S03.E16: Perverse Instantiation Part Two

[ketose]

9 minutes ago, CloudySky said:

By pulling a lever, obviously. The choice will be using The One Anti-nuclear Meltdown Device Raven manages to scrounge together to shutdown 6 plants and save thousands of grounders OR use it to shut down the one plant closest to her merry band of skaikru. It is a doozy because as the new commander she has pledged to protect all of the people. She does the unthinkable and actually lets the skypeople die but they miraculously survive because of A) Raven or B) Bellamy except for 1 person: Abby. And so Clarke's neverending cycle of pain and suffering continues. Before she can even shed a tear, she is faced with the latest problem: a supervirus that is spreading fast because of the close quarters they are stuck in. Of course Superdoctor Abby can no longer figure it out because she's dead. Also: Miller and Jackson have died sometime in the season, Raven lost an eye because of reasons, Bellamy held Clarke's hand a bunch of times as Jason tries to figure out the appropritate amount of time to wait for Clarke to jump his bones post-Lexa, Jasper tries to help Octavia through her issues because he knows, Luna dies after giving them access to her submarine (hey, here are some new parts for Raven's Convenient Device), Indra makes heart-eyes at Kane (set up for S5 cuz Abby is dead), Harper keeps ignoring that Monty is gay for Jasper and after Roan is wasted in 5 minutes despite being awesome and surviving his bulletwound, Azgeda remembers they hate Clarke and Trikru and want revenge for the Ice Queen and Ontari.

Azgeda is marching South to attack as people are getting sick and dropping like flies. Sounds familiar...We need some Rocket Fuel, STAT!

Whew, there it is. Season 4.

You shouldn't post spoilers like that, as you are obviously a writer for the show.

Edited May 21, 2016 by ketose

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

The 100 Shuts Down Its Season

In the City of Light, Clarke is given an offer she has very little trouble refusing.

[blixie]

Quote

By pulling a lever, obviously.

All serious moral quandrys are binary choices, that involve a LEVER! Hehehe.

[piequinn35]

After the hanging of Abby, now Ontari's open heart, it was just crazy, anyway good for you Octavia you had your revenge.

See you on the next season :))

[Chyna]

I wasn't much of a Lexa fan, but I was unspoiled for her return and that was a KICKASS return. That avenging-angel scene entrance was pretty damn awesome. Made me like that character way more than I did during her main arc.

[mornnoch]

I binged all of The 100 in the last weeks and it was a surprise, a very positive surprise. I liked S3 although it was a bit too brutal.

Loved the chemistry between Clarke and Lexa and between the 2 actresses. I'll watch Eliza Taylor and The 100 in S4. Sadly (as a big fan of TWD universe) I'm disappointed in FTWD and ADC's character.

[kingshearte]

Count me in on digging Lexa's return. We knew she was a badass because of what we know about the ascension process, but I feel like we've seen more of diplomatic badassery than straight-up fighting prowess. So it was pretty great to see her kicking ass and taking names like that.

And I don't remember if I said it here or not, but I definitely said to my husband that if Octavia didn't kill Pike or end up dead by the end of this season, I would consider it character assassination, so I was pretty stoked to see her go through with it.

[madam magpie]

On May 20, 2016 at 4:29 AM, Save Yourself said:

They could bring her back in that way but it depends what happens with her character on FTWD. Also her body is dead in The 100 so it would only be in The Flame that she'd live on, I don't know how they could incorporate that, it would be like continually going into a dreamland.

The only person who needs Lexa is Clarke (well, and me), so if Clarke could keep a stash of night blood around or figure out how to make it, she could hang out with Lexa whenever she wanted. (They still have Ontari's body. And isn't Luna still alive? And they have Becca's notes.) The relationship could take on a mystical quality with Lexa acting as a guide for Clarke. I'm still holding onto the theory that Clarke becomes the commander in some way and fulfills Lexa's vision of a unified Grounder world that includes Skaikru. I mean, Lexa did say, "I told you my spirit would choose wisely," and Becca called Clarke "Commander." Becca injected herself with the black blood, so I don't see why Clarke couldn't do something similar.

Pike needed to die and my girl Octavia needed to do it. RIP Lincoln.

Edited September 2, 2016 by madam magpie

[millennium]

You think they could kill Jaha just cuz?   

[kelslamu]

I thought when Jasper walked off he was still upset.  Then, hearing the laughter and talking of his friends make him smile again just a bit.  Then again, maybe not. lol  Was I the only one saying, "Pull the lever, Kronk!"?

Edited November 29, 2016 by kelslamu

[CooperTV]

7 hours ago, kelslamu said:

I thought when Jasper walked off he was still upset.  

They were planning a different ending and changed that at the last minute. They wrote Jasper killing himself in the hangar. The actors were teasing that the season finale would be heartbreaking and shocking. And then it was like "Eh, maybe not".

