S04.E08: The Redesign of Natural Objects

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

[Cranberry]

Canadian promo:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Nooooo, leave Hellwizard alone, Duko!

[ottoDbusdriver]

Hey, it's the actor that played Zachary Caine from 'Bitten' -- threatening Donnie with a knife.  Is he giving Donnie a teardrop tattoo ?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Clip:

[Valny]

 I had to dig a little for the episode description this week. Even my go to site, TVGuide.com  didn’t have it. What’s up with that?   

 

From  Comicbookmovie.com

 

As Alison is terrified by Neolution threats made against Donnie, Sarah and Mrs. S question her loyalty to her sestras. While Sarah is distracted, Siobhan sneaks out to seek vengeance. Meanwhile, Cosima and Susan Duncan work together in a final attempt to discover a cure.

[Primetimer]

There were never such devoted sestras.

View the full article

[holly4755]

why why did this show have me break out into a version of "sisters" from White Christmas.

Quote

Many men have tried to split us up but no one can

Lord help the mister

Who comes between me and my sister

And lord help the sister

who comes between me and my man

what are the bots for, arrgh.

[slf]

Allison, my poor girl. Either sell out her sisters and save her husband from being beaten and killed, or save her sisters and doom her husband. Thankfully she went for the third option: set the asshole up and let Siobhan handle the rest. All while working in a few musical numbers.

(I love her purple eyeliner!)

[Valny]

1 hour ago, slf said:

Allison, my poor girl. Either sell out her sisters and save her husband from being beaten and killed, or save her sisters and doom her husband. Thankfully she went for the third option: set the asshole up and let Siobhan handle the rest. All while working in a few musical numbers.

(I love her purple eyeliner!)

,Yeah, I was really hoping it was all a setup up and it was... I just couldn't see Alison doing that to her sestra, as bad as things were getting regarding Donnie.

Glad they didn't have Mrs S get a conscience and not kill Duko. I wouldn't have minded if she put that clamp on his nuts instead of his neck. The pressure alone would have been painful and adding a shock to it?  Woo boy!

I didn't mind Adele too much this ep because she was trying to help Donnie.  She actually had a funny line after seeing Alison for the first time,something about she looks like Sarah except more....?

I think my favorite part was hearing Rachel drolly utter the word "YO" back to Cosima. That cracked me up.

MK coughing up blood too. Ruh roh.

I liked the way Alison lit up and was Alison again after Felix relayed to her that Donnie was ok. 

I thought that scene with Alison and the priest talking could have been cut out. And it went on too long. IMO.

Edited June 3, 2016 by Valny

[kat165]

So glad Duko is dead. He didn't suffer enough. S was too kind.

Hope Helena is back next wk. I would have liked to have seen her get Duko, but I think S needed the release more.

[justmehere]

This show! Poor Alison and Donnie. I was afraid they were going to play Donnie in prison for laughs since the two of them are so often the comic relief. I'm glad they didn't, but that was tough to watch. I don't know if Alison playing the role of Judas in her musical production was supposed to be funny, but it felt too "on the nose" and wasn't funny.

Bless Felix for being such a good guy and still helping out. They kind of dropped his reluctance to participate with the whole thing. I know he genuinely cares for the sestras, but his personal situation feels a little unfinished.

I don't know whether to believe that Duko actually had a niece he was trying to protect. He seemed to enjoy his place in things, and his offer to work for Sarah made him look like a classic bully -- tough until someone calls him on his shit. If there is a niece, she will be taken care of, I guess. Art surprised me, sanctioning Siobhan's actions. I hope there's no blow-back on him. --It doesn't look like killing Duko will be as satisfying as Siobhan hoped. And another minion will no doubt take his place. I felt bad for Scott getting stuck with cleanup. I'm going to enjoy Evie Cho's downfall.

I do not trust Rachel. Who the hell is monitoring her through her eye? And if Susan implanted it... well, I guess she could be playing a long game herself. It's hard to tell. She could also be unaware. Whatever the case, the flash of the dead swan was pretty ominous. Alison might work with the others; Rachel will take care of herself. I'm worried for Cosima going into that isolated place. (Except, the question of Delphine's fate is still unanswered. Several ways that could go, including rescuer?)

Tatiana Maslany continues to completely amaze me. I can't believe there are only 2 episodes left. This season has flown by.

