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Seasons 4-7: The College Years

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I think you mean Noah? Yeah, him having one facial expression kind of gave it away...

Edited by AndySmith

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51 minutes ago, Uncle JUICE said:

Sorry, once you're past the Claire years and into the"Beverly Blaze" area, I kind of get foggy on the details. That guy in Hawaii, I forget his name, but he only has one facial expression. And one season comes along where the opening credits have Joe E Tata in them, I remember watching that season premiere and thinking "This isn't a good sign."

Ok, gotcha. Yeah, Noah enters the scene in season 8 and stays WAY TOO LONG in my opinion. I forget when Nat first appeared in the credits. They gave him some storylines in season 6 when he reunites with his old girlfriend and they have a baby. But then it seems like he got relegated to the background again. But hey, he fared better than Jim and Cindy!

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I hate the storyline at the end of season 7 when Val sells her half of the club and invests all the money with Kelly's dad's company, but then loses it all because the guy was actually scamming her. So stupid on many levels. They showed her to be a pretty good business woman for the most part up until then, but she's just going to give up the club and put all the money into an investment just to make Kelly mad? Even if the investment had been legitimate, why put ALL her money into it? And what kind of guarantee did she have that she and Kelly's dad would've even interacted that much? So dumb. Sometimes they wrote really well for Val, and other times they were just grasping at straws to keep the feud between her and Kelly going. 

I can tell Jennie was pregnant in these episodes. Lots of big sweaters and holding baskets and bags in front of her. 

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2 hours ago, teapot said:

Agreed.  And the fact that when Prue died she was just "gone" didn't fit w/the story (I know Shannen quit.)

They bring Prue back in the comics but they had to make the story be that she's in someone else's body because they still can't use ShanDo's likeness. I remember back in 2001 thinking that having Prue switch bodies would make a lot more sense considering the show's premise, than their mother having a secret fourth daughter who'd been mysteriously absent until Prue's death.

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On 3/3/2017 at 1:39 PM, desertflower said:

I noticed Pop skipped the Christmas episode where Val and Kelly have to buy presents for each other. Weird. 

That has one of my favorite lines ever, when Val asks Tracey "Can't I just get Kelly some kitty litter, and be done with it?"

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That was Noah in season 8. I remember because the Hawaii photo shoot was supposed to be Donna and David's first real job after college.

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3 hours ago, desertflower said:

I hate the storyline at the end of season 7 when Val sells her half of the club and invests all the money with Kelly's dad's company, but then loses it all because the guy was actually scamming her. So stupid on many levels. They showed her to be a pretty good business woman for the most part up until then, but she's just going to give up the club and put all the money into an investment just to make Kelly mad? Even if the investment had been legitimate, why put ALL her money into it? And what kind of guarantee did she have that she and Kelly's dad would've even interacted that much? So dumb. Sometimes they wrote really well for Val, and other times they were just grasping at straws to keep the feud between her and Kelly going. 

I can tell Jennie was pregnant in these episodes. Lots of big sweaters and holding baskets and bags in front of her. 

This.

What exactly was Val's grand plan? It made very little sense. Seems like they did it just to segue into the Kelly moves in and wants Val to leave story arc. Speaking of, the graduation eps just aired today and that was another shoddily handled Val storyline. So, Val is planning on killing herself...but then everything is okay because Brandon lets her stay at Casa Walsh. Nobody sits down and asks Val if she's okay or thinks about suggesting Val sees a therapist. Fucking hell. She was on the bluffs contemplating suicide. That's not a situation you just shrug off and fix by having the Cardigans play at a party. 

Not sure why I'm surprised though since the previous season had the gang being all "Hey, David, sorry your mom is not doing well, but maybe you can snap out of your funk now?"

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1 hour ago, JaggedLilPill said:

This.

What exactly was Val's grand plan? It made very little sense. Seems like they did it just to segue into the Kelly moves in and wants Val to leave story arc. Speaking of, the graduation eps just aired today and that was another shoddily handled Val storyline. So, Val is planning on killing herself...but then everything is okay because Brandon lets her stay at Casa Walsh. Nobody sits down and asks Val if she's okay or thinks about suggesting Val sees a therapist. Fucking hell. She was on the bluffs contemplating suicide. That's not a situation you just shrug off and fix by having the Cardigans play at a party. 

Not sure why I'm surprised though since the previous season had the gang being all "Hey, David, sorry your mom is not doing well, but maybe you can snap out of your funk now?"

Val's suicide attempt wasn't a big deal because Kelly said she was probably faking for attention. And we all know how everything Kelly says is correct (and how shitty a psych student she is).  Speaking of, when David starts losing his shit, the one person who should have been able to put two and two together, because this is what her degree is in, was just like, "I don't know what's wrong with David....I have a date."

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Yea Claire said David has to snap out of it or davids gonna land in the coo coos next and Kelly was like , " sorry don, but she's right " in her bitchy attitude ... not only are u a freaking psych major but you're David's " sister" and good friend . That's the best you can do ? Yet when Kelly becomes a coke addict BY CHOICE everyone is there for her 

Jennie was pregnant during that time ? From what I see online her first kid was around 2002 

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I just watched the episode when Claire leaves. Is it me or does no one care that she left? She didn't even have a goodbye scene with kelly and donna and she was on the show for 3 years. Even Steve doesn't care and she was barely ever mentioned again after she left.

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I always assumed Val was going to seduce Bill and become Kelly's stepmom, given that we learned of Kelly's secret brunette sister around the same time, and Val's affair with the married Kenny. 

