Acting, or at least a facsimile of it...

[caracas1914]

Ceeg: And that's because of Naya.

 

 

Yes, Naya also created through sheer acting skills a formidable screen presence for Santana, before she was even highlighted in anyway in a Glee  SL.   Santana was never introduced with a splashy intro song or SL and yet Naya helped make her a credible and compelling  character

Edited February 12, 2015 by caracas1914

[caracas1914]

Jayma Mays for all the acting prizes.

 

Broad comedy, light comic, heavy dramatics, etc....the woman is amazing, and she can sing.

[Sara2009]

Jayma Mays for all the acting prizes.

Broad comedy, light comic, heavy dramatics, etc....the woman is amazing, and she can

sing.

I think she's the perfect example of an actor turning a thinly drawn character into a fully fleshed out one. Jayma gives Emma layers even when the writers fail to.

[fakeempress]

From the Darren/Blaine thread:

 

 

Then on top of that you had his ever changing characterization (he's older, no wait he's younger; he's confident, no wait he's a needy mess).

Regarding age: it was a lazy way to keep Blaine at MKH one more year, and that's the only reason it was ever mentioned (just once, I think). I don't think the age retcon specifically required a huge acting adjustment that could throw off an actor. Other kids' ages also fluctuated due to plot. Chris thought his character was younger, and then suddenly Kurt was graduating, but I don't think he changed anything due to that, just took it as age is just a number. 

Edited February 12, 2015 by fakeempress

[SeanC]

As far as changing Blaine's age, I agree that by that point in the character's "development" it didn't really change anything.  Making him younger than Kurt was absurdly silly considering where he'd started, but the damage to the original character was already done when they completely undercut his being an older mentor-type figure.

[caracas1914]

if you pay attention to the details Kurt isn't necessarily flamboyantly effeminate as portrayed by Chris. Early Kurt is more icy, walls up and snarky.

Compare him to the NYADA sycophants of Season 4 to see a different acting approach to effeminate. Both those characters were in Jack vein of Will and Grace than Chris as Kurt ever was.

Chris said he had a very distinct concept for Kurt.

[fakeempress]

if you pay attention to the details Kurt isn't necessarily flamboyantly effeminate as portrayed by Chris. Early Kurt is more icy, walls up and snarky.

Compare him to the NYADA sycophants of Season 4 to see a different acting approach to effeminate. Both those characters were in Jack vein of Will and Grace than Chris as Kurt ever was.

 

Chris said he had a very distinct concept for Kurt.

IMO the view of Kurt as effeminate or flaming queen doesn't come from the portrayal but from the show's insistence to paint him in this corner through stories like WSS, and the jabs other characters use for him, like the notorious Lady Hummel. Repeat it 10 times, it becomes truth. I also mentioned how some fans and/or viewers impose their own stereotyping on the character just because he's a fashionista and likes "typical" gay icons and musicals. Some also assume he plays himself just because he's gay irl, and some of his life stories were a jumping off point for some of Kurt's.

 

Chris said in one of the book tour interviews last summer how the question he wished he got more often was about his creative process to flesh Kurt out. 

[caracas1914]

Some of my favorite acting scenes.

S3: The aftermath of the DoubleTree Doppelgangers in the car with Hummelberry after they realize they are NOT that special and the cruel world may let them down. I don't always like how Hummelberry is written but the actors in this scene evoked both comedy and drama to pound home why the two characters needed each other.

Santana explaining to Hummelberry and Adam why Brody (are you guys blind?) is a drug dealer. Naya as comic goddess, nuff said, and the other actors played beautifully against her with their reaction shots and timing.

Run Joey Run...Now this is how you do OTT comedy. Lea and company for all the prizes. I don't know if Brittanna as angels was good acting, but fuck...it worked!!

[Ceeg]

In terms of acting, the only thing I think Jenna does well are silent reaction shots in the choir room. Heather always did well with crying scenes, and I think she does fine with comedic one-liners too. Dianna and Melissa make me feel like I took a sleeping pill, although Dianna has some intangible charisma that helps her out. Becca is good with comedy, but I'll admit I never saw her do anything dramatic because I stopped watching after a few episodes in season 4. Naya and Lea are the only girls I think can do both comedy and drama well. I can't speak for the new new kids, because I haven't seen any episodes where they've been featured.

