Death In Paradise - General Discussion

[elle]

3 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

If the series continues on long enough and they have another DI switch, I wish they would bring in a woman as the new Detective Inspector.

Male or female DI, bring in a POC.  Great Britain is a diverse nation, I wish the show would reflect that.

On 7/24/2020 at 12:19 PM, Salzmank said:

I don’t think I really like it. I don’t especially miss Florence, and I’m shocked to say I like Ruby, who I thought would be annoying but who’s added a fun, ‘quirky,’ Dwayne-esque vibe.

While I don’t particularly love Madeleine, the character and actress needed more time to develop. 

 

I don’t think I will either.  I really warmed up to Ruby’s character and I’ve enjoyed J.P. getting a chance to be the senior man.  I was also enjoying seeing stories focus more  on Ruby, J.P., and Uncle Selly.  I agree Madeline wasn’t given the time to develop. 

[Raja]

44 minutes ago, elle said:

Male or female DI, bring in a POC.  Great Britain is a diverse nation, I wish the show would reflect that.

I don’t think I will either.  I really warmed up to Ruby’s character and I’ve enjoyed J.P. getting a chance to be the senior man.  I was also enjoying seeing stories focus more  on Ruby, J.P., and Uncle Selly.  I agree Madeline wasn’t given the time to develop. 

Since someone else hit on my issue. I can't believe American PBS shows this except for Anglophiles on their selection staff.  For a period piece having White officers, South Asian Sergeants and African constables was acceptable. For this show to have the police get darker as you go down the ranks except the political fop seems anachronistic. 

[treeofdreams]

On 8/7/2020 at 7:27 PM, Raja said:

 

Nevermind.

Edited August 9, 2020 by treeofdreams

[Salzmank]

Re: the race angle with this show, I’d be on-board with a non-white (and/or female) DI, but mostly I just want the writers to give the non-white characters something to do.

In the last few seasons, Ruby and J.P. have done some action-y stuff and a tiny bit of detective work, but none of the black characters has ever solved a case, to my recollection. (Even in that hilarious episode with Shirley Henderson, Richard solves it, not Dwayne and Fidel. Talk about a missed opportunity.) Madeleine hasn’t had anything to do except roll her eyes. That’s just weird. 

On both racial-fairness and plotting grounds, why shouldn’t Madeleine (or Florence, now that she’s coming back) get to solve a case that baffles Neville? Why has no black character ever solved the mystery in nine seasons?! I really don’t understand it.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Salzmank

[treeofdreams]

2 hours ago, Salzmank said:

Re: the race angle with this show, I’d be on-board with a non-white (and/or female) DI, but mostly I just want the writers to give the non-white characters something to do.

In the last few seasons, Ruby and J.P. have done some action-y stuff and a tiny bit of detective work, but none of the black characters has ever solved a case, to my recollection. (Even in that hilarious episode with Shirley Henderson, Richard solves it, not Dwayne and Fidel. Talk about a missed opportunity.) Madeleine hasn’t had anything to do except roll her eyes. That’s just weird. 

On both racial-fairness and plotting grounds, why shouldn’t Madeleine (or Florence, now that she’s coming back) get to solve a case that baffles Neville? Why has no black character ever solved the mystery in nine seasons?! I really don’t understand it.

I suppose it is because the show is built around the theme of a genius DI who makes amazing intuitive leaps to put the pieces of the case together and magically knows the answer.  Since the last few episodes have really highlighted  the fact that Neville seems to pull the answer out of thin air I don't see that changing.

[Salzmank]

4 hours ago, treeofdreams said:

I suppose it is because the show is built around the theme of a genius DI who makes amazing intuitive leaps to put the pieces of the case together and magically knows the answer.  Since the last few episodes have really highlighted  the fact that Neville seems to pull the answer out of thin air I don't see that changing.

I agree cluing has suffered a lot lately; “Switcharoo” (the hotel room one with the bathtub suicide) was particularly disappointing in this regard because it was a Thorogood-penned ep with a pretty solid central gimmick—but it had basically no clues.

