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ElectricBoogaloo

S12.E22: Mama Tried

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Some minor observations:

- I loved Bailey in this episode.  Like others have said, moresoe that I have in awhile.  her "Objection! Speculation!" would be so me.  I swear I have watched too many lawyer tv shows that if I had that opening while on the stand I would completely play a tv lawyer in my head. 

-I like how they are keeping with her strong feminist stance they've shown her to have before. Also enjoyed how she sat behind Callie because obviously that was the party that called her to testify but then she switched and sat behind Arizona because obviously she was offended on Arizona's behalf by the slant of the questioning.

- In theory I like that drinking scene between Meredith and Callie where they were talking about Mark.  I couldn't follow the dialogue, tho because of the Prince/Rosie Gaines version of 'Nothing Compares 2 U' playing behind the scene.  i was trying to hard to hear that.

-Loved the April/Jackson scenes.  This is how you adult!

-DeLuca has such a pretty profile.  That boy needs to be on a Roman coin.

- "You're hugging me too tight." and then "You're hugging me too long."

- Kevin McKidd's directing was awfully flourishy.  There was this one shot at the very beginning where Callie & Arizona's faces looked like one of those pictures people send to Awkward Family photos

callie-arizona.jpg

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Personally, I have no idea why this turned into a battle about custody.  All the judge had to do was say, "You both have joint custody but NEITHER of you is allowed to move her out of state.  Deal with it."

Taking Callie's custody away ENTIRELY seems the most ridiculous option here, just like it would have been ridiculous if custody had entirely been taken from Arizona. 

And wrong though it may be, I, too, would never expect a judge to take ALL custody away from a bio parent if they are a fit parent, which Callie is according to the parenting rules on this show.

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Taking Callie's custody away ENTIRELY seems the most ridiculous option here, just like it would have been ridiculous if custody had entirely been taken from Arizona. 

The judge awarded Arizona sole physical custody. To my understanding, that means Sofia will live with Arizona full time and Callie still has visitation rights and they still share legal custody. If a family law poster could weigh in, there are very distinct differences between physical and legal custody.

Edited by sarkygal
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I have a feeling that anyone well versed in family law probably only barely made it through this episode without their brain exploding.

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5 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

The judge awarded Arizona sole physical custody. To my understanding, that means Sofia will live with Arizona full time and Callie still has visitation rights and they still share legal custody. If a family law poster could weigh in, they are very distinct differences between physical and legal custody.

Did the judge say physical custody?  I just heard "full custody" but confess I only half-pay attention to this show when I watch anymore.

If, in Grey's world, there is a difference between physical and legal custody, they really should have made that clear.  Because Callie doesn't need to be wailing like she lost her daughter if she still has joint legal custody.  Though, I guess, even if she stayed in Seattle now, she still would only get to see Sofia during her every other weekend or whatever rather than half-time like now.

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15 minutes ago, sarkygal said:

The judge awarded Arizona sole physical custody. To my understanding, that means Sofia will live with Arizona full time and Callie still has visitation rights and they still share legal custody. If a family law poster could weigh in, they are very distinct differences between physical and legal custody.

That's probably what it is and it makes perfect sense as long as Callie is actually moving to New York as a child can't be physically present at two places at the same time. But, if she choses to stay, there really is no reason why they wouldn't keep the status quo going and why Sofia couldn't also live with Callie. She hasn't been deemed an unfit mother. So, what happens if/when she decides she's not going to NY? They're back in court because she wants shared custody again? I don't see why it wouldn't be granted to her. Couldn't they save everyone's time and come out with a ruling that keeps things as they are, as it's in the best interest of the child, with a provision that the parent moving out the state would have to relinquish the physical custody? At least it makes sense to me. 

Edited by Joana
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6 minutes ago, izabella said:

Did the judge say physical custody?  I just heard "full custody" but confess I only half-pay attention to this show when I watch anymore.

If, in Grey's world, there is a difference between physical and legal custody, they really should have made that clear.  Because Callie doesn't need to be wailing like she lost her daughter if she still has joint legal custody.  Though, I guess, even if she stayed in Seattle now, she still would only get to see Sofia during her every other weekend or whatever rather than half-time like now.

I'll have to check what was said at the end of the hearing, but at the start of the episode the judge did specifically say "sole physical custody."

