Season 18 Live Feed Discussion: Their Lives are Almost as Boring as Ours!

[me5671]

3 minutes ago, wings707 said:

Natalie might have enough fire in her to win HOH and nominate Victor!  Not a bad thing after all!  

That would be amazing.  Just imagine if stupid James hadn't told her to throw HoH this past week.  This game would be on a much better trajectory.

[J.D.]

3 minutes ago, CrazyDog said:

As frustrated as I can get with her lack of gaming, this makes me hope Natalie wins AFP even more. I don't know if it will happen, but having any of the women win, let alone Nat, will drive the men crazy. And I'm all for that!

I hope Natalie wins the entire game.

[AbsoluteShower]

I'd love to see Nat and James do the Amazing Race because a) they made us suffer through Jeff & Jordan AND Brenchel, so we're owed one and b) to see if James' strategy is to deliberately come in last in every leg - "Honestly I don't think it's in our best interest to win this leg...OW! why are you hitting me?!?!"

[Callaphera]

1 minute ago, sharkfan said:

I'd love to see Nat and James do the Amazing Race because a) they made us suffer through Jeff & Jordan AND Brenchel, so we're owed one and b) to see if James' strategy is to deliberately come in last in every leg - "Honestly I don't think it's in our best interest to win this leg...OW! why are you hitting me?!?!"

Brenchel on TAR was my most favourite thing ever. Mainly for the one task where they had to do the rafting through the rapids and they dumped. Rachel perched on a rock like a supermodel posing for a shot and Brendan getting swept away in the current and she turns around and yells, "BRENNAAAAAN! STAAAAAHP!" 

I laughed so hard I think I broke something. Mr. Callaphera and I still imitate that screech to this day.

While I would love to see Natalie and James on TAR, I doubt they would make it far from the starting line. I'd much rather they finish first and second in BB. Or at least one of them getting AFP and hopefully that one person being Natalie.

[AbsoluteShower]

Just now, Callaphera said:

Brenchel on TAR was my most favourite thing ever. Mainly for the one task where they had to do the rafting through the rapids and they dumped. Rachel perched on a rock like a supermodel posing for a shot and Brendan getting swept away in the current and she turns around and yells, "BRENNAAAAAN! STAAAAAHP!" 

I laughed so hard I think I broke something. Mr. Callaphera and I still imitate that screech to this day.

While I would love to see Natalie and James on TAR, I doubt they would make it far from the starting line. I'd much rather they finish first and second in BB. Or at least one of them getting AFP and hopefully that one person being Natalie.

I'm definitely throwing all my votes to Nat for AFP. I know she'll do a lot of good with the money rather than piss it all away.

[J.D.]

2 minutes ago, sharkfan said:

I'm definitely throwing all my votes to Nat for AFP. I know she'll do a lot of good with the money rather than piss it all away.

When does the voting start for that.  I'm Team Natalie as well.

Also, if someone wins the entire show, are they still eligible for AFP?

Edited August 4, 2016 by J.D.

[PaperTree]

26 minutes ago, wings707 said:

YES!  It will never be the right time for these spineless wonders!   Strike when it's hot and deal with the backlash!  No matter when you take someone out their will be consequences.  SO DEAL WITH IT!  

Better to ask for forgiveness than for permission.

[AbsoluteShower]

3 minutes ago, J.D. said:

When does the voting start for that.  I'm Team Natalie as well.

Also, if someone wins the entire show, are they still eligible for AFP?

I believe so, yes. All HGs are eligible for AFP so theoretically even someone like Glenn or Jozea could win it. If everybody watching BB starts taking crazy pills, that is...

[Mhl2016]

1 hour ago, J.D. said:

No man wants to take his one night stand home to meet his mother.  That's not an antiquated view.  That's something that'll never go away.  As for using a mobile app for sexual hook-ups: why would anybody, male or female,  have to resort to using an app?

 I really think you should speak for yourself.  I know plenty of men who feel just fine taking a woman home who they slept with on a first date.  Just because there will always be certain kinds of men with antiquated views doesn't mean those views aren't still antiquated.

[Kendall]

36 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I was thinking Paul/Corey and try to BD Paulie. Paulie will win veto if he plays so it might be better to keep him off the block and pray he doesn't get picked.

