S01.E13: Take Me Back To Hell

[HalcyonDays]

Episode synopsis: When Lucifer is framed for murder, he and Chloe must work together to clear his name and prove the identity of the true killer

[Primetimer]

The cliffhanger is not so much a cliffhanger as an 'Oops, I almost took selfies while leaning too far over this safety rail' moment, but that just clears the board for Lucifer to clean up Amenadiel's earlier mess, as well as his own.

Read the story

[janeta]

Ok, i'm not up on my bible mythology (which may be redundant...). Who's the devil's mother?

[Rosiejuliemom]

Who is mum?

 

Lilith? Gaia? Rhea?

...

Holly from Little Nicky? 

Edited April 26, 2016 by Rosiejuliemom

[johntfs]

Rosemary?

[LittleRed]

Why is Mum escaping Hell a super scary thing?

 

I like how they are developing the relationship between Lucifer and Chloe.  I like that they're not going for the obvious UST.

 

Loved the scene with Lucifer, Amenadiel, and Dr. Linda in session.

 

Glad that Malcolm bought it in the end.

[HalcyonDays]

OMG! Who the heck is Mum???? Why you do this to me show?? Why?

 

Good episode, Malcolm getting his just desserts was sweet. Hate that Det. Douche has to surrender though. True evil takes Trixie and holds her hostage. Lucifer realizing he's dying - man...

 

But question - why are Angels/The Devil susceptible to gunshot wounds? Okay, I get Lucifer, if Chloe weakens him, but Amenadiel should be able to resist a stab from a demon-forged blade.. I say this, because from watching the show, I thought Demon's didn't have any power over Angels, or if anything, a weakened power. Guess it's enough to cause damage - but what about Angel healing powers?

 

Dr. Linda being like, "Yeah, you're brothers..." making the realization she's been played, and going from there. Rachael Harris is just wonderful.

 

OMG, Maze using her lone Lucifer!Feather to save Amenadiel!!!

 

All of the scenes between Maze/Amenadude, Lucifer/Maze/Amenadiel and Lucifer/Amenadiel were just pure gold. Love them all together. Excellent episode.

 

But the question remains.....Who the hell is Mum!!!??!!

[Jlina]

I loved it....first time I liked Amenadude too.  He was looking hot tonite and a little more fun.  Everyone had self-realization moments....there was supernatural moments and all the scenes were filmed so well.  Too many commercial cuts but all in all everything wrapped up in a wonderful Lucifer kind of bow.  Detective Dan manned up...Trixie was adorbs. Lucifer was complicated - not sure why there wasn't a group hug tho. And thank HEAVENS....God is in the building.  That was the coolest touch of all.  So glad there's a second season!

[LittleRed]

But question - why are Angels/The Devil susceptible to gunshot wounds. Okay, I get Lucifer, if Chloe weakens him, but Amenadiel should be able to resist a stab from a demon-forged blade.. I say this, because from watching the show, I thought Demon's didn't have any power over Angels, or if anything, a weakened power.

Actually, I thought Lucifer said, in last week's episode, that demon blades forged in Hell "prick".  I took that to mean that all Angels were vulnerable to them and these weapons were an exception.  

[Actionmage]

As far as season enders, this ranks with iZombie, for me. It had gripping moments, fun moments, awwww moments, and Dr. Linda still being awesome! Maze was her badass self and Chloe was as stalwart as everyone should have trusted. 

 

As far as who escaped: I figured the escapee would have to be someone big enough to worry Lucifer, but also someone who'd worry Amenadiel, who doesn't seem shake-able under normal conditions. I'm going to have to do some reading in order to make guesses, but the simplest guess seems to be Lilith. We shall see.

 

I'm just excited and the announcer sounded so excited/proud to tell us that the show will be back in the Fall. ( Or just back.  Season 2 is a go and I don't care too much when, just now!)

 

Yay, Show! Go celebrate your bad selves!

[HalcyonDays]

Actually, I thought Lucifer said, in last week's episode, that demon blades forged in Hell "prick".  I took that to mean that all Angels were vulnerable to them and these weapons were an exception.  

 

Hmm..interesting. I forgot about that. Thanks for the answer! Though by "prick" I didn't immediately think so devastating of a stab wound. More like a pin prick or slight cut. Which then begs the question...Why are Angels/The Devil, when on Earth, have the same flesh and blood and powerlessness that a human has? Obviously I don't read the comics (SPOILERTAG COMICS STUFF PLS!!), but I do find the possibilities fascinating.

[gwhh]

Detective Dan turing herself in surpise me a lot. He going to jail for a long time. Why he do that? It seem so strange. They could say that Malcolm stole it and the LAPD could never prove it either way.

