S01.E11: Election Day

[formerlyfreedom]

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Willa tells Claire an awful secret just as the election results are announced; Agent Clements tries to convince Jane to free him; Ben shares shocking news with Willa; Bridey contemplates using the dirt she's dug up on Warrens to make the front page; Nina strives to get Doug to confess. Meanwhile, flashbacks chronicle Hank's fall to social pariah.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by kariyaki
changed description

[Major Bigtime]

Ben's real momma is revealed, Claire plotting what she'll do to Ben, FBI guy wants his thumbs removed, and Hank's off his injections. This is not going to end well.

[Suzywriter]

Ok, I am losing patience with this tortured plot! 

[LoveLeigh]

This show is beyond ridiculous already. It'a all Red herrings, cliffhangers, teasers and dead ends all designed to get an audience to return each week for more of no answers and nothing.  

This show deserves to be canceled, it is beyond frustrating. 

What even happened in tonight's episode? Was there any content? 

[Madding crowd]

Having Ben's mom suddenly appear was just too coincidental. I am still convinced Ben is innocent and that Pocky has some hold over him. It's possible he is holding Adam somewhere but I find it hard to believe Ben wouldn't just tell someone if that is the case. On top of that, how many bunkers can the guy have?

 

The part with cutting off the FBI guy's thumb was really gory. I hope for some kind of happy ending for him. I still don't know why Hank is even in the picture unless he is going to somehow sacrifice himself at the end to get at Pocky. Claire's scenes were well done, especially the end with her sitting against the door. 

[editorgrrl]

19 minutes ago, Madding crowd said:

Having Ben's mom suddenly appear was just too coincidental.

But it wasn't a coincidence. In the parking lot, Bridey told someone on the phone (probably her editor) that she had landed Ben's mother. Just like with Danny at the bar.

[Madding crowd]

I meant for the storyline in general. It would be very difficult for her to find out who a foster child had once belonged to and if it was so easy for her, why didn't the mother know where her son was? Bridey doesn't seem all that smart to me so it was a leap for me. A child that was taken away at two years old would have closed records at least until an adoption was made or he was returned to his parent. You cannot just look up the names of fostered kids. Mostly, I just find it too much of a surprise moment which this show has too many of. 

[izabella]

I'm having a hard time imagining why Ben didn't identify Doug as his captor, and why he's keeping his secrets.  Brainwashing?  Blackmail?

I could have done without the gore. 

[thuganomics85]

I got the sense that they were trying to say that the only reason Ben didn't identify Doug is because he worried Doug will rat out who he really (a.k.a. not Adam.)  I guess that could explain why he said he actually wanted the cops to kill Doug episodes ago.  But I still think something has to come out of all these conversations between the two of them we don't see, so who knows what is going on, here?

Of course, Claire ends up winning the election with ease, apparently.  They didn't even try to make Lang be any real threat, despite getting Grant Show for the role.  I guess the question now is will she be able to keep it together now that Willa told her Ben "killed" Adam.  Did Ben establish he killed him?  He did say he hurt him, but Willa is making it sound like Ben murdered him or something.  I had just assumed it was some kind of accident, even if he was jealous of Adam.

Not sure what the point of Hank's flashback was.  I guess him no longer taking the treatments means he is going to do something bad next week, but I still wonder if he really has a big part to play in any way.

Enjoyed the Danny and Willa scene, and when they started cracking up over her coming out to him.  It's nice when they act like normal siblings, and not the messed up individuals they have become.

I figured something was going down with Bridey and the waitress, but it didn't make it less boring.

Poor Clements looses a thumb, but he's still a prisoner.  I'm getting worried for him.  Especially if his fate is in the hands of Nina, who I really wouldn't put much stock in.

Next week is the finale, right? I wonder if they'll at least wrap it up, or if they are going to try to find some way to keep this going for another season.

[ElTVaddict]

Really?! How many bunkers does this guy have. Two episodes ago, Nina had to struggle down a ladder carrying a tray while pregnant. Then we see her ready to lift a trap door, while law enforcement was ready to lift a trap door. I know it was a psyche out, but darn the should have left the entrance to the dungeon the same, since the walls are the same in both places.