[vesperholly]

18 minutes ago, Valny said:

I didn't mind Adele too much this ep because she was trying to help Donnie.  She actually had a funny line after seeing Alison for the first time,something about she looks like Sarah except more....?

Hygienic. LOL

[snarktini]

22 minutes ago, Valny said:

I didn't mind Adele too much this ep because she was trying to help Donnie.  She actually had a funny line after seeing Alison for the first time,something about she looks like Sarah except more....?

 

"You look just like her except with, you know, less anger and more hygiene."

[godonlyknows]

Can anyone explain Cosima's "breakthrough" idea of combining Sarah's eggs with Castor to remake the original? Surely the embryo would still have the Duncans' synthetic sequences and they wouldn't be able to somehow replicate the part of Kendall's DNA that's missing from the clones?

Edited June 3, 2016 by godonlyknows

[randomania]

1 hour ago, godonlyknows said:

Can anyone explain Cosima's "breakthrough" idea of combining Sarah's eggs with Castor to remake the original? Surely the embryo would still have the Duncans' synthetic sequences and they wouldn't be able to somehow replicate the part of Kendall's DNA that's missing from the clones?

Here's what I'm figuring, based on science as laid out by the show, a couple of science sites and a college professor of mine who always seemed stoned:

Presumably, creating the blastocyst from Sarah's and Ira's, uh, raw material will give them something akin to what was originally made out of Kendall's genes. That might give Susan, Cos & co. enough to work with to create stem cells.

If that doesn't work, or it's just not mad-sciency enough: If they compare the Leda-Castor blastocyst's genome with Cosima's genome, they might be able to identify the areas of Cosima's genome that are affected by the synthetic sequences. I bet the Island of Dr. Duncan has a CRISPR setup, like all the other cool labs do. They could use CRISPR to edit out the bad stuff and put in some good stuff. A little hand-waving, and voila! Gene therapy!

Edited June 3, 2016 by randomania
Pronouns, man. Freakin' pronouns.

[holly4755]

Yes, it looks like Helena

Spoiler

is back next week and she is participating in another show - Alone. And she can catch fish so she can stay on the island a long time. I liked her shelter

they had a preview on afterblack

 

[natyxg]

I really liked this episode. The Allison and Donnie plot was kind of meh, but I really liked how everything is coming together: MK is back (and with an incentive to help), Cosima and Susan's camp working together, etc. I really like Rachel and have always wanted her to join the rest of her sestras, and they've set it up in a way that it would be believable if she did and she could be a great asset to the group... so please, PLEASE let's do that instead of her being awful and double crossing again.

Ira's hairdo bothers me. It really doesn't look good on him.

I'm curious to see what the hell is going on with Rachel's visions.

I liked Adele in this episode. I liked that underneath all of that she's a actually competent lawyer, or so it seems.

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, natyxg said:

I'm curious to see what the hell is going on with Rachel's visions.

And find out who that dude was that she saw, in addition to why the swan suddenly had its head cutoff.

[Gulftastic]

As a DVD extra, they should film one of Allison's musicals in full. 

So glad she didn't rat out Sarah. 

[beeble]

Alison as Judas in an all female Jesus Christ Superstar. Of course. Will she be playing Aaron Burr in a local version of Hamilton? 

I like the idea of Rachel and Cosima working together since they have not had too much to do together, and I like that pairing: the two best science educated clones. And Cosima has such a great sense of humor about being whisked away via helicopter to the creepy island. And while we had no word of Delphine, Rachel might discover a few clues that flicker around the swan in her hacked eye.

"Don't you get me wrong. Don't you get me wrong!!" That song won't leave my brain.

Edited June 3, 2016 by beeble
correct grammar is important

[Kaboom 2.0]

Duko had it coming. Glad S got some closure for her Ma, hoping this does not come back to haunt Art. Do we really have only two episodes left?! This season just flew by vs. last year when whenever we were shown any of the non-Mark Castors and any desert/military scenes I would immediately growl and roll my eyes.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Awww, poor Alison. Duko knew exactly how to squeeze her by pitting her love for Donnie against her loyalty to Sarah. He just happened to underestimate the Clone Club. Even if he was telling the truth about the Neolutionists threatening his niece, he seemed to enjoy being a dick. My only two regrets about what happened to Duko are that Siobhan put him out of his misery so quickly (because he really deserved to suffer after all the deaths he has caused) and that poor Scott had to clean up that bloody mess.

