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S02.E03: Guerilla

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Chet is allowed to produce a more male-skewing version of the show; Quinn decides to prove her own value; Rachel begins to suspect that Darius is hiding a secret; Chet struggles in a custody battle over his son.

 

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Yo, Quinn is so evil with that fake mother move. OMG. I fear for Rachel now that Quinn knows what she did. I didn't like that Rachel needed Coleman to tell her to stand and fight. Don't lean on a guy Rachel!

I don't trust Coleman though. While I was happy to see Rachel read him during that early scene about his ex-girlfriend because I was afraid he was just playing her, there's just something about him. If you told me at the end of the season that he had secret cameras planted around and was making a documentary that exposed all the dirty behind the scenes dealings I would not be surprised.

I appreciate Ruby's focus on justice but hey there's nothing wrong with dressing up a little every now and then.

Edited by TiffanyNichelle
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Wait... did Chet just kidnap a baby at the end?  

This episode was an improvement over the last two.  It was nice that the show allowed Rachel to have chemistry with someone else again (though her chemistry with Coleman isn't half as good as it was with Adam), as I think Shiri shines the brightest when she's playing off someone else. I feel like the show has really suffered so far by largely isolating Rachel from the contestants and the suitor, and I miss her friendly rapport with Jay.  She needs someone to bounce off of, and while I'm still not sold on Coleman as a character, he's a welcome foil that she's been missing.  Plus more time spent with him is less time spent with Chet.  But the kiss between Coleman and Rachel came waaaaay too soon.  Completely unearned and utterly annoying.  

I also really enjoyed seeing Quinn produce the girls, and watching Quinn and Rachel tag-team Brandi was easily the best that this show has been all season.  Too bad there likely won't be more of that now that Quinn knows that Rachel went to Gary behind her back.  

I really want to see Darius's character fleshed out some more.  He seems like he might be a more willing participant in the contestant manipulation game than Adam was.  

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This secret camera thing could totally be a thing.

No way Coleman is just a good guy. 

I did not have those fuzzy feelings seeing Rachel and Coleman make out.

Shiri definitely plays off of other people really well.

Rachel needs to manipulate more contestants. That was my favorite part of her character.

on Twitter they asked if were sold on Rachel and Coleman and most of the people said they don't like him or not sold on him just yet.

Before I got to know Brandi she's gone.

Darius is hiding something.  

Everyone's got motive. 

Spoiler

Chet gets arrested. Probably because he kidnapped the baby.

Edited by earlbny
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That was good. Hopefully last weeks mess was the anomaly and this is the rule.

The more we get of Jay the more it becomes obvious he probably cares too much. He is seriously invested in Ruby. Although I have to admit I have too she is easily my favourite girl so far.

Beth Ann is not making her people look good. Madison doesn't even really have to try to make her look like a dumbass.

So looks my wish for Chet to die in a fire may actually come true? He is definitely unhinged and it actually explains a lot about the MRA kick he is on. As long as he doesn't take the poor baby I would settle for a hail of gunfire. Although he is rich and white so Death By Cop isn't very likely in his case

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I bet a lot of shows have their equivalent of 'the hole' Brandi was thrown into. This past season of the UK's Celebrity Big Brother, one of the contestants had to stay overnight in a similar room - it was all black walls and unfurnished - because they had too many people who were ill or flipping out and destroying house property. 

This episode was definitely an improvement. I'm starting to warm up to Darius more as a character rather than someone good to look at.

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10 minutes ago, annewithaneee said:

I bet a lot of shows have their equivalent of 'the hole' Brandi was thrown into. This past season of the UK's Celebrity Big Brother, one of the contestants had to stay overnight in a similar room - it was all black walls and unfurnished - because they had too many people who were ill or flipping out and destroying house property. 

This episode was definitely an improvement. I'm starting to warm up to Darius more as a character rather than someone good to look at.

Big brother does for sure. At least in early seasons I remember when one guy was throwing over the tables and stuff a few people were actually in the back rooms where the cameramen usually sit.

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They jumped into that make out session way to fast. Just out of no where - I hate when they do that. Though this wasnt as bad as Jeremy and Rachel in the barn last season. I know they only have 10 eps but they couldn't have built it up a little more first?

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Eh.  I need a shower.  What is it with Marti Noxon and her post-Buffy ability to get me to hate myself for watching? At least Girlfriend's Guide had House Porn.

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Yes, this feels more like it.  I liked this episode.  This season got bad reviews so I am cautiously hopeful that I will like it enough to stay excited and so far I am, despite the flaws.  

I don't trust Coleman one bit.  

I love that Craig Bierko brings his own dog to the set and they worked him into the show.  Cute. 

Edited by wings707
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1 hour ago, Emily Thrace said:

That was good. Hopefully last weeks mess was the anomaly and this is the rule.

