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S06.E08: No One


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(edited)

The Hound was in rare form and the only humor in this episode. Everything he did or said pleased me, especially not missing an opportunity to snag himself a pair of boots.  I am disgusted beyond belief by Jamie Lannister. If there is any justice in Westeros, his ass will fry.  Acting in an honorable way towards Brienne doesn't change the fact that Jamie is a major dick.  I don't like him.  That said, nothing tickles me more than when a plan fails spectacularly for Cersei Lannister.  I'm loving it that her fate is going to be determined by the dirty fanatics she let loose in KL.  Tommen continues to be a pathetic pawn.  I'm waiting for someone to put him out of his misery. It's almost painful watching Tyrion trying to forge some kind of bond between himself, Grey Worm and Missandei.  He's really going to miss Varys a lot.  Seeing as Dany didn't really do anything, I don't know why time was wasted showing her arrival.  I suspected she would show up like she did, but I thought she would do something.  Okay, maybe that was expecting too much, but at least she could have SAID something.  Arya's arc finished as I expected with A Man wanting things to end as they did and acknowledging her path lies elsewhere.  I am fiercely missing Jon Snow and his army.  I hope next week kicks up the energy level tenfold.

Edited by taurusrose
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3 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

It sounds like the BWOB are gearing up for the real war, which is interesting since most of the Southerners don't believe in the White Walkers. Then again, maybe Rhollorians can read it in the flames.

Actually, it does make sense. Kinvara has already said that Dany is the one to lead (or however she phrased it) in the war to come. Melisande knows about the WW. I'm guessing the knowledge has worked it's way through the ranks of the Red Priests/Priestesses and Thoros knows about them.

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Sorry but I'm glad Cerseis trial by combat got cancelled. KL hasn't been the most interesting but I'm enjoying seeing her get owned at every turn.

I dreaded Jaime saying the "I love Cersei " bit from the previews but in context to the episode I didn't hate it at all.  I know us bookies are upset about Jaime with good reason but this was the first time since the deviation that I liked it.  Despite that declaration it's the first instance that the breach could be possible.

And I agree with posters up thread that the wildfire is the secret rumor.

Aaaand it looks like Varys will be back in Westeros for the events of the ADWD epilogue.

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5 minutes ago, Captain Stable said:

Didn't Tyrion use all the Wildfire during Season 2?

Season 3, Jaime and Brienne in the bath:  Jaime told Brienne that Mad King Aerys hid caches of wild fire all over the city.  In the books, the head Alchemist told Tyrion that they were still finding those caches occasionally.  Earlier this season, one of Bran's speed-visions included an explosion of wildfire somewhere inside a building.  That was probably a future vision since 1) Aerys died before he could set any of his off and 2) the wildfire explosion Tyrion caused was out in Blackwater Bay.

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Waif = worst.assassin.ever.  

Jaime's trek to the Riverlands = least.relevant.storyline.since.Dorne.

The only upside to the Riverlands being wrapped up so quickly is that it probably gets Jaime back to Kings Landing in time for shit to go down this season.  Which makes me wonder if Tommen will be one of the Bastards involved in a Battle next week?

Finally: Hound = Boss.

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20 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I also don't understand at all how Arya beating/killing the Terminator meant that she was now "No One" to Jaqen. Huh?

He said that so that she could say, "No, I'm Arya Stark of Winterfell", of course!

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2 minutes ago, kittykat said:

Sorry but I'm glad Cerseis trial by combat got cancelled. KL hasn't been the most interesting but I'm enjoying seeing her get owned at every turn.

I hope that little demonstration of hers with the mountain was worth it.  It's getting downright painful watching the Sparrow outmaneuver her at every turn.

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7 minutes ago, Skeeter22 said:

I laughed when Tommen canceled Cleganebowl. What an anticlimactic way to crush fanboys' dreams. Of course, with two separate reminders in this episode that Cersei wants Sansa dead and the Hound heading north, I think Cleganebowl has just been postponed and moved to a new venue. 

Yes,

A Knight golden as the sun, and a face of a hound a Giant with black blood shadow over all of them.