I just hope that none of this comes back on Art. Evie is not stupid and it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if she sent Duko looking for Sarah and then Duko disappeared, Sarah et al might have something to do with it. But mostly I love that Art was okay leaving Duko to be tortured and killed by Siobhan even though I know it means he has crossed a line (although I suppose you could argue that he crossed that line when he helped Beth after she shot that lady). Again my concern are the consequences. If Art knew about the phone being in her hand, I'm pretty sure Evie knows about that too.

And I am still worried about Donnie. He was this close to being killed. Hopefully he gets released on Monday before Evie finds out that Duko is missing. I still don't know how he's going to avoid being found guilty though.

The priest being so persistent about Alison unburdening herself made me very suspicious but I guess if he's been at that church since she and Donnie got married there, then maybe he's not working for the Neolutionists? Although it's also possible that they recently recruited him.

Poor Kira. She is always getting shushed, sent into other rooms, being told that people have to run errands, overhearing Sarah/Siobhan ask people to keep an eye on her while they're out on their Super Secret Missions, and generally feeling like a third wheel. I hope that this doesn't culminate in some crazy Firestarter explosion when she's finally sick of it.

I am so worried about Cosima being on that island. Being alone with Susan and Ira doesn't seem like the best idea. It sounds like Susan is seriously considering letting Rachel leave to "work with" Sarah. Rachel sounded a little too evil when she said she was looking forward to it. Sounds like she is planning some revenge.

I liked Adele in this episode. I liked that underneath all of that she's a actually competent lawyer, or so it seems.

Heh, I don't know if I'd go quite that far. She only did the most basic things by telling him to keep to himself, that he wouldn't be released until Monday, and that they would be collecting affidavits from his friends so show he wasn't a flight risk. I know that much just from watching L&O: SVU.

[TaraS1]

That priest gives me the creeps.  I definitely think there's more than meets the eye with him.

I can't believe we only have two episodes left either!  This has been such a strong season, I really hope the finale is as epic as it feels like it's going to be.

And I shall never tire of scenes of Jordan Gavaris putting on pants.

[kat165]

I wish they would have sent Cosima off with some backup. She's not really very good at espionage & self-protection.

Yeah, poor Kira. I wonder if anything will come off that. She's been shuttled off once too often and she looks very tired of it.

[godonlyknows]

For those like me who thought Sarah and Cosima's hideouts were the same place - I've been watching for shots of the exteriors of the buildings and have finally got it sorted out. The comic book store ("The Rabbit Hole") has Cosima's lab and bedroom in it, while Sarah and S's place ("Thomson Groceries") is somewhere else has has the large kitchen/dining room and Kira's bedroom with the mural. Makes more sense now that Sarah and Cosima skype but still means Kira is left unsupervised a lot.

[Cyranetta]

Jesus Christ Superstar was particularly appropriate as a centerpiece to this ep, since it represents an intersection between role-playing and ritual.

Donnie tries to play the role of a hard-bitten drug dealer, but will later get caught up in the classic extortion ritual. 

Ira and Rachel have been stripped of their former roles and are trying to work out just what roles they are to play.

Cosima, Sarah and Rachel are also trying to figure out new roles with regards to each other. It's a whole new stage, and they need to find how to be their own author/director. Although hardly the Three Graces, they can operate as a kind of classical trio of Heart, Body, Mind (and although Cosima's mode of operation is science, hers is the most heart-oriented attitude of the three).

Charlotte, Rachel and Susan might reflect another trio of roles from myth: Maiden, Mother, Crone, but in a distorted form.

Kira's developing role looks like an old role in the universe of Orphan Black: monitor, although with far more benevolent motives and methods.

Felix's potential new role is somewhat ironic. He “ministers” to the Clone Club, with far more grace and empathy than Alison's formal minister (whom it would not surprise me to be revealed as one of the assorted anti-clone forces — he just gave off a smarmy vibe that set my nerves on edge for Alison). And based on how she behaved as Donnie's ad hoc lawyer, she may actually wind up being a true sibling to Felix as a "minister" to the clones.

Sarah and S can't just re-establish their old roles with regards to each other, but S certainly assumes an old role with a vengeance (literally and to the satisfaction of the audience).

