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Degrassi Next Class season two discussion (ABC3/Austraila 5/30-6/10, all episodes worldwide Netflix 7/22, SPOILERS)

MegaJ

By MegaJ
in Degrassi [V]

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Ikki

Ikki

10 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Does Frankie know how to drive yet? She's Hunter's twin and Miles was just teaching him how to drive the convertible so I assume she doesn't have her license yet. I don't know all the rules in Canada. I am thankful they didn't get Frankie into a car crash.

I assume Hunter does know how to drive and likely has a license-- what Miles said was that he needed to teach him to drive stick. He probably knows how to drive automatic, otherwise I don't think Miles would have been able to teach him to drive altogether before he left for boarding school. 

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Chairperson Meow

Chairperson Meow

I just died from laughing at this thread.   I wasn't excited for Mo at the reunion, but he was a dick to Tristan when he was there, so he's cool in my book now.   I also still really loved Peter being honest with Maya.  This tailend of season one was eh in my book, but as a whole season one was great.  Since it's a school show, here are my character grades for this season:  Hunter- A mainly due to acting and overall being watchable, Miles- A- for being great in the first half then going back to a succubus, Maya- D because every season the character gets more insufferable like even the actress hates her, Tristan- F mainly for being the most toxic waste of space since forever, Zoe- B for background which she's sliding into, Zig- B for pleasant, Tiny- A for awesome, Lola- C for average, Shay for A because finally Degrassi learned how to write a black teen, Frankie B- she's smarter than that, Esme- B for effort, Viijay- B for pissing off Maya, Everyone else not Peter- D for needs improvement, be a Dave.  Stand out.   

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Ladystardust

Ladystardust

Is Yael's hair a wig? It's so distracting - it just overpowers her face. Between the hair and glasses, it looks like she's wearing a disguise. 

I really don't get the obsession all the guys have with Maya. She's pretty average looking and her personality sucks. 

I'm not sure I like where the self-harm storyline is going. Mostly that she posts it online. It just feeds the stigma that people self-harm for attention. Of course I was in school before social media so maybe that is more common now? I liked the Ellie self-harm storyline better. 

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Chairperson Meow

Chairperson Meow

6 hours ago, Ladystardust said:

Is Yael's hair a wig? It's so distracting - it just overpowers her face. Between the hair and glasses, it looks like she's wearing a disguise. 

I really don't get the obsession all the guys have with Maya. She's pretty average looking and her personality sucks. 

I'm not sure I like where the self-harm storyline is going. Mostly that she posts it online. It just feeds the stigma that people self-harm for attention. Of course I was in school before social media so maybe that is more common now? I liked the Ellie self-harm storyline better. 

Yes, her hair is a wig,which IMO makes no sense, as the actress is pretty without it.  It's like Maya with the stupid glasses.  Speaking of, I haven't been interested in Maya since she was with Miles, after Cam's suicide, and when she seemed like she was finally going to deal with it.  I like Zig as a character, the actor is growing on me in a Shane Kippel way.  But I'm really not liking Maya at all.  Like, how is the audience to believe that Zig cheating is her biggest heartache?  It should be Maya going "No, I'm not taking you back because the last time we got together, Cam killed himself and it messed me up royally, so screw you." Maya shouldn't be writing feminist theme songs,but songs about Cam. That would be believable.   When Peter asked her "Is this about your ex?" That would've been a great time for Maya to say "Yes, he killed himself in the greenhouse.". Damn.  Continuity, Degrassi.  We're supposed to remember Mo and The Panther and every crisis Tristan gets butt hurt over,but you can't remember a kid who killed himself a year ago on campus?  Or JT?  I'm still salty that no one mentioned JT at the reunion.   Damn.  A moment of silence,a picture,something. Tristian is the worst class president.  Even Claire would've taken a moment from Eli or Drew to do that.  

Also, Ellie had a slow build to her self harm storyline.  I still tear up watching it.  Man, she got no breaks.  Ever.  But she also never sold naked pics of her classmates for money to empower her wallet/self.   

