S04.E20: It's Sure Gonna Hurt

[tennisgurl]

Honestly, I know this show has jumped so many sharks they could be at Sea World, but I am still sad to see it go. I feel like there are so many plot threads left hanging, and so many characters are still left in limbo. I have been watching since the pilot, and I need some closure!

Luke has officially become my favorite character on this show. Go figure. Never saw that one coming. I guess some new characters worked out. Others...not so much. 

It was weird not checking on Cash and Maddie this week. Not that I like seeing them, but I find it funny how they were suddenly gone after being the central plot of the show for like 4 weeks in a row. 

Just get Avery and Juliette back together already. We all see it coming. And Scarlette loves Gunnar? Well duh. You didn't really need a weird photo shoot therapy session for that. I assume by the end, all couples will be successfully paired off, or at least could they give them some closure? 

At least we had one song this week. 

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, MaryM47 said:

And speaking of Autumn, hey, we've got a Brit and and Aussie on this show who can both do a passable Southern accent, so you need to rethink your vocal choices. And eat a cheeseburger, for heaven's sake!

I hate practically everything about the Autumn character, but her body isn't one of those things.

[MaryM47]

Her body's fine, I just find her face a bit gaunt for my taste.

[pattycat]

I think Chip and Connie have some of the best screen Chemistry I have ever seen on Primetime TV.  The only actors I compare it to; Roy Dupuis and Peta Wilson, Michael and Nikita, on the original TV version of La Femme Nikita, on USA, and that was years ago, and  a Very different type of show. 

I still,love their angsty, tumultuous, passionate relationship.  A love that survives the worst they can throw at it. 

The one thing I hoped we would see, in their relationship, before the end; Rayna really accepting her share of their pain and problems. As the therapist pointed out, she built a wall, then put a door in it.  A door that she pulled Deacon in and out of, at will; knowing how much in love with her, he still was.  Was he a grown man, who could have walked away; of course.  Just like she was a grown woman, who could have walked away from a dysfunctional relationship, with  an alcoholic who just couldn't stay sober.  If Deacon can play the martyr, so can Rayna; not missing a chance to throw their history and all the pain, he caused, in his face.  "This is what I've suffered through,all these years"!

I wanted to see Rayna, at some point, acknowledge, the ultimate betrayal, in their relationship was her's.  The 13 year paternity secret, while keeping Deacon, close in her, and her girl's life. I wanted to see both of them really address that,and the pain it caused.   

At this point,I'm  guessing, we'll end with R/D in a better place, committed to working on their marriage.  Better than seeing a couple, who, just a couple of months ago, vowed their lives, to each other, head down Divorce path!

[Muffyn]

Derek Hough has zero screen presence.  Glad Juliet said goodbye.

Every time Layla is seen, I find myself narrating "Layla and her bangs enter the room".

I hate the trope of someone who has just met a woman can know so much more about her than she does herself.  I am not talking about the therapist who is trained to ask questions that lead to a greater understanding.  The photographer spends time with Scarlett and can tell she is holding back and is actually really a sad panda. Okay. Because show me the happy turned into show me the sad. 

The shame is this show is that there were originally interesting characters and some very strong actors.  This was thrown away with bad writing, too many back-and-forth storylines and unrealistic dramahz.   

[MisterS]

14 hours ago, GaT said:

Stupid, STUPID, Nashville writers, next week is your fault.

Yup.

This episode was completely dull. Deacon and Rayna were the best thing, but their scenes were edited to make room for the remaining snoozefest.  More time was given to Luke arguing with his ex father in law than Rayna arguing with Deacon. WHY? No one cares. Why does Nashville self-destruct like this? Based on this drivel no one at ABC will be questioning the decision to cancel.

[NorthstarATL]

17 hours ago, GaT said:

This is why the show sucks now, who is making these stupid decisions? First, why is Elton John on this show? He's not country, there are who-knows-how-many actual country singers that are famous they could have gotten, but no, they get someone who nobody has ever associated with country music. Second, Will is finally standing up for himself as a gay man & and artist, so the show gets Elton John, an openly gay man who is an advocate for gay rights on the show, & has him be part of Gunnar's storyline? WTF? Why isn't Elton John supporting Will? Doesn't this make more sense? Stupid, STUPID, Nashville writers, next week is your fault.