 

As for the guys, I think the only actor that has never taken me out of a scene has been Chris. 

 

(Disclaimer, I didn't discuss the adults, because I think they're all good at all facets of what they had to do)

[jaytee1812]

All I want from an actor is the provoke emotion. Lea and Naya have never done that. The writing for Rachel has, and usually not in a good way.

For all the dreck she had in season 4 even when Marley infuriated me I felt for her. Same with Quinn seasons 1-3.

And I have to say the only emotion I've felt during season 6 was Kitty's 'they all abandoned me' and Tina proposing to Mike.

[camussie]

Becca is a fabulous dancer but I think she is a mediocre actress and a lot of it has to do with the vocal fry aspect to her speech patterns.  It completely takes me out of scenes, especially dramatic scenes, because it undercuts them substantially.

 

Melissa a very good actress even as I think she could have added more spark to Marley.

 

Dianna is okay.  One thing she excelled at was staying in character in background scenes.  

 

Jenna is not good.  Neither is Heather.  

 

Wade started out bad but she improved so much.  Same with Amber.  

 

Naya and Lea are probably the best among the younger cast.  I have also been quite impressed with little we have seen of Sammie this year.

Edited March 13, 2015 by camussie

[dizzyizzy01]

From the media thread:

I think Heather is quite obviously the weakest, no argument there. Lea and Naya are meh, they're not bad, but never seen any wow.

Of the kids throughout the show I think Melissa, Becca and Sammie are the best.

 

 

Of the originals, Heather was by far the worst anytime she had more than 1 line to say, but Dianna and Jenna we're really average to me.  They were serviceable in most plots, but had a few real clunkers also.  I mean a lot of it was writing, but skank Quinn was so so terrible.  Her crying when she was thrown out of her house in S1 wasn't very good either.  Jenna just cannot carry any type of dramatic scene and her comedic timing isn't very good either.  I think she works fine as a supporting character though.

 

I think Melissa was just really boring and really flat on Glee.  Seems like she's really much better outside of Glee though so that's good.  I don't think we've seen enough of Sammie to really make a judgment.  Becca definitely made Kitty interesting, but I certainly wouldn't say she's the best.  She's the best out of the new kids though.

[SNeaker]

The thing about Dianna is that the camera loves her. It's not just her beauty, it's that kind of strange enchanting thing that you can't really put your finger on. But then she speaks and it's flat flat flat monotone emotionless flaaaaat. She seems like a cool person, though, so I like her as a person even as I think her acting is beyond mediocre. She's fabulous in music videos.

 

Jenna is a terrible actress, full stop. More than two words, and it's all downhill. She can't do comedy or drama. They should have let her sing more, but keeping her in the background storyline-wise for the first three seasons was a sound decision, imo.

 

Heather's great at crying and one-liners, and has potential to be better with more I believe, but I think some of those terrible Brittany speeches and scenes were a result of both bad direction and bad character choices.

 

Amber started off very clunky in the acting department, but with great great charisma that pulled her through, as well as good comic timing (I feel the same about Mark.) She improved quite a bit as the show went on.

 

Naya and Lea are truly, deeply talented to me. They're fantastic at both comedy and drama, and are clearly the types to really think about their characters and motivations. (Far more so than the writers.)

[dizzyizzy01]

The thing about Dianna is that the camera loves her. It's not just her beauty, it's that kind of strange enchanting thing that you can't really put your finger on. But then she speaks and it's flat flat flat monotone emotionless flaaaaat. She seems like a cool person, though, so I like her as a person even as I think her acting is beyond mediocre. She's fabulous in music videos.

 

Dianna really is very very good in the "I'm not the Only One" video.  The Killers video though...I'm not sure she quite pulled that one off.  But I also didn't really like the overall concept of that video. She's incredibly photogenic though.

[fakeempress]

Sneaker, spot on descriptions. 

 

Personally, Dianna reads very inert to me even in her silent moments. Also, she is one of those actresses who for some reason deliver a lot of lines with a smile of their face. I call it the Hilarie Burton style of acting. 