Not to mention, Paulie would try to throw the veto if Paul and Corey were up as to not have to reveal that he is okay with either one of them going home. The only way he'd try to win is if he suspected someone was trying to backdoor him.

[J.D.]

7 minutes ago, Mhl2016 said:

 I really think you should speak for yourself.  I know plenty of men who feel just fine taking a woman home who they slept with on a first date.  Just because there will always be certain kinds of men with antiquated views doesn't mean those views aren't still antiquated.

 So, let me see if I got this right: A guy goes out and has a one night stand, and it's perfectly common for him to take her home to meet his mom?  

[Mhl2016]

No, a one night stand is technically not to be repeated. But sex on a first date? That can definitely turn into more.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

41 minutes ago, me5671 said:

That would be amazing.  Just imagine if stupid James hadn't told her to throw HoH this past week.  This game would be on a much better trajectory.

Just imagine if Natalie had used her own brain 

[J.D.]

4 minutes ago, Mhl2016 said:

No, a one night stand is technically not to be repeated. But sex on a first date? That can definitely turn into more.

Thank you for proving the  point I was trying to make earlier.  (Even though I know that wasn't your intention).  

[mooses]

13 minutes ago, Deputy Deputy CoS said:

Just imagine if Natalie had used her own brain 

Yep. I'm a Natalie fan, but I wish she'd stop taking what James says in good faith and just trust herself. James likes having her there, but he just wants her there as along as possible until he has no excuse for the Boys to keep her. He doesn't take what she says into account - he'll listen, but he's not flexible.  Natalie knows he's "talking to" the guys, but I don't think she knows he's a good shield but probably not as good of an ally. He has her best interests in mind, until her interests interfere with his Boys' interests. I'm actually glad she's hanging with a disgruntled Michelle more because her instincts and fears (that there's a Boys Alliance, that Paulie runs the ship) might be validated.

I think Natalie thinks she's the Nicole to James' Corey, but she's not. Corey wants Nicole there a lot longer than the Boys with the exception of Paulie. They're always working as a team. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by mooses

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, wings707 said:

Is there anywhere I can live stream the live show tonight?  The site I used to use got shut down.  

I need one too.  PM me if you have one, don't post it, that will get it shut down! 

Another post from Heath, first the one saying "Day" and now this.  Ochos Rios anyone?

@HeathLuman
@HeathLuman Didn't mean to cause BB ripples! Just loving this Spanish Latte #BeachLife #SpreadLove

[Marie80]

14 minutes ago, J.D. said:

Thank you for proving the  point I was trying to make earlier.  (Even though I know that wasn't your intention).  

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't continue to beat a dead horse but here I go: How exactly did she prove your point? What she is saying is that a one night stand is by it's very definition ONE NIGHT. However what you have been referring to as a "one night stand" is very different, and allow me to refresh your memory:

3 hours ago, J.D. said:

Paulie might act like a total jerk to the nth degree, but still....you can't deny the fact that there ARE girls in this world that a guy would never take home to meet his parents, and those ARE the kind of girls a guy would have fun with and nothing more.   

So in fact you have proven MY point (over and over) that you are the type of man who puts women into convenient virgin/whore categories. Whores you have fun with, but the virgins are the one you take home to momma. And no they don't have to be literal virgins, it's figurative.

[Wings]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I need one too.  PM me if you have one, don't post it, that will get it shut down! 

Another post from Heath, first the one saying "Day" and now this.  Ochos Rios anyone?

@HeathLuman
@HeathLuman Didn't mean to cause BB ripples! Just loving this Spanish Latte #BeachLife #SpreadLove

Now I wish he would say what kind of challenge he designed for tonight.   

[peachmangosteen]

1 hour ago, J.D. said:

Also, if someone wins the entire show, are they still eligible for AFP?

No. Actually I'm pretty sure you're not eligible to win if you make F2. I think the voting starts after the last live show before the finale.

Those tweets from Heath do sound like hints about Day having the ticket, but I'm not sure I believe they'd tell the comp guy who has it so I don't know.

Edited August 5, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[Wings]

5 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

No. Actually I'm pretty sure you're not eligible to win if you make F2. I think the voting starts after the last live show before the finale.