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I always assumed Val was going to seduce Bill and become Kelly's stepmom

That would have been to soapy, even for this show.

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On 3/3/2017 at 1:39 PM, desertflower said:

I think it was his dad's house and he was renting it? But it's still stupid. I know they wanted to write the actor off pretty quickly, and they did a poor job of it! Sudden change of personality, and he moved out of his house yet David is still there, right? Anyway, I remember reading an article that said Jennie didn't like the actor so they wrote him off.

I'm watching on Pop and I'm also in season 7, when Tom Miller arrives. I always thought Tom was hot. I wish when Valerie came back for the series finale he was with her and they were happy. I will just pretend they were!

I noticed Pop skipped the Christmas episode where Val and Kelly have to buy presents for each other. Weird. 

Tom was hot. 

On 3/6/2017 at 8:33 AM, Jaclyn88 said:

What I don't understand is why Brandon couldn't come back for the last episode if he was still producing and involved with the show. He showed up on the video so it made no sense.

After season 7 this show goes very down hill. Noah's character is pretty annoying and gina is unbearable.

I thought Jason Priestly was doing a play at the time and COULDNT make it back due to scheduling. 

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9 hours ago, MCMLXXVII said:

I always assumed Val was going to seduce Bill and become Kelly's stepmom, given that we learned of Kelly's secret brunette sister around the same time, and Val's affair with the married Kenny. 

 

9 hours ago, AndySmith said:

That would have been to soapy, even for this show.

That would have been great....definitely a storyline that would have happened if this show was airing today. 

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On 3/6/2017 at 0:35 AM, CurlyATX said:

Me too!  This is what happens in my world.  And maybe Nana and Brandon finally hook up.

I would prefer David going with Valerie to Buffalo but you're works too. Cause I really don't like David and Donna.

 

Eh.

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On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 10:21 PM, luckyroll3 said:

 

That would have been great....definitely a storyline that would have happened if this show was airing today. 

I think this would be been fantastic! Oh, I can see it now... talk about the ultimate burn to Kelly.  Imagine the cat-butt mouth. 

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Bumping this thread up in case anyone is watching the Pop episodes right now. They are in season 4. Just have to say I think Donna looks super cute in these early college episodes. She looks like a normal college student and her wardrobe is cute without being wacky. Her hair looks good too. Bravo to the wardrobe people, I appreciate their efforts at that particular moment in Donna history. 

Also, although it’s totally unrealistic that Brandon would run into Emily on his first day in San Francisco, I do really like them together in those couple of episodes. 

John Sears is so slimy.

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21 hours ago, desertflower said:

Bumping this thread up in case anyone is watching the Pop episodes right now. They are in season 4. Just have to say I think Donna looks super cute in these early college episodes. She looks like a normal college student and her wardrobe is cute without being wacky. Her hair looks good too. Bravo to the wardrobe people, I appreciate their efforts at that particular moment in Donna history. 

Also, although it’s totally unrealistic that Brandon would run into Emily on his first day in San Francisco, I do really like them together in those couple of episodes. 

John Sears is so slimy.

Yes. Tori started messing with her looks and she went from “normal college girl to worse”. The first nose job was fine, and if she wanted implants a smaller size would’ve been fine but she just kept doing weird things and that awful spray tan! Like ugh. 

She just posted this on her Instagram. At that point she was slim but healthy looking. 

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14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

Yes. Tori started messing with her looks and she went from “normal college girl to worse”. The first nose job was fine, and if she wanted implants a smaller size would’ve been fine but she just kept doing weird things and that awful spray tan! Like ugh. 

She just posted this on her Instagram. At that point she was slim but healthy looking. 

I wonder if Val was invited back . She wasn’t an OG but considering how long the show ran for and how long she was on ( longer than Brenda If I recall ), she should be back . 

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1 hour ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I wonder if Val was invited back . She wasn’t an OG but considering how long the show ran for and how long she was on ( longer than Brenda If I recall ), she should be back . 

Yup Tiffany was on a bit longer than Shannon because she stayed through the first 1/3 of Season 9. Tiffany was a cast member seasons 5- first part of 9, Shannon was 1-4. 

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I would doubt that Tiffani was invited because in the press release from FOX, Jennie and Tori are listed as among those having "conceived" the idea for the show (whereas all the actors are listed as exec. producers), and they don't seem to like Tiffani.

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Shannen’s last year was just painful to watch. First, she looked like she lost 10-20 pounds between the third season and fourth. Brenda was very subdued as a character who up until now had passion.

Kelly just pissed me off with her incessant jealousy over Brenda. Why the show kept her and Dylan pseudo together until the end of the season, I’ll never understand.

Oooohndrea looked like she aged 10 years, and she should have just gone to Yale since her character was just an afterthought and not even involved or part of whatever plots were going on.

Dylan for all his faults, remained Brenda’s one true friend. Donna did except when she waffled and said nothing when Kelly “informed” Brenda of the rumor that she’d slept with Roy to get the part of Maggie. And Brandon was the WORST, for not punching Steve for even saying Brenda would do such a thing and telling Brenda that he didn’t believe her with his silence. What has Brenda EVER done to make him, let alone all her friends, believe she’d do that? Kelly is easy-she’s just an insecure and jealous bint-she knows that she and Dylan got together due to betrayal.

And again, Dylan was there for Brenda during the destruction of the research lab. And Jesse can just STFU. As far as EVERYONE except for Dylan was concerned, Brenda was guilty, and that according to Kelly, friendship isn’t unconditional.

