S06.E07: The Broken Man

[Raachel2008]

2 hours ago, jjjmoss said:

Sophie Turner is amazing and superior to the actors who've gotten Emmy noms from this program.

Thanks for the laugh, but AS IF. 

See, Sansa telling Baby Mormont that she was going to grow up to be a very beautiful woman was so very Sansa - and because of that, so very stupid. How can, after everyting she went through, after all the strong  women she met (Cersei, Brienne, Margaery, Ollena, Lisa, Shae, not to mention Arya, and ok, Catelyn), how can she still be so fucking shallow? I know, oh, Baby Mormont is just a little girl and little girls want to be princesses and marry princes and kings, but how can she be so dumb? Hasn't she learn that not every kid/women out there is like her? Sigh.

I do think Sansa trusts Jon in a general way, but it is maddening that she doesn't trust him when it is about Littlefinger - and of course she was writing to Littlefinger, who else could that be, since all the ravens had been sent? I said it a couple of episodes ago, and I'm going to say it again: Sansa is sttil alive because a) she was lucky, b) several people saved her ass. But, in spite of that, the girl think she is such a strategist that she can make this kind of decision by herself, without trusting the only person she can trust there. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

Maybe being ressurected kinda of fried Jon's brains because he was better than when arguing his point, and why not explain his reasoning - only a united North will be able to try to defeat the White Walkers? And doesn't all those lords know that Ramsay is a fucking psycho and having a Stark back at Winterfell is better than Ramsay? I know D&D want Sansa and Jon to be the underdogs, but it is necessary to make them hopeless? They planned to gather the Lords' support, didn't they think how they were going to convince each one of them, as in the particular ties and all, or how to counteract Robb's actions?

Sir Davos for the win, but the moment I saw Baby Mormont I KNEW he was the one who was going to convince her. Conveniently, Baby Mormont joined them in their way to Winterfell, so I expect she is going to be surrogate Shireen (she already is). This one is going to hurt, badly, because there is not way Davos is not going to find out what happened.

We all called Margaery's con, and what an awesome little scene with Ollena. I wonder if she is planning on seducing the High Sparrow or put him in some compromising situation, thus exposing him as a sinner too?

Cersei is so going to blow up the whole thing, it is not even fun.

Ah, Riverrun! The scenes between Jamie and Blackfish were my favorites in there entire episode. Jamie entering that camp like a boss and telling the idiots in charge how it is done, Blackfish calling him the Kingslayer, Jamie saying he was going to have to kill everybody, Blackfish saying he can wait in the castle for two years, can you, and the 'I'm disappointed', so fucking great!

It should be a crime to hire Ian McShane for just one episode. What for, show? What for? You can drag the whole Danaerys goes to Westeros plot for six seasons but cannot give Ian McShane two more scenes next week? 

The Hound! I wasn't expecting him, and it was great. I don't quite get how he was not able to hear a group that big being slaughtered, was he supposed to be up the mountains? It didn't seem that far. I suppose now he will meet Arya somehow?

And speaking about Arya.. Woah, I didn't see this one coming. Awesome plot twist!! But do the people at Braavos are cold or what?

I love Yara and Theon together. I never liked Theon much, but I like him a lot with Yara.

I miss Tyrion and Varys, but I would have broke my TV if I had to endure another week of Super Dany whorshipped by all living beings outside Westeros.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Raachel2008

[patchwork]

The Hound has never been on the list of characters I care about and his reintroduction didn't do anything to change that. I would have been happy for his screen time to go else where even, and I can't believe I'm saying this, to Arya's adventures in Braavos. Show us how she went from someone hiding in the dark to confidently buying passage to Westeros and taking in the scenery.  

I knew Sansa and Jon wouldn't have any easy time, Robb really messed up and neither of them are ideally suited to the job by personality or history but I expected better than the floundering idiots we got. It's like they didn't discuss strategy at all, in the North's place I wouldn't commit my fighters to them either even if I did believe in their cause.  

[AnnaMayWong]

Raaachek2008, Excellent ⬆❗ ...especially about Sansa's irksome stupidity and Turner's acting.

[bunnyblue]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Was Arya's stabbing supposed to remind me of Talisa's?

It certainly reminded me. Good thing my girl has more plot armor than Talisa or she'd have dropped just like her sister-in-law.

Speaking of Talisa, I felt bad for her memory that Lord Glover called her a "foreign whore". It sucks that she's regarded as the temptress that led to their king's and kingdom's downfall, and not as the kind healer she truly was.

37 minutes ago, Brn2bwild said:

Her and Brienne.

I hope not. I'd like to think he'd have a grudging respect for both of them. Hell, he taught Arya half of what she knows. But I am a little concerned that he told Septon Ray "hate" is what kept him going. I hope that hate is now directed at the outlaws/brotherhood.

Someone please kill the High Sparrow ASAP. Stay the fuck out of the King & Queen's sheets, you old homophobic perv. This a-hole would fit right in with today's politicians.

It was nice to see the red-headed Wildling leader from Hardhome who sided with Jon made it south with rest of his people. Closed captioning says his name is Dim Dalba, which I find hilarious. I adored Jon's little smile when they shook hands and Wun Wun's loyalty to Jon.

I laughed when some Wildlings and Northern soldiers got into a shoving match and Davos went to break it up. I laughed harder when they stopped & turned on Davos and one soldier said "who the fuck are you?!" and the Wildling says "yeah, who the fuck are you". Poor Davos. And Jon's exasperated look was gold too. He probably misses the good ol' days at Castle Black. Couldn't we have gotten one measly glimpse of Ghost patrolling the camp or walking along side Jon?

[yellowfred]

I'll be honest, I was really expecting Sansa to make a better show of recruiting.  I mean, I guess it's reasonable, considering the fact that instead of being (sort of creepily) mentored by Littlefinger, show!Sansa got stuck being (even more creepily) raped and tortured by Ramsey Bolton, but I always thought that diplomacy (or, what passes for diplomacy in Westeros) would end up being her thing.  Like, I did sort of appreciate her being largely unimpressed with Stannis (twice she banked on him winning battles and twice she was left hanging), but she's now doing the exact thing that he did, expecting people to follow her because their allegiance is her birthright.  

At the very least, she could tell them what a sick fuck Ramsey is (I honestly have no idea why this isn't their go-to argument).

[Oscirus]

2 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I liked Lyanna Mormont, but it seemed a little far fetched that she would accompany the troops.

I found it a bit dumb that none of her advisers could talk her out of accompanying her people since it puts her in needless danger.

Also are lack of penis jokes going to be the theme of this season. Every episode so far has had one.