While “intuitive leaps” are just a part of the genre (logic in detective stories tends to be inductive, not deductive, ironically enough), though, I wouldn’t say magically knowing the answer is a theme of the show. Early episodes were very well-clued, far better than most TV mysteries: “Wicked Wedding Night” and “Predicting a Murder,” in particular, have great clues. Even the pilot has that delightful, maddening clue about the book, which Thorogood handles skillfully.

Nor do I think a genius DI is a necessarily a DiP element. Sure, have the inspector solve most cases, but—hey—Sherlock Holmes had a few failures (“The Yellow Face,” “A Scandal in Bohemia”), and Ellery Queen made some disastrous mistakes (Ten Days’ Wonder). Even Agatha Christie’s Capt. Hastings, the stupidest of all Watsons, pretty much got to figure things out in Curtain. Letting one of the sarges or officers solve the thing just seems like a fun and welcome twist to formula.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Salzmank

[treeofdreams]

Yes, perhaps I overstated my idea, but I was mostly rehashing the last few episodes in my mind, where there weren't many clues but simply a leap to the answer.  Since these are most recent, it seems that this is the direction they are going.  The beginning of the series was much better, which is why I find it a bit disappointing now.

No doubt it is challenging to keep coming up with new plots after having been on for so many seasons.  But they have their formula and are apparently holding faithfully to it.  It has keep them on the air this long.

Edited August 9, 2020 by treeofdreams

[treeofdreams]

On a lighter note, the Commissioner really cracked me up in this episode.

And Yay!! for JP acing his exam.

Edited August 9, 2020 by treeofdreams

[magdalene]

8 hours ago, Salzmank said:

Re: the race angle with this show, I’d be on-board with a non-white (and/or female) DI, but mostly I just want the writers to give the non-white characters something to do.

In the last few seasons, Ruby and J.P. have done some action-y stuff and a tiny bit of detective work, but none of the black characters has ever solved a case, to my recollection. (Even in that hilarious episode with Shirley Henderson, Richard solves it, not Dwayne and Fidel. Talk about a missed opportunity.) Madeleine hasn’t had anything to do except roll her eyes. That’s just weird. 

On both racial-fairness and plotting grounds, why shouldn’t Madeleine (or Florence, now that she’s coming back) get to solve a case that baffles Neville? Why has no black character ever solved the mystery in nine seasons?! I really don’t understand it.

Because it's the gimmick of the show that the eccentric fish out of water character solves the crimes. It's a cozy mystery and that genre is not known for being flexible in the writing.  Have you ever watched Father Brown? Who has ever solved a crime on that show but the good Father himself? And that show really makes the local police look like bumblers.

Here the local police at least get to be competent.

The only time this show has not followed a strict formula is when they killed off their first London detective - and that was a big misstep as far as I am concerned.

[Salzmank]

2 hours ago, magdalene said:

Because it's the gimmick of the show that the eccentric fish out of water character solves the crimes. It's a cozy mystery and that genre is not known for being flexible in the writing.  Have you ever watched Father Brown? Who has ever solved a crime on that show but the good Father himself? And that show really makes the local police look like bumblers.

Here the local police at least get to be competent.

The only time this show has not followed a strict formula is when they killed off their first London detective - and that was a big misstep as far as I am concerned.

Sure, but must that fish out of water solve every crime? Especially when it gets into the touchy race stuff we’ve been going back and forth about? That’s all I’m saying.

As for the coziness… Well, this is a show that revealed the apparent romantic lead and main supporting character as the murderer in the pilot and killed off its main character. To my mind it’s closer to Golden Age mystery novels (or Jonathan Creek) than to Father Brown or Midsomer, let alone stuff like M.C. Beaton.

I have no complaints with formula per se, but I also like stretching that formula as much as possible. That’s given us some of the most interesting television episodes, in my opinion.

[Raja]

32 minutes ago, Salzmank said:

Sure, but must that fish out of water solve every crime? Especially when it gets into the touchy race stuff we’ve been going back and forth about? That’s all I’m saying.

As for the coziness… Well, this is a show that revealed the apparent romantic lead and main supporting character as the murderer in the pilot and killed off its main character. To my mind it’s closer to Golden Age mystery novels (or Jonathan Creek) than to Father Brown or Midsomer, let alone stuff like M.C. Beaton.

