S01.E06: Entree-vous

[OnceSane]

New charter guests come aboard to celebrate their seventh-month dating anniversary, and the crew must provide the romantic trip of their lives.  Ben takes Hannah on a date, but a major galley miscommunication during the guests' dinner could tarnish any romantic hope for the two.  And, when a nearby vessel begins to sink, the Ionian Princess crew has to spring into action to help save it.

[bosawks]

I finally figured out Bryan is the love child of Malcolm Gets and the muppet Beaker.

[mbaywife123]

Bryan is a nasty drunk. Good on Tiff for giving him the get lost loser cold shoulder.

The sos with the sinking ship was probably the most real thing shown on reality show for awhile.

Knowing Ben (the primadonna chef) Hannah should have worked the situation to her favor ala: "OMG Ben I thought there was another course to serve (flutter lashes), please save me". He would have been cooking those already made kabobs quicker than she could have returned to the guests to announce the arrival of them for the main course.

[JoJoPowerRanger]

Loving this connoisseur referring to them as eXpresso martinis.  It's a common mispronunciation that I never judge in real life, but dang, if the charter guest is going to get all up in someone's grill about how to make it I would at least expect that he say it correctly. 

[HunterHunted]

Bryan is an SAE. That explains my instant dislike of him. And like the drunken fratty douchecanoe that he is, he gets angry and resentful when Tiffany doesn't want to bang his sloppy slurring ass. He does play obvious favorites with Bobby, but I'm never going to side with Danny in this argument because he cannot see how accompanying the guest while they go cliff jumping is very different from making out with the guests and writing the guests poems. Very different things.

You would think that after having experienced the Rocky dinner debacle the guests would be very explicit about their dietary issues and needs.

In the first two episodes, the captain and Ben asked Hannah if she did menus and she said she didn't. The captain even asked her if she could find some stationary for menus. This mess is on Hannah. She's been pretty blasé about menus and it's bit her every time, like when she described moussaka as beef and vegetables. Considering how important food is on a charter, you would think Hannah would be paying more attention to it. Kate was completely all over the food and wine pairings.

The 7 month anniversary celebration was foolishness.

That boat taking on water was heartbreaking. That's a lot of potential money lost.

I don't know if Julia is flirtier with Bobby than with anyone else, but Bobby needs to chill. Right now, she's coming across like a flirty girl who is a little uncomfortable with Bobby reciprocating. Actually Julia needs to have one of the other girls let her know when her flirting with has passed the borders of innocent.

[beesknees]

OMG it's the Ryan Gosling family from last season's "Below Deck" (without the Ryan Gosling guy at that!).  I ditto the fact that it makes me thoroughly stabby that Hannah and the Primary Charter guest are pronouncing espresso "X-presso".  Yikes.  And while I'm nit-picking here I HATE the way Hannah pronounces salon as "saloon".  I want her to stop doing that.  Every time she mentions the saloon I am thinking of an 1800's western style-bar complete with tumbleweeds blowing down a dirt street and cowboys shooting the place up.  I don't get it.  Last episode the girls could not pronounce "bales of hay".  Are there no farms in Australia or the English countryside?

I agree that the 7 month Anniversary is gaggingly obnoxious.

Edited June 8, 2016 by beesknees

[sasha206]

14 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Bryan is an SAE. That explains my instant dislike of him. And like the drunken fratty douchecanoe that he is, he gets angry and resentful when Tiffany doesn't want to bang his sloppy slurring ass. He does play obvious favorites with Bobby, but I'm never going to side with Danny in this argument because he cannot see how accompanying the guest while they go cliff jumping is very different from making out with the guests and writing the guests poems. Very different things.

Bryan gave me Stanford swimmer raping vibes.  Nasty drunk, disrespectful of women.  That scene was seriously disturbing to me.  Danny was creepy in a completely different way but Bryan might have even been creepier.  I can't even imagine what might have happened if cameras weren't there and if Tiffany had been in worse shape.  

It's disturbing to me the way he was talking to his underling about "banging" Tiffany and the way it played out.  I'm sure he'll excuse himself by saying he was just way too wasted, but he showed his ass righ there.   And his reaction the next day to that whole scene?  He clearly remembered enogh.   And wasn't the slightest bit remorseful about being a total dick.

Meanwhile, I don't even understand how it is possible to get the courses so wrong.  They're only serving a handful of people! 

[sasha206]

12 minutes ago, beesknees said:

I agree that the 7 month Anniversary is gaggingly obnoxious.

I missed the whole explanation of them celebrating their anniversary every month.  Does she basically never see him?  Sounds like they have a long-distance thing going on?  That *might* explain why a guy would go along with such tripe.  They'll be broken up in six months.

[breezy424]

Oh God.  That hot tub scene with Bryan and Tiff was sooo skeevy.  I didn't mind Bryan all that much but now he's on my list of truly repulsive people.  I don't care if he was drunk.  Just disgusting.

I like Julia but she needs to cut down on the flirting.  Borderline leading this guy on.

The whole 'course' thing between Ben and Hannah was very confusing.  I don't know who is right.  Offering the meat on the skewers was a good save.  Ben didn't need to get all hissy about it.  It's about the 'guests'.

Hardly any Danny.  YAY!

Hope the owner of the sinking yacht had insurance.  Fortunate for them that they were close to another boat and no one was in danger.  I thought it was cute that the guests put their life vests on.............

[TexasGal]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Bryan is an SAE. That explains my instant dislike of him. And like the drunken fratty douchecanoe that he is, he gets angry and resentful when Tiffany doesn't want to bang his sloppy slurring ass. He does play obvious favorites with Bobby, but I'm never going to side with Danny in this argument because he cannot see how accompanying the guest while they go cliff jumping is very different from making out with the guests and writing the guests poems. Very different things.

