S01.E04: At First Sight

[radishcake]

Quote

The next helicopter arrives with two guys and tensions run high for a couple that realize their political views are extremely different.

[RCharter]

I kind of like the new guys.  

I don't think it will work out with Ben/Michelle after the show....I'm positive that the hesitancy he expressed is a real issue.  Unfortunately I think he picked wrong when he picked Alex...and frankly if conservative values are THAT important to her, she needs to mention them when she first meets these guys.  I think that she just desperately wanted to go to the villas....and desperately wanted to be picked that she knew better than to say anything.  But thats not fair....if its that important to you, you should say something so a guy isn't wasting his time with you.  Either way, Ben never really had a choice between the two girls.

I also like the basketball player guy.  I was hoping he would choose Dom and TT.  Its funny, I think Dom and Alicia have exact opposite, but equal problems.

Dom doesn't really show a lot of excitement or emotion when she is first meeting a guy and I think that can put them off, or make it so she doesn't stand out from the other women.  I think Alicia shows more excitement, so she gets picked.  But then when Alicia goes to the villa, I think her eager excitement and energy are too much, and guys are put off by that.  

I'm not sure if BT just had too much to drink, or what the deal was, but I hate, hate, hate when people try to nag or nettle me into doing something I don't want to do.  Once he said no that should have just been it......when he said no a second time that really should have been it.  There was no need to lecture him about communication and expression.  If the man doesn't want to talk about sexting he doesn't want to talk about it.  Some people who are in the service get cheated on when they are deployed, so perhaps he had a bad experience with sexting and thats why he doesn't want to talk about it in the house...or on national TV.  And, I don't even  think this is was his partner (J something?) who finally said "if he doesn't want to talk about it, he doesn't have to."  Having said that, the more politic thing to do may have been to just make an excuse and leave, but who knows, maybe he wasn't thinking straight.

And boy, oh boy am I interested in seeing next weeks episode!  If only Imari had waited and not sent that ridiculous text!

[FrancesL]

I can't believe I'm actually watching this show (generally I hate reality shows). but I find it somewhat addicting especially with no shows this summer.  Personality-wise, I think I like Ben the most out of all the guys,partially because his scenes were the least superficial (although we might have Alex to thank for that).  However, it's hard to tell whether he'll be happy with his choice, since it was mainly by default.   Speaking of Alex... her entire personality is just nails on chalkboard for me. However, I'm also now 100% convinced that she's doing this mainly to further her career in the media business and is using the show as her Fox News audition.  

I'm glad that the second guy chose TT. I feel terrible for Talyah (?) though and wish he had picked her as the second lady. She's definitely been the pickiest of the contestants, but that could also be because she can also tell when the guy isn't into her. Not sure what to think about JT. I hate when people try to push me to be a part of things, but his last comment seemed a bit rude. 

Dom seems like a serious person, but I'm glad that Imari got sent away rather than getting another chance. He didn't deserve it. My guess is that Dom was a victim of editing and that her comments about him not showing interest in the relationship were probably true. Imari just seemed to be more interested in impressing the other guys than his own date. If anything, Dom was probably more irritated by the lack of attention, which was compounded by the bad jokes. Also, texting Alicia and telling the other guys that he wanted to send Dom's "a-- back to the bungalow or complaining that most people really like his jokes made me dislike him even more. 

Personally, if I had to choose any of the guys, I'd probably to with the host! I'm sure some of the girls are wishing that he could be one of the guys too.

[RCharter]

^^I agree, I really like the host, and normally I don't really like the host of any reality dating show.  He isn't the best looking guy, but he has a great personality, which makes him look much, much better to me.

[Big Mother]

I think there are only two more episodes left? I think it's a bit unfair for the sixth couple to have to make the same decision in a sixth of the timeframe the first couple has, no?? I'll really miss this show if it indeed almost over.

[Big Mother]

I think there are only two more episodes left? I think it's a bit unfair for the sixth couple to have to make the same decision in a sixth of the timeframe the first couple has, no?? I'll really miss this show if it indeed almost over.