I agree this should be a one off like The Slap.

[Bobbin]

Ben was upfront about having a good thing going and not letting Willa take it away from him, taunting her by gleefully talking about his future home in the governor's mansion. I'm sure he'd rather stay with the Warrens than be returned to his waitress excon mother, who he hasn't known since he was two, even though she's more stable now than the Warren clan.

Danny's support of his sister was sweet and moving, but I wish Willa was more deserving of support, considering. I thought he was going to say that he knew about Ben.

It was cold of Willa to tell Claire that Ben killed Adam at all, let alone in the middle of Claire's election celebration, and since Willa doesn't know if Ben did actually kill Adam. Of course, if he did, that's a terrible burden to keep to herself, especially while being forced to live with Ben. But her thoughtless determination to break the news to Claire right at that moment reminds me of relatives who call you at 2:00 in the morning to share tragic news that could easily wait until the next day.

How is Clements handcuffed that he needs to cut off both thumbs to get free? Just one should do it. I didn't watch that scene -- I don't do gore anymore, and stopped watching shows that exploit it and news programs that air 911 calls.

It's unreasonable that Bridey could track down Ben's mother. Her only investigative skills are sex and betrayal.

If the writers are trying to hammer home the harm of a national sex offender registry, they're  wasting their breath. The Four Lads were wrong:  you CAN go to jail for what you're thinking.

In case no one's paying attention, this is more soap opera than miniseries. Of course they want you to keep watching. Whether they're successful enough for renwal or cable pickup remains to be scene. My guess: doubtful.

[Major Bigtime]

What was that show last year about a doctor being blackmailed by thugs that ended with a cliffhanger? It didn't get renewed and I don't think this one will either. Sloppy writing, especially this episode. I agree with all of you that Bridey would never have been able to find Ben's mom, nor Claire winning the election with ease.

[mertensia]

Poor Agent Clements. I want him to get back to his husband.

Ben's just creepy.

[Free]

8 hours ago, Suzywriter said:

Ok, I am losing patience with this tortured plot! 

The finale is next week, so hopefully they're not dumb enough to drag out any cliffhanger.

24 minutes ago, mertensia said:

Poor Agent Clements. I want him to get back to his husband.

Ben's just creepy.

Poor Clemens, he's probably the only sympathetic character this show actually has.

2 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

What was that show last year about a doctor being blackmailed by thugs that ended with a cliffhanger? It didn't get renewed and I don't think this one will either. Sloppy writing, especially this episode. I agree with all of you that Bridey would never have been able to find Ben's mom, nor Claire winning the election with ease.

The Mob Doctor?

4 hours ago, ElTVaddict said:

Really?! How many bunkers does this guy have. Two episodes ago, Nina had to struggle down a ladder carrying a tray while pregnant. Then we see her ready to lift a trap door, while law enforcement was ready to lift a trap door. I know it was a psyche out, but darn the should have left the entrance to the dungeon the same, since the walls are the same in both places.

I agree this should be a one off like The Slap.

It's a problem I've noted a while ago.  The show doesn't have enough material to warrant even lasting this long, there's too much padded out filler.  A tighter, more streamlined miniseries should've been the way to go.

[Tara]

Why couldn't Jane just call or go to the police? If she cuts Clements loose, he certainly will.

I agree, this plot is getting ridiculous.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Tara
incorrect name

[editorgrrl]

4 hours ago, Major Bigtime said:

What was that show last year about a doctor being blackmailed by thugs that ended with a cliffhanger? It didn't get renewed and I don't think this one will either. Sloppy writing, especially this episode.

Complications?  http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3410350/  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_(TV_series)

I'm not sure, as I gave up on that show pretty quickly—despite being a fan of Jason O'Mara. (I only started watching this show because of Rupert Graves.)

Maybe ABC wanted this show to be its version of Broadchurch (a whodunnit in a small town) or American Crime (with Andrew McCarthy rather than Timothy Hutton). But the writing's subpar.

[backformore]

How did the reporter find the waitress who was Ben's mom?  Was that ever explained?