I had a flashback to my college days when he said he was an SAE.  My self-loathing bubbled up and, just as in college, I found myself disregarding all good sense and finding him cuter.  And then was not surprised when he crossed the line so completely with Tiffany.

[Misslindsey]

I was glad Tiff was in her right mind enough to not give into Bryan's drunken ramblings in the hot tub. He was a nasty drunk. I wonder how much he remembers, because he was slurring so bad. I did love the captioning for his slurring though! I did think he was trying to save face in an almost stereotypical guy fashion to Bobby the next morning.

While I do think Bryan is a mean drunk, I do not think he hates Jen. I just do not think his personality gels with hers. She is a bit more aloof than the rest of the crew, which is completely fine, but I think Bryan and Bobby have a pretty similar temperament. I do think Bryan and Jen got off on the wrong foot with the oversleeping nonsense. I do think Bryan liked Danny more before all the poem garbage went down. That seemed to be when Bryan and Bobby put the brakes on whatever friendship they had with Danny. So now I do think Bryan isn't a fan of Danny and almost rightfully so in my opinion. Danny has had some major screw-ups so I can see why Bryan might be on his ass. Though less Danny in this episode was a win in my book.

Not quite sure where the miscommunication between Hannah and Ben went down with how many course they were serving. I thought Hannh told Ben that it was up to him when they were talking about it the night before. Then when she suggested that they change the starters I did not know if that eliminated a course or what not.

I feel bad for the SOS boat, but I did like that it was actual real drama.

The seven month anniversary. Vomit. 

I do not really know if Julia is more flirty with Bobby than the others, because most of her scenes are with Hannah, Tiff, and Bobby. She seems to be a bubbly person in general. Bobby is definitely getting the wrong idea though.

[LotusFlower]

I think the dinner confusion all stemmed from too many meal descriptions - canapés, apps, starters, entrees, main courses....  What's the difference btwn. a app and a starter?  And didn't someone say that an entree in Europe is what we call an appetizer in the US?  I'm confused just typing this out...  

[KBrownie]

I explicitly heard Ben say  two when asked by Hannah how many courses there would be for that night.  I don't think she expressed that to the guests so she was all "oh shit" when the guests were speaking about saving room for the next course.  

Also, Ben asked her directly, several times no less, was something wrong and was there a mix up and she said no.  Then all of a sudden she's talking about serving the skewers.  Hannah was in total cover her own ass mode there.  I could see why Ben was pissed.  She tried to make it seem like the guests were requesting more food special when the whole thing seems to have been her error.  Ben gave her the chance to own up to it and she lied.  Then she tried to make it seem like the vocabulary (entree, appetizer) was the problem.

Julia said something in her TH when she was talking to her boyfriend about how what to do when someone is flirting with you as if she's totally innocent and not a willing participant in the flirting with Bobby.  Um . . . no sweetie.  

[ivygirl]

2 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Bryan gave me Stanford swimmer raping vibes.  Nasty drunk, disrespectful of women.  That scene was seriously disturbing to me.  Danny was creepy in a completely different way but Bryan might have even been creepier.  I can't even imagine what might have happened if cameras weren't there and if Tiffany had been in worse shape.  

It's disturbing to me the way he was talking to his underling about "banging" Tiffany and the way it played out.  I'm sure he'll excuse himself by saying he was just way too wasted, but he showed his ass righ there.   And his reaction the next day to that whole scene?  He clearly remembered enogh.   And wasn't the slightest bit remorseful about being a total dick.

Meanwhile, I don't even understand how it is possible to get the courses so wrong.  They're only serving a handful of people! 

I was just reading about the Stanford Raper and it totally cast a shadow over the first ten minutes of the show. Super creepy.

[Rebecca]

Yes, entree means appetizer in many places in Europe and elsewhere. It even means "entrance" in French, so it makes sense. I still think Hannah messed the whole situation up, not confusion over terminology.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Rebecca

[missy jo]

When Bryan said he was former SAE, viewers all over the country were like, "OH..." (Or at least I was.) 

He was disgusting when he was talking about her even before he was falling down drunk, so no. Not a gentleman. 

Those anniversary decorations were so tacky! They looked like they were done by some broke ass junior-prom committee. 

[Long Spot]

"Sit on my thumb"?  Really, Bryan?  You're surprised she turned THAT type of enchanting talk down? Gag.  Then making it seem like he was bored with her and told her to get lost?  Blech. Hope you are horrendously embarrassed at the reunion and now shunned by women for your behavior that evening, dude.  Jeebus.

Horray for very little Danny in this episode, though it looks like he's back at it next week.  

The primary guest...ick.  Just ick.  You look like a moron, big guy.  Enjoy your 15 minutes part deux.  Bet he makes people "screen" his episodes when they come to his house, and introduces himself as "from the show Below Deck".

The cock-up with dinner was confusing to me as well.  Can't quite figure out where things went so wrong, or why he had kababs all ready to fire if they'd changed the menu quite a bit beforehand.  I like Ben normally and he's usually pretty hard to truly rattle where his job is concerned, so am a bit surprised to see him tattling to the captain next week, especially considering the aforementioned pre-prepped kabobs.  Perhaps you guys are correct and it was the lying that set him off.

[Hagosaurus]

4 hours ago, sasha206 said:

Bryan gave me Stanford swimmer raping vibes.  Nasty drunk, disrespectful of women.  That scene was seriously disturbing to me.  Danny was creepy in a completely different way but Bryan might have even been creepier.  I can't even imagine what might have happened if cameras weren't there and if Tiffany had been in worse shape. 