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galax-arena

galax-arena

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Yael's actress has to wear a wig because she either cut her hair really short or shaved it almost all off since her character was initially conceived very differently. Of course, that doesn't explain why they went with such a crappy wig... plus now the actress' hair has grown back to a reasonable length so they could just make up some reason to ditch it. 

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Chairperson Meow

Chairperson Meow

5 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Yael's actress has to wear a wig because she either cut her hair really short or shaved it almost all off since her character was initially conceived very differently. Of course, that doesn't explain why they went with such a crappy wig... plus now the actress' hair has grown back to a reasonable length so they could just make up some reason to ditch it. 

That makes sense.  A bald girl would've been cool tbh.  That wig looks dumb.  It's like she's Hunter's mom flittering about Degrassi.   Sigh.  Everyone is so perfect now.  It's why I adore screwed up Hunter, awkward Tiny, and sleeveless Zig.  They remind me of coked out Craig bleeding onstage as everyone freaked out.  

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)

I do love having the show back, but I have to ask, in what world is drawing black people as primates NOT racist?! I know the show is set in Canada and not in the USA, but I have a hard time believing Frankie could be so ignorant as to do that. She's 15 not 5! A MONKEY?!! Actually it was a gorilla which is an ape.  An ape......

Thank goodness for Shay's Dad who told her how it was.

I 100% believe the Northern tech girls should've been punished for their CRIME of pulling the fire alarm, trespassing, stealing the clothes, and probably should be suspended from a few games at the very least. But I'm amazed at Frankie's (and the other girls) ignorance. "Can I touch your hair?"(ignorant microagression), "Drawing black people as primates"(obviously offensive). 

I am glad Frankie was able to make amends and repair her relationship with her friends. I thought Jonah was well used to get that point across  

It took me a few minutes to recognize Peter, he looks great. It's Charlotte Arnold! One of the best young actresses to come out of Degrassi. 

 

It it was a well written and well arced season. People got equal screen time throughout the episodes and issues were addressed while setting up plot points for next season. I don't know what Gracie sees in Zig though, she can do way better. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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aradia22

aradia22

Quote

I do love having the show back, but I have to ask, in what world is drawing black people as primates NOT racist?! I know the show is set in Canada and not in the USA, but I have a hard time believing Frankie could be so ignorant as to do that. She's 15 not 5!

Yes, point taken, 15 is a little old to be that oblivious. I think the way you're brought up factors in a lot, both the environment and era. With Frankie's background I can see how there might have been a combination of not being in an overtly racist environment where it would come up and then also having a sheltered upbringing (did the Hollingsworth's go to public school before Degrassi?) where you don't talk about that kind of thing in school because it's either deemed unsuitable or there's such a focus on a kind of positive worldview that it glosses over unsavory realities. There's a whole big conversation to be had about the gaps in the education and what gets taught/prioritized. But yes, I agree 15 is pushing it but I could see it ringing a little more true if we were talking about a slightly younger character. I think by 15 you must come across it in some discussion of slavery or eugenics based on my vague memories of history classes.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)
5 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Yes, point taken, 15 is a little old to be that oblivious. I think the way you're brought up factors in a lot, both the environment and era. With Frankie's background I can see how there might have been a combination of not being in an overtly racist environment where it would come up and then also having a sheltered upbringing (did the Hollingsworth's go to public school before Degrassi?) where you don't talk about that kind of thing in school because it's either deemed unsuitable or there's such a focus on a kind of positive worldview that it glosses over unsavory realities. There's a whole big conversation to be had about the gaps in the education and what gets taught/prioritized. But yes, I agree 15 is pushing it but I could see it ringing a little more true if we were talking about a slightly younger character. I think by 15 you must come across it in some discussion of slavery or eugenics based on my vague memories of history classes.

 

I think the writers had to hit us over the head with it to get the point across. I like Frankie as a character, and more than anything I'm glad she could learn from this and make it up to her team/friends. I'm also glad Lola gave her blessing for Tiny and Shay. The writers are doing a good job showing the kids evolve and mature, which is what the show is about. 

Is season 2 starting in January?

Edited by Scarlett45
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possibilities

possibilities

I think part of the point is that ignorance is not an excuse. Even if you truly were somehow so sheltered and oblivious that you didn't realize what it meant, you should still understand, once it's pointed out to you, that your ignorance is a problem and your actions have consequences anyway.

