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On ‎4‎/‎4‎/‎2014 at 10:55 PM, beadgirl said:

 

I think I read somewhere that JMS thought the order of the questions asked (Who are you, What do you want, Why are you here) was critical, and answering the Shadows' question first without knowing who you are would lead to disaster.  It implies that the Shadows are a little more wrong than the Vorlons.

I realize I'm talking back in time. Hi!

The shadows are then only wrong if they come first! then.

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Thought I'd drop in after watching In The Beginning. It's been awhile. Seeing it now gives me a whole new sympathy for Dukat. Such an honorable person, and he was totally used by the Vorlons as a means to an end. 

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I never watched all of S! and S5 of this show and didn't bother buying those DVDs.  I've watched S2-S4 multiple times.

So now that the whole series is available on Amazon Prime, I'm going to finally watch all of season 1. 

I'm about halfway through S1 now and struggling with it.

Early episodes...the dialogue was awful.  It was like they were trying to create the human characters through dialogue and they were doing stuff like  Ivanova is Russian and has to speak words out of order in the most awkward way possible to get that across.  And every single human character is so stiff initially, especially in groups.  Knowing that later seasons didn't feel this way and Londo, Vir, and G'Kar never came across this way its feeling like this was the show's way of conveying that they are members of the human military.  But it comes across as actors taking turns to say their lines with no actual connection to each other or the material.   Its uncomfortable to watch.   I think this is why I could never get into season 1.

It was cool at the beginning to catch hints of what was to come.  And counting the times they say the word "shadow" should be a drinking game.

But I've been on a string of stand alone episodes for a while and I definitely liked the show better when it got more into the arcs in later seasons.  Rewatch has convinced me that Sinclair was supposed to be around for the whole show if for no other reason than I'm noticing how many of Sinclair's plots they had Sheridan repeat to have a similar well of experiences to draw on and relationship building to set up the rest of the series. 

Ah, finally.  Mr Morden has arrived.  And Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Sinclair are having a discussion of raiders that has them relaxed in each others presence.  And Londo and G'Kar fighting. " Signs and Portents", perhaps this is where it starts getting good.

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I think everyone agrees that Signs and Portents is really where the show takes off. 

Given what we know now with the actor, I think there's a lot of Sinclair we just missed out on. 

I would suggest seeking out the original treatment of the show which will give more context. 

I do think the first season did well with Sinclair, Garabaldi, and Ivanova, with Londo as a major supporting character. 

If Prof Crash is still around, you'll get much more in depth analysis. 

Edited by ganesh

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16 hours ago, ganesh said:

Given what we know now with the actor, I think there's a lot of Sinclair we just missed out on. 

Yeah, I wonder what the show would have been like if Sinclair had stayed, and also if Talia had stayed on as well.  I do have to admit, I did not really get attached to the Sinclair. Whatever happened to Catherine Sakai?

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Had he stayed the story would have been much the same except they would have stolen B4 at the end of the series and he would have gone back. Which I hoped still included Ivanova's hilarious incredulity - You mean the people who stole B4 is US?!!

Remember when there was the S1 episode and they made a big deal that whomever was in command of B5 was the ranking military officer? That's because Sinclair was going to run the shadow war and Sheridan was going to be the flagship captain. 

I don't know if it's still out there, but there's the treatment of what the original story was going to be. 

Sakai went back in time. "Valen" left a message for Marcus that he found her. 

You should read To Dream in the City of Sorrows and the three trilogies. They're considered canon. Sorrows is a huge Sinclair story after he leaves B5. It really fills in why Marcus was so loyal to him. 

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16 hours ago, ganesh said:

Sakai went back in time. "Valen" left a message for Marcus that he found her. 

 

I'm glad they stayed together. i'd heard about that but didn't know if it was the actual story or fan hoping.

 

I've never found any of the books, unless I can hunt them down via interlibrary loan I'm not sure if I'll be able to read them. I was always more interested in the Psi-Corps and Centauri Prime.

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I'm following along on a "binge"-watch (slash rewatch for some followers) project of Babylon 5 that just started up.  It's been a while since I saw the series myself, so it's a major refresher.  We're only through The Gathering (the TNT re-edited version) and the first two episodes. so far  And I'm surprised at how much of the deep lore is in just those 3 stories.  Details that I remembered from the original airing, but not that they were all front-loaded like this.

There's the hole in Sinclair's mind (and the whole Earth-Minbari war setup) and Lyta and Dr. Kyle's "encounters" with Kosh in the movie.  Not to mention Kosh's greeting to who he thought was Sinclair in the re-edited version. 

The first proper episode has the first mention of Londo's dream of his and G'Kar's eventual deaths with their hands around each other's throat.  There's also a scene in Kosh's quarters that start with an empty encounter suit and a lot of bright light behind a privacy screen.  Ivanova's mother and that family tragedy is also first brought up in this one.  And in the background on ISN, there's the re-election of the weak-chinned Earth President Santiago and his (yet unnamed) multi-chinned Vice President...

And, while the Grey Council is mentioned in the movie, in the second episode, Soul Hunter, we get the reveal that Delenn is one of them. There's also the first mention of the great Minbari figure Dukhat.

So many seeds in so little time.  And there's so much more to come...

Edited by SVNBob

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Yeah, there is a ton of info in Season One that you catch on the second watch of the series. Do yourself a favor and do not take a drink when Delenn references Sinclair's future in some cryptic manner, you will be drunk faster then you think. You miss the small details in the first viewing only because you don't know to look for them. It is amazing what you pick up on with each rewatch.

And that TNT remade Pilot was crazy, I was hyperventilating at the Kosh/Sinclair scene. I was so certain it would ruin everything for a new viewer and yet, none of my friends caught it.

On ‎7‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 11:24 PM, ParadoxLost said:

I never watched all of S! and S5 of this show and didn't bother buying those DVDs.  I've watched S2-S4 multiple times.

So now that the whole series is available on Amazon Prime, I'm going to finally watch all of season 1. 

I'm about halfway through S1 now and struggling with it.

Early episodes...the dialogue was awful.  It was like they were trying to create the human characters through dialogue and they were doing stuff like  Ivanova is Russian and has to speak words out of order in the most awkward way possible to get that across.  And every single human character is so stiff initially, especially in groups.  Knowing that later seasons didn't feel this way and Londo, Vir, and G'Kar never came across this way its feeling like this was the show's way of conveying that they are members of the human military.  But it comes across as actors taking turns to say their lines with no actual connection to each other or the material.   Its uncomfortable to watch.   I think this is why I could never get into season 1.

It was cool at the beginning to catch hints of what was to come.  And counting the times they say the word "shadow" should be a drinking game.