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1 minute ago, Joana said:

Couldn't they save everyone's time and come out with a ruling that keeps things as they are, as it's in the best interest of the child, with a provision that the parent moving out the state would have to relinquish the physical custody. At least it makes sense to me. 

Yes, this would have made sense from the beginning.  Since they cleared it up during this episode that Arizona really had adopted Sofia, there should never have been a custody hearing, but a hearing to add a line to their existing custody agreement that Sofia isn't allowed to leave the state without both parents' agreeing, and if one doesn't, she stays. 

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3 hours ago, Catznip said:

 Is Shonda that cruel? . 

Rhetorical, right? George literally thrown under a bus after TR Knight went public with Isaiah Washington's (Shonda's pet) gay bashing. Derek Shepherd became a greasy spot on a rural mountain road and treated at a smaller shitty hospital that popped up between the City of Seattle and SeaTac after Patrick Dempsey asked for less air time and may, or may not, have had fling with a crew member. Lexie gets squished by an airplane fuselage and eaten by coyotes...I don't know what Chyler Leigh did to deserve THAT. Mark dies shortly after, but at least he got a decent hospital stay, good doctors that tried to save him, and opportunity to say good-bye to everyone. Shonda must not have been as pissed at Eric Dane.  

Yeah, she can be. But she likes Sara Ramirez. Callie won't die. But, making the viewers a bit pissed off at her, makes the departure less stressful, and having to deal with both Sandra Oh and Patrick Dempsey leaving in the past two seasons, she needed to not have another high drama hiatus. 

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I think "full custody" is a misnomer. I think the right term is "primary custody," which would mean that Arizona has physical custody, but a designated and agreed-upon visitation schedule is in place and Callie still has rights in her daughter's life. Callie is not (or should not, I can't trust the writers to keep things even remotely sane) giving up her parental rights; if Sophia is visiting mommy and Miss Penny in NY during school vacation, Callie is the one who would make a medical decision in the case of an emergency and all that. This judgement was not meant to "take away" Sophia as Callie's daughter.

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3 hours ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

That would be true if the other person wanting custody was a relative, like a grandmother.  Not too long ago, gay couples could not adopt kids together, be cause two people cannot both be the mothers, or the Fathers.  But laws have changed, and while Callie is the biological parent, AZ is the adoptive parent, and has the same legal standing.  Before this hearing , they were coparenting, with joint custody.  AZ has the same rights as if they were a hetero couple who had a child together.

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If Arizona has then Sofia not adopted after Mark's death, she would now probably not get sole custody of Sofia. The Court also checked yet everything when they give someone full custody beforehand. The Familliengericht is when it comes to children's very sensitive.

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32 minutes ago, izabella said:

Personally, I have no idea why this turned into a battle about custody.  All the judge had to do was say, "You both have joint custody but NEITHER of you is allowed to move her out of state.  Deal with it."

Taking Callie's custody away ENTIRELY seems the most ridiculous option here, just like it would have been ridiculous if custody had entirely been taken from Arizona.

Absolutely. Arizona could just say no to the move, Callie would take her to court, and the judge would rule on whether or not Callie could override azs objection and move Sofia anyway.  Callie lost the battle because she was trying to change what they had already agreed on.

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Well whatever you may think of Shonda and co, they've at least got people talking and thinking about a subject that affects so many people but that so many others have outdated, harmful and insulting opinions on.

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2 minutes ago, backformore said:

Absolutely. Arizona could just say no to the move, Callie would take her to court, and the judge would rule on whether or not Callie could override azs objection and move Sofia anyway.  Callie lost the battle because she was trying to change what they had already agreed on.

The thing is, all this time the show seemed to imply that it was Arizona who sued for custody. I thought it was because she didn't have parenting rights and that it was her desperate attempt to be recognized as Sofia's mother. But as it turns out that she has legally adopted Sofia, it's more likely that Callie would be the one taking it to court, and we haven't been told so. 

The whole thing is quite confusing. 

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42 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

 

- Kevin McKidd's directing was awfully flourishy.  There was this one shot at the very beginning where Callie & Arizona's faces looked like one of those pictures people send to Awkward Family photos

Hey...my senior picture is like that!  Heh.