[Lady Calypso]

I agree with Sneaker's descriptions. I think they're pretty much spot on. I am not a Santana fan, which I'm sure you guys have heard me say many times before, but I don't equate my dislike/lukewarm reception of Santana on Naya's acting. I recognize that Naya is talented. Lea and Naya both have had their off moments with the acting, Lea in particular (I guess it's because she's a theatrical actress and not a cinematic actress first that makes the difference) but she also is quite good when she needs to be, especially with the comedy.

 

As for the guys, I think the only actor that has never taken me out of a scene has been Chris.

 

 

I can agree with this, and I would absolutely add in Cory. Despite all of Finn's flaws, Cory's acting was almost always spot on and he never had a bad acting moment that took me out of a scene. But yeah Chris, with his no professional experience, did a pretty great job with the acting portions of it. He's always been great to watch, even with the mediocre writing that his character had been given. 

 

I have an odd fondness for Dianna. I know she's not a breakout actress, or really that fantastic, but something about her makes me enjoy watching her onscreen. Her monotone line delivery is oddly enchanting to me. I can't even fully describe it, but I've always enjoyed Dianna and she always tried with her character, even when it didn't make a lick of sense. 

[ancslove]

I think Dianna's physical acting as Quinn was consistently strong.  Her mannerisms and posture/body language were clear, and very different from Dianna's own, and she carried that over into most of the music performances.   Even in the season-opening promo pics, Dianna was being Quinn, whereas Jane, Jenna, Naya, and Heather often were out of character and flashing huge smiles.  Her line delivery could be oddly monotone, but I kind of think it still works for the character.  Someone like Quinn would have learned to shield her true emotions and project whatever would most benefit her, from a very early age.  Some scenes still fell flat, but I think she sold most of the big ones.  Even the not-breaking-down-crying in Season 1, because Quinn is the type who just cannot let herself fully cry.  And Dianna's/Quinn's icily superior take on the HBIC was very different from Sue's and Santana's, which I appreciated.  

[caracas1914]

If you want to look at some good "group" ensemble acting, look how effortless the NY Glee folks made it look in "Girls on Film", when Santana, after "Come what May", first reminds Kurt of him and Blaine and then confronts Rachel, Kurt and Adam about Brody the drug dealer.  While Naya is leading the scene (beautifully) the other actors in their reactions are playing so well off of her.  There is a rhythym and chemistry  and I always thougth those 3 (Lea, Naya and Chris) had an ease playing against each other. 

 

This is the kind of comic playing that wasn't overplayed and Naya just kills it.  I think that scene more than any other shows the difference between the acting among the McKinley crowd and the NY Glee crowd.  Among the younger actors.

Edited March 14, 2015 by caracas1914

[heyerchick]

Having worked for a lot of years with teens, I know that not all of them, not even all the supposedly colourful arts students, are great balls of fire. For that reason, I tend to be forgiving of even the poorer actors on the show. The awkwardness in some of their performances, in some of their scenes, is not unlike the real life awkwardness I've seen so many, many times.

 

Of course response to acting and to actors is massively subjective. I think that Matt, Jane, Jayma, Jessalyn and Dot are all terrific actors among the 'adults.' Among the 'kids,' I feel Chris, Lea, Naya and Cory are the strongest actors. There have been times when their characters have all been plain unlikeable, more times when the writing choices for them make no fucking sense on any narrative level, flat out contradict what came before and will come after, and are as far from an emotional truth as it's possible to get, but I've still retained a sense of a 'real' character, an internal logic and truth the actor has carried through in their performance. That's a big part of the reason why I rate Chris, Lea, Naya and Cory so highly. They've all done good work, they've all done excellent work, they've all made some outright unflattering or unsympathetic acting choices at times. But I have to agree with ceeg that of them all, Chris is the only one who hasn't pulled me out of a scene. He certainly hasn't taken an easy path with his acting choices for Kurt, but I've never had the sense that he as an actor has checked out or bored or phoning it in. 

 

It doesn't 'hurt to hear' that, as a Chris stan, other people think he has. That's their prerogative, their response to his performance and his acting choices. But the stating of that opinion doesn't make it either a point of fact in general, or a point of truth for me. I think there's always that internal character truth and consistency within Chris, that sense of who Kurt is, and Kurt has responded to the various situations the writers have subjected him to with a weariness, a disaffectedness that even I, an unapologetic Kurt stan, have found hard to watch at times. To me though, it's a deliberate if difficult path through performing Kurt in those circumstances. It's character, not actor.