I have no complaints with formula per se, but I also like stretching that formula as much as possible. That’s given us some of the most interesting television episodes, in my opinion.

As a British show I give it a bit of a pass because they might have similar issues but it is not the same racial history that America has. So how they see the show in the UK is up to them.  It is American PBS airing the show among the few fictional shows they air that raises my eyebrow while I bet if the DI was a White FBI Agent and a lighter skinned local Sergeant over the dark uniformed constables the show wouldn't be touched with a 10 foot pole..

[catrice2]

Sure, I don't know why the DI could not be a woman but I wo. uld settle for some eye candy.....can they please cast an attractive "fish out of water" man?  you can be eccentric and different and be attractive. 

[Salzmank]

I think I made a Top 10 list for this show a few years ago here, but I’m surprised I haven’t yet done a Top 5 as I did for two other mystery shows I really like, Monk and Columbo. So (no particular order, and keep in mind I prefer the mystery elements to the soap-operatics)…

“Wicked Wedding Night” (S1:E2): The pilot has some great stuff in it, but this is the first episode with the team in place and the first great mystery. If the murderer’s identity isn’t too shocking, the clues (an absence of fingerprints, a room-switch, and—bravura!—the Caribbean sun) are exceptional, and the Christiesque twist is as surprising as it should be. While Poole’s quest for a cup of tea may come off as too silly by half, it builds to a good conclusion, and most of the humor works.

“Predicting Murder” (S1:E3): Shame about the weak title, because this is great. The first killer’s method and motive are clever, if a bit anticlimactic, but the second murder has one of Thorogood’s finest solutions, an ingenious Fremanesque-Sayersian ‘disposal of the body’ trick. More than anything, it’s just a well-written script: everyone get something to do and say throughout the episode, so it’s not just suspect interviews, and Nicholas Dunham (Nicholas Farrell) is a highly effective Moriarty-figure.

“Stab in the Dark” (S3:E1): After a Christiesque episode and a Sayersian episode, here we have a Carrian episode! While the scenario is literally borrowed from the master—an impossible murder at a séance, with all the suspects holding hands except for one outside the room, comes from Carr’s “The Black Minute”—Thorogood here finds a new way to work the locked-room trick, supplies ample clues, and provides a highly effective double-bluff solution. While I don’t like Humphrey Goodman as much as Richard Poole, he’s perfectly likable here, and the entire cast get things to do.

“Missing a Body?” (S1:E4): The first non-Thorogood-penned episode has a really clever take on the hoary vanishing corpse trope. Characterization is good: Poole is at his best here, mooning over the chief suspect and snippily denying that he’s infatuated with her. The solution isn’t some massive SURPRISE, but it’s quietly effective.

“Murder from Above” (S7:E1): Yes, the set-up is similar to “Wicked Wedding Night”’s—but this is one of Thorogood’s finest impossible crime solutions. It’s simple and brilliant.

Honorable mentions: “Arriving in Paradise,” “An Unhelpful Aid,” “A Deadly Curse,” “Death of a Detective,” “Murder on the Honoré Express,” “Murder on the Airwaves.” “The Impossible Murder” and “The Man with the Golden Gun” would make the list if their solutions weren’t so obviously nicked from John Dickson Carr’s He Who Whispers and “The Proverbial Murder,” respectively. “Switcharoo” would make the list if it had any clues.

OK, there’s mine. If anyone’s interested in posting a Top 5 (or 10, or 15, or whatever), you’re more than welcome! 

Edited August 14, 2020 by Salzmank

[auntiemel]

10 hours ago, Salzmank said:

Honorable mentions: “Arriving in Paradise,” “An Unhelpful Aid,” “A Deadly Curse,” “Death of a Detective,” “Murder on the Honoré Express,” “Murder on the Airwaves.” “The Impossible Murder” and “The Man with the Golden Gun” would make the list if their solutions weren’t so obviously nicked from John Dickson Carr’s He Who Whispers and “The Proverbial Murder,” respectively. “Switcharoo” would make the list if it had any clues.

Don't you mean Honoré-ble mentions? 😄

[Salzmank]

29 minutes ago, auntiemel said:

Don't you mean Honoré-ble mentions? 😄

Touché!