[MSterling]

My sister kept yelling at the show to kill Edmure and Theon when the topic for each came up. She really wants to kill all of the characters she finds annoying, including Sansa and Littlefinger. My mother said that with all of the characters she wants to kill, it makes the writers look like pikers.

[jjjmoss]

Well, even people I know who hate Sansa concede that Queen Sophie Turner is more talented than 2x Emmy nominee Emilia Clarke.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Sophie's line readings--and/or what I see as the actress' limited range--make the character sound a lot bitchier than perhaps the writers intend. With that said, remember that Sansa has Brienne's warning in her mind about Davos being an opportunist who helped murder Renly with blood magic. Sansa also has a point that Davos' resume as advising Stannis faithfully isn't exactly a mark in his favour, given Stannis' notorious failure at Blackwater (and, although she didn't say so, Stannis' defeat at Winterfell); it's not too different from Varys noting to Kinvara that the red priests' track record in assisting supposed saviours was awfully lacking.

...Of course, Sansa grumping about Davos' great accomplishment in getting 62 soldiers from a 10-year-old child was a little rich, since she had tried and failed to do the exact same thing. I understand her perspective, though.

On a meta level, I don't appreciate the writers making Jon and Sansa look like idiots to highlight Lyanna's sassiness and Davos' competence.

Another thing that bothered me was the camerawork artfully blurring the words of Sansa's letter. Come on! We all know she's writing to Littlefinger! Give the audience some credit, here!

I'm not even mad about Yara liking the ladies (as opposed to straight Asha). Get it, girl.

Jaime (crippled Bran and was crippled himself), Cersei (sicced the High Sparrow on Margaery only to have the same thing happen to her), Vargo Hoat (chopped off Jaime's hand, died by having bits of him chopped off slowly), Lysa (merrily executed tons of people using the Moon Door and was shoved out herself), and many other ASOIAF characters would disagree.

...With that said, I doubt Cleganebowl will be a thing.

Do we? three words of the first line ...to fulfill your

second line looks like .... home for Winterfell, could be to LF but I'm not even 80% convinced  on that; it could be a misdirect by the writers.

[spottedreptile]

1 hour ago, Raachel2008 said:

I know D&D want Sansa and Jon to be the underdogs, but it is necessary to make them hopeless?

This worries me a bit, actually. It's a sign writers are struggling when they sacrifice character in order to further some ridiculous plot line or fill out a story that is thin or inane. Sansa and Jon came across as idiotic - not desperate or noble, just plain dumb. Honestly why would you follow them if they can't articulate their cause? Don't they believe in it? Jon's led troops in battle for crying out loud. Why is he suddenly a stammering teenager again? 

Ridiculous. Really annoyed me. The best part was Cersei and Olenna and even that was so many anvils dropping my ears hurt. Oh, and Jamie.Looked.Very.Hot. Plus Sandor. And Yara/Theon are actually fun to watch. Other than that, weak. 

[BooBear]

5 hours ago, silkymoonshine said:

Unlurking to say...1) if you have such great material as "the north remembers", why make Jon and Sansa go through this?2) I don't understand who says it was an improvement over last week. For me, it was the worst episode this season. Felt underwhelmed with all the plots. Does anyone really believe Maegeary isn't playing the game? Or that Sansa's letter wasn't to Littlefinger. No surprises. Nice confirmation of the Hound's life state, but, again, underwhelming.

I am also not too pleased. Jon and Sansa are not being written well. As others have mentioned their pitch was sad and missed all the important points and I don't understand that "snow storm" of contrivance.  I don't understand why they are setting up exactly as Stannis did.  I suppose for dramatic effect but does Jon not care about his life anymore?  I don't understand the rush.  They shouldn't go unless they can win.   My only laugh was when Lyanna said there were just 62 men.

I am not exactly happy about the hound returning. We have a jam packed cast of characters and I don't want one more that I did well without before. I don't see the point of him.  Plus is he going to want revenge on Brianne?

Ayra, what the heck. I thought you were smarter than that? Trolling around out in public. Being blind for months didn't convince you these people don't mess around?  I had actually hoped that she had some fake blood from the actors to make the waif think she had killed her but that last shot was scary

[areca]

6 hours ago, aslightjump said:

I am unsure why Sansa was so needlessly bitchy.

It's quite possible the only thing that kept her going in Ramsay's captivity was the thought of seeing him dead.

[Bill1978]

Man I loved Lyanna Mormont. Where has she been this whole series. Definitely want her to be more than just a character feeling up the background of a scene. I would have liked more of that scene, not sure how they could have extended it, but I would have watched it. Davos really does know how to connect with the young noble women. Or maybe he saw Shireen in Lyanna or something...

Enjoyed the little Greyjoy interaction. Funny but touching at the same time. Here in Australia we were told this episode was rated MA (I think US equivalent is R??) for violence only. So imagine my surprise when boobies appeared in Volantis.

It was nice to see confirmation that Margery is playing the arrogant High Sparrow. I am a little concerned that Olenna has just accidently planted the seed into Cersei's head to somehow wipe out King's Landing in one swift mood. But I am so glad that someone called Cersei out on her crap and to her face.

I think the writer (or director) chose the wrong way to stab Arya. That was far too brutal for anyone to actually survive.

Riverrun and The Hound plots. Didn't do much for me because those plots are form seasons I haven't formally watched. Although Balckfish was very very enjoyable to listen to. I always love it when people tell a Lannister they don't give two hoots about that house.

[vibeology]

It was shocking seeing Arya stabbed but so unrealistic if she survives. That's the sort of wound that kills people today even with medical intervention. Add to it her landing in those dirty canals and I just don't think it's possible for her to avoid an infection in addition to the actual wounds. Guy wounds kill; we saw Talisa die and we saw Robert die. Arya surviving will be totally unbelievable. 

I love the Northern Lords tour but I do with Jon and Sansa were coming with better arguments. Ramsay Bolton is unstable and doesn't care about the North. The White Walkers are coming. Those are the compelling arguments. Be loyal because you're supposed to isn't as strong. 

[Arnella]

Ian Mc&^%#%Shane and that's how much screen time he gets???  Not even an awesome death scene??  Come on!!!

[MarySNJ]

5 hours ago, Sentient Meat said:

If you ever wondered what the Seven Samurai would be like without the samurai... well that would be it.

Loved the Mormont kid too... although I disagree that she was the best of the kid actors... Joffrey was excellent at being hateful and sadistic... Robin was amazing at being clumsy and creepy... and little Arya was great at being spunky and brave.  This girl is just the best at being bad ass of the bunch.

Speaking of Arya, there's not too much suspense speculating about whether she lives now that they resurrected the Hound.  Sounds like she is on his abbreviated shit list of one.

The cast in this show is truly fantastic, at all levels. Nina Gold is a genius.