Alison does seem to be thrust too literally into the role of Judas (and what a wonderful run of acting moments by TM when switching between Alison as Judas worrying about Donnie, and Alison singing in joy when she learns of his release from that dangerous ritual. It's almost another variant of a clone playing another clone. What a position she's faced with, though, since allegiance she owes to the clones (and they to her) is probably more intense than with the usual run of blood relatives, and her allegiance to her nuclear family is equally intense.

Rachel's increasingly bizarre “downloads” are bewildering. Is she learning to monitor something, or is something monitoring her?

M.K. Now has a (tentative) role as a Clone Club functioning member, and a de factor member of the Diseased Clone Club.

Duko has been co-opted from his official role as a good force in society, and how appropriate in this ep that he can use the language of D & D with such menace, since D & D is the very definition of role-playing.

Art is another “minister'” to the Clone Club, which he best accomplishes by temporarily abandoning his official role and allowing S to fulfill her ritual.

[Valny]

I wonder where they dumped Duko? If there's some acid left from Ferdinand maybe he got an acid bath. :)  

1 hour ago, kat165 said:

I wish they would have sent Cosima off with some backup. She's not really very good at espionage & self-protection.

Yeah, poor Kira. I wonder if anything will come off that. She's been shuttled off once too often and she looks very tired of it.

  He's looking good this season!

[Kaboom 2.0]

I'd like to see Ferdinand again before the season ends, especially if Rachel really will be let go from Susan's island to work with Sarah and Clone Club. Thanks again to everyone that posts here, love to read your thoughts, analyses, theories, etc. :)

[Not Beth]

Such a step up after what we got last week. I enjoyed this episode so much more.

I felt so bad for Alison throughout so much of the episode. I'm so glad that she did tell Felix what was going on (even if we didn't get to see this) so as he could get Mrs S and Sarah prepared for their meeting with Duko.

"Yo, Rachel." "Yo." Standout part of the episode even if I'm only paraphrasing.

Adele was a lot better in this episode than any previous episode. That twin sister excuse worked for now.

And MK only decided to get back in touch because she's ill now. So she really doesn't care for the sestra-hood, just for what they can do to help her... I'm liking MK less and less.

[mjc570]

Scott really is the guy.  He was rocking those rubber gloves!

I miss Helena, don't miss Krystal at all. 

[Conan Troutman]

17 hours ago, kat165 said:

So glad Duko is dead. He didn't suffer enough. S was too kind.

Hope Helena is back next wk. I would have liked to have seen her get Duko, but I think S needed the release more.

Not!Dr.Chilton really needed to go. I was hoping Mads Mikkelsen would appear and eat him, but I guess S killing him is okay, too. 

Yeah, where's Helena? The last episodes were really boring without her. It's all been darkness and despair, even Alison didn't get any fun stuff to do. So glad we're finally back to normal. Speaking of Helena: Are her embryos she buried in Alison's garden still good? I guess you could get a ton of stem cells out of them if they were. 

[Lady Calypso]

I understand MK to an extent. I know that she can't trust anyone because of what happened in Helsinki, and then with Beth. Her trust can only go so far, and she barely knows Sarah and the other sestras. Even with her research and her ability to hack into systems, she has only started to get to know them personally. So her coming to them seems to be out of desperation. She knows that Sarah doesn't trust her after what she's done, but she doesn't have any other choice. Now she's dying too and she has to do what she can to survive.

But that doesn't mean Sarah needs to help, and I would not blame her. MK is only technically part of the sestrahood because she's a clone. Other than that, there's no other reason to include her in anything. She is useful in some areas, such as getting information that the others can't. She can be useful as long as they learn to trust one another. So I'm interested in seeing how MK learns to trust the sestrahood more. I'm actually curious about MK meeting Alison for the first time. Seeing as both girls were the closest with Beth, I'd love to see them talking about her.

I felt bad for the Hendrix family. Donnie being assaulted in prison and Alison having to deal with her worrying as she meets with Duko, and it looks like next episode is not going to get any easier. Although this plot still had some comedic effects, it also had some really dark moments that I was surprised about. I thought that they'd want to show some funnier moments in prison for Donnie, but poor guy looked scared out of his mind for all of his scenes. Excellent job by Kristian Bruun. This time, Alison got directly involved in the action. Usually she has her own family drama, but having to see her deal with a direct clone issue along with her family was something sort of new for her. I think Tatiana Maslany did an excellent job with Alison this week. Despite the priest being there and not needing to be, Alison's plot was still tense. It was nice to see her not sell out Sarah and have her give Duko up to Siobhan while still being able to save Donnie. 