Why was all the orange strobe lights going off during the fight scence at the brewery?

So who he the devil mom? Maybe she going to move in with him! That why he so scared.

Edited April 26, 2016 by gwhh

[Jlina]

Lucifer said Amen had been stabbed with something not of this world...I thought that was the answer.

[storyskip]

What an awesome episode, I loved pretty much everything about it.

 

Luci, Amenadiel and Dr. Martin (poor Dr. Martin she is up for sainthood I swear).  Luci and Amenadiel kicking drug dealer ass.  Chloe and Maze working together (I could do with more of that next season), Dan turning himself in.  

 

It's already been answered but to expand a little regarding the knife used to stab Amenadiel.  Maze said, just before she threw it that Lucifer would never let her throw anything that could truly hurt him at him and he proved her right.  While he just sat there and took the hits from the iron knife, when she flipped the demon blade at him, he quick grabbed it out of the air, no nonsense.  My take on the delivery of the line "We both know those ... prick" was supposed to convey "Demon dagger forged in hell can hurt me..."

 

OH!  Someone had mentioned Mrs. Malcolm and if we'd get to know her thoughts on all of this.  Kinda awesome that the show circled back to that and showed us!

 

Finally, my money is on Lilith = "mum".  In the comics Lilith is kinda the big bad (there are a lot of big bads, so this isn't really a spoiler).  Even if the show writers only touch on bits of her arcs, they still would have a lot of awesome material to be working with.

 

So Amenadiel and Luci, Chloe and Maze, Dr. Linda and possibly Dan and Trixie in the mix, all hunting down some hellish chaos next season?  Yes please, I'm there!

[Gigi43]

My big complaint is I couldn't actually hear the end of Lucifer asking 'Dad' for help/save Chloe. I really thought for some reason that Chloe was going to run toward the exit, or back away just far enough that somehow the bleeding would stop if she were away. 

 

Malcolm is not a long term bad guy, this was his time to go but I have to hand it to Kevin Rankin, he was an entertaining batshit nutcase. When Chloe and Trixie were hugging he made the motion in the background putting the gun to his own head, I couldn't help it I bursted out laughing. 

 

If Law and Order SVU can have their detectives do absolutely ridiculous stuff regularly and stay on the force, then I suspect there could be a way they'll end up writing that even though Dan confessed, he won't do jail time if they say Malcolm was threatening him or something. He only confessed to taking the gun, right? Not the shooting only Chloe knows? I actually want him to come back next season.

 

The therapy session was a riot. Dr. Linda should charge every a group rate---a hefty one, though.

 

I do wish that they'd have Chloe realize Lucifer is the devil by the of this season.So Lucifer and Amenadiel have a mother? I don't remember ever hearing about the mother of Angel's in Sunday School. Lucifer is so scared of her but spends all his time bitching about his daddy issues, though? I get that they wanted to keep it as a surprised but seems a tad out of nowhere, but, I'm definitely interested in seeing where they go.

 

Over all? This is a prime example of why you shouldn't always listen to reviews. The ones I saw before the Pilot were pretty awful, but I was going to watch for Tom Ellis anyway, but I've watched all season because it's been so much fun from start to finish. I really hope they give it a fall start, I don't want to have to wait until mid season!

Edited April 26, 2016 by Gigi43

[retrograde]

I'm actually going to miss this incredibly stupid show. Let's hope they don't screw up season two, as so many shows do.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I'm actually going to miss this incredibly stupid show. Let's hope they don't screw up season two, as so many shows do.

 

cough*SleepyHollow*cough

[thuganomics85]

Fare thee well, Malcolm!  I love Kevin Rankin and he was great in the role, but Malcolm was definitely a character that really would have worn out his welcome after the one season (or half, since I think that was when he was introduced), so hopefully he's has a nice, permanent spot in Hell now.  And it being a combination of Lucifer distracting him and Chloe shooting him, was perfect.  Well, maybe Trixie could have kicked him for the whole kidnapping thing, but I can understand why that might have been a bit much!

 

Besides that, I liked they didn't kill anyone off.  A brief scare with Amendial, but I'm glad Lucifer's feather came back into play, and Maze used it to save him, even if that apparently costs her a chance to go back "home."  Aww, Maze!  Getting soft on old Amendial, huh?

 

Enjoyed this episode pairing up Lucifer and Amendial kicking ass, and also having Chloe and Maze work together, and snip at each other (and a wee bit of flirting from Maze).  And then that scene with Dr. Linda and the brothers.  The cast really seems to work well together, and I like how they started mix and matching them, in the latter episodes.  Hope they keep it up.

