S13.E24: Family First

[twoods]

MW was fantastic. Him grieving for Ziva was heartbreaking. I don't understand why they had to trash Ziva's character and kill her to complete Tony's storyline. that desk really is bad luck, or just being a female NCIS agent.

Its going to be strange not seeing Tony next season but will give a few episodes to see if I'm still interested. 

They really had to mute the adorable actress who played Tali. She is very talkative on Grandfathered. 

Edited May 18, 2016 by twoods

[Ohmo]

3 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

In a lot of ways this was all about Tony just not directly.  Ziva was one of Tony two great romances.  The other was Jeanne Bonoit.  They were both  blown up figuratively and literally by Kort.  Kort was Tony's big bad and his unfinished business.   I think the emotions were a little off but then again not completely off.  In theory they could see Tony again by getting on a plane so it's not like he is leaving forever so getting blubbery isn't necessary either.    There is a middle ground and I thought the show did it wellish.

I think some of it is very directly.  Two things jump out at me.  First, Tali and Tony are just like Tony and Senior.  Single fathers raising children.  The mothers are dead.  The only difference is that Tony will be raising a daughter instead of a son, and I've got $10 that says that Tali never in a million years will ever see a boarding school.

Second, did anyone happen to focus on the line where Senior said that Tali was all DiNozzo?  There's truth in that.  All of the Davids are dead.  We never met Ziva's mother.  Ari's been dead for over a decade, Tali before that, and Ziva now.  Eli was killed a few years ago.  Tali is biologically half David, but that's no guarantee she will be anything like her mother.  I'm the perfect example of that.  I couldn't be any less like my mother if I tried, but I am a lot like her father.  Tali could be like Tony or Senior (and hopefully not like Eli.)  The David lineage is gone, and the DiNozzo lineage, however small it may be, remains.  Two is greater than zero, so the "all Dinozzo" comment is somewhat prophetic.

I'm sure that Tony will share as much as he can about Ziva with Tali.  I don't think he would deny Tali that, but he will be in charge of crafting that narrative for his daughter, which given the David family history, is not a bad thing.  I think it speaks volumes that Tony is the one left standing, and he will be captain of his ship on the journey of life that he takes with Tali.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ohmo

[camussie]

I thought of something I liked about this episode - that Tony decided to follow his own path instead of becoming a Gibbs clone.  I think that conversation with Palmer was the key moment of the episode.  It made Tony realize that, as much as he admires Gibbs, he doesn't want to be Gibbs and that Gibbs's life not something he should aspire to.  That in turn informed how he dealt with Kort.  Unlike both Gibbs and Ziva Tony didn't go on a revenge solo mission (and I like that McGee trusted that he wouldn't when he called him up).  Instead he went there to confront Kort but not necessarily kill him.  It was only when Kort started to pull his own gun that Tony shot him.  In my mind, his decision to not go the revenge route makes him both a better person and a better agent than Gibbs.

Still Tony finally breaking free of Gibbs isn't enough to counteract my utter disgust at how Ziva treated him until the very end and worse yet that he ended up seeing it as acceptable.  

[HawaiiTVGuy]

18 hours ago, kaygeeret said:

• Completely agree - - -someone somewhere feed McGee a sandwich NOW!

I am hoping the actor is not sick however.

Yeah, any reports as to what happened to McGee?  He looks really old all of a sudden and drawn.

[anna0852]

I think what really stood out for me is how many questions will be left, for both Tony and his daughter. Tali is going to have a lot of questions about her mother as she grows and Tony isn't going to be able to answer all of them. And to an extent has no answer as to *why* he can't. Unless Ziva had some 'in case I die' letter to him stashed somewhere (which I wouldn't put past her to do), she took her reasons for keeping Tali a secret to the grave. Would she ever had told Tony? I think that is something that he'll struggle with. Plus figuring a way to explain Tali's um, complicated, maternal history to her. How much is appropriate to tell her about Ziva's time with Mossad? At what age? How much should he whitewash and how much should be blunt truth? Is Tali an Israeli citizen? An American? Dual? 

Very bittersweet ending I think. A big part of me wants to think Ziva is hiding somewhere in Paris and will be able to answer those questions eventually.

4 minutes ago, HawaiiTVGuy said:

Yeah, any reports as to what happened to McGee?  He looks really old all of a sudden and drawn.

That would be Sean back on his diet.

[HawaiiTVGuy]

8 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

 

That would be Sean back on his diet.

He never looked like someone that needed to diet.  Yikes...I hope he doesn't overdo it.

[buckboard]

When Tali said "Kelev," Tony and his father said, "Oh, her stuffed toy is named Caleb."

No, Kelev is the word for dog in Hebrew.  She was asking for her dog, whatever its name is.  Like when she pointed to the photo and said Abba and Imah.  

[Mama No Life]

My CC had Tony saying 'kelev'.

 

 

Still think Ziva's alive in Paris, though it doesn't make sense...just felt like there were too many hints otherwise.

[secnarf]

44 minutes ago, buckboard said:

When Tali said "Kelev," Tony and his father said, "Oh, her stuffed toy is named Caleb."

No, Kelev is the word for dog in Hebrew.  She was asking for her dog, whatever its name is.  Like when she pointed to the photo and said Abba and Imah.  

I heard Tony say "kelev" as well, not Caleb, and I don't think they specifically said it's "named" anything. They were just trying to use the word that Tali used for it, and then added in the English.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

8 hours ago, BookWitch said:

While the kid was cute, they shouldn't have been feeding her soft food from a jar. The kid had teeth and she should have been feeding herself or trying to.