Some of Elton's best stuff was from his early countrified period, such as:

Actually, including him in Gunnar's story, rather than Will's or Deacon's (he is also a recovering alcoholic) proves that there is more to a person than just one characteristic, though they did get it wrong by Witt's character pointing out that Elton is a "solo" act, when it is the songwriting team with Bernie Taupin that has been the key to his success.

I was fearful that Will's stalker was going to do him damage, so I was happy he was just there to stroke him. The StrawWoman adversary is tedious enough without layering on the cliches. I wish they had just allowed Will to be a country singer who also happened to be gay, rather than Gay Will The Tortured Country Singer.

  I couldn't get past comparing Rayna and Deacon's therapist to the President. They really could use a family counselor, but it's a bit late for that.

 I find it hard to fathom that Scarlett's ad campaign would require that much effort and time. They were selling headphones, right?

 I'm glad this is over soon.

[Brinny]

If I was flipping channels and this was the first episode of Nashville that I had ever seen, there is NO WAY I'd tune back in. What a colossal mess. Just start to finish. Whomever's decision it was at ABC to renew or cancel did this show a favour. 

Edited May 20, 2016 by Brinny

[DeLurker]

@Muffyn - Hough screen presence diminishes substantially when paired with Juliette.  He probably could have held his own with Layla and The Romulan Hair. 

I'm glad this is cancelled since I hate how they are / have been wasting some first rate talent. 

Was not taken with Elton John's song. 

[whatsatool]

Loose ends Gunnar's Micah, homeless thief who vanished, Mayor in prison who Daphne's forgot is her dad, Rayna actually working, Deacon actually working.

Edited May 20, 2016 by whatsatool

[bilgistic]

Derek Hough looks like exactly his sister wearing a fake moustache and shorter-haired wig.

[annabel]

I think that the therapist was on several episodes of The Grinder, playing a judge, or someone pretending to be a judge or some whatnot. Anyway, he and the kid who plays Theo Carver on Days of our Lives are both shoo-in casting for the eventual Barack Obama movie.

[dcalley]

48 minutes ago, annabel said:

I think that the therapist was on several episodes of The Grinder, playing a judge, or someone pretending to be a judge or some whatnot. Anyway, he and the kid who plays Theo Carver on Days of our Lives are both shoo-in casting for the eventual Barack Obama movie.

Thanks for that. He's been in a ton of stuff, but The Grinder is where I've seen him most recently. http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0493013/

[Lillybee]

I did like Elton's tune on this show. Luke's father in law needs to shut up.

[Isazouzi]

11 hours ago, Muffyn said:

 

I hate the trope of someone who has just met a woman can know so much more about her than she does herself.  I am not talking about the therapist who is trained to ask questions that lead to a greater understanding.  The photographer spends time with Scarlett and can tell she is holding back and is actually really a sad panda. Okay. Because show me the happy turned into show me the sad. 

You're right, of course, but at least she made her stop twirling like a lunatic with her stupid dress. "Heeeee look at me! This is me happy!"

[wendyg]

I'm sorry if I've said this before, but I really wish they'd made Autumn a hugely successful much-in-demand back-up pianist. That's not the way the show is now (gone are the days when everyone revered Deacon's guitar wizardry), but Alicia Witt can really *play*. Whereas, her voice does not sound like she can *sing* - and note that she hasn't.

[grannygeek]

  On 5/19/2016 at 3:54 AM, GaT said:

Stupid, STUPID, Nashville writers, next week is your fault.

Yup.

This episode was completely dull. Deacon and Rayna were the best thing, but their scenes were edited to make room for the remaining snoozefest.  More time was given to Luke arguing with his ex father in law than Rayna arguing with Deacon. WHY? No one cares. Why does Nashville self-destruct like this? Based on this drivel no one at ABC will be questioning the decision to cancel.

this can't be said too often: "Stupid, STUPID, Nashville writers, next week is your fault."

[Trixie Belden]

If they wanted a "real" gay musician on the show, why didn't they get Chely Wright?  She's an openly gay country singer who lost her entire career after she came out, now she's a gay rights activist.  She would have at least made a tiny bit of sense.  But, this wasn't about Will's coming out storyline, it was about stupid Gunnar and stupid Scarlett and their stupid ships that pass in the night romance.  I truly have no idea wtf they were thinking with that whole mess.

[Kathemy]

They're assholes. They have no real idea about the reality of the struggle for equal rights. They're just trying to hop on the politically correct train to score points.