[JapMo]

Can you imagine a waitress getting all up in your face like that broad did to Bridey?  And then for Bridey to show all this conscience now about sleeping with Danny and Willa?  Please, producers, there's no way you can redeem Bridey.  She's the most obnoxious character on the show, only second to Nina and I know no one else feels this way, but third comes Agent Clemons for me.  Really want this guy dead.  But c'mon...clipping off someone's thumbs?  And she did the first one lickity-split?  Can you imagine how hard that would be to cut through a bone like that?  It would have taken several tries and would have been anything but a clean cut.  Anyone who has ever cut up a chicken can attest to that. 

The waitress said her boyfriend took her kid.  Hmmmm...now where oh where could he have stashed the kid?  I still feel Jane is involved up to her neck in this, and after last night, I'm starting to think maybe Hank was also involved, too.  Show of hands....how many of you would just stand there like Claire did when Hank said he was also "watching" Adam and not slap the sh*t out of him?  Just the thought that he was leering at her kid should have made Claire want to beat his ass.

Loved the dialogue between Danny and Willa when he's saying "are you crying or are you laughing?"  That was so genuine...nice bit of writing.

[truthaboutluv]

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I am still convinced Ben is innocent and that Pocky has some hold over him.

Yeah the hold is that he will tell the police that Ben "killed" Adam, which is exactly what Willa deduced when Claire was asking her why Ben would lie and let the man who kidnapped him and Adam, go free. Of course, the obvious twist here is that Adam is not dead and so Ben never killed him. As I said last week, I'm convinced what happened is that Adam and Ben got into an argument over whatever (being trapped together for so long, that had to happen and in the flashbacks some episodes ago, we saw Adam get frustrated and snap at Ben over all his delusions), it maybe got physical and Ben accidentally shoved Adam, causing him to hit his head.

Adam probably seemed fine at first but then started getting a fever and getting really sick. Then Pocky finally took him out one day and came back and told Ben he did everything he could, therefore convincing Ben Adam was dead and it was his fault. A manipulative predator like Doug would realize how perfect an opportunity that was to further control Ben. So now Ben thinks he killed Adam and now Claire and Willa believe it as well, which will not end well for Ben in my opinion. They'll do something that they will end up regretting when we inevitably find out that Adam is very much still alive. 

I am clearly in the minority but I disagree that nothing happens on the show and it is just a lot of red herrings and dropped stuff. Many episodes did reveal more and more of the mystery. We found out who Ben really was very quickly in my opinion, we just as quickly found out that he was kidnapped with Adam, we found out about Willa's duplicity very quickly, the FBI guy zeroed in on Doug pretty quickly, etc. This is the first episode where I felt like nothing really happened and we're still in the same place.  Yeah this waitress showed up that Bridey seems to think is Ben's mom but I honestly didn't care much about that because I don't care about Bridey at all. That character is just really, really awful. 

I know everyone has stated that the possibility of a second season is unlikely but if by some miracle they do get one, the writers NEED to get rid of that character. 

[Suzywriter]

2 hours ago, Tara said:

Why couldn't Nina just call or go to the police? If she cuts Clements loose, he certainly will.

I agree, this plot is getting ridiculous.

Maybe you mean Jane? Nina is the cop who keeps messing up. Jane is Pocky's girlfriend who clobbered Clemons with a cast-iron pan.

[Suzywriter]

28 minutes ago, backformore said:

How did the reporter find the waitress who was Ben's mom?  Was that ever explained?

Oh please...writers...don't let Bridey be the hero who solves this whole mess by scaring up Ben's real mother who just happens to have dirt on Pocky. Please...please, don't let that be the unraveler!

Gotta admit, this show has me angry, outraged, and totally coming back begging for more, counting the 168 hours between episodes, and mad at myself foe doing it.

[Vivigirl10]

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Did Ben establish he killed him?  He did say he hurt him, but Willa is making it sound like Ben murdered him or something. 

Happy you brought this up.  The conversation Ben and Willa had was short and established nothing.  But Willa's taken it, without question, and run with Ben being Adam's murderer.  It's so stupid.....like much of this show.

I can't continue to watch the Agent Clements plot line.  Geesh, put the poor guy out of his misery.  I knew one way or another, he'd end up with no thumb(s) but wouldn't be any closer to freedom.  