But I've been on a string of stand alone episodes for a while and I definitely liked the show better when it got more into the arcs in later seasons.  Rewatch has convinced me that Sinclair was supposed to be around for the whole show if for no other reason than I'm noticing how many of Sinclair's plots they had Sheridan repeat to have a similar well of experiences to draw on and relationship building to set up the rest of the series. 

Ah, finally.  Mr Morden has arrived.  And Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Sinclair are having a discussion of raiders that has them relaxed in each others presence.  And Londo and G'Kar fighting. " Signs and Portents", perhaps this is where it starts getting good.

Totally missed this. I was on vacation with crappy internet and then, well, who knows.

The early episodes are, Production wise, awful. The Human characters were never the shows strong point. The stars of the show are Delenn, G'Kar, Londo and the like. I love the depth of Garibaldi, Ivanova and Sinclair but the acting was rarely anything above average. I do think that some of that woodness fits the characters and their initial interactions.

Sinclair has been targeted since the end of the Earth/Minbari War to be removed from Earth Force. The Powers That Be have been desperately trying to separate him from the Military. He has been given crap assignments, Laurel establishes this in the Pilot episode, and moved from place to place so frequently that he has every reason to not trust anyone. He has just lost his chosen First Office, Laurel, and has been assigned someone he does not know, and hence, trust. Sinclair only has his job because people expect it to fail and because the Minbari insisted on Sinclair. Neither reason gives Earth Force or Earth Gov the desire to provide any type of real support.

The only person that Sinclair is somewhat comfortable with is Garibaldi and Garibaldi is not really ready to be there. We know from the show that Garibaldi is a recently recovered Alcoholic with trust issues, That is it. He is on B5 only because Sinclair wanted him there. What we learn from the comic books (and yes I have all the comic books), Garibaldi barely knows Sinclair. The two met when Garibaldi was hired to help Sinclair with a mission on Mars that goes really, really wrong. So the Garibaldi/Sinclair relationship is actually reasonably new. The pressure on Garibaldi is huge and he is not a naturally trusting person.

Ivanova is hiding a major secret and has been added to the Command Staff on a station that everyone expects to fail and with no chance of promotion while she is there. She has no chance of rising in rank when her Senior Officer has pretty much topped out. Not exactly a plum assignment. She walks into a situation where the Commander and Security Chief have an existing relationship and she is simply not trusted.

As the season goes on, you can see the walls start to come down and the Command Staff becomes far more comfortable with each other. The only character that still is stiff is Sinclair and that has as more to do with the fact that O'Hare was mentally ill and did not want to screw over the rest of the cast by stopping production while he received treatment. It is not a secret that Jerry and Michael never clicked on a personal level and Jerry was very happy to work with Bruce.

So yeah, the human characters were not great in season one, well actually ever, but I think it actually fits the show.

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8 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Not to mention Kosh's greeting to who he thought was Sinclair in the re-edited version. 

No, Kosh new it was the fake. Valen told him what was going to happen and he had to let it play out. So it was more like "Oh. 'Entil-zha Valen.' Here is where I put my 'hand' out so you can poison me." Why would a Vorlon have a "hand?"

The humans may not have been great, but the station would have fallen apart otherwise or got blown up by the Centauri. There's no way any one other than humans would have recruited the Narn to defend the station. 

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37 minutes ago, ganesh said:

No, Kosh new it was the fake. Valen told him what was going to happen and he had to let it play out. So it was more like "Oh. 'Entil-zha Valen.' Here is where I put my 'hand' out so you can poison me." Why would a Vorlon have a "hand?"

The humans may not have been great, but the station would have fallen apart otherwise or got blown up by the Centauri. There's no way any one other than humans would have recruited the Narn to defend the station. 

I have no idea where that theory is coming from. This is the first time I have encountered it.

Only the Grey Council and maybe some of the acolytes had the slightest indication that Valen might somehow tied to Sinclair, and not everyone on the Grey Council believed that. The Religious Caste thought that Valen's soul had found it's way to Sinclair and that other Minbari souls had made their way to other humans. The Warrior Caste members of the Grey Council did not believe that there was a soul transfer but seemingly lost the vote in the Grey Council and hence ordered the halt to the Earth/Minbari war. God knows Du'Khat did not think much of the soul transference theory after he learned about it. So to assume that a member of the Wind Swords knows that Sinclair is Valen is a bit out there.

There is no reason for Kosh to think that the assassin would have the slightest clue that Sinclair had any connection to Valen, so there would be no reason for Kosh to address the fake, if he knew it was a fake, with that greeting. The Vorlons, have been advising the Minbari and would be aware that the subject of soul transference is a tightly held secret. And even if Kosh thought that the assassin might know about the connection, what logic is there in confirming that there is a connection? A connection which would not be good to make public for the Minbari. "Hey our greatest leader was really a human who transformed to look like a Minbari, changed our entire system of government, and set us on a different historical path."

I don't think that JMS ever covers how Kosh comes to know that Sinclair and Valen are the same person. I am assuming that the Vorlons recognize that the triluminary is Vorlon tech and that B4 is not any type of Minbari or Vorlon technology. We do know that somehow Kosh and the Vorlons know that Sinclair = Valen and that Sinclair is very important to their future plans. Why the heck would Kosh address Sinclair as Valen to a would be assassin who is likely to survive the assassination attempt? Why would Kosh want to share/confirm that information?

The only explanation that I have seen on the Entil'Zha Valen line was that Kosh was temporarily overwhelmed with seeing a friend who he had not seen in a 1,000 years and forgot himself.

As for the hand being exposed, JMS said this was explained in the War Prayer. http://www.midwinter.com/lurk/countries/us/synops/007.html

"After his discussion with Kosh, Sinclair returns to the bridge. There, he finds Ivanova and begins talking with her. He asks her if she was familiar with the incident that occurred right after Kosh arrived on Babylon 5. She replied that she received only a cursory briefing. He explains what happened: specifically, he explains that the assassination attempt against Kosh was attempted with poison, administered through the hand. He tells her that he finally figured something out that had been bothering him for a while: "Kosh wears an encounter suit to protect him from our atmosphere," he says, "so how did the poison get into his system? His hand should have been completely covered."

Ivanova explains that the Vorlons are very secretive, and that, perhaps, the encounter suit may be more useful as a camouflage than as a necessary protection from the environment.

Sinclair understands, but expresses his curiosity at the reassignment of the only human who has seen a Vorlon--Dr. Benjamin Kyle. Kyle was brought back to Earth shortly after the incident in order to work directly with the president. (Sinclair tells Ivanova that Kyle, who was bound by the standard doctor's oath of confidentiality, never told Sinclair what he saw). Further, explains Sinclair, the only member of the Psi Corps to have scanned a Vorlon--Lyta Alexander--was also reassigned. [See also "The Gathering."]"