I can say, that looking at my bio-parent vs. my adoptive parent, I am SO glad that my birth state did NOT think biology was the end all-beat all, bottom line. 

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14 minutes ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Rhetorical, right? George literally thrown under a bus after TR Knight went public with Isaiah Washington's (Shonda's pet) gay bashing. Derek Shepherd became a greasy spot on a rural mountain road and treated at a smaller shitty hospital that popped up between the City of Seattle and SeaTac after Patrick Dempsey asked for less air time and may, or may not, have had fling with a crew member. Lexie gets squished by an airplane fuselage and eaten by coyotes...I don't know what Chyler Leigh did to deserve THAT. Mark dies shortly after, but at least he got a decent hospital stay, good doctors that tried to save him, and opportunity to say good-bye to everyone. Shonda must not have been as pissed at Eric Dane.  

Yeah, she can be. But she likes Sara Ramirez. Callie won't die. But, making the viewers a bit pissed off at her, makes the departure less stressful, and having to deal with both Sandra Oh and Patrick Dempsey leaving in the past two seasons, she needed to not have another high drama hiatus. 

So many people have complained over the years that Callie is always the finger pointing victim that is constantly screwed over. Shonda mentioned wanting to take that stigma away from her. It started early this season with Maggie calling Callie a bully and kind of climaxed with this episode. Callie played dirty so that she could hurt instead of getting hurt and it backfired.

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3 hours ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

The more I see this post, the more pissed I get. It is pretty much saying "yeah they are both equal parents BUT some parents are more equal than others."

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25 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

Well whatever you may think of Shonda and co, they've at least got people talking and thinking about a subject that affects so many people but that so many others have outdated, harmful and insulting opinions on.

Some of the responses (including ones in this very thread) have been maddening. Arizona, by law, is Sofia's mother too. Any judge worth their salt and who isn't incredibly prejudiced wouldn't throw that out just because they don't biologically share the same DNA.

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  3 hours ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

The more I see this post, the more pissed I get. It is pretty much saying "yeah they are both equal parents BUT some parents are more equal than others."

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

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  3 hours ago, sekay87 said:

I'm sorry, but nope. Nope nope nope nope nope. The fact of the matter is, while Arizona is a parent to Sofia, Callie is the BIOLOGICAL parent, and she is 100% a fit mother. No judge in his or her right mind would separate a child from their biological parent if they are, in fact, a fit parent. I don't care if Arizona comes across as more sympathetic or not, that would just never happen.

That would be true if the other person wanting custody was a relative, like a grandmother.  Not too long ago, gay couples could not adopt kids together, be cause two people cannot both be the mothers, or the Fathers.  But laws have changed, and while Callie is the biological parent, AZ is the adoptive parent, and has the same legal standing.  Before this hearing , they were coparenting, with joint custody.  AZ has the same rights as if they were a hetero couple who had a child together.

But did Arizona ever legally adopt Sofia? I don't think so. That's my argument and my point. Maybe I didn't convey it well. If she had legally adopted her after Mark's passing and her and Callie were both legally known as Sofia's parents, then I retract my statement. But I don't recall that occurring.

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Just now, sekay87 said:

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

 

The stated in this episode that Arizona adopted Sofia.

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Just now, sekay87 said:

But did Arizona ever legally adopt Sofia? I don't think so. That's my argument and my point. Maybe I didn't convey it well. If she had legally adopted her after Mark's passing and her and Callie were both legally known as Sofia's parents, then I retract my statement. But I don't recall that occurring.

Yes in the courtroom Arizona specifically said she LEGALLY adopted Sophia.  That was her whole point in how she is no less a parent than Callie in this situation. 

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  3 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

But did Arizona ever legally adopt Sofia? I don't think so. That's my argument and my point. Maybe I didn't convey it well. If she had legally adopted her after Mark's passing and her and Callie were both legally known as Sofia's parents, then I retract my statement. But I don't recall that occurring.

Yes in the courtroom Arizona specifically said she LEGALLY adopted Sophia.  That was her whole point in how she is no less a parent than Callie in this situation. 

Then I must have missed it--in that case, she has every right that Callie does. Sorry about that. They must have JUST brought that up this episode because I don't remember that being any plot point on the show in the past.

