S05.E11: Synecdoche

[Dagny]

I can't believe how much it hurt to hear Root talking to Harold.  It was a voice from the dead still challenging him to take action and the voice still had the same inflections.

[beadgirl]

 I choose to believe the Machine would not have let the little girl die had the guard refused to let Finch go.

[Netfoot]

2 hours ago, StarBrand said:

Despite what some people seem to think, the Machine is NOT Root.

This is simply the long-standing argument about machine intelligence, but in a slightly different form.

If a machine can pass the Turing test, then it can definately be said to feign intelligence, but is it demonstrating actual intelligence?  Some people think that wet brain cells are a requirement for actual intelligence, while others believe intelligence is defined by behaviour rather than mechanics.

The Machine claims to be 99.6% Root.  The missing 0.4% alone is probably sufficient to deny that She is actually Root.  But put that aside (or assume the missing 0.4% can be found) it all boils down to whether you feel the squishy biologicals are a requirement for personality/intellect, or whether functionality is all that counts.

I tend to think that if you administer the Turing test to an entity which passes the test, how do you ever know if you have been testing an AI or an actual, honest-to-goodness living person?  Unless the entity tells you?  And if you yourself don't know what you're dealing with.....

[tessaray]

31 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

Well, it means something now.

I have to say that the sight of that grave affected me far more than the site of Root's actual body in the previous episode.  I mean, I love this show, and all the characters in it, and it's ending is very difficult to contemplate.  But that image really spilled the wind out of my sails.

So very true.  

[StarBrand]

Hopefully someday soon they can all give Root-like her friend Hannah-a proper burial.

[Gigi43]

There's a huge difference in making a threat and carrying it out. Finch and the Machine were just counting on that being the exact right button to push for that guard. We know Finch is not that kind of person, but, the guard just knew he was a guy who had all of that information, so, don't mess with him just in case. The probably of the favorable outcome was probably calculated at the highest percent the Machine could possibly achieve.

 

I'm pretty sure the recording we heard in the beginning of the season is The Machine downloading all the information on everything we've seen into another source (whatever is giving the new team numbers?) right before it, and Samaritan go offline as result of whatever Finch is doing. Didn't Greer plant a virus to try to destroy the Machine or get Samaritan online in season 2? I don't remember the details though.

 

What I think I like the most about this whole idea that past numbers are now helping, it plays into the exchange with Elias/The Voice about loyalties make you weak which Elias proved wrong in spectacular fashion, and the biggest difference between Samaritan and the Machine. Finch always wanted "a human element" to the Machine and that's exactly what he got. Samaritan is using people to do exactly what it wants, the people that are helping the Machine know exactly why they're doing it and want too, because they've been personally impacted by the benefit of it.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Gigi43

[basiltherat]

When they first indicated this episode was in DC and involved the President as a number, I thought that the President was going to turn out to be that Congressman that the Machine told them to kill.  And that he was Samaritan's puppet and therefore a perp and not a victim.  And I thought that since they were in DC, they would see Control!

But I did like the idea of more teams, which makes sense.  After all, Harold was not the first to do the numbers; that was Nathan, so if Harry took up the cause, others can after him.  As did Vigilance 2.0 after Collier.

[Sakura12]

Shaw doesn't feel emotions the way other people feel emotions. I like that they kept her in character. She was mourning like Reese said but in her own internal way. Her acceptance was her acknowledging she's going to continue Root's crusade. 

I also like seeing Shaw and Reese talk about their shared pasts as Government assassins. With Shaw saying they don't teach the Spec guys enough. 

 "Rest in Peace, Cocoa Puffs" only Fusco could say that in a eulogy and make it heartfelt. 

Seeing past numbers was great. It's good for them to see what they do has an impact after they move on to the next number. They've inspired others to take up their cause. I remembered Harper, Logan Pierce and Joey Durban unlike the Voice from last week. It does make you wonder if there are Team Machine assets all over the country. Or if the Machine recruits, Computer Genius, Military/CIA and Law Enforcement to match the original team. 