And now it’s off my dvr because I’m not interested in the show without Shannen.

Season Five introduces the RAMPED UP ASSHOLE Brandon. Telling Dylan to “get over it” regarding him and Kelly being together. I’m not concerned with the relationship, because Dylan and that bint were broken up, but that Dylan was in a bad place. Partly his fault for believing the scam, but he needed support and, well, everyone being all judgy, just UGH.

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On 5/5/2019 at 3:49 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

Telling Dylan to “get over it” regarding him and Kelly being together. I’m not concerned with the relationship, because Dylan and that bint were broken up, but that Dylan was in a bad place. Partly his fault for believing the scam, but he needed support and, well, everyone being all judgy, just UGH.

I hate to defend Brandon, but at this point no one KNEW about the scam. They just thought Dylan ran off all summer and was being an ass to everyone. Had they known he has been scammed and betrayed I even think Brandon would’ve been nice. 

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11 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

I hate to defend Brandon, but at this point no one KNEW about the scam. They just thought Dylan ran off all summer and was being an ass to everyone. Had they known he has been scammed and betrayed I even think Brandon would’ve been nice. 

Nope. I’m not giving him any slack. He’s on my shit list since end of season four.

But that’s just me.

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Season 4 is generally a bummer for Brenda; she seems so subdued and Shannen’s voice even sounded a little different too. But there is a scene I love...Dylan is at the Walsh house to talk to Jim and then he sees Brenda in the kitchen and they start talking about her play. She thanks him for the necklace he gave her on opening night and for standing by her through everything. The scene is shot beautifully, with them leaning in closely to each other, and they both look dreamy and amazing. So much yummy chemistry just lingering there between them. Sigh. 

So, I realize Dylan was drunk but him confronting Brandon and Kelly at the fundraiser (“My best friend and my best girl”) was just a little weird because at the end of season 4 he and Kelly had broken up and he didn’t really seem too upset about it. Plus he had (presumably) slept with Brenda before she left. Factor in the history of him getting together with Kelly while he and Brenda were still together, and I really don’t think he has the right to take a moral high ground about Kelly and Brandon getting together. However I did miss season 5 episode 1 this time around; so I realize I may have missed something. But I’m pretty sure he and Kelly had been broken up all summer, right?

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4 hours ago, desertflower said:

Season 4 is generally a bummer for Brenda; she seems so subdued and Shannen’s voice even sounded a little different too. But there is a scene I love...Dylan is at the Walsh house to talk to Jim and then he sees Brenda in the kitchen and they start talking about her play. She thanks him for the necklace he gave her on opening night and for standing by her through everything. The scene is shot beautifully, with them leaning in closely to each other, and they both look dreamy and amazing. So much yummy chemistry just lingering there between them. Sigh. 

So, I realize Dylan was drunk but him confronting Brandon and Kelly at the fundraiser (“My best friend and my best girl”) was just a little weird because at the end of season 4 he and Kelly had broken up and he didn’t really seem too upset about it. Plus he had (presumably) slept with Brenda before she left. Factor in the history of him getting together with Kelly while he and Brenda were still together, and I really don’t think he has the right to take a moral high ground about Kelly and Brandon getting together. However I did miss season 5 episode 1 this time around; so I realize I may have missed something. But I’m pretty sure he and Kelly had been broken up all summer, right?

Yes to everything in the first paragraph. And not only in that scene. But even at the end of season 3 when Brenda came to visit Dylan about...thinking about going to college in Minneapolis. If Iris hadn't shown up, they would definitely have kissed. I don't know if it was Shannen and Luke just knowing their characters so well, and that despite Dylan's cheating, Kelly was just sloppy seconds. I'll never understand the reasons for that decision since the previous episodes had Brenda and Dylan so close; this was before the Baja fiasco.

And then in Season four, when they went fishing. That look; before Brenda said no, they were finally in a good place, so let's just stay friends. 

How many times did Dylan and Kelly break up? Everything was about HER. She wanted to see other people and ended dating that slime, John Sears. Then they got back together, but all scenes of them were just them making out or having had sex. Sure, he and Brenda did too, but they also did other things together. Kelly and Dylan didn't. She was also all jealous and made a scene when it turned out Dylan decided to go to Brenda's for Thanksgiving Day.

But yes, as to your question, they did break up for realzies, after Kelly told him (even if she and Jim turned out to be right) that he needed to be careful about his money and giving it to those scammers.

And Brenda and Dylan TOTALLY made love in that last scene. I'm grateful that with all the shit that went down, that at least Shannen/Brenda left happy.

And yes, Dylan was drunk in the season five opener--he was in Mexico. We learned he lost all his money. Like, Jim wasn't able to find mug shots of them when he ran them? But the cops were able to show Dylan those after he reported them to the cops? Whatever.  Anyway, he gets home and there's a message from a French operator about a collect call from Brenda; then an Aug. 5th call/message from Brandon, telling Dylan that Brenda was so good, the Academy offered her a scholarship or whatever for the whole term. And Dylan's all like so much for "I won't be in London forever"

So yeah, even drunk, he had no right to say "his best girl" because, no. BRENDA was his best girl. He ended up living with her after he left when his wife was murdered. I still roll my eyes when I think of how Donna hid and told everyone not to tell Kelly that Dylan and Brenda were living together.

I think it's the lack of empathy from Brandon, seeing Dylan all drunk and messed up. As if Dylan is, and has been this albatross around that asshole's neck.

And of course, at the end of this season, we get the "I choose me, but not really because I gets me a new boyfriend when I come back next year."