The more we get of Jay the more it becomes obvious he probably cares too much. He is seriously invested in Ruby. Although I have to admit I have too she is easily my favourite girl so far.

Beth Ann is not making her people look good. Madison doesn't even really have to try to make her look like a dumbass.

So looks my wish for Chet to die in a fire may actually come true? He is definitely unhinged and it actually explains a lot about the MRA kick he is on. As long as he doesn't take the poor baby I would settle for a hail of gunfire. Although he is rich and white so Death By Cop isn't very likely in his case

I want Jeremy to die in that fire too along with Chet!

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1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Yes, this feels more like it.  I liked this episode.  This season got bad reviews so I am cautiously hopeful that I will like it enough to stay excited and so far I am, despite the flaws.  

I don't trust Coleman one bit.  

I love that Craig Bierko brings his own dog to the set and they worked him into the show.  Cute. 

As I said above this was a step closer to season 1 form. Not perfect but better then the 1st 2 episodes.

I don't trust Coleman at all. 

I got to pet Craig's dog at the Vulture fest. Such a sweet dog.

Edited by earlbny
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It's interesting that people feel like this show is back to season 1 form.  I didn't like the first two episodes.  And while maybe this one did get back to first season-type machinations, I fear it might be too late for me to actually care. I found myself bored throughout the whole thing other than a few brief Darius moments.  I wasn't the world's biggest Adam fan but I do think the contestant and bachelorettes were better integrated last season.  I actually cared about a few of them. There are people I want to care about on this season but I am not getting there. 

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7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

It's interesting that people feel like this show is back to season 1 form.  I didn't like the first two episodes.  And while maybe this one did get back to first season-type machinations, I fear it might be too late for me to actually care. I found myself bored throughout the whole thing other than a few brief Darius moments.  I wasn't the world's biggest Adam fan but I do think the contestant and bachelorettes were better integrated last season.  I actually cared about a few of them. There are people I want to care about on this season but I am not getting there. 

To be completely honest. I am a Shiri fan and plan on watching this show as long as she's on it. As for Rafhel I don't need a man in her life to be satisfied. While She probably had the best chemistry with Adam. I perfered her better when she was single and moping around. I love when she manipulates the contestents. 

Last season we got to know the contestants sooner. Yet I still companined that people went home before they even spoke a full sentence. I have not latched onto any contest BTS or the suitor. Last year I was rooting for Faith from day one. 

I want to say it's early and the seasons just begun but we only have 10 episodes. 

I am am not giving up just yet. 

Edited by earlbny
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Better than last week.

I love Rachel when she's producing someone. She gets that look on her face, like a predator stalking their prey, and then bam! She pounces and they never know what hit them. 

For now I like Coleman and I like Coleman/Rachel. I'm withholding trust on Coleman, though. 

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I'm not trying to slut shame, but hasn't Rachel learned her lesson yet about work romances?  Is she really going to embroil herself in another one?  I realize the show is her life, but dang girl, these things never end well for you!

Wow, I thought Rachel was harsh, but Quinn is on a whole different level

I knew that conversation was going to get back to Rachel -- I think Gary really, really found her move repellent and maybe thats what she needs to worry about more.  That guy clearly doesn't like her, he probably doesn't like Quinn either, but rolling up with that car and giving it to the new guy (Coleman?) just so he could tell Quinn about his conversation with Rachel was harsh.

3 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:


So looks my wish for Chet to die in a fire may actually come true? He is definitely unhinged and it actually explains a lot about the MRA kick he is on. As long as he doesn't take the poor baby I would settle for a hail of gunfire. Although he is rich and white so Death By Cop isn't very likely in his case

Its possible...but just like Avis, he will have to try harder.

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3 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I bet a lot of shows have their equivalent of 'the hole' Brandi was thrown into. This past season of the UK's Celebrity Big Brother, one of the contestants had to stay overnight in a similar room - it was all black walls and unfurnished - because they had too many people who were ill or flipping out and destroying house property. 

This episode was definitely an improvement. I'm starting to warm up to Darius more as a character rather than someone good to look at.

Darius is still a mystery.  I don't think he was playing around with Brandy, I think he really cared, which is why I think he was super pissed.  But he didn't really care about Chantal in the hospital room but turned on the charm.  He better not be playing with Ruby!  Why won't racist chick take a hint and get lost? Go sew a confederate flag from the drapes or something.  And the "he isn't black, he is a quarterback!" argument feels ugly after watching the OJ 30 for 30 documentary.