[Glorfindel]

It doesn't 'hurt to hear' that, as a Chris stan, other people think he has. That's their prerogative, their response to his performance and his acting choices. But the stating of that opinion doesn't make it either a point of fact in general, or a point of truth for me. I think there's always that internal character truth and consistency within Chris, that sense of who Kurt is, and Kurt has responded to the various situations the writers have subjected him to with a weariness, a disaffectedness that even I, an unapologetic Kurt stan, have found hard to watch at times. To me though, it's a deliberate if difficult path through performing Kurt in those circumstances. It's character, not actor.

As a fellow unapologetic Chris stan I can only agree of course. ;)

This reminds me of what Brian Dannelly (the director of 'Saved' and 'Struck By Lightning') recently said about Chris:

“Some actors are incredibly good at [continuity]. Allison Janney is so good at continuity it’s effortless. Chris Colfer is really good at continuity. Like they have an extra skill set where, you know, sometimes…it’s always a performance and the authenticity of the performance coming from the actor but when they bring it to that next level…it’s probably a simple process but it still amazes me that in addition to being in the moment there is this other craft going on that’s unnoticeable almost…Chris does it…I think it was just born into him.”

 

For me keeping that continuity in your character, even when the writing is all over the place and contradicts itself sometimes even within an episode, makes a big difference on who I consider a good actor and who not. On Glee I think (of the 'kids') Cory, Lea, Naya and Chris were able to do that, when the writing for them was  just as atrocious sometimes as for other characters. 

Cory and Lea suffered the most from the writers' whims that gave their characters different personalities from episode to episode because they got a lot of storylines and screentime (together and apart), but they were able to keep the core of their characters intact for the most part, and could evoke more sympathy and empathy for their characters than they probably deserved at time (although seasons 5+6 Rachel is almost unrecognizable from Rachel seasons 1+2).

 

On the other hand Naya and Chris never got that much focus and individual storylines, and therefore they only had little screentime and opportunities to show what their characters were thinking and how they developed over the seasons. But both did amazing with the little they got. Naya managed to work herself to the foreground by her solid acting in the first 2 seasons, often only in the background. And in the latter part of season 5 she easily picked up where the writers left her character in limbo during the split narrative, and also in season 6 in the few episodes they had for the Brittana engagement and wedding.

Even though Kurt was basically silenced after Blaine cheated on him Chris was able to show more emotion and development of Kurt in just one look or little scene that was granted him per episode than (imo) Darren could in several episodes devoted to Blaine's woes. And Chris remembered what his character went through, especially Kurt's relationship with Blaine: the romantic bubble burst apart for Kurt in seasons 4 and 5 so Chris acted Kurt more wary and never let Kurt go back to being naïve and blindly in love with Blaine (even though Kurt still loved him), not even when that was what the Klaine fans wanted (and loudly let him know that via twitter and such).

 

Most of the 'adult' actors on the show can keep their characters consistent too, like Matt and Jayma. I've grown to really dislike Sue but I greatly respect Jane Lynch for still being able to at least make some sense of Sue's insane storylines, and to maintain some continuity for her character with all the whiplashing and mood swings Sue went through.

Dot-Marie had some hits and misses imo, but she was terrific in the spousal abuse storyline, and the way she handled the basically pulled out of nowhere retcon storyline of Beiste always wanting to be and transitioning to a man was admirable.

 

I can't really say much about the other actors on the show. Some are okay, others can be okay but sometimes are cringeworthy to watch, and some of them are just cringeworthy most of the time imo. I don't put any of them on the same level acting wise as the people I mentioned above, as none of them have been able to keep much (if any) continuity for their characters, and all of them have at one point or another completely taken me out of a scene, most of them more often than once.

But I admit that this is probably mostly based on personal preference and conception. The ability to maintain character continuity however is I think a more unbiased 'measurable' factor when it comes to judging a creative art like acting.

[fakeempress]

 

Cory and Lea suffered the most from the writers' whims that gave their characters different personalities from episode to episode

I don't think that's true. It's more apt for Quinn's case.

[Glorfindel]

I don't think that's true. It's more apt for Quinn's case.