I can.... He would have date-raped her until she drowned.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Hagosaurus
Bolding.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, Hagosaurus said:

I can.... He would have date-raped her until she drowned.

Or until he drowned. He was pretty fucking drunk. If the situation had been reversed, we'd be sitting here talking about Bryan being a decent guy for stopping the hook up when he realized Tiff was sloppy drunk and maybe couldn't consent. Bryan was stupid drunk. He gave a confessional/TH at the bar not five feet away from Tiffany. That's not how that is done, but his intoxicated lizard brain saw a camera in front of him and just started talking extemporaneously. Tiff shut the hook up down when she realized Bryan was a mess and then he was jerk.

[SFoster21]

49 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

Or until he drowned. He was pretty fucking drunk. If the situation had been reversed, we'd be sitting here talking about Bryan being a decent guy for stopping the hook up when he realized Tiff was sloppy drunk and maybe couldn't consent. Bryan was stupid drunk. He gave a confessional/TH at the bar not five feet away from Tiffany. That's not how that is done, but his intoxicated lizard brain saw a camera in front of him and just started talking extemporaneously. Tiff shut the hook up down when she realized Bryan was a mess and then he was jerk.

And funny-looking, to boot!

[pasdetrois]

Why do producers have guests return for a second charter? Surely they can find other knuckleheads who want to be on a yacht in the Mediterranean? Especially if production bears the costs. I don't get it.

Bryan's a creep. I'm so glad Tiffany got herself out of that nasty situation. I also don't like how he randomly "supervises" people while they are working. He's a character from Dilbert.

Why is Jen in so few scenes? Perhaps she refused to give the editors enough drama to work with.

I think Ben has a problem with strong women. He confronts them or passively-aggressively undermines them, then he turns on the charm and apologizes. I did have a laugh at his mad faces during the courses SNAFU. One could almost see the steam coming out of his ears. Hannah should have owned up to her confusion, which I think is what happened due to the constant change of plans and terminology misunderstanding.

[jkitty]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Or until he drowned. He was pretty fucking drunk. If the situation had been reversed, we'd be sitting here talking about Bryan being a decent guy for stopping the hook up when he realized Tiff was sloppy drunk and maybe couldn't consent. Bryan was stupid drunk. He gave a confessional/TH at the bar not five feet away from Tiffany. That's not how that is done, but his intoxicated lizard brain saw a camera in front of him and just started talking extemporaneously. Tiff shut the hook up down when she realized Bryan was a mess and then he was jerk.

I partially agree with this. If it was reversed we would definitely have been commending him. But, the problem was not that Bryan drunkenly wanted to hook up with Tiff (although I agree that consent would have been sort of impossible in his state). It was the vile things he was saying to her and about her, which expose his blatant lack of respect and misogyny while trying to hook up with her. I doubt a very drunk Tiff trying to hook up with Bryan would be calling Bryan a hood rat bitch, telling him degradingly to sit on her thumb, etc. Moreover it would be almost impossible for her to speak that way about Bryan because our culture does not have an inherently degrading and disrespectful lexicon about men, being a man, or things that men do. In contrast, implying a man has a vagina is apparently the worst thing you can say to him and all female-performed sex acts are inherently considered subservient and degrading (i.e. "suck my dick," "getting fucked/banged" as opposed to being the one fucking, or sitting on someone's thumb(???)).  Bryan treated Tiff like an object he was entitled to use rather than a person, just like Brock Turner the Stanford rapist. 

[Yours Truly]

9 hours ago, breezy424 said:

Oh God.  That hot tub scene with Bryan and Tiff was sooo skeevy.  I didn't mind Bryan all that much but now he's on my list of truly repulsive people.  I don't care if he was drunk.  Just disgusting.

I like Julia but she needs to cut down on the flirting.  Borderline leading this guy on.

The whole 'course' thing between Ben and Hannah was very confusing.  I don't know who is right.  Offering the meat on the skewers was a good save.  Ben didn't need to get all hissy about it.  It's about the 'guests'.

Hardly any Danny.  YAY!

Hope the owner of the sinking yacht had insurance.  Fortunate for them that they were close to another boat and no one was in danger.  I thought it was cute that the guests put their life vests on.............

It's funny cause the thing with Bobby and Julia was becoming somewhat disturbing to me as well.  Okay she's flirting a bit but so far all I've seen is that it goes along with you pretty nice personality and she's just being a less reserved and allowing herself to play around and have some fun. So basically yeah, she's letting the guard down a bit so that she can be involved a little bit in the crew shenanigans too but that doesn't mean that Bobby has to turn it into a thing. And he sure as hell doesn't have to make it everyone else's business either. Dude, nothing to be confused about. She has a man. And if your flirty gets to a place where moves can be made then ummm she has a man so it really doesn't need to be part of a group discussion. I was annoyed at how necessary he felt it was to do that whole "bruh, even the guests are saying they are noticing some chemistry" I mean, she doesn't need her cast mates to disrespect her man on camera just cause she's getting giggly and a bit playful here and there during her time on the ship. Actually she's been pretty consistent with her behavior regarding her having a boyfriend so I'm not going to blame her for wanting to cut lose a little bit just as long as it stays innocent. So far the little bit I've seen is just innocent flirting. Nothing that suggests banging in the laundry room will be in their future. Geez Louise. And the way Bobby is setting it up is for him to have this big reveal about how SHE.....blah blah blah. It really rubs me the wrong way when men take something so minor and run with it and then get all mad and rude because a women that giggled with you twice and was playful for 8 minutes didn't respond to the move you thought you could make on her cause she seemed to be enjoying your company.