As proved by virtually every plot they've done in false service of equality and justice for all since this show started.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Nashville Bids Hello To Sir Elton

Too bad it's in aid of a dumb subplot.

[Auntie Anxiety]

I fast forwarded through Elton John and his ridiculous toupee...or was that thing just a lemur that fell onto Elton's head and went to sleep there? You have millions of dollars, Elton.  Buy at rug that doesn't distract your audience.  Maybe he spent all his $$ on that privacy fight with that London newspaper (I don't know the details because I wasn't interested in wasting even more of my not-so-valuable time).

Here's an idea! How about they have Deacon getting drunk and having him do some destructive stuff? Because that hasn't happened often enough in every season.

[Angeltoes]

There's probably not a day that goes by in Elton John's life that someone doesn't shove a stranger in his face and tell him that the stranger is really talented.  I'm sure he's perfected the art of politely saying how nice that is and pretending to find it interesting without actually bringing the stranger on stage with him.

They showed the flashback of Gunner and Scarlett making out and then he flipped her onto the bed.  Then they showed him doing the exact same moves with Autumn.  Dude must be boring in bed.

Whatever happened to that chick that disappeared that stole the money from the Beverly?

[pattycat]

1 hour ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

H ere's an idea! How about they have Deacon getting drunk and having him do some destructive stuff? Because that hasn't happened often enough in every season.

Ummmm-I have watched every episode, at least once, from Episode 1.  I recall One Time, at the end of Season 1, when Deacon got drunk.  His fall off the wagon, was after learning:

(a) The Woman he had loved and trusted, more than anyone, on the planet, most of his life, had betrayed him, by keeping the secret of their Daughter, for 13 years, while keeping him in her life. 

(b) He had learned his AA sponsor, Coleman, was involved, at least in counseling Rayna, to permanently cut Deacon loose, and perhaps, in the paternity cover up.

(c) Jolene, Juliette's Mom, that he had been trying so hard to help, with her addiction issues, had been involved in a murder-suicide!

Not saying that falling off a 13 year wagon, was a good way to handle all of this; but, as reasons go, I'd say, easier to understand than many!

When else, has Deacon gotten drunk, let alone, every Season!

[Auntie Anxiety]

My point, pattycake, was that so many of the plot lines have been repeated time and again, as if there is some kind of binary rule in place for writing scripts for this show.  It started out really good in Season 1, the music was excellent (and I don't normally listen to country music) and the characters hadn't yet become caricatures of themselves.  Rayna and Deacon?  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Scarlett and Gunnar?  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Avery and Juliette?  Lather, rinse, repeat.  Layla and her very special brand of manipulation?  Lather, rinse, repeat.

Even a daytime soap has more depth to the story than this idiotic show.  Seriously, I hope they don't find another platform for this atrocity. For better (Breaking Bad, The Wire) or for worse (Lost, The Sopranos, The Good Wife, Mad Men, Dexter), I tend to stick with shows for the long haul and even 40 minutes (DVR time) is becoming too much time for me to waste at this point. YMMV

[dcalley]

Deacon's been a dry drunk. Juliette even called him that to his face once.

This episode seemed so choppy to me. There were a lot of short scenes that kept cutting to the next short scene.

[LotusFlower]

30 minutes ago, dcalley said:

This episode seemed so choppy to me. There were a lot of short scenes that kept cutting to the next short scene.

I noticed that, too.  They definitely re-cut the episode after they found out the show got the ax.  I'm sure next week will be the same, or even worse.  It's a bummer.  The show's been so bad lately, but I was still invested in (some of) the storylines, and now it feels like a we'll be watching a season finale instead of a series finale, which kinda stinks.

[bilgistic]

That's why they could've cut out all that business with Luke and his father-in-law in the hospital. Colt's in the army; great. We didn't need to see him again. Now he's out, I guess? Who even cares about these fourth-tier characters? It's just filler that doesn't matter now. Like Vida...

[kismet]

I think they left the Colt part in to show that what Luke is doing is a good thing and that his son is noticing. It probably is a good way to wrap up Luke's storyline since they had spent a lot on how Luke is changing. It was nice.

Also as much as they can cut stuff, they can't necessarily film new stuff - so there might not have been more of what we all want to see.

[PoMoPink]

20 hours ago, Auntie Anxiety said:

Maybe he spent all his $$ on that privacy fight with that London newspaper (I don't know the details because I wasn't interested in wasting even more of my not-so-valuable time).