I could imagine a man (or really a person) with no kid experience not knowing what to feed.  Also movies tend to even show fathers with experience as idiots...like they can't figure out how a diaper works.

[SingleMaltBlonde]

1 hour ago, anna0852 said:

How much should he whitewash and how much should be blunt truth? Is Tali an Israeli citizen? An American? Dual? 

Dual.  Even had she not been born in Israel (which is implied) her mother being Jewish means she is Jewish per doctrine and regardless of where she was born has the right of return and citizenship before the whole grandpa and mom were hero's in Mossad.  I think if she maintains Israeli citizenship she will be required to serve in the military.

If her father is a US citizen she is...I would suggest a Constitutional scholar to see  she is eligible to be President.

1 hour ago, buckboard said:

When Tali said "Kelev," Tony and his father said, "Oh, her stuffed toy is named Caleb."

Tony said Kelev is Hebrew for Dog.

Overall I will admit to wanting a cheesy Tony and Ziva off into the sunset so barring that I'll take a cute kid.  I don't buy that she wouldn't tell him...they both had too many daddy issues for that.

Law enforcement has high turnover, so I believe he would leave because he was a single father.  Gibbs as the Energizer Bunny is a little harder to believe.

[Loves2Dance]

The only thing I liked about this episode is that Tony left the show with someone---he needed someone and the show gave him someone, even if it was a little more soap opera than I'd like. 

[Minneapple]

1 hour ago, Mama No Life said:

Still think Ziva's alive in Paris, though it doesn't make sense...just felt like there were too many hints otherwise.

I agree. Tali was perfectly safe and uninjured. All her things were perfectly ready to go including a perfectly framed, untouched photo of Ziva and Tony. Tony said, "Ziva loves Paris." Not loved, loves, and that seemed like really deliberate thing to say.

[binky101]

Agreed, Minneapple and Mama No, the Ziva-is-dead plot doesn't hold up well. I was thinking last night, while watching, "Why would Ziva create a safe room that was only large enough for Tali? Wouldn't she have run in there, or slept with her daughter in there, as a matter of course?" Granted, the Tony as single father storyline neatly works around C de P not coming back (for whatever reasons) for the season finale, and Tony envisioning himself as Tali's ONLY living parent then gives him the motivation to resign from NCIS and move on from the squad room, but the writing itself feels either sloppy or evasive.

And on an unrelated note, I loved Fornell's pedicure, along with his shock/ horror on waking up and seeing his toenails done up as watermelons. That was a nice little moment of levity, and kind of a reference to the episode where Fornell took Emily to some day spa/ mani=pedi place seasons ago.

[TexasTiffany]

16 minutes ago, Loves2Dance said:

The only thing I liked about this episode is that Tony left the show with someone---he needed someone and the show gave him someone, even if it was a little more soap opera than I'd like.

I thought of that, too. Tony wasn't leaving to go seek revenge. He wasn't leaving because some multiple murderer ended up being released by Vance for a technicality and Tony being so outraged that he turned in his badge. He wasn't forced out. He didn't leave for some disillusionment with circumstances. He wasn't going off alone. He left to raise his daughter and his dad was going with him. I loved that part of this story. It's a better reason than most.

On a side note, I've always loved that they got Robert Wagner to play Tony's dad. I wish they'd thought of it sooner and RW had been in more episodes. Loved the whole connection. Robert and Michael liked it, too. In an interview talking about the 2 actors being so much alike and Michael impersonating Robert's voice, Michael said RW turned to him and said he didn't know anymore if Michael was doing him or he was doing Michael.

If this had happened 10 years ago, I could have seen a Tony Sr. and Tony Jr. spinoff series. The two of them are just so likeable.

[KLovestoShop]

This ending leaves it possible for MW to return if his pilot isn't picked up.  Personally, I liked this episode. 

[Callietwo]

24 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

This ending leaves it possible for MW to return if his pilot isn't picked up.

This was from his live chat yesterday before the finale (slide 2) from CBS.com

About possible appearances in the future for MW

Quote

 

1. There's a chance DiNozzo could make an appearance in the future.

While we're saying goodbye to DiNozzo tonight, Michael said it may not completely be the end—because he's open to appearing as a guest star in the future. We'll raise our hats to that! 

 

Quote

 Personally, I liked this episode. 

It was better than some I guess (Castle & Good Wife are specifics) but that is not saying a lot.  I'm still pissed that they wrote Ziva having his kid and keeping that bit of information away from him.  Tony is a good man and didn't deserve that.  And to have the writers have Tony "understand" why she did that by having him say Ziva knew him better than he did himself or whatever that BS is still makes me annoyed.  But, in the end, I'm glad he left for something that should prove more positive in the end than revenge or relationship angst.  

Edited May 19, 2016 by Callietwo

[partofme]

I've seen about 2 episodes of NCIS since Ziva left and will never watch this episode.    I have never liked or trusted Gary Glassberg.

[statsgirl]

My hat's off to Gary Glasberg for pulling off an episode that was guaranteed not to be able to please everyone.

I watched the first season after Ziva left but I found that the show was too much stuck in the same place, in spite of Michael Weatherly talking about Tony's growth.  Maybe he saw it because he lived the character but all I saw was six men and two women stuck in the same place.

I came back for this because I wanted to see Tony's last episode, although I did with qualms knowing that Cote de Pablo hadn't been asked back.

I thought it was touching, and sweet, and it did show how Tony had grown.  MW did an amazing job.