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  4 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

 

The stated in this episode that Arizona adopted Sofia.

OKay--then I missed it. My mistake.

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1 minute ago, sekay87 said:

OKay--then I missed it. My mistake.

Yes, this is the first time it was verified.  It had been speculation up to that point. 

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3 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

My apologies if you never meant any harm, it was confirmed in this ep that she did legally adopt Sof but I know before it was only assumed and we were never told outright that she had. I guess you just missed that part in this ep, an honest mistake if so.

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  14 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

Well whatever you may think of Shonda and co, they've at least got people talking and thinking about a subject that affects so many people but that so many others have outdated, harmful and insulting opinions on.

Some of the responses (including ones in this very thread) have been maddening. Arizona, by law, is Sofia's mother too. Any judge worth their salt and who isn't incredibly prejudiced wouldn't throw that out just because they don't biologically share the same DNA.

I'm one of those people and obviously missed the part where Arizona said she adopted Sofia. I don't remember that ever being on the show before this episode, and to be honest I was in and out of this episode in terms of attention span. My apologies to people I offended--clearly I missed an important fact of the case.

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If Arizona were not legally Sofia's mother, then fighting Callie for custody would be a difficult hill to climb -- not simply because Callie is the biological mother but because, by being the biological mother, we must assume that Callie is the legal mother. Even if Arizona had some guardianship over Sofia, if she was not recognized as a legal parent then yes, it would be very unlikely that a judge would award her custody unless Callie were unfit somehow. But as the episode made it clear that Arizona was Sofia's legally adoptive mother (and I've been waiting forever for that to be clarified on this show, so yay!), then she and Callie are on equal legal footing.

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  11 minutes ago, sekay87 said:

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

My apologies if you never meant any harm, it was confirmed in this ep that she did legally adopt Sof but I know before it was only assumed and we were never told outright that she had. I guess you just missed that part in this ep, an honest mistake if so.

Yes I did miss it! My attention was in and out of the episode. Sorry! I'm shocked the writers didn't make it more of a thing in the past because I could have seen that being an issue. Mark was part of Sofia's life for a time, after all...but I'm glad I know that now. It changes my out look for sure.

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How long ago did Derek die? Hasn't it been about 2 years now? It came up during Mer's testimony ("Your husband died recently, is that correct?"), but I thought it was strange not to put a timeframe on the single mom status. If anything, you'd think that the "single moms leaning on each other" tact would work better if you framed it as a years-long, established relationship; saying Derek passed away "recently" sort of dilutes that.

Also, I have learned by lesson about not reading comments on other online venues about this show. The level of vitriol toward Arizona for the fact that she was unsure about motherhood back when Sophia was conceived is somewhat frightening to me as a woman who experienced some angst at an unexpected pregnancy. The number of folks who are saying that she has no right to even consider herself Sophia's mother and ought not even be recognized as such because "she didn't even want children, EVER!!!!!" is alarming; I wonder how many would tell me that I don't deserve my son because I cried 14 years ago when I saw the positive test (since I thought I was done having babies and I'd just put my career back on track because I figured that I didn't have any more maternity leaves and such). 

Edited by St. Claire
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2 hours ago, sekay87 said:

I never meant to imply that Callie was more of a parent than Arizona. But legally, I don't think Arizona ever adopted Sofia. If she did, and I'm mistaken, please feel free to correct me. I'm saying from an entirely LEGAL, non-emotional standpoint, it does not make sense.

Yeap, it is said in court room that Sofia was adopted by Arizona, even has her last name included together with Mark's and Callie's.

Anyhow, I do understand that a lot of people think it was a little too strong to "take out" a child from her mother (it would be the same feeling if the custody had been granted to Callie). It is, because in real life people don't go to court and things don't get solved like this, hearings for days and all without trying to settle both parents via some social or psichological worker, a third neutral part to reach an agreement. So, plot contriviance for drama reasons.

Callie overreacted at the end, it seemed like she had lost the battle for Sofia, like she could never ever ever ever see her daughter again. Basically the decisian meant: Sofia's life given this unstable moving is in Seatle, in this case with her mom Arizona, so if Callie goes to NY she can visit Sofia as much as she wanted Arizona to do upon the moving idea, in case she decides to let Penny go but she stays, she still will have visits, sleeping over, the company of her daughter.