And what is his plan, he is clearly nursing an injury.  So, what is his end game?  Get picked up by another team and bone out of his contract a year or two in?  Get additional opportunities in the world of entertainment?  Is the injury going to somehow come out on camera?  It must be terrible for him to tell Rachel anything about it, because if I were him I would worry about them using it for the show and ruining whatever plan I had

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The acting on this show is so good.  The shot of Quinn looking at Rachel when she found out about her betrayal was genuinely frightening - my stomach was immediately upset!

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8 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I don't trust Coleman though.

A guy who made his reputation with a film exposing sex traffickers is OK with locking up a woman against her will?

Total opportunist, not a good guy.

8 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

The more we get of Jay the more it becomes obvious he probably cares too much.

I'm leaning the other way.I think if he cared about her, he would have worked to give her a graceful exit from the show. For all of his talk, I think Jay's primary goal isn't to provide Ruby with a platform for her views (in part because he knows that's never going to happen on this particular show), it's to have the winning girl.

He likes her, but his goal comes first.

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8 hours ago, wings707 said:

I love that Craig Bierko brings his own dog to the set and they worked him into the show.  Cute. 

Poor Chet, that dog is the only creature on earth who truly loves him. He threw Quinn away, he's lost his wife and baby, all he has is his doggie.

6 hours ago, RCharter said:

Darius is still a mystery.  I don't think he was playing around with Brandy, I think he really cared, which is why I think he was super pissed.  But he didn't really care about Chantal in the hospital room but turned on the charm.  He better not be playing with Ruby!  Why won't racist chick take a hint and get lost? Go sew a confederate flag from the drapes or something.  And the "he isn't black, he is a quarterback!" argument feels ugly after watching the OJ 30 for 30 documentary.

 

I loved "he isn't black, he's a quarterback". "oh, but he's different".  Sure. A star quarterback, a singer, an actor, they're all right. Just as long as they don't move in next door, anyway. They can be thought of as people, not some nameless, faceless army of thugs to be hated and feared.

51 minutes ago, xaxat said:

A guy who made his reputation with a film exposing sex traffickers is OK with locking up a woman against her will?

Total opportunist, not a good guy.

I'm leaning the other way.I think if he cared about her, he would have worked to give her a graceful exit from the show. For all of his talk, I think Jay's primary goal isn't to provide Ruby with a platform for her views (in part because he knows that's never going to happen on this particular show), it's to have the winning girl.

He likes her, but his goal comes first.

I agree, Coleman has paid his dues in the trenches, now he wants that golden ticket. I'm old enough to remember when Geraldo Rivera was a crusading young journalist, with real chops and real cred, before he became a joke. Coleman reminds me of him.

Jay's already made his choice. He might have thought he genuinely cared about Ruby. But old habits die hard. He's ambitious and wants his place in the sun, just like everyone does. He's watched Rachel, Wagerstein, even Madison advance while he's stalled. He's quite able to be ruthless (remember his scenes with Shia last season, when she was effectively put in The Hole? He was cold as ice. Brrrr.) I think he's remembering Rachel's glory moment with Faith last season and thinking that Ruby could be his Faith, he can do something good in this hell broth of a show.

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10 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I don't trust Coleman though. While I was happy to see Rachel read him during that early scene about his ex-girlfriend because I was afraid he was just playing her, there's just something about him. If you told me at the end of the season that he had secret cameras planted around and was making a documentary that exposed all the dirty behind the scenes dealings I would not be surprised.

That would be awesome! I would love him if he did that.

What they did tonight to Brandi was hideous, it's like they want another suicide and then for Coleman to admire/like Rachel for that?! Yes it's clever for the show and got them a reaction but it's also completely sociopathic, just as disgusting as when Shia switched out Mary's medication. I don't understand how someone could want to further abuse an abuse victim. It's a shame because for me that removed Rachel's shades of grey, she's done a lot of dodgy things before but she also tried to do the right thing when she could or at least felt bad about the horrible things she did, this time though she seemed so proud of herself when it's easily the worst thing we've seen her do. Just gross. I can handle Quinn being like that but to have Rachel just be the same carries it too far. 

When they said The Hole I thought straightaway of Scientology!

It was certainly an exciting episode packed with a lot of story but it left me with a bitter taste in my mouth.

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11 hours ago, TiffanyNichelle said:

I don't trust Coleman though. While I was happy to see Rachel read him during that early scene about his ex-girlfriend because I was afraid he was just playing her, there's just something about him. If you told me at the end of the season that he had secret cameras planted around and was making a documentary that exposed all the dirty behind the scenes dealings I would not be surprised.

Ooh, good catch on that! Will watch for it!