It's like with Hunter. He was a basket case but he had to start caring about it and thinking about consequences and learning. Racism isn't just about your intention. It's a system of privileges/punishments that exists independent of individual intention, and Frankie showed over and over again that she cared more about her own feelings than those of the people she hurt, as demonstrated by her total unwillingness to listen to what they had to say on multiple occasions.

I really liked that the show took its time developing this story throughout the season, and didn't over simplify it. She had people who wanted to stay close to her and not hold a grudge (like Jonah and Shay) but she didn't listen to them when they tried to help her understand what was going on, either. It is a real character flaw to be so up your own ass that you don't care how you impact others, and to try to claim that you're the victim when you're the one who made a mistake, and refuse to understand what's happening.

I liked Miles and Tristan this season. I thought they were both equally at fault in every episode, and I liked that they finally started communicating, even if it was awkward and messy.

I hope no one dies on the bus.

Grace is the only person in the entire school who I personally would date or consider interesting enough to date, so I find it shocking that she's considered so "out there" that no one would want her. I guess they had Baaz, but he's so horrible, and also I don't understand why they think a person like him would be attracted to a person like her.

I am glad they finally decided that girls can do something other than cheering, and gave them volleyball. I know Katie wanted to play soccer, but they never really bothered to show us much about the team, and it really annoyed me that the primary focus of all girldom was cheering, and that's all. Girls usually do have other sports going on-- let's see some basketball, too.

I loved it when the girl from the other school asked Shay if she ever got tired of being the bigger person, and Shay finally had a meltdown over having to give so much up. Lola was so cavalier about principles in the abstract, and I think it's great she started to clue into a few things outside her ditz bubble, but she had nothing at stake besides principle, so it's easier for her. Ditto Frankie. I love that they showed all that.

Likewise, Maya deciding to find a win-win solution with the kid who covered her song-- she didn't need to make an enemy, she found a way to creatively help herself AND keep a fan.

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greekmom

greekmom

On 8/6/2016 at 7:38 PM, Scarlett45 said:

I do love having the show back, but I have to ask, in what world is drawing black people as primates NOT racist?! I know the show is set in Canada and not in the USA, but I have a hard time believing Frankie could be so ignorant as to do that. She's 15 not 5! A MONKEY?!! Actually it was a gorilla which is an ape.  An ape......

Thank goodness for Shay's Dad who told her how it was.

I think the point was that racism isn't just black and white (no pun intended).

What really bothered me about the whole racism poster thing is that (and I may have to watch it over again), was the whole team painted as apes/monkeys?  If Frankie would have painted the captain as an elephant (and the captain was overweight - omg Frankie is calling her fat), zebra (and she's questioning the captain's parents?) or donkey (questioning the captain's being lazy or not?) would she still have gotten in trouble and called racist?  I don't think Frankie is racist like I don't think that the other team is trying to push "child pornography". (remember they took the girls clothes and made them run outside half naked. Which in today's standards with kids having phones would be instantly photographed and posted, shared whatnot. Half naked young girls). 

I think the problem is that these are teens being stupid teens and that the other team that attacked the volleyball team first are crying foul because they can dish it but they can't take it. 

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)
8 hours ago, greekmom said:

I think the point was that racism isn't just black and white (no pun intended).

What really bothered me about the whole racism poster thing is that (and I may have to watch it over again), was the whole team painted as apes/monkeys?  If Frankie would have painted the captain as an elephant (and the captain was overweight - omg Frankie is calling her fat), zebra (and she's questioning the captain's parents?) or donkey (questioning the captain's being lazy or not?) would she still have gotten in trouble and called racist?  I don't think Frankie is racist like I don't think that the other team is trying to push "child pornography". (remember they took the girls clothes and made them run outside half naked. Which in today's standards with kids having phones would be instantly photographed and posted, shared whatnot. Half naked young girls). 

I think the problem is that these are teens being stupid teens and that the other team that attacked the volleyball team first are crying foul because they can dish it but they can't take it. 