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The name thing pissed me off for sure. I remember when this whole storyline started. Shonda wanted it to be this beautiful modern family thing, with three equal parents. She said online that Sofia's last name was Torres and her middle names were Robbin Sloan and that was totally understandable and fine, you can't have a kid having three last names that would be ridiculous so Mark and Arizona being cool with Sofia having Callie's last name made total sense for all involved. Now to say that her last name is actually Sloan-Torres, I have a problem with that, your saying that this "modern family" had three parents but 1 parent out of 3 was left out with the last name, bullshit! Shonda and co accept all the Glaad awards but don't actually give a decent family storyline to the lesbians, if I say it once I'll say it hundred times, why the fuck did Shonda even involve Mark in the Calzona having a baby storyline?

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12 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

The name thing pissed me off for sure. I remember when this whole storyline started. Shonda wanted it to be this beautiful modern family thing, with three equal parents. She said online that Sofia's last name was Torres and her middle names were Robbin Sloan and that was totally understandable and fine, you can't have a kid having three last names that would be ridiculous so Mark and Arizona being cool with Sofia having Callie's last name made total sense for all involved. Now to say that her last name is actually Sloan-Torres, I have a problem with that, your saying that this "modern family" had three parents but 1 parent out of 3 was left out with the last name, bullshit! Shonda and co accept all the Glaad awards but don't actually give a decent family storyline to the lesbians, if I say it once I'll say it hundred times, why the fuck did Shonda even involve Mark in the Calzona having a baby storyline?

I know that when Sofia came into the hospital she introduced herself as Sofa Sloan Torres, but in the episode last night I'm sure the judge said Sofia Robbin Sloan Torres.

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1 minute ago, PrincessTT said:

I know that when Sofia came into the hospital she introduced herself as Sofa Sloan Torres, but in the episode last night I'm sure the judge said Sofia Robbin Sloan Torres.

Yes I know that is her full name but now they are suddenly saying that her surname is Sloan-Torres. They said that when they were saying that Arizona "Came around" and that Dr Torres and Dr Sloan entered into an agreement to have a kid. *insert eye roll*

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20 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Okay, does this mean that Penny has officially broken up TWO families? One with her cooch, and one with her surgical skills?

I thought we'd all managed to get over the irrational notion that Penny was responsible for Derek's death? *smh*

17 hours ago, Daisy said:

I have to say - I didn't like Bailey's "Objection, speculation" tirad. Nor did i like her "Oh humph would you say this if she were a man?" flaunt back.

Bailey's self-righteousness was annoying in this episode. Sometimes it's funny, but not this time. 

17 hours ago, Starscream said:

I hope this show never does a courtroom episode ever again.

Ditto. It was worse than any screechingly irrational 1970s soap opera courtroom scene. 

10 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

When Jackson and April brought up Christmas, I don't know why it was even a question about taking turns. Even people who aren't religious celebrate Christmas because it's an annual family gathering. I would have been so mad if April tried to claim every Christmas in perpetuity just because of the original religious meaning. Taking turns for Christmas is the only fair solution

Every divorced couple I know swaps the kids on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day, alternating each year.

You gotta wonder about an episode where Jackson and April are the only voices of reason. 

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2 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Rhetorical, right? George literally thrown under a bus after TR Knight went public with Isaiah Washington's (Shonda's pet) gay bashing. Derek Shepherd became a greasy spot on a rural mountain road and treated at a smaller shitty hospital that popped up between the City of Seattle and SeaTac after Patrick Dempsey asked for less air time and may, or may not, have had fling with a crew member. Lexie gets squished by an airplane fuselage and eaten by coyotes...I don't know what Chyler Leigh did to deserve THAT. Mark dies shortly after, but at least he got a decent hospital stay, good doctors that tried to save him, and opportunity to say good-bye to everyone. Shonda must not have been as pissed at Eric Dane.  

Yeah, she can be. But she likes Sara Ramirez. Callie won't die. But, making the viewers a bit pissed off at her, makes the departure less stressful, and having to deal with both Sandra Oh and Patrick Dempsey leaving in the past two seasons, she needed to not have another high drama hiatus. 

ROFL Chicks...