Shhhhhh ... we in England aren't allowed to know about that ;)

[J-Man]

Quote

I kinda got a kick out of the sadistic photog urging Scarlett to dredge up her most painful feelings to get genuine looking shots.

It reminded me of Glenn Close's guest appearance on "Will and Grace."

I'm pretty sure the ONLY reason that Elton John was on this show was to plug his album. Isn't that why anyone does anything these days?

[Auntie Anxiety]

If Elton is going on this show to plug his album, he needs to hire a new agent. I agree that is the most plausible reason, but it just seems like such a mismatch, not to mention the low ratings.

[thuganomics85]

Elton John?  I mean, I don't dislike him or anything, and I certainly like a good amount of his music (Circle of Life for life!), but he is really not the first person I would stunt cast for a country show.  To be fair, yeah, they did the same thing with Christina Aguilera, but I felt they had more plausible way with her.  Here, he's just playing himself, who is apparently friends with Autumn (huh?), and is so impressed with Gunnar, that he brings him on strange at the last minute.  Sure thing, Nashville.

At least no Maddie, Frankie, or Cash, prevented this episode from being rage-inducing, but it was just kind of dull, which is almost just as bad.  In theory, Rayna and Deacon going to therapy is a great idea, but of course it would somehow end up making them grow further apart, even though the therapist pretty much pegged them.  Deacon in particular, was getting on my nerves with is "I should just leave, because clearly we will never work out!"  Way to fight for it, Deacon.  I feel so bad for Connie Britton and Charles Esten, because they are fantastic together, but wow, is this material failing them, left and right.

Oh, look: first glance at Noah, and Avery is suddenly a dingus who is getting jealous that Juliette dare tries to move on.  Hey, you were the one who hitched yourself to Captain Crazypants, so don't be getting pissy with Juliette for trying to find love elsewhere.  Of course, Juliette and Noah were dull too, and in the end, kind of pointless.  I said it before, but I still wish they would have focused more on this Oscar stuff.  Probably since I'm so into the Oscars in real life, but I just find it silly how it's pretty much an afterthought.  In real life, Oscar nominations are like the biggest award ever in a celebrities career, and there would be nonstop campaigns, media, and drama surrounding it.  I'd much rather see Juliette in the thick of that, instead of rolling around with a guy from Dancing with the Stars.

Man, do I hate everything involving Scarlett and Gunnar now.  Of course, this photographer/headphones commercial would lead to Scarlett finally pulling her head out of her ass, and admit she truly loves him.  And, of course, he ends up sleeping with Autumn right after.  Both of them are idiots.  Idiots who deserve each other.

At least Will is finally making progress and now willing to fight the one-dimensional Ann Coulter clone.  I hope they actually let him win this, and not just knock him down again.  Meanwhile, Luke continues to surprisingly be one of the best characters on this show.  I'm rooting for him too.  And, again, if this was real-life, he would totally be coming out golden.  Sure, the bigots are loud, but as we saw on The View clip, he would have equal, if not more, support for standing up for Will.

I hope the show finds some way to stick the landing next week, even though I doubt it.  Of course, there is always a shot someone will pick this up, even though I really would be surprised who would want to be saddled with this depressing, dreary show.

[Kathemy]

21 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

At least Will is finally making progress and now willing to fight the one-dimensional Ann Coulter clone.  I hope they actually let him win this, and not just knock him down again.

Depends on what you mean by win, I guess. The original version of the finale,

Spoiler

the storyline leads to his boyfriend getting murdered for it.

Edited May 22, 2016 by kariyaki
Added spoiler tags

[kismet]

I really want to know why Elton went on the show... I mean is he a secret fan or was it just a money thing. I'm just curious.

As for the spoiler @Telepath dropped, I hope they find a way to edit that because that is wicked depressing for the series finale. It might happen still, but just wow no uplifting ending this season was ever in their plans was there.

[Kathemy]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

I really want to know why Elton went on the show... I mean is he a secret fan or was it just a money thing. I'm just curious.

As for the spoiler @Telepath dropped, I hope they find a way to edit that because that is wicked depressing for the series finale. It might happen still, but just wow no uplifting ending this season was ever in their plans was there.