Hi, I don't think the entire team was painted as apes, the entire team was painted as animals. While drawing an overweight person as an elephant isn't polite/in poor taste, it doesn't have the same cultural and historical implication as drawing a black person as a non human primate. It just doesn't.

Am I saying this was equal to Frankie drawing a hanging man/burning cross or a swasticka? Of course not, but she should have apologized. Some things you just don't joke about. I would never draw a Jewish person being cooked in an oven (even if I was referencing Hanzel and Gretel, a non anti-Semitic fairy tale) or a Muslim person with a weapon of mass destruction.

A simple "You know, what I did was inappropriate, it wasn't my intention to be offensive, and I didn't realize the implications of my actions, and how they would hurt others I'm very sorry.", would've sufficed. The idea that she didn't realize the school was called "The Zoo" at least partly due to the ethnic makeup of its students is laughably naive.

Just like I think the other team should've been punished/suspended from playing for pulling the fire alarm (which is illegal), and I would've 100% supported them for being forbidden for playing for that, but their prank wasn't an attack on any of the students personally.

As someone said above I'm surprised Goldie didn't speak up regarding that drawing. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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greekmom

greekmom

On 8/28/2016 at 1:28 PM, meatball77 said:

They explained it fairly well with the assignment where Zoe dressed up like a geisha.  She came back said what she did was unintentionally racist, she understands that and apologized.

I don't agree with Zoe being called a racist. I think it was more culturally insensitive. Geisha wouldn't have been the BEST choice to dress up to represent Japanese culture. And Winston hit it on the money. Because he looks Asian since he is Korean he gets a pass on dressing up in Japanese army uniform?   If Zoe dressed up in general period clothing from that time and culture it would have been acceptable for that presentation despite the fact she isn't Asian or Japanese specifically.

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

1 hour ago, Judi Sunshine said:

I kind of like Yael's wig -- it feels in keeping with her gamer character!

I kind of like everything about Yael. She's a character not seen often in tv/film. Introverted and very intelligent, but not in a "asshole genius way". 

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galax-arena

galax-arena

I'm watching "the Principal's Office" on youtube, where the cast members give their thoughts on the eps. Stefan Brogren is saying that as much as he loves Ricardo, he doesn't ship Grace and Zig because "Grace is better than Zig." Preach! 

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paceyjwitter

paceyjwitter

I watched that video, too. It continues to baffle me that what Grace did to Zoe is consistently ignored. I know she's dying. I also know you can't help sexual orientation, but when exactly is she going to finally be called out on knowingly sleeping with a lesbian? That's the major reason why I don't consider her "better than Zig". Maya, absolutely, but not Grace. At least he had the balls to turn her down instead of pretending to be into her. 

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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

(edited)
On September 19, 2016 at 8:28 PM, paceyjwitter said:

I watched that video, too. It continues to baffle me that what Grace did to Zoe is consistently ignored. I know she's dying. I also know you can't help sexual orientation, but when exactly is she going to finally be called out on knowingly sleeping with a lesbian? That's the major reason why I don't consider her "better than Zig". Maya, absolutely, but not Grace. At least he had the balls to turn her down instead of pretending to be into her. 

I don't think Grace mislead Zoe in the sense that she was using her or playing with her feelings. I think Grace liked Zoe as a friend, and was moved by that, and decided to be intimate but afterwards realized it wasn't for her even though she liked Zoe a lot. 

I think if Zoe had been a guy, and after sex Grace had decided she didn't want to do it again because she wasn't into him like that, people would applaud Grace for standing up for herself and knowing what she wanted. 

I'm glad Zig respecting Grace enough not to lead her on (he does seem to value their friendship), but Grace can do better. 

Edited by Scarlett45
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paceyjwitter

paceyjwitter

(edited)

The major problem with Grace's part in the story is that she received zero focus until season 2. The Degrassi writers were so adamant on shocking their audience that they set up a story that made little sense, leading to the Zig/Grace mess. The problem is that Zoe WASN'T a guy. Zoe was a closeted lesbian struggling with her sexuality. Grace had numerous chances to inform Zoe that she did not return her feelings and she chose to keep quiet. Considering Grace had been Zoe's friend for months and it was clear Zoe was willing to hang around Grace without there being anything sexual, I cannot understand why Grace went along with it. Yes, it would have been hard and maybe Zoe wouldn't have taken it well, but had she been straightforward sooner, it could have saved herself, Zoe and others a lot of pain. 