True, but the sentence you quoted was when I was talking strictly about the actors who imo managed to keep continuity in their character despite the writing, and I don't think Dianna was able to do that. Compared to Naya and Chris (who I mentioned alongside Cory and Lea) Cory and Lea suffered more from the fickle writing.

 

All actors on Glee have had to deal with some whiplash WTF?! writing, as character continuity is definitely not RIB's strongest suit.

Those who got more storylines and focus obviously suffered more from the bad writing and the OOC u-turns.

But otoh those who had less screentime and focus also had less opportunity to string together onscreen whatever their character was doing or feeling from episode to episode, depending on the whims of RIB. And they also often had the bad luck that their characters were just inserted as props into someone else storyline, to be a mouthpiece and give a certain viewpoint that RIB wanted to be expressed without the writers really caring about the character expressing it, and therefore what they said or did often went against that character's individual canon history, development and characterisation.

Although to be fair: that sometimes happened to the main characters as well.

 

Bottomline: the writing on Glee was a mess, with hardly any continuity, with the writers retconning canon just to suit their newest whims, and them not writing primarily for characters but writing storylines (PSA's) first and only then trying to fit characters into them.

In retrospect it's amazing how long many of the cast of Glee managed to keep their character somewhat believable and relatable throughout the seasons, even some of the weaker actors.

[fakeempress]

 

True, but the sentence you quoted was when I was talking strictly about the actors who imo managed to keep continuity in their character despite the writing,

I don't think the following is true in itself: that Rachel and Finn had different personalities from episode to episode. 

[Glorfindel]

I don't think the following is true in itself: that Rachel and Finn had different personalities from episode to episode. 

In season 3 they definitely had. One moment Rachel was hell-bent for New York, and the next she was willing to follow Finn to L.A. or stay in Lima for another year to be Finn's little housewive. Finn went back and forth a few times too in that season.

And then there of course was the disastreous season 5 with Rachel and 'Funny Girl'.

 

I admit "different personalities from episode to episode" is perhaps a slight exaggeration on my part, but both actors dealt with a lot of crappy WTF?! storylines for their characters in the (later) seasons.

[dizzyizzy01]

There were definitely a lot of WTF out-of-character stories for pretty much any character that had any significant amount of screen time.

[mercfan3]

From the Darren/Blaine thread:

 

Regarding age: it was a lazy way to keep Blaine at MKH one more year, and that's the only reason it was ever mentioned (just once, I think). I don't think the age retcon specifically required a huge acting adjustment that could throw off an actor. Other kids' ages also fluctuated due to plot. Chris thought his character was younger, and then suddenly Kurt was graduating, but I don't think he changed anything due to that, just took it as age is just a number. 

 

I think in general, it wouldn't. But I think with Blaine, it did. 

 

Darren had played Blaine as both a confident golden boy...and somewhat of a mentor for Kurt. The Sex talk, something Chris has talked about as being one of the most important things the show has done with Kurt and Blaine, doesn't really work with Blaine as the younger less mature of the two characters. It changed the dynamics of the relationship completely. 

 

I maintain that there was no way for Darren to make Blaine consistent. Because Blaine was never a character, he was always a prop for the plot. The only motivation the character ever had was Kurt..and of course RIB had Blaine doing everything in his power to ruin things with Kurt. Without motivation, a character is nothing. 

 

What's interesting to me..is that this also happened with Quinn, IMO. And when you talk about motivation..although Rachel, Finn, Kurt, Mercedes etc..(every other character, essentially) had goals and other motivations, they all shared a common one which was a need for acceptance. Quinn and Blaine already felt accepted. And it's like RIB had no idea what to do with a character like that. With Darren...I think he had created his own motivation with Blaine..which was to help guide Kurt through this need to be accepted. It was in line with his character's actions and the way he played the characters personality in seasons 2 and 3. But once there was more focus on the character and the character was suddenly different from that original person..and the character was a plot device..it was impossible to have any sort of continuation. Because even when other characters are written with OOC traits..their motivation is the same and an actor can play off of that. But Darren didn't have that. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by mercfan3

[caracas1914]

What's interesting to me..is that this also happened with Quinn, IMO. And when you talk about motivation..although Rachel, Finn, Kurt, Mercedes etc..(every other character, essentially) had goals and other motivations, they all shared a common one which was a need for acceptance. Quinn and Blaine already felt accepted. And it's like RIB had no idea what to do with a character like that.