I can only assume that JMS is saying that Ivanova's explanation is accurate. We later see Vorlons outside their encounter suits and the reality is, they use the suits to insure that the various younger races don't see images of their Gods moving about Babylon 5 or wherever else you find Vorlons.

Piecing together JMS's kind of cryptic remarks on the subject, Kosh really did just temporarily forget himself when he saw a person who he greatly admired after 1,000 years and addressed Sinclair by the title Kosh had used for 100 years, Entil'Zha Valen and exposed himself temporary.

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24 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't think that JMS ever covers how Kosh comes to know that Sinclair and Valen are the same person.

Kosh was one of the Vorlon Sinclair called when he took B4 into the past and turned into Valen. I just don't buy that Sinclair/Valen wouldn't have told Kosh. 

26 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

"Kosh wears an encounter suit to protect him from our atmosphere," he says, "so how did the poison get into his system? His hand should have been completely covered."

You're saying it yourself. Kosh deliberately took his "hand" out. 

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19 minutes ago, ganesh said:

You're saying it yourself. Kosh deliberately took his "hand" out. 

No, that was a quote from the episode. Sinclair asks that and "Ivanova explains that the Vorlons are very secretive, and that, perhaps, the encounter suit may be more useful as a camouflage than as a necessary protection from the environment." The link takes you to the transcript for the episode which lays out the entire conversation. We see in the Season 2 finale that a Vorlon outside its suit is seen as a deity by all those present. That is why they wear the encounter suit. Not because Vorlons require it for any type of protection. So the "hand" that we see is how the Minbari was viewing the Vorlon, the physical manifestation of the Minbari deity, hence the hand. It was still a physical manifestation of the Vorlon and where it was that the assassin planted the poison.

22 minutes ago, ganesh said:

Kosh was one of the Vorlon Sinclair called when he took B4 into the past and turned into Valen. I just don't buy that Sinclair/Valen wouldn't have told Kosh. 

Yup. And I am sure that the Vorlons took about 30 seconds to figure out that Sinclair was not a Minbari and that the triluminary was Vorlon technology. JMS never addresses if Sinclair told Kosh who he was in the future or if Kosh pieces it together during the Earth Minbari war when Sinclair is captured. Or Zathras might have told the Vorlons. It is one of the smaller missing details. All that matters is that Kosh knows when he arrives on B5. I suspect that Kosh is more removed from Sinclair then he is Sheridan precisely because Kosh is worried about giving away too much information to Sinclair.

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Comet TV just picked up Babylon 5 and is currently airing it at 9pm ET and noon ET the next day. It's available on some broadcast stations, but it also steams live (at least in the US) on comettv.com.

The main drawback for me is that they're showing it in widescreen format, and the top and bottom of the original picture is cut off.

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I think everything they show is in widescreen format.

They filmed it that way originally but didn't render the CGI in widescreen to save money on buying a monitor.  Then for inexplicable reasons, knowing the quality would be worse because they didn't to the CGI widescreen, they used the widescreen as a selling feature of the DVDs.  Then there was a fire and rats that destroyed some of the original tapes.  It would cost them money to put the whole thing into standard again to get the CGI to match up and improve the quality, so they give all the syndication and streaming services (last I heard) the widescreen version.

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I just can't get past that Kosh taking his hand out wasn't deliberate and he knew how everything was going to play out. Given how the books showed him to be so sympathetic to the humans to the point where the rest of the Vorlon tooled on him, and the fact that Sinclair somehow literally stole an entire space station back in time 1000 years, Kosh had to arrive at the conclusion that the humans and B5 were key to defeating the Shadows.

Sinclair would have known enough about Sheridan to tell Kosh to at least check him out. Sinclair wouldn't know *how* the Shadows would be defeated, but there's no way a Vorlon would literally sacrifice for a mere human if he wasn't convinced they were the key to defeating them. Delenn even said, when Sheridan jumped out of the transport to, that he had to save Sheridan because he 'knew how important he was.' Delenn may have recognized in real time just getting to know Sheridan that he would be a good leader in the fight, but Kosh had to have future knowledge from Sinclair as Valen to take as many risks as he did. 

Kosh may have distanced himself from 'Sinclair', but only because he had that foreknowledge imo.

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Realistically speaking, we only saw two Vorlons for most of the series, Kosh and Ulkesh. They clearly represented different factions in the Vorlons, one being less iron fisted and one more militant. When it gets down to it, we only really saw two factions of the Minbari, those who believed in soul migration and those who didn't. We saw a lot of black and white, represented by one or two characters, and not much of the nuances. While the books dived into those grey areas a bit more, at least the Techno Mage series spent a little time on the Vorlons or at least hinted at the plotics at play, no one really delved into political factions on Vorlon.

Kosh was clearly someone who valued a bit more guidance and gentle touch while Ulkesh was more iron fisted make them do what we want. Ulkesh fits the larger narrative, in the sense that the Vorlons represented Control and the Shadows Chaos and they were duking it out using the younger races as pawns. Kosh fits the overall story arc of the Ambassadors to B5, all of the major alliance Ambassadors were someone on the fringe (Londo and Sinclair) or respected and expected to take charge of the council (Delenn and G'Kar). Kosh appears to be on the fringe, if Ulkesh is meant to represent the posture of the Vorlons dealing with the war.

We know very little of what happened to Sinclair when he went back in time. We know little to nothing from the show. The little we know comes from the book To Dream in the City of Sorrows and the comic book mini series. In the book all we get is that he left a note that he found Catherine. We  know nothing else. We don't know if the two of them had kids, making the start of the Human/Minbari hybrids or if the hybrids came from Valen having kids with a Minbari wife. All we know is that Valen had kids (because his DNA propagates, all the Humans who had Minbari Souls are descendants of Valen.) From the comics we get that Valen lived 100 years or so past when Sinclair went back in time. He almost left a message for Delenn to tell her about the war and try and stop the Minbari/Human war. He stops because Zathras reminds him that was an awful idea but Delenn's name is passed on to one of the races that worked with the Minbari.

I am not sure that Sinclair would have told Kosh about the future in great detail but he would have had to tell Kosh something. The Vorlon's know that the B4 is not Mnbari. They would recognize the Vorlon tech to make the triluminary. If the Vorlons were telepathic, they might have been able to read Sinclair's mind and get the info they needed. Or they might have had allies that were telepathic that they had read his mind.