[purplemonkey]

Late to the party, but we just binge-watched S1-3. (I'm also spoiler-free and trailer-free for S4.) Not surprisingly, I have questions about ALIE, so forgive my addled brain. When ALIE 1 revealed to Clarke that there are power plants in meltdown, was the goal to end suffering by having all the surviving deformed and cancer-ridden get to meditate and enjoy ice cream cones in the COL? ALIE didn't have an answer for Clarke's question "then why didn't you just tell us about the power plants instead of making us torture each other??", did she?

On a shallow note, I totally think Paige Turco (Abby) got botox somewhere around season 2.

[CooperTV]

1 hour ago, purplemonkey said:

When ALIE 1 revealed to Clarke that there are power plants in meltdown, was the goal to end suffering by having all the surviving deformed and cancer-ridden get to meditate and enjoy ice cream cones in the COL?

ALIE's plan was transferring everyone's consciousness, not only the one who suffer, into the City of Light, so they'd live forever and escape the nuclear plants' meltdowns.

1 hour ago, purplemonkey said:

ALIE didn't have an answer for Clarke's question "then why didn't you just tell us about the power plants instead of making us torture each other??", did she?

This is the "perverse instantiation" part of ALIE 1.0's programming, which is "happiness for humanity by any means necessary". Plus, I think it was stated that Jaha was the one who suggested to ALIE 1.0 it should use pain and torture/torture of loved ones as persuasion technique.

[purplemonkey]

Thank you, CooperTV. I want to follow all the logic but I get distracted by the visceral. I suppose Becca realized that the setting off the nukes was evidence enough that ALIE 2.0 was going to be needed, in a bad way. Becca wouldn't be alive to see chipped-Jaha's shenanigans and the ensuing chaos. Were the drones a product of ALIE 1 or 2? Does that mean that Becca and whoever else built the drones 97 years earlier? Why go to the trouble to build all that infrastructure when you have such a shoddy product as ALIE? Just wondering. I'm hooked on this show, but not so sure I want to/have time to rewatch S1-3. I'm interested to see where Jaha goes in S4, because imaginary ark crying baby aside (giving him a slight pass on that due to hypoxia), I enjoyed him before he was chipped.

[CooperTV]

6 hours ago, purplemonkey said:

Were the drones a product of ALIE 1 or 2? Does that mean that Becca and whoever else built the drones 97 years earlier?

I think Becca created the drones. But the show has yet unexplained technology-using Grounder clans Emori sells her scrap to, so.

It's hard to say why Becca even wanted to install ALIE 2.0/"The Flame" after ALIE 1.0 disaster. Becca fell on Earth and started to implant the nuclear war survivors with the nanites so they could be enhanced with ALIE 2.0, as ALIE 2.0 is not separate AI but a small data center a person could communicate with. 

Apparently it led to creating a violent anti-technology religion and the culture that's based on the absolute monarchy and blood vengeance as the basic law concept.

[piequinn35]

On 5/21/2016 at 2:29 PM, CloudySky said:

By pulling a lever, obviously. The choice will be using The One Anti-nuclear Meltdown Device Raven manages to scrounge together to shutdown 6 plants and save thousands of grounders OR use it to shut down the one plant closest to her merry band of skaikru. It is a doozy because as the new commander she has pledged to protect all of the people. She does the unthinkable and actually lets the skypeople die but they miraculously survive because of A) Raven or B) Bellamy except for 1 person: Abby. And so Clarke's neverending cycle of pain and suffering continues. Before she can even shed a tear, she is faced with the latest problem: a supervirus that is spreading fast because of the close quarters they are stuck in. Of course Superdoctor Abby can no longer figure it out because she's dead. Also: Miller and Jackson have died sometime in the season, Raven lost an eye because of reasons, Bellamy held Clarke's hand a bunch of times as Jason tries to figure out the appropritate amount of time to wait for Clarke to jump his bones post-Lexa, Jasper tries to help Octavia through her issues because he knows, Luna dies after giving them access to her submarine (hey, here are some new parts for Raven's Convenient Device), Indra makes heart-eyes at Kane (set up for S5 cuz Abby is dead), Harper keeps ignoring that Monty is gay for Jasper and after Roan is wasted in 5 minutes despite being awesome and surviving his bulletwound, Azgeda remembers they hate Clarke and Trikru and want revenge for the Ice Queen and Ontari.

Azgeda is marching South to attack as people are getting sick and dropping like flies. Sounds familiar...We need some Rocket Fuel, STAT!

Whew, there it is. Season 4.

Hi Cloudsky, what happened to my boy Murphy? if you don't want other people to know, you can send me a pm! :) :) :)

[CooperTV]

34 minutes ago, doram said:

Hubris, basically. 

I find it interesting how Becca's story is heavily paralleled and contrasted with all The 100 leaders, including Jaha, Cage, Pike, Kane, Lexa, etc, and yet the show is still playing this game that any of the "older" ways of ruling people ("We sacrificed a few to save the many", "Victory stands on the back of sacrifice [of other people]", etc) has validity. Season 4 seems to be all about merry-go-round of Clarke falling under another sway of that mindset full of hubris, this time Jaha's.

[Lady Calypso]

Wow. So....season 4 is going to be all about finding a way to live through the end of the world again. Or to find that 4% where they can live. I assume ALIE is telling the truth in some capacity. 