As far as Arya and the Hound go, I don't think she's on his shit list. He asked Meribald if the gods were real, why didn't they punish him?  Meribald correctly pointed out that he had been, and concluded that the Hound lives because the gods have a reason. 

I think the Hound would see Arya's abandonment as a deserved punishment. I do think he's going to become an avenging angel of sorts. That will give his life purpose, since he seems to be unsure of why else he still lives. 

[Suck It Trebek]

I want to be like Lady Lyanna Mormont when I grow up. 

[MarySNJ]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Do we? three words of the first line ...to fulfill your

second line looks like .... home for Winterfell, could be to LF but I'm not even 80% convinced  on that; it could be a misdirect by the writers.

I think it's Littlefinger, but no one mentioned the Manderleys in their round-robin tour of the Northern houses. I suppose it could be them.  

Edited to add: It could also be Robin Arryn she's writing to instead of Littlefinger... "to fulfill your [honor as a Tully]: i.e., Family, Duty, Honor. 

Edited June 6, 2016 by MarySNJ

[Happy Harpy]

I think that once more, there's a parallel between Jon and Dany. Dany is a great conqueror, Jon is a great leader in battle. Dany isn't a ruler, Jon isn't a diplomat.
Neither of them is perfect, that's why they need people like Tyrion, Varys, Davos, who know their shit.*
Jon was raised as a bastard and then went to the Nightwatch, so I find it completely normal that he's out of his depth when it comes to negociate with other Houses. He doesn't have the "codes". It was painful to watch, my poor baby, but it actually made sense. Funnily, he isn't more at ease than Brienne when it comes to those things.

As for Sansa, I find it realistic that she was also out of her depth. I remember saying during the hiatus that in King's Landing she saw the "schemes and plots/plots and schemes" part of politics, but didn't see people actually rule. The way she addressed Lyanna Mormont is exactly the way people in court and Littlefinger play the game,with outrageous flattery etc. Except it doesn't work like this in the "real world". I do think she wrote to Littlefinger and I could see her point, but I hate that she's hiding it from Jon. It's stupid. He allied with the Wildlings, supposedly his sworn enemies and Davos with the Red Woman, ditto. So why would he reject the Vale's help and why not tell at least her brother and prepare him to deal with His Oiliness? If she wrote to Littlefinger, she might save the day, but I'm afraid she'll pulling a Robb here. And I hate that she's throwing shade at my Davos, because it's dangerous. Team North needs trust among its ranks and at its head especially; between her secret maneuvers and attempts to undermine Davos she is doing more wrong than right imo. For the first time since S3 I felt like saying: Shut up, Sansa.

About the Hound, it was great to see RoryMcCann again but yes, it was all set up. Imo, Sandor knows perfectly well that Arya didn't kill him because she didn't really want to. That's why he provoked her and yelled at her that he would have/should have raped her sister. He was provoking her into hating him, so he had to know she didn't. As for Brienne, they are both warriors who had a disagreement, I'd say? He sounded more...sheepish than full of hate when he said "it was a woman". Of course, it could go the opposite way. But for me it's at least plausible that they could let bygones be bygones, especially if they find a common enemy.

Bronn! Bronn and Jaime! Obsession with Cersei aside (and why oh why does he still love her?) I loved Jaime's storyline. "I'm disappointed", ouch...Jaime is the resident butt-monkey. The Blackfish rules, but wow, he's cold. I only hope it's also a set up for Jaime to get a Big Damn Hero moment and become what he's always wanted to be. Jaime and Brienne in the preview...be still, my heart. This is going to be intense and those two will kill me. If they don't kill each other first (dreading it).

I was ready to be bored by the KL plot but I found myself very entertained by it. Margaery reveals to be a great character with balls of steel and a brain better than at just petty schemes, as for Olenna spitting venom at Septa Shame and verbally kicking Cersei in the guts, it made me cheer. Next week it seems that blood and fire will make their return to KL before Dany...well, blood at least. Can't wait for the showdown.

I love Theon and Yara. Yara is awesome. That's tought love, but that's love. Give Alfie Allen an Emmy already. Coincidentally, the only audible discussion we heard along with Arya in Braavos was about Ironborns. Arya and Theon face to face plus Arya and Yara meeting? Please, please, please!

I loved Arya with the ship captain. So cheeky, so confident. My baby is hurt, but weirdly I'm not worried. I think she will take down the Waif, in a surprise reversal of fortunes. Oh, and if Gendry's rowing coincidentally led him to Braavos, and Arya coincidentally bumps into him in the next episode just as she's in need of a friend? I pinky swear that I will not say a word against the writing. I know, never going to happen...Well, anyway, I can't wait to see where her storyline is going.

It was a rather slow episode, but I found many things to say about it, LOL. The last three are probably going to be insane, so as well take breather before!

*HOW FOOKING AWESOME WAS MY DAVOS? I loved the immediate rapport he created with Lyanna Mormont and I know that the Shireen shit is going to hit the fan. I need him to survive and be Master of Ships at least.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[RedHawk]

6 hours ago, Goatherd said:

Why didn't Jon show his sword, Longclaw, to Lady Mormont as a sign of the faith that the Old Bear put in him? Or did Jon end up leaving the sword behind?

Leave it behind?! Now please don't tell me he would go and do a damn fool thing like that. I'm still pissed at him for leaving a sack of dragonglass behind once...

[RedHawk]

Arya was so smooth and confident booking her passage back to Westeros, only to stupidly allow a "harmless old lady" near her. I keep thinking that somehow Arya knew she had to let the Waif get one in on her, to fool her (did she?) into thinking she was dead. Why was Arya not carrying Needle, for example? But I can't see how the Waif wouldn't follow up to make sure. Maybe it is all a test of the Waif and she is failing it hugely because of too much emotion, a weird desire for revenge or vengeance against Arya, and thus not truly being "no one". Perhaps now Jaquen will magically heal Arya and then let her go freely. And yet, I'm pretty sure Arya's going to hook up with the acting troupe and put them all up in her luxury suite on the ship.

[Haleth]

I feel as though the show was playing Opposite Day, opposite from what we know from the books.  They've taken the best parts of books 4&5 storylines and turned them upside down.

The North remembers.  Show: "Nope.  All the houses are going to abandon the Starks so they have to turn to LF for help."  (I swear, if Manderly turns them away too I will throw something.)

The BwoB are good guys who defend the little people against marauding armies.  Show: "Nope.  The Brotherhood will kill the little people, steal their goods, and murder a harmless Septon."  (BTW, I applaud viewers who were unspoiled about the Hound's return.  It's been all over the internet for weeks.)