Those tweets from Heath do sound like hints about Day having the ticket, but I'm not sure I believe they'd tell the comp guy who has it so I don't know.

The comp guy probably reads twitter and boards.  Everyone knows now and have for days.  

[RedheadZombie]

I feel sorry for Natalie regarding her care package.  She clearly thinks she got one first because she's a favorite - which she is.  But as she watches people get better and better packages, I'm afraid she's going to think people hate her. 

And it's kind of funny that she thinks Michelle is right behind her in order of popularity.  She reassured Michelle that she would be getting the second or third care package.

[Kendall]

More than any other showmance, James seems to want to know Natalie and date her after the show is over. So, I'm almost baffled as to why he's playing the way that he is. Does he really think that everyone is willing to dismiss what they see on the videos and read on Twitter and boards as just gameplay and not "you cost me $450K by subverting my every thought and you were in an alliance that you lied about and knew that they'd evict me at their earliest convenience just because I am a woman"?

How does one go on to trust someone that they have video proof that they can't trust? If anyone, I would think he'd be trying to lean more towards what Natalie is trying to do gamewise because he's trying to keep her after the game is over.

Not that I want this relationship to prosper outside the game because I think she's too young and too many other good things to get entangled with James, but how could possibly think he's going to talk his way out of trouble when they get out of the house?

[Wings]

+1 ^^^^^^ 

Edited August 5, 2016 by wings707

[mooses]

6 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

I feel sorry for Natalie regarding her care package.  She clearly thinks she got one first because she's a favorite - which she is.  But as she watches people get better and better packages, I'm afraid she's going to think people hate her. 

And it's kind of funny that she thinks Michelle is right behind her in order of popularity.  She reassured Michelle that she would be getting the second or third care package.

I'm going to barf if Paulie wins one. He was talking about how many Twitter/Instagram followers his brother has (he said an exact number, but I don't remember) and how his boys will hook him up. It reeked of Frankie levels of bragging about social media.

6 minutes ago, Kendall said:

More than any other showmance, James seems to want to know Natalie and date her after the show is over. So, I'm almost baffled as to why he's playing the way that he is. Does he really think that everyone is willing to dismiss what they see on the videos and read on Twitter and boards as just gameplay and not "you cost me $450K by subverting my every thought and you were in an alliance that you lied about and knew that they'd evict me at their earliest convenience just because I am a woman"?

How does one go on to trust someone that they have video proof that they can't trust? If anyone, I would think he'd be trying to lean more towards what Natalie is trying to do gamewise because he's trying to keep her after the game is over.

Not that I want this relationship to prosper outside the game because I think she's too young and too many other good things to get entangled with James, but how could possibly think he's going to talk his way out of trouble when they get out of the house?

She's told him that she doesn't want him to risk his game for her, and I believe her. I mean, the thing with James is that it's frustrating how inflexible he is within Big Brother. Both he and Paulie were coached by Derrick beforehand (Paulie says he knows for a fact James spoke to Derrick before coming in), and I really think they came in expecting to work together. The difference is that Paulie shifts and changes depending on what's good for him and to be in control, but James will trust his Bro Alliance will get him to the end and then hope for some competition wins (like last year) instead of putting himself in the best position on all sides.

Edited August 5, 2016 by mooses

[zibnchy]

55 minutes ago, J.D. said:

 So, let me see if I got this right: A guy goes out and has a one night stand, and it's perfectly common for him to take her home to meet his mom?  

Honey, I've had breakfast with Mom on more than one occasion post 1-night stand. Does that make me a Bad Girl? That you can't take home to mama? But I already met mama.

[Wings]

mooses. I know she said that but still had hope he would not do that!  He lied to her though.  He said he was not in an alliance, he was  alone but talked to the guys.  She is not going to like that.  I cannot remember what else at the moment but there were other small lies.  Lies and lies, though.  

[Kendall]

1 minute ago, mooses said:

She's told him that she doesn't want him to risk his game for her, and I believe her. I mean, the thing with James is that it's frustrating how inflexible he is within Big Brother. Both he and Paulie were coached by Derrick beforehand (Paulie says he knows for a fact James spoke to Derrick before coming in), and I really think they came in expecting to work together. The difference is that Paulie shifts and changes depending on what's good for him and to be in control, but James will trust his Bro Alliance will get him to the end and then hope for some competition wins (like last year) instead of putting himself in the best position on all sides.

