's so bratty, it's hard to feel any sympathy for him.

Kerissa blowing up at the dinner table was priceless and oh so soapy.

Loved all the stuff with Deacon Connie. She's great.

Noah's fiancee (Isabel?) is so insecure about him and Gigi. I mean, with good reason but still.

Edited by Gillian Rosh
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I'm still really enjoying this show. It kinda feels old-fashioned soapy to me. There's nothing really campy about it a la THATHN. Just stories about family drama/business dynamics slowly building to an eventual climax. I'm already wondering what the season finale will look like.

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That dang Karessa always stealing the spotlight at the dinner table. If I were Charity I would have said I AM TALKING!!!!

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I feel so bad for Charity, being used by Kevin to cover up his homosexuality, and he had the nerve to push her to become pregnant knowing the truth (at the very least seriously suspecting the truth) about himself.  He is as much of a self-serving snake as Jacob. 

Good for Karissa, blow that piec of crap up.  Jacob loves no one but himself.  

Best line if the night (paraphrased): Jacob, "You're giving Grace my spot." Bishop, "You have no spot."  

Lady May (Mae) is a real scheming conniving witch. 

I felt so bad for the family with the sick little boy.  When the wife finally said she was ready to let Joshua go because he was suffering so much, I teared up.

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While I felt awful for Karessa when she realized that Jacob had gone back on his word about "side piece" ( not that it was ever really worth anything anyway), she lost me when she erupted in the middle of Charity's announcement. Then she really lost me when I realized that her teenaged daughter was at that table! She has no business visiting that kind of drama on the kids in that way.

Btw, I wonder why we didn't get a scene with the Bishop firing Alexa. Lots of drama potential there. Have we really seen the last of her?

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That dang Karessa always stealing the spotlight at the dinner table. 

I busted out laughing at this scene the minute she looked over at Charity and said something to the effect of "What was your news?"  Did she even say sorry before she said it?  Her face and attitude when she said it cracked me up. 

I guess that was better than taking the dinner knife and stabbing Jacob, because clearly she was inch away from going postal. I mean her daughter was at the dinner table and I think she blanked out. I think she was so enraged, exasperated that she forgot she was at the table. 

I don't know what Jacob is looking for, but yeah, I'm of the mind that he's stunted and lost.

Edited by represent
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I feel so bad for Charity, being used by Kevin to cover up his homosexuality, and he had the nerve to push her to become pregnant knowing the truth (at the very least seriously suspecting the truth) about himself.  He is as much of a self-serving snake as Jacob. 

I feel bad for her too. And what kind person of sits with their sleeping spouse/SO in their lap while they surf Grindr or Tinder? He's practically begging to get caught, and at a time when Charity's going to be trying deal with carrying twins. Is he trying to hurt her?

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Have we really seen the last of her?

The soapy way would be for her to return either with a baby on board or with an attorney about to file a sexual harassment lawsuit. Simply firing her probably wasn't the best way to handle it but I guess we'll see.

Edited by Joimiaroxeu
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My wife spotted Isobel, the "teach to the test" woman as being the "Horseman of death" on The Messangers.

They have put together a great cast!

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I for one loved the Bishop's sermon: Black deaths matter; black lives matter, black weddings matter, black breakfast, black lunch and black dinner matter.  Until the police stop seeing everyone as video game characters and see them as PEOPLE, we'll keep having police murders like the ones in Baton Rouge and Minnesota.

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11 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

I feel bad for her too. And what kind person of sits with their sleeping spouse/SO in their lap while they surf Grindr or Tinder? He's practically begging to get caught, and at a time when Charity's going to be trying deal with carrying twins. Is he trying to hurt her?

The soapy way would be for her to return either with a baby on board or with an attorney about to file a sexual harassment lawsuit. Simply firing her probably wasn't the best way to handle it but I guess we'll see.

She's got a case for sure! Maybe they paid her out. No way she leaves peacefully, and no way he'd just let her go. She'll be back!

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I'm re-watching the latest episode, "Meaningful Survival." The scene of May trying to persuade Deacon Connie to come back to the church is so good. Lynn Whitfield is amazing. I love when May says "I feel like Pharaoh." Ha!

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I watched the first episode because Keith David is in it.  I was disappointed until the church scene.  I hope he's in the show a lot more in the other episodes.  