Jaime finally breaks from Cersei and concentrates on restoring order to the Riverlands by deft negotiation and diplomacy.  Show: "Nope.  Jaime longs to return to Cersei and his ham fisted (no pun) threats make the Blackfish close the gate in his face."

At least we were spared more of Dany's encouraging speeches this week.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Haleth

[Anisky]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

As for Sansa, I find it realistic that she was also out of her depth. I remember saying during the hiatus that in King's Landing she saw the "schemes and plots/plots and schemes" part of politics, but didn't see people actually rule. The way she addressed Lyanna Mormont is exactly the way people in court and Littlefinger play the game,with outrageous flattery etc. Except it doesn't work like this in the "real world".

This is an excellent point. Her opening remark was pretty much exactly what I think Littlefinger would have said, though I'd say less that it doesn't work that way in the "real world", and more that it doesn't work that way in the North. 

This probably won't pan out, but I'm hoping that Sansa failing at diplomacy this episode is her starting point. This is her first time trying to "play the game" on her own, and the methods she's been taught are horribly inappropriate for her audiences. I think her looking like a fool here could be redeemed if she realizes why she failed and starts to get more adept at the subtleties of the game, rather than imitating what she's seen on this superficial level. Alternately, she could be the one who goes south to treat with the Sothren lords, since that's the style of diplomacy/games/schemes that she's learned. 

I'd be fine with either of the above, though while I hope for one of those, I'm not holding out a particularly large amount of hope.

 

Everyone so far on this board seems to be seeing Margaery as having some plan and playing some ballsy, long-con game. That wasn't quite the impression I had while watching her scenes. No, I don't think that her newfound piety is sincere. (I think she did use genuine difficult truths that she'd realized about herself in order to make her change of heart seem believable, which was very clever. Everything she said about having helped the poor while making sure everyone saw her do it in order to be loved for it rang very true; I think she used its honesty to draw attention away from the fact that there isn't actually anything religious about this admission.) 

I think she's terrified. She's terrified for herself, she's terrified for her family-- the High Sparrow threatened her grandmother pretty directly, followed by Margaery immediately begging her to get out of King's Landing and go home where she can (hopefully) be safe. I think the flower was to let Olenna know that Margaery doesn't actually believe the things she's saying, but I don't think it's indicative of any plan. 

I also think the reason that she hadn't had sex with Tommen is that she is creeped and freaked the fuck out. I'm sure that, as someone did suggest above, the fact that he wasn't able to save her from spending we-don't-even-know-how-long in that cell being, essentially, tortured, left without food and water, etc, is also a factor in his not being appealing to her; not to mention the fact that on top of all that, he now whole-heartedly believes in the person who did all of that to her (and is still doing that to her brother) in the first place. Not exactly things that make someone attractive.

I guess I think she's "playing the game" insofar as she's hiding her true thoughts and feelings in order to improve her situation, but I don't think she really has a plan right now besides, "Don't get locked up again, don't get killed, don't get more of my family locked up or killed, find some way to survive this, hope against hope some opportunity presents itself to get myself the fuck out of here." 

Edited June 6, 2016 by Anisky

[RedHawk]

^ And even worse, I think Septa Unella was sharp enough to read Margery's signals to her grandmother and the Queen of Thorns might not have an easy getaway from Kings Landing.

[Ottis]

Quote

And speaking about Arya.. Woah, I didn't see this one coming. Awesome plot twist!! But do the people at Braavos are cold or what?

Sarcasm, right? Just checking. As for the people of Braavos, this must be why we met Lady Crane. Bet Lady Crane knew all about the hit, and she will figure into saving Arya. magic, perhaps?

Quote

As far as Arya and the Hound go, I don't think she's on his shit list. He asked Meribald if the gods were real, why didn't they punish him?  Meribald correctly pointed out that he had been, and concluded that the Hound lives because the gods have a reason. 

Maybe. But The Hound also said he survived because of hate. The question is, hatred of who?

Did we know The Hound was that strong? Carrying a log alone?

Edited June 6, 2016 by Ottis

[Sakura12]

At least we were spared more of Dany's encouraging speeches this week.

Hey now, I think some of these characters could use Dany's motivational speeches. Imagine if real motivational speakers gave their speeches on top of dragons more people would listen to them. 

Sansa is terrible at reading the room. That is something she needs to learn. She has a tomboy sister, you'd think she would've used her to talk to Fierce Lady Mormont. Instead she thinks every high born lady wants to be told they are beautiful. Wrong choice. 

Tyrell's house words are "Growing Strong", for me Margaery giving the rose drawing to her grandmother was her showing that she's still growing strong by the side of the High Sparrow to take him out when it's time. Her facade has to be worn at all times in front of others since she's being spied on. That drawing was the only message she could give and if Lady Olenna was captured a picture of a rose would not be incriminating. Margaery's playing the game the smart way, not the stupid way like Cersei. She's too impulsive, acting before thinking is what got in everyone in the Kingdom in this predicament in the first place. 

The High Sparrow's sin his is pride in thinking he's better than everyone. Thinking he's got the Queen and King under his control is what I think will be his downfall if Margaery is able to go through with her plan. It's too bad Sansa didn't learn more from Margaery, play the role you need until it's time to strike. 

[Cherpumple]

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

As for Sansa, I find it realistic that she was also out of her depth. I remember saying during the hiatus that in King's Landing she saw the "schemes and plots/plots and schemes" part of politics, but didn't see people actually rule. The way she addressed Lyanna Mormont is exactly the way people in court and Littlefinger play the game,with outrageous flattery etc. Except it doesn't work like this in the "real world".

Exactly. King's Landing was a shitstorm of bad governing while she was there, and while she may have picked up some of Littlefinger's verbal tactics, she certainly doesn't have his foresight, spy network, or shadiness to have his success. And without his ability to bribe, blackmail, or threaten people into coming to her side, his style of negotiation/persuasion won't work.

I don't think that the Hound wants revenge on either Arya or Brienne.  He protected Arya despite her obvious hatred of him (even after he was no longer hoping for reward money from Robb) and while he was dying he advised her to find Brienne because she could protect Arya. He has much bigger fish to fry in the revenge world.

Regarding Jon's incompetence, I would love to see this be one of the consequences of his rebirth. Specifically, I would like to see this as the part of himself that he lost as part of the resurrection process, and see him struggle a bit more and come to terms with the the fact that he's not as savvy as he once was. But that's more character development than I expect from D&D, so I won't hold my breath.

[Cherpumple]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Quote

Also, Martin doesn't seem to go in for Karmic revenge as much as other writers.

Jaime (crippled Bran and was crippled himself), Cersei (sicced the High Sparrow on Margaery only to have the same thing happen to her), Vargo Hoat (chopped off Jaime's hand, died by having bits of him chopped off slowly), Lysa (merrily executed tons of people using the Moon Door and was shoved out herself), and many other ASOIAF characters would disagree.