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"I don't understand how someone could want to further abuse an abuse victim." Because they sign up for it. I hate to take the side of the monsters of Unreal but... everyone is a grown up and everyone who signs up for these shows has the ability to say no after reading the contract. The real people like Brandy who sign up for these shows are doing so because they are financially compensated at the very least. Even the first Survivor off the island gets a paycheck and in this world, you DO NOT have to be on a reality tv show to make a nice living or to get famous. After years and years of reality shows, only fools go into these shows thinking they will be the different one who doesn't get the horrific edit. It's hard to have any sympathy for the contestants, on this show or in real life reality shows, because sure, they have their damage and their sad backgrounds, and damn if they aren't ready and willing to spill it all out on national tv for money.

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11 hours ago, annewithaneee said:

I bet a lot of shows have their equivalent of 'the hole' Brandi was thrown into. This past season of the UK's Celebrity Big Brother, one of the contestants had to stay overnight in a similar room - it was all black walls and unfurnished - because they had too many people who were ill or flipping out and destroying house property. 

Now, see, I thought this show was going way too far with trying to say a contestant could be thrown into "The Hole" and I wasn't buying it - they couldn't REALLY do that - but apparently the actual shows can, and do???

I loved all this the first season and I'm a little disappointed so far this season. I don't want them to get too over the top and I REALLY don't want to see Quinn and Rachel trying to destroy each other. I want to see them work together to destroy contestants, suitors, network execs, Jeremy, and Chet. That's what this show is for me!

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OK, I think I get it now: Quinn promised "suicide ratings without the suicide." That's why they took Brandi to the edge, but then put her in The Hole to make sure suicide didn't actually happen. At least, not while she was still in the mansion. Yes? You can't OD or jump off the roof if you're locked up in a bare little room. But still, jeez . . . 

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8 hours ago, RCharter said:

I knew that conversation was going to get back to Rachel -- I think Gary really, really found her move repellent and maybe thats what she needs to worry about more.  That guy clearly doesn't like her, he probably doesn't like Quinn either, but rolling up with that car and giving it to the new guy (Coleman?) just so he could tell Quinn about his conversation with Rachel was harsh.

I don't think he gave Coleman the Bugatti JUST so he could tell Quinn about Rachel.  I think he did it because he found Quinn's phone call to him as repellant as he did Rachel going over her boss's head.  He clearly does not like Quinn (and honestly, to me he seems like a good ol' boy who is more comfortable having a man be in charge), and I think the big demonstration with the car was Gary's way of putting Quinn "in her place."

8 hours ago, RCharter said:

So, what is his end game?  Get picked up by another team and bone out of his contract a year or two in?  Get additional opportunities in the world of entertainment?  

My pet theory is that he has a career ending injury and is hoping to open up a Michael Strahan (the ex-football player who went on to replace Regis Philbin on Live with Kelly, before moving to Good Morning America) style career path for himself.  He might be hoping that Everlasting can serve the dual purpose of rehabbing his image/making him seem likable and increasing his name recognition outside of people who watch football.

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2 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

I don't think he gave Coleman the Bugatti JUST so he could tell Quinn about Rachel.  I think he did it because he found Quinn's phone call to him as repellant as he did Rachel going over her boss's head.  He clearly does not like Quinn (and honestly, to me he seems like a good ol' boy who is more comfortable having a man be in charge), and I think the big demonstration with the car was Gary's way of putting Quinn "in her place."

My pet theory is that he has a career ending injury and is hoping to open up a Michael Strahan (the ex-football player who went on to replace Regis Philbin on Live with Kelly, before moving to Good Morning America) style career path for himself.  He might be hoping that Everlasting can serve the dual purpose of rehabbing his image/making him seem likable and increasing his name recognition outside of people who watch football.

That also makes sense as Gary's motivation.  I wish Rachel hadn't stepped right into it, and basically handed Gary an excuse to take the show away from her and Quinn.  It might have been hard to get the show from Quinn, but now she ended up giving Gary a reason to put a man in charge of both of them.  And while Coleman can't turn down a car...and I get that.....there is still a tiny part of me that is bitter about him gleefully taking credit where he absolutely didn't earn it.

At the same time, I think Quinn could have struck a different tone with Gary in the message.  It sucks monkey balls, because if she was a man her grandstanding wouldn't even be an issue.

I think that your theory on Darius could be spot on.  I don't know why he would trust Rachel with any of that information.  

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Gary hates Quinn, they established that last season. And these guys all seem to dig a big, splashy public humiliation. All this chest thumping to show who's boss. He snapped Quinn back and hard, and he did it in person in front of the whole crew so she'd have less room to maneuver. No wonder he and Chet are buddies. They both don't like women much.

My tivo cut out at 1 hour 2 minutes--how much did I miss? Apparently Chet kidnapped his baby, and Rachel and Coleman sucked face? PLEASE tell me Rachel is still "producing" Coleman. If she falls for his line I will be bitterly disappointed.