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Thanks for recap of the season 5 opener; I remember most of that now that you describe it. There seemed to be a lack of empathy from the whole Walsh family about Dylan falling off the wagon. I get that he and Jim had a falling out about investing with Kevin, but it’s weird that nobody put two and two together about him getting scammed. Wouldn’t Brandon have noticed that Suzanne suddenly stopped working at the Peach Pit? There’s a quick scene at the end of season 4 where Dylan is talking to Nat on the phone about how Suzanne didn’t show up for work, so it doesn’t sound like she even tried to give Nat a cover story, she just took off. So she and Kevin and Erica disappear, Dylan disappears for the summer, and when he comes back he’s a raging drunk again and nobody thinks something is up? Then in a scene where Val is asking Jim about Dylan all he can say is stay away from him because he’s brought our family a lifetime of trouble? Dude, maybe you could recognize that he was doing really well for awhile and wonder what has happened that he is now off the rails again. 

Now, I realize they eventually do the intervention and try to help him, but it’s just odd that it never occurred to them earlier that there was a reason he started drinking again, and that gee, maybe it could be related to the sudden disappearance of the guy to whom he gave access to his bank account?  

I give way too much thought to this, I know. Lol. 

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2 hours ago, desertflower said:

Thanks for recap of the season 5 opener; I remember most of that now that you describe it. There seemed to be a lack of empathy from the whole Walsh family about Dylan falling off the wagon. I get that he and Jim had a falling out about investing with Kevin, but it’s weird that nobody put two and two together about him getting scammed. Wouldn’t Brandon have noticed that Suzanne suddenly stopped working at the Peach Pit? There’s a quick scene at the end of season 4 where Dylan is talking to Nat on the phone about how Suzanne didn’t show up for work, so it doesn’t sound like she even tried to give Nat a cover story, she just took off. So she and Kevin and Erica disappear, Dylan disappears for the summer, and when he comes back he’s a raging drunk again and nobody thinks something is up? Then in a scene where Val is asking Jim about Dylan all he can say is stay away from him because he’s brought our family a lifetime of trouble? Dude, maybe you could recognize that he was doing really well for awhile and wonder what has happened that he is now off the rails again. 

Now, I realize they eventually do the intervention and try to help him, but it’s just odd that it never occurred to them earlier that there was a reason he started drinking again, and that gee, maybe it could be related to the sudden disappearance of the guy to whom he gave access to his bank account?  

I give way too much thought to this, I know. Lol. 

I thought about all of that too so you’re not alone lol . How does not one of them put 2 and 2 together that Dylan’s miserable for a reason , Suzanne has not shown up for work and the whole family has disappeared . I get that Dylan has had a drinking problem in the past , but this was not a happy drunk type of situation . He was clearly miserable and no one ever asked why . 

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2 hours ago, desertflower said:

Thanks for recap of the season 5 opener; I remember most of that now that you describe it. There seemed to be a lack of empathy from the whole Walsh family about Dylan falling off the wagon. I get that he and Jim had a falling out about investing with Kevin, but it’s weird that nobody put two and two together about him getting scammed. Wouldn’t Brandon have noticed that Suzanne suddenly stopped working at the Peach Pit? There’s a quick scene at the end of season 4 where Dylan is talking to Nat on the phone about how Suzanne didn’t show up for work, so it doesn’t sound like she even tried to give Nat a cover story, she just took off. So she and Kevin and Erica disappear, Dylan disappears for the summer, and when he comes back he’s a raging drunk again and nobody thinks something is up? Then in a scene where Val is asking Jim about Dylan all he can say is stay away from him because he’s brought our family a lifetime of trouble? Dude, maybe you could recognize that he was doing really well for awhile and wonder what has happened that he is now off the rails again. 

Now, I realize they eventually do the intervention and try to help him, but it’s just odd that it never occurred to them earlier that there was a reason he started drinking again, and that gee, maybe it could be related to the sudden disappearance of the guy to whom he gave access to his bank account?  

I give way too much thought to this, I know. Lol. 

You're very welcome! I only knew all of that because I just watched it two or three days ago! I had over 60 episodes and burned through the last of season three and four!

To be honest, I hated everybody except for Carol, Brenda, Donna, and Dylan by the end of season four.  Even in the "flashback" in season five premiere, where Kelly is defending David's cheating--that it was "thrown in his face" so what choice did he have? And I'm yelling, how about sucking it up and saying no? Or just use your hand if you feel like you're going to "explode."

I also think too much about this stuff.

28 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I thought about all of that too so you’re not alone lol . How does not one of them put 2 and 2 together that Dylan’s miserable for a reason , Suzanne has not shown up for work and the whole family has disappeared . I get that Dylan has had a drinking problem in the past , but this was not a happy drunk type of situation . He was clearly miserable and no one ever asked why . 

It makes no sense. Dylan has only ever fallen off the bandwagon twice between seasons 1-4: When Brenda first broke up with him, and when Iris first showed up; when they all went to that cabin; and when his father died. It's not as if he were constantly and repeatedly falling off the wagon. 

All I got from the way his "friends" treated him, was that none of them know the meaning of the word. How many fucking times did Brandon bail his PAL Steve? Time and time again, screw up after screw up after screw up. But Dylan? He's clearly messed up. Something must have happened. But do any of them think to find out? Dylan saved David's assholey ASS from the cops and Feds. He's been there for Brandon and Steve. But not a single one was there for him.