Whatever it is that they knew, there are more then enough hints that the Vorlons were not so sure what the path forward was when B5 came into being. God knows that Ulkesh did nothing to make Sinclair want to work with the Vorlons when they were together on Minbari. Sinclair was consistently battling Ulkesh with the Minbari leader acting as an intermediary. If the Vorlons were so sure that Sinclair was the key to defeating the Shadows, I would expect that Ulkesh would have known to play nice with Sinclair.

As for Sheridan, I would have preferred that Kosh let Sheridan fall to his death. In fact, I was screaming at my TV set "Let him fall." That aside, I think it was more that Kosh trusted Delenn then had advanced knowledge regarding Sheridan. To Dream in the City of Sorrows, or one of the comic book mini series, makes it clear that Sinclair had little knowledge of who Sheridan really was. They had a brief encounter at the Academy, Sinclair dumped a meal on Sheridan during Sinclair's first year and Sheridan's last, and they had a brief encounter during the Mars riots. Sinclair had no clue what role that Sheridan would play in the Shadow War, other then Sheridan was a leader who Delenn trusted, and would not have been able to say "Sheridan will save the future."

The reality is that Delenn is the key factor when it comes to Sinclair and Sheridan. It is her endorsement that puts both of them in their respective roles. Delenn is the one who announces that Sinclair is carrying Valen's soul which leads to the Minbari insisting on Sinclair commanding B5. Delenn, who was tagged to replace Dukhat, was the one who worked with Kosh and the Vorlons during and after the Earth/Minbari war. And it was Delenn who backed Sheridan when he came to the station.

I can't find the quote but I remember reading that JMS once said that Kosh showed himself to Sinclair because he greatly respected Sinclair and saw him as a friend and in the moment, forgot that Sinclair would not know Kosh or their history. The question still remains what the assassin's plan was given that the Vorlons were normally in their encounter suit and there was no reason the expect that Kosh would expose himself.

I still say it would be awesome to have a series based on Valen but that will probably never happen.

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On 10/2/2018 at 9:07 PM, ketose said:

Comet TV just picked up Babylon 5 and is currently airing it at 9pm ET and noon ET the next day. It's available on some broadcast stations, but it also steams live (at least in the US) on comettv.com.

The main drawback for me is that they're showing it in widescreen format, and the top and bottom of the original picture is cut off.

I was just about to mention that! I haven't watched B5 in decades, so it's fun to rewatch and remember. 

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Signs and Portents

Pivotal ep, we meet Mr Morden for the first time, we see why the Centuri were picked by the Shadows as their puppets, some cool space battles and the end of the raiders who were pretty stupid as an enemy. And our first Shadow ship! Plus the famous bathroom in space scene. 

Edited by Joe Hellandback
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TKO

So Ivanova is a female, Russian, Jewess, Lesbian? Wow, if only she was black and handicapped as well, she'd tick every box! What a walking cliché her Rabbi is, I look forward to a Muslim cleric ever being represented on TV in such a positive fashion. Interesting that they refer to the trouble in Russia, at the time of broadcast it was in the mess following the end of the Cold War, now things would be very different. The Garabaldi fight storyline is okay but you wonder that B5 would allow a martial art competition which killed 5 beings in less than a year? Pretty low key and emotional character driven ep this week after all the excitement (and expense) of the last ep.  

On ‎17‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 2:42 AM, DeeJayKay said:

I've been semi-binge watching, about a season a month, then my son grabs the DVDs so he can watch, and calls me up to say that he'd forgotten how GOOD it was.  I had missed bits and pieces of it when it originally aired, so that's rather interesting.

 

Just finished "The Corp is mother, the Corp is father"< one of those I had not seen before.  But I did see where it was going....

Sky One is repeating the series here in the UK so I can watch one a day which is a real treat, we all seem to be on a 90s kick at the moment, maybe they'll do a B5 reboot? 

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11 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

So Ivanova is a female, Russian, Jewess, Lesbian? Wow, if only she was black and handicapped as well,

Black, no.  But she does become temporarily handicapped at the start of season 2...

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23 minutes ago, SVNBob said:

Black, no.  But she does become temporarily handicapped at the start of season 2...

One thing I would add, Claudia Christian was in a very cheap sci-fi movie called 'Arena' which mimics the fight club storyline quite vividly. 

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0101366/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_119

I find it great that all the dumb films of my youth are now available for free online. 

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1 hour ago, ganesh said:

The whole point of TKO was for the line "watch your back Michael." 

We can say that but JMS says it is more to flush out Ivanova. 

a JMS quote from Lurker's Guide: "Channel 4 in the UK didn't show "TKO" during the initial run TKO's main importance is to the Ivanova arc, as she finally comes to terms with her father's death. Do I have an opinion on C4's decision not to show TKO? Absolutely."

I actually like the attempts that they made to provide real depth to the characters. I like that Sinclair was very much there for Ivanova.

But the only real take away for me was the "watch your back Michael." line

Also from Lurkers: "As I've noted before, over the long haul, as you watch episodes, you will see things you didn't see before. Sometimes they're clues, and sometimes they're comments which now read a different way than they did the first time you saw them. There's been a number of the latter very subtly sprinkled through the episodes aired so far...lines that everyone jumped on as meaning one thing, but which will mean something else, and lines which nobody thought much of the first time out...but which will elicit a wince of irony later on.

There's a corker in "TKO," but at the moment, it's absolutely invisible. It's not a clue, it's not necessary for the story, it's just one of those things that, after you've seen all the rest of this season's episodes, you will go "Ouch," when you see it next."

 

Clearly referencing the "watch your back line". I love how JMS seeded the show with those little moments that you totally miss only to have them come back to haunt you later.

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21 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

We can say that but JMS says it is more to flush out Ivanova. 

a JMS quote from Lurker's Guide: "Channel 4 in the UK didn't show "TKO" during the initial run TKO's main importance is to the Ivanova arc, as she finally comes to terms with her father's death. Do I have an opinion on C4's decision not to show TKO? Absolutely."

I actually like the attempts that they made to provide real depth to the characters. I like that Sinclair was very much there for Ivanova.

But the only real take away for me was the "watch your back Michael." line

Also from Lurkers: "As I've noted before, over the long haul, as you watch episodes, you will see things you didn't see before. Sometimes they're clues, and sometimes they're comments which now read a different way than they did the first time you saw them. There's been a number of the latter very subtly sprinkled through the episodes aired so far...lines that everyone jumped on as meaning one thing, but which will mean something else, and lines which nobody thought much of the first time out...but which will elicit a wince of irony later on.

There's a corker in "TKO," but at the moment, it's absolutely invisible. It's not a clue, it's not necessary for the story, it's just one of those things that, after you've seen all the rest of this season's episodes, you will go "Ouch," when you see it next."