Maybe she's the type that will be able to equate him "not risking his game" to purposely leading her astray and destroying her game, I don't know. I'd like to hope that she doesn't, but I have a thing against idiots.

I'd be okay with someone if we agreed to work together until we could no longer work together with the notice of "you will need to start doing whatever it is that you need to do". That I can understand, but she thinks that they are working together and that he's being as honest with her as she is with him and she's trying to do things for him to keep him clean in this game, like voting for DaVonne and letting her think it was James.

So, for her to see why James wouldn't vote for DaVonne and that he is willing to toss her to the wolves, among other things ... I would think she'd forget her "don't sacrifice your game for me" edict. But, we'll see.

[AndreaK1041]

15 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

Those tweets from Heath do sound like hints about Day having the ticket, but I'm not sure I believe they'd tell the comp guy who has it so I don't know.

I'm not sure if it's new, but I'm pretty sure his name is in the credits this year as a Producer, so he'd be in the know. God I just remember Zach desperately screaming his name so much in the backyard when he blew that zip line veto that it bled into the BBAD broadcast of fish... what a shit job, good he got a promotion. 

I'm not sure if he's the one who designed the Battle Back comps but I thought those were all  intelligently designed and overall impressive. 

[J.D.]

32 minutes ago, Marie80 said:

Ok, I promised myself I wouldn't continue to beat a dead horse but here I go: How exactly did she prove your point? What she is saying is that a one night stand is by it's very definition ONE NIGHT. However what you have been referring to as a "one night stand" is very different, and allow me to refresh your memory:

So in fact you have proven MY point (over and over) that you are the type of man who puts women into convenient virgin/whore categories. Whores you have fun with, but the virgins are the one you take home to momma. And no they don't have to be literal virgins, it's figurative.

She proved my point by saying the encounter could turn into something more, which begs the question, "Why would you want a one night stand,... or a TWO night stand or ANY night stand to turn into something more?"  I wasn't talking about potential love and relationships as she was eluding to by theorizing it could turn into something more.  I was talking about sex.  Just sex.  Earlier I said "A girl equates sex with love. To a guy, they are two completely separate entities."   After that comment there were a bunch of comments from various people trying to say that isn't true, .... people saying that women can stay detached.  In between all of that I made several posts clarifying that I have no problem with a healthy-minded woman enjoying sex for the sake of sex.  However, that part of my comments got lost in the shuffle. 

I don't appreciate you slandering me with the 'virgin/whore' assessment because I never said no such thing.  IF I had written, "If a bitch wants to fuck some dude she's not married to, then that bitch deserves to get 'clipped," -- then I could understand the venom.  But I didn't.

I really don't know why people are getting so upset over this.  If someone is a healthy-minded woman, who enjoys sex like a man does, then sobeit.  I have no problem with that.  I DO have a problem with women who SAY they're cool with casual sex, but then turn into territorial, jealous bunny boilers like Zakiyah.

[Umbelina]

27 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

No. Actually I'm pretty sure you're not eligible to win if you make F2. I think the voting starts after the last live show before the finale.

Those tweets from Heath do sound like hints about Day having the ticket, but I'm not sure I believe they'd tell the comp guy who has it so I don't know.

Heath is part of the team, he needs to know how many are competing too.  He would know.  I love Heath, I wish he was in charge of the whole show instead of Grodner.  He was really bummed we were blocked from that last endurance.  He actually loves Feedsters.

11 minutes ago, zibnchy said:

Honey, I've had breakfast with Mom on more than one occasion post 1-night stand. Does that make me a Bad Girl? That you can't take home to mama? But I already met mama.

Ditto, but then again, I didn't do what Z did on a live feed, knowing his family and mom were watching.  That was some fucked up shit, and frankly, I wouldn't expect anyone to respect me after that display. 

After sex though?  Mom's these days grew up after the sexual revolution, the pill, the sixties...they aren't Leave it To Beaver moms.

 

ETA

I understand what you are saying JD.  I also agree with your last post, but the earlier one wasn't worded well.  I've been there, done that, so hugs.