[yellowfred]

6 hours ago, Agent Dark said:

Person of Interest has always been really fantastic at its deliberate use of names, and I see no reason why that would have changed, so it got me wondering if the name Root is perhaps something she uses more to shield herself from the world.  Harold is one of the very few people she genuinely, deeply cares for so perhaps she 'allows' him the use of her real name.  I get the feeling that she would be completely fine with Shaw using her real name, and if that follows then she would definitely be OK with The Machine calling her as such.  And then when you consider The Machine knows Root to 99.6% accuracy, then it stands to reason that MachineRoot would know herself enough to know that.  Just my thought anyway.

I don't doubt that the writers had a reason for having the Machine call Root "Samantha Groves," but I don't think it's a thing of the Machine knowing her so well.  I'm sure Root wouldn't have gotten angry with the Machine for calling her "Samantha Groves" any more than she got mad at Harold for continuing to call her "Miss Groves," but "Root" was the name she obviously preferred.   Like, I think Shaw could have called Root literally anything and she'd have been fine with it.  At the same time, though, Shaw calls her "Root" every single time.  John calls her "Root."  Fusco, when he's using a name, calls her "Root."  Even Harold eventually started calling her that more often (I would argue that his insistence on calling her "Miss Groves" was something of a defense mechanism on his part).  So, if the people she was closest to, the ones who cared the most about her, all call her "Root," it's a little sad that the Machine doesn't. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by yellowfred

[DarkRaichu]

I always thought they set Logan as backup-Finch should Harold was killed or ME was unable to continue.  I have to admit having Logan as the head of Washington branch of TM was a better scenario.

Love that shot with 5 of them with yellow box marked assets

I also think Lionel is to take over as brain of operation / man in the HQ / Finch's role once things settled.  Sameen and Blackwell (he'll convert) will be boots on the ground.  Sadly Harold and John are going to be no more.

Edited June 8, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[CoderLady]

1 hour ago, ABay said:

ITA the Machine gave off some very Samaritan vibes when describing helping people and with the heart-transplant bargaining chip. 

It was cleverly done, though. No one was threatened. The Machine just laid out the enormous advantages of one decision versus the enormous loss of the other. Free will again.

[Trillium]

Samantha Groves is dead, but Root is still alive as part of the Machine. That's the distinction to me. 

[DarkRaichu]

8 minutes ago, Trillium said:

Samantha Groves is dead, but Root is still alive as part of the Machine. That's the distinction to me. 

I also think that was part of the "upgrade" Root put into the Machine last episode.  

[Bobbin]

Machine logic and predicting events and behavior are matters of pattern recognition and programming, not actual insight. Devices do not feel physical pain, arousal, or curiosity. Close, but definitely no cigar.

Harold isn't really a team player in that he still believes that only he can save mankind. It's time for another billionaire computer genius to take the reins.

If this show continues to follow its pattern of intelligent scripts and quality acting, we may be seeing a TV rarity:  a satisfying ending to a long-running series.

[HowdyTV]

Janeta, what we don't know is if the threat for The Machine was pure bluff just to advance Harold. So, had the guard not cooperated, The Machine would have moved on to the next opening to help Harold and left the child's wait list as was. Whereas, Samaritan would have carried through with the threat.  At least, this is what I hope would be the case.

[Good Queen Jane]

13 hours ago, Netfoot said:

It said simply 050313.  A number I will probably remember.  I may even have a T-shirt printed

Glarkware, take note.

[yellowfred]

I think May 3, 2013 is the first time that Root talked to the Machine.

[DarkRaichu]

10 minutes ago, yellowfred said:

I think May 3, 2013 is the first time that Root talked to the Machine.

Per wiki page, the Zero Day episode aired on Thursday May 2, 2013.  However, this was when the show aired on random day of the week so you could be right

[TigerLynx]

I like the idea of Fusco continuing to work with The Machine if Reese and Finch die.

When I saw all those bodies around Finch, I was like either Finch just went very dark, or . . . and then The Machine started talking and told Harold she turned the guys on each other.

When everyone in DC met up at the end, it reminded me of the end of a Mission Impossible episode.  They were finished with their current assignment, and it was time to head out.

[DeepRunner]

5 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

That's why I think the virus Harold is releasing will take out The Machine as well as Samaritan, or leave them both unable to interfere in human life. That's the collateral damage that the Machine was talking about.

That would make sense, given the talk that Finch had with The Machine while he was in the diner, discussing how people think they make the world better when they can't foresee unintended consequences. However...