Again, I can't agree with that. Zig has done a lot  wrong, but he showed Grace respect that Grace did not show Zoe by turning her down instead of leading her on. I don't see how Grace is better than him. Especially considering they both fucked over Maya, in a way. 

Edited by paceyjwitter
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Scarlett45

Scarlett45

@paceyjwitter I guess I saw it that Grace did think she returned Zoe's feelings which is why they had sex, but afterwards she realized she didn't feel the same. Of course it's possible Grace was so lonely and desperate for an emotional connection she wasn't forthright with Zoe, but based on what we saw that wasn't my conclusion. I wish they would give the girls a chance to talk about it and rebuild their friendship (if they both want to. )

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galax-arena

galax-arena

(edited)

Because Zig KNEW that he wasn't into Grace. Grace otoh was clearly (IMO) confused/ambivalent about her feelings for Zoe at the time. It took actually having sex with Zoe for her feelings to crystallize; it's not like she led Zoe on after that. The two situations are not the same to me. 

Edited by galax-arena
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paceyjwitter

paceyjwitter

(edited)

If we had only seen that instead of us having to jump to our own conclusions, I might find her more sympathetic. I never saw evidence that Grace was confused. All she ever said is "I tried for you." So if I'm interpreting this correctly, Grace knew she did not like Zoe that way but she tried to in order to salvage the friendship. I'm not going to pretend Grace is evil for doing that because I don't believe she ever wanted to cause anyone pain, but the fact is that she did and I cannot understand the writers keeping her part in the Zoe/Zig/Maya mess a secret when she set it all in motion. I mean, not even Maya is allowed to call her out for what she said at the party or for making a move on her ex. What kind of sense does that make? This is a girl who is, time and time again, presented as "woke" and the only sane person in the cast. She calls the others out for being dumb. She educates them when necessary. However, she's equally flawed and I think it's time the writers started writing her this way instead of having her turn her nose up at everyone else. 

Edited by paceyjwitter
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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

I finally caught up. My favorite couple is definitely Miles and Tris. They have always had great chemistry, but they are finally being honest with each other and communicating.

I like Hunter, but I think that overall the cyberbullying story was not well resolved. It was just dropped and other than Hunter none of the bullies were given sufficient punishment.

On the other hand, I thought the racism story was very well done and addressed white privilege in a realistic way.

Edited by SimoneS
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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)

I did think that Tiny's suspension was unfair. I am glad that the Marco talked about how the zero tolerance policy has structural and racial inequalities.

I also loved seeing Liberty, Holly J, Craig, Marco, Paige, Emma, and Spinner. Spinner looked so different with spiky hair.

I didn't realize that was Peter until I read the posts above. He looks so different now. He is very adult good looking.

ETA: I also love how Miles is invested in his relationship with Tristan unlike before. Tris still loves Miles more, but the relationship is more balanced with Miles doing what it takes to make it work. It is great to see them in love and working out their issues together. I don't think Degrassi has ever tackled sex between two male characters so directly. I thought it was very well done.

Edited by SimoneS
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Falafel

Falafel

(edited)

First off, I just want to say: I am 32 and I don't understand why I enjoy this kids show so much. I just burned through the first two seasons on Netflix in about three days and I'll try to pace myself on the last one, but I feel like this show just tackles so many topics that are relevant and has so many random plots, that even though I'm too old for it, I love it. Sometimes I get so frustrated with the way the characters fail to articulate or understand things like feminism and racism, but it's interesting that this show goes for such heavy, complicated topics.

Since I sped right through the season, I can only give some overall thoughts:

-Why are we (meaning all the characters and the Degrassi universe) ok with the kids who participated in Maya's harassment now? They threatened to rape her and kill her - that was beyond fucked up. The way I understand it, Hunter sent the SWAT team to her house, and it hasn't been specified but maybe the worst threats were Hunter's -- but it's not like the other kids didn't see what she was getting as the result of what they participated in. Maya recorded a song with that flamboyant kid, which I thought was ridiculous, and how can Yael possibly be ok with Hunter now?