I am still thrilled Felix is back in the action, so I didn't mind when Adele showed up this week. She wasn't totally useful, but she provided at least some advice to Donnie. Plus, when Adele meets another clone, Felix is going to have to serve up another lie ('oh...did I say twins? I meant triplets').

Duko's death, I have a feeling, could end up backfiring on Art. I've gotten a feeling throughout this season that Art is going to crack at some point and he's going to get into serious trouble, either by the police, by Neolutionists, or by Leda/Castor. 

I'm not surprised Siobhan killed Duko, though. It's about time, and since there's two episodes left (TWO! This season has gone by so quickly), I guess they want to wrap all of this up to deal with the Delphine stuff next season. I wonder if they're actually going to develop the cure by the finale, or if it'll happen next season. 

Rachel's glitching is going to mean something by the finale, I'm sure of it. What it means, I have no idea. I also miss Mark; Ira isn't as bad as some of the other male clones, but he's no Mark. 

Scott is great. I'm really glad they've kept him around.

I wonder if all this secrecy around Kira is going to lead to her doing something drastic. I mean, she seems to have some sort of psychic ability, or an empathic ability. She clearly is more important than any of them realize. I just think Kira could become a major player next season. 

[MissLucas]

So, Evie is monitoring all computers on NotDrMoreau's island but not the heli-pad or Susan's finances (someone had to pay for that trip)?

I appreciate that Mrs S finally took the gun to good use - but you should clean up after your own mess, lady!

[Conan Troutman]

37 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

 

Rachel's glitching is going to mean something by the finale, I'm sure of it. What it means, I have no idea.

It's about the man she saw in that vision - Dr. Swan. He and Susan Duncan's are Evie Choo's biological parents and he's in charge of a secret race change program. 

[feverfew]

1 hour ago, Lady Calypso said:

 I also miss Mark; Ira isn't as bad as some of the other male clones, but he's no Mark.

I'm very interested in the CASTOR clones; for some reason Sarah's (and Cosima's, which surprises me) sense of family doesn't extend to their brothers - Sarah going so far as to condemn them to death for their biology - and it bothers me slightly. You could make a case for Sarah hating CASTOR for her experiences in the desert, but then again there's Mark (and Rachel - Sarah knows not all clones are alike).

I find Ira even more interesting than Mark - and I want him and Rachel to take down Susan. I had hoped that Mark would stick around the sestras last season (preferable without his girlfriend), but I'll be more than happy to get a more in-depth look at CASTOR via Ira (and not in the sociopathic-twincest way we got last season).

26 minutes ago, Conan Troutman said:

It's about the man she saw in that vision - Dr. Swan. He and Susan Duncan's are Evie Choo's biological parents and he's in charge of a secret race change program. 

Is this spoilers, or are you just guessing? If it's the latter I like it very much (if it's the former, waaaayy to spoilerific, dude ;))

[Blackie]

Was that Strombo in the preview for next week????

[LittleIggy]

I hope they get a cure for Cosima this season. There are enough other storylines that they don't need to drag this one out even more.

[thuganomics85]

Figured Duko was a goner, but he actually should consider himself lucky, because S could have done a lot worse to him.  Sure, a few shocks and a gunshot to the chest still sucks, but I think S is capable of much, much worse.  I do wonder what the fallout would be over the death/disappearance of not only a top Neolution hitman, but an actual cop as well.  I hope this doesn't blow back on Art somehow.

Oh, Donnie.  He was probably going to get made no matter what, but trying to play up your "criminal deeds", was probably not the smartest idea he had, but then again, this is Donnie we're talking about.  Not surprised that Alison did consider betraying Sarah, because as much as she cares for her sister, Donnie really seems to be her everything.  But I'm glad Felix got to her in time and managed to convince her to trust them to find another way. I'm glad the show has always made Felix/Alison an important duo, because I can easily buy Felix would be the one person who Alison would trust enough to risk it possibly blowing up in their faces.  Glad it worked out for now!  And, of course the musical!  I'm all for Alison singing again.  Especially since Tatiana Maslany continues to be great at it, like almost everything on this show.

