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BIP 3: Spoilers and Speculation

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I had been hoping that Amanda and Evan would end up together and could have a natural Brady Bunch-esque spinoff.

Hoping Wells does not end up with anyone because he deserves better than anything this show has to offer (though his going on to start with makes me wonder ... but the hopeful optimistic "clap three times if you believe in fairies!" part hopes it's to keep him in the spotlight just enough to make him the next Bachelor).

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Is there a cast list somewhere online?  We have dribs and drabs here but not just a straight forward list. 

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1 hour ago, wings707 said:

Is there a cast list somewhere online?  We have dribs and drabs here but not just a straight forward list. 

 

Not yet.  Reality steve will probably release his spoilers soon that will have all the names and who went on what date with whom.  My guess he'll do so on Tuesday since there is no bachelorette episode on Monday night due to the holiday.

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14 hours ago, wings707 said:

Is there a cast list somewhere online?  We have dribs and drabs here but not just a straight forward list. 

Most of them here:

http://realitysteve.com/2016/06/21/the-bachelorette-jojo-spoilers-episode-5-recap/

The randoms he mentions are revealed here:

http://realitysteve.com/2016/06/28/the-bachelorette-jojo-spoilers-episode-6-recap-bach-in-paradise-spoilers/2/

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That's hilarious.  Grant is certainly getting his feet held to the fire by plenty of women. But women who do those duck-faces act like idiots anyway, so it's no huge surprise they sometimes get screwed over.  Only cheaters deserve cheaters, but deliberate stupidity should never be rewarded, especially by grown adults.

And of course his relationship with Lace is a sham, but it will be fun to watch them pretend to fall for each other!  

Edited by leighdear
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Reality Steve is up with is episode spoilers.

Main points:

1. On their way out in episode 4, the Vegas twins warn Amanda about Josh;  he hears about it, and blows up at the house, mainly Nick.   How Amanda could accept a ring from him after that, who knows.  RS says it won't be a good look for Josh at all.

2. Jen & Nick break up after the fantasy suite but seem to be on good terms in real life.

3. Lauren H was interested in one of the random guys, Ryan Beckett from Kaitlyn's season, but they were never on the show at the same time so they are now sorta seeing each other in real life

4. Wells dumps Ashley I before fantasy suites but they are on good terms in real life so she'll probably be after him for awhile on the reject circuit

5. Caila leaves in episode 5 cause the show isn't for her and Jared follows her;  he wants something in real life but she doesn't seem to be into him all that much

6. Leah arrived late during episode 1 with the purpose to "date" Chad but he was already kicked off; I think they might have since hooked up in real life.

7.  Grant & Lace got matching tattoos that say "Grace", their name combo.  Yeah, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.

 

I don't know if I'm reading this wrong or not but it seems like the couple that ends up together that seems the most "normal" is Carly & Evan!!!

Help, I need an intervention after typing that!

Edited by CindyBee · Reason: cause I know its accept not except
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1 hour ago, CindyBee said:

7.  Grant & Lace got matching tattoos that say "Grace", their name combo.  Yeah, I just threw up in my mouth a bit.

At least it's a generic word, so when if they break up, they can each give it a different meaning. It's not "Winona 4Ever".

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Didn't the twins both have nasty little tattle-tale habits on Ben's season?  Getting all shrieky and snotty about other people and gossiping about everything?  So "warning" Amanda about Josh is interesting.  2 girls who have never been married and still live at home with mommy are warning Amanda?  This distresses me that he blows up, because I'm still a Josh fan (despite what Andi wrote) and I've been really impressed with his behavior on "Famously Single" thus far.  I'm hoping it's not as bad as it sounds, though no surprise Nick is involved. 

I do have to wonder if maybe Nick & Josh are real-life just fine with each other.  They go combatant on camera just because the producers want some drama.    

Good for Lauren H. bagging Ryan Beckett.  He's a damn fine looking man and seems pretty accomplished.  

Edited by leighdear
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15 hours ago, Canada said:

I wonder if Jen and Nick did Married Things in the Fantasy Suite?

Thanks for bringing that up. I took a break from vomiting to type this.

On 7/11/2016 at 1:37 PM, CindyBee said:

I don't know if I'm reading this wrong or not but it seems like the couple that ends up together that seems the most "normal" is Carly & Evan!!!