I'm also very, very grateful that Tiva and the fact that Ziva loved Tony is now canon.  The Tiva/antiTiva war has been the worst thing about this fandom. I'm glad it's now canon so we're not going to fight about it any more, and that MW tweeted a picture of himself and CdP together while the episode was airing, putting to rest all the comments about how the NCIS team and CBS hated her for walking out.

On 5/18/2016 at 9:03 PM, Callietwo said:

I hated that this was all about Ziva.  Again.  It infuriates me that Ziva was pregnant with Tony's kid and she never felt that she needed to share that information with him.  It just makes me HATE Ziva and I mostly liked the character.  Infuriating!

Deanna Troi (I never can remember her Mossad name) told Tony that Ziva didn't want to tell him about the baby because she didn't want to disrupt his life any more than she already had.  (There are quite a few posters here who would have supported that decision.)  But as Tali grew older, she realized that Tony need to know, and she was just trying to figure out how to tell him when she was killed.

It's a neat little explanation for a problem that could not be solved.  They didn't want Tony to have a child in earlier seasons because then he would have been irrevocably tied to Ziva. But when MW decided to leave, they pulled the Magnum plot (a nice nod to Donald Bellisario) and had Tony leave NCIS for the sake of his daughter.  Ziva not wanting to upset his life at first, and then realizing she needs to tell him but killed before she can, is the best they could do for Ziva.

On 5/18/2016 at 9:12 PM, Mama No Life said:

I kind of thought they were hinting that he belived  Ziva was alive and waiting for him in Paris. But I guess that's because I don't carry about framed pics in my bags, lol....

.It was a very clever ending, Tony going to Israel "to look for some answers", because really, there are no more questions, Kort is dead and he paid a guy to do the bombing.. For those who hate Ziva, she's dead. But for those who like her, there's still a chance.  In my daughtger's head canon (a Tiva shipper), Ziva was knocked unconscious in the bombing and when she came to, Tali had already left for the US so Ziva decided to hide out till it was safe to come out.  Tony will find her and all three will go to Paris.

As I said, it was an episode that was almost impossible to make everyone happy, and I think they came as close as it was possible to come.

[Minneapple]

54 minutes ago, KLovestoShop said:

This ending leaves it possible for MW to return if his pilot isn't picked up.  Personally, I liked this episode. 

His show has been ordered to series, in fact it's set for that Tuesday 9 pm. timeslot after NCIS in the fall. I don't know if he'd return should his new show be canceled, but I think it sets up nicely for him AND Cote to return for the series finale. Although, Cote doesn't seem too keen on returning. I dunno. Maybe she'd do it for the series finale?

(HAHAHA as if NCIS will ever end. I'll die of old age before that happens.)

And, for the complaints that Tony's coworkers didn't show enough emotion, I'm actually glad they didn't. I hate when a character's leaving leads to overwrought goodbyes. He didn't die, he'll probably stop into the office or Gibbs' basement next month. Maybe Gibbs can show Tali how to build a canoe or something.

[betsyboo]

12 hours ago, camussie said:

I don't question that Tony loved Ziva.  Pathetic as it was he actually loved her despite that the fact that she seemed to disdain him most of the time.  Not to mention that she accused him of murder in a report she submitted to NCIS because she was too stupid to realize her boyfriend had gone rogue.  I question Abby's contention that Ziva loved Tony.  If Ziva loved Tony she wouldn't have kept his child from him and no questioning whether he was ready to leave the danger behind is not a good enough excuse.  

For that matter it is a completely false construct that Tony couldn't be both an NCIS agent and a father.  Ziva had no right to make that choice for Tony and the fact that she did tells me she didn't love him at all despite what Abby claimed.  

I do agree with this. I've always felt like she treated him like crap.

[anna0852]

8 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

.It was a very clever ending, Tony going to Israel "to look for some answers", because really, there are no more questions, Kort is dead and he paid a guy to do the bombing.. For those who hate Ziva, she's dead. But for those who like her, there's still a chance.  In my daughtger's head canon (a Tiva shipper), Ziva was knocked unconscious in the bombing and when she came to, Tali had already left for the US so Ziva decided to hide out till it was safe to come out.  Tony will find her and all three will go to Paris.

As I said, it was an episode that was almost impossible to make everyone happy, and I think they came as close as it was possible to come.

Let your daughter know I'm joining her in that headcannon. What answers could Tony be looking for? And why say Ziva "loves" Paris? That seemed to be a little too deliberate. And that body identification seemed a little too quick. The fire was barely out and someone has already matched dentals or DNA? I'm choosing to believe that Ziva temporarily faked her death. That mortar attack seemed to come out of nowhere, maybe she's gone to ground to figure out who went after her and figured Tali is safe with Tony. If she doesn't know it was Kort, then she probably wouldn't know that Tony was a target too.

[anna0852]

8 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

His show has been ordered to series, in fact it's set for that Tuesday 9 pm. timeslot after NCIS in the fall. I don't know if he'd return should his new show be canceled, but I think it sets up nicely for him AND Cote to return for the series finale. Although, Cote doesn't seem too keen on returning. I dunno. Maybe she'd do it for the series finale?

(HAHAHA as if NCIS will ever end. I'll die of old age before that happens.)

And, for the complaints that Tony's coworkers didn't show enough emotion, I'm actually glad they didn't. I hate when a character's leaving leads to overwrought goodbyes. He didn't die, he'll probably stop into the office or Gibbs' basement next month. Maybe Gibbs can show Tali how to build a canoe or something.