Which could mean since it hasn't been shown (yet)

TGOHH prophesy isn't being used, or it's coming from Melisandre like her talk to Arya.

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(edited)

The only reason I can think that the Blackfish’s death was off-camera is because it would have seemed like a rehash of Ser Barristan’s death.  Old knight cuts down a ton of guys before finally being cut down himself.

As I said before, if they had just left Blackfish at Riverrun instead of inexplicably bringing him to the Red Wedding, we could have avoided the whole ridiculous “I’m not running” thing.  I’d much rather see the Blackfish alive and leading what men he can to fight for Sansa.  I don’t mind Jon and Sansa having his help.  Granted, it makes more sense for Blackfish’s storyline to conclude in the Riverlands but still, I would have liked to have seen him fighting for Sansa and he would have been likely to have killed Littlefinger.

Though I’m sure SUPER RAMSAY would have just killed Blackfish with his super smirk.  That’s what happens when the writers love you…

Edited by benteen
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5 minutes ago, taurusrose said:

Seeing as Dany didn't really do anything, I don't know why time was wasted showing her arrival.  I suspected she would show up like she did, but I thought she would do something.  Okay, maybe that was expecting too much, but at least she could have SAID something. 

I guess since she's already missed 2 episodes, they felt they had to shoehorn her in to keep her episode count up?

And she seems to have a maximum quota for times per season when she does something, so we gotta wait for the tail end of the season.

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(edited)

So, what I'm getting from this season is that nobody is the slightest bit concerned that Walder Frey might be angry about his allies knowingly and cold-bloodedly killing his children and grandchildren. Ramsay at least we know is, well, Ramsay. Jaime's plan to launch a Frey toddler into a castle with a trebuchet is a bit more surprising.

EDIT: Especially considering they are surrounded by Freys and helping the Freys in this battle. None of them would have a problem with their little nephew/cousin/etc being cold bloodedly murdered by the man sent there to help them? No? 

Edited by Anisky
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23 minutes ago, sumiregusa said:

Well once again I gave the writers of this show a little too much credit. The Jaqen = Arya plot was apparently too clever an idea for them. 

Episode 8 last season gave us "Hardhome" and last season was terrible. This definitely was not even that. 

Then again, S5E9 brought us the horrible Shireen burning episode.  i have a feeling next week will be much better by comparison.

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Lady Crane must be one hell of a seamstress. Either that, or Arya's rehab took weeks. I think Jaquen doesn't have any helpers left? Guess he'll be washing up Waif blood and doing his own poisoning now. Maybe there's a great cleaning service in Braavos?

Welcome back Beric and Thoros. Laughed at the Hound taking the boots.

Jaime and Brienne. She really is like that nagging voice of reason for him. Too bad he's deaf. Edmure, you're still an idiot. Holding out hope that the Blackfish escaped. 

If the Mountain was going to rip off a head, why not make it count and be Lancel?  

Welcome back Dany, the kids are drunk, and there's fire in the city. See what happens when mothers of dragons leave town?

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7 minutes ago, Anisky said:

So, what I'm getting from this season is that nobody is the slightest bit concerned that Walder Frey might be angry about his allies knowingly and cold-bloodedly killing his children and grandchildren. Ramsay at least we know is, well, Ramsay. Jaime's plan to launch a Frey toddler into a castle with a trebuchet is a bit more surprising.

EDIT: Especially considering they are surrounded by Freys and helping the Freys in this battle. None of them would have a problem with their little nephew/cousin/etc being cold bloodedly murdered by the man sent there to help them? No? 

It was a bluff, and it worked.

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I'm rewatching it right now. I'm holding out hope for the Blackfish. That Tully guard he ordered NOT to let Edmure in looked thoroughly disgusted that as soon as he let Edmure in, Edmure promptly handed the castle over to the Lannisters/Freys. And that same guard is the same who ordered the men to find the Blackfish. Wouldn't take much to have the Blackfish quietly escape, although I haven't worked out in my head yet what they'd do if asked to present a dead body.