[treeofdreams]

A re-run from last season on tonight.  😞

[welnoc]

On 8/11/2020 at 8:53 PM, catrice2 said:

Sure, I don't know why the DI could not be a woman but I wo. uld settle for some eye candy.....can they please cast an attractive "fish out of water" man?  you can be eccentric and different and be attractive. 

All of those men cast in DiP were attractive in their own way. Aren't we supposed to be getting away from a single definition of attractive?

I, for one, am tired of the so-called drop-dead-handsome and ripped style of male "beauty".  It gets boring. 

 

[BlackberryJam]

I'd be fine with some a ripped guy. This show has always leaned into "average looking guy is actually attractive because he's funny and smart." A hot guy would definitely mix it up.

[treeofdreams]

2 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

I'd be fine with some a ripped guy. This show has always leaned into "average looking guy is actually attractive because he's funny and smart." A hot guy would definitely mix it up.

Neville - or rather the actor - is actually very attractive.  Perhaps the character could transform back to his real look

[libgirl2]

I happened to find all of them attractive each in their own way, though I am a sucker for men with a British or Irish or Scottish accent. I also am not a big fan of perfect looking guys. I like a little realism. 

[catrice2]

We in reality there are some very attractive men that have "real" jobs, so I don't see the problem.  But on the other hand the female costars are always insanely pretty and running around in shorts....that is also so realisitc....right

[CarpeFelis]

Happy to hear Florence is returning, though I like Madeline just fine. Ruby has really grown on me so I’m sorry to see her go. Mooney had also grown on me, though Humphrey was my favorite. I’d love to see Dwayne return, even if it’s as a retiree returned home to Ste. Marie who consults with the police because he always seemed to know everyone and everything going on on the island. (That way we could keep JP around rather than replace him.)

When the new DI invevitably leaves at some point, I’d like to see Florence promoted, and have the new UK “fish out of water” be her subordinate for a change.

[magdalene]

I agree that the new actor is actually very attractive. It's the characters various - err "quirks" that have so far negated the attractiveness for me.  Nobody wants to get close to someone who is constantly itching and scratching themselves.  My first instinct would probably be "uh, do they have lice?"

[Prevailing Wind]

Our PBS station has moved DIP - they show Father Brown first, so after Jeopardy! I've got that spare hour - during which I fell asleep. Woke up in time to see tonight's DIP was the blind woman with the husband murdered on the beach and promptly fell asleep again. I WILL be up all night. I wish we'd get new episodes.

[izabella]

Ovation has been re-running the series - so fun to see Camille again!

[catrice2]

On 10/23/2020 at 8:03 PM, izabella said:

Ovation has been re-running the series - so fun to see Camille again!

I changed my plan and did not realize I was losing that channel....right as they started running this and Luther!! Ugh!

[krankydoodle]

On 8/4/2020 at 10:05 AM, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

Also seems curious it was just Poole who was killed off, and no one else (so far).

I always figured they killed Poole off because they had built up the attraction between him and Camille to the point where it would've been difficult to find a compelling reason for him to leave/because they wanted to close off any possibility of a relationship so they could potentially pair her up with someone else.

I like Parker, though that's at least partly because I relate to him as someone with invisible illnesses and random symptoms who can come across as fussy and serious about my routine as a result. He had some really nice moments in the season finale, and it was a fun change for the Commissioner to be so reluctant about a new DI.

Of everyone who's left the show, I'm surprised to find that Ruby might be the one I'll miss the most. She was so sunny and warm, and I loved the big brother-little sister relationship she had with JP. The pep talk she gave him when he felt anxious about becoming a dad was lovely. I also appreciated how she humanized the Commissioner and gave his character more to do. And they haven't done a great job of giving Florence or Madeleine much in the way of personalities, so it was refreshing that Ruby had one in spades even though I agree she was a bit much early on. I wonder what happened behind the scenes.

Potential season 10 spoiler:

Spoiler

According to Wikipedia, Camille will be making an appearance!