And Jim can just STFU. Dylan was the Devil Incarnate when he was dating Brenda. Then he became like a son. Then he was the evuhl dirtbag who was making Brenda lie to them (Baja Fiasco); then he was like a son, and now he trash talks Dylan to Valerie? What the Fuck Ever.

And I just rolled my eyes at how Show tried to be clever, trying to maintain the mystery of who the Walsh family were meeting at the airport, never showing Valerie (unless POP cut that out), when we saw Tiffani in the opening credits. I could have sworn in the original airing, she called Jim and Carol "Avocado heads" in the premiere, while lighting up? Or was that in the second one, and where Brandon told her to not toke up in the house?

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Regarding the Scamily skipping town and no one noticing...in an episode I watched today (where they are planning the first rave at the peach pit) Kelly runs into Dylan and says she bought something for Erika and then asked how they are all doing in Arizona. So apparently they said they were moving there, or at least that’s what Dylan told them. But they never really showed any of that, hence my confusion about why no one was wondering where they were. 

The scene of the party goers lined up to get into the peach pit is HILARIOUS. There are people waving flyers frantically, and one dude is actually waving his cash around, as if to say “Take my money, please! I’ll pay anything to party at a diner after hours!” Hee hee....

 

On 5/8/2019 at 6:01 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

. I could have sworn in the original airing, she called Jim and Carol "Avocado heads" in the premiere, while lighting up? Or was that in the second one, and where Brandon told her to not toke up in the house?

Yeah, that’s the big reveal at the end of the premiere, that she is a bad girl! Did they actually cut that out?  The pop reruns are definitely chopped up and the music is ridiculous. A few years ago it seemed like some of the music was still original but now they just cut everything. Even David and Donna playing piano in one ep...You can tell it’s supposed to be Heart and Soul but instead it’s just a slightly similar sounding song. And they couldn’t even use most of Ray’s stuff. Weird. 

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Okay. So I decided to test myself to see if I was mature strong enough to watch season five. GOD. I HATE Valerie. And that Carol, Jim. AND Brandon are stupid to fall for her lies. ‘Ohhh! Dylan was soooo wasted and drunk he forced me to kiss him!!!’ Good Grief.😒😒😒🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

And again with Brandon telling Dylan to get over being scammed and losing all his money. I ❤️❤️❤️ Dylan throwing in his face how he was the most coddled person her knew-living at home, sitting on his high horse. I’m frankly shocked that they let Luke praise Brenda having the guts to stand up to Jim and leaving.

And the utter retconning and trying to erase Brenda and how Dylan never loved her when he was talking to Kelly at the rehab. About how he would have “fallen in love with her either way” BULLSHIT!!! No. Had  BRENDA SHOWED UP, Dylan would have chosen her! And breaking up with that bint did NOT SET HIM DOWN SPIRALING!!!🤬🤬🤬🤬🤬 

More later...

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On 5/9/2019 at 11:57 AM, desertflower said:

Regarding the Scamily skipping town and no one noticing...in an episode I watched today (where they are planning the first rave at the peach pit) Kelly runs into Dylan and says she bought something for Erika and then asked how they are all doing in Arizona. So apparently they said they were moving there, or at least that’s what Dylan told them. But they never really showed any of that, hence my confusion about why no one was wondering where they were. 

I just watched these episodes. I think Kelly got the idea that Scamming Suzanne & group were going to AZ from the episode where Kelly & Dylan were woken up by Erica one morning.  They let themselves into Dylan's house & Erica told them that they were moving to South America.  Suzanne said she had misunderstood,  they said the  Southwest.   Kevin said he could set up a lab cheaper in Arizona. 

Now.... my "On-dree-Ahh" rant

I could not stand her!  Early episode where she was moving into Grandma Rose's apartment.  It was brought up then Grandma never liked her mother because she was not Jewish.  She said another early episode that because of the different religions,  they never celebrated any holidays. 

FF to college... there was the relationship with Dan Rubin, who she has very sexual relationship with.   While still seeing him,  she hooks up with Jessie.  Next thing,  she's pregnant.   How is she sure the baby is Jessie's & not Dan's. 

She then acts as if she knows nothing about any religion but Judaism.   When the anti-Semitic speaker was coming to campus,  she gets pissed at Brandon then goes to pour some heavy guilt on David.  I've never even seen her and David talk before but she feels she has the right to do this.  She is then offended one of Jessie's uncles gave Hannah a cross.   "She's Jewish,  Jessie".  Jessie tells her Hannah is Jewish & Christian. "On-Dree-Ahh's' response is "what does that even mean"?  Excuse me,  that's what you are! 

Christmas time,  they take Hannah to see Santa,  she acts like she's never seen a Santa before. How many Christmases did she spend at the Walsh house,  one time there was even a Santa! 

I loved it when Jessie told her she was not tolerant of others.  

I really disliked that character. 

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She then acts as if she knows nothing about any religion but Judaism.   When the anti-Semitic speaker was coming to campus,  she gets pissed at Brandon then goes to pour some heavy guilt on David.  I've never even seen her and David talk before but she feels she has the right to do this.  She is then offended one of Jessie's uncles gave Hannah a cross.   "She's Jewish,  Jessie".  Jessie tellsher Hannah is Jewish & Christian. "On-Dree-Ahh's' response is "what does that even mean"?  Excuse me,  that's what you are! 

Christmas time,  they take Hannah to see Santa,  she acts like she's never seen a Santa before. How many Christmases did she spend at the Walsh house,  one time there was even a Santa! 

I loved it when Jessie told her she was not tolerant of others.  