He's not going off to war. He's not dying. I don't think he's permanently leaving DC. Both Israel and Paris sounded like trips, not a move. They all have phones and email and skype. I think it was the right level of emotion, given that that they will *see him again very easily*. They just won't be working together.

The door to see both Tony and Ziva again was left wide open in my opinion.

[camussie]

Quote

I'm also very, very grateful that Tiva and the fact that Ziva loved Tony is now canon

Ziva telling Abby she loved Tony is canon but since her definition of love included not telling him he had a child for "reasons" I would argue that she didn't love him at all and/or her definition of love is truly twisted beyond recognition.   Twisted because love include respect and Ziva died showing she didn't respect Tony.  To me that means there is still debate about whether she truly loved him by any sort of reasonable definition of love.  

I also am bugged by the idea that he needed to grow to become a father while Ziva was ready for motherhood from day 1.  After all when confronted with the choice to go off on his own and take Kort out he made the right choice unlike Ziva who did exactly that to avenge her father's death.  And in the process took down the entire MCRT with her.  

Quote

Deanna Troi (I never can remember her Mossad name) told Tony that Ziva didn't want to tell him about the baby because she didn't want to disrupt his life any more than she already had.  (There are quite a few posters here who would have supported that decision.)  But as Tali grew older, she realized that Tony need to know, and she was just trying to figure out how to tell him when she was killed

The Mossad director had barely had any contact with Ziva.  I can buy that Ziva might have mentioned in passing she was contemplating it but those are just words.  The fact remains that Ziva decided Tony wasn't ready to be a father while she was ready to be a mother.  At least Glasburg kept her in character to the end.  She always did think she was better than Tony despite all evidence to the contrary.  

As for Ziva not disrupting Tony's life, as much as I never wanted then to have a romancm he deserved to know he had a child.  

Edited May 19, 2016 by camussie

[statsgirl]

19 hours ago, Bobbin said:

What we like or don't like, want or don't want for Tony is irrelevant -- just like real life. Speaking of which, I knew a family whose unmarried, 20-something son was killed in a car accident. A few weeks later, his siblings told their parents that there was something their son hadn't wanted them to know because he was afraid they would be disappointed in him:  he had a little girl, thereafter grandpa's pride and joy. Why shouldn't we be happy for Tony? And his good fortune to have his father to help.

I know someone whose only child, a son, died tragically.  She mourned him terribly.  A couple of years afterwards, a young woman came to her and told her that she had a grandson (the son never knew).  The grandparents are thrilled..

15 hours ago, Ina123 said:

A bomb exploded with a resulting fire. A child was rescued from a bedroom in the home. Yet, someone was able to collect personal items to send with the child. None of it wet or damaged by water. Dad grabs scarf and has memories of his long, lost love. Strange. I would have thought it would have smelled like soot from a fire.

I assumed it was Tali's "bug out" bag, a bag you have packed with the essentials (medication, extra eye glasses, prescriptions, identity information, clothes etc) in case you need to leave in a hurry.  After the fires in Fort McMurray last week, where 90,000 people had to leave suddenly, I'm preparing a bag for each of my family members.

Living in Israel, I would assume that Ziva would have one for herself and another for Tali.  It wouldn't be unusual for her to put that picture in Tali's in case anything happened to her.

11 hours ago, BookWitch said:

So what if Ziva hadn't died? Would she ever have told him?

Orli explained that Ziva was trying to figure out how to tell Tony when she was killed.

[Ohmo]

2 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I'm also very, very grateful that Tiva and the fact that Ziva loved Tony is now canon.  The Tiva/antiTiva war has been the worst thing about this fandom. I'm glad it's now canon so we're not going to fight about it any more, and that MW tweeted a picture of himself and CdP together while the episode was airing, putting to rest all the comments about how the NCIS team and CBS hated her for walking out.

Got news for you, but that fight has not ended.  By all accounts, I'd expected the pro-Tiva fans to be utterly thrilled now that they got their canon, but I've seen plenty of pro-Tiva comments from around the Net where plenty of Tiva supporters are still upset that they didn't get "a happy family" ending.  (Gag me.) 

As to the picture that Michael tweeted, I think they may be a difference between Michael and Cote's friendship and what CBS thinks of her.  One doesn't necessarily have anything to do with the other.  Not that I'm saying CBS hates her, but I don't know if they think about her that much.  This quote from GG seems to point toward a distinction between Ziva the character and Cote the actress, and in this case, there seemed to be a further distinction between Ziva and Tali in terms of focus

Quote

TVLINE | Cote de Pablo of course recently said some things indicating, at the very least, that she was approached about returning in-person for the finale. Do you want to clear the air about what was or was not in play?
When we came up with this child storyline, there was never specifically a conversation about Cote coming back this season, so we just proceeded along those lines — that we would probably use flashbacks and do the things that you actually saw. Once we came up with this storyline, once it was all about the daughter, that was the storyline we stuck with. To this day, we believe that the correct choice was really focusing on this little girl, the love that Tony develops for this little girl, and what she represents to him as family and as the living part of his relationship with Ziva.

NCIS Boss Talks DiNozzo's 'Enormously Significant' Reason for Leaving, Ziva's (Alive?) Fate and More Burning Qs

[brgjoe]

Put me down in the HATED the way they wrote MW off the show.

In the episode before (and pretty much the end of that episode, no less), they just suddenly bring Ziva into the storyline.  Why?  It's not like we have seen Tony pining over her in recent times any longer.  And in this episode, we find that out now that only is Ziva dead (apparently) but she had a kid.  A kid that her and Tony conceived in Paris(?)  To me this felt like something that was poorly slapped together -- soap opera style -- for someone that basically just informed he was leaving the show.  Rather than a thing that was known for months (as was the case with MW).