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I don't know anything about Big Brother, but I don't believe the attorney's for any show would allow the show to put in a clause that contestants could be thrown into a "hole" with no phone, food or water for an unnamed amount of time. And I don't believe any contestant would sign it. I think Brandy would and could sue the show producer's and if that didn't work, this would be all over the tabloids the second the show ends. The goings on in this show actually seem a little dated to me. Years ago, we didn't know much about what happened behind the scenes of shows like the Bachelor, now we know pretty much everything.

I thought there was some amusing content in the first season, but now it seems to be just about destroying people's lives. I don't know if they are going for campy, drama, comedy or a mix. I find most of the people on the show repulsive. 

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1 hour ago, ZoloftBlob said:

"I don't understand how someone could want to further abuse an abuse victim." Because they sign up for it. I hate to take the side of the monsters of Unreal but... everyone is a grown up and everyone who signs up for these shows has the ability to say no after reading the contract. The real people like Brandy who sign up for these shows are doing so because they are financially compensated at the very least. Even the first Survivor off the island gets a paycheck and in this world, you DO NOT have to be on a reality tv show to make a nice living or to get famous. After years and years of reality shows, only fools go into these shows thinking they will be the different one who doesn't get the horrific edit. It's hard to have any sympathy for the contestants, on this show or in real life reality shows, because sure, they have their damage and their sad backgrounds, and damn if they aren't ready and willing to spill it all out on national tv for money.

There's a massive difference between the usual reality show manipulating to filming someone's cigarette burns and then claiming that it's self-inflicted, who would ever even think to torture someone like that. That was not a horrific edit, that was sending someone to a psych ward or worse. I work for a reality producer so have a bit of an idea about the BTS with his shows and they certainly do push the contestants with lack of sleep, stressful situations, pushing buttons, etc but calling an abuse victim a liar on national television? No way. Not that I expect UNreal to actually be based in reality but just in response to your comment about contestants in the real unreal world.

People are crazy to go on reality shows with the expectation they'll make money on it, the weekly pay barely covers your rent/bills/etc and the odds are low that you'll win or that you'll be remembered a week after you're off the show; if people sign up they are best to look at it as an 'experience' rather than a path to fame and fortune. I would never do it, it would be awful!

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5 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

I don't know anything about Big Brother, but I don't believe the attorney's for any show would allow the show to put in a clause that contestants could be thrown into a "hole" with no phone, food or water for an unnamed amount of time. And I don't believe any contestant would sign it. I think Brandy would and could sue the show producer's and if that didn't work, this would be all over the tabloids the second the show ends. The goings on in this show actually seem a little dated to me. Years ago, we didn't know much about what happened behind the scenes of shows like the Bachelor, now we know pretty much everything.

I thought there was some amusing content in the first season, but now it seems to be just about destroying people's lives. I don't know if they are going for campy, drama, comedy or a mix. I find most of the people on the show repulsive. 

Generally, you can contract around negligence, and putting someone in a hole to keep them from hurting themselves or someone else may only be seen as negligent.  It could be false imprisonment, or even kidnapping I suppose -- but those would both be criminal charges and so you would have to have a DA willing to bring them.  Although FI is also a civil action, so...maybe.

I doubt its an actual clause that you can throw people into a hole.  However, I think the contract probably stipulates that the contestants cannot sue the show, or they release the show from liability, or an indemnity clause.  They also have a confidentiality clause and I'm not sure how that would affect the ability to sue.  There may also be a contract clause that all claims must go to mediation or arbitration.  Those clauses are generally upheld by the courts for civil matters.

DO believe that contestants probably just sign and don't read the contract thoroughly or take it to an attorney.  I'm sure the contracts they sign are one sided.

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1 hour ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Apparently Chet kidnapped his baby, and Rachel and Coleman sucked face? PLEASE tell me Rachel is still "producing" Coleman. If she falls for his line I will be bitterly disappointed.

I don't think I'm an ardent feminist....but I'm not sure how I feel about Rachel using her sexuality to "produce" someone.  I think women should have sex when they want, with who they want, and whatever.  But, I just think it plays into such old school notions, and really lowest common denominator for a women to use sex to get what she wants.  And I think Rachel is so much smarter than all of that.

But yeah, Chet kidnaps his baby.  I guess his wife was gone, and didn't change the locks and left the baby alone in his crib?  I don't know how many other kids they have, but when my brother had his first baby, that child couldn't so much as take a loud fart without having 5 people checking on him.

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33 minutes ago, RCharter said:

DO believe that contestants probably just sign and don't read the contract thoroughly or take it to an attorney.  I'm sure the contracts they sign are one sided.

Sure, but a contract that allows anything illegal is not enforceable. 

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3 minutes ago, backformore said:

Sure, but a contract that allows anything illegal is not enforceable. 