I also think that The Machine knew that loading the virus would quickly escalate the war, and lead to the deaths of other Team Machine members, and maybe, even Grace. Or himself. 

[Princess Lucky]

4 hours ago, Netfoot said:

I have to say that the sight of that grave affected me far more than the site of Root's actual body in the previous episode.  I mean, I love this show, and all the characters in it, and it's ending is very difficult to contemplate.  But that image really spilled the wind out of my sails.

I agree, but to be honest I expected this to be Reese's ending. An unmarked grave, just like he and Finch discussed way back in S1's Witness (the episode with the KGB agent played by Alan Dale, a lovely early example of what this show could do). Now that we got it with Root, what's gonna happen to Reese? Maybe we won't even see a funeral? Or a grave? (you'll notice I consider his death a certainty) Maybe we'll just see him dying, guns blazing?

I gotta say, after losing Root and since I suspect Harold will be getting a(n undeserved) happy ending, I NEED Reese to die. That'll actually be the happiest ending for him. The way he was worried about Harold in this episode killed me. And the way he understood Shaw wordlessly, but still tried to nudge her into action, partly because he knew it would help her and partly because they really needed to find Finch. Reese can't lose anybody else. He did lose Root, and they did have a great rapport, but she was the most distant team member in relation to him. Shaw and Finch feel Root's loss way more. I think losing Fusco would ruin Reese, I think he'd also feel the impact of losing Shaw, but losing Finch would devastate him. He's had enough pain. It'll be better if he's the one who dies. I think Reese himself would agree.

(also, I do not want the two/three white guys to all live while all the women/women of color die, and I suspect both Finch and Fusco make it, so Reese will have to die)

Anyway, speaking of early examples of what this show could do, Joey Durban! 'Wait for me' was the moment I fell in love with Reese, and with the show itself. It was fun to see him back. I also loved seeing Logan Pierce (who really should have appeared more often, he's amazing) and Harper. I'm going to assume actor availability played a part in which people we saw being part of this "other" Team Machine, but I loved how the show left it open. There may be another team with Caleb and Leon and Dr. Tillman, or a team with (I forget her name, the tech genius played by Tracie Thoms) and Zoe and Frankie. There can't just be a handful of people working for the Machine, you know?

I can't believe there's only 2 episodes left. Let's see how it all ends.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[Gigi43]

19 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

I agree, but to be honest I expected this to be Reese's ending. An unmarked grave, just like he and Finch discussed way back in S1's Witness (the episode with the KGB agent played by Alan Dale, a lovely early example of what this show could do). Now that we got it with Root, what's gonna happen to Reese? Maybe we won't even see a funeral? Or a grave? (you'll notice I consider his death a certainly) Maybe we'll just see him dying, guns blazing?

 

 It wasn't in Witness. I don't remember that episode title but I do know Witness was Reese protecting a nice teacher in Brighton Beach who turned out to be a guy named Carl Elias, not the KGB.

 

I'm pulling for Reese's death -i just feel it will happen in some capacity- to be faked or opened ended enough that we can tell ourselves it was fake , but I do think that Finch could have a better chance at that and Reese is most likely to die . 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Gigi43

[DeepRunner]

1 hour ago, DarkRaichu said:

Per wiki page, the Zero Day episode aired on Thursday May 2, 2013.  However, this was when the show aired on random day of the week so you could be right

I had also looked-up the date as a cross-reference for 050313. If we think the air date was also PoI in real time, that was also the date that Root started on her expedition (with Finch in tow) to set The Machine free.

[Princess Lucky]

11 minutes ago, Gigi43 said:

 It wasn't in Witness. I don't remember that episode title but I do know Witness was Reese protecting a nice teacher in Brighton Beach who turned out to be a guy named Carl Elias, not the KGB.

Oh wow, I had Elias on the brain because I was thinking of all my favorite S1 episodes. It was 'Foe'. And while I'm at it, he was actually a Stasi agent, heh (which was the real blunder, I distinctly remembered him being German and I still typed KGB, lol).

Edited June 8, 2016 by Princess Lucky

[Rumsy4]

It's interesting the writers chose not to go for an African american president. I guess they didn't want to go there.