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49 minutes ago, GreysFan89 said:

Yes I know that is her full name but now they are suddenly saying that her surname is Sloan-Torres. They said that when they were saying that Arizona "Came around" and that Dr Torres and Dr Sloan entered into an agreement to have a kid. *insert eye roll*

The name thing doesn't bother me too much... I'm happy to think that after Mark died then Arizona legally adopted Sofia (she couldn't have done it when Mark was alive unless he was willing to give up his parental rights) but they put Sloan into her surname to still keep her link to Mark alive.

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3 hours ago, Chicken Wing said:

I have a feeling that anyone well versed in family law probably only barely made it through this episode without their brain exploding.

No, not really.  I was a judge hearing child support disputes, so there were usually some custody issues involved.  I typed out a small book a couple of pages ago about why the judge handed down the only sound decision possible.

The judge in this case wouldn't have had the option of a compromise play like making Callie stay in Seattle.  The case before her was a suit between two adversarial parties to establish sole custody and she based her [one] decision on the appropriate standard of "best interests of the child."  In real life they probably would have been in front of a mediator who relied on the report from Sophia's court-appointed representative more than questionable popularity contest testimony from friends, family and colleagues.  A mediator, or the decision-maker in some alternative forum, would have had more freedom to suggest Callie might want to rethink her game plan.

And adoption vests full parental rights.  As in, 100%.  There's no distinction allowing biology to lurk in the background, then jump out to claim the legal upper hand.  (Maybe a judge might subconsciously be influenced, but I hope not and I think a responsible decision-maker would be guarding him/herself against that bias.)

So Arizona is now the custodial parent, but that does NOT mean Callie has lost all her parental rights where Sophia is concerned.  The two of them have to sit down and dope out all the bloody details--times and places and holidays and finances, etc.--hopefully without needing court intervention.  If SR signs her contract and the writers let Callie get her head screwed back on, she can bring another action seeking joint legal custody.

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20 minutes ago, PrincessTT said:

The name thing doesn't bother me too much... I'm happy to think that after Mark died then Arizona legally adopted Sofia (she couldn't have done it when Mark was alive unless he was willing to give up his parental rights) but they put Sloan into her surname to still keep her link to Mark alive.

In normal circumstances this would not bother me, but Shonda made a point of making the modern family a thing, she wanted kudos from the LGBT community but wanted Callie and Mark to be THE parents, why do this? Why is Arizona just an afterthought? It really does annoy me, there was just no fucking need to involve Mark in Calzona's storyline. Like I just said Shonda wanted the kudos from the LGBT but didn't want to do the work.

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1 hour ago, GreysFan89 said:

The name thing pissed me off for sure. I remember when this whole storyline started. Shonda wanted it to be this beautiful modern family thing, with three equal parents. She said online that Sofia's last name was Torres and her middle names were Robbin Sloan and that was totally understandable and fine, you can't have a kid having three last names that would be ridiculous so Mark and Arizona being cool with Sofia having Callie's last name made total sense for all involved. Now to say that her last name is actually Sloan-Torres, I have a problem with that, your saying that this "modern family" had three parents but 1 parent out of 3 was left out with the last name, bullshit! Shonda and co accept all the Glaad awards but don't actually give a decent family storyline to the lesbians, if I say it once I'll say it hundred times, why the fuck did Shonda even involve Mark in the Calzona having a baby storyline?

See, if the writers had just let this family be - and be functional - the natural storytelling opportunities would have been endless. For example, showing how they dealt with the adoption/co-parenting after Mark died, long before this episode, would have been interesting and helpful. No need for cheating, no need for wild character assassinations. Just good storytelling.

But no, we have to make a big, old, tense mess of every relationship (or kill off one party if the pairing is healthy) in the name of "drama." 

Edited by RealityCowgirl
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1 minute ago, GreysFan89 said:

In normal circumstances this would not bother me, but Shonda made a point of making the modern family a thing, she wanted kudos from the LGBT community but wanted Callie and Mark to be THE parents, why do this? Why is Arizona just an afterthought? It really does annoy me, there was just no fucking need to involve Mark in Calzona's storyline. Like I just said Shonda wanted the kudos from the LGBT but didn't want to do the work.

I do agree that there was no need to involve Mark, that has always bugged me. 