[Yours Truly]

8 hours ago, KBrownie said:

Julia said something in her TH when she was talking to her boyfriend about how what to do when someone is flirting with you as if she's totally innocent and not a willing participant in the flirting with Bobby.  Um . . . no sweetie.  

I though she was letting her boyfriend know that there was a crew member hitting on her. Look I'm not going to crucify her for what seems to be innocent flirting (as long as it stays that way) but Bobby is already trying to shift into HIT ON mode which is a different level. Flirting doesn't always and shouldn't be expected to ALWAYS lead to more intimate acts especially if you understand the perimeters surrounding the situation which Bobby knows full well.

6 hours ago, Long Spot said:

"Sit on my thumb"?  Really, Bryan?  You're surprised she turned THAT type of enchanting talk down? Gag.  Then making it seem like he was bored with her and told her to get lost?  Blech. Hope you are horrendously embarrassed at the reunion and now shunned by women for your behavior that evening, dude.  Jeebus.

 

Dude called her a hood rat.. I was all like what the.......? I'm from hood so I was not understanding where he got hood rat from in this particular situation. So freaking funny and ridiculous but then again so was he and his nasty drunken stupor.

[annewithaneee]

I shouldn't have watched this episode like an hour after seeing the CNN video of Ashleigh Banford reading the Stanford rape victim's letter and bawling my eyes out. The hot tub thing made me perhaps disproportionately ragey. Also, Bryan has no profile; when the camera catches him from the side his nose and cheekbones are basically flat. He's just a buttchin with blonde hair.

The editors clearly like to cast chief stews that are going to be polarizing - though for the record, I liked Adrienne and love Kate - but Hannah went from bitchy to inept. The way she just hovered anxiously asking Julia what to do boggled my mind. Kebabs are simple to throw together, Danny was there and seemed capable enough of at least stirring whatever caramel or whatever it was Ben had going for dessert and making sure nothing burned, and Ben offered to do it. Bullshitting your way around a mistake, be it yours or the kitchen's, is kinda service 101. Grab the guests some drink refills, vamp through the delay, and bring them the next course. She wasted a ton of time and telegraphed the mistake to the guests when there was no need to.

Next week looks good. Ready to see the Captain have to deal with personnel issues since he's been a complete non-factor the past couple episodes.

[Primetimer]

Sarah D. Bunting regrets nothing about that pun. Also: it's Bryan. Bryan is the worst. Shut up, Bryan.

View the full article

[Slider]

Just when I was starting to come around to Hannah, she goes off and tries to cover up the menu debacle.  I am thinking though that this is producer interference because the kebobs were made. She did take the espresso martini "lesson" like a champ though.  Primary was being an ass.

While he was being rude and generally awful at the beginning of the episode, comparing Bryan to a convicted rapist? Really?

[TexasGal]

I kind of get Hannah's confusion.  I wouldn't consider passed cocktail food as a "course", which apparently Ben did.  I'd expect 2 dishes to serve while they were seated as courses.  But, as I type this, I guess that explains why Ben wanted to do the kebabs, which would be more substantial than the little froufrou salmon things.  

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, jkitty said:

I partially agree with this. If it was reversed we would definitely have been commending him. But, the problem was not that Bryan drunkenly wanted to hook up with Tiff (although I agree that consent would have been sort of impossible in his state). It was the vile things he was saying to her and about her, which expose his blatant lack of respect and misogyny while trying to hook up with her. I doubt a very drunk Tiff trying to hook up with Bryan would be calling Bryan a hood rat bitch, telling him degradingly to sit on her thumb, etc. Moreover it would be almost impossible for her to speak that way about Bryan because our culture does not have an inherently degrading and disrespectful lexicon about men, being a man, or things that men do. In contrast, implying a man has a vagina is apparently the worst thing you can say to him and all female-performed sex acts are inherently considered subservient and degrading (i.e. "suck my dick," "getting fucked/banged" as opposed to being the one fucking, or sitting on someone's thumb(???)).  Bryan treated Tiff like an object he was entitled to use rather than a person, just like Brock Turner the Stanford rapist. 

I completely agree with you. I think that the night started to take a turn the moment Bryan slipped in the hot tub. Tiffany responds by saying"that's why we don't take glass into the hot tub." Bryan is someone who has trouble being told what to do when he's sober. He just turned nasty after that. I think Tiffany would have stopped the hook up after he slipped, but still considered Bryan a future romantic partner had the vile shit he said never come out of his mouth. But it did. She seems to be done with him. I say good riddance. He said the shit he said in hopes that he could bully her into sex. And honestly it's all keeping with his character. As much as she's been sour and unpleasant, his weird dislike and dismissal of Jen and her experience has shown that he doesn't really respect women. I agree that our culture doesn't have the same language to disrespect men.

Ben really tried to give Hannah an out when he asked her how many courses the guests think are being served. Hannah could have womaned up and said I made a mistake can you fire the kebabs, but she didn't. She went back upstairs, dithered around, and then asked to fire the kebabs. 

[bichonblitz]

Yea, "why don't you come over here and sit on my thumb" would have totally turned me on. NOT! That was the most disgusting line of the night. Bryan, go away with your nasty thin lips. 

Hannah is just not a very good chief stew or head stew or whatever in the hell the title is. Kate blows her away in that department. 

Forgive my stupidity, but what is an SAE?

[jkitty]

43 minutes ago, Slider said:

Just when I was starting to come around to Hannah, she goes off and tries to cover up the menu debacle.  I am thinking though that this is producer interference because the kebobs were made. She did take the espresso martini "lesson" like a champ though.  Primary was being an ass.