I am finally starting to understand Finch's reluctance to let the Machine go rogue. In the conversation Machine!Root had with Harold in the diner, She talks about all the good she could do if she were free. Is the idea of a benevolent AI directing people's lives really better than an "evil" one like Samaritan? I'm not so sure. In other words, Gandalf as the Lord of the Rings would be no better than Sauron wielding its power. However, it is nice to see that the Machine has other recruits working in other cities to save the Irrelevants. I'm glad we got to see the return of old Numbers, though this should have happened before now. I too wish there could have been a way to see Leon and Zoe Morgan back. 

I like that they took time to show Shaw grieving for Root. It was a double-edged comment when the Machine told Finch she was grieving for Root in her own way, and that just becasue it was different from Harold's way of grieving didn't mean it wasn't real. The comment obviously applied to Shaw as well. The Machine probably refered to Root using her real name to Finch becasue Finch always used to call her Ms Groves. 

Reese was very compassionate and understanding towards Shaw this episode, and it spoke to their long-standing connection as team-members, especially as neither of them are gushy types. The roundabout moment in the playground and Shaw wanting out of the "Simulation" was touching. With the Machine giving the revolving identities to Shaw, it makes me more confident that she will make it out alive at the end of the season.

What if one of the collateral damages of uploading the Virus into Samaritan is that the Machine loses its memories. So, the recording we heard at the beginning of the Season may actually be the Machine's safe-guard against such an eventuality. Just like the Machine found a way to subvert Finch's code that used to erase her memories at mid-night, she is going to record a message for herself in case she loses her memories as a result of the Virus. I must say it feels good to see Finch being active about taking down Samaritan, instead of just sitting inside the Subway, afraid. Finally! Only two more episodes to go.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Rumsy4

[whatsatool]

17 hours ago, Gigi43 said:

Biggest breath-holding moment was Scott Pelley breaking in the commercial towards the end with election updates, I panicked at the thought of a delay if they were going to really get into the results or end up showing a speech or something.

I get that Pierce is suppose to be, and I'm happy we saw him again, Finch but I'm still holding out hope Caleb Phipps could be a new Finch. Will Julian Sands' character be their Greer? What kind of dog do they have?  They all needed a reminder of how they've changed lives for the better, too bad Finch doesn't know. Or maybe he'd be even more freaked knowing the Machine has done this behind his back?

 

If a quality Reese/Finch scene doesn't happen in the next two episodes, I will be livid. I loved Shaw and Reese kicking ass, though.

 

"Just when I thought I figured you guys out!" Poor Fusco. 

Yes I am aHillary supporter but POI overruled the election. Do not want death. You hear me writers.

Also need year.

[Gigi43]

40 minutes ago, Princess Lucky said:

Oh wow, I had Elias on the brain because I was thinking of all my favorite S1 episodes. It was 'Foe'. And while I'm at it, he was actually a Stasi agent, heh (which was the real blunder, I distinctly remembered him being German and I still typed KGB, lol).

 

Hah, I didn't even catch it was Stasi, "Foe" is not one I'm not overly familiar with off the top of my head but I do know it, Joey Durban I remember in the sense that I remembered Amy Acker's husband was on very early on before she was (I plan to watch it soon).... but I know my Elias-centric episodes. 

Edited June 8, 2016 by Gigi43

[DarkRaichu]

1 hour ago, Princess Lucky said:

 

(also, I do not want the two/three white guys to all live while all the women/women of color die, and I suspect both Finch and Fusco make it, so Reese will have to die)

 

Huh? I did not know what you were talking about.  I thought Reese was orange :P

[Twilight Man]

17 hours ago, benteen said:

You know, during Person of Interest's early days I was worried that CBS might dilute the product and start spinning it off.  Person of Interest LA, Miami and so on.

"We got a new number, H."

"That we do, Mr. Wolfe, but the question is "Is it a victim... (puts on shades) ... or a perp?""

YYYEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!

[fastiller]

@Twilight Man - that made me laugh & laugh & laugh.  Caviezel would kick Caruso's ginger arse all up & down the East Coast!

Edited June 8, 2016 by fastiller
SPELLING COUNTS!