I just feel the so much of Calzona's story has been off-screen that the little details are skipped over without much thought. At least now we (finally) know Arizona did legally adopt Sofia, so in relation to that the name thing isn't such a big deal.

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1 minute ago, PrincessTT said:

I do agree that there was no need to involve Mark, that has always bugged me. 

I just feel the so much of Calzona's story has been off-screen that the little details are skipped over without much thought. At least now we (finally) know Arizona did legally adopt Sofia, so in relation to that the name thing isn't such a big deal.

It makes me wonder about ep 10x09(?) Really? I mean if Arizona had not had a miscarriage, does anyone think Callie would have ASSUMED she could take Sofia and the kid Arizona would have had to NY? 

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3 hours ago, St. Claire said:

I think "full custody" is a misnomer. I think the right term is "primary custody," which would mean that Arizona has physical custody, but a designated and agreed-upon visitation schedule is in place and Callie still has rights in her daughter's life. Callie is not (or should not, I can't trust the writers to keep things even remotely sane) giving up her parental rights; if Sophia is visiting mommy and Miss Penny in NY during school vacation, Callie is the one who would make a medical decision in the case of an emergency and all that. This judgement was not meant to "take away" Sophia as Callie's daughter.

So basically Callie is so upset because she doesn't get what she wants. She wanted to, and thought she could, leave and follow her lame girlfriend to New York and take her and Arizona's daughter with her, but now she can't. She can go to New York, but going means being away from her child. So now Callie has to choose between this not great supposedly great love and her daughter, and one would think the choice is a no brainer but the way this has been set up who knows. 

If Callie does decide to move, even if it's because Sara Ramirez is on her way out, leaving the state her daughter is in for a demotion would be completely out of character for Callie. 

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2 hours ago, GreysFan89 said:

there was just no fucking need to involve Mark in Calzona's storyline. 

Because Mark being involved fucking made for lots of drama, that's why. Arizona didn't want kids; Arizona didn't like Mark. Callie, who likes to overreact, overreacted to Arizona going overseas by getting drunk and sleeping with her BFF. Arizona returns, and the three of them have to (eventually) act like adults. Callie getting knocked up with a turkey baster wouldn't be nearly as interesting to anyone, LGBT or not.

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5 hours ago, izabella said:

Yes, this would have made sense from the beginning.  Since they cleared it up during this episode that Arizona really had adopted Sofia, there should never have been a custody hearing, but a hearing to add a line to their existing custody agreement that Sofia isn't allowed to leave the state without both parents' agreeing, and if one doesn't, she stays. 

In the beginning the judge did say modify the custody agreement.  Wonder if one or both lawyers suggested the parents go for sole physical custody.  Obviously, if one - say Arizona - sought to modify the custody agreement as you suggest - Sofia not allowed to leave, then they would've ended up in court anyway, as Callie would never buy into it.  Feels like a direct route vs. a byway sort of thing.  Probably wrong as I don't understand all the legal bits.

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1 hour ago, Gladrags said:

Because Mark being involved fucking made for lots of drama, that's why. Arizona didn't want kids; Arizona didn't like Mark. Callie, who likes to overreact, overreacted to Arizona going overseas by getting drunk and sleeping with her BFF. Arizona returns, and the three of them have to (eventually) act like adults. Callie getting knocked up with a turkey baster wouldn't be nearly as interesting to anyone, LGBT or not.

a good writer can write up a good story using any basic/generic prompt. 

And honestly, I may not be LGBT, but I think Callie getting knocked up with a turkey baster would've made for a compelling story which would be interesting to the viewers.

Instead of the modern family SL, they could have gotten Callie and Arizona to look through pages and pages of donors and have them bickering over the qualities they want and dont want (comedy);then once they've chosen the donor, show them going through the difficulty of artificial insemination (drama); have them experience a loss (tragedy); have them celebrate once they find out they will be parents and then copy paste the musical episode (drama! thrills!).

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I always felt that the Mark/Callie/AZ stuff was the writers trying to have it both ways.  Keep the Callie/Mark chemistry going but also allow her to move forward with Arizona.  They did the same kind of thing with Alex, Izzie and Dead Denny.  One more hookup with the fantasy and then back to the more realistic, palatable relationship.

Edited by Deanie87
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