I hope this cure that Cosima and Susan thought up of works, because I do think it's time to move past this particular plot-line.  I'm guessing that M.K. is now getting sick too, so they better make it fast!

Rachel interacting with both Sarah and Cosima over the computer screen was awesome.  I love it when Rachel interacts with the rest of the Clones, because of the hostility and history they have with each other.  I can't wait to see more of it next week, hopefully.  And Scott clearly hating her still was a nice touch.

Adele actually came through as Donnie's lawyer for the most part.  Still not sure if I trust her, but I liked seeing a different side to her.  Speaking of not trusting, I'm really getting suspicious of Alison's preacher.  I feel like he's getting too nosy and invested, and it is more then just him being concerned over her well-being.

Rachel now saw some guy in her eye-glitch.  This stuff is crazy!

Only two episodes left!  Yep, this season has easily been one of my favorites of this show!

[Emily Thrace]

The way Rachel was grinning at the dead swan makes me think shes going to try to take out the head of Leda. Whether that means her mother or Sarah I'm not sure yet. I don't see Rachel surviving another attack on Sarah. Although I wouldn't be shocked if Susan doesn't last past season. Either way I don't see both mother and daughter surviving the season.

[Not Beth]

7 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I appreciate that Mrs S finally took the gun to good use - but you should clean up after your own mess, lady!

I agree. When they began to show the clean up the next morning, I was thinking that it was good of Mrs S to clean up her mess, just for them to reveal it's Scott. Clone Club really does take advantage of Scott's loyalty sometimes...

Also, I may have watched too much Dexter recently, because I couldn't help but think that since it was very likely that the evening would end with S shooting him, they could have covered the comic shop with some plastic sheets to avoid too much cleaning up of Duko's blood and guts later.

[Ravenya003]

Last week they reminded us of the myth of Leda, making me wonder what Rachel's visions of a swan actually mean. If the female clones are Leda, and the male clones are Castor (who was Leda's son in the myth) then the old man in Rachel's vision is ... Zeus? The guy who impregnated Leda and fathered Castor in the first place? This could get very creepy.

Also, a question: have we ever had any substantial explanation given as to why Sarah is not only immune to the clone disease but able to have children? Once upon a time those traits felt like a big deal, but now I'm wondering whether it's important at all. I'd like to think so. On a similar note, we've seen both Helena and Kira demonstrate near superhuman healing abilities (remember back in season one when Kira got hit by a car, taken to the ER, and a nurse said to a doctor: "you have to take a look at this" right before we got the news she was miraculously/mysteriously okay?) Do you think we'll ever get answers on that?

[Ailianna]

The fertility was explained as a "flaw" in Sarah (and Helena).  I don't think they've forgotten about Sarah's immunity, and obviously not about her fertility, since that's why it had to be Sarah's egg instead of Rachel's (I mean, she was right on the spot if any clone's eggs would do), but like other things, it won't come p again until they are ready for it.  I liked the mention by Art of Raj, during his phone call to find things out about Duko.  I like Raj, and I would definitely like to see him again.

I'm loving this season, and definitely wishing they had 13 episodes instead of only 10!

[Rambler]

13 hours ago, Conan Troutman said:

Yeah, where's Helena? The last episodes were really boring without her. It's all been darkness and despair, even Alison didn't get any fun stuff to do. So glad we're finally back to normal. Speaking of Helena: Are her embryos she buried in Alison's garden still good? I guess you could get a ton of stem cells out of them if they were. 

I guess the writers had to make Helena disappear for a while or else the bad guys would all be dead within about 10 minutes after Kendall was shot. It seems weird that Evie Cho is concentrating all her efforts on finding Sarah when there is an unstoppable killing machine running around loose. Hopefully Helena will be back soon as I would like to see her in full Terminator mode with her crazy theme music at least once this season.

 

11 hours ago, feverfew said:

I'm very interested in the CASTOR clones; for some reason Sarah's (and Cosima's, which surprises me) sense of family doesn't extend to their brothers - Sarah going so far as to condemn them to death for their biology - and it bothers me slightly. You could make a case for Sarah hating CASTOR for her experiences in the desert, but then again there's Mark (and Rachel - Sarah knows not all clones are alike).