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While watching, I hated Jaime in the Edmure scene, because Tully was right, but then I had a bit of time to think afterwards. Noting that this was a bluff on Jaime's part above, is it possible that while he does love Cersei, ick, his bluff to Edmure was also to protect Brienne, who he loves deep down, and doesn't want to fight?  Hope?  

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1 minute ago, sunflower said:

While watching, I hated Jaime in the Edmure scene, because Tully was right, but then I had a bit of time to think afterwards. Noting that this was a bluff on Jaime's part above, is it possible that while he does love Cersei, ick, his bluff to Edmure was also to protect Brienne, who he loves deep down, and doesn't want to fight?  Hope?  

She did ask him to take Riverrun without bloodshed, and he did do (almost) exactly that.

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1 minute ago, sunflower said:

While watching, I hated Jaime in the Edmure scene, because Tully was right, but then I had a bit of time to think afterwards. Noting that this was a bluff on Jaime's part above, is it possible that while he does love Cersei, ick, his bluff to Edmure was also to protect Brienne, who he loves deep down, and doesn't want to fight?  Hope?  

Hmmm...I greatly prefer this.

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Well, I did think something would go wrong with the trial by combat, because Cersei was way too confident about it and we all know things don't work out as planned in the GoT universe...but, again, this is something where a deviation from the books hurts. In the books, Loras isn't caught up in all this, he's off somewhere mortally wounded, so to have Tommen eliminate the trial by combat concept, if it happens that way in the books, works out fine. Margaery's the one caught up in it, and all her own choices for a champion suck (since, as Cersei explained to her, she's not allowed to choose her brother Garlan), so not getting to go the trial by combat route doesn't really make a difference to her. But on the TV show, Loras does stand accused, and why would Margaery allow the canceling of his own trial by combat? He doesn't have any chance with a trial by septons given the evidence against him and that Margaery can't lie for him again.

So it's a lot like the Dorne plot deviation, which, while on the whole I wasn't sad to see the way the TV show went with it because I've always had the feeling the books' Dorne plot would end up not amounting to much actual impact, having the Lannisters being more concerned about giving Riverrun back to the whiny Freys who lost the castle as opposed to attacking Dorne really makes no sense. Myrcella was the king's own sister, and Dorne is in rebellion. Realistically, the Lannisters would be telling the Freys to take care of their own damn problems because the Lannister army is needed elsewhere. This is the family that went to war because Catelyn took Tyrion prisoner. Ellaria murdered Myrcella.

All the preview showed is the Battle of Winterfell, but I wonder if it's going to be intercut with the Battle of Meereen. That juxtaposition would be interesting since fire is going to be key to the Meereen scenes (thanks to the dragons) while Winterfell is all snow and ice.

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1 minute ago, lmsweb said:

I'm rewatching it right now. I'm holding out hope for the Blackfish. That Tully guard he ordered NOT to let Edmure in looked thoroughly disgusted that as soon as he let Edmure in, Edmure promptly handed the castle over to the Lannisters/Freys. And that same guard is the same who ordered the men to find the Blackfish. Wouldn't take much to have the Blackfish quietly escape, although I haven't worked out in my head yet what they'd do if asked to present a dead body.

Blackfish had a chance to escape and didn't take it. Why would he take such a chance a second time?

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36 minutes ago, Potanical Pardon said:

I also don't understand at all how Arya beating/killing the Terminator meant that she was now "No One" to Jaqen. Huh?

I suppose the point was that Jaqen knew that if Arya had managed to kill the Waif, it meant she had great natural talent, and he was wistfully hoping that Arya coming back to Faceless HQ instead of running away meant that she had changed her mind and decided to stay with the Faceless Men. Wishful thinking on his part.

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2 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Blackfish had a chance to escape and didn't take it. Why would he take such a chance a second time?

He may have figured if he ran, they'd hunt him down, along with Brienne and Pod. Honestly, I'm just trying to hold out hope he isn't actually *dead* dead.

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43 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

I was glad to see them close the loop about where the HECK Needle was all this time. 

But alas, no Syrio Forel in the episode.