 

Actually it's an old and tried trope that both Quinn and Blaine shared; "the golden girl (boy)" who outwardly had everything including acceptance but behind the facade lurks the same insecurities and need for acceptance.  John Hughes made a cottage industry with that type.

 

However I do think that in addition to being  hampered by bad  writing, the characters of Blaine and Quinn suffered partly because Dianna and Darren are limited as actors.

 

There were times in the narrative where Darren was suppose to convey conflicted/torn feelings or at least ambivalence in a particular scene or SL, and Darren couldn't quite pull it off.    When he meets Sebastian and is shaken to the core by the overt sexual ways of the Warbler (in contrast to the circumspect way he and Kurt have conducted themselves) , the character is  suppose to convey IMO both an attraction to that while struggling because he truly does love his BF Kurt.  Whenever Darren was  suppose to convey those conflicting emotions he seemed  to shut down.  (Contrast with Chris and Grant's scenes together, the screen practically sizzles with their energy playing against each other)  He does well with anger, puppy dog looks, OTT comic faces,  but anything complex or requiring subtle emotions/feelings  seems beyond him.

 

But yea, it didn't help that the character was horribly written, really for someone around for 5 seasons it's glaring how little we knew of Blaine as an actual character.

Edited March 16, 2015 by caracas1914

[mercfan3]

I actually thought he did an excellent job with conveying his emotions for Kurt this season..given the little he had to work with. He was very good with the "I still have feelings for him/but we're over/but maybe we're not over/but I'm dating someone else." I don't have a problem with Darren in subtle acting moments though. I think he does a good job. IMO, when talking about Darren as an actor..his biggest issue is that he can drop character and become himself. (Which surprisingly, no one calls him out on.) I think the most glaring line recently where he did that was the "not sexually" line when him and Kurt had been stuck in an elevator. ) But I think he's actually quite good at acting with his eyes. 

 

And although I agree that Quinn did have some looming insecurities (sometimes. Only sometimes.) Blaine didn't have any until season 4. When suddenly..he was the one who was more head over heals in love with Kurt. (Instead of it being the opposite..which is how it started..) and he was a needy, clingy, controlling boyfriend with OCD tendencies. (#thenewrachel) But still had no background or motivation (other than being with Kurt. )

[caracas1914]

Dianna Agron, I admit her beauty can be distracting in a good way.  She seems so ethereal but as others stated, once she starts talking it's this flat monotone voice.  Having said that, sometimes that voice works in scenes...LOL.

[fakeempress]

 

Blaine didn't have any until season 4.

Not true that Blaine didn't have any looming insecurities until 4. They did a whole episode around that in Season 3, Dance with Somebody, and they were again brought up in his talk with Kurt in Goodbye. 

Edited March 16, 2015 by fakeempress

[mercfan3]

Dianna Agron, I admit her beauty can be distracting in a good way.  She seems so ethereal but as others stated, once she starts talking it's this flat monotone voice.  Having said that, sometimes that voice works in scenes...LOL.

 

I actually loved her monotone voice for the part of Quinn. It was like ice woman..which I thought fit Quinn well. 

[caracas1914]

Yes, Dianna did fit to a TEE the flawless golden girl, cheerleader bitch whose voice was so COLD......  Can't image anyone else as S1 Quinn...

[ancslove]

It's too bad she was too young for Gone Girl. Because we know that Amazing Amy was one possible destiny for Quinn!

[fakeempress]

This isn't really related to Glee, or even TV, but I thought it's interesting. 

 

SXSW film: casting directors lift the secrets of their profession

[Advance35]

It's been a LONG time since I think Lea Michele has really been given anything to work with but I think she did an AWESOME job in 2009.  

 

Rachel was antagonistic, self-absorbed and had a certain coldness to her, just like she did in early Season 1.   She was absolutely LUDICROUS which kept her from coming off as a complete villainess but you understood why nobody else could stand her.   Her telling Kurt that the sky is filled with stars but some will ALWAYS shine brighter than others and that it's "eat or be eaten", "This...Is Show Choir."   Why did they not make S2 Rachel Berry defecting to Vocal Adrenalin and becoming an antagonist to ND.    She still had her sympathetic moments but the girl was something else.........