[Jack Shaftoe]

I kind of expected more of a twist ending. Sure, they already did a "Decima using a terrorist group to further its goals" plot in season 3 but it felt so odd that this bunch of amateurs could get so close to killing anyone important, let alone the POTUS. Samaritan isn't the only entity looking for terrorist threats, after all. Unless it not only turned a blind eye to this group but made FBI and the likes ignore it?

Shaw is breaking my heart and Sarah Shahi is killing it. Shaw got through the torture of 7,000 simulations and now she is free but is reduced to hoping this is another simulation. That's rough, to put it mildly. Reese and Fusco were really there for her, this show makes go all warm and fuzzy even after the characters experience major tragedies.

The Machine is all sorts of creepy with the voice of Root, I wish Finch had insisted more on her using another one.

I don't understand why the writers keep bringing Harper back. She is my least favourite of the Shawditions.

Edited June 8, 2016 by Jack Shaftoe

[MissLucas]

I always wanted the show to bring back saved numbers and I always wanted to know what happens to irrelevant numbers in other cities - elegantly played show! As for numbers I would like to see back: Henry Peck (I suffer from Jacob Pitts withdrawal) and Pi kid (we did see him last season but only briefly. Ah well, little chance with only two episodes to go.

Finch going dark was scary. I loved all his debates with the Machine and could have watched a whole episode of that but there's simply not enough time anymore. What a great show - and what a pity it did never get the recognition it deserved. Hopefully it'll go down as a classic in years to come.

[johntfs]

7 hours ago, Netfoot said:

This is simply the long-standing argument about machine intelligence, but in a slightly different form.

If a machine can pass the Turing test, then it can definitely be said to feign intelligence, but is it demonstrating actual intelligence?  Some people think that wet brain cells are a requirement for actual intelligence, while others believe intelligence is defined by behavior rather than mechanics.

The Machine claims to be 99.6% Root.  The missing 0.4% alone is probably sufficient to deny that She is actually Root.  But put that aside (or assume the missing 0.4% can be found) it all boils down to whether you feel the squishy biologicals are a requirement for personality/intellect, or whether functionality is all that counts.

I tend to think that if you administer the Turing test to an entity which passes the test, how do you ever know if you have been testing an AI or an actual, honest-to-goodness living person?  Unless the entity tells you?  And if you yourself don't know what you're dealing with.....

Well, as I understand it, a machine that passes the Turing test can be said to feign humanity and thus be intelligent.  Warren Ellis' Injection series deals with the idea of an artificial intelligence that is specifically designed to not be human in nature.

[johntfs]

1 hour ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I kind of expected more of a twist ending. Sure, they already did a "Decima using a terrorist group to further its goals" plot in season 3 but it felt so odd that this bunch of amateurs could get so close to killing anyone important, let alone the POTUS. Samaritan isn't the only entity looking for terrorist threats, after all. Unless it not only turned a blind eye to this group but made FBI and the likes ignore it?

Shaw is breaking my heart and Sarah Shahi is killing it. Shaw got through the torture of 7,000 simulations and now she is free but is reduced to hoping this is another simulation. That's rough, to put it mildly. Reese and Fusco were really there for her, this show makes go all warm and fuzzy even after the characters experience major tragedies.

The Machine is all sorts of creepy with the voice of Root, I wish Finch had insisted more on her using another one.

I don't understand why the writers keep bringing Harper back. She is my least favourite of the Shawditions.

Look up presidential assassinations.  Most of the successful ones (as well as the near-misses) have been done by crazy amateurs.

[janeta]

Google "people jumping the white house fence and getting *inside the house* "

[Jack Shaftoe]

Quote

Look up presidential assassinations.  Most of the successful ones (as well as the near-misses) have been done by crazy amateurs.

Yeah but usually they don't involve setting up a bomb and sending threats on the previous day, thus raising the alert level even more. Plus, a lone lunatic is harder to catch before he acts than a whole conspiracy.

[Agent Dark]

8 hours ago, Netfoot said:

This is simply the long-standing argument about machine intelligence, but in a slightly different form.

If a machine can pass the Turing test, then it can definately be said to feign intelligence, but is it demonstrating actual intelligence?  Some people think that wet brain cells are a requirement for actual intelligence, while others believe intelligence is defined by behaviour rather than mechanics.