True, I just meant that there aren't as many showdowns of main rivals as I would expect from other writers. Tyrion killing Tywin is one, and perhaps I would count Oberyn and the Mountain, but for the most part I feel like the terrible things that happen to characters are not done at the hands of the people that the audience would find the most satisfying (e.g, Joffrey). I'm not complaining, I'm just not expecting several of the fist-pumpingly satisfying showdowns that people have suggested, such as Hound/Mountain, Theon/Ramsay, Sansa/Ramsay, or Sansa/Littlefinger. Ramsay and Littlefinger can die peacefully in their sleep for all I care; I just want them gone.

Edited June 6, 2016 by Cherpumple

[BloatedGuppy]

A rater tepid episode that is probably this season's best, in terms of avoiding overtly ludicrous/awful moments and staying relatively true to the spirit of the story from which it was adapted.

• Jon and Sansa tour the North with mixed results. The geographical/time line lunacy of them jaunting from Northern Lord to Lord without travel time aside, a Night's Watch deserter leading an Army of Wildlings, Bolton's escaped Bride, and Stannis Baratheon's old advisor are getting pretty much the mixed welcome they should be getting. Yeah, it's not "The North Remembers", but "The North Remembers" occurred in a very different state thanks to adaptation decay (and we probably still get some half-assed version of it anyway). Davos having to give everyone a speech about the Dead coming was a bit feeble...that would realistically have been Jon's lookout...but...eh.
• Sansa complimenting Lady Mormont in such a tone-deaf way was alright. Book Sansa had moved beyond that and become both a more skilled politician and conscientious person, but show Sansa has been stuck in stasis ever since leaving Kings Landing. The show has had absolutely no idea what to do with her, other then "get her raped", because that's how the show likes to roll sometimes. Show Sansa still clinging to her "Lords n' Ladies" mentality makes sense.
• Kingslayer/Blackfish was largely loyal to the book and primarily featured dialogue taken directly from said book, if a bit truncated. It was a good scene, and Riverrun looked fantastic. The Freys threatening Edmure's life were over-acting, but that's not the end of the world.
• King's Landing dithered along, but the scene between Oleanna Tyrell and Cersei was alright. Cersei's frustration and impotence to affect her situation was some of the most honest emotion we've seen from the character this season. Both Jaime and Cersei have been adrift in season 6 and felt more grounded this episode.
• The brief Ironborn scene was surprisingly aright, Asha...cough, Yara, sorry...and her inexplicable out of nowhere lesbianism aside. Perhaps the show means to turn HER into Victarion. It was nothing memorable, but after the Kingsmoot anything achieving basic levels of competence should be applauded.
• The Brotherhood Without Banners has clearly turned sour, which is A) faithful to the books, and B) possible evidence that a long absent story line will be getting visited after all.

Now the bad...

• The show has finally culminated its stupid Arya vs Waif story line (although if previews can be believed we might have to suffer even more of it). It's cartoony and ridiculous, and she's now suffered a wound she cannot reasonably be expected to survive. A second Stark surviving mortal injury via magical intervention is going to be a bit hard to swallow.
• While on the topic of Arya, her gadding about Braavos tossing purses of money at strangers is overconfident and bizarrely out of character. The show seems to be more obsessed with making her a badass now then staying true to the core of who she is...a damaged and emotionally traumatized girl.
• Finally, the Hound. Glad to see he's still alive, a long held fan theory ably supported by some subtle foreshadowing is confirmed. However, how the fuck are you going to call your episode "Broken Man" and cast Ian McShane as Septon Meribald and then NOT GIVE THE @!#$%$# SPEECH!? Not even a shortened version of it. The choices these guys make leave me wanting to bang my head on a rock sometimes.

[Cherpumple]

Just remembered: I wonder if the rogue Brotherhood story is going to give us shades of the book storyline of bands of marauders terrorizing the countryside (like the Saltpans) with the Hound's helmet, pretending to be him. It would certainly be a little more interesting to me if he starts a path of vengeance and/or setting things right while his name is being further degraded by the actions of others.

[stagmania]

9 hours ago, Gertrude said:

And are we ever going to see why Jon's resurrection matters? Talk about underwhelming to the max degree. Sheesh. Right now there is zero - ZERO - narrative reason for it other than 'oh, how shocking!'

7 hours ago, Fex said:

It got him out of his Night's Watch vows. His watch is ended, so he's free to take back Winterfell, etc.

I sincerely hope that entire resurrection plot was not only to get him out of his vows. I keep waiting every week to see some significant change in him-his attitude, his physical being, his plans. But he seems like the same old exhausted and world weary Jon Snow. Especially this week, when he couldn't seem to muster up any energy to describe the great threat bearing down on the North or articulate any kind of argument against the Boltons. He doesn't seem particularly fired up about retaking Winterfell or marshalling forces to fight the white walkers. It just seems like the next thing on his list of duties to fulfill.

Are they really going to have something that major happen to him with little or no effect on his characterization? Why does everyone around him act like it's no big deal that he came back from the dead? We've hardly seen any significant reaction or fallout from the people who know; instead, they casually allude to it as if he recovered from a rough bout of the flu. 

[Tikichick]

9 hours ago, trif said:

If Margaery is being strategic, why would she stop sleeping with Tommen? Other than religious fervor, it's basically the only other way she has to relate to him. I feel like that was just a contrivance to give the High Sparrow and Margaery a pretense for conversation, with bonus points for allowing the High Sparrow to make it clear that the faith considers a wife's desire unimportant. 

I would like to know more of exactly what's going on in Margaery's head - 100% faking or finding some wheat in the chaff there? - though if she is just going to die with everyone else in King's Landing soon the show might not think it's worth the time to explore her thoughts further.

I assumed Margaery was withholding from Tommen to insure she had that weapon in her pocket when she needs to point him away from following the High Sparrow.  He's easily swayed, but it seems he may dig his heels in now that he feels he's on the side of righteousness if he' s told to disobey the High Sparrow.  At that point she flashes him a come hither and he won't remember the High Sparrow exists.

[Knuckles]

The return of the Blackfish...worth the wait. His smackdown of Jaime was perfect. Surrender Riverrun and trust a Lannister? Never. If they want it, make the Freys and Lannisters bleed for it. And as he noted, they will kill Edmure regardless. At least here, the writers didn't compromise.

As with everyone else, loved Lady Mormont schooling Sansa on how to run a House as a woman, or in this instance, a child. Even Stannis was impressed with her raven note to him when asked for her assistance. Jon should have remembered that. And yes, as the head of House Mormont, she would be on the battlefield with her men, as medieval custom dictates.