Ziva loved Tony?  Really?  I always felt she treated him like crap.  And this child that she didn't tell Tony about?  Well, I guess that is pretty much in line with her character traits.  And I hated the "Ziva felt she didn't need a man to complete her..." line.  Oh shut up!  This isn't about "completing you".  It's about a child who had a right to know her dad and the father having the right to know his child.  If I was Tony, I would be really, REALLY pissed off with her.

I really wanted Tony to ride off with a promotion and head up his own team.  But instead we get him being "Mr. Dad".  Not that there is anything wrong with it.  But he's now leaving his career where he has passed up promotions in the past, abruptly, for a child we didn't even know about until this episode aired.  Just way too out of left field for me.  Oh well, at least he didn't die in the shootout or something.

I also felt the goodbye's were a bit weak.  I guess I would expect Gibbs to be halfway stoic.  But I thought McGee's reaction could have been more emotional as well.  A hardy handshake?  Really?  I did like the touch though of the picture of Tony and Kate amongst Tony's possessions as he was leaving the office though.

It just felt too rushed.  And too much of Ziva and not enough DiNozzo for me, considering it was his last episode on the show after all this time. 

[rur]

8 hours ago, brgjoe said:

And in this episode, we find that out now that only is Ziva dead (apparently) but she had a kid.  A kid that her and Tony conceived in Paris(?)  

No … The picture was (supposedly) from the time they were in Paris quite a few seasons back. (When they both told folks the other one slept on the couch).

The child was conceived when Tony went to Israel after Ziva's father's death. That was his line about the "farewell" when he was talking to McGee.

ETA:

 I understand the show runner's comments about the kind of event that would be needed to force Tony to leave NCIS, and I think Tony's (family) backstory kind of painted the creative team into a corner in some ways. I"ll admit that I was hoping for a Tiva reunion, so I was satisfied with the ending, but I wish their resolution* had been more creative and didn't have me yelling "Magnum!" at my television the minute his daughter appeared on the screen. 

 

* the title of Magnum's final episode

Edited May 19, 2016 by rur

[honeydo7]

Similiar yes, but Lily, the adorable French-speaking child & her mother Michelle, the wife Thomas believed was killed in Vietnam, appeared in several episodes, of Magnum, PI prior to the series finale. Throughout this story-arc, Magnum went back & forth about Lily being his, but wasn't sure until Michelle told him the truth, before she died in a car bombing......like Gibb's wife & daughter.

[statsgirl]

12 hours ago, Ohmo said:

As to the picture that Michael tweeted, I think they may be a difference between Michael and Cote's friendship and what CBS thinks of her. 

CBS not only hired CdP to star in The Dove Keepers, they sent her around to do publicity for it.  There's nothing to indicate that CBS is down on her (in fact they said they didn't), and no comments from anyone on the NCIS creative team other than David McCallum to suggest that anyone has a problem with the actress.

As I said, it was a situation where it was impossible to please everyone.  I'm not surprised that viewers at the either end of the curve were unhappy (Tiva supporters wanted them to reunite and leave the show together; Ziva haters are angry that she was even mentioned much less Tiva made canon).   I think they did a very good job.  As both GG and MW said, it had to be something huge to get Tony to leave the team when he'd turned down promotions in order to stay with Gibbs (we have to remember MW wanted to be off the show)  To quote GG:

NCIS Boss Talks DiNozzo's 'Enormously Significant' Reason for Leaving, Ziva's (Alive?) Fate and More Burning Qs

Quote

TVLINE | How far into the process of breaking this story did you latch onto the Tali idea?
That was pretty early on. We knew all along that we had to come up with something enormously significant, that would make Tony leave his NCIS family….

TVLINE | To give him the push he’s needed for perhaps more years than he’d admit.
Yeah, yeah. And the only thing that we could come up with was this idea of someone for whom he was suddenly responsible. Even if it was a relationship or being in love with someone, that reason wasn’t enough. It literally had to be a child. We started talking about that very early on, and we started to do a little research and have conversations with agents, law enforcement officers who are single parents. We asked them, “Does it change your perspective when you go to work and strap on your sidearm every day, knowing who is waiting for you at home?” And it absolutely does. So it started to make sense to us. And then in talking to Michael, talking with the other writers, the other producers, this was the direction we decided to go.

It's the same idea of the Magnum ending, that there has to be a real reason to change the dangerous life of his current job, and being a single father and having the responsibility to make sure that he does go home every night, is a great one. For Magnum it was taking a desk job, for Tony it's leaving law enforcement and looking for something less dangerous.

There are few things that turn your life around as much as being a parent.  When I was pregnant, a barbeque on the patio where I was standing caught fire.  Ordinarily my instinct would be to put it out but being pregnant, I forced myself to hold back for the sake of the baby and let others handle it.

Creatively, I think this is a much stronger ending with more personal growth than either leaving for his own team or bringing Ziva back

Quote

TVLINE | And Michael was on board with the idea?
Michael is a total pro and was on board and working with us…. There was tremendous conversation back and forth about nuances of dialogue and specific moments and lines that were chosen. This was absolutely a group process, and we came at it not only trying to satisfy our own needs but Michael’s needs, the other cast members’ needs and the viewers’ needs as well.

.....