While he was being rude and generally awful at the beginning of the episode, comparing Bryan to a convicted rapist? Really?

Yeah, really.  The attitude Bryan displayed, as HunterHunted perfectly described as trying to bully Tiff into sex, is the exact attitude that men who perpetuate rapes have.  "I am entitled to have sex with you."  No one said he actually raped Tiff, but the underlying misogynistic attitude is the same.  And then these frat boys blame their entitlement on binge drinking and hook-up culture, not a lack of respect for women and the laws of consent.  

Edited June 8, 2016 by jkitty

[HunterHunted]

25 minutes ago, bichonblitz said:

Yea, "why don't you come over here and sit on my thumb" would have totally turned me on. NOT! That was the most disgusting line of the night. Bryan, go away with your nasty thin lips.

Forgive my stupidity, but what is an SAE?

Sigma Alpha Epsilon Fraternity.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigma_Alpha_Epsilon?wprov=sfla1

Many of their chapters have gotten into trouble for being racist, anti-Semitic, and subjecting their pledges to horrible hazing.

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2015/11/sigma-alpha-epsilon-fraternity-yale

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/grade-point/wp/2016/05/19/sae-fraternity-suspended-for-racist-and-anti-semitic-slurs/

[eurekagirl mOo]

Well I was going to ask what a SAE was also so thanks!

,Bryan where to even start? Sit on my thumb was the most disgusting stuff ever...Just..No  And who wants to bet if he had dropped the GLASS bottle while he was drunk as fuck and trying to climb into a hot tub and got cut it would have been everybody elses' fault? He was a disgusting tool and maybe the captain should ream his ass like he so enjoys doing to everyone else? No glass around or in the pool.Douche. Tiff handled herself well but like others I shudder to think what would have happened if she had been as drunk as he was......

Head stew lost all her good points with me. I heard Ben say TWO courses. Regardless of the terminology two is two. After you served the SECOND course you should have known it was all there was. I hate liars and I hate liars who lie to cover up there own mistakes. Just say Opps I screwed up. Ben could have fixed that in  minutes and the guest would have none nothing. Instead she stands at the table and babbles about are they full or or do they want there next course???WTF??? 45 years I've waited tables and run restaurants and NEVER have I EVER seen anyone do something as unprofessional as that shit.

[jkitty]

2 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

It's funny cause the thing with Bobby and Julia was becoming somewhat disturbing to me as well.  Okay she's flirting a bit but so far all I've seen is that it goes along with you pretty nice personality and she's just being a less reserved and allowing herself to play around and have some fun. So basically yeah, she's letting the guard down a bit so that she can be involved a little bit in the crew shenanigans too but that doesn't mean that Bobby has to turn it into a thing. And he sure as hell doesn't have to make it everyone else's business either. Dude, nothing to be confused about. She has a man. And if your flirty gets to a place where moves can be made then ummm she has a man so it really doesn't need to be part of a group discussion. I was annoyed at how necessary he felt it was to do that whole "bruh, even the guests are saying they are noticing some chemistry" I mean, she doesn't need her cast mates to disrespect her man on camera just cause she's getting giggly and a bit playful here and there during her time on the ship. Actually she's been pretty consistent with her behavior regarding her having a boyfriend so I'm not going to blame her for wanting to cut lose a little bit just as long as it stays innocent. So far the little bit I've seen is just innocent flirting. Nothing that suggests banging in the laundry room will be in their future. Geez Louise. And the way Bobby is setting it up is for him to have this big reveal about how SHE.....blah blah blah. It really rubs me the wrong way when men take something so minor and run with it and then get all mad and rude because a women that giggled with you twice and was playful for 8 minutes didn't respond to the move you thought you could make on her cause she seemed to be enjoying your company.

Agreed.  Because she was friendly and was playful with you, she should be dumping her bf to bone you?  That is a huge jump.  I hate when people take friendly, even flirtatious interactions and extrapolate them beyond what they are into much more.  We saw the same thing with Danny and the kilt girl.  Just because she is nice to you and has fun with you, doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you.  There is a whooooollllle spectrum of interactions in between that.  

Edited June 8, 2016 by jkitty

[jumper sage]

Dinner - They had one plan with shish kabob  and then Hannah said she wanted more delicate food.  So, in my mind, they scrapped the bobs and replaced it with salmon on crustini.  Ben did ask about only 2 courses.  How did she think grown men would be satisfied with that?  She screwed up.

[Yours Truly]

2 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

 

Ben really tried to give Hannah an out when he asked her how many courses the guests think are being served. Hannah could have womaned up and said I made a mistake can you fire the kebabs, but she didn't. She went back upstairs, dithered around, and then asked to fire the kebabs. 

Ben even asked her if she wanted him to put them on, and he didn't even seem frustrated just ready to accommodate. I mean hell the kabobs were already prepped anyway it wasn't like he going to have to scramble to whip something up so I didn't even know what the big was. I thought for sure she was going to take Ben up on his offer to fire up the kabobs. Why she wasted time was stupid. She had a guaranteed solution offered up to her but instead of playing it safe and saving time she opted for the gamble which she lost. That just made no sense what so ever.

[butterflyeludesme]

My sentiments on Bryan are the same as you all. Disgusting. 

As for the dinner debacle, that is all on Hannah. From my understanding Ben said he was doing the kebabs as the starter, then two courses(the shrimp and dessert). Hannah complained that the kebabs weren't delicate enough and suggested a canape instead. Ben scrapped the kebabs and made the salmon canapes. So the understanding was always that there were two courses left after the salmon. Hannah delivered the entree(main course) sized shrimp and called it a starter. Obviously the guests would assume that there is an entree/main course coming up next, hence the reason they didn't eat much of the shrimp and even commented on the portion size being large for a starter. 