Margaery having a plan no surprise, but nice to have it confirmed, and glad that QoT is heading for the hills, but withholding sex from Tommen, to make him realize the cost of his alliance with the Sparrow was clever. Got the old goat to start pimping for some action on her part...could he be any more loathsome, but it did confirm that Margaery has a strong card to play with Tommen. And yes, you could see the wheels turning in Cersie's head when QoT told her she had no allies, and was surrounded by enemies...

As for the north...Jon and Sansa are assuming that Rickon's survival depends on moving fast. Bolton has the Karstark and Umber forces and his own...but it looks like the Glovers may try to sit it out. The Manderley's have not been heard from and possibly Edd and the NW will head south if the Wall falls...but without the Vale forces, they are undermanned. 

[Gertrude]

5 minutes ago, stagmania said:

I sincerely hope that entire resurrection plot was not only to get him out of his vows. I keep waiting every week to see some significant change in him-his attitude, his physical being, his plans. But he seems like the same old exhausted and world weary Jon Snow. Especially this week, when he couldn't seem to muster up any energy to describe the great threat bearing down on the North or articulate any kind of argument against the Boltons. He doesn't seem particularly fired up about retaking Winterfell or marshalling forces to fight the white walkers. It just seems like the next thing on his list of duties to fulfill.

Are they really going to have something that major happen to him with little or no effect on his characterization? Why does everyone around him act like it's no big deal that he came back from the dead? We've hardly seen any significant reaction or fallout from the people who know; instead, they casually allude to it as if he recovered from a rough bout of the flu. 

That's exactly my problem with the resurrection. Oh he was dead? Well, he got better. And the narrative purpose isn't even to get him to take back Winterfell - in the books, that's the reason he was killed in the first place (well, sorta). He was already going to march on Bolton, it's the show that changed things so that his resurrection gives him an out to his vows so he's free to march on Bolton. So I still see zero reason for or consequences of the resurrection.

[Bad Example]

Margaery not sleeping with Tommen seemed perfect strategy to me.  How better to play High Sparrow's ego than to provide him something to instruct her on?  It's plausible and it's the perfect "mistake" for her to make since it makes her look more pious and religion-minded.  Then when High Sparrow learns that she has followed his advice to the letter, he'll see that as evidence of his control over her.  

As for being creeped out... well, Tommen's so young that I can't believe she wasn't ALWAYS creeped out a little bit.  But sex is politics and ambition for her, so I doubt her personal feelings about sex play into it at all.  On a physical level, I don't think Margaery cares whether she's sleeping with Tommen or not.  Through our modern lens we all think the High Sparrow and his "woman's sexual desire doesn't matter" POV is horrible, but I think that's pretty much what Margaery believes, too.   

[GrailKing]

Someone posted this from another site.

[cambridgeguy]

You know, if Mormont's 62 men are as good as Ramsey's 20 then this will be wrapped up in a few hours.  Sadly, I suspect the 62 will need some help from the hundreds of Vale knights camped out on the Northern border.  Has no one noticed the massive military force sitting there?  Perhaps the Freys are also moonlighting as sentries for Ramsey.

[Maximum Taco]

8 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I have to agree. It's a great concept, but doesn't seem terribly likely, especially when you factor in the Hound's leg injury. Also, Martin doesn't seem to go in for Karmic revenge as much as other writers. I know that lots of people want the Hound to kill the Mountain and Sansa to kill Littlefinger and/or Ramsay, but I don't think these will happen so neatly.

Agreed.

Who killed Joffrey? It wasn't Arya, or Robb, or Cat. All of whom would've been karmically appropriate. Sansa played a part to be sure, but I don't think anyone who knew what happened would say that he was killed by her.

Who killed Roose Bolton (although it hasn't happened in the books yet)? It wasn't a Stark.

Who killed Janos Slynt? It wasn't Arya or Sansa, the girls who saw him hold down Ned as Ser Ilyn came for his head. It was Jon, who killed him for disobeying a direct order.

I suppose Brienne did kill Stannis, which was very appropriate, but that almost certainly isn't happening in the books.

Sometime people get what's coming to them, but the person who's giving is not always karmically or narratively appropriate

8 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Jaime (crippled Bran and was crippled himself), Cersei (sicced the High Sparrow on Margaery only to have the same thing happen to her), Vargo Hoat (chopped off Jaime's hand, died by having bits of him chopped off slowly), Lysa (merrily executed tons of people using the Moon Door and was shoved out herself), and many other ASOIAF characters would disagree.

...With that said, I doubt Cleganebowl will be a thing.

 

This is karmic justice. People get what's coming to them, somehow, without regard to who is doing the deed. 

What was discussed was karmic revenge. For instance if Bran was the one to chop off Jaime's hand that would be karmic revenge (you maim me, I maim you).

The only real karmic revenge that's been dished out is Lady Stoneheart's brand (you kill my son, I kill yours) and ShowBrienne (you kill my king, I kill your king)

[Advance35]

I thought the stars of this episode were definitely the Tyrell women.  It was a great relief to see that Margaery hasn't been sucked into the High Sparrow's act.  She recognizes that the High Sparrow is now a person of position and authority in Kings Landing and isn't going to assume she can take him on just because she has the title of Queen (she made that mistake with Cersei in Season 5).  She's afraid for herself and for her brother and this episode I thought we saw genuine fear in her for Olenna's welfare as well.   She'd know doubt love to have Olenna's support but she's willing to fight her own battle on the front line to know that Olenna's not vulnerable to the same thing that befell her.    This was one of the few instances where I feel the genuine warmth that exist within House Tyrell was put on display.  Due to their surroundings and the stakes they are playing for, Olenna and Margaery tend to come off as 70% schemer and her protege but this episode actually moved me where they are concerned.   Margaery subtley pleading with Olenna to go back to Highgarden and Olenna saying "I will never leave you" almost made me get a lump in my throat.   Then when she left the room and unfolded the paper, saw the flower, looked up and then smiled.   What is that warm feeling?

Also Loved Olenna's threat to Septa Unella.  "If I whistle, my men will come in here and bash you about until I tell them to stop, IF I tell them to stop." and her looking at Septa Unella and saying "Does it talk and walk." LMAO.

The Cersei and Olenna meeting was simmering in the best way.   It was the first time I can remember Olenna coming off so genuine.  Her voice was pretty much caked with hate for Cersei.  Beyond all the maneuvering and power grabbing, Cersei is one of the most VILE people Olenna's ever met and she'll never stop hating her for how she's hurt her Grand Children.   And seeing Cersei standing there, shaking from being so enraged only added to the tension.