Also: poor Alicia getting her heart broken for the second time! (Interesting side note: she was chosen both times by a black contestant!)

 

I really wanted to see more of the three already-couples.

 

Also, does anyone else think it's unfair that the guys who are coming in later get fewer choices by default? The last two guys will only have four to choose from and 2 two will be left in the cold. This formula needs tweaking.

[Big Mother]

Omg wow. Next week is gonna be crazy! Poor dude, that's what I meant when I said too few choices. At least the show isn't formulaic, every week is different.

[Meraji]

Could someone please clarify that conversation at the dinner when Ashley got so upset and left? Between the bleeping and disjointed pieces of conversation heavily spliced together I'm SO confused what was happening even after watching it twice. Were BT and Ashley upset about the same thing? Was it because the other couples were pressuring him and he personally didn't want to participate or because he was protecting Ashley for whom he figured a sexting topic would be awkward? Or was it something else entirely because either of those scenarios don't seem like they would disappoint/embarrass/anger Ashley enough to flee the table and worry about their relationship. And why did it sound like Ben virtually asked the same question twice but it was the 2nd time that really set BT off? Is that how the game works: ask a question,see the answers, ask an almost identical question?

As for the fairness of later guys and later couples having the same chance as a the early ones, I agree it doesn't seem right. On Bachelor in Paradise there's even less of a chance for the later contestants because you HAVE to pair up to stay from week to week. I like this a little better as the guys only meet eligible women. However, the entry order of guys makes such a huge difference. Maybe the only fair thing to really do would be to force the couples to part after a few days and the women go back into the dating pool. They could still text but just not see each other for a few rounds of new guys. They'd be allowed to reconnect if they wanted to later, but this would prevent the women pool getting too small and would be more fair to later couples (if that matters) because earlier and later couples would have similar length of times together. I've thought a bit too much about this.

[RCharter]

^^I think what really confuses me about the situation is that Ashley (my bad on her name!) never even asked BT what was wrong.  Maybe she did and we didn't see it, but it looked like she just went to her room and was crying about his apparent "meanness."  But maybe he had a good reason to not want to talk about sexting.  Is she not allowed to be in his room at all?  When someone who generally conducts themselves in a cool manner loses it, I would at least want to know why.  Like, what is it about the subject of texting that set him off....was it him trying to protect her......did he have a bad experience?  is he just an angry guy?

[announcergirl]

1 hour ago, Meraji said:

Could someone please clarify that conversation at the dinner when Ashley got so upset and left? Between the bleeping and disjointed pieces of conversation heavily spliced together I'm SO confused what was happening even after watching it twice. Were BT and Ashley upset about the same thing? Was it because the other couples were pressuring him and he personally didn't want to participate or because he was protecting Ashley for whom he figured a sexting topic would be awkward? Or was it something else entirely because either of those scenarios don't seem like they would disappoint/embarrass/anger Ashley enough to flee the table and worry about their relationship. And why did it sound like Ben virtually asked the same question twice but it was the 2nd time that really set BT off? Is that how the game works: ask a question,see the answers, ask an almost identical question?

As for the fairness of later guys and later couples having the same chance as a the early ones, I agree it doesn't seem right. On Bachelor in Paradise there's even less of a chance for the later contestants because you HAVE to pair up to stay from week to week. I like this a little better as the guys only meet eligible women. However, the entry order of guys makes such a huge difference. Maybe the only fair thing to really do would be to force the couples to part after a few days and the women go back into the dating pool. They could still text but just not see each other for a few rounds of new guys. They'd be allowed to reconnect if they wanted to later, but this would prevent the women pool getting too small and would be more fair to later couples (if that matters) because earlier and later couples would have similar length of times together. I've thought a bit too much about this.

Me thinks Ashley has seen BT's mood swing before. It looked to me like she left the table because BT was being an asshole. 