Hannah could have rectified the whole thing and no one would have been the wiser by calling down to Ben to fire the kebabs as the entree. She looked so stupid lying to Ben about what she said to the guests and she looked even more incompetent asking the guest if they wanted an entree or to go straight to dessert. They had already told her they expected an entree!

[Yours Truly]

1 hour ago, jkitty said:

Agreed.  Because she was friendly and was playful with you, she should be dumping her bf to bone you?  That is a huge jump.  I hate when people take friendly, even flirtatious interactions and extrapolate them beyond what they are into much more.  We saw the same thing with Danny and the kilt girl.  Just because she is nice to you and has fun with you, doesn't mean she wants to have sex with you.  There is a whooooollllle spectrum of interactions in between that.  

And of course now Bobby has set the stage for Julia to come under negative scrutiny because he's laying the groundwork to label Julia a tease just because HE wants to make a move. It's funny but it's such a crock of shit how women are put in these positions where we have to figure out a step by step game plan with all these different variables in place and still end up on the shit end of the stick. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to get close to a guy in a group environment and be cool friends meanwhile trying to side step the most definite advances that will be made. Even when I've managed to draw the line in the sand it never works because once a level of intimacy and familiarity kicks in there's this entitlement that creeps in so there's always this energy that he wants to be more OR the resentment kicks in and then it's all about the leading them on being a tease that gets lobbied out. People roll their eyes but women deal with this underlying minefield ALL THE TIME. Damned if we do, damned if we don't cause money bet had Julia kept the guys at arms length and been a bit uptight about close interactions among them all then everyone would have been wondering what her problem was and why is she so standoffish? Been there too. Middle ground is non-existent most of the time and no matter what side a girl gravitates towards (give in and be friendly or hold back and be cold) there WILL be unpleasant observations of her behavior to be had. Lose, Lose. Why a woman's actions have to be dissected is beyond me and drives me mad but that's our society for you.

[candall]

11 hours ago, missy jo said:

When Bryan said he was former SAE, viewers all over the country were like, "OH..." (Or at least I was.) 

He was disgusting when he was talking about her even before he was falling down drunk, so no. Not a gentleman. 

Those anniversary decorations were so tacky! They looked like they were done by some broke ass junior-prom committee. 

I've been Bryan-supportive, but that fucker's dead to me now.  Not that I would be especially proud to ever see my own slurry-drunk moments broadcast during prime time, but all the rest of his NON-slurring dialogue to and about Tiffany was equally repulsive.  And yes, fits the SAE "partyboy" frat reputation to a tee, 1975 - present.

*****************

Hannah couldn't have made more bad choices on the dinner debacle if she'd tried.  She had a super easy "out" when Ben offered to grill the kebabs, but she opted for the "Still hungry?" Hail Mary instead, trying to cover her own ass.

That being said, I'm not sure I'd consider a plate of tidbits passing among the guests during the cocktail & violin hour a "course."  Is it still the first course if it's a bowl of veggies and dip?

And again, money money money.  My million dollar yachting experience better have more going on at dinner than one dish followed by dessert.

AND a massage longer than 15 lousy minutes!  Fifteen minutes is a shoulder rub at the mall.

Edited June 8, 2016 by candall

[butterflyeludesme]

2 minutes ago, candall said:

I've been Bryan-supportive, but that fucker's dead to me now.  Not that I would be especially proud to ever see my own slurry-drunk moments broadcast during prime time, but all the rest of his NON-slurring dialogue to and about Tiffany was equally repulsive.  And yes, fits the SAE "party" frat reputation to a tee, 1975 - present.

*****************

Hannah couldn't have made more bad choices on the dinner debacle if she'd tried.  She had a super easy "out" when Ben offered to grill the kebabs, but she opted for the "Still hungry?" Hail Mary instead, trying to cover her own ass.

That being said, I'm not sure I'd consider a plate of tidbits being passed around during the cocktail & violin hour a "course."  Is it still the first course if it's a bowl of veggies and dip?

And again, money money money.  My million dollar yachting experience better have more going on at dinner than one dish followed by dessert.

AND a massage longer than 15 lousy minutes!  Fifteen minutes is a shoulder rub at the mall.

I think she said the masseuse was going to be there from 4:00 to 4:50. My husband heard the same thing as you though, so we rewound it to verify. 

[candall]

9 minutes ago, butterflyeludesme said:

I think she said the masseuse was going to be there from 4:00 to 4:50. My husband heard the same thing as you though, so we rewound it to verify. 

That would be better.  My closed captioning says "The massage will be from about 4:00 to 4:15 and then we'll have the cocktail hour."

And ETA, since I was replaying to verify massage times anyway, it's funny that Hannah's next statement is "I have 50 balls in the air at the same time."  Which, umm, not really.  All those years of experience surely encompassed some tougher nuts than a massage, a special occasion cocktail event and dinner for four, right?