Its not illegal for a contract to say that all claims must go to mediation first, or arbitration.  Its not illegal to put in an indemnity clause (basically forcing the contestant to pay them back or "indemnify" them from whatever award she got).   

But even a contract that has a term that allows for something illegal is still enforceable if the illegal term can be struck from the contract without effecting the essence of the contract.

This is why I said, its unlikely that the contract has an actual "I can throw you in a closet" term.  But rather would rely on forcing mediation/arbitration for a civil claim, or indemnity.

And, putting someone in a locked room to keep them from hurting themselves or others, or because they are a threat is probably not illegal.  It may not even rise to the level of false imprisonment.

Edited by RCharter
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Even if she were to sue and win, the damage is already done. She'll always be the crazy one who jumped that quarterback on TV. 

It amuses me how easily manipulated these girls are - even the "smart" ones. When Rachel told redneck girl Twitter was blowing up, I was all, so, but she ate it up, and it convinced her to stay. I know this is fictional, but I have no doubt this happens on actual reality shows, and I realized I would never be chosen to be on one. 

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2 hours ago, RCharter said:

I think that your theory on Darius could be spot on.  I don't know why he would trust Rachel with any of that information.  

Rachel's already guessed most of it, so better that they get her on their side before she stirs stuff up.

2 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Gary hates Quinn, they established that last season.

That was Brad last season, not Gary. Gary's this season - a new character.

I am still liking UnReal so far, though I miss Adam. In general everyone seems to be meaner this season. I guess that happens. But I still find myself checking the runtime on the episode that there's a lot more of the episode to go. whereas with other shows I'd be checking to see how much longer the episode will run, if that makes sense. 

There was also a moment at the end where i was afraid that Coleman was producing Rachel. I hope I was wrong. 

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55 minutes ago, RCharter said:

 But, I just think it plays into such old school notions, and really lowest common denominator for a women to use sex to get what she wants.  And I think Rachel is so much smarter than all of that.

Sigh. I know and I agree. I'm clutching at straws. I do not want Rachel to have any kind of personal relationship with Geraldo Lite. As you point out, she's smarter than that. That's why I'm feebly hoping she's stringing him along. Anything other than making herself vulnerable to a man who has power over her.

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1 hour ago, RCharter said:

Chet kidnaps his baby.  I guess his wife was gone, and didn't change the locks and left the baby alone in his crib?  I don't know how many other kids they have, but when my brother had his first baby, that child couldn't so much as take a loud fart without having 5 people checking on him.

That is exactly what I think! No monitor, no nanny? No security system at the house? I'm suspending my disbelief hard core. That baby is Cynthia's meal ticket. No way he's not carefully watched!

Edited by Pepper Mostly
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1 hour ago, RCharter said:

Generally, you can contract around negligence, and putting someone in a hole to keep them from hurting themselves or someone else may only be seen as negligent.  It could be false imprisonment, or even kidnapping I suppose -- but those would both be criminal charges and so you would have to have a DA willing to bring them.  Although FI is also a civil action, so...maybe.

I doubt its an actual clause that you can throw people into a hole.  However, I think the contract probably stipulates that the contestants cannot sue the show, or they release the show from liability, or an indemnity clause.  They also have a confidentiality clause and I'm not sure how that would affect the ability to sue.  There may also be a contract clause that all claims must go to mediation or arbitration.  Those clauses are generally upheld by the courts for civil matters.

DO believe that contestants probably just sign and don't read the contract thoroughly or take it to an attorney.  I'm sure the contracts they sign are one sided.

Years ago there was a copy of the contract that The Real World cast members sign floating around the interwebs, and they basically have no recourse. Like, one cast member could murder another and nothing would happen to the show. It was crazy. (That murder comment was hyperbole on my part, but I believe there have really been a couple of sexual assaults on that show and its spinoff, The Challenge, but both shows continue to air.) So I'd guess the Everlasting contracts are similar.

15 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Even if she were to sue and win, the damage is already done. She'll always be the crazy one who jumped that quarterback on TV. 

It amuses me how easily manipulated these girls are - even the "smart" ones. When Rachel told redneck girl Twitter was blowing up, I was all, so, but she ate it up, and it convinced her to stay. I know this is fictional, but I have no doubt this happens on actual reality shows, and I realized I would never be chosen to be on one. 

I would be the WORST contestant. "We're going on this obstacle course!" "OK, but I'm not wearing that sports bra and hot pants combo." "You have to." "I'm grown. I don't have to do anything. Bye." Or I would be one of those people who takes herself out of the running because I knew the guy wasn't for me, because I don't care about being famous. Actually, I do care - I don't want to be famous. Rich, yes, Famous, no.

I just really do not care about Rachel's love life. With anyone, at all.