I really disliked that character. 

Was Andrea half Jewish/ Half Christian? I thought she was Jewish.  

One of my friends went through something very similar when it came to her own children.  She is Jewish, but from a "practicing" standpoint, on the more casual side.  She celebrated the holidays with her family, but never went to temple, didn't have a bat mitzvah, etc.  Same idea as Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter, but skip the rest of the formalities.  

However, when it came to her children, her attitude towards religion suddenly took a turn.  In her eyes, any child she and her husband had, would be Jewish because that is the jewish law.  A child is the religion of the mother.  Even if she married a christian, she would not want Christianity in her home, she didn't want to confuse them (they could celebrate easter with an egg hunt at her inlaws, no church), and her views towards Christianity really went from "spending christmas with friends or her boyfriend at the time and having no problem with it" to really feeling like Christianity was a threat to her religion, and a personal affront to her,  In other, words, she became Andrea.

Then she married her husband, a practicing Catholic.  Her initial approach was what I outlined above.  But once the kids came along, she was forced to ease up on her attitudes and opinions on the matter.  To her, her children are Jewish.  That's the law.  But it suddenly wasn't just about her.  To her husband, no such law exists, and religion becomes a choice that parents guide you through, to the confirmation process.  So now, they are kind of making it up as they go along.  They celebrate all major holidays.  And as for religious education, they are religious light - no sunday school or hebrew school or CCD.  The kids will learn about both until they can decide which they want to practice, themselves.  Which is what I think Jesse was getting at with "She's both."  But to Andrea, there was no such thing because being Both, I don't think is an option, because the Jewish law is clear.  

To quote my parents, everything is wide open, until the baby comes along.  

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Except that Aahhhhhhndrea got knocked up BEFORE they got married. Her mother was Christian. And as @alegtostandon stated, she’d been to the Walshes for Thanksgiving AND Christmas.

It was just to manufacture conflict because she wasn’t involved in any of the plots with the other cast members post high school.

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Going back to season five...and my Valerie hate among other stuff.

I remember, during the original airing, how I loathed her, wanting Dylan, going after Dylan because he was Brenda's boyfriend. She wanted what Brenda had. Dylan, in his drunk/drugged state, was SO AWESOME when he called her on that shit. And for someone who "claimed" to not want strings, she decided that Dylan was hers and that they had some kind of commitment or whatever. Yet ended up being a needy, jealous, whiny bint. 

But then Dylan saw those crocodile tears and apologized. DAMMIT. And in a fit of pique, she spilled the beans about Dylan being broke, and acting as if he had no one else to blame but himself, when just right before she saw him with another woman, she was begging and trying to shame Brandon for being a bad friend, and how Dylan didn't have anyone.

Same with Ray. She decided she wanted him, and then tried to blackmail him into continue to sleep with her.

I call out men who act this way and pull this kind of shit, and I'm calling her out for it. And yeah, she's a slut. And a blackmailer. I LAUGHED my ass off when Dylan gave her $10K instead of half of his wealth for her helping him out in Mexico. She was always just swanning into his house as if it was HER house, and it wasn't. I fast forwarded most of her scenes so I don't know if she slept with Jonesy to get more money or not.

And don't get me started how this barely out of her teens kid was able to run a club, walk around as if she were 10 years older than she was supposed to be, and be able to negotiate business deals. And then the money ran out and she came running back "home."

It's disgusting how the show kept trying to convince me that Kelly was THE ONE for Dylan. BARF.

It's so strange, but it's like all the characters looked like they were five years older than they were supposed to be. They no longer looked, nor acted like college kids. Was it the heavy make-up? The dialogue?  At least in previous seasons, they looked and acted like teenagers in high school and first year college students in season 4.

And that's right, Jessie! Dylan is Aaahhhhhndrea's friend, not yours! The way he came to Dylan, all dog in the manger, and suckered Dylan into letting him stay at his place, and then made all kinds of noise, poking into Dylan's business, and then trying to get the dirt on her affair with Peter. UGH.

But the make-up is really bad. I can see how much "white" powder they put on Jennie, because her neck is a few shades darker than her face. Same with Tori. And boy, isn't this around the time Tori messed with her face?

Oh great, here we go with Ray as the abusive boyfriend because he's the one who cheated and boinked Valerie, because Donna wouldn't put out. So of course it's Donna's fault.

It's too bad that Shannen couldn't have come back for a visit. I would really have loved to see a scene between Brenda and Valerie. Because you know, they retconned that relationship as well. Started out how much good childhood friends Brenda/Brandon and Val were, to oh, it was just Brandon and Valerie who were buds. PUHLEAZE.

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11 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Going back to season five...and my Valerie hate among other stuff.

I remember, during the original airing, how I loathed her, wanting Dylan, going after Dylan because he was Brenda's boyfriend. She wanted what Brenda had. Dylan, in his drunk/drugged state, was SO AWESOME when he called her on that shit. And for someone who "claimed" to not want strings, she decided that Dylan was hers and that they had some kind of commitment or whatever. Yet ended up being a needy, jealous, whiny bint. 

But then Dylan saw those crocodile tears and apologized. DAMMIT. And in a fit of pique, she spilled the beans about Dylan being broke, and acting as if he had no one else to blame but himself, when just right before she saw him with another woman, she was begging and trying to shame Brandon for being a bad friend, and how Dylan didn't have anyone.

Same with Ray. She decided she wanted him, and then tried to blackmail him into continue to sleep with her.