Edited June 8, 2016 by candall

[Long Spot]

50 minutes ago, Yours Truly said:

And of course now Bobby has set the stage for Julia to come under negative scrutiny because he's laying the groundwork to label Julia a tease just because HE wants to make a move. It's funny but it's such a crock of shit how women are put in these positions where we have to figure out a step by step game plan with all these different variables in place and still end up on the shit end of the stick. I can't tell you how many times I've wanted to get close to a guy in a group environment and be cool friends meanwhile trying to side step the most definite advances that will be made. Even when I've managed to draw the line in the sand it never works because once a level of intimacy and familiarity kicks in there's this entitlement that creeps in so there's always this energy that he wants to be more OR the resentment kicks in and then it's all about the leading them on being a tease that gets lobbied out. People roll their eyes but women deal with this underlying minefield ALL THE TIME. Damned if we do, damned if we don't cause money bet had Julia kept the guys at arms length and been a bit uptight about close interactions among them all then everyone would have been wondering what her problem was and why is she so standoffish? Been there too. Middle ground is non-existent most of the time and no matter what side a girl gravitates towards (give in and be friendly or hold back and be cold) there WILL be unpleasant observations of her behavior to be had. Lose, Lose. Why a woman's actions have to be dissected is beyond me and drives me mad but that's our society for you.

I could not agree with you more.  This is a gauntlet I became disgusted and exhausted running years ago.  

Add in the entitlement that is seemingly coming to a pervasive head these days and...shaking my damn head.  Just call me a bitch (and worse) straight out of the gate and skip the other crap, please.  

[Slider]

Quote

Yeah, really.  The attitude Bryan displayed, as HunterHunted perfectly described as trying to bully Tiff into sex, is the exact attitude that men who perpetuate rapes have.  "I am entitled to have sex with you."  No one said he actually raped Tiff, but the underlying misogynistic attitude is the same.  And then these frat boys blame their entitlement on binge drinking and hook-up culture, not a lack of respect for women and the laws of consent. 

Throwing around comparisons of rapists and guys who are jerks does nothing to help women or to help stop the rape culture. I think his comments and attitude are being taken a bit too far.  He never put his hand on her in an aggressive manner, and he never threatened her with physical harm or tried to do anything, he only made remarks and comments.  Disgusting and unacceptable comments, but to suggest that it would have led to rape by comparing him to a convicted rapist doesn't help anyone.  I disagree that someone with a misogynistic attitude is automatically lined up with rapists and abusers.  Are they good people? No, but they aren't rapists and abusers.  

Also stereotypes don't do anyone favors either.  To generalize all frat boys as disrespectful to women and binge drinkers is wrong.  

(And just for clarification purposes, I am a woman who works closely with a campus organization at a large university that fights Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault.)

[Neurochick]

5 hours ago, Yours Truly said:

It really rubs me the wrong way when men take something so minor and run with it and then get all mad and rude because a women that giggled with you twice and was playful for 8 minutes didn't respond to the move you thought you could make on her cause she seemed to be enjoying your company.

I agree with this.  I didn't see Julia coming onto Bobby.  The problem is that Bobby wants Julia, so he's going to take every look, every laugh, every thing she does around him as some kind of bizarre sign that she wants him; no Bobby, that's what YOU want.

[jkitty]

1 hour ago, Slider said:

Throwing around comparisons of rapists and guys who are jerks does nothing to help women or to help stop the rape culture. I think his comments and attitude are being taken a bit too far.  He never put his hand on her in an aggressive manner, and he never threatened her with physical harm or tried to do anything, he only made remarks and comments.  Disgusting and unacceptable comments, but to suggest that it would have led to rape by comparing him to a convicted rapist doesn't help anyone.  I disagree that someone with a misogynistic attitude is automatically lined up with rapists and abusers.  Are they good people? No, but they aren't rapists and abusers.  

Also stereotypes don't do anyone favors either.  To generalize all frat boys as disrespectful to women and binge drinkers is wrong.  

(And just for clarification purposes, I am a woman who works closely with a campus organization at a large university that fights Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault.)

We can agree to disagree. I think that a misogynistic attitude that permits someone to speak to Tiff the way Bryan did - basically demanding sexual acts from her ("get over here and sit on my thumb,"  "we haven't even made out yet, but I am thinking about fucking you,"  "if you are gonna be a hood rat bitch like that...") are very much on the sliding scale of sexual intimidation that could lead to rape and part of a culture that readily permits rape.  I never called Bryan a rapist.  I said I see a common thread in Bryan's attitude toward Tiffany and the attitude that leads to rape, particularly on college campuses.  I did not call all frat boys rapist and abusers, but was implying that the ones that are (and the ones that share this attitude of sexual entitlement) do not take responsibility for their actions because they do not see their views of women as wrong.  This attitude and approach to sexual relationships is very much part of rape culture.  It denigrates women, positions them as objects to be taken rather than individuals who must actively and enthusiastically consent to participation, and who can and should be insulted and threatened when they do not readily comply with the man's sexual demands.  Simply because it did not escalate to a physical situation does not mean Bryan's behavior was not sexually aggressive and symptomatic of rape culture.  As long as men like Bryan believe they can demand sex from a woman, "convince" a woman to have sex with them (i.e. threaten, drug, force her into it), or take sex from a woman because she can't say no, rape culture will very much be a thing and this will very much be the foundation of it. 

Bryan didn't take her parking spot or cut in front of her in line.  He was threatening and demanding in a sexual situation.  Bottom line is that "guys who are jerks" in this manner are the problem.  

Edited to add a link to Bryan's twitter feed...blaming all the inappropriate things he did in last night's episode on booze (with a passing, half-assed apology to Tiff).  https://twitter.com/BryanKattenburg?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author.  No hint of personal responsibility or reflection...because he really doesn't think he did anything wrong other than how it impacted him by making him look stupid.  