Carly is insanely desperate to stay (or become) relevant, to prove she's over Kirk, to become a Bachelor "power couple." She would have gotten engaged to a plastic snowman.

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What about Sarah H's supposed "secret mission?" I'm 90% sure being dumped by Daniel isn't the plot of a LeCarre novel.

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10 hours ago, Bugs Meany said:

Carly is insanely desperate to stay (or become) relevant, to prove she's over Kirk, to become a Bachelor "power couple." She would have gotten engaged to a plastic snowman.

A plastic snowman is a more attractive option than Evan, IMO. It doesn't get nosebleeds or whine about its shirt getting ripped.

How funny is it that Nick Vile gets dumped after the FS for the third time?

Edited by chocolatine
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7 hours ago, chocolatine said:

How funny is it that Nick Vile gets dumped after the FS for the third time?

I hate to admit this, but I do buy that it was a mutual decision, given the opposite-coasts thing. The very first thing she did upon resurfacing on Instagram was to follow him. She's liked everything he's posted since then, and she's even gone back and liked his posts from a couple of months ago. Those aren't the actions of someone who just dumped a guy.

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One bit of information from RS latest blog is that Nick was the one who dumped Jen.    Since she still seems to "like" him on social media, I guess she wasn't too distraught.  

Oh, the other thing RS brought up is that after Chad leaves early on, Josh is the guy everyone dislikes.

So I guess it will be the Chad show in episode 1, then Josh vs Nick in episode 2 and everyone vs. Josh in Episodes 3, 4, 5 and 6. 

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Did they have a pool at the resort last season?  I don't remember a pool, but it's shown on the promos for this season.  Was it where George the bartender had his little tropical bar shack?  

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I just laughed out loud after watching the new promo:

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/bachelor-in-paradise-preview-hookups-and-horror-143533245.html

The look on Amanda's face when she hears Evan tell her that he only came to Paradise to meet her is just PERFECT!!   And lordy, how does that make his finance feel.  But like Bugs Meany said, Carly was getting engaged no matter what so no big deal if she wasn't Evan's first choice!

Is it August 2nd yet!!?!?

 

Edited to add that yes there was a pool last year.  I remember Janner saying in some post show interview that they spent most of their time there, either swimming or playing pool volleyball.   

Edited by CindyBee
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I know there was a hot tub because that's where Sam jerked off that Ugky Kevin Bacon looking guy.    I'm sorry I had to say that. 

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Really good misdirection promo.  They didn't show Josh Murray a single time, just showed Amanda and her initial flirtation with Nick.  Lots of folks I didn't even recognize.  

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I am curious to see how the Josh/Amanda relationship plays out. I recently watched a few episodes of 'Famously Single' and if anything, Josh seems like the type of guy who is very picky with his women. He's not looking for anything less than a 10. That adds up to what Andi accuses him of in the book too (it seems like her FS time with Nick ruined his ideal image of her as his future wife, and he just couldn't get past it). So I just don't see Josh settling down with a woman who has two kids from another relationship, no matter how pretty or sweet, because it doesn't square with the kind of woman that he seems to be looking for.

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2 women on "Famously Single", Brandi and Aubrey, constantly say Josh is picky, because he doesn't hit on them. Sour grapes from 2 huge famewhores who aren't getting their asses kissed by Josh Murray.  The therapist has actually said that his problem is not that he expects every woman to physically be a 10, but that he sees every one he dates as having to be THE one.  Attractive, intelligent, accomplished and ready to be married & have kids immediately.  That's the key. She said he doesn't want to date, he wants to be married with children. 

I've watched all the episodes, so that's just what's happened thus far.  

Amanda actually makes sense, as she's beautiful, has her own business and wants a husband and daddy for her girls.  Plus she's definitely a girly-girl and young enough to have more kids.   

Edited by leighdear
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10 hours ago, lavenderpenguin said:

I am curious to see how the Josh/Amanda relationship plays out. I recently watched a few episodes of 'Famously Single' and if anything, Josh seems like the type of guy who is very picky with his women. He's not looking for anything less than a 10. That adds up to what Andi accuses him of in the book too (it seems like her FS time with Nick ruined his ideal image of her as his future wife, and he just couldn't get past it). So I just don't see Josh settling down with a woman who has two kids from another relationship, no matter how pretty or sweet, because it doesn't square with the kind of woman that he seems to be looking for.