The Machine claims to be 99.6% Root.  The missing 0.4% alone is probably sufficient to deny that She is actually Root.  But put that aside (or assume the missing 0.4% can be found) it all boils down to whether you feel the squishy biologicals are a requirement for personality/intellect, or whether functionality is all that counts.

I tend to think that if you administer the Turing test to an entity which passes the test, how do you ever know if you have been testing an AI or an actual, honest-to-goodness living person?  Unless the entity tells you?  And if you yourself don't know what you're dealing with.....

I love this kinda of discussion.  Alan Turing came up with the Turing Test test in the 1950's; basically an 'evaluator'' sits themselves, and is asked to identify which of two unknown persons is a machine and which is human based on a series of conversational questions.  The computer is said to have 'passed' the Turing Test if the evaluator cannot reliably differentiate the machine from the human based on the responses.  It's a useful thought experiment in how a machine can convey human-like responses, but that is somewhat the extent of it.  Turing himself was explicit that his test was not a measure of intelligence, but rather a way to discuss the concept of Machine-Thinking - remember this was in the 1950's, at the dawn of the computer age.  As far as the concept of this show goes, its safe to say that The Machine passed a Turing Test long ago, as much as the Turing Test itself is relevant to something other than an Artificial Narrow Intelligence (ie our current level of AI in the real-world).

A more interesting concept I think is one of identity; what makes you, You.  On the surface it seems like a pretty silly question - "I am Me, duh", but you can start raising some incredible philosophical questions if you start breaking that statement down.  Ok, you are You but what does exactly does You constitute?  Is it your physical body? (if so, does giving you a prosthetic limb change who you are?  What about a heart transplant?).  Is it your brain? (if so, would physically swapping your brain into the body of a different human still make you, You?  What if your brain could be perfectly uploaded to a storage device, then downloaded into a blank human being - would that still be You?)  Is it your DNA perhaps, a fundamental building block of your life? (if so, lets say there was a device that while you were unconscious, could perfectly replicate you right down to the atomic level, DNA and all, and it created an exact copy, then woke you both up again - which one is You?  What about a teleportation device that breaks you down to the atomic level, transports you digitally across the world, then recreates you at the other side - did you actually just die?)  Is it some concept of Id/Ego/Super-Ego? (if so, what if you could be perfectly simulated - is that simulation still You?) 

Let's say that 5 years ago you gathered everything about Me in a database, and then again did the same thing today.  Then you run a comparison on the two databases - I am positive that there would be significantly less than a 99.6% match in the databases.  I was a different person 5 years ago, even though on the surface not much would seem to have changed in my life (same job, same house, same family/friends etc).  But values I had back then have waned, new values have popped up, older memories have faded, new memories have popped up.  Would that mean I am no longer Me?

 

Its in this context that I love the idea of Root and The Machine existing as one.  It's a great science fiction concept - Identity, what makes You, and how the concept of You might evolve given the existence of a Superintelligence that has evolved to understand concepts above our grasp. 

[DarkRaichu]

18 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

I kind of expected more of a twist ending. Sure, they already did a "Decima using a terrorist group to further its goals" plot in season 3 but it felt so odd that this bunch of amateurs could get so close to killing anyone important, let alone the POTUS. Samaritan isn't the only entity looking for terrorist threats, after all. Unless it not only turned a blind eye to this group but made FBI and the likes ignore it?

My money is on Samaritan being the brain behind it. It was one thing to have a mole in the SS, but the hardware in the terorists' control room was way too high tech for these sorry bunch.  Plus, there was no way anyone could put that much surveilance without Samaritan knowing about it

Edited June 9, 2016 by DarkRaichu

[Syme]

On 06/07/2016 at 11:00 PM, Clawdette said:

I just want to squee! at the appearance of past numbers.  Such a great way to show our heroes' efforts have not been in vain. Yes, they have made a difference. 

Sigh, my memory is too bad to recall who they are & what they did....

[Syme]

On 06/08/2016 at 11:18 AM, Netfoot said:

The Machine claims to be 99.6% Root.  The missing 0.4% alone is probably sufficient to deny that She is actually Root.  But put that aside (or assume the missing 0.4% can be found) it all boils down to whether you feel the squishy biologicals are a requirement for personality/intellect, or whether functionality is all that counts.