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I am really enjoying this show. I think that it is very interesting, so far. Lynn Whitfield looks good (I liked that gray dress she wore last week). I am also enjoying Oprah’s role in this show.

I guess Karrisa and Jacob are okay now? Another man wanting to touch his wife, has made everything better between him and Kerissa. Hmmm… maybe so. Or maybe that is the start of them trying to repair their marriage.  Jacob seems pretty directionless. He hasn’t seemed like he really knew what he wanted in a woman/relationship prior tonight’s episode. And he definitely doesn’t seem like he knows what he wants to do for a career. I feel like he isn’t really interested in the church. I think that the Bishop was spot on when he says that Jacob doesn’t really know what he wants to do.

I am curious to know what exactly Lady Mae’s problem is with Grace. Charity seems really sweet and I am interested in seeing how her storyline with Kevin plays out. I am interested in seeing how the new choir director fits into their storyline as well. He seems like a nice guy.

Edited by Jx223
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Countdown til the new Choir Director figures out that the lady who is pregnant with twins husband is gay (I'm horrible at remembering names).  The choir director is always the first to know.......................

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17 hours ago, Jx223 said:

 

I am curious to know what exactly Lady Mae’s problem is with Grace. 

Grace knows the truth and would like to live it, Lady Mae does not. 

She probably stopped preaching out of guilt, although I don't think she has anything to feel guilty over. She tried to help her sister, and she too was a young girl herself I believe. 

Finally, she probably couldn't take the hypocrisy of it all, all her mother seems to care about is appearances instead of finding out what really happened to her daughter. 

Based on those tapes and flashbacks she was going in the right direction, but it's OK for Lady Mae to not talk about nor face what on earth could have gone wrong. She doesn't want her "house" to fall. 

Edited by represent
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On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 6:53 PM, represent said:

I busted out laughing at this scene the minute she looked over at Charity and said something to the effect of "What was your news?"  Did she even say sorry before she said it?  Her face and attitude when she said it cracked me up. 

I guess that was better than taking the dinner knife and stabbing Jacob, because clearly she was inch away from going postal. I mean her daughter was at the dinner table and I think she blanked out. I think she was so enraged, exasperated that she forgot she was at the table. 

I don't know what Jacob is looking for, but yeah, I'm of the mind that he's stunted and lost.

I cracked up at Karissa's daughter reaching for the phone and Jacob pulling it away from her. But yeah, she clearly wasn't thinking announcing her husband's affair in front of the entire family including her daughter not that it seemed her daughter was all that shocked or cared. 

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Just now, Arcadiasw said:

I cracked up at Karissa's daughter reaching for the phone and Jacob pulling it away from her. But yeah, she clearly wasn't thinking announcing her husband's affair in front of the entire family including her daughter not that it seemed her daughter was all that shocked or cared. 

Oh she did, I missed this. That little girl is a trip. I hope she doesn't plunge into addict territory with that drug use of hers. 

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1 hour ago, vmcd88 said:

Countdown til the new Choir Director figures out that the lady who is pregnant with twins husband is gay (I'm horrible at remembering names).  The choir director is always the first to know.......................

I thought the Choir Director was going to recognize Charity's husband Kevin(?) from the dating app he was on. 

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Lady Mae told James he’s been human before and he’s forgiven himself for his mistake. I wonder what missteps James made and if it was similar to what Jacob did when I saw the scenes between James and Mavis. James told her, “When I’m with you like this, maybe I missed my life” or something to that affect. I’m probably reading more into it than what’s there but was anything mentioned about James and Mavis in previous episodes? I deleted the older episodes on my DVR and I can’t recall.  

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On ‎7‎/‎7‎/‎2016 at 8:08 PM, Joimiaroxeu said:

I feel bad for her too. And what kind person of sits with their sleeping spouse/SO in their lap while they surf Grindr or Tinder? He's practically begging to get caught, and at a time when Charity's going to be trying deal with carrying twins. Is he trying to hurt her?

The soapy way would be for her to return either with a baby on board or with an attorney about to file a sexual harassment lawsuit. Simply firing her probably wasn't the best way to handle it but I guess we'll see.

After the dinner scene with Karissa, I'm amazed Charity isn't looking at Kevin suspiciously. He's always on that phone and she's never asked what he's doing. Then again, love can be blind and she probably thinks everything is fine since she and her husband get along a lot better than Jacob and Karissa. 