 

Overall, a solid season finale.  They solved the main issue, but left a decent cliffhanger with Lucifer's "Mum" apparently escaping Hell, and her being someone that has Lucifer freaked out, is certainly interesting.  I wonder who she will be?  And who will get to play her?

 

This show definitely ended up being one of the more pleasant surprises of the year.  The first episodes were a bit formulaic and silly at times, but I felt they got it together in the second half.  A good example of giving a show time, and it paying off.  I just hope they keep at it for the second season, and don't fall into the trap that certain other enjoyable FOX shows, recently fell into.  

[jewel21]

I loved it. My only complaint was there wasn't enough Chloe/Luci for me. I did, however, love the Chloe/Maze interaction and that we got a glimpse of hell.

 

And, it was nice they brought back Heather Tom again.

 

I really wanted Lucifer to hug Trixie or vice versa.  So two complaints, haha.

 

I just hope season two will be as strong as this season has been.

[Rosiejuliemom]

I loved it. My only complaint was there wasn't enough Chloe/Luci for me. I did, however, love the Chloe/Maze interaction and that we got a glimpse of hell.

 

I really wanted Lucifer to hug Trixie or vice versa.  So two complaints, haha.

 

I just hope season two will be as strong as this season has been.

 

I kept waiting for Lucifer to pat Trixe on the head or something. Oh well. It was a minor thing in an otherwise excellent finale.

 

More Chloe/Lucifer would have been nice, but I did like the different pair-ups. Luci/Amenadude/Dr. Linda is something I need more of next season. Along with some Amenadude/Trixie interaction.

 

American accent Lucifer was gold. So was the devil on the paper airplane.

 

I was kind of touched by Luci calling Dan "Detective Espinoza" as he was surrendering and calling Chloe by her given name when he was talking to Dad.

[retrograde]

cough*SleepyHollow*cough

Mmmyeah, that's what I had in mind (and many others, but especially that). Sleepy Hollow season 1 was better (IMO) and more complicated (I think?), though, so I feel like this show is harder to screw up. All they have to keep doing is the exact same thing they're doing now with a slightly different villain. Surely they can do that...?

[Rosiejuliemom]

Mmmyeah, that's what I had in mind (and many others, but especially that). Sleepy Hollow season 1 was better (IMO) and more complicated (I think?), though, so I feel like this show is harder to screw up. All they have to keep doing is the exact same thing they're doing now with a slightly different villain. Surely they can do that...?

 

One would hope...

 

I think Lucifer will be fine as long as no long-dead wives show up.

[CheshireCat]

Don't know where to begin... great episode! Loved, loved, loved Lucifer and Amenadiel teaming up! The show could be about them wreaking havoc on earth and I'd watch it! They're just great together! Loved the scene when they fought against the drug dealers. That looked like so much fun (for them). The scene with the therapist was hilarious! Poor Dr Linda! But the trio of actors was just killing it!

But I kind of wish Lucifer would have gotten the chance to punish/really scare Malcolm just a bit more. He seemed to have earned that bit of fun. Oh well.

 

So, after his brief trip back to hell, is Lucifer still vulnerable around Chloe? And are his wings still burned or did he get new ones or does he not need them as the Lord of Hell? Though he is still an angel, even if he's a fallen one. And did Lucifer actually burn his coin or was that an illusion? (I guess we'll get (some) answers next season but I still had to ask)

 

I agree with those who said that Amenadiel could be injured because the knife was the "demon dagger forged in Hell". I would even think it would make sense if they could only "prick" Lucifer but actually hurt Amenadiel since Lucifer is the devil and they were forged where he rules.

 

And I also agree with those who say that they hope they won't mess up S2! Hopefully, they can keep up the excellent level of the show. I'm curious to see how they'll deal with Lucifer's exploration of his humanity though since that's not his primary reason for being on earth anymore. He's made a deal with his father to be the devil again, so it'll be interesting to see how they'll work that/Dr Linda into next season.

[vampdetective]

And thank HEAVENS....God is in the building.  That was the coolest touch of all.

 

I really like that God is a (somewhat) active presence on the show instead of the more common absentee father route that most fantasy TV shows do. *cough* Supernatural *cough*

 

Detective Dan turing herself in surpise me a lot. He going to jail for a long time. Why he do that? It seem so strange. They could say that Malcolm stole it and the LAPD could never prove it either way.

 

Dan told Lucifer that his greatest desire is for redemption. To be redeemed, he has to face the consequences of his bad actions, not get away with them. Although, I note that Dan confessed to giving the gun to Malcolm, but not to shooting Malcolm. Hopefully the writers were just keeping the scene short and Dan will come clean about everything later on. I also hope Dan won't be sent off to jail and written out of the show, since his relationship with Lucifer just got more complex and interesting. Since Malcolm was going to shoot Chloe, Dan's shooting was justified to save Chloe's life, so that could earn him some leniency.