 

Clearly referencing the "watch your back line". I love how JMS seeded the show with those little moments that you totally miss only to have them come back to haunt you later.

Yes, we very much see more of Ivanova here, the seeds of the girl we come to love. 

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Grail

Like the alien abduction court case which was of course all the rage at the time with the X-files. Delenn says the Minbari have 2 castes, I thought it was 3? Vir back and we see the difference between him and Londo in terms of money. But how come David Warner (magnificent as ever) never asks G'Kar? Ivanova's 'Boom tomorrow' is funny AND prescient, nice concept about Jinxo, like the ravens with the Tower of London or apes at Gibraltar. Beyond that the fake Kosh storyline is simply too dumb for words. 

On ‎20‎/‎04‎/‎2014 at 7:18 PM, ganesh said:

I think I've watched the series about 5 maybe 6 times. When it was airing every night on SciFi M-Th I would leave it on when preparing dinner etc. I have yet to see a show, overall, story-wise that still holds up as well as this 2 decades on. 

Just yesterday, the news was talking about the latest payload to go up to the space station and they'll be growing their own food now. I can't help but think of Sinclair's monologue to the news anchor about why we have to go into space. 

With the Boston Marathon tomorrow, I was thinking about how Sheridan had to deal with the guy who was bombing on the station and how they talked about terrorism. Even more relevant in our world now than it was then. 

Just off the top of my head, thinking about how we're worried about the NSA spying on us and collecting all this data: there's the psy-corps. 

All sci-fi is actually about here and now, Bab5 was based in the odd period when the Cold War was over and the world was having to adjust to momentous upheavals. Nowadays of course you'd get some Elon Mush character trying to fund risky new exploratory ventures. 

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On 11/15/2018 at 2:08 PM, ProfCrash said:

We can say that but JMS says it is more to flush out Ivanova. 

a JMS quote from Lurker's Guide: "Channel 4 in the UK didn't show "TKO" during the initial run TKO's main importance is to the Ivanova arc, as she finally comes to terms with her father's death. Do I have an opinion on C4's decision not to show TKO? Absolutely."

 

I remember that they showed it later on during some sci-fi special evening.  It was the first episode I'd seen of Babylon 5 (was away at University while S1 aired and I didn't have Channel 4).   It didn't exactly make me want to watch the rest of the series, and only for Bruce Boxleitner being in S2, I probably wouldn't have started watching when I did get access to Channel 4. 

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On ‎03‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 3:36 AM, ganesh said:

I just can't get past that Kosh taking his hand out wasn't deliberate and he knew how everything was going to play out. Given how the books showed him to be so sympathetic to the humans to the point where the rest of the Vorlon tooled on him, and the fact that Sinclair somehow literally stole an entire space station back in time 1000 years, Kosh had to arrive at the conclusion that the humans and B5 were key to defeating the Shadows.

Sinclair would have known enough about Sheridan to tell Kosh to at least check him out. Sinclair wouldn't know *how* the Shadows would be defeated, but there's no way a Vorlon would literally sacrifice for a mere human if he wasn't convinced they were the key to defeating them. Delenn even said, when Sheridan jumped out of the transport to, that he had to save Sheridan because he 'knew how important he was.' Delenn may have recognized in real time just getting to know Sheridan that he would be a good leader in the fight, but Kosh had to have future knowledge from Sinclair as Valen to take as many risks as he did. 

Kosh may have distanced himself from 'Sinclair', but only because he had that foreknowledge imo.

I'll go for that, Kosh had an idea of what the future would hold, the other Vorlorns didn't have that because they were still consumed with their endless war with the Shadows rather than letting us develop.

On ‎17‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 10:09 PM, Ceindreadh said:

I remember that they showed it later on during some sci-fi special evening.  It was the first episode I'd seen of Babylon 5 (was away at University while S1 aired and I didn't have Channel 4).   It didn't exactly make me want to watch the rest of the series, and only for Bruce Boxleitner being in S2, I probably wouldn't have started watching when I did get access to Channel 4. 

I liked Bruce, avid fan of Scarecrow and Mrs King and Bring'em Back Alive but the series was bigger than just him, if Sinclair had remained it would have still been gripping. 

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Grail; a great performance as ever from David Warner but the whole Kosh working for some gangster subplot is beyond stupid (although William Sanderson will return in B5; Thirdspace). Although I like Londo hiding in his quarters and Vir proving his lack of mercenary nature. Some nice stuff with the magistrate. Brave of any series to put its' final scene in its' first season.  

Eyes; Interesting, a pity everyone who ever criticizes our heroes turns out to be a raving psycho, such a cliché. On the other hand nice to see Jeffrey Coombs in a heroic role, Ivanova's big hatred for the Psi-Corps evident.  The Lennier and Garabaldi motorbike routine is funny, wish we'd seen the bike again. 

Legacies; Ivanova and Talia Winters fighting over the new telepath is great and speaks of their future relationship. Minbari internal politics is also fascinating it sure is a turn up as to who stole the body.   

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On ‎24‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 1:45 PM, benteen said:

I just finished watching Babylon 5 last night and I loved it.  It really was a great show and it made me angry that I didn't follow the show when it was originally on.  I saw the first episode when it was originally on and thought it was dumb.  I never watched a complete episode after that except for bits and pieces but heard often how good of a show it was.  It took me more than 20 years but I'm glad I gave it a second chance.  I was not disappointed.  Epic storytelling and memorable characters.  Particularly ahead of its time on the storytelling front and I wish more shows would have an idea where they are headed.  Sleeping in Light was definitely one of the best series finales I've ever watched.

 

I ended up watching by ordering the DVDs.  The total price for them wasn't bad but it's ridiculous that this show isn't available on at least one of the three major streaming services.

 

It's frustrating that you can't find any Babylon 5 book nowadays (except for season guide books it looks like), especially considering many of those books are canon and conclude certain story elements.

Did they do original novels? I never saw any?

On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 4:21 PM, benteen said:

I disagree on Sheridan though Boxleitner certainly has his over-the-top moments.  I was pleased when I realized that Delenn was played by the same actress who played the French woman on Lost.  She was very good and the characters of Londo and G'Kar were consistently the best.  Agreed that the acting could be clunky at times and the dialogue could be cringe-inducing.  I think that has to do with the language restrictions of the era.  There were times when you needed harsher language and they could barely use the word "ass." 

 

I think we're agreement though about Battlestar Galactica and Lost.  I loved BSG and they had some great stories but I find my opinion of it declining with each passing year because it was clear that Ron Moore and his writers had absolutely no plan for a long-term story whatsoever.  The same with Lost.