I call out men who act this way and pull this kind of shit, and I'm calling her out for it. And yeah, she's a slut. And a blackmailer. I LAUGHED my ass off when Dylan gave her $10K instead of half of his wealth for her helping him out in Mexico. She was always just swanning into his house as if it was HER house, and it wasn't. I fast forwarded most of her scenes so I don't know if she slept with Jonesy to get more money or not.

And don't get me started how this barely out of her teens kid was able to run a club, walk around as if she were 10 years older than she was supposed to be, and be able to negotiate business deals. And then the money ran out and she came running back "home."

It's disgusting how the show kept trying to convince me that Kelly was THE ONE for Dylan. BARF.

It's so strange, but it's like all the characters looked like they were five years older than they were supposed to be. They no longer looked, nor acted like college kids. Was it the heavy make-up? The dialogue?  At least in previous seasons, they looked and acted like teenagers in high school and first year college students in season 4.

And that's right, Jessie! Dylan is Aaahhhhhndrea's friend, not yours! The way he came to Dylan, all dog in the manger, and suckered Dylan into letting him stay at his place, and then made all kinds of noise, poking into Dylan's business, and then trying to get the dirt on her affair with Peter. UGH.

But the make-up is really bad. I can see how much "white" powder they put on Jennie, because her neck is a few shades darker than her face. Same with Tori. And boy, isn't this around the time Tori messed with her face?

Oh great, here we go with Ray as the abusive boyfriend because he's the one who cheated and boinked Valerie, because Donna wouldn't put out. So of course it's Donna's fault.

It's too bad that Shannen couldn't have come back for a visit. I would really have loved to see a scene between Brenda and Valerie. Because you know, they retconned that relationship as well. Started out how much good childhood friends Brenda/Brandon and Val were, to oh, it was just Brandon and Valerie who were buds. PUHLEAZE.

I think the writers wrote Valerie as trying to give her layers and I for the most part enjoyed her character... but sometimes her character made no sense. Sometimes she was evil, sometimes very good hearted.. sometimes she was a " no strings person", other times she blackmailed people to be in a relationship with her. Sometimes she hated the crew and couldn't figure out why anyone would like the "avocado heads" , other times she would do anything to be apart of their crew (example- paying Ginger a shitload of money so the gang will like her). I don't know, Val kinda made your head spin. But her character was pretty awesome at times. She stayed consistently crazy throughout her run.

 

On 5/15/2019 at 1:13 PM, BrindaWalsh said:

Was Andrea half Jewish/ Half Christian? I thought she was Jewish.  

One of my friends went through something very similar when it came to her own children.  She is Jewish, but from a "practicing" standpoint, on the more casual side.  She celebrated the holidays with her family, but never went to temple, didn't have a bat mitzvah, etc.  Same idea as Christians who celebrate Christmas and Easter, but skip the rest of the formalities.  

However, when it came to her children, her attitude towards religion suddenly took a turn.  In her eyes, any child she and her husband had, would be Jewish because that is the jewish law.  A child is the religion of the mother.  Even if she married a christian, she would not want Christianity in her home, she didn't want to confuse them (they could celebrate easter with an egg hunt at her inlaws, no church), and her views towards Christianity really went from "spending christmas with friends or her boyfriend at the time and having no problem with it" to really feeling like Christianity was a threat to her religion, and a personal affront to her,  In other, words, she became Andrea.

Then she married her husband, a practicing Catholic.  Her initial approach was what I outlined above.  But once the kids came along, she was forced to ease up on her attitudes and opinions on the matter.  To her, her children are Jewish.  That's the law.  But it suddenly wasn't just about her.  To her husband, no such law exists, and religion becomes a choice that parents guide you through, to the confirmation process.  So now, they are kind of making it up as they go along.  They celebrate all major holidays.  And as for religious education, they are religious light - no sunday school or hebrew school or CCD.  The kids will learn about both until they can decide which they want to practice, themselves.  Which is what I think Jesse was getting at with "She's both."  But to Andrea, there was no such thing because being Both, I don't think is an option, because the Jewish law is clear.  

To quote my parents, everything is wide open, until the baby comes along.  

Yes, the Andrea situation and your friends situation make sense to me, because I'm Jewish myself. A lot of people are casual about being Jewish until they have kids, especially if they marry a non-Jew. My sister married someone who was Catholic and she is much more strict with things now that she has kids.( He ended up converting to Judaism, but they still celebrate holidays with his family.) She wants to make sure her religion isn't forgotten about, because let's face the facts. Catholicism and Christianity have more "fun" holidays than Judaism. Everyone wants to celebrate Christmas, Easter, etc and all of the holidays are so commercialized... but no one wants to fast for Yom Kippur lol. And Because of the Holocaust, soooo many Jews have died and there's not many of us left that it's up to us to keep it alive. And when people have mixed faiths, a lot of the time people do not lean toward the Jewish side. (I'm not trying to give a religious lesson, just agreeing that when people have kids, religion becomes more important to a lot of people.)

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20 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Except that Aahhhhhhndrea got knocked up BEFORE they got married. Her mother was Christian. And as @alegtostandon stated, she’d been to the Walshes for Thanksgiving AND Christmas.

It was just to manufacture conflict because she wasn’t involved in any of the plots with the other cast members post high school.

I completely agree with you.  If you go by Jewish Law,  Onn-dre-Ahh  would not be Jewish since her mother was not,  therefore,  her baby would not be Jewish.  Some of the more conservative branches of Judaism have begun to recognized children of non Jewish moms as  being "Jewish" if they were active in the temple, which we never saw her doing. 