Hey book readers -- I have a vague memory of Jamie threatening to hurl Edmure's son over the battlements and that the threat worked.  Is that right?  Are we back on book for a while?  Did the Blackfish die in the book?  (It's been too long for me.)

Yes, Jaime made a similar threat to Edmure in the books. Blackfish isn't dead in the books. Edmure delayed surrendering Riverrun long enough for his uncle to escape. His current whereabouts are unknown.

 

all in all, one of the weaker episodes of the season, I thought. Aryas story continues to bore me, and while she appears to be FINALLY moving on, the past few seasons just feel like a waste. Oh, and her bouncing back almost immediately from the Julius Ceasar treatment made me roll my eyes.

 

Meeren is equally boring, I find, and I didn't miss Tyrion at all these past few weeks. Hopefully we at least get a bit of Drogon destruction before the GreyJoys arrive. And Varys is headed where? Dorne? 

I liked the Riverlands/Kings Landing/Hound stuff well enough, but Brianne and Pod's presence seemed pointless. Are we supposed to believe that Jaime would actually have let the Tully army walk away fully armed, and go wAge war on the lawful Warden of the North? 

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Tyrion, not one but now two scenes of pointless, do I call that dialogue, with Grey Worm and the translator girl whose name I can't spell?  His story sucks man, I guess someone major had to go East to Join Dany, but, ugh on every level.  

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(edited)

I feel very dense or maybe I tuned out. How did Jamie convince Edmure to do what he did?

Where are the other two dragons? What was the point of Tyrion unchaining them?

Arya getting stabbed made no sense -- she should have just escaped and killed the waif like she did tonight without last week happening. I don't think the bonding with Lady Crane was enough of a reason to have that happen -- too much willing suspension of disbelief.

I also don't understand what happened with Lady Crane standing on the stool and getting a potion to hand to some blonde guy -- was that a dream?

Bad casting with the guy who was hanged and who the hound stole his boots. He looks exactly like Theons uncle which some folks called out last week.

i do like the development of the hound joining the BoB.

I wonder if Maegary played a role in getting Tommen to cease trial by combat/

i wasn't in love with this episode.

Edited by SoWindsor
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1 minute ago, lmsweb said:

OH and why has nobody else mentioned we saw a penis this week? The Hound's penis, no less. Am  I the only shallow one who noticed it?

We also saw full nudity of some random male extras who were sitting down in that spa Arya accidentally ran through, I believe.

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1 minute ago, sunflower said:

Tyrion, not one but now two scenes of pointless, do I call that dialogue, with Grey Worm and the translator girl whose name I can't spell?  His story sucks man, I guess someone major had to go East to Join Dany, but, ugh on every level.  

If I were Peter Dinklage, I'd be frustrated with the lack of sharp dialogue and storyline. Tyrion is the great orator, and his skills have not been put to the test recently. 

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1 minute ago, lmsweb said:

OH and why has nobody else mentioned we saw a penis this week? The Hound's penis, no less. Am  I the only shallow one who noticed it?

I'm all penised out since every week seems to have a new penis joke. It's like a where's waldo game nowadays.

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Quote

Hey book readers -- I have a vague memory of Jamie threatening to hurl Edmure's son over the battlements and that the threat worked.  Is that right?  Are we back on book for a while?  Did the Blackfish die in the book?  (It's been too long for me.)

But in the book Jaime's threat to Edmure was a bluff - his POV makes that very clear - he was determined to end the siege without blood shed.  He was also estranged from Cersei by then, so we didn't have to deal with any of these nauseating declarations of love for Cersei. 

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9 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

I'm rewatching it right now. I'm holding out hope for the Blackfish. That Tully guard he ordered NOT to let Edmure in looked thoroughly disgusted that as soon as he let Edmure in, Edmure promptly handed the castle over to the Lannisters/Freys. And that same guard is the same who ordered the men to find the Blackfish. Wouldn't take much to have the Blackfish quietly escape, although I haven't worked out in my head yet what they'd do if asked to present a dead body.