When Nina dropped her cap under the table, as she was bending down I said to my husband, "oh look, here's some dirt from Pocky's shoe that will be so rare and specific that it will lead me to the exact plot of land that his cabin fortress is located on!"  This show alternates between making things so ridiculously easy and ridiculously hard.  I don't get it.

I was cheering when the skate boarding kid had on Pocky's jacket.  Anything that makes her look like a fool pleases me!

Even if you take away the pedophile part, it looks like Hank was still an odd duck.  Wondering why he went off his injections?

I guess I was the only one who hated the Willa/Danny scene where she came out.  Once again, something so totally out of line with the character they've established her to be.  That cold witch would never participate in such a conversation.  I don't think she's even come out to herself yet.   

[Bobbin]

Jane said there was no phone service out there, not cell or landline.

The waitress said it was Social Services that put her son in foster care when she went to jail. The question is, was Doug her boyfriend and Ben's father, as several viewers have speculated?

[Major Bigtime]

2 hours ago, editorgrrl said:

Complications?  http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3410350/  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_(TV_series)

I'm not sure, as I gave up on that show pretty quickly—despite being a fan of Jason O'Mara. (I only started watching this show because of Rupert Graves.)

Maybe ABC wanted this show to be its version of Broadchurch (a whodunnit in a small town) or American Crime (with Andrew McCarthy rather than Timothy Hutton). But the writing's subpar.

 

Yes, Complications, thank you. It reminds me so much of this show, or vice versa. Storylines that could never ever happen

[Tara]

Maybe you mean Jane? Nina is the cop who keeps messing up. Jane is Pocky's girlfriend who clobbered Clemons with a cast-iron pan.

Yes, thank you, I meant Jane, and changed it.  :)  

Even is there is no phone service, are they so far she can't walk anywhere?  It just seems like cutting off one's thumbs should be a last resort.  It's all just so ridiculous.

Edited May 9, 2016 by Tara

[Major Bigtime]

And, why thumbs? I thought the kidnappers cut off ears.

[editorgrrl]

3 minutes ago, Major Bigtime said:

And, why thumbs? I thought the kidnappers cut off ears.

Agent Clements asked Jane to snip off his thumbs so he could slip out of the handcuffs.

[designing1]

1 minute ago, editorgrrl said:

Agent Clements asked Jane to snip off his thumbs so he could slip out of the handcuffs.

If the issue was the width of his hand rather than the depth of the mound at the base of the thumb I'd personally rather lose the pinky and ring finger. Opposable thumbs = good thing to have.

Being too lazy to scan Netflix for something to watch last night, I had to choose between this show and 30 year old reruns of Family Ties. I went with the reruns. Seems like I made a wise choice.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, Bobbin said:

Jane said there was no phone service out there, not cell or landline.

If there is no phone service, how is the Agent supposed to stop the FBI from looking for him?  Isn't that what Jane said to him at the end? 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, Tara said:

Why couldn't Jane just call or go to the police? If she cuts Clements loose, he certainly will.

I agree, this plot is getting ridiculous.

I didn't understand that at first, thinking if Clements did get free, he was going to what.. run on foot with his thumbs?  Why didn't Jane just run for help?  Because someone needs to nurse the baby, I guess.  Though I think in her shoes I would take the baby and run for help.  How far could they be free from a road?  

1 hour ago, Kiki620 said:

Happy you brought this up.  The conversation Ben and Willa had was short and established nothing.  But Willa's taken it, without question, and run with Ben being Adam's murderer.  It's so stupid.....like much of this show.

I can't continue to watch the Agent Clements plot line.  Geesh, put the poor guy out of his misery.  I knew one way or another, he'd end up with no thumb(s) but wouldn't be any closer to freedom.  

When Nina dropped her cap under the table, as she was bending down I said to my husband, "oh look, here's some dirt from Pocky's shoe that will be so rare and specific that it will lead me to the exact plot of land that his cabin fortress is located on!"  This show alternates between making things so ridiculously easy and ridiculously hard.  I don't get it.

I was cheering when the skate boarding kid had on Pocky's jacket.  Anything that makes her look like a fool pleases me!