 

Edited November 28, 2020 by krankydoodle

[Prevailing Wind]

Call me annoyed.  Even though my PBS station shows reruns, I still want to watch them. I turned on the TV and there's that woman with the good hair but scary teeth (Suze Orman) talking about when to retire and how desperately you need to long-term care insurance. Feh. I wanna see Harry the Lizard.  But it's Beg-a-Thon time, so we have to put up with Ms. Orman.  Sheesh.  I guess, though, if they interrupted DiP or Midsomer just to beg for donations, I'd be even more annoyed.  OK. I'm done over-reacting. 

[Salzmank]

So, Season 10 spoilers, but it was the Death in Paradise production team that did the spoiling, so…

 

Camille and Poole are coming back.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CITqCQMHu5E/?igshid=144wb7s3lrazn

I’m not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, Poole is my favorite DiP lead. As I’ve written above, I think the show kind of lost its way after he left (despite some excellent episodes): it’s supposed to be fish-out-of-water, not guy-who-wants-to-blend-in.

On the other hand, the writers will almost definitely fail to convince us of any way he could have come back. Sherlock couldn’t do that, and that series sleuth we all knew was coming back. However they do it—he faked his death, Camille imagines him there, he’s in a flashback—will come off at best as a disappointment and at worst as laughable.

Also, as someone noted at r/deathinparadise, bringing all these people back makes me feel like the show is ending. I mean, the show’s had a good run, so maybe I should be OK with its ending now, but I really like Ralf Little as Insp. Parker and want him at least to finish out a lengthy run.

Well, we’ll see. Just happy that the show is coming back in spite of corona!

[Door County Cherry]

I'm sure it'll be a cameo/hallucination which will be disappointing.

And I think this is all about the 10th anniversary--not necessarily that the show is ending. 

 

[libgirl2]

On 11/27/2020 at 7:38 PM, Prevailing Wind said:

Call me annoyed.  Even though my PBS station shows reruns, I still want to watch them. I turned on the TV and there's that woman with the good hair but scary teeth (Suze Orman) talking about when to retire and how desperately you need to long-term care insurance. Feh. I wanna see Harry the Lizard.  But it's Beg-a-Thon time, so we have to put up with Ms. Orman.  Sheesh.  I guess, though, if they interrupted DiP or Midsomer just to beg for donations, I'd be even more annoyed.  OK. I'm done over-reacting. 

If not her, its Celtic Thunder! 

[Salzmank]

3 hours ago, Door County Cherry said:

I'm sure it'll be a cameo/hallucination which will be disappointing.

And I think this is all about the 10th anniversary--not necessarily that the show is ending. 

Hadn’t thought of that, but you’re probably right—hope so!

[auntiemel]

To me, that clip clearly looked like Camille's memory.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

So was having a revolving door on the DI & other St Marie police positions always the plan?  Or just adopted & instituted after BM's leaving the series?? 

IE, was the original S1-S3 cast meant to be the only main cast for the full run of the series, or was it built-in from the start that the main cast would be replaced after so long (every 3-4 years, on average)?

[Salzmank]

9 hours ago, auntiemel said:

To me, that clip clearly looked like Camille's memory.

To me too. Or at least some sort of imagination/flashback/dream sequence.

8 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

So was having a revolving door on the DI & other St Marie police positions always the plan?  Or just adopted & instituted after BM's leaving the series?? 

IE, was the original S1-S3 cast meant to be the only main cast for the full run of the series, or was it built-in from the start that the main cast would be replaced after so long (every 3-4 years, on average)?

As far as I know—so take this with a grain of salt—Poole-Camille-Dwayne-Fidel were meant to be the main cast for the full run. Also, creator Robert Thorogood has written a series of books with the team, which seems to suggest those are the people he envisioned for all of these stories.

Edited December 3, 2020 by Salzmank

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

8 hours ago, Salzmank said:

As far as I know—so take this with a grain of salt—Poole-Camille-Dwayne-Fidel were meant to be the main cast for the full run. Also, creator Robert Thorogood has written a series of books with the team, which seems to suggest those are the people he envisioned for all of these stories.

Damn.

Now I can't help but wonder what that would have been like to see happen.  1 and 2 are my fave seasons.

[Door County Cherry]

9 hours ago, Salzmank said:

To me too. Or at least some sort of imagination/flashback/dream sequence.