Edited June 8, 2016 by jkitty

[Hagosaurus]

I think Tiffany was dtf Bryan when they were getting all cozy at the bar. She was the one who suggested that they move their party of two to the hot tub. Once in the tub, I believe shit got real, fast, and she started to have second thoughts about doing anything sexual with him. How can you not feel a little bit like you're about to be the female lead in a porno with all those cameras around? So she started to back it up and then, when he realized that he wasn't going to seal the deal, he acted like a pig. Or should I say continued to act like a pig? Because that whole "I'm going to lightsaber Tiffany tonight" talk with the bros on the way back to the boat was pretty gross too but kind of awesome since we all saw his epic fail to "lightsaber" her. The dude was too drunk to fuck (TM Dead Kennedys) anyway. I highly doubt it would have been an enjoyable experience for her in his state .Guys, bring your A game the first time or else I'm not going to be buying a ticket for the sequel.

8 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Or until he drowned. He was pretty fucking drunk. If the situation had been reversed, we'd be sitting here talking about Bryan being a decent guy for stopping the hook up when he realized Tiff was sloppy drunk and maybe couldn't consent. Bryan was stupid drunk. He gave a confessional/TH at the bar not five feet away from Tiffany. That's not how that is done, but his intoxicated lizard brain saw a camera in front of him and just started talking extemporaneously. Tiff shut the hook up down when she realized Bryan was a mess and then he was jerk.

I totally agree with you. If the situation was reversed I would be saying how lucky Tiffany was that she left with Bryan and not some random that could care less about her but that's not how this played out. So now he is being judged (fairly IMO) for his behavior.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Hagosaurus

[Slider]

Quote

We can agree to disagree. I think that a misogynistic attitude that permits someone to speak to Tiff the way Bryan did - basically demanding sexual acts from her ("get over here and sit on my thumb,"  "we haven't even made out yet, but I am thinking about fucking you,"  "if you are gonna be a hood rat bitch like that...") are very much on the sliding scale of sexual intimidation that could lead to rape and part of a culture that readily permits rape.  I never called Bryan a rapist.  I said I see a common thread in Bryan's attitude toward Tiffany and the attitude that leads to rape, particularly on college campuses.  I did not call all frat boys rapist and abusers, but was implying that the ones that are (and the ones that share this attitude of sexual entitlement) do not take responsibility for their actions because they do not see their views of women as wrong.  This attitude and approach to sexual relationships is very much part of rape culture.  It denigrates women, positions them as objects to be taken rather than individuals who must actively and enthusiastically consent to participation, and who can and should be insulted and threatened when they do not readily comply with the man's sexual demands.  Simply because it did not escalate to a physical situation does not mean Bryan's behavior was not sexually aggressive and symptomatic of rape culture.  As long as men like Bryan believe they can demand sex from a woman, "convince" a woman to have sex with them (i.e. threaten, drug, force her into it), or take sex from a woman because she can't say no, rape culture will very much be a thing and this will very much be the foundation of it. 

Bryan didn't take her parking spot or cut in front of her in line.  He was threatening and demanding in a sexual situation.  Bottom line is that "guys who are jerks" in this manner are the problem.  

Edited to add a link to Bryan's twitter feed...blaming all the inappropriate things he did in last night's episode on booze (with a passing, half-assed apology to Tiff). https://twitter.com/BryanKattenburg?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author.  No hint of personal responsibility or reflection...because he really doesn't think he did anything wrong other than how it impacted him by making him look stupid.  

Actually I agree with 99% of what was said in the quote box above.  And yes, his attitude is absolutely part of the rape culture today.  My only issue was comparing him to an actual rapist.  Tiffany was strong willed and sure of herself enough to know that it wasn't a good situation and she took her power and used it.  Go Tiff!  I wish more women were that self aware and confident.  

[candall]

Yeah, Bryan's tweets are almost devoid of apology.  Color me astonished.

 

20 hours ago:

--Snort, clumsy me, falling in the hot tub.

--Oh wow, I'm really drunk, huh?

--I'm very upset about being so drunk.

--Could I have been drugged?

--I got shitfaced due to work stress.

--Hey, how about that boat sinking?

--Man, Ben gets really pissed over food restrictions.

 

Three hours ago:

--Anyone out there ever been to Greece?

 

Two hours ago:

--Sorry, Tiff.

[kassa]

I didn't see her coming on to him until she fingered his ass.  Don't do that with my brother, don't do that with my brother's buddies, and I especially don't do it with guys I know are into me.  (now, maybe she does, but I don't think he's necessarily wrong for taking it as a positive sign to continue the chase)

She knows he likes her - physical horseplay is a form of flirting if you haven't straight out said "Listen, Bobby - hear me clearly.  Not going to happen.  I love you like a brother, but if you don't cool the flirting, I'll have to cool the hanging out, because you're crossing lines."  And of course, maybe she has, in which case his behavior is worse, and she really does need to cool the giggly hijinx (haven't really seen her having that kind of fun with Ben or Bryan, have we?)

I'd also expect a man being chased aggressively against his wishes to use his words and explain that it was platonic or nothing.  

There's got to be a middle ground between pretending it's not happening and Rocky-style reading your Dear John letter to the rest of the crew.

Edited June 8, 2016 by kassa

[Marvin]

Hannah messed up and should have admitted she was wrong right from the start. If she had Ben would have helped her fix it ! Instead she places the blame on him ! 

She also got one of the menu items wrong - she stated there was truffle with the second canape or something when it was actually something different. 

Bobby should stop being sleazy - he knows she has a boyfriend and should respect that. Instead he sees that as a challenge. It is probably why he wants her !

Bryan is just eww - he is a very sad man !

I also think he is bad at his job as he lets Bobby get away with fratinising with the guests, but not Danny. Bobby is just as bad, talking about his love life in front of them, joining them cliff diving etc. It is hypocritical as a boss, because if you are going to be strict with one person, you need to keep those standards up with everyone to be fair !