I, too,  am a  product of a mixed marriage... mom Christian,  Dad Jewish.   We were raised with Christian beliefs but my dad remarried an Orthodox woman when I was 13.  Both religions became a very big part of our lives. 

For Onn-Dre-Ahh to do Friday night Shabbat that one episode shocked me... perfect Hebrew memorized!  Never heard of her going to  Hebrew school.   

This whole storyline was conceived to keep her character relevant.    IMO, this is something she & Jessie should have discussed before the baby was born. 

And as someone above said,  Jessie running to Dylan for a place to stay, doesn't anyone who becomes involved in "the gang's lives" have any friends of their own? 

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21 minutes ago, alegtostandon said:

And as someone above said,  Jessie running to Dylan for a place to stay, doesn't anyone who becomes involved in "the gang's lives" have any friends of their own? 

That too, was me! Not only friends of his own, but was he so poor that he couldn't rent a reasonable motel/hotel room? Or was it just to get dirt on his wife?

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4 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

That too, was me! Not only friends of his own, but was he so poor that he couldn't rent a reasonable motel/hotel room? Or was it just to get dirt on his wife?

If nothing else, we were repeatedly told he had a huge Latino family.  There wasn't a single cousin with a couch where he could crash?

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3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

If nothing else, we were repeatedly told he had a huge Latino family.  There wasn't a single cousin with a couch where he could crash?

I liked Jesse originally. I hated that plot. It was just bad writing for him. He was fine when we met him, he played softball and had buddies, plus his big family as mentioned above. He was smart and independent.  Staying with Dylan made no sense. As they used to say on Mystery Science Theater, “Welcome to another edition of Plot Convenience Playhouse.”

Val’s character was all over the map. It was infuriating at times but she could be entertaining and Tiffani did a good job with the craziness she was given. 

I watched the house party fire episode today and one detail I had forgotten about was that Ray totally saves Steve, Val, Allison’s girlfriend, and others from the fire and is willing to go back in for Kelly until Steve stops him, and I don’t think it’s even mentioned again later. I’m sure the dude had inhaled a bunch of smoke to help save the avocado heads, and no one thanks him because they are too worried about Kelly’s neck burns and that she might not model anymore. 

On a positive note, Andrea looked really pretty in those string of episodes. I’m glad they rectified her terrible freshman year hair.  

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I read somewhere that the producers / show runners regretted casting The actor who played Jesse . They said he didn’t fit the character and his look was too old . Something about him balding and being bland . I don’t remember where I read it , but I did in some interview . 

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There was some huge interview with the writers or producers who handled the early seasons.  And they were the ones who said that the casting of Jesse was a major mistake.

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1 hour ago, BrindaWalsh said:

There was some huge interview with the writers or producers who handled the early seasons.  And they were the ones who said that the casting of Jesse was a major mistake.

I mean Jesse was pretty blah , but I’d sAy the casting of AaAndrea was the mistake . I know a lot of people liked her , but I think she was way too old looking to play a high school student and it took me out of her scenes half the time . If she were playing a 45 year old , I’d believe that more . She also just didn’t seem to mesh with the vibe of the rest of the cast . She was kinda like the phoebe of friends . 

I just re-read the Jesse article and the producer was brutal . He said the casting choice was terrible and Jesse had huge ears and a receding hairline and it was never going to work . He said Aaron spelling was always off with minority casting . He said that they should have casted a really sexy guy . Can’t imagine being the actor and reading that . Not to mention Andrea wasn’t exactly a ball of sexy herself lol . 

Edited by Jaclyn88
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44 minutes ago, Jaclyn88 said:

I mean Jesse was pretty blah , but I’d sAy the casting of AaAndrea was the mistake . I know a lot of people liked her , but I think she was way too old looking to play a high school student and it took me out of her scenes half the time .

Agree. And it became more obvious when they were in college. I've stated up thread, that Gabrielle looked like she aged 10 years. She doesn't even look like a high school student who's just starting college. Being pregnant probably didn't help, but it's like the show just dressed her and did her make-up more age appropriate to her actual age. 
 

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2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Agree. And it became more obvious when they were in college. I've stated up thread, that Gabrielle looked like she aged 10 years. She doesn't even look like a high school student who's just starting college. Being pregnant probably didn't help, but it's like the show just dressed her and did her make-up more age appropriate to her actual age. 
 

Speaking of dressing frumpy... Just watched Kelly's Seventeen cover episode.   She dresses like a frumpy bag lady.   Her dresses are long and shapeless.   At first I thought maybe she was pregnant in real life but one scene has her playing pool with  Brandon and  Steve & she's wearing old lady high waist baggy jeans. Val,  Donna and  Claire all dressed in cute,  age appropriate outfits.  

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6 hours ago, alegtostandon said:

Speaking of dressing frumpy... Just watched Kelly's Seventeen cover episode.   She dresses like a frumpy bag lady.   Her dresses are long and shapeless.   At first I thought maybe she was pregnant in real life but one scene has her playing pool with  Brandon and  Steve & she's wearing old lady high waist baggy jeans. Val,  Donna and  Claire all dressed in cute,  age appropriate outfits.  

College Kelly is just atrocious.  She is beige, bitchy, self-righteous, and the short hair really ages her.  At least in the final seasons she looks a bit better, but her college look was terrible. I liked her in the beginning of season 4, as the excited sorority girl who lives at the beach, but it was like when cut her hair, they also cut off any likeable personality.  

I've never understood why TV can't do college.  Is it because they use up typical potential storylines in high school? 

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