As far as I know—so take this with a grain of salt—Poole-Camille-Dwayne-Fidel were meant to be the main cast for the full run. Also, creator Robert Thorogood has written a series of books with the team, which seems to suggest those are the people he envisioned for all of these stories.

I think this is absolutely true.  I think they probably knew deep down that they wouldn't be able to keep their whole cast in place forever if the show were to go on as long as it has.  But I think they were upset when Ben Miller opted to leave after only two seasons.  The rumor is that's why they killed his character off.

In the end, I think it worked out for DIP.  Even though the first two seasons are my favorite, Ben leaving showed the producers that the concept of their show was not beholden to certain actor/characters.  

I wish they hadn't killed him, though.  At the very least, I hope his appearance is more than what they showed in the Insta.  (Although maybe that's all there is and they filmed that part in London in front of a green screen.)

[msani19]

Ovation Channel, which I had never heard of before, is showing episodes of Death in Paradise. Stumbled on it the other day, flipping through AT&TV (formerly Direct TV Now).

[Prevailing Wind]

I got an email from Britbox, saying they have ALL the episodes, too.

 

[seacliffsal]

My PBS channel just showed the season 5 premiere. I am so excited as this is the only place I watch this show.  Yes, I have seen seasons 1-4 numerous times, but I enjoy the show and am excited for the new (to my PBS channel) season 5 which I guess is 5 years old.

[catrice2]

On 12/18/2020 at 9:28 PM, Prevailing Wind said:

I got an email from Britbox, saying they have ALL the episodes, too.

 

Will they have the current season? 

On 12/18/2020 at 7:30 PM, msani19 said:

Ovation Channel, which I had never heard of before, is showing episodes of Death in Paradise. Stumbled on it the other day, flipping through AT&TV (formerly Direct TV Now).

Right after I cancelled this channel!!!

[catrice2]

Yeah, they have confirmed this is not the last season. 

[Door County Cherry]

Yep. It has been renewed for two more. 

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/a35142161/death-in-paradise-bbc-confirms-two-series/

And it premiered tonight which means my PBS should have it by summer.  I can't wait. 

[msani19]

Season 10, Episode 1 and 2 are available in full on YouTube. 

The energy of the show remains the same. Florence is back and Ruby is gone. I'm not sure that I like the trade. Ruby grew on me despite making my eyes roll in the beginning. I always found the actress playing Florence extremely stiff.

[Maren]

I'm glad Florence is back, glad that after the second episode it looks like her and Neville are settling in to a camaraderic working relationship. But UGH. New kid. New kid is ALREADY on my nerves. What a punk. I think I could like the young actor, but they made the character just an annoying punk who is already so disrespectful of JP and I do NOT like it.  It was bad enough with Ruby being such an azz to JP and her using her being the niece of the Captain to get away with it. But now they're doing it with this kid too? It's like they are trying to make him a younger version of Duane. And it doesn't work. Duane was older, already long past his juvenile delinquency, and he was the senior officer (and did take his job seriously at least 75% of the time). I already want to smack that kid in his smug face and the preview makes him look even worse. I just don't get why they have the third officer always treating JP like crap. It's just way too annoying. Gonna have to start fast-forwarding and I don't like it.

[libgirl2]

Any one heard anything about when we will be getting this last season in the US? 

[Ms Lark]

Our PBS UK specific channel (WETA-UK) in DC has announced Season 10 will air beginning on Wed. 4/14 at 9pm. Sweet! Hopefully, other PBS channels will be airing it soon, too.

[scorpio1031]

Britbox will start airing Season 10 on April 6th

[msani19]

2 hours ago, scorpio1031 said:

Britbox will start airing Season 10 on April 6th

I can wait a week!

I did watch some episodes on YouTube but it got annoying to try to find full episodes so I decided to wait for BritBox. 

 

(Hi fellow Scorpio! I assume your handle means you're a Scorpio. Hi fellow Scorpio 👋🏽)

[scorpio1031]

1 hour ago, msani19 said:

(Hi fellow Scorpio! I assume your handle means you're a Scorpio. Hi fellow Scorpio 👋🏽)

Hello!!!