Even if you take away the pedophile part, it looks like Hank was still an odd duck.  Wondering why he went off his injections?

I guess I was the only one who hated the Willa/Danny scene where she came out.  Once again, something so totally out of line with the character they've established her to be.  That cold witch would never participate in such a conversation.  I don't think she's even come out to herself yet.   

No, you're not the only one who didn't like the coming out scene.  

I think Hank went off his injections after Nina assured him he would always be seen as a monster, period, end of story, no matter what he did or didn't do now or in the future.  

The one thing that impresses me each week is how old Andrew McCarthy looks vs. how young in the flashbacks.  Which is the more real one?  

I hate the continued depiction of a completely incompetent foster system, and the public acceptance of it being some normal thing.  "Oh, you're out of jail and want your kid back?  Sorry, we lost him.  Next!"  "Oh, it's ok, maybe I can have another someday.  I understand you don't keep records or anything.  That would be so hard, to keep oversight of a system set up to care for children without parents.  You'd need like a computer or something."

[marcee]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I hate the continued depiction of a completely incompetent foster system, and the public acceptance of it being some normal thing.  "Oh, you're out of jail and want your kid back?  Sorry, we lost him.  Next!"  "Oh, it's ok, maybe I can have another someday.  I understand you don't keep records or anything.  That would be so hard, to keep oversight of a system set up to care for children without parents.  You'd need like a computer or something."

Not to get into a long drawn out debate about this, but the sad thing is it's not that far from the truth (at least here in Florida)... the system is truly screwed up. Kids DO get lost. Terrible, abusive, repeat offenders DO get more foster kids and get PAID for it. It's a horrible, disgusting state of affairs. Granted, it's not like that everywhere and certainly there are competent employees - but honestly, there are far more idiots and far more apathy than there should be in a field that matters so much.

Back to the show - as with most of its kind, there is so very little communication when in "real life" some of these 3-line exchanges would lead to much longer conversations where people actually ask questions. When Claire spent all night grilling Ben about who Adam turned out to be -- that was the most realistic excerpt of the entire series. When Ben offhandedly remarks that he hurt Adam, that's your cue, Willa, to pull him into a room and demand answers. How? When? What happened? Why? What normal person (even an abnormal one) doesn't have the curiosity to find out every single detail about what happened in that bunker from the moment Adam was taken to the moment he was gone, including (and especially) EXACTLY HOW HE DIED!?

[iMonrey]

Quote

I am clearly in the minority but I disagree that nothing happens on the show and it is just a lot of red herrings and dropped stuff. Many episodes did reveal more and more of the mystery. 

I agree with you for the most part. While the writing certainly has its faults, overall I've found the show very watchable and appreciated that the story moves along at a nice pace without a lot of vagueness and dragging that seem to plague most shows based around some mystery.

That said, I think this particular episode demonstrated that this could have been a 10-part series rather than a 12-part (or 13?) because not a lot happened and what did happen didn't make a lot of sense.

I don't know why Hank thinks he's going to be heralded as a hero if he helps capture Doug. Since he himself is a registered sex offender, not to mention the original person charged with kidnapping Adam, if he provides the vital clue to the real culprit, won't most people simply assume he was in on the whole scheme from the start?

I also don't get why Willa went from knowing Ben "hurt" Adam somehow to downright accusing him of murder, or why on earth she would choose to reveal this information to her mother at the most inopportune moment imaginable. 

I also consider Bridey somehow tracking down Ben's mother inconceivably absurd. 

Still, I'll be interested to see how they wrap this thing up next week, assuming there's only one more episode (are we sure there aren't 13?)

[Guest]

I'm guessing we'll see the following scenes next week.  Willa and Ben's conversation did continue on and included Ben describing how he killed Adam, which is some fabricated half truth Doug convinced him of on the park bench.  We'll also be shown that conversation.  

I think we'll also see Clements make the call for Doug but he'll put in some clue like "Tell Josiah I love him but I just couldn't stay."  And Jane will recall his husband is named Jonah, but she won't let on to Doug.  Nina will know the call was forced and find him just in time to save him.

The season finale is next Sunday for sure.