Clearly this show isn't meant to be enjoyable, it's meant to teach the audience valuable life lessons. Such as that you shouldn't attempt to stand up against small-minded, ignorant bigots, you shouldn't fight against oppression and you shouldn't fight for your own rights unless you want your friends and family beat up or murdered.

Edited May 22, 2016 by Telepath
ETA

[MisterS]

5 hours ago, Telepath said:

Depends on what you mean by win, I guess. The original version of the finale,

  Reveal hidden contents

the storyline leads to his boyfriend getting murdered for it.

This is the worst. What's wrong with these writers? I hope they don't go there.

[Kathemy]

2 minutes ago, MisterS said:

This is the worst. What's wrong with these writers? I hope they don't go there.

The original finale

Spoiler

cliffhanged the outcome of the shooting, so maybe we'll get to see Kevin bleed out and die on the sidewalk in the alternate version?

[KaveDweller]

18 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

Oh, look: first glance at Noah, and Avery is suddenly a dingus who is getting jealous that Juliette dare tries to move on.  Hey, you were the one who hitched yourself to Captain Crazypants, so don't be getting pissy with Juliette for trying to find love elsewhere.  Of course, Juliette and Noah were dull too, and in the end, kind of pointless.  I said it before, but I still wish they would have focused more on this Oscar stuff.  Probably since I'm so into the Oscars in real life, but I just find it silly how it's pretty much an afterthought.  In real life, Oscar nominations are like the biggest award ever in a celebrities career, and there would be nonstop campaigns, media, and drama surrounding it.  I'd much rather see Juliette in the thick of that, instead of rolling around with a guy from Dancing with the Stars.

I think they just wanted to have Juliette with someone, so if she and Avery get back together they are both on the same page. 

I actually kind of liked her with someone normal and a little boring. He seemed to be good for her. Being alone for awhile would probably be even better for her, but this is TV.

[feverfew]

15 hours ago, Telepath said:

The original finale

  Hide contents

cliffhanged the outcome of the shooting, so maybe we'll get to see Kevin bleed out and die on the sidewalk in the alternate version?

Okay, that's it. I won't watch the finale until I've read what you clever people have to say about it. Really, show? You wanna break up like that?

Edited May 22, 2016 by feverfew

[smartymarty]

  On 5/19/2016 at 4:57 PM, Muffyn said:

 

I hate the trope of someone who has just met a woman can know so much more about her than she does herself.  I am not talking about the therapist who is trained to ask questions that lead to a greater understanding.  The photographer spends time with Scarlett and can tell she is holding back and is actually really a sad panda. Okay. Because show me the happy turned into show me the sad. 

You're right, of course, but at least she made her stop twirling like a lunatic with her stupid dress. "Heeeee look at me! This is me happy!"

And like the photographer really has all day to do this. She's probably paid by the hour.

[Clanstarling]

I love Connie Britton, and I love Chip. They have great chemistry together, and I loved their relationship in the first season, at least in the beginning, when they seemed to be old lovers who've dealt with the past and learned to be friends and musical partners. Both have become people I wouldn't care to know (and who, unfortunately, I have known in real life). I don't have much sympathy for either one of them. Which really saddens me, because I really liked this show.

I don't buy the idea that a great passion or romance is ever this kind of bi-polar relationship whipsawing between highs and lows with little to no middle, and no real communication. I don't find that romantic - I find it nauseating. I think the writers have done both characters a great disservice.

For that matter, they've screwed up most of their characters. Though I will say, Juliette came off best in this episode. She's shown real growth - whereas almost every other character seems to have devolved.

[candall]

It tickles me to think that Elton John is a fan of Nashville--sitting over there with the hubs, watching illegally downloaded episodes from Pirate Bay.

But it does make sense because there were multiple aspects of his life reflected along the way.

We're always here if you want to chat it up, Reggie.

[Bwill3133]

23 hours ago, feverfew said:

Okay, that's it. I won't watch the finale until I've read what you clever people have to say about it. Really, show? You wanna break up like that?    

That sounds awful. I hope that part has at least been changed. Glad to see Will is about to stand up for himself. 

Broken record from me but Juliette is still my favorite part of the show. Nice to see she has grown. I love Avery but if you don't want to get back together with Juliette , eventually some other guy is going to be around Cadence. Not so soon obviously but in the future. Derek Hough is no great thespian but I liked Noah West. He was nice and boring and that's what she needed at the moment. Now she can just concentrate on her daughter and music. 