I peeped that "he's a quarterback!" shit too, and it's in character. Of COURSE a famous rich athlete is OK, because that's the "right" kind of black. Even Quinn said he was "just" football black. Ugh. Racism is so disgusting. I'm used to it, but it never stops being disgusting.

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11 minutes ago, romantic idiot said:

That was Brad last season, not Gary. Gary's this season - a new character.

Facepalm. God, they're all alike in their skeezy-ness I guess! I'm an idiot.

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3 hours ago, RCharter said:

I think that your theory on Darius could be spot on.  I don't know why he would trust Rachel with any of that information.  

Maybe he doesn't have much of a choice? When Rachel went to meet him at the end of the episode, Darius looked like he was in pretty bad shape. If Brandi's attack aggravated an injury to the point where he's having serious trouble with pain or moving around, he may need the assistance of someone on the show. And since it looks like Darius and Romeo have lost their faith in Chet, Rachel's probably the most obvious person to turn to.

3 hours ago, Pepper Mostly said:

My tivo cut out at 1 hour 2 minutes--how much did I miss? Apparently Chet kidnapped his baby, and Rachel and Coleman sucked face? PLEASE tell me Rachel is still "producing" Coleman. If she falls for his line I will be bitterly disappointed.

As for what happened in the last few minutes of the show, we saw Chet go into his son's nursery, pick up the baby and walk out. Since it was established this week that Chet's ex has sole custody of the kid, I'm pretty sure this was not an authorized outing. Then we saw Rachel rushing around her room in terror over what Quinn will do to her now that she's found out that Rachel went to the network. Coleman walks in, calms her down and tells her she doesn't need Quinn then kisses her. Since he initiated the encounter, I don't think Rachel was producing him. They make out aggressively before Rachel is called away when a PA tells Rachel over her walkie that Darius needs her. Rachel goes to Darius's room where he's in bed and appears to be in pain. He tells Rachel to shut the door behind her. I think that that's all.

2 hours ago, Madding crowd said:

I don't know anything about Big Brother, but I don't believe the attorney's for any show would allow the show to put in a clause that contestants could be thrown into a "hole" with no phone, food or water for an unnamed amount of time. And I don't believe any contestant would sign it. I think Brandy would and could sue the show producer's and if that didn't work, this would be all over the tabloids the second the show ends. The goings on in this show actually seem a little dated to me. Years ago, we didn't know much about what happened behind the scenes of shows like the Bachelor, now we know pretty much everything.

 

I don't know, after everything I've heard about what goes on behind the scenes at the Biggest Loser where shit goes down that is incredibly medically dangerous, I have no problem believing that something like "the hole" could exist in real life. As for not believing contestants would sign contracts that would allow such things, c'mon. People sign contracts they either don't read carefully or don't fully understand every day, and I doubt most reality contestants have their own independent counsel advising them when they sign up.

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I will be heartbroken if this show disappoints all the way through the season but I am not encouraged. Some things just seem sloppy to me - like when Quinn tells Rachel to put Brandi in the hole and Rachel asks, 'didn't we do that in season 8?' If you think about it, this makes no sense - even though they filmed her in the 'hole,' I highly doubt they used that in the show's edit - they would look like monsters for putting her in a serial killer looking room. More likely it was just a psychological tactic to get her in the right frame of mind, meaning they could do it every single season and it wouldn't matter (it only matters if it's repetitive to the viewing audience). I also have a lot of trouble believing Quinn would, at this stage in her career, get so in the weeds as she is w/producing individual contestants, etc. She has an overall development deal, she should be visiting different sets and have different shows in stages of development. I think we're supposed to believe she is a badass exec but there's part of the network guy that is right when he suggests she is not performing like someone at her level - if she's running around and doing things junior producers do, she's not a high performer. The only character justification I find compelling as a reason to still be on that set is Rachel, explaining how she fought for the first African American suitor and wants to stay to make sure the story is told correctly.

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9 minutes ago, xqueenfrostine said:

As for what happened in the last few minutes of the show, we saw Chet go into his son's nursery, pick up the baby and walk out. Since it was established this week that Chet's ex has sole custody of the kid, I'm pretty sure this was not an authorized outing. Then we saw Rachel rushing around her room in terror over what Quinn will do to her now that she's found out that Rachel went to the network. Coleman walks in, calms her down and tells her she doesn't need Quinn then kisses her. Since he initiated the encounter, I don't think Rachel was producing him. They make out aggressively before Rachel is called away when a PA tells Rachel over her walkie that Darius needs her. Rachel goes to Darius's room where he's in bed and appears to be in pain. He tells Rachel to shut the door behind her. I think that that's all.