TVLINE | One of the reasons I ask is because Ducky said no remains were found, Tony used the present-tense “Ziva loves Paris,” and then, “You gotta believe what you gotta believe”…. You seemed to lay the foundation for the theory that Ziva is in fact alive.
Again, we put tremendous time into choosing some of the dialogue Tony says. I would say to stick with, “You gotta believe what you gotta believe!”

TVLINE | That would certainly give you a juicy sweeps storyline for some future date!
Welcome to my brain!

I really think Tiva shippers don't have anything to complain about.

[anna0852]

If Ziva was going to name a child after a deceased family member , then Tony should consider himself lucky it was a girl! Can you imagine him dealing with an Ari or an Eli?

 

That quote from GG tells me Ziva is only dead until they choose for her not to be. No doors are closed until Ducky does the autopsy! 

[camussie]

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Ziva haters are angry that she was even mentioned much less Tiva made canon

That is not what annoys me as I always thought they slept together during that summer Gibbs was gone.  What annoys me is that yet again Ziva screwed Tony over and yet again everyone, including Tony, is okay with it because it is Ziva.  I still don't know what she has done to earn such loyalty from the team and especially Tony.  And it annoys me even more that they used Abby as the exposition queen to try and paper over the fact that Ziva screwed Tony over.  If the show wanted me to believe Ziva loved Tony they shouldn't have written her the way they did for most of her run on the show and they especially shouldn't have written Ziva keeping his child from him.  And no her telling Orli she intended to tell Tony does not count.  He deserved to know from day 1.

As for why Tony left as I said above I am happy he decided to take his own path instead of becoming a Gibbs clone.  He has needed to do that for a long while.  

Quote

And I hated the "Ziva felt she didn't need a man to complete her..." line.  Oh shut up!  This isn't about "completing you".  It's about a child who had a right to know her dad and the father having the right to know his child.  

Exactly.  Ziva needing a man is beside the point because Ziva and her daughter were not a package deal.  Tony could be a father to Tali without being in a romance with Ziva.  Millions of parents do it every day.  

Edited May 19, 2016 by camussie

[HawaiiTVGuy]

I never saw the ending of "Magnum" that others have referred to earlier (I am assuming that is Magnum, P.I.) but it would be very appropriate that Tony DiNozzo's exit would parallel that of a show like Magnum, P.I.

[HurricaneVal]

I haven't watched this episode yet, but I am definitely not a delicate spoiler-phobic flower so I have read this thread through.

And all I can say (which I already said in the speculation thread) was:

I CALLED IT!!!!!

As I also said there, I speculated on the most cliche-ridden, trope-filled, lamest, fanfic-iest plot line for Tony's exit as I could think of, all while thinking there's no way the writers could be this bad.  As it turns out, it came true.  Sorry.  Truly, truly sorry.

Here's my speculation post from 11 May 2016:

On 5/12/2016 at 5:44 PM, HurricaneVal said:

Here's my sappy cliche trope-filled speculation for Tony's exit:  Ziva and Tony had a secret sexual/emotional relationship before she went back to Israel.  She got pregnant, but did not tell Tony, and that was why she broke it off with him even after he went to Israel to bring her back.  Ziva dies in the terrorist attack, but the child lives.  Ziva's best friend, whom we saw in Israel during the farewell to Ziva, tracks Tony down to tell him of his secret child.  Tony quits NCIS to be a father to his child--thus fulfilling the series long "Daddy-issues" theme.

 

I just can't believe they did it.

[honeydo7]

Hawaii TV Guy: Here's hoping when MH & CBS decide to end NCIS, we discover Gibb's daughter Kelly survived the car bombing (just like Magnum's child) but the feds thought the best way to keep her safe was to put her into witness protection.  Now grown, her life is complete. She has a husband, friends, kids, a job she loves & hobbies....but after seeing her dad in a national tv news story, about NCIS she decides it's time they are reunited.

[Julia]

I thought that Gibbs was relieved that Tony, who distanced himself from feeling as badly as Gibbs did, found something to care about and got out alive.

[willowk]

Quote

He's not going off to war. He's not dying. I don't think he's permanently leaving DC. Both Israel and Paris sounded like trips, not a move. They all have phones and email and skype. I think it was the right level of emotion, given that that they will *see him again very easily*. They just won't be working together.

The door to see both Tony and Ziva again was left wide open in my opinion

Good points. I was thinking this morning that its a good thing MW decided to leave now, otherwise Tony would have spent who knows how many more years as a single agent, at loose ends, looking for love and not quite finding it. Now his story has moved forward, he has a kid, and those that wish too may think he finds Ziva at some point. Its possible she wasn't there, that she had left Tali with someone for a short period. And there could be something else going on that is causing her to stay underground. They can contort this pretty easily. I watched soap operas for years and have seen people brought back from the dead that were way more certainly dead than Ziva.

[GHScorpiosRule]

My new job doesn't allow me to come on the site, so I haven't been able to quote as I would like. 

It's no secret that I loathe the character of Ziva.  And it's also true I'm not up to speed, if you will, about all the insults that are gender based, so when I called Ziva a twat, it wasn't because she's a woman, if that makes sense. I also called her a piece of shit. Which I think she is. Why, why Tony would even love her after all the crap she's pulled, is way beyond my understanding.

So, Glasshit saying that they loved each other now makes it show canon because he said so? I'm not buying it, beause I didn't see it. 

Also, although I hate Ziva and detest her, I didn't want her dead, so, no, I'm not happy. I'm not happy they decided to take the soap opera road to write out Tony's exit. Michael Weatherly deserved better. Ziva took SO MUCH of Tony, to the point where, he, who knew how to speak Spanish, but once Ziva came aboard, he was a moron who could only made to be look the buffoon. What I liked about the dynamic between Kate and Tony, was their one upmanship--she got a few over on him, and he was able to win over her. And there was no sexual or romantic angst.  Yet, he was still shown to be a competent agent.