I know I'm over Rayna and a Deacon because nothing they said about each other in therapy moved me. I'm kind of sad about it but that's been a long time coming. How have they never been to therapy before now? Ridiculous. And poor Daphne at "Simone's." Whoever that is. My wish for the end is that in the future , Daphne Wyatt (using Lamar's last name) never sets foot in Nashville post high school, is close with Tandy and leaves all these people in the dust. Lol. 

[kismet]

8 hours ago, smartymarty said:

And like the photographer really has all day to do this. She's probably paid by the hour.

If I was paid by the hour, I would definitely stretch it out as long as possible if the client is willing to pay it.

[aradia22]

Oh, now Rayna and Deacon finally go to therapy? By the way, this episode confirms yet again how badly Nashville has handled the "fated" relationships of Rayna/Deacon and Scarlett/Gunnar. They made us believe they had chemistry at points but jerking us around as they have the sentiment doesn't ring true anymore. I did appreciate that the therapist said they BOTH had issues.

I did have to laugh at the picture Hayden and Derek made with the baby. A perfect little blond family. DH is not a great actor but I wouldn't have minded having a character like him around. Juliette deserves to have a perfect guy with no ulterior motives for a while because you know the writers are stewing and concocting some other way to screw up her life. Not being into him because of spaghetti squash and a movie seems really superficial when he's such a solid guy in every other way. I mean, yes, I know she's supposed to be with Avery but you know, we could let it play out a little longer. Like DH said, they could be passionate about the same stuff with time. You can't always expect to meet someone with all the same interests.

What? I thought Colt was going to get a taste of real army training and snap back to reality. Not that we were going to get more of the homophobia plotline spilling over. For real, Nashville? For real? Look, the military has it's issues but representing new recruits as the kind of people who would beat a fellow recruit so badly that he had a concussion, etc. because his dad wanted to support a gay country singer... I mean, really, Nashville? Really? Ugh, these writers.

Who cares about Sarge? Really, though. Who was like... let's meet Luke's father in law? Was someone clamoring for this? Heck, we haven't even met his ex-wife and he mentions her a lot more.

I'm so glad that guy was supportive and not there to shoot Will. I would not put it past these stupid writers. That said, everybody knows where he lives and he has no security. MOVE.

That photographer was nonsense. How long did they spend getting one photo most people will not even care about?

Avery, you can't have a child and date a child who gets jealous and guilts you into spending time with her instead of your kid. Ugh, Layla. And all this focus on "perfection" is just setting them up for failure.

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, aradia22 said:

Oh, now Rayna and Deacon finally go to therapy? By the way, this episode confirms yet again how badly Nashville has handled the "fated" relationships of Rayna/Deacon and Scarlett/Gunnar. They made us believe they had chemistry at points but jerking us around as they have the sentiment doesn't ring true anymore. I did appreciate that the therapist said they BOTH had issues.

However, they cut the lines with Deacon confronting Rayna about how she lied to him for over a decade and how the idea that he's the only one who's made mistakes is bullshit, because that would not be Feminist™ enough. Can't have the show acknowledge that Perfect Mrs Country ever did anything wrong.

Edited June 26, 2016 by Telepath

[Kathemy]

2 hours ago, aradia22 said:

What? I thought Colt was going to get a taste of real army training and snap back to reality. Not that we were going to get more of the homophobia plotline spilling over. For real, Nashville? For real? Look, the military has it's issues but representing new recruits as the kind of people who would beat a fellow recruit so badly that he had a concussion, etc. because his dad wanted to support a gay country singer... I mean, really, Nashville? Really? Ugh, these writers.

It's called peddling the gay agenda by promoting misanthropy and it's only the worst idea ever if you want to get across your message. It's like saying "look, all soldiers are assholes" or "look, all common people hate f***" and then expecting said soldiers and common people to support you after listening to your prejudiced nonsense.

[Cranberry]

What, pray tell, is the gay agenda?

[Kathemy]

1 hour ago, Cranberry said:

What, pray tell, is the gay agenda?

I refer to "backing the rights of homosexuals" as the gay agenda. I support the gay agenda. I'm a great fan of, for example, George Takei. He does it with style.

[Cranberry]

I know from your previous posts that you're not anti-gay! You might want to choose a different term, though, as that one's mostly used in a disparaging way by people who do not in any way support gay rights (and in fact sometimes say that the gay agenda involves trying to recruit heterosexuals into the "gay lifestyle").