Up in the North, I found Sansa's faux pas understandable.  Like other posters have pointed out, the compliments towards appearance are the kind of courtesies that you find in places like Kings Landing and Highgarden.   I also like the fact that she has left herself with avenues to explore as opposed to just one path of recruitment.   While she is going from Lord to Lord with Jon, she has Brienne going on her behalf to the Riverlands to hopefully amass what's left of the House Tully forces.   And when she didn't have the numbers she was hoping to gain with Jon, she bit the bullet and went where she was hoping to never have to go again, Littlefinger.   I don't think Sansa truly trust ANYONE.  You can know something intellectually and still have an opposite instinctual reaction.   She trust Jon, but once upon a time she trusted LF, Lyssa Arryn as well.   On Paper Davos Seaworth does raise eyebrows.   A former criminal who served Stannis, who murdered his brother, was head of a strange cult, lost the Battles of Blackwater and Winterfell and ended up beheaded.  Yet Davos is now advisor to an up and coming power player.  She should be suspicious of anyone who can manuver that way (though Davos is the honest sort and I think he's more concerned with beating back the dead).

Not concerned with Arya because I think the Faceless men are going to follow her to Westeros and it's going to be another problem thrown on top of the Starks.

Sandor really could have stayed dead as far as I'm concerned.  Waste of screentime for my money.

The Greyjoys, tentative interest.  I'd be interested in seeing how their meeting with Danerys goes.

[nodorothyparker]

Count me as one who is happy to have the Hound back on my TV even if I've never been quite convinced that Hound = Gravedigger means we're getting Clegene Bowl.  Hopefully now that he's done hanging with the hippies he'll harness his anger for something useful because gods know there's been enough pointless killing for the sake of killing on this show.  I like Ian McShane a lot but his Elder Brother was a little underwhelming because again, instead of the quiet contemplation of the Quiet Isle and the Man Breaks speech we got an extremely watered down synopsis.  I did like the Hound's line reading about it being a woman who nearly killed him.  He seemed ironically amused by it to the point that I could see it turning out all right if he ever meets Brienne again.

I liked Lyanna Mormont too, but at the same time it's easy to be snarky when you're a kid who's never left your island fortress.  Sansa was supposed to be only a few years older than she is in season one and she managed to be pretty snarky with Arya and her septa at times.  Life and other people knocked a lot of that out of her.  That said, apparently the North doesn't remember.  Or they remember that following the Starks and their decision making blinded by honor is what has gotten a lot of them killed.  It actually doesn't surprise me that Sansa and Jon are the worst salesmen ever because neither has ever really been in this position before, but they're getting about the reception I would expect for their rag tag team of misfits.  Oh, but you've got Wildlings and some random Southroner we've never heard of who came up here with another army that didn't really do anything but desert or die?  Well, let me immediately sign up to go against our new ruling house that flays everyone who so much as looks at them sideways then.  I realize it's all a setup for Littlefinger and his army to swoop in and save the day, so whatever at this point.

I finally got my Jaime at Riverrun scenes so I'm thrilled about that.  A lot of the dialogue was lifted directly from the book even if I did miss the Blackfish snarking at the end that he was bored and thought he might as well see Jaime's stump for himself.  I swear if this show messes up my Jaime-Brienne reunion next week with more inane babbling about his great stupid love for Cersei as the preview suggests I'm going to throw something at my TV. 

Olenna's smackdown of Cersei was terrific.  I have a feeling though she's going to live to see the destruction of her house she fears and some level she already knows she's going to be last Tyrell.  I still don't care about a girl or her storyline, but at least we were spared Dany of the 20 titles and yet another stilted speech this week.

Edited June 6, 2016 by nodorothyparker

[RedHawk]

16 minutes ago, Knuckles said:

...

As for the north...Jon and Sansa are assuming that Rickon's survival depends on moving fast. Bolton has the Karstark and Umber forces and his own...but it looks like the Glovers may try to sit it out. The Manderley's have not been heard from and possibly Edd and the NW will head south if the Wall falls...but without the Vale forces, they are undermanned. 

And yet Jon and Sansa are moving at what seems like a glacial pace! Geez, the Wall was probably built faster. You'd think Sansa would feel a bit of desperation to save her innocent little brother from Ramsey. And Jon just kinda shrugging off the threat of the White Walkers and letting Davos bring them up? His undead brain still isn't functioning fully, I guess.

[Gertrude]

9 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Someone posted this from another site.

Well damn. Show, you disappoint me.

[Tikichick]

2 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

I think it's Littlefinger, but no one mentioned the Manderleys in their round-robin tour of the Northern houses. I suppose it could be them.  

Edited to add: It could also be Robin Arryn she's writing to instead of Littlefinger... "to fulfill your [honor as a Tully]: i.e., Family, Duty, Honor. 

I wondered the same about Sansa possibly writing to Robin.

The Hound's reintroduction seemed so high speed.  I didn't get the impression Arya is in any way on his list.

Arya's story didn't feel real and I had all sorts of weird thoughts watching it.  Definitely brought the Red Wedding to mind when she was stabbed.  Thought for a minute her story might be combined with the Lady Stoneheart story when she was stabbed and went into the water.  Then I got to thinking about the coin she threw into the water before her entry into the House of Black and White and wondered if she might possibly retrieve it.  I wondered if she died if her face would be harvested and "Arya" would be seen doing many surprising deeds in the future.  I've wondered if the person stabbed was in fact one of the actors, particularly because she didn't have Needle on her, which I cannot believe.  Now I'm wondering what happens to the Waif if she does not take the life she was ordered by Jaqen.

[vibeology]

1 hour ago, Anisky said:

Everyone so far on this board seems to be seeing Margaery as having some plan and playing some ballsy, long-con game. That wasn't quite the impression I had while watching her scenes. No, I don't think that her newfound piety is sincere. (I think she did use genuine difficult truths that she'd realized about herself in order to make her change of heart seem believable, which was very clever. Everything she said about having helped the poor while making sure everyone saw her do it in order to be loved for it rang very true; I think she used its honesty to draw attention away from the fact that there isn't actually anything religious about this admission.) 

I think she's terrified. She's terrified for herself, she's terrified for her family-- the High Sparrow threatened her grandmother pretty directly, followed by Margaery immediately begging her to get out of King's Landing and go home where she can (hopefully) be safe. I think the flower was to let Olenna know that Margaery doesn't actually believe the things she's saying, but I don't think it's indicative of any plan. 

I also think the reason that she hadn't had sex with Tommen is that she is creeped and freaked the fuck out. I'm sure that, as someone did suggest above, the fact that he wasn't able to save her from spending we-don't-even-know-how-long in that cell being, essentially, tortured, left without food and water, etc, is also a factor in his not being appealing to her; not to mention the fact that on top of all that, he now whole-heartedly believes in the person who did all of that to her (and is still doing that to her brother) in the first place. Not exactly things that make someone attractive.