The unasked question that bothered me most was Nina not asking Ben (privately) why he was covering for Doug.  It should be clear that he's been threatened.  A real cop could get to the bottom of it and explain to Ben he's not in any danger of prosecution and the news that he's not Adam is already known or at least suspected, so he has no reason to protect the guy.  Basically neutralize his threat however you need to.  

Edited May 9, 2016 by Guest

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I also consider Bridey somehow tracking down Ben's mother inconceivably absurd. 

If the foster system is so fucked up (I'll believe you guys, I don't have experience with it, thank god), there probably is or could conceivably be an internet site for parents who have lost their kids.  Like Petfinder.com.  So Bridey just had to google a sec to find, "I'm Sally, I work at Joe's Truck Stop on I-95. I lost my Ben to foster care in 1998 when he was two.  Please find me, Ben!"  

I'm trying.  

[Free]

5 hours ago, editorgrrl said:

Complications?  http://m.imdb.com/title/tt3410350/  https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complications_(TV_series)

I'm not sure, as I gave up on that show pretty quickly—despite being a fan of Jason O'Mara. (I only started watching this show because of Rupert Graves.)

Maybe ABC wanted this show to be its version of Broadchurch (a whodunnit in a small town) or American Crime (with Andrew McCarthy rather than Timothy Hutton). But the writing's subpar.

Oh, it was kind of forgettable and it blurred with his other cancelled shows.

[Texasmom1970]

27 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I'm guessing we'll see the following scenes next week.  Willa and Ben's conversation did continue on and included Ben describing how he killed Adam, which is some fabricated half truth Doug convinced him of on the park bench.  We'll also be shown that conversation.  

I think we'll also see Clements make the call for Doug but he'll put in some clue like "Tell Josiah I love him but I just couldn't stay."  And Jane will recall his husband is named Jonah, but she won't let on to Doug.  Nina will know the call was forced and find him just in time to save him.

The season finale is next Sunday for sure.

Thank heavens next week is the season finale. I either need to get drunk or real dumb to be able to watch this show and not criticize all the characters and plot holes!

[rue721]

I think Jane is afraid of what Pocky might do if she were to tip off the cops (or just can't bring herself to outright betray him), which is why she's OK with Clemens escaping, but not with going to the cops herself. I think she's trying to keep some plausible deniability (in Pocky's eyes) that she's still on Pocky's side.

Also, I guess she's in a similar situation that Sally was in. Her boyfriend is up to no good, but if she lets herself go down with him, what's going to happen to her kid?

11 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Ben was upfront about having a good thing going and not letting Willa take it away from him, taunting her by gleefully talking about his future home in the governor's mansion. I'm sure he'd rather stay with the Warrens than be returned to his waitress excon mother, who he hasn't known since he was two, even though she's more stable now than the Warren clan.

Yeah, I doubt that "going home" to his bio-mother has even occurred to Ben as an option.

Why would it? She basically abandoned him as a toddler. I doubt that he knows who or where she is, and I doubt that he would assume that she would welcome him back in any case (seeing as she was indifferent enough to him when he was a baby that she apparently just let him disappear into foster care).

8 hours ago, mertensia said:

Ben's just creepy.

I understand why Willa finds him creepy and threatening, what with the way he sneaked into her room and watched her sleep, and the way he taunted her by asking about his room in the governor's mansion. So I guess it makes sense that she made the leap to him killing Adam. And who knows, he might have told her (imo, lied to her) and said that he did.

But I personally don't find him that creepy, and really doubt that he killed Adam. He does weird stuff, like lurk around the house at night, but I interpret that kind of thing as a sign of him being screwed up, insecure, and starved for affection, not a sign that he's dangerous. Eh, maybe I'm going too easy on him. But there are times in every episode where he kind of breaks my heart. Like how he got so pale and desperate when Willa brought up her plan to send him off to boarding school. Or how he wore that gold watch that Claire gave him nonstop through this episode (even during the night, when he was watching Willa). I just feel bad for the kid.

Anyway, the show also made the point that Willa isn't good at reading Ben, but that Claire is, by showing us that Claire could tell that Ben was lying during the lineup. So I think that if/when Claire confronts Ben, she's more liable than Willa to be able to get the truth out of him.