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 I had to crack up at all the little he's gay signals they inserted early on like let's cuddle and watch the bachelor and not really being in the mood and then on my karaoke bar! But I was surprised she was so Ok with gay choir director just assuming is church would be against it..

 

i too too found the "now I'm jealous and youre mine" surprising, more about ego than love but she seemed fine with it and I'm all for happy endings. Though I certainly hope the "side piece" sues for sexual harassment becuase she did in fact get fired because of that. Not cool.

 

gotta say the church looks like fun. I cannot even imagine being in an burch of 4000.

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I thought Charity knows Kevin is gay and is cool with it, being married to her best friend. Didn't she say something to him after a party along the lines of "you gays" or something?

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This is some freaking bull!!!!!! Just got to the part where Jacob and his wife were going to swing but he decided she belonged to him. Holding his hand out and she walked in! Come on!

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Can someone kick Jacob in the face (I volunteer!) What an entitled, double-standard having ass. He's blatantly cheating, but a man flirting with Karissa is beyond the pale? My hate for him continues to grow. I do wonder what Karissa was referencing when she said there was something Jacob can't forgive her for.

I'd like to see the Gigi vs. Uncle Mack story pick up a bit more.

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37 minutes ago, announcergirl said:

This is some freaking bull!!!!!! Just got to the part where Jacob and his wife were going to swing but he decided she belonged to him. Holding his hand out and she walked in! Come on!

I think Karissa is addicted to the power and prestige of being a Greenleaf. As strong as she comes off at times, I don’t think she holds herself in high esteem and took any crumbs of affection Jacob tossed her way. She’s clearly in denial and Jacob will not stay faithful for long. 

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2 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

I think Karissa is addicted to the power and prestige of being a Greenleaf. As strong as she comes off at times, I don’t think she holds herself in high esteem and took any crumbs of affection Jacob tossed her way. She’s clearly in denial and Jacob will not stay faithful for long. 

Based on their conversations, it's clear Jacob has been cheating on her for years.  Karissa knows Jacob will never be faithful, she just can't find it in herself to admit the truth and move forward based on this knowledge.

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I think the actress playing Stacy the abused wife is the same one who plays Q's sister on THATHN. She apparently puts on quite an accent for her other role.

Interesting that Lady Mae is willing to accept Jacob's flagrant infidelity, or at least be willfully blind to it. Yet she seems to hold Gigi to a much higher standard.

Sounds like Charity might be onto Kevin's Grindr-surfing habits with that somewhat pointed remark she made about dating apps while he was staring at his phone. How sad for her though if she does know that he's gay but is still willing to have children and a sham marriage with him. Meanwhile,  he's probably afraid the new choir director (or his partner) is going to sniff him right out of the closet.

Hypocrisy, thy name is Jacob. But Kerissa is certainly down for the cause, huh? I guess she's Greenleaf's version of a Kennedy wife.

I continue to be impressed by this show's production values.

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16 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

 

I'd like to see the Gigi vs. Uncle Mack story pick up a bit more.

You just know he's going after her daughter. Soaps!

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On July 14, 2016 at 4:45 PM, represent said:

Grace knows the truth and would like to live it, Lady Mae does not. 

I can't stand "Lady" Mae, what a class A witch.  If my I had a brother and he was abusing my daughter, my brother wouldn't exist anymore if you get my drift.

At first I thought Charity knew Kevin was gay, that they are best friends who got married because both of them wanted a family.  But now I don't think so.

Edited by Neurochick
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3 hours ago, Neurochick said:

I can't stand "Lady" Mae, what a class A witch.  If my I had a brother and he was abusing my daughter, my brother wouldn't exist anymore if you get my drift.

At first I thought Charity knew Kevin was gay, that they are best friends who got married because both of them wanted a family.  But now I don't think so.

I don't think she knows. What the show could have done, to be less predictable, is to make it so Kevin didn't know and to watch it start becoming apparent. 

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25 minutes ago, announcergirl said:

I don't think she knows. What the show could have done, to be less predictable, is to make it so Kevin didn't know and to watch it start becoming apparent. 

I agree.  In the first episode, she and Kevin were talking and she said, "we have something other couples don't have, we're friends."  I thought she knew he was gay and they were best friends, but now I don't think she knows.  

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