[lilabennet]

I don't like Ben.  Contrary to his opinion about himself that he is a very live and let live kind of guy, he is actually very rigid.  He is one of those liberals who thinks people who don't agree with him just need to be persuaded by his awesome debate skills and if they still don't agree with him, then he thinks there is something wrong with them.  If he was really as loose as he thinks he is, then he wouldn't feel the need to lecture other people into agreeing with him.  I don't like girlAlex, but Ben WAS being extremely condescending during their conversation in the kitchen.  And there was no need for him to basically tell BT that he didn't have a right to feel uncomfortable because they were just playing a game.  Guess what?  Some people aren't comfortable talking about sex in mixed groups of strangers, and there is nothing wrong with that.  If you are fine with it, great.  Don't push your ideas on other people.

[ClareWalks]

Agree that Ben was extremely condescending. I don't know why he was making Alex's conservative views about "you're young, you don't know what's right yet." As if people typically become LESS conservative as they age? What? But Alex should definitely bring it up sooner if it's a dealbreaker, like how Michelle tells the men at their first meeting that she has a son. She knows that if a guy reacts badly to that, it's game over, and Alex should have the guts to put it out there sooner if she is going to make a big deal about it.

[leocadia]

I was going to post the exact same thoughts, @lilabennet and @ClareWalks, but you both stated my feelings about Ben so well.  I don't really care for Alex and I definitely don't agree with all her views, but there was no need for him to be so dismissive of her and what she believes.

I think there's a lot we didn't see regarding the BT/Ashley situation.  It was obviously cobbled together footage because the new guy said they were starting the game about 3 truths and 1 lie, but the very next second they had moved on to some version of "I Never."  It was interesting that Lisa (? - the one paired with Taylor ?) was the one who defended BT and in the previews it looked like they are the two people who break away from their partners.  It may be that some of that was already happening and that's what fed into Ashley's reaction.  The show made it look like she was embarrassed because he didn't want to play the game and that seems highly unreasonable. 

[RCharter]

I just wonder if Ben was looking for a reason to pick Alex over Michelle and thats why he behaved that way.  

Their biggest beef seemed to be over pro-life, pro-choice.  Now, I personally, have never been in that position....but I could see where someone might think that as you get older you might be faced with a pregnancy you didn't plan and may better understand the pro-choice position.  For me, as I've gotten older, I think I've been put in situations that make me understand the "other side" a little better.  The second biggest beef seemed to be over how important it is to raise your kids in a conservative household with conservative values.  It didn't seem as big a deal as the abortion thing.  But I kinda understand the argument that you may be completely idealistic and dogmatic in your views when you're younger and as you live and see more of the world you may start to see that the world isn't super black and white.  However, I think that completely idealistic view applies to people who are both really liberal and really conservative in their youth.  

[call me ishmael]

I think the real issue with Ben is that he wanted to pick Alex over Michelle until he realized that maybe they should have talked before he picked her at the Tiki Bar.   My guess is that he was most attracted to the woman who told him that she really couldn't see being with anyone who wasn't Christian and Alex looks the most like her.  He clearly preferred brunettes to blonds and also probably thought he would look like a creep if he rejected Michelle after his clunky reaction to her having a child.  But i don't think he was prepared for Alex who i don't think is willing to seriously entertain any alternative view points despite her alleged willingness to discuss things.  That is why they both were so "mature " about going their separate ways.

[FrancesL]

Quote

I don't like Ben.  Contrary to his opinion about himself that he is a very live and let live kind of guy, he is actually very rigid.  He is one of those liberals who thinks people who don't agree with him just need to be persuaded by his awesome debate skills and if they still don't agree with him, then he thinks there is something wrong with them.  If he was really as loose as he thinks he is, then he wouldn't feel the need to lecture other people into agreeing with him.  I don't like girlAlex, but Ben WAS being extremely condescending during their conversation in the kitchen

I didn't get that at all. In fact, he made a point of saying that nothing was a deal-breaker and that he was open to differences (which was far less rigid than anything Alex said). He also commented earlier about wanting to be the kind of father that his children could approach with anything (or something like that). I think that his inability to accept her pro-life stance was completely consistent with his liberal viewpoint. Being pro-life, it is not the same as believing in freedom to carry arms, or believing in lower taxes or saying you're a devout Christian.  It is about having a viewpoint that you want imposed on others. One that is ultimately aimed at depriving someone of their right to choose.  To me, it's the one thing that a liberal person would find unacceptable, which is why I didn't find his response hypocritical at all.  Alex was also the one  who insisted that she wanted to marry someone with the same beliefs and wanted to raise her children with those beliefs, whereas Ben didn't think that this should be a dealbreaker. His point about being too young to be that rigid about what you want in life is completely valid. Also, the way she launched the topic of her beliefs wasn't subtle at all, and seemed designed to get a rise out of him. 