Sarah and Cosima don't want to find a cure for the Castors because they found out that military doctor turned them into bioweapons. The Castors make the women they have sex with infertile.

[Jodithgrace]

I laughed at the detail of the neolutionist hitman sticking his shiv into his mouth while he untied Donnie. After all, it WAS a former toothbrush.

I didn't think it was too on the nose to have Alison play Judas in JCST, because it was done so subtlety. It's not like they announced, "and playing the part of Judas, Alison Hendrix." No, she just came out in partial costume with the other cast members and sang, and you only knew she was Judas if you were familiar with the musical. I, for instance, didn't realize she was Judas at first, because as much as I know the music by heart, I have never actually seen a production. So, well done.

I wonder what the congregation will make of this all female production. Obviously the priest is all for it. I'm not sure why all priests and ministers on TV are cast so creepily (like "Pastor Groovyhair" on the Americans) He seems perfectly legit, but of course we can't trust anybody on this show. 

I do hope that we are now in the end game of finding a cure for clone disease. Poor Cosima and now M.K. 

People have asked about Helena's embryos. She buried them because they ran out of liquid nitrogen and died. She said, sadly"I didn't know I was supposed to feed you liquid nitrogen." However, since they were still in the storage container, would they still be intact? Could they still be used for DNA? 

[feverfew]

14 minutes ago, Rambler said:

Sarah and Cosima don't want to find a cure for the Castors because they found out that military doctor turned them into bioweapons. The Castors make the women they have sex with infertile.

I know; but it's no more the individual clone's fault than the genetic disease that's killing LEDA clones. I just find it hypocritical of both Sarah and Cosima and I'll bet if it were LEDA clones rendering males infertile, Cosima would do anything in her powers to fix it - like she's trying to fix herself. Also, if genemodification is possible for LEDA clones, isn't it possible to fix that flaw in CASTOR's genetic make-up?

I don't know - I'm just bothered by Sarah and Cosima issuing a blanket death sentence.

[tennisgurl]

7 hours ago, Jodithgrace said:

I'm not sure why all priests and ministers on TV are cast so creepily (like "Pastor Groovyhair" on the Americans)

I was totally thinking of Groovyhair from The Americans in this guys scene with Allison. I kept expecting Allison to tell him that she just found out her parents are actually spies. 

I love how excited Cosima is about being whisked off to a creepy supervillain island. I always love her energy. 

[MissLucas]

10 hours ago, Ailianna said:

The fertility was explained as a "flaw" in Sarah (and Helena). 

I had always assumed that the 'flaw' happened during the splitting of the zygote which somehow turned off whatever causes clone-crud. You know because 'science'.

I'm still not quite over Helena carrying around that container with her eggs without telling anybody a word about it until the 'babies' had died. I don't think their DNA would still be viable. Since they've now harvested some of Sarah's eggs the 'babies' seem to have no served no purpose whatsoever except driving me crazy. Speaking of Helena - I realize that she can easily overshadow the other clones and their plot-lines but having her disappear for several episodes each season is starting to grate.

[kat165]

It bothers me that Helena's eggs in a cannister was basically a McGuffin and for so long too. I wonder if they'd intended some other fate for those eggs and then the plotline got dropped. They were around too long and too obviously unnoticed for nothing of consquence to become of them. I'm wondering if they can still contrive a storyline from them, maybe for Cos to some sciencey thing with them that we wouldn't have thought of.

[slf]

11 hours ago, feverfew said:

I know; but it's no more the individual clone's fault than the genetic disease that's killing LEDA clones. I just find it hypocritical of both Sarah and Cosima and I'll bet if it were LEDA clones rendering males infertile, Cosima would do anything in her powers to fix it - like she's trying to fix herself. Also, if genemodification is possible for LEDA clones, isn't it possible to fix that flaw in CASTOR's genetic make-up?

I don't know - I'm just bothered by Sarah and Cosima issuing a blanket death sentence.

I think with Clones like Mark it's a gray area but most of the Castor clones we met seemed aware of what was happening and were going along with it (whereas most of the Leda clones have rejected their makers and everyone else who's reached out to them, trusting only each other). I think they are setting up Sarah and Cosima to coming around, helping Castor too, probably because of Ari.

Also, it's not like the Leda clones are killing the Castor clones, they just aren't prioritizing helping them.