Going cracky here: the Lannister soldier who reports back to Jamie is a Tully and he tells Jamie the BF died fighting, when ask to see the body it's

floats out the gate, no body found; somewhat like the book.

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2 minutes ago, Black Knight said:

But on the TV show, Loras does stand accused, and why would Margaery allow the canceling of his own trial by combat? He doesn't have any chance with a trial by septons given the evidence against him

I'm still hanging on to an unexplained cryptic comment from Littlefinger to Olenna back in season 5 -- he said he'd give her the same gift he gave Cercei, a handsome young man.  I always assumed that was Olyvar,  the male prostitute that Loras was banging.  He'll show up at Loras's trial and recant his testimony, thus freeing Loras.

1 minute ago, SoWindsor said:

I also don't understand what happened with her standing on the stool and getting a potion to hand to some blonde guy -- was that a dream?

No idea what the potion was, but the blond guy was the Waif in disguise.  Lady Crane was getting the potion for some reason, then turned around and was surprised to see the blond guy (the fellow mummer who plays Joffrey I think).

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12 minutes ago, lmsweb said:

Wouldn't take much to have the Blackfish quietly escape, although I haven't worked out in my head yet what they'd do if asked to present a dead body.

I would have more hope for this if he hadn't just made a speech about how he's not running again. Maybe he's hanging out in the basement getting ready to play the Ghost of Riverrun? 

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3 minutes ago, Moon Martini said:

If I were Peter Dinklage, I'd be frustrated with the lack of sharp dialogue and storyline. Tyrion is the great orator, and his skills have not been put to the test recently. 

Dinklage hasn't been given anything this season.  Meereen has been a death knell for the character creatively just like it has been in the books.  I'm sure thought that Dinklage will received another inexplicable Emmy nomination since Emmy voters seemingly choose nominees every year by looking for previous winners and nominees and nominating them over and over and over again.

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(edited)
5 minutes ago, mac123x said:

I'm still hanging on to an unexplained cryptic comment from Littlefinger to Olenna back in season 5 -- he said he'd give her the same gift he gave Cercei, a handsome young man.  I always assumed that was Olyvar,  the male prostitute that Loras was banging.  He'll show up at Loras's trial and recant his testimony, thus freeing Loras.

That sounds like it would be really hard. Based on what happened to Margaery, wouldn't Olyvar know damn well that if he "admits" that he lied while being questioned by the High Sparrow, as Margaery did, that he'll be locked up for indefinitely long? It would be hard to find something to hold over Olyvar's head that would have a worse consequence than that, so how would Littlefinger convince him to do it?

Edited by Anisky
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1 minute ago, benteen said:

Dinklage hasn't been given anything this season.  Meereen has been a death knell for the character creatively just like it has been in the books.  I'm sure thought that Dinklage will received another inexplicable Emmy nomination since Emmy voters seemingly choose nominees every year by looking for previous winners and nominees and nominating them over and over and over again.

Yeah he's been given nothing really and losing Varys now doesn't help.  I'll be the unpopular person here and say I didn't mind the jokes scene that went on for Tarantino lengths.  Only because in this world of misery it was nice to see three characters laugh and enjoy ones company for a moment, which didn't last.

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(edited)
1 hour ago, Oscirus said:

Damn Tyrion screwed up, big time. I don't see Dany taking his advice anytime soon.

I have a feeling that Arya will be returning to the faceless men in the near future.

Good job, Jamie. The Jamie Brienne reunion was dare I say it? Sweet.

Tommen, you're an idiot. See how far you'll get listen to the Sparrow.

All that hound hype up and that's what we get?

What's with all these off screen deaths? Are they trying to save money or something?

 No chance of that. People have been waiting for two seasons for her to get back to Westeros. Fans would riot if she went back to the FM. It would be like Dany sailing for Westeros and then turning around because she decided to try ruling Meereen again

Edited by J----av
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3 minutes ago, Anisky said:

That sounds like it would be really hard. Based on what happened to Margaery, wouldn't Olyvar know damn well that if he "admits" that he lied while being questioned by the High Sparrow, as Margaery did, that he'll be locked up for indefinitely long? It would be hard to find something to hold over Olyvar's head that would have a worse consequence than that, so how would Littlefinger convince him to do it?