Also, Ben seemed terrified during that lineup. He immediately asked whether Pocky could see him, and he just looked scared as hell. I don't think that what he's afraid of is that Pocky will tell people that he's not Adam, because the people in the family who he is closest to and cares about the most (Claire and Willa) already know that, and he's already pointed out that it's not in Pocky's interest anyway to tell people that he kidnapped two boys and that one is dead. I don't think that he's afraid that Pocky will blame him for Adam's death, either, because he set Willa up to blame him by telling him that he hurt him. I don't know what he IS afraid of, except that I think that he knows that someone's safety is at risk if Pocky goes down. Given that he was sent into foster care when his mom went to prison, maybe it's Jane and the baby's safety that he fears for?

4 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Jane said there was no phone service out there, not cell or landline.

The waitress said it was Social Services that put her son in foster care when she went to jail. The question is, was Doug her boyfriend and Ben's father, as several viewers have speculated?

If Doug is Ben's father, couldn't he have just gotten him out of foster care the ordinary way, without having to kidnap him? Although who knows, maybe kidnapping him would still have been faster and easier than proving himself a fit parent.

[marcee]

25 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

If the foster system is so fucked up (I'll believe you guys, I don't have experience with it, thank god), there probably is or could conceivably be an internet site for parents who have lost their kids.  Like Petfinder.com.  So Bridey just had to google a sec to find, "I'm Sally, I work at Joe's Truck Stop on I-95. I lost my Ben to foster care in 1998 when he was two.  Please find me, Ben!"  

I'm trying.  

Hee. Well, my guess is there was definitely some legwork involved. It might've made more sense if she was working with Nina (or if we KNEW she was working with Nina) because at least then we could backtrack from the foster home who knew how old he was and where he was from when he arrived. It wouldn't be too hard to figure out who the mom was (and track her down) from that point. But I'm not sure where Bridey started. If she's not working with Nina (or has a source in the police department who has that info) she'd be starting with DNA (that may or may not be in the system), the kid's age and perhaps his original location (based on the suspect's location 10+ years ago). So that's not an IMPOSSIBLE starting point. That doesn't even count what she found on Willa's computer. Willa's computer might have EVERYTHING, including Ben's FULL name and original hometown and the fact that he went into foster care when he was 2. In that case, it would've been pretty easy to find the mom.

Keep in mind, finding the mom is the easy part...

As the mom, finding the kid would be near impossible. The foster home LOST him and never reported it. For the last 10 years, he's been locked in a bunker. And now he's 19 and under an assumed name. How would the mom even begin to go about finding him...

[RedInk]

Did the waitress definitively say that her boyfriend (the kidnapper) was Ben's father? Because I was thinking otherwise.

And are we to believe that the flashbacks are reliable? I would think so, but then I need to know what happened between Ben's desperate fight/escape from captivity and the almost casual relationship he has with Pocky now.

In general, the character motivations and scenes are senseless to me, and maybe it's because I feel like I'm missing key information. Not in a good, mysterious way, but in a what-the-hell-kind-of-people-act-like-this way. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, RedInk said:

Did the waitress definitively say that her boyfriend (the kidnapper) was Ben's father? Because I was thinking otherwise.

I didn't get the impression that the boyfriend was Ben's father OR the kidnapper.  

Quote

 He does weird stuff, like lurk around the house at night,

When Ben was sitting in Willa's room telling her he came in to ask how/if confession works, but he didn't knock because he didn't want to wake her, was anyone else hoping she'd ask, "How did you plan on asking me without waking me?"  

[izabella]

1 minute ago, RedInk said:

I need to know what happened between Ben's desperate fight/escape from captivity and the almost casual relationship he has with Pocky now.

THIS is the biggest mystery for me now.  They seem to be all palsy-walsy, meeting on park benches and lying to the police and whatnot.  Ben didn't seem particularly uncomfortable or afraid of Doug on the park bench, and obviously Doug didn't do anything to him, either when he showed up at the house or during the bench meeting.  Not getting why Ben is so casual about him, including when he first was all over the tv for getting free and being Adam.  I would have expected him to want to remain in hiding behind locked doors until Doug is captured...you know, like a kid who grew up in a hole might do.