Ultimately, I have no idea who Ben would have picked in the end because Alex made that decision for him. I also still have doubts about whether Alex is as conservative as she claims to be, or if a lot of it is just for show. I think her career was her main reason for going on this show, because every time she's in front of the camera, I feel like she's screaming "Hey Fox News, Look at me!" And enough with the I-watch-Fox-News-all the time time comment. If I met someone who claimed to be a die-hard democrat and used the fact that they watched the Colbert report all day long to support their claim, I'm not sure they i'd take them very seriously. either   

[TVGlow]

9 hours ago, leocadia said:

I think there's a lot It was interesting that Lisa (? - the one paired with Taylor ?) was the one who defended BT and in the previews it looked like they are the two people who break away from their partners.  

I rewound it, and while Ashley is the one talking about it, I got the impression Ben was the one Lisa was pursuing, as they were the ones in the water together.

Having said that, my ability to tell reality contestants apart has never been too strong.

[FrancesL]

14 hours ago, RCharter said:

^^I think what really confuses me about the situation is that Ashley (my bad on her name!) never even asked BT what was wrong.  Maybe she did and we didn't see it, but it looked like she just went to her room and was crying about his apparent "meanness."  But maybe he had a good reason to not want to talk about sexting.  Is she not allowed to be in his room at all?  When someone who generally conducts themselves in a cool manner loses it, I would at least want to know why.  Like, what is it about the subject of texting that set him off....was it him trying to protect her......did he have a bad experience?  is he just an angry guy?

I think that a lot gets edited out in this show. Even the conversation at the dinner table felt very edited....the whole situation almost seemed to escalate out of nowhere, which is why I think we didn't get a good feel for what really happened. She probably did speak to BT and we just didn't see it.  I really don't think the editing is really fair to anyone on this show. 

[RCharter]

50 minutes ago, call me ishmael said:

I think the real issue with Ben is that he wanted to pick Alex over Michelle until he realized that maybe they should have talked before he picked her at the Tiki Bar.   My guess is that he was most attracted to the woman who told him that she really couldn't see being with anyone who wasn't Christian and Alex looks the most like her.  He clearly preferred brunettes to blonds and also probably thought he would look like a creep if he rejected Michelle after his clunky reaction to her having a child.  But i don't think he was prepared for Alex who i don't think is willing to seriously entertain any alternative view points despite her alleged willingness to discuss things.  That is why they both were so "mature " about going their separate ways.

I don't watch any other Bachelor type shows* but I would think it would be strange for anyone to really bring that up on a dating show.  I would imagine most people on those shows are pretty......I don't know.....open (that might be the wrong word).

Because she is the one with the dealbreakers, I think its incumbent upon her to bring them up when she meets a guy.  Especially since, as you pointed out, she won't consider alternative viewpoints in an acceptable life partner.

And unfortunately for him, he was sort of in a competition, some of the girls went to the left (can't believe I'm using Tinder logic) because they specifically were more interested in the other guy.

I find both of their reasoning in picking the other a little suspicious.  To me, it didn't seem like Alex was all that into Ben, she just wanted to get picked, and she wanted to go to the villas.  This could be for any number of reasons.....but if I had to guess I would say that she: 1) wanted more camera time to talk about Fox News, 2) was feeling desperate since many of the girls have already been to the villas and she hadn't, 3) thought that if she could get to the couples villa she might be able to reconnect with BT, her conservative wet dream of a man, and 4) attention.