B5 isn't perfect in that regard by any means, it was written for 5 seasons but they didn't know if they'd get all 5 so crammed a lot into 4. I always wondered if BSG (modern version) had any idea of how many eps they would get?

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On ‎25‎/‎04‎/‎2016 at 8:11 PM, ProfCrash said:

No many how many times I have watched the series, I cannot get past my dislike for Sheridan. He was so damn boring. I strongly prefer Sinclair. I wish that O'Hare's health had been good enough that he could have stayed on because I think we lost a lot of good stories when Sinclair departed. I also think it affected Garibaldi's growth.

 

But I know I am in the minority there.

Let's not get into Team Sheridan and Team Sinclair, had enough of that with Angel/Spike. You have to think to yourself how Sinclair would have coped with the post season 1 storylines? But in likeability stakes Sheridan has the clear advantage, right from the beginning. 

On ‎08‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 8:13 AM, Goldmoon said:

ProfCrash, I'm with you.  IMO BB can't act at all.  For four years, he was the hero we were supposed to watch and listen to with his gravelly voice, but Sinclair had so much more gravitas and a much better voice for leadership.  I thought Mira Furlan was great in the first season.  Her version of Delenn was strong and sure, and very confident.  The character may have lost confidence after that but whatever the reason, I detested MF's portrayal of Delenn after the change.  I absolutely loathed the way the actress tilted when she left a room.  Did you notice, as if her center of gravity couldn't withstand a corner? Put them together, the romantic leads of the show by actors I thought were seriously miscast well ... thank Valen for Andreas Katsulas, Peter Jurasik and Richard Biggs.

I bought the DVD sets when they were $75 EACH.  Yikes.  It hurts my heart to see how low the prices are now.  I would re-buy if they would come out in blu ray.  I am just now rewatching and have practically inhale seasons one and two in one week.  Damn the first three seasons of this show were stellar!

I always wondered if Delenn's change was always on the cards or could the actress just not stand the makeup?

On ‎11‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 3:48 AM, JES004 said:

Loved Boxleitner, hated O'Hare.  I don't know if I could have stayed with the show if he had remained.  I don't get gravitas from O'Hare.  I get wooden.

As to the rest of the cast, the chemistry they created was among the best in television.  

I need to do a rewatch.  Season's 2-5   ;-)  Although I do love the Season 1 episode (Believers) that focused strongly on Franklin.  

I'm curious, where did you stand on Ivanova/Lochley? 

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A Voice in the Wilderness 1&2; Does the actor who plays Draal change over time, he seems different to me? Is it just a coincidence that the planet they build B5 to orbit turns out to be this super advanced technological powerhouse? Hmmmmm, Vorlorn meddling? All very Forbidden Planet, had forgotten that Garabaldi had a thing for Talia. Our first mention of the problems on Mars? Londo refers to his wife, Timov? Always thought that Tony Todd commanded the Earth warship that turned up but maybe I'm confusing this with another ep?

Babylon Squared; Why did they have to wake Ivanova, no night duty? No Dr Franklin? How come Garabaldi does all the medical exposition? And only three Minbari take their hoods off, saving on the makeup budget? In my memory the commander of B4 was a panicker if not a coward but actually rewatching he copes admirably with an extraordinary situation. Very 2001 spacesuit, would have liked a reunion scene between the B4 crew and their relatives who had long since given them up for dead. So obvious now it's Delenn with future Sinclair at the end but I had no idea first time around. Possibly my favourite ep of s1, exciting, intelligent and mystifying in a good way.  

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There were  series of stand alone novels, some were excellent, most were mediocre and few were awful. There were two trilogies, one Centuri Prime and one Technomge that were good. And there was a short comic book series. The better books covered what happened to Sinclair when he left Babylon 5 and went to Minbar and Anna and Mordens trip to Zahadum. There were two omic book arcs that were particularly interesting, one covered how Sinclair and Garibaldi met and the other dealt with Sinclair as Valen. The art work in the comic books was awful. 

JMS has said that season four ended up being rushed to finish the Shadow War and both civil wars because there was not going to be a season 5. They also lost Claudia Christian because she wanted to renegotiate her contrct which JMS would not do since everyone else signed the same contract they had before. So season 5 lost Ivanova which forced Lochley into a larger role then I think she was suppose to have. So Season 5 dragged out a few storylines and introduced a major new character which bogged it down.

Delenn was always meant to change. JMS has been clear on that. Her connection to Sinclir was huge, I remember gsping at that reveal. But she was always meant to change. 

As for camps, regardless of the acting job, I find the character on Sinclair to be far more interesting then Sheridan. There was a depth written into Sinclair that was missing from Sheridan. O’Hare was not a great actor and was not the best fit for the role. His illness did not help. Boxleitner got along with everyone on the cast and it made for better television because everyone was more at ease. And Boxleitner had far more TV experience so was able to do a better job in front of the camera. But the character of Sheridan was boring, a stereotype. (Shrugs) The show was still amazing and I did spend a good amount of time hoping for Sheridan to die, even though I knew it wouldn’t happen. JMS was such a tease.... 

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Yup, I forgot about the Psi Corp one. It was pretty good. I think all of the trilogies had two solidly strong books and then a dude. Normally the third book was the weaker book.

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On ‎05‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 1:30 AM, ProfCrash said:

There were  series of stand alone novels, some were excellent, most were mediocre and few were awful. There were two trilogies, one Centuri Prime and one Technomge that were good. And there was a short comic book series. The better books covered what happened to Sinclair when he left Babylon 5 and went to Minbar and Anna and Mordens trip to Zahadum. There were two omic book arcs that were particularly interesting, one covered how Sinclair and Garibaldi met and the other dealt with Sinclair as Valen. The art work in the comic books was awful. 

JMS has said that season four ended up being rushed to finish the Shadow War and both civil wars because there was not going to be a season 5. They also lost Claudia Christian because she wanted to renegotiate her contrct which JMS would not do since everyone else signed the same contract they had before. So season 5 lost Ivanova which forced Lochley into a larger role then I think she was suppose to have. So Season 5 dragged out a few storylines and introduced a major new character which bogged it down.

Delenn was always meant to change. JMS has been clear on that. Her connection to Sinclir was huge, I remember gsping at that reveal. But she was always meant to change. 

As for camps, regardless of the acting job, I find the character on Sinclair to be far more interesting then Sheridan. There was a depth written into Sinclair that was missing from Sheridan. O’Hare was not a great actor and was not the best fit for the role. His illness did not help. Boxleitner got along with everyone on the cast and it made for better television because everyone was more at ease. And Boxleitner had far more TV experience so was able to do a better job in front of the camera. But the character of Sheridan was boring, a stereotype. (Shrugs) The show was still amazing and I did spend a good amount of time hoping for Sheridan to die, even though I knew it wouldn’t happen. JMS was such a tease.... 