[OpieTaylor]

What has become of Jane's baby? Did we even see him in this episode? Are we to assume he's quiet and sleeping? When we saw Jane upstairs with Pocky, it seems like she would have been holding her baby. But maybe with all the stress, she's not bonding with him.

[Guest]

We saw him quiet and sleeping on the monitor before she started thumbectomy.  

I think she wasn't holding him when Doug came home so they could have the big reveal, "I had the baby here alone with no car or phone, you asshole, that's why I'm bloody!"  

[lucindabelle]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

If the foster system is so fucked up (I'll believe you guys, I don't have experience with it, thank god), there probably is or could conceivably be an internet site for parents who have lost their kids.  Like Petfinder.com.  So Bridey just had to google a sec to find, "I'm Sally, I work at Joe's Truck Stop on I-95. I lost my Ben to foster care in 1998 when he was two.  Please find me, Ben!"  

I'm trying.  

It's to the point where you seem to only ever hear about awful foster parents. so many news stories about kids being abused, about people doing it for the money and making shit up. Horrifying. A Satanic Panic in Texas was fabricated apparently just to make more money for the foster parents. See the movie "Booger Red." Six people imprisoned, one still there. It makes me want to be a foster parent just to tip the balance a little. Sadly I don't have the money nor a partner, and also, to be honest, it's always a little scary to take a kid because you're a little afraid of how damaged they might already be. Still if I had the means I'd do it.

43 minutes ago, OpieTaylor said:

What has become of Jane's baby? Did we even see him in this episode? Are we to assume he's quiet and sleeping? When we saw Jane upstairs with Pocky, it seems like she would have been holding her baby. But maybe with all the stress, she's not bonding with him.

I thought that was very very bizarre too.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The unasked question that bothered me most was Nina not asking Ben (privately) why he was covering for Doug.  It should be clear that he's been threatened.  A real cop could get to the bottom of it and explain to Ben he's not in any danger of prosecution and the news that he's not Adam is already known or at least suspected, so he has no reason to protect the guy.  Basically neutralize his threat however you need to.  

Yes. I think the show has definitively established that Nina sucks as a detective.

Edited May 9, 2016 by iMonrey

[Bobbin]

I think Nina lost any chance of ever again asking Ben or the Warrens anything when she tried to badger Ben into ID'ing Doug in the lineup, which would make an identification inadmissable in court anyway, as any rational cop would know. John told her on the way out to stay away from his family.

[beaker73]

I know this is mean, but that actor that plays young Adam is about the doofiest kid I have ever seen. 

[CleoCaesar]

Quote

If the issue was the width of his hand rather than the depth of the mound at the base of the thumb I'd personally rather lose the pinky and ring finger. Opposable thumbs = good thing to have.

I agree. Thumbs > pinkies. Also, color me naive about handcuffs, but what good would chopping off one's thumbs do? I (and probably anyone) can tuck my thumbs in to the point where it looks like I don't have them. It doesn't make the hand that much more narrow to slip through handcuffs.

[seacliffsal]

Okay, I know it's just me, but the most unrealistic thing that happened in the episode in my opinion was the waitress telling reporter girl that since she eats like a bird, everything was on her.  Um, no?  First of all, reporter girl was there for hours, drank coffee, obviously ate something, and a less than minimum wage former con waitress (less than minimum wage because 'tips' are supposed to make up the difference) not only pays for reporter's meal, but gives up a tip as well.  Nope, not going to happen.

[designing1]

40 minutes ago, CleoCaesar said:

I agree. Thumbs > pinkies. Also, color me naive about handcuffs, but what good would chopping off one's thumbs do? I (and probably anyone) can tuck my thumbs in to the point where it looks like I don't have them. It doesn't make the hand that much more narrow to slip through handcuffs.

Yes, that was my first thought, but that gives your hand more of a circumference -- which might not fit through the cuff -- as opposed to a narrower hand that has no depth.

I think the real reason for the "cut off my thumbs" was because it was one of the few things the writers hadn't already thrown in the mix. Or it was an homage to The Pope of Greenwich Village.