Edited August 5, 2016 by Umbelina

[Callaphera]

Also, the news keeps harping to me that millennials are more likely to live at home into their 30s because apparently it's too hard and expensive to move out, so I imagine there's a lot more moms meeting their son or daughter's one night stands than there used to be. 

Edited August 5, 2016 by Callaphera

[J.D.]

4 minutes ago, Callaphera said:

Also, the news keeps harping to me that millenials are more likely to live at home into their 30s because apparently it's too hard and expensive to move out, so I imagine there's a lot more moms meeting their son or daughter's one night stands than there used to be. 

Agreed.  But just for the record:  I do not live at home. 

My other half works nights.  That's why I'm often on here in the evening.  Beats hanging out in the clubs...which would be frowned upon.

Edited August 5, 2016 by J.D.

[Callaphera]

Just now, J.D. said:

Agreed.  But just for the record:  I do not live at home.

Neither do I but I qualify for millennial status apparently. I much prefer Gen Y. I apparently missed Gen X by a year or so. Damn it.

[Sayla Vee]

17 minutes ago, Kendall said:

More than any other showmance, James seems to want to know Natalie and date her after the show is over. So, I'm almost baffled as to why he's playing the way that he is. Does he really think that everyone is willing to dismiss what they see on the videos and read on Twitter and boards as just gameplay and not "you cost me $450K by subverting my every thought and you were in an alliance that you lied about and knew that they'd evict me at their earliest convenience just because I am a woman"?

 

I do think James would love it if Natalie wanted to date him post-show, but I think he believes she is way out of his league.  And she is, as well as too young for him.  First of all, she was Miss New York in the Miss Universe pageant a year or so ago, and has been trying to break into some form of entertainment since she's been in college.   I know she said she wants to make the Cowboys cheerleading squad, but I don't think that will be likely.  While young, she's a little long in the tooth for that, and based on her cheerleading moves on the show, she's not as agile as she probably once was.  I just don't see her settling for James, whether she resents his lies or not.  And doesn't James live elsewhere now?  I thought he had left Texas.

[Callaphera]

Just now, Sayla Vee said:

I do think James would love it if Natalie wanted to date him post-show, but I think he believes she is way out of his league.  And she is, as well as too young for him.  First of all, she was Miss New York in the Miss Universe pageant a year or so ago, and has been trying to break into some form of entertainment since she's been in college.   I know she said she wants to make the Cowboys cheerleading squad, but I don't think that will be likely.  While young, she's a little long in the tooth for that, and based on her cheerleading moves on the show, she's not as agile as she probably once was.  I just don't see her settling for James, whether she resents his lies or not.  And doesn't James live elsewhere now?  I thought he had left Texas.

I hate to be that person, but really? People still think like this? Age ain't nothin' but a number. I say this as the daughter of two people who were happily married for 26 years with a 21 year age difference between them until my dad passed away. I might be biased, though.

[AndreaK1041]

Did anyone find a functioning stream of the show? If so, please let me know!

[Sayla Vee]

1 minute ago, Callaphera said:

I hate to be that person, but really? People still think like this? Age ain't nothin' but a number. I say this as the daughter of two people who were happily married for 26 years with a 21 year age difference between them until my dad passed away. I might be biased, though.

I really wasn't thinking about the number.  I feel Natalie is young for her age.  My mother was 18 years younger than my father, but she was in the same place as my Dad which made it work.  I don't think Natalie is in the same place as James.

[mooses]

24 minutes ago, Kendall said:

Maybe she's the type that will be able to equate him "not risking his game" to purposely leading her astray and destroying her game, I don't know. I'd like to hope that she doesn't, but I have a thing against idiots.

I'd be okay with someone if we agreed to work together until we could no longer work together with the notice of "you will need to start doing whatever it is that you need to do". That I can understand, but she thinks that they are working together and that he's being as honest with her as she is with him and she's trying to do things for him to keep him clean in this game, like voting for DaVonne and letting her think it was James.

So, for her to see why James wouldn't vote for DaVonne and that he is willing to toss her to the wolves, among other things ... I would think she'd forget her "don't sacrifice your game for me" edict. But, we'll see.