From the books at least, we know Littlefinger (or his minions) are good at convincing people to do things even though the results are not in their own best interests.  Marrilion confessed to killing Lysa even though it meant his life.  Jeyne Poole was convinced to pretend to be Arya.  Though I would buy that the Faith wouldn't fall for an obviously-tortured recantation.  Loras's trial might be mooted by the heavily foreshadowed wildfire asplosion in the future.

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Just now, J----av said:

 No chance of that. People have been waiting for two seasons for her to get back to Westeros. Fans would riot if she went back to the FM. It would be like Dany sailing for Westeros and then turning around because she decided to try ruling Meereen

Remind me why we didn't riot?

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(edited)
1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Also:  Brienne knows that Oathkeeper was forged from Ice, the Stark family sword, and that it is a Valyrian steel blade at a time when those blades are rather vital to the War for the Dawn, and she was about to give it back to the Lannisters?  The hell?

She didn't give it back to "the Lannisters;" she tried to return it (likely spur of the moment) to Jaime, which completely worked as a character beat for someone whose central conflict is clearly her vows to Catelyn/Lady Sansa vs. whatever she feels for him and the actual nature of honor.  It seems kind of obvious to me that NotDead!Blackfish will be filling the LSH role in setting Brienne up through appeals to her honor and threats to Pod to set Jaime up.

Edited by Greta
to strikethrough likely, because IMO it was absolutely spontaneous. Great acting by GC, BTW.
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Jaqen's comment about Arya finally being No One also caught me off guard. But I think maybe the logic was supposed to be that if the Many Faced God "allowed" Arya to best his true devotee The Waif, then there is a reason and Jaqen should not interfere with the MFG's will or at least the death 'balance'. Sort of a lesser version of the reasoning we heard this same episode about why Dondarrion thinks The Hound can be redeemed (and why the BWB itself is meant to fight for light instead of getting caught up in the lords' wars).

I'm not sure, though. One of my hesitations is that I never got the sense before that the Many Faced God was a particularly interventionist god, even in the eyes of his true believers. For having spent two seasons with them, we know pretty little about the actual deity.

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I haven't hated the Arya plot (but can agree it's been going on a bit too long). Prefer to see someone get really hardened over, yes, years than become an insta-badass, such as on a CW show. 

But ...

Jaqen's smile and nod to Arya at the end didn't sit well with me. He didn't seem like he was fucking around before, or that their training had this "wink-nudge" aspect to it, like "I'm going to invest all this time and training into you, but I'm secretly cheering on your eventual rebellion!"

And the Waif wasn't quite right either. She used I/me pronouns, and she clearly had ego invested in killing Arya. How is that faceless/selfless? Or are we perhaps meant to believe Jaqen set the whole thing up including the death of the Waif, who did in fact suck at assassination?

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(edited)
6 minutes ago, Anisky said:

Remind me why we didn't riot?

Because we're so darn civilized.  Also, my torches and pitchfork are at the repair shop.

Edited by mac123x
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1 hour ago, sumiregusa said:

Well once again I gave the writers of this show a little too much credit. The Jaqen = Arya plot was apparently too clever an idea for them. 

Episode 8 last season gave us "Hardhome" and last season was terrible. This definitely was not even that. 

 That would make even less sense then what they did.

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10 minutes ago, Anisky said:

Remind me why we didn't riot?

Because Westeros is kind of in disrepair with no actual factions to fight her for the Iron Throne anymore and we recognize that Dany has to cool her heels while the North pulls something together so they can have the epic battle with dragons flying over KL scene.  And even then we have the problem that Jon is going to be all 'I just want to take back Winterfell and save Westeros form White Walkers.  You idiot Southerns play your stupid political games and fight your wars for the Throne.  Not interested."

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In the interval between putting the waif face on the wall and Jaquen discovering it, Arya found a magic cure that repaired her broken stitches and included the non-drowsy version of "Milk of the Oxy" because she walked out like nothing happened.

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