And Ben's reason for picking Alex was based on her living in Louisville  Which was odd.  Like you said, it could have just been based on looks and he didn't want to say anything.

I wish they would just fly in a Romney boy for Alex....are any of his kids single?  Are any of the Palin boys old enough for this show? 

*--I am currently watching Bachelor In Paradise because I heard its a trainwreck....and mommy likee train wreck TV!

Edited June 9, 2016 by RCharter

[PetuniaP]

After seeing how Ben reacted to Michelle's announcement about having a child, I resolved to not be so judgmental about single mothers going out there to find love. It's difficult because many, many men are not interested in taking on your child. And unless you want to be a single mom forever, you do have to go through a lot of frogs. 

[Big Mother]

I looked closely at the episode five preview at the end of the episode and was not shocked to see who were the two cavorting in the water:

Spoiler

Looked like lisa and Ben!

[JudyObscure]

I felt so sorry for Michelle when Ben said he would know he was never going to be number one with her.  It was honest but painful.  Of course if he marries a woman without children, as soon as she has one he probably won't be number one anymore with her either.  I wonder where her son's father is.  It makes a difference if he is around, showing up every weekend or Ben would be the boy's one and only father figure.

It makes me think Michelle might be better off looking for a divorced man with children.  One who is used to the whole idea of blended families.

[Scorpiosunshine]

This show isn't nearly as train-wrecky as I thought it would be. Though I found myself skipping over it in my playlist last week,  I'm now wanting more and was really into when I watched. Thankfully I have tonight's episode! 

On another note, I also think Ashley had seen that side of BT before. It may not have even been anythjng super big, just as if she had some things nagging in her gut. 

Can't wait to see some Bachelor-style "I don't care what people think" partner -swapping and wave-banging in tonight's episode, lol. 

[RCharter]

On 6/9/2016 at 0:18 PM, JudyObscure said:

I felt so sorry for Michelle when Ben said he would know he was never going to be number one with her.  It was honest but painful.  Of course if he marries a woman without children, as soon as she has one he probably won't be number one anymore with her either.  I wonder where her son's father is.  It makes a difference if he is around, showing up every weekend or Ben would be the boy's one and only father figure.

It makes me think Michelle might be better off looking for a divorced man with children.  One who is used to the whole idea of blended families.

I try not to be too close minded, but I always sort of wonder why single parents go on these shows.  

I mean, worst case scenario, you get a single guy who really doesn't want to be second, or doesn't want to be tied down by your children.  Even if you find a guy who already had children, he may not want to have to deal with raising more children, or he may be looking for a woman that can devote time to his children.  And even at best, there are so many complexities in blending families that it just seems like a process that probably goes wrong more often than it goes right.

I'm in my late 30's and I don't have children....by design.....and I think if you've hit your mid-late 30's and you don't have children, more likely than not....its by design and you aren't all that into it unless its the right circumstance...which isn't always helping to raise someone else's kids.

And its why I ultimately think it was unfair for Alex not to mention how important her conservative values were up front.  Ben should have had a real choice, not have to choose Michelle by default.

2 hours ago, Scorpiosunshine said:

This show isn't nearly as train-wrecky as I thought it would be. Though I found myself skipping over it in my playlist last week,  I'm now wanting more and was really into when I watched. Thankfully I have tonight's episode! 

On another note, I also think Ashley had seen that side of BT before. It may not have even been anythjng super big, just as if she had some things nagging in her gut. 

Can't wait to see some Bachelor-style "I don't care what people think" partner -swapping and wave-banging in tonight's episode, lol. 

I wish they would show whatever the other incident of anger was.  I can understand if you see a pattern of escalating anger, and I wouldn't particularly blame him either because he clearly went through something.  He needs to get help if thats the case, but I would certainly see it from both of their POV's if I could have seen whatever happened beforehand.

And yes!  sign me up for wanting to see some drama between the less attractive couples......Lisa....who knew????

[Big Mother]

michelle explains on the afterbuzz podcast why she went on the show. The timing worked out perfectly for her. and she was allowed to Facetime with him.