I agree. I always felt like there were red flags about Josh during Andi's season. First it was the "I haven't dated anyone in five years" that I always called bullshit on. Then after the season when he revealed that he'd never had a girlfriend period, I thought, "nope, something is up with that guy." I also thought he was very good at selling lines and what seemed like the perfect thing to say, all the while, I could sense that there was some underlying anger/controlling thing about him. 

Putting all that aside, this so called engagement with Amanda is laughable in my opinion and I side eye the hell out of her too. Wasn't Amanda only a year or less out of her marriage when she appeared on Ben's season? So in the space of less than six months or however long it's been, she's "fallen" for Ben and now is in love with Josh enough to marry him? Not to mention, wasn't she the one saying to Ben that she rushed into her first marriage and learned a lot from that? Well okay then.

I accept all of these people and their famewhoring that apparently makes them think they suddenly can't date anyone who hasn't been on this franchise but while I can just hand wave the nonsense with the people who are single, no children, attachments, etc. I am sorry, yes I am judging a woman with two small children rushing into some fake engagement with a guy she knew for all of what, 12 days? Like are you serious?

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I thought it was a great promo too, with no sign of Josh.  So all the casual watchers are going to be shocked when he shows up in Episode 2 and romances Amanda away from Nick.   Great story line to make up for the early departure of Chad.

And was that Jubilee Evan was making out with??  So he went from being there for only Amanda, swapping spit with Jubilee and then getting with Carly?!?  That's going to be a good story line too. 

All three "engagements" are silly but since pretty much the entire audience watches for the snark factor, I don't think it really matters that its all fake, fake, fake.  

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I don't care that the engagements are fake because I never take any of this franchise seriously. There has been at best maybe two couples I liked and rooted for but for the most part, I view this whole franchise as the farce that it is. But that's why I side-eye Amanda, a woman with two children under the age of 5. I'm sure the allure of easy money and famewhoring is very tempting but seriously? And yet she'll come on these shows trashing her ex-husband. And maybe he was a really awful husband and father, but so far he's not the one who's going on around famewhoring on some lame reality shows and getting fake engaged to someone after like ten days. 

Speaking of the ex, it's funny she and Nick had a date because he was slightly critical of her on Afterbuzz (though he did seem to like her well enough, just critical of this one thing) during Ben's season, with regard to her comments about her ex-husband. Nick's position was that it was sort of unfair to blast the guy on national television when one, there are always two sides to every story and two, her ex did not sign up for a reality show and now because of her comments, a bunch of Bachelor Nation fans were calling him a deadbeat and criticizing him when they didn't know him and only had Amanda's version of what happened to to go by. I actually thought Nick made a fair point, especially, as he added that this was the father of her children so she was trashing their father on national television.

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4 hours ago, CindyBee said:

All three "engagements" are silly but since pretty much the entire audience watches for the snark factor, I don't think it really matters that its all fake, fake, fake.  

Exactly!  The perceptions of the desired endings have now changed.  

It's no longer "Wow, I don't know this person well enough to be engaged", but is now "Cool, I can extend my 15 minutes of fame & boost my brand with a fake engagement!"   It really doesn't matter who the other person is.  They are the means to an end. 

We've seen that there is NO penalty for a broken engagement. If anything, it garners additional attention and sympathy!

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Like I noted in another thread, admittedly I'm a cynical watcher of this show and always have been. I'm not heartless though and if people genuinely find love, I'm happy for them, like I was for Ashley and JP and Chris and Des. That said, I am always baffled by people who season after season, show after show genuinely buy into some of these relationships. Like I cannot believe some are genuinely shipping Josh and Amanda and talking about not being able to wait to see their love story play out.

Um, they got engaged after like ten days. This woman already has one divorce under her belt and two kids under the age of five. Josh has had one broken engagement from this franchise. Again...what? Like believe in love all you want but that's just straight up delusional in my opinion if anyone thinks this will not end in disaster. And if I turn out to be wrong, I'll admit it and gladly eat my humble pie. Doubt I will be though...

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I understand why parents are judged more harshly for participation, but it's never bothered me much because the production period is so short.  It's a month, at the most? I've yet to hear that someone's children weren't cared for while filming, so until that day comes, my level of judgment for all of these people is about the same.  If you sign up for this show, you're at minimum, attention-seeking, and at max, a raving famewhore.  Even if you're on the show to promote a business, I imagine that's pretty short-lived these days. Maybe there are all of these success stories of entrepreneurs who went on to grow their businesses exponentially post-Bachelor, and I missed it. 