Yes, we never do get to see Sinclair and Garabaldi meet, that would have been interesting. 

Honestly we don't know how Sinclair would have developed, Captain Picard was quite staid at first but opened up later. But Sheridan was much more instantly likeable in terms of both actor and character (currently reading CC's autobiography but she hasn't got to the B5 years yet, just sibling death, losing her virginity to rape, diets, being hit on by William Shatner, mountains of cocaine. booze, false cleavage and horse urine beauty treatments for The Hidden and Dodi Al Fayed so far). 

On ‎05‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 9:03 AM, Joe said:

There were three trilogies. The other one was fucussed on Bester. That was my favourite.

What do they say about the Devil having the best tunes?

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On ‎05‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 3:01 PM, ProfCrash said:

Yup, I forgot about the Psi Corp one. It was pretty good. I think all of the trilogies had two solidly strong books and then a dude. Normally the third book was the weaker book.

Novelizations are normally a mixed bag, I was the world's biggest Buffy fan but could never get into the books although they were very successful with over 50 produced. By contrast the Dr Who novel Human Nature was so successful it was adapted into 2 episodes Human Nature/Family of Blood which are considered some of the greatest ever eps. 

On ‎07‎/‎09‎/‎2017 at 12:13 AM, Locutus said:

Thought I'd drop in after watching In The Beginning. It's been awhile. Seeing it now gives me a whole new sympathy for Dukat. Such an honorable person, and he was totally used by the Vorlons as a means to an end. 

Ok, is that a Freudian slip or deliberate satire?

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On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 4:24 AM, ParadoxLost said:

I never watched all of S! and S5 of this show and didn't bother buying those DVDs.  I've watched S2-S4 multiple times.

So now that the whole series is available on Amazon Prime, I'm going to finally watch all of season 1. 

I'm about halfway through S1 now and struggling with it.

Early episodes...the dialogue was awful.  It was like they were trying to create the human characters through dialogue and they were doing stuff like  Ivanova is Russian and has to speak words out of order in the most awkward way possible to get that across.  And every single human character is so stiff initially, especially in groups.  Knowing that later seasons didn't feel this way and Londo, Vir, and G'Kar never came across this way its feeling like this was the show's way of conveying that they are members of the human military.  But it comes across as actors taking turns to say their lines with no actual connection to each other or the material.   Its uncomfortable to watch.   I think this is why I could never get into season 1.

It was cool at the beginning to catch hints of what was to come.  And counting the times they say the word "shadow" should be a drinking game.

But I've been on a string of stand alone episodes for a while and I definitely liked the show better when it got more into the arcs in later seasons.  Rewatch has convinced me that Sinclair was supposed to be around for the whole show if for no other reason than I'm noticing how many of Sinclair's plots they had Sheridan repeat to have a similar well of experiences to draw on and relationship building to set up the rest of the series. 

Ah, finally.  Mr Morden has arrived.  And Ivanova, Garibaldi, and Sinclair are having a discussion of raiders that has them relaxed in each others presence.  And Londo and G'Kar fighting. " Signs and Portents", perhaps this is where it starts getting good.

It is shakey in he beginning, it looks cheap. I was so glad they ditched that preying mantis crime lord, that was risible. 

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On ‎06‎/‎07‎/‎2018 at 10:53 PM, Constant Viewer said:

Yeah, I wonder what the show would have been like if Sinclair had stayed, and also if Talia had stayed on as well.  I do have to admit, I did not really get attached to the Sinclair. Whatever happened to Catherine Sakai?

Yes, that would have been a nice touch had she turned up again but I guess they were trying to establish Sheridan and didn't want to retread old ground. 

On ‎25‎/‎09‎/‎2018 at 6:55 AM, SVNBob said:

I'm following along on a "binge"-watch (slash rewatch for some followers) project of Babylon 5 that just started up.  It's been a while since I saw the series myself, so it's a major refresher.  We're only through The Gathering (the TNT re-edited version) and the first two episodes. so far  And I'm surprised at how much of the deep lore is in just those 3 stories.  Details that I remembered from the original airing, but not that they were all front-loaded like this.

There's the hole in Sinclair's mind (and the whole Earth-Minbari war setup) and Lyta and Dr. Kyle's "encounters" with Kosh in the movie.  Not to mention Kosh's greeting to who he thought was Sinclair in the re-edited version. 

The first proper episode has the first mention of Londo's dream of his and G'Kar's eventual deaths with their hands around each other's throat.  There's also a scene in Kosh's quarters that start with an empty encounter suit and a lot of bright light behind a privacy screen.  Ivanova's mother and that family tragedy is also first brought up in this one.  And in the background on ISN, there's the re-election of the weak-chinned Earth President Santiago and his (yet unnamed) multi-chinned Vice President...

And, while the Grey Council is mentioned in the movie, in the second episode, Soul Hunter, we get the reveal that Delenn is one of them. There's also the first mention of the great Minbari figure Dukhat.

So many seeds in so little time.  And there's so much more to come...

I must say I missed that first time around, to predict the end of 2 amazing characters in the very first ep yet have it finally occur in a way so different to how we expect. 

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Ok, The Quality of Mercy; a quote from The Merchant of Venice and also the name of a quite nihilistic ep of The Outer Limits and an equally bleak follow up although actually prequels to the classic series masterpiece 'Demon with a Glass Hand'. I heard a rumour they would have the actor from that show actually cameo on B5 as possibly the same character?

 Centuri court politics always a joy (Damian London very different here to how we see him later) as is the interaction between Lennier and Londo (I remembered Delenn telling Londo off at the end of this ep for leading him astray but perhaps I'm confusing that with another ep?). Mark Ralston of course, the superb Drake from Aliens, June Lockhart from Lost in Space (shame she has no scenes with Billy Mummy?). The judge returns and we get Talia quite effective in a non-Psi Corps story. Great line from Ivanova;

Dr Franklin; "Take your clothes off"

Ivanova; "Not without dinner and flowers"

Wow, cheap date, if only Marcus has known! 