And I guess, all the years where he was uncomfortable with kids, and how kids hated him, or held him in contempt, never happened, because he's got his own child now.  Well, there was that one kid, who liked him.  His father was killed on the golf course or something.  And the ONLY time Tony was shown to be competent and growth was the fourth season--the year, where Ziva thought she had a right to know every.fucking.thing about Tony and his personal life. And then had the gall to tell him what to do or say to Jeanne when it all imploded.

So, no. I'm not happy. I'm never going to be happy that Tony's decision to leave had to do with that know it all, smug, superior character that always thought she was better than Tony.

Edited May 24, 2016 by GHScorpiosRule

[statsgirl]

I rewatched (first time in years) and I can see why Michael Weatherly was so excited about this episode.  I think he got to do more genuine acting than he had the chance to do the previous 13 years, the denial, the hope, the anger, the feelings of being cheated before learning that Tali did know he was her father, and finally deciding that he's got to believe what he's got to believe..    It's too bad they decided to wait till he was leaving to finally let Tony grow up.  (Tony's endless frat boy pranks was one of the things that turned me off eventually.)

I guess it's true that actors who have children love the chance to play a father (even if it's barely there as it was for Stephen Amell on Arrow).  He really had a good rapport with those twins.

But no episode is perfect and I'm really bugged by the bankers box that Tony puts his things in when he packed up his desk.  You see the box on his desk, fully packed including with Kate's picture, with the lid on the bottom, and then he picked it up by the handholds at the top and the lid stayed attached to the bottom, clearly glued.  Then when he said goodbye to McGee and Ellie, he held the box in one hand so that it was tipped, and carried it like that to the elevator.  Props had clearly glued everything in because there's no way he could have carried it like that without everything falling out.  Such a stupid thing to do and pulled me right out of the tearful goodbyes.

Edited May 20, 2016 by statsgirl

[DrScottie]

On 5/19/2016 at 10:11 PM, Minneapple said:

(HAHAHA as if NCIS will ever end. I'll die of old age before that happens.)

Exactly. It's been the most watched scripted show of this decade. It ends when Mark Harmon says it ends (or dies)  You can't have NCIS without Gibbs. 

[snuffles]

Quote

ALso, how unfathomable it seemed to me to have the new Mossad Director arrive in DC with the child of a former operative which she hadn't seen in a year before her death, and take the kid from the smoking remains of her house in Israel straight to a federal building in the US, to be paraded in front of a man learning of her existence and responsability to her and a bunch of strangers??

The young toddler had no injuries from the fire or smoke. Is then dragged the next day half way across the world to a foreign country. Mossad knew Tony would be coming to Isreal. Mossad thought the better thing for Tali was to bring her to strangers who spoke a different language? Tali displays no stranger or separation anxiety and no sleep deprivation. This kid is definitely Ziva's kid cuz she's superhuman :)

I thought the unintentionally funny part was when the Mossad director said bring in Tali and everyone is surprised and shocked. These are supposed to be top notch investigators and agents. NO ONE noticed the Mossad team bringing a young toddler in a stroller through security or waiting outside Vance's office?

I would have loved seeing Tony and Senior attempting to change Tali's diaper. Raising kids on TV is always so much easier than real life.

[anna0852]

2 hours ago, snuffles said:

The young toddler had no injuries from the fire or smoke. Is then dragged the next day half way across the world to a foreign country. Mossad knew Tony would be coming to Isreal. Mossad thought the better thing for Tali was to bring her to strangers who spoke a different language? Tali displays no stranger or separation anxiety and no sleep deprivation. This kid is definitely Ziva's kid cuz she's superhuman :)

I thought the unintentionally funny part was when the Mossad director said bring in Tali and everyone is surprised and shocked. These are supposed to be top notch investigators and agents. NO ONE noticed the Mossad team bringing a young toddler in a stroller through security or waiting outside Vance's office?

I would have loved seeing Tony and Senior attempting to change Tali's diaper. Raising kids on TV is always so much easier than real life.

I was just wondering that! The few words we hear her say are in Hebrew. How much English does she speak, if any?

I'm seriously wondering who demonstrated that first diaper change. I'm guessing Jimmy. It's not as intuitive as you think, especially on a wiggly toddler. I'm also guessing Jimmy was the source of a rapidly borrowed high chair and probably a pack-n-play for Tali to sleep in.

The more I think about how Tali was brought over, the more I think Ziva is still alive. There was no mention of any sort of burial or grave, no mention of needing to settle her estate for Tali, no mention of having matched dentals or DNA. And Orli dodged Tony's 'are you sure she's dead?' question pretty neatly. Plus, what answers is he looking for in Israel if Kort is dead and the threat is gone? 

[windfall]

I find it hard to believe that anyone is actually dead until we see a body being lowered into the ground and even then I wouldn't put it past the writers to come up with some shenanigans. I think I'll just be grateful that Tony got a decently optimistic sendoff instead of getting killed in some spectacular fashion.

[Goldmoon]

I was highly disappointed that Tony didn't request a DNA test.  He's just going to take someone's word for it?

[cincivic]

I have watched this season ink sporadically. I saw one episode with Tony's ex, Jeanne and her new episode. Did she die later in the season?