Maybe you get a pass for showing up on original recipe once, and going back to obscurity. But if you're on this show, you're well beyond that. You want to be on TV, and mostly like your "business" is entertainment. That's why I was scratching my head with all of the "Wells is too good for the show/for JoJo" stuff from this Bachelorette season.  Nah, he wants to be on TV just like the rest of 'em.

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Wells has been in radio for years, so it's been obvious from his job choice that he likes media and the attention.  He may have been auditioning for this show for a couple of years, but just never got picked before for some reason.  His looks put him squarely in the center section, friend-zone.  His lasting as long as he did was serendipity, to my mind. 

39 minutes ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

Maybe you get a pass for showing up on original recipe once, and going back to obscurity. 

Lots of people have resumed normal lives, but I agree it's becoming the exception rather than the rule.  I go back to all the shrieking about how Britt from Chris's season was such a huge, fake fame chaser and only wanted to be in the limelight.  She's WAY below the radar now.  

Many in the age group we see now on the show want the accolades, money and fame for just existing, playing on social media and looking pretty.  It's bizarre. 

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On July 26, 2016 at 11:30 PM, leighdear said:

2 women on "Famously Single", Brandi and Aubrey, constantly say Josh is picky, because he doesn't hit on them. Sour grapes from 2 huge famewhores who aren't getting their asses kissed by Josh Murray.  The therapist has actually said that his problem is not that he expects every woman to physically be a 10, but that he sees every one he dates as having to be THE one.  Attractive, intelligent, accomplished and ready to be married & have kids immediately.  That's the key. She said he doesn't want to date, he wants to be married with children. 

I've watched all the episodes, so that's just what's happened thus far.  

Amanda actually makes sense, as she's beautiful, has her own business and wants a husband and daddy for her girls.  Plus she's definitely a girly-girl and young enough to have more kids.   

I'm not basing my perception *just* on what Aubrey/Brandi have said, but also his behavior -- one episode, when they were coaching each other and going on blind dates, he immediately asked whether it would be someone who he'd be attracted to. Another episode, when they went on the "blind" mixer, he initially picked one girl (the same one that Calum picked first), and it was clear that once he saw her, he wasn't interested (even though Calum offered her to him, after he said that she was his first pick) and choose his second choice instead. 

I also think of a "10" as being more than just the outer appearance -- it's about an entire package (as you said: beautiful, intelligent, kind, etc). And I think that's where Josh gets tripped up (the whole needing to see the woman he's dating as "the one" seems like a more complicated way of saying that he doesn't want to waste time with anyone he doesn't meet his wife standards).

I don't doubt that Josh might want to be married with children, but does he want to be married and taking care of someone else's kids? Those are two very different scenarios. Going off what I've seen of his personality (seems fairly traditional, "proper" -- I don't see these as necessarily bad qualities, to be clear) and what Andi has said about him (not being able to get over the idea of Andi being intimate with another man), I have A LOT of trouble believing that Amanda (single mom, broken marriage, two kids in tow, not professionally impressive) is his idea of a total package. 

It might just be me, but I think what Josh wants is similar to Andi superficially (beautiful, smart, no baggage) but more conservative, less attitude/no temper, and more into traditional with gender roles.

Edited by lavenderpenguin
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9 hours ago, leighdear said:

Wells has been in radio for years, so it's been obvious from his job choice that he likes media and the attention.  He may have been auditioning for this show for a couple of years, but just never got picked before for some reason.  His looks put him squarely in the center section, friend-zone.  His lasting as long as he did was serendipity, to my mind. 

Lots of people have resumed normal lives, but I agree it's becoming the exception rather than the rule.  I go back to all the shrieking about how Britt from Chris's season was such a huge, fake fame chaser and only wanted to be in the limelight.  She's WAY below the radar now.  

Many in the age group we see now on the show want the accolades, money and fame for just existing, playing on social media and looking pretty.  It's bizarre. 

It is so ironic to me that Carly, the one thoroughly convinced of how fake and insincere Britt was being, is now the one with three Bachelor appearances (Bachelor, BIP2, and now BIP3) under her belt, and Britt has faded away into relative obscurity. 