I definitely agree. I think he's gone further than not risking his game.  She's said she doesn't want information she doesn't need, but he tells her nothing - and if she asks, he'll lie to her or pretend he doesn't know. From my perspective, I think he treats her like she's a dumb girl or like someone he needs to handle with kid gloves. In reality, she has a good handle on the House dynamics, and would actually be useful to him if he told her anything to go with her instincts, but he doesn't. She sees it as him protecting her because she thinks they're each others' number one, but that's not true. He takes advantage of her loyalty and doesn't give much back. 

I, personally, would hate if a guy treated me the way James treats Natalie - like he can decide what's good for me and what I do or do not need to know. But Natalie clearly doesn't, so I think she really might see it as him doing what he has to do for his daughter (because I've heard her mention his kids and how she knows he could use the money to help them).

Edited August 5, 2016 by mooses

[Kendall]

Just now, Callaphera said:

I hate to be that person, but really? People still think like this? Age ain't nothin' but a number. I say this as the daughter of two people who were happily married for 26 years with a 21 year age difference between them until my dad passed away. I might be biased, though.

I don't know how old you are, but a 21 year age difference then is much different than it would be now, in my opinion. Just the expectations and aspirations for the genders are completely different, so that would impact how a marriage would work with that kind of age gap nowadays.

It's not so much James' age, but his maturity level at his age. Also, I believe that at 26, 27, Natalie is too young to get involved with a father, especially a father from a one night stand. If he were an ex-husband, I'd cut some slack, because at least he had a plan and it just didn't work out.

But, I'm a firm believer that at 27, in her firsts should be his firsts. Whoever she ends up with, his first child should be her first child. His first marriage should be her first marriage. She's too young to have to deal with somebody else's troubles.

I'm sure I'll catch some flack for that, but I wouldn't want that for her if she were my relative.

[Umbelina]

#DavonneRTParty is trending on twitter right now LMFAO

[Wings]

Ha ha ha ha ha ha!  ^^^

I hate James. 

[Callaphera]

@Sayla Vee and @Kendall, both completely valid points. Sorry if I came off a little harsh about it. It's just one of my pet peeves and I tend to jump up to defend age disparities because I've seen them work so well before. 

[Wings]

I can talk about the live show here, right?  

[Callaphera]

17 minutes ago, wings707 said:

I can talk about the live show here, right?  

No. We can't live post about the show in the feeds thread.

[Umbelina]

ENDURANCE that any one can win!  Yay!  Also, GREAT hashtags to insult them.

 

Shocked it wasn't ocho, but oh well.

[Marie80]

1 hour ago, J.D. said:

She proved my point by saying the encounter could turn into something more, which begs the question, "Why would you want a one night stand,... or a TWO night stand or ANY night stand to turn into something more?"  I wasn't talking about potential love and relationships as she was eluding to by theorizing it could turn into something more.  I was talking about sex.  Just sex.  Earlier I said "A girl equates sex with love. To a guy, they are two completely separate entities."   After that comment there were a bunch of comments from various people trying to say that isn't true, .... people saying that women can stay detached.  In between all of that I made several posts clarifying that I have no problem with a healthy-minded woman enjoying sex for the sake of sex.  However, that part of my comments got lost in the shuffle. 

I don't appreciate you slandering me with the 'virgin/whore' assessment because I never said no such thing.  IF I had written, "If a bitch wants to fuck some dude she's not married to, then that bitch deserves to get 'clipped," -- then I could understand the venom.  But I didn't.

I really don't know why people are getting so upset over this.  If someone is a healthy-minded woman, who enjoys sex like a man does, then sobeit.  I have no problem with that.  I DO have a problem with women who SAY they're cool with casual sex, but then turn into territorial, jealous bunny boilers like Zakiyah.

I definitely was not trying to be venomous, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. It was just the conclusion that I came to from reading your comments and I don't think I was the only one. But you've clarified those comments so I believe you and now we can move on. :)

[mooses]

James definitely threw it. Bridgette is out. Michelle looks pissed.

[Lady Calypso]

Feeds are already back! James and Bridgette are already down.

[Wings]

Feeds are back!  YAY!  Michele looks very comfortable. 

[Callaphera]

Just now, Lady Calypso said:

Feeds are already back! James and Bridgette are already down.

Think they've heard our bitching about missing the last endurance comp? That was lightning fast for them to come back up.