 

She seemed to have her armor up for so long that it wasn't possible for anyone to reach her anymore.   It seemed like Mercedes and Kurt were willing to lay down arms, but Rachel came off as keeping everyone at arms length, even though she WANTED to be friends.   It was interesting and well played.

 

I'll also admit Lea can bring out Rachel's softer side.  That was a very pretty speech she made to the other originals.

Edited March 21, 2015 by Advance35

[AndySmith]

I actually liked Heather as Brittney. Diana worked for me as Quinn too. And Amber I thought improved a lot over the show's run.

Edited March 27, 2015 by AndySmith

[camussie]

Why did they not make S2 Rachel Berry defecting to Vocal Adrenalin and becoming an antagonist to ND.

 

 

Because the underlying theme of the show was that the sum of the group of ND was stronger than its individual parts.  Rachel wanted to be part of something special not be an antagonist to it.  That line was what set up her entire arc on the show.  The line wasn't being an antagonist to something special makes you special.  

Edited March 27, 2015 by camussie

[truthaboutluv]

Perhaps unpopular but I think it is ridiculous that it is up to the actors to have to speak up and say "this isn't good for my character, this won't work" and I think it is unfair for them to get judged for it as "not being good enough and talented enough to truly get their characters." Maybe Darren was only talking about recording a song but even if he was talking about all the shitty crap the writers did with Blaine's character, I think it is unfair that he should get judged or blamed (though not surprising in the least) for not speaking up enough. 

 

Glee was and to this point, essentially the biggest thing Darren has done in his career. Maybe he didn't think it was his place or he had the power to say "I don't think this will work, I don't like this..." because it's all too quickly for someone to get a reputation of being "difficult" and "demanding". For as much as some Chris fans praise and bring up his saying to the writers that Kurt should have gone back in to rescue himself at the Prom, do you know how many who hate him who used it as proof of this overwhelming power he supposedly yielded on the show. And that was always used to blame him for every horrible thing that happened to Kurt/Blaine and Blaine's character. That's where the whole "Chris loathes Klaine and Darren and is doing everything behind the scenes to torpedo it" meme came from. 

 

But putting all that aside, what kind of shitty ass work environment is it when the actors are expected to be responsible for telling the writers "this doesn't work, it's not good..." when that is their job - to write and create the show. And when they are the ones who created these characters. And I agree with the posters above mentioning Dianna. Sure, Darren should have put his foot down about that Blaine/Karofsky shittiness and said "no, this is stupid and awful" and then Ryan would write Blaine having sex on a bed he shared with Kurt with the Facebook and Karofksy. I put nothing past that man. And I guess he could have just upped and quit which I'm sure would have made some thrilled. 

 

I have said it and I will always say it - the writers ruined Glee, period. I don't care who is a fan of which actor and how awful one thinks this actor versus another is, but in my opinion, at end of the day RIB ruined what they created and all the actors for better or worse just did the best they could with awful, shitty writing. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by truthaboutluv

[caracas1914]

Oh I don't blame Darren for being a "Yes" man; it was probably smart in order to keep a big role on the show.

Neither right nor wrong but Glee was the first professional gig ever for Chris and apparently he spoke out at least once ( " Prom Queen" ) how his character was written. I'm sure eventually it bit him in the ass.

Again though, Darren can't .stop . talking. If he is now implying that they ruined his character he wants brownie points for his insights showing he knew the writing sucked . IMO He wants it both ways.

I much prefer the approach of someone like Kevin who seemed as much someone who didn't rock the boat but who keeps his mouth shut other than to cynically say that any show that employs him is the best show on television.

Just my hunch but cast such as Matt, Dianna and Chris were eventually "punished" for daring to voice opinions on their characters. Unfortunately even the " Yes" people on the show got their characters completely thrown under the bus because the writers are that shitty. It didn't matter how the actors reacted.

[fakeempress]

 

Again though, Darren can't .stop . talking. If he is now implying that they ruined his character he wants brownie points for his insights showing he knew the writing sucked . IMO He wants it both ways.

 

Jenna owned her not saying anything, on the Ellen show. And lol at everyone immediately turning to Chris when Ellen asked them about that. 