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1 hour ago, lavenderpenguin said:

I have A LOT of trouble believing that Amanda (single mom, broken marriage, two kids in tow, not professionally impressive) is his idea of a total package. 

I think the fact that Nick Vile was trying to romance Amanda before Josh showed up played a huge role. Josh seems to have a big ego, and I'm sure it gave him a kick to "win" over Nick again, so he might have gotten carried away and glossed over Amanda's "shortcomings".

Edited by chocolatine
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11 hours ago, leighdear said:

Lots of people have resumed normal lives, but I agree it's becoming the exception rather than the rule.  

You're right. I was thinking of the more high-profile original recipe participants vs someone who is eliminated within the first few episodes with little screentime. Ultimately, being a parent vs child-free and signing up for BiP doesn't make much difference for me. Plus, it kind of bugs me that mothers seem to be more heavily criticized than fathers in this regard.    

2 hours ago, lavenderpenguin said:

It is so ironic to me that Carly, the one thoroughly convinced of how fake and insincere Britt was being, is now the one with three Bachelor appearances (Bachelor, BIP2, and now BIP3) under her belt, and Britt has faded away into relative obscurity. 

I barely watched Farmer Chris' season, but god almighty, Carly annoyed me immensely on this show.  Some are more desperate than others, and could she BE anymore desperate?  

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11 hours ago, ribboninthesky1 said:

I barely watched Farmer Chris' season, but god almighty, Carly annoyed me immensely on this show.  Some are more desperate than others, and could she BE anymore desperate?  

I guess we'll find out soon! :)

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On July 28, 2016 at 11:30 PM, chocolatine said:

I think the fact that Nick Vile was trying to romance Amanda before Josh showed up played a huge role. Josh seems to have a big ego, and I'm sure it gave him a kick to "win" over Nick again, so he might have gotten carried away and glossed over Amanda's "shortcomings".

Yes, perhaps. Although, I wonder if they might now get along better since they've both been trash-talked by Andi at this point.

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I don't know about get along better, but more like indifferent to each other. Also, from what I've read online, Nick is actually not the one really talking crap about Josh but he just assumes it's him based on their history and well who are we kidding, the producers egging it, also based on their history. 

It's always amused me how much the guys - first Josh and then Shawn, hated Nick when the women who professed to love them so much gladly gave up the goodies to Nick and in Kaitlyn's case, more than once. But Nick was the bad guy. Well I guess it's no different than a woman hating the "other woman" when their boyfriend/husband cheats. 

The situation with Jen should be a nice change since it doesn't sound like there was anyone else in the equation and again good for them for accepting the situation for what it was - a nice tropical vacation hookup that they can remain friendly after it was over. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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Tonight is the night!  Make sure you're caught up on all your vaccinations, get out the gallons of hand sanitizer and antibiotics, grab a fresh box of wine and settle in for the 3rd round of this crazy train!  

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I'm sooooo ready for tonight's show.   I'm so ready, I changed my movie plans with some girlfriends to Thursday night.

One of twins (Haley) gave an interview where she said that she was interested in meeting Chad but it turned out all so bad so him getting out of control drunk tonight sounds like its a real mess. 

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Well, it was even worse than the previews showed.  And what the hell give that cross-eyed freak Daniel the idea that he's even marginally attractive?  He's as disgusting a human as his buddy Chad.  I was disappointed tonight was a "to be continued", because I wanted to see Chad gone. 

Leah from Ben's season comes in next, and she & Jubilee get booted.  Since Jared gives his rose to twin Emily, he obviously wasn't too impressed with Jubilee.  

Unfortunately Daniel the dickhead doesn't get ousted until episode 4.  He makes me sick. 

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Yeah I found Daniel sorta amusing on JoJo's season but last night he was gawd awful.    And then he gets involved in the Ashley/Jared/Caila drama in episode 3 so he'll be getting some more airtime but hopefully its not too much.   

I know you are a fan of Josh's Leighdear but just from the snippet last night, it seems that TPTB are going to go all in on a evil edit for him.   Or at least show him in an unfavorable light, leading up to his winning the girl and getting engaged.  At least Jen coming in Episode 3 gives Nick an out.  

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I know you are a fan of Josh's Leighdear but just from the snippet last night, it seems that TPTB are going to go all in on a evil edit for him.   Or at least show him in an unfavorable light, leading up to his winning the girl and getting engaged.