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 minute ago, cincivic said:

I have watched this season ink sporadically. I saw one episode with Tony's ex, Jeanne and her new episode. Did she die later in the season?

No.

[statsgirl]

I rarely comment on the writing of NCIS episodes, mostly because it all seems the same.  Michael Weatherly's leaving gave them the opportunity to give him some well-deserved growth and they really did a good job in this episde

From Tony's tension when hearing about the bombing, to his exchange wtih Senior ("I'm a wreck." "You're a rock.") which showed volumes about how far their relationship has come, to his denial to Gibbs that he felt anything more for Ziva than any other member of the team did (with desk-pounding), to the shock of Tali, to the scene with Jimmy, feeding Tali and thinking that his life won't change now, to the park bench with McGee, upset that Tali didn't know  him and speaking of Ziva in the past tense, to the scene with the picture of Ima and Abba, realizing that Tali did know him as her father when everything shifts and he's all in to take care of Tali even at the expense of his NCIS career and move to speaking of Ziva in the present tense because "a man's gotta believe what he's gotta believe."

Well done, Michael Weatherly and NCIS writers.

ETA:

Quote

I saw one episode with Tony's ex, Jeanne and her new episode. Did she die later in the season?

At the end of her second episode, Tony says something about wishing they had left it as they parted at the end of the previous one and Jeanne replies that she wishes they had left it even earlier.

Edited May 30, 2016 by statsgirl

[catray]

Wow, I just finished this episode and... Wow. I have a lot of mixed emotions. There are both some great and terrible things about it. I'm honestly not sure how I feel about the whole Tony and Ziva have a kid and she never told him (actually, I'll be honest, I don't love it) and I'm not really sure how I feel about this being MW's exit but it is what it is at this point. 

MW acted the hell out the scene in squad room with Gibbs; I didn't cried when they told Tony that Ziva was dead but I did start to crying during this scene. Wonderfully acted. I also highly enjoyed the Tony and Tali scenes- very cute! I have to admit, I cried ugly tears when MW starts the voiceover at the end and handed in his badge and gun. No more very special agent Tony DiNozzo. 

Now for my personal crazy: I don't buy Ziva being dead. No body, lalalala you can't make me. I refuse. Whatever you feel about the character, this was a crappy way to end the character (if she's actually dead [she's totally not]). 

Lastly, love Fornell's watermelon pedicure!

Next season just isn't going to be the same... 

[camussie]

Just re-watched this from my DVR to see if my view changed over the summer and nope - I still hate that Tony's exit had so much to do with Ziva even as I liked that he chose his own path and even as I think that the writers finally did a good job of showing that senior truly loved and supported Tony.  A few points on other posts

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I think he got to do more genuine acting than he had the chance to do the previous 13 years, the denial, the hope, the anger, the feelings of being cheated before learning that Tali did know he was her father, and finally deciding that he's got to believe what he's got to believe..    It's too bad they decided to wait till he was leaving to finally let Tony grow up.  (Tony's endless frat boy pranks was one of the things that turned me off eventually.

MW got to do all of that and more in season 4, some episodes in season 5, the final arc in season 6, in "Truth or Consequences " in season 7 and far too few episodes since then.  Still that horrible write-off for Tony wasn't the first time MW got to stretch his acting muscles.   Also, Tony had long passed the stage of being just a frat boy.  In the past couple of years he was a genuinely good mentor to Bishop and a supportive friend to McGee,  The issue with his writing in the past 4-5 years wasn't that he wasn't a grown up, it was that he was treated as practically a non-entity by the writers.  It also still astounds me that the writers decided that Ziva, she who threw people over ships in a quest for revenge, was grown up enough to raise a child but Tony wasn't.  

Quote

And I guess, all the years where he was uncomfortable with kids, and how kids hated him, or held him in contempt, never happened, because he's got his own child now.  Well, there was that one kid, who liked him.  His father was killed on the golf course or something

Tony still had some issues with Tali  (like not knowing what to feed her) but I can buy that he wasn't repelled by her like he was other children.  After all that was his child and Tony is the type of character who had a profound sense of responsibility and a heart full of love so of course he was going to take to his daughter right away.

Quote

I'm also very, very grateful that Tiva and the fact that Ziva loved Tony is now canon

I still don't see how this is canon.  It is canon that Ziva told Abby she loved Tony.  I can buy that Ziva believed she did but as Ziva didn't respect Tony it is very much debatable whether Ziva's definition of love is really love.  

Finally a couple of things that would have made this episode more acceptable

• If they had a plan for Tony after Tel Aviv and Paris.  Like him saying I am taking a leave of absence to go to Israel and Paris to find some answers and then when I come back I am going to move to Georgia to teach at FLETC.  
• If Gibbs wasn't such a jackhole about telling Tony to go home when he thought Ziva was dead.  No need for him to threaten Tony's job when Gibbs himself has gone off the rails much worse than that when things got personal
• If Gibbs more emotion in the goodbye scene.  Even better if they had him reference something about Tony getting the chance to raise his daughter that Gibbs never had and he is proud of Tony choosing a different road than Gibbs.

Edited September 26, 2016 by camussie

[marina to]

On 5/18/2016 at 8:03 PM, Minneapple said:

I agree. Tali was perfectly safe and uninjured. All her things were perfectly ready to go including a perfectly framed, untouched photo of Ziva and Tony. Tony said, "Ziva loves Paris." Not loved, loves, and that seemed like really deliberate thing to say.

Just watched a rerun of this episode and note how many times Tony asks for the proof of her death and no one ever answers it. He knows she faked her death and knows where she is. The rest is all a cover.