Thanks @xqueenfrostine! That is really helpful. So, is Coleman crushing on Rachel? Using her? (likely). Does Rachel respond to a man who is into her since she's craving validation? Did she respond to Coleman because she was so freaked out and agitated? She's full of adrenaline, nerves are humming, maybe a good makeout (or more!) is just what the doctor ordered? Is she into him? (doubtful, right?) Did Jeremy or Chet or Romeo tell him that Rachel was a freak and always up for it so why not go get some of that? I am intrigued. I do not want to be disappointed, show! Give me a twist, a jaw dropping, gasp inducing twist like Rachel dropping the gossip mag into the trash carelessly ON PURPOSE so one of the hamsters will find it. I loved that moment so much last season.

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1 hour ago, Empress1 said:

Years ago there was a copy of the contract that The Real World cast members sign floating around the interwebs, and they basically have no recourse. Like, one cast member could murder another and nothing would happen to the show. It was crazy. (That murder comment was hyperbole on my part, but I believe there have really been a couple of sexual assaults on that show and its spinoff, The Challenge, but both shows continue to air.) So I'd guess the Everlasting contracts are similar.

I would be the WORST contestant. "We're going on this obstacle course!" "OK, but I'm not wearing that sports bra and hot pants combo." "You have to." "I'm grown. I don't have to do anything. Bye." Or I would be one of those people who takes herself out of the running because I knew the guy wasn't for me, because I don't care about being famous. Actually, I do care - I don't want to be famous. Rich, yes, Famous, no.

I just really do not care about Rachel's love life. With anyone, at all.

I peeped that "he's a quarterback!" shit too, and it's in character. Of COURSE a famous rich athlete is OK, because that's the "right" kind of black. Even Quinn said he was "just" football black. Ugh. Racism is so disgusting. I'm used to it, but it never stops being disgusting.

Yep, there is a world full of people desperate for their 15 minutes that are willing to sign anything.  The beauty of it is that the contract probably protects the show, but without those deep pockets to sue who are you going to get to take your case?

Interestingly enough, there was a reality show called like The Game, or Marry the Game or something along those lines.  It was about famous rapper, The Game, trying to find love...Bachelor style.  I believe that one of the contestants sued him for sexual assault.  Or she made a criminal complaint of sexual assault.  And I thought that was interesting, in light of the contract that I'm sure she had to sign with the production company.  I thought that perhaps she could sue the Game personally, since it would have nothing to do with the production company.  So does the contract allow the girls the sue the suitor?  I mean, it would never come up, but its an interesting question.  Of course, you could contract around that with an indemnity clause.

I'd be the worst contestant too, so you and I could leave together.  But I also wouldn't want to have to live my life in a bikini or tight dress -- sometimes a girl gets bloated and just wants to wear her comfy yoga pants!

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34 minutes ago, BingeyKohan said:

I will be heartbroken if this show disappoints all the way through the season but I am not encouraged. Some things just seem sloppy to me - like when Quinn tells Rachel to put Brandi in the hole and Rachel asks, 'didn't we do that in season 8?' If you think about it, this makes no sense - even though they filmed her in the 'hole,' I highly doubt they used that in the show's edit - they would look like monsters for putting her in a serial killer looking room. More likely it was just a psychological tactic to get her in the right frame of mind, meaning they could do it every single season and it wouldn't matter (it only matters if it's repetitive to the viewing audience). I also have a lot of trouble believing Quinn would, at this stage in her career, get so in the weeds as she is w/producing individual contestants, etc. She has an overall development deal, she should be visiting different sets and have different shows in stages of development. I think we're supposed to believe she is a badass exec but there's part of the network guy that is right when he suggests she is not performing like someone at her level - if she's running around and doing things junior producers do, she's not a high performer. The only character justification I find compelling as a reason to still be on that set is Rachel, explaining how she fought for the first African American suitor and wants to stay to make sure the story is told correctly.

You know -- maybe its because I believe in razing and salting the earth, but if I were Quinn I'd be like "I'm gonna take a few days off, and you can have your show run by PBS documentary dude, crazy eyed Chet, and likely to suffer a breakdown Rachel.  We'll see who you want to buy a fancy car after about a week of that shitshow."

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4 minutes ago, RCharter said:

You know -- maybe its because I believe in razing and salting the earth, but if I were Quinn I'd be like "I'm gonna take a few days off, and you can have your show run by PBS documentary dude, crazy eyed Chet, and likely to suffer a breakdown Rachel.  We'll see who you want to buy a fancy car after about a week of that shitshow."

Ha, totally! And I feel like I'm being nitpicky about the 'we did that in s8' thing' - but I also forgot to nitpick the network exec speech where the camera is trained (just like Everlasting producers do to set up contestants in for a downfall) on either Quinn or Rachel looking smug until they realize he's praising Coleman rather than them. I guess the writers did that for some kind of parallelism between Q&R but happening in back to back weeks it just looks lazy and repetitive. 

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