-Speaking of Hunter, he went for some treatment and now he's magically better or something? Now suddenly he is super caring? I would still be terrified to be around him. The storyline and his redemption arc, although not quite complete, feels a little light for rape threats and bringing a gun to school.

-This is a minor thing, but it still bugs me: Lola was the one who made a comment about the Northern Tech (?) kids looking like criminals. That was clearly a racist comment -- it jumped out to me the second she said it, like "What exactly does that mean?" And then we saw that they were all black. Are we supposed to take from the protest she organized for Tiny that she understands her own prejudices now? Because she still seems as dumb as a pile of rocks to me.

-On that note, I actually think what Frankie did was less racist than Lola's comment. I don't mean to get into the debate that is debated on the show, but I really don't think Frankie had any clue or association when she did that -- she was just ignorant. Her fault was in failing to listen to the concerns of other people and realize that, even if she didn't mean it, it hurt people, it had context she didn't understand, and it was wrong and she should be contrite. Lola saying a bunch of black kids -- ones she only sees in volleyball clothes, mind you -- look like criminals is pretty basic context to understand. Maybe the point of including Lola's comment was to show that Frankie isn't the only one who fails to identify racism where it exists and it's a widespread issue? I don't know, but that comment Lola made stuck with me enough that I went back and re-watched it.

-Miles strikes me as a very manipulative person with a ton of issues. I feel like he only likes Tristan because no matter what a piece of shit Miles is, Tristan is desperate enough that he keeps forgiving him. I have a hard time believing Miles is actually into Tristan. Miles seems to just like attention. And man, my high school life AND adulthood have been sad if a 17-year-old (?) like Miles' number was already five, hah.

-It feels like being gay isn't a huge deal as much these days, but I know someone out there is watching Zoe's storyline and finding comfort because when you're 15, everything is scary. That's part of why I always loved Degrassi -- representation for people who don't always feel represented. The self-harm stuff makes me cringe big time though. It's frankly something I have a hard time understanding and something I can't imagine just pops into a kid's brain, so I sit here and wonder if it gives kids ideas. I sound old and crotchety now -- I'm sure there was self-harm on Degrassi when I was a kid and I can't say it looked interesting to me. But I guess that's just one of those things about being an adult watching this show, heh.

-Lastly, I hated that episode where the old cast members came back. It sounds fun on paper, but I felt it was awkward, pandering and kind of a throwaway episode. Part of me thought some of the actors had a look on their face as they delivered their lines, like "Oh my god, this show is so cheesy. This is what I used to do? This is mortifying."

P.S. Who wants to start a charity so we can buy Zig some sleeves?

Edited by Falafel
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Ikki

Ikki

49 minutes ago, Falafel said:

-It feels like being gay isn't a huge deal as much these days, but I know someone out there is watching Zoe's storyline and finding comfort because when you're 15, everything is scary. That's part of why I always loved Degrassi -- representation for people who don't always feel represented. The self-harm stuff makes me cringe big time though. It's frankly something I have a hard time understanding and something I can't imagine just pops into a kid's brain, so I sit here and wonder if it gives kids ideas. I sound old and crotchety now -- I'm sure there was self-harm on Degrassi when I was a kid and I can't say it looked interesting to me. But I guess that's just one of those things about being an adult watching this show, heh.

P.S. Who wants to start a charity so we can buy Zig some sleeves?

1

On the self-harm stuff, I have to say that it can, in fact, be something that just pops into a kid's brain. I have spoken with other self-harmers who began harming at a time when they really had no context for it, or viewed it as something very negative and "emo" yet did it anyway. I myself was six when I began self-harming, and certainly wasn't watching shows where it was being covered. For me the self-harm scenes were hard to watch but also a bit cathartic.

Also, I would certainly contribute to that charity.

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possibilities

possibilities

I've known self-harmers and it's definitely something they think of on their own. It's been a real eye-opener for me to learn about this, and I think the show does a service by demystifying it a bit, and modeling dealing with it rather than just being shamed or scolded and keeping it secret.

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