6/10

Chrysalis; 

Nice to see Sinclair's girl back (remember her photoshoot for the B5 pilot 'The Babes of Babylon 5' in the old cheesecake magazine Femme Fatales but can never recall the name of the character or actress. I think Pat Tallman was the only one of the girls in that article who became a regular and I think G'kar was in one shot?).  Londo and Vir scenes a joy as ever, especially the duck joke (the Centuri look so human you sometimes forget they're not). Meanwhile we see G'kar is into Xenophilia and a great scene between him and Sinclair, perhaps Michael O'Hare's best? Ivanova in a dress! Love Garabaldi's line when Sinclair is about to ask him to be his best man;

Sinclair; "I need to ask you to do a job for me"

Garabaldi; "No problem, give me the guy's name and I'll lean on him"

See, that's the man you want as head of security!

Oh but we have the cliched secret agent! A real conspirator, instead of trying to act tough with Garabaldi rather than co-operate fully, carrying a weapon which screams 'Spy' rather than an unregistered one. We see our first Shadows and our first sign a Shadow ship can be damaged, they're not invincible. The President's death is very JFK although nowadays you also think 9/11. Nice that the traitor is a recurring character who'd previously been quite heroic (as was planned for B5's original 2nd in command if I recall?) but could we have fleshed him out a little more? The whole Chrysalis gag is very well done, I was half expecting Delenn to die. 

7/10 

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Not sure how I missed tha Saki question...

Her fate is revealed the book To Dream in the City of Sorrows. She goes to Minbar, joins the Rangers, trains with Marcus, and goes on a mission with Marcus and Sinclair. 

Spoiler

They end up at the temporal rift. Sinclair swaps the devices that the Vorlons give them to protect against the anomoly so that Catherine gets the one the Vorlons gave Sinclair. Sinclair is aware that the Vorlons have some plan for him and would want to protect him. He gives Cathrine that protection. Catherine ends up in the rift and is assumed dead. Sinclair is depressed. He gets in a massive fight with Ulkesh and bans the Vorlons from his presence unless absolutely  necessary.  He leaves a copy of Ulysseys (sp) for Marcus with a note that says her found Catherine after that Marcus gets after Sinclair leaves to become Valen. The implication is that Catherine was transported back 1,000 years to Minbar and Valen found her. She might very well be Delenn’s great, great, great, great, great grandma. 

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Points of Departure;

Sheridan and Hague, both famous generals although spelt differently. Did Ivanova not think that maybe she should be promoted rather than a new commander? The titles are a little more fancy maybe due to increased budget. You wonder was Sheridan put there deliberately by the plotters in order to antagonize the Minbari? Nice reference to Tibet, wouldn't get that nowadays for fear of offending the Chinese. Keffer is the most boring character ever to be introduced on the show (or any show?), I realise they thought they needed some hunk factor but doubt he even rates that? But his hologram letter from his wife(?) is a clever touch. First female Minbari warrior we've seen. I thought the twist would be Delenn persuading the rebel crew to join with her in order to fight the Shadows. Note Sheridan is a cynic, not believing all this stuff about Minbari souls.

6/10

As for Claudia Christian's life story if half of what she says in her autobiography is true then her life is simply beyond any soap opera! We've reach the stage of her mother stealing her boyfriend, her plastic surgery after her dog has a brainstorm and savages her face, her abortions/miscarriages, the mysterious death of her ex-husband in a CIA conspiracy and best of all her car crash giving her temporary amnesia! And no, not kidding about any of this.  

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Revelations;

You have to agree with Londo on this one, the Narns really do seem to be asking for it. It's daft that they make Stephen go first in the machine, they should do Sheridan first so Stephen can help him if something goes wrong. I always thought Sheridan's sister was Elizabeth Gracen (Miss USA/Highlander/Bill Clinton's chippie) but it's not. Interesting relationship, normally when a sibling turns up in a TV show they're the one who needs help from the hero, especially if it's a sister. Are there really no other ships they can send to check out Z'hadum given everything that's going on? 'Be seeing you' of course from The Prisoner. Does the villain ever get any other name than Jack? Even in the titles he's just listed as 'Garabaldi's aide'?

7/10

A Geometry of Shadows;

The Drazi are amusing but a barbarous race as Vir will later point out, I keep expecting Londo to comment 'I despise them more than the Narns!'. Sheridan love of fruit raises its' head again. Claudia sustains a real injury, hence this storyline (she's always hurting herself if you read her book). We see Vir's courage and wider wisdom, Our first mention of Spoo, Lord Refa, Sheridan seems to talk to himself an awful lot. Of course this ep was set during the Yugoslavian Civil War so was very contemporary at the time. The Narn Opera gag makes me laugh out loud even thinking about it.

7/10

A Distant Star

Russ Tamblyn always reminds me of writer Stephen J Cannel. Miguel Nunez essentially recreating his role from Tour of Duty. Delenn is a bit authoritarian, "Understanding is not required, only obedience". The diet gag is funny, CC in real life seeming to rely on cocaine to keep thin. But what's Garabaldi eating when they swap dishes? Note the malfunction which affects the Cortez is the same as blamed for the destruction of the Narn ship at Z'hudum so maybe not so far fetched that everyone accepts its' destruction so readily.

7/10

The Long Dark

Dwight Schultz once again playing a crazed war veteran. Love the way Garabaldi boards the ship gun in hand? He comments that Londo may be in league with the devil which may be true. Don't know what species they are but the alien who gives the speech about the darkness to the council seem very well informed as to what's going on. The beastie (some form of Shadow foot soldier?) looks like a giant gremlin but G'kar's book still gives you a little chill.

6/10 

So I finished CC's autobiography and it's a kick, she finishes off by having  an affair with her younger stepbrother (that'll teach her mother to steal her boyfriend!) and has a convention in London right in the middle of the worst riots in living memory. I'd highly recommend it to anyone. Now I'll go find Pat Tallman's book. 

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31 minutes ago, Joe Hellandback said:

Our first mention of Spoo,

Not so.  G'Kar is eating some fresh spoo and even offers some to Londo by name just before Londo confronts him about the attack on Ragesh 3 near the beginning of Midnight on the Firing Line (aka the first regular episode). 

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11 hours ago, Joe Hellandback said:

'Be seeing you' of course from The Prisoner.

The twist being that while in The Prisoner the Number 2 would say it while forming a "b" over their eye, Psi Corps do it over their forehead because they're not watching what you do, they're watching what you're thinking.

I have to say, I disliked much of the first series because the reptilian Narn were so clearly the villains while the more human looking Centauri (and to a lesser extent, the Minbari) were more sympathetic. So I was glad that later on, the Centauri/Narn relationship becomes rather more nuanced.

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22 hours ago, SVNBob said:

Not so.  G'Kar is eating some fresh spoo and even offers some to Londo by name just before Londo confronts him about the attack on Ragesh 3 near the beginning of Midnight on the Firing Line (aka the first regular episode). 

Are you sure you're not thinking of the ep later where they rescue Na'toth?  

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