 

My big complaint is I couldn't actually hear the end of Lucifer asking 'Dad' for help/save Chloe. I really thought for some reason that Chloe was going to run toward the exit, or back away just far enough that somehow the bleeding would stop if she were away.

 

I do wish that they'd have Chloe realize Lucifer is the devil by the of this season.So Lucifer and Amenadiel have a mother? I don't remember ever hearing about the mother of Angel's in Sunday School. Lucifer is so scared of her but spends all his time bitching about his daddy issues, though? I get that they wanted to keep it as a surprised but seems a tad out of nowhere, but, I'm definitely interested in seeing where they go.

 

Same here. I had to rewind the last bit of Lucifer's plea several times because I couldn't make out that he was saying to save Chloe. Can anyone quote his exact words? I ended up just assuming he said that from the context.

 

I also was really hoping that Chloe would realize he's the devil by the end of the season -- that's my only disappointment with this episode. However, I can forgive it (this time!) because I can understand the writers not wanting Chloe's revelation with the Mum revelation in the same episode since the impact of each would be lessened. But I hope they don't drag it out too long into season 2. Chloe as disbelieving partner is getting played out.

 

Lucifer could spend his time bitching about Dad because he had no reason to fear Mum when she was locked away in hell. Renady, a commenter on Reddit suggested this theory about who Mum is. I like it better than the Lilith theory.

 

Asherah is a goddess often associated with Bablyon, but is also mentioned in recent archaeological finds as "Yahweh and his Asherah," suggesting God had a wife at one point during early Judaism.

 

God having a wife (Heavenly Mother) is also a part of LDS (Mormon) religion. I wonder if Mum is the one who gave Chloe the "gift" of being immune to Lucifer and making him vulnerable as part of a plot to escape hell. She was locked away, but maybe she has loyal minions or some other way to have influence on earth.

[GaT]

MUM??????? I can't even imagine who that is, & does she have Maze?

 

I wish they had showed us Malcolm in hell again.

 

Is Amenadiel going to stay on Earth now? Is Dan gone from the show? I have QUESTIONS!!!

[Sandman87]

"Mum"? I'm going to assume that he doesn't mean his mum, but rather a mother. Lilith or someone like that. Unless they're drawing from outside the usual Judeo-Christian sources, in which case she could be a mythical being from another culture, like Tiamat (Babylonian) for instance, or Loki's mother Laufey (Norse).

 

Trivia note: While googling around to see if I could find any more info, I found a reference to a bit of old English folklore which holds that the Devil hanged his mother from a Rowan tree. I also found an explosive that's nicknamed "Mother of Satan" because it's so dangerous to work with.

[Happy Harpy]

I LOVED it. The finale pretty much gave me everything I wanted, bar a Trixifer hug...but Lucifer's shirt was soaked in blood so pass.

There's nothing I enjoy more than watching a show where I like every character (I and even liked Det.Douche in this one) and here it's exactly what happened. The cast working so well together is definitely a huge strength of this show.

 

The session with Dr.Linda was simply priceless. Maybe the best scene of the whole show. "Trust me, it's a fight you don't want to pick", LOL. DB Woodside and Tom Ellis rank very high in the top brother chemistry of all times, for me.

 

I didn't expect Maze and Chloe to work together, not so early and it was an excellent idea. I kind of hoped that Maze would help saving her friend Trixie but I did love the scene with Amenadiel she had instead.

 

Poor Lucifer, at the beginning of the episode he had his heart broken and he didn't even know it. It seems that he doesn't understand his feelings more than Maze does hers, nice parallel. And he was a bit overwhelmed by his sacrifice at the end, wasn't he? It's the impression I had, at least.

I don't mind wherever they take the Chloe/Lucifer relationship but I hope that friendship and trust will always be the first component of it.

 

Do the showrunners ever plan for Chloe and the others to discover that Lucifer is the Devil? I have the feeling that for now, the writers are quite comfortable with their "no one believes it". I could see it be a BFD kept for November sweeps (for example).

 

I, too, hope that Malcolm is dead and buried. He was a good villain but I don't see him as a reccurring Big Bad.

 

Now, the mom thing is interesting and it paves the way for more brothers unite so I'm all for it.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Happy Harpy

[vampdetective]

Don't know where to begin... great episode! Loved, loved, loved Lucifer and Amenadiel teaming up! The show could be about them wreaking havoc on earth and I'd watch it! They're just great together! Loved the scene when they fought against the drug dealers. That looked like so much fun (for them). The scene with the therapist was hilarious! Poor Dr Linda! But the trio of actors was just killing it!