 

 

Neither right nor wrong but Glee was the first professional gig ever for Chris and apparently he spoke out at least once ( " Prom Queen" ) how his character was written.

He's also mentioned he negotiated out of playing Frank-n-furter in the Rocky Horror episode, and of course out of Beyonce's look for the Single Ladies scene in Preggers - and this was just the fourth episode! Also known are things he wanted or preferred, and didn't get.

Edited April 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[AndySmith]

Unfortunately even the " Yes" people on the show got their characters completely thrown under the bus because the writers are that shitty. It didn't matter how the actors reacted.

 

Pretty much. It looks like you were damned if you did and damned if you didn't voice concerns. Being a "yes person" did seem to get you more airtime, though. Unless you were Jenna?

[caracas1914]

Jenna got more airtime in Season 4 but then again some of the regular actors left on the McKinley side ( Darren, Heather, Chord ) got a very noticeable bump up whereas several (Matt, Kevin and Cory) stayed the same or even got less despite being in the major narrative.

[indeed]

Chris didn't want Kurt to be a writer, either. How dare he not think that was a brilliant idea!

[Ceeg]

I'm not really blaming Darren for not speaking up. I just meant that it further confirms to me that he really didn't give his character much thought, beyond what was written on the page. Also "speaking up" doesn't mean going to the writer/director and demanding something. It just means, to me, speaking to whomever (writer, director) and talking things out and giving opinions about whether or not you believe an action is in-character, and what sort of motivations that character would have for performing such an action, and if you disagree then saying so. 

 

Basically, those quotes alone don't make me feel a certain way about Darren, they just further cement in my mind what kind of work he puts into character building.

 

Also, I have to laugh at him complaining about having to sing live. He's been on tours and on Broadway, and he's upset about singing live on Glee and not sounding as good as the recording?

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg

[dizzyizzy01]

Just my hunch but cast such as Matt, Dianna and Chris were eventually "punished" for daring to voice opinions on their characters. Unfortunately even the " Yes" people on the show got their characters completely thrown under the bus because the writers are that shitty. It didn't matter how the actors reacted.

 

I still don't really think anyone was intentionally "punished".  Because like you said, EVERYONE on this show got shitty writing, including Lea/Darren/Chord, who a lot of people seem to think are Ryan's favorites.  I think some of the people that were supposedly "difficult" got some meta jokes on his other show, but I honestly think that has more to do with the fan reaction rather than some sort of "punishment" on the actors.  I think the writers thought they were being clever and funny with the meta jokes.

Edited April 9, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[caracas1914]

Considering the reduced screentime and individual SL focus they got, yeah, I'd say say some cast got sidelined deliberately. Of course More screentime didn't stop your character from being ruined (look at Lea/Rachel or Blaine) but at least you got screentime. LOL.

[fakeempress]

 

Also, I have to laugh at him complaining about having to sing live. He's been on tours and on Broadway, and he's upset about singing live on Glee and not sounding as good as the recording?

The irony of saying this as he's preparing for another B'way run where he has to sing live and sound as good as he possibly can. 

Edited April 9, 2015 by fakeempress

[AndySmith]

Yeah, every one got shitty writing. Its just that...certain people got more screen time and more songs & solos. Definitely not the people who rocked the boat.

[jaytee1812]

I think the cast could be divided into three groups of people.

The well behaved cast members who did what they were told and didn't argue. They probably got what the writers thought was preferential treatment. (Lea, Darren, Chord, Heather, Becca).

Those who didn't do as they were told, and we're sidelined. (Matt, Chris, Naya, Diana).

Those it didn't matter because the writers either couldn't writer for them or didn't want to, so they were picked up and put down as they felt like it. (Jenna, Harry, Kevin Amber).

[Ceeg]

I think the cast could be divided into three groups of people.

The well behaved cast members who did what they were told and didn't argue. They probably got what the writers thought was preferential treatment. (Lea, Darren, Chord, Heather, Becca).

 

I'm not sure I'd include Heather on that list. And I have no idea about Becca.

 

Actually, I'm not sure we know enough about BTS stuff to really conclude one way or another about most of them. Naya, Dianna, Matt, Darren, and Chord all seem obvious, but the others, I'm not so sure.

Edited April 9, 2015 by Ceeg