It was awesome seeing Lexa again. I really could have done with more Lexa/Clarke. Damn, though, if I don't miss her around. I'm not sad about Ontari dying, and Murphy got to help with the cause! I'm also glad he gets his girlfriend back.

I also assume with Octavia killing Pike (very needed, by the way; just because he teamed up and did some good here, it didn't mean that he'd continue on that path, especially since he still believed he did the right thing), it'll turn Octavia quite dark and rogue. I don't think her actions will make her feel better, either. Oh well; Indra got her hits in and Octavia got to deliver the final blow. And she's still pissed at Bellamy! Progress!

I still don't like Bellamy; Kane needed to strangle him more. But at least they're all back to normal, and I'm guessing Kane/Abby will get to figure their shit out together. I get the feeling that Bellamy's actions will be handwaved still next season with everyone but Octavia, and he'll get his redemption. Which...god no.

Well, I guess I'm moving on to season 4. I'm not really sure why, but I am. 

[Taryn74]

Okay here's where I admit my dirty little secret........I empathize with Pike.  Objectively, I know what he did was wrong, but only because we've had three seasons to get to know the Grounders and know that they aren't all like Ice Nation.  (Also, IMO the show never did even really show us that Ice Nation was as completely ruthless and cruel as they said, but story wise they were consistently presented that way, so we have to accept that as canon.)  But all Pike and Farm Crew knew of the Grounders, until they made it to Arkadia, was Ice Nation.  Ice Nation, to Pike, represented all of the Grounders because that's all he had experience with.  And Ice Nation murdered men, women, and children in front of their eyes.  As a leader, exactly what was Pike supposed to do?

Sure we can argue that once Pike made it to Arkadia he should have listened to the other leaders who tried to tell him not all of the Grounders were the same, that some of the clans were even their allies, but based on the evidence, why exactly would he believe that?  Lexa had betrayed them once already and left them to die in Mt Weather.  Bellamy trusted Echo and she betrayed them and started a war.  If I were in Pike's shoes I honestly don't know that I would have trusted that the 300 Grounder army was there for my protection either.

[ketose]

Even more than Grounder good intentions, the fact is that fighting them is hard when you have superior technology, but not enough of it to end their fight against you. The 100 were constantly finding ways to shoot and blow up grounders until they ran out of rocket fuel and bullets. The truce over Mt. Weather was the beginning of Arkadia aligning with Grounders.

Mostly, Pike had bad luck. For example, if he had gotten Mt. Weather, Pike would have taken it over and started shooting out toxic gas as soon as possible. Given the fact that he came around when Alie was trying to create a zombie army, he was focused on the wrong enemy.

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

Okay here's where I admit my dirty little secret........I empathize with Pike.  Objectively, I know what he did was wrong, but only because we've had three seasons to get to know the Grounders and know that they aren't all like Ice Nation.  (Also, IMO the show never did even really show us that Ice Nation was as completely ruthless and cruel as they said, but story wise they were consistently presented that way, so we have to accept that as canon.)  But all Pike and Farm Crew knew of the Grounders, until they made it to Arkadia, was Ice Nation.  Ice Nation, to Pike, represented all of the Grounders because that's all he had experience with.  And Ice Nation murdered men, women, and children in front of their eyes.  As a leader, exactly what was Pike supposed to do?

Sure we can argue that once Pike made it to Arkadia he should have listened to the other leaders who tried to tell him not all of the Grounders were the same, that some of the clans were even their allies, but based on the evidence, why exactly would he believe that?  Lexa had betrayed them once already and left them to die in Mt Weather.  Bellamy trusted Echo and she betrayed them and started a war.  If I were in Pike's shoes I honestly don't know that I would have trusted that the 300 Grounder army was there for my protection either.

I wanted to empathize with Pike; I think it's just that they wrote him as so damn shady but also reluctant to listen to others that made it the problem. I thought throughout the whole season that there was more to his Grounder story (to be fair, I should have trusted him at his word because he had 60+ witnesses to attest to the story). But none of these groups are making the right or fair choices. They all really suck at the end of it all. They've all killed people for what they thought was the greater good. Pike thought he was doing the same, as did his loyal followers. But I do think his major problem that didn't endear me to him was his plan of isolating his people, a group of probably only 200 or so. Pike didn't realize that they can't survive without allies. They can't just isolate themselves and kill everyone who's not a part of Arkadia. At least, that's what it seemed like his plan was. 

So, like every character, I get what their intent was. It was still the wrong way to handle things. And Pike never got a chance to redeem himself because Octavia killed him. Maybe he could have been redeemed; he did come around to an extent by the end, but I think the producers knew that it was because the actor wouldn't be returning for the fourth season. Eh; in a show fully of shitty characters who are morally grey at best, I'm ok with one less asshole. Now, if they could only get rid of mopey Jasper and Cult Leader Jaha. 

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

So, like every character, I get what their intent was. It was still the wrong way to handle things.

Yeah, I can agree with you there for sure.

I think I love this show so much because it doesn't back away from such morally gray situations and decisions, but at the same time it doesn't glorify them.