 

So, after his brief trip back to hell, is Lucifer still vulnerable around Chloe? And are his wings still burned or did he get new ones or does he not need them as the Lord of Hell? Though he is still an angel, even if he's a fallen one. And did Lucifer actually burn his coin or was that an illusion? (I guess we'll get (some) answers next season but I still had to ask)

 

I agree with those who said that Amenadiel could be injured because the knife was the "demon dagger forged in Hell". I would even think it would make sense if they could only "prick" Lucifer but actually hurt Amenadiel since Lucifer is the devil and they were forged where he rules.

 

And I also agree with those who say that they hope they won't mess up S2! Hopefully, they can keep up the excellent level of the show. I'm curious to see how they'll deal with Lucifer's exploration of his humanity though since that's not his primary reason for being on earth anymore. He's made a deal with his father to be the devil again, so it'll be interesting to see how they'll work that/Dr Linda into next season.

 

The only thing that bugged me about the fight with the drug dealers was that neither Lucifer nor Amenadiel got any bullet holes in their clothes when in the pilot and in "St. Lucifer" (just two episodes ago!) it was established that Luicfer's clothes aren't as immortal as he is. Are the writers that forgetful?! Gah!

 

I feel so bad for Dr. Linda. She's really been used and abused. I hope her friendship with Maze is developed more in season 2, or the writers find some other way to develop her outside of the therapist job.

 

I was a bit confused about the coin. I assumed Lucifer died, went to hell, then God sent him back to earth, both to answer Luci's prayer and because God has a new job for him. But the impression I got when Lucifer was taunting Malcolm with the coin is that Lucifer used the coin to get out of hell (he somehow swiped it earlier from Malcolm?) and it disintegrated because it was used up. I'll have to pay closer attention when I rewatch the ep.

 

I think Lucifer is still wingless and vulnerable around Chloe because it would be too easy for his powers to be "reset" that quickly. Getting his wings back and figuring out the mystery of Chloe should be big stories on their own, not the side effect of something else.

 

I thought Lucifer's comment about the dagger pricking him was just understatement, like how he told Chloe's boss that Chloe's gunshot hardly hurt when just a moment before he was telling Chloe it really hurt. I assume those daggers are what Maze used to cut off his wings, which must have been excruciating. The daggers being shaped like wings would be an especially ironic reminder of that for Lucifer too.

 

I think Lucifer will have plenty of opportunities to continue exploring his humanity in season 2 since he'll still be interacting with Chloe and other humans. He may not be intentionally seeking it out the way he did this season, but it's going to happen anyway as he faces new situations and challenges.

 

So in season 2, will Lucifer be working regular cases with Chloe and hunting Mum with Amendiel on the side? I hope not! That's another reason for Chloe to start believing in Lucifer sooner rather than later -- if the show goes more supernatural in season 2, keeping Chloe in the dark would really sideline her character, kind of like how Dan and the world of Palmetto St. felt like an unimportant side plot until Malcolm was brought back to life and put in the main story arc. Also, finding out that there are worst things out there than the devil would be one way of softening the blow and making Chloe less horrified and/or fearful to find out that she's friends with the devil.

Edited April 26, 2016 by vampdetective

[Bruinsfan]

I was thinking some primordial monster/mother goddess figure like Tiamat for "Mum" myself, as Lilith should be a comparatively recent and lesser creation of Yahweh's by Lucifer's standards. Whatever she is, she's apparently personified enough to be kept in a cell in Hell, which would tend to rule out something abstract like the void before creation as Yahweh's equal and opposite.

 

I'm not so keen on a two-bit human creep like Malcolm being able to nearly kill an archangel with a Hell-forged weapon. I'd think that Amenadiel, Lucifer, and their ilk should have a vast superiority over run of the mill demons. Otherwise Lucifer's rulership of Hell doesn't seem like it would be particularly stable if any disgruntled or overly ambitious demon could depose him with the equivalent of a sucker punch.

[Sulador]

All of that. Best episode of the season by far. I wouldn't think Lilith for Mum, though, as she was God-created and human, as Adam's first and equal wife who basically said screw this submission  to a man trip and flaked off, leaving rib-created Eve to pick up the slack. The wife of God in the Torah, I think, was called the Shekinah, but that is more of a title, not a name. Astarte, Tanit, Asherah, Tiamat are all goddess possibilities. Let us all hope they don 't make Mum the Blessed Virgin Mary gone dark side. But I don't