They definitely made it seem like he zeroed in on Amanda specifically because he knew Nick had had a date with her and then the whole, "we had an amazing time on our date" comment to Nick, like some sort of shade throwing was also not a great look. If anything, I'm wondering if they're going to frame it like Josh is still so bitter at the fact that despite supposedly "winning" the girl the last time, Nick still slept with her. So "stealing" Amanda is like some kind of win. All of which makes all these people kind of pathetic in my opinion. 

In any case, I'm sure the editors played stuff up in the previews, especially for people not spoiled, so it will seem like some big triangle happens between the three, which is not the case. It's why they've been careful in how they show shots of Nick and Jennifer and the misdirection of him saying "I love her", after mentioning Amanda's attributes, which is clearly not him talking about Amanda. 

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According to RS, Josh went at Nick for no reason and will be the villain of this season. Good news for TPTB since Chad left

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Looks like the TPTB had plenty of story lines to carry the show after Chad crashed and burned:

1. Josh vs Nick round 2 plus the twins calling Josh out on their way out the door

2. Ashley/Jared/Caila love triangle

3. Grant and Lace  being an epic trainwreck and then still getting engaged

4. Will Wells take Ashley to the fantasy suite?

5. Vinny losing his mind over Izzy

6. Carly getting engaged to her plastic snowman, Evan

 

Going to be great!

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It looks fairly obvious that Josh is going to be the villain, but it makes sense, even with it culminating in him getting engaged to Amanda.  Josh bested Nick in round 1 with Andi, then Nick got humiliated again with Kaitlyn, so it looks like they're going to let him have a shred of dignity.  As a 3 time loser on these shows, that's pretty merciful.  That's why they'll give Sarah a sympathetic edit and why Carly claimed Evan.  I can't imagine anybody really wants to be the new Bukowski.  

I'll be satisfied once Chad is gone.   The "to be continued" at the apex of a chad tantrum was amusing on JoJo's season, but it's such a waste of time on this show.  

Edited by leighdear
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Why would the show have to make Josh a villain to let Nick have a shred of dignity? Especially since Josh still gets the big engagement at the end of the season, and so some are still going to watch and say, "Josh stole another girl from Nick". It won't matter that Nick and Amanda had one date and Nick moves on with Jennifer. That's how most people who hate Nick will read the situation. Hell he is being called a "3-time loser" because of it. Even though personally I don't see "desperate for a new daddy for my kids who already have a father" Amanda as a great prize or win but that's just me. 

So maybe Josh is edited as the villain because what the producers had to work with is that unlike his first franchise experience, most of the cast wasn't buying his blinding white smile and bullshit persona and called it out. The producers are manipulative but they also work with what they get. Josh was there for the quick pay, like everyone else and to rehab his image after Andi's book and their split and it didn't work when he went all rage roidey after getting called out by others for being fake. But no worries, because he proposes to the mother of two at the end and will sell that happy engaged image for a bit that some will actually buy. So I'm sure it'll be fine for him at the end of the season. Well until that engagement also blows up.

Edited by truthaboutluv
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On ‎7‎/‎17‎/‎2016 at 5:59 AM, Knevz said:

I like Evan & Carly. They will be so good together!

I have no problem with these two either. Evan seems to be more reviled by some people than Chad. I don't get it. He's not ugly, he doesn't strike me as a horrible person, and he owns his own business that provides a great service to men. He's not my type, but he's not some low, disgusting creature.

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3 minutes ago, comosedice said:

I have no problem with these two either. Evan seems to be more reviled by some people than Chad. I don't get it. He's not ugly, he doesn't strike me as a horrible person, and he owns his own business that provides a great service to men. He's not my type, but he's not some low, disgusting creature.

I'm slooooowwly coming around to Evan.  Guess I need to see him in action with Chad long gone to make up mind what I really think of him.  And unlike Amanda, at least he didn't go around saying "I'm here to find a mother for my boys" cause he knows that they have a mother so I'll give him a plus for that.

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Evan just gives off a weasel vibe to me.  The tattletale squealer that's always going to rat out other people.  And it's not even his looks.  Like Wells, he comes off to me as superior and above all the common behavior of the other guys, in addition to immature and desperate to be accepted.  

Vinny however, I am definitely warming up too.  I loved what Reality Steve tweeted about he & Izzy having the best names mashup: Vizzy or Inny!  

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