I guess I think she's "playing the game" insofar as she's hiding her true thoughts and feelings in order to improve her situation, but I don't think she really has a plan right now besides, "Don't get locked up again, don't get killed, don't get more of my family locked up or killed, find some way to survive this, hope against hope some opportunity presents itself to get myself the fuck out of here." 

I agree that Margarey doesn't have a plan exactly. I think she knew she needed to get out of that cell and that piety would get her closer to the High Sparrow and potentially give her power so she went with it. She advises Olenna to get out of dodge because the HS said something that freaked her out so she went with it. She's no got a Red Wedding like plan in the works; she' just a smart and saavy woman who has learned that its easier for her to get information if she's playing along with powerful men and information is one way for her to wield power.

As for not sleeping with Tommen I think she's withholding because she knows that's another way to gain power and because she wasn't sure how the High Sparrow would react if she did have sex with him. She didn't want to do anything that wasn't cleared by him because she didn't want to risk ending up in a cell again. Now that she's got the HS's permission, she's going to use that power over Tommen. As much as Septa Unella is a dear friend, I doubt she's going to join the royal couple in bed and that gives Margaery one place where she can influence the King without any of the Sparrows getting in her way.

[RedHawk]

15 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

Someone posted this from another site.

She could have addressed this Robin, who is technically the commander. That still would be asking for help from Littlefinger.

Edited June 6, 2016 by RedHawk

[RedHawk]

Removed post and took to "No Book Talk" thread.

Edited June 6, 2016 by RedHawk

[WatchrTina]

17 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

I wish the Hound was re-introduced differently.  I felt nothing at the killing of those people, and I'm not buying the Hound seeking vengeance.  If that's where this is going.  He's slipping.  He hears screams, knew the bad guys were in the vicinity, yet ditched the machete before running to check out the situation.

Yeah, that bit of plot did not ring true at all.  The FauxBwoB did not just kill one woman, who we hear scream off-screen.  They slaughtered about 20 people.  But we only heard one scream?  And they managed to do all that killing and clear off completely before the Hound (who was apparently within ear-shot) could arrive?  The only thing that group had that was of value was their food (and maybe their tools and the young attractive women) yet the killers didn't bother to gather up the food after doing the slaughter -- you can see a lot of it lying on the ground afterward.  Yeah, that scene did not make sense the first time I saw it.  Now that you've pointed out that Sandor drops his machete before running to investigate, it makes even less sense.

My major reaction to that series of scenes was "Seriously?  You brought in Ian McShane only to kill him off after one episode?  SERIOUSLY?"

Quote

If Margaery is being strategic, why would she stop sleeping with Tommen? Other than religious fervor, it's basically the only other way she has to relate to him.

I think she did it for two reasons.

1. First she did it to demonstrate to the High Sparrow in yet another way the degree to which she has become devoutly religions -- shunning those "pleasures of the flesh" that she used to enjoy.  It makes her look more like a septa (they are celibate, right?) and it gives him the opportunity to counsel her to yield to her husband, which feeds his nasty, sanctimonious ego. Margery is playing him like a fiddle.
2. Secondly, it points out to Tommen the down-side of being extremely religious.  Margery is playing the Sparrow but Tommen is just playing along.  He doesn't understand the real game.  He does understand, however, that his newly religious wife is uninterested in sex and that's got to be a HUGE disappointment for him.  You know that's why the High Sparrow stepped in.  

Quote

What happened to Needle, by the way?  What happened to that whole cool scene of Arya in the cell putting out the candle at the end of the last episode?  Oh, Show.  

THIS!  A thousand times this.  I can't believe they didn't pay off that final scene from the last episode.

Edited June 6, 2016 by WatchrTina

[nodorothyparker]

I'm not convinced Margaery has a long term plan either.  I think she was smart enough to figure out how to tell Dirty Big Bird (Seriously, I get that you're all pious and all but wash your damn caftan and maybe your face and feet too.) enough of what he wanted to hear to get herself out of that cell.  Locked up, she can't do anything to help herself or her brother.  She's still under pretty strict watchful eyes as we saw but at least now she's out where she can see and hear everything that's going on and look for an opening.  And what she heard this episode is that Big Bird is going to go after Olenna next if she doesn't get her out of town.

[stillshimpy]

Boy, the writers of the show just hate the freaking Northern plot from the books apparently.  The North Remembers?  Not really, they can't even remember what happened at the freaking Red Wedding when their new liege lord had most of their men and many of their relatives slaughtered.  

This is just goofy, there should be houses that want to rise up against the Boltons, King's Landing and all of it.   Instead Jon and Sansa stand around, getting their butts handed to them, unable to think of a single response.  Nice of the show to include in the previously Sansa's assertion that they would be loyal to the Stark name...only to have that savaged by a little (fierce and awesome!) girl and Glover.   The poor doofs, the look on Sansa's face was painful, no wonder she likely sent a raven to Littlefinger.  

Other than that, this was a fairly concussive episode.  "Oh look, the Hound....and instead of being on the Quiet Isle, he's joined a hippie commune, of people so dedicated to pacifism, they died without so much as a howl of protest?"  Weird staging on that murder scene, by the way.  They were all positioned as if they had been killed in the course of their daily lives.  Shattered melons (literal, not figurative for their heads) and scatter lumbered, as if the Brotherhood Morphed into the Brave Companions had teleported into their midst.  You'd think they'd have all been running away rather than gathered around the buildings, but I get that it was staging and they just needed the dead in the frame. 

I'd be more of a mind to think Arya was done for with that gut wound, if it wasn't for the fact that the Risen Clegane (uh...the second one, come to think of it) also had what should have been a fatal wound and....behold.  She'll get out of this somehow.  

[RedHawk]

7 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

I'm not convinced Margaery has a long term plan either.  I think she was smart enough to figure out how to tell Dirty Big Bird (Seriously, I get that you're all pious and all but wash your damn caftan and maybe your face and feet too.) enough of what he wanted to hear to get herself out of that cell.  Locked up, she can't do anything to help herself or her brother.  She's still under pretty strict watchful eyes as we saw but at least now she's out where she can see and hear everything that's going on and look for an opening.  And what she heard this episode is that Big Bird is going to go after Olenna next if she doesn't get her out of town.

Too right! Surely Margery can find the scripture passage where one of the Seven has said at some point some version of "Cleanliness is next to Godliness". Quote that one back at the filthy High Sparrow! (Heck, even Bernie Sanders combed his hair when he got serious.)

Edited June 6, 2016 by RedHawk