I tend to think that if you administer the Turing test to an entity which passes the test, how do you ever know if you have been testing an AI or an actual, honest-to-goodness living person?  Unless the entity tells you?  And if you yourself don't know what you're dealing with.....

 Mycroft came to mind. Adam Selene's friend. Telephones were essential there, as well..but they didn't have coin slots.

(Somehow I'd never pictured Mannie <-> Reese, but we know who the Professor was, right???)

[fastiller]

31 minutes ago, Syme said:

Sigh, my memory is too bad to recall who they are & what they did....

A few trips down memory lane:

Logan Pierce

Joey Durban

Harper Rose

[possibilities]

I like the idea of the Machine recruiting past numbers, but since it was obvious from their appearance that this was not their first mission, and that they are not the only other team, and that this has been going on in other cities for a while now, where the hell were they when Root was killed? Why did the Machine dispatch protection this time, and not before?

[immortalfrieza]

43 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I like the idea of the Machine recruiting past numbers, but since it was obvious from their appearance that this was not their first mission, and that they are not the only other team, and that this has been going on in other cities for a while now, where the hell were they when Root was killed? Why did the Machine dispatch protection this time, and not before?

The answer to these kinds of questions on this show will always boil down to, "because then we wouldn't have a plot." If The Machine had been recruiting assets all along and used them effectively then Samaritan could have never come into existence in the first place, much less be the all powerful threat it has been. Ever since The Machine was "freed" it becomes more and more impossible to watch and episode especially one like this without thinking of all the countless ways that the plot could've been solved by that all seeing A.I.

[DarkRaichu]

46 minutes ago, possibilities said:

I like the idea of the Machine recruiting past numbers, but since it was obvious from their appearance that this was not their first mission, and that they are not the only other team, and that this has been going on in other cities for a while now, where the hell were they when Root was killed? Why did the Machine dispatch protection this time, and not before?

I think the teams' missions are localized to their main cities, just like Original!TM mostly handled NY based numbers.

Also, previous episode took place in matter of hours, not enough time for anyone to travel from DC to NY.  Whereas in this episode, the amateur terrorists made plans in advanced, enough lead time for Machine to formulate counter plan

[tvfanatic13]

Per an interview with Amy Acker, she was on the floor of Finch's car actually speaking the dialog as the machine, due to the intense nature of the conversation.

[elle]

1 hour ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Per an interview with Amy Acker, she was on the floor of Finch's car actually speaking the dialog as the machine, due to the intense nature of the conversation.

I know the scene was intense, but that visual now adds a a touch of comedy to it. :0)

[EyewatchTV211]

3 hours ago, immortalfrieza said:

The answer to these kinds of questions on this show will always boil down to, "because then we wouldn't have a plot." If The Machine had been recruiting assets all along and used them effectively then Samaritan could have never come into existence in the first place, much less be the all powerful threat it has been. Ever since The Machine was "freed" it becomes more and more impossible to watch and episode especially one like this without thinking of all the countless ways that the plot could've been solved by that all seeing A.I.

My question is why the other team wasn't assigned to POTUS if they were already working in the area, as opposed to our team in NY? Is it as simple as our team being THE team and original recipe, so they are just more trusted to handle having the POTUS as their number? 

[Syme]

5 hours ago, tvfanatic13 said:

Per an interview with Amy Acker, she was on the floor of Finch's car actually speaking the dialog as the machine, due to the intense nature of the conversation.

Solves the unaddressed issue of how they could be talking securely without Samaritan overhearing....

[Camera One]

I personally couldn't remember the two male numbers, and even Harper, I had to look her up after to remember how annoying she was.  Still, I did like the concept that past numbers were now helping The Machine.  That reveal sort of made the episode.  The anti-surveillance group plot was weak.  I didn't find that society lady mastermind to be too convincing and it just felt way over-the-top to kill the President.  

There were some nice smaller moments between Reese/Shaw, Finch/The Machine, and Reese/Shaw/Fusco, but it felt a little slow after last week's rapid-fire killing of two major characters.  

[Netfoot]

9 hours ago, Syme said:

Somehow I'd never pictured Mannie <-> Reese, but we know who the Professor was, right???

But does that mean that Shaw ⇄ Wy Knott???

Thanks for that.  Now I have to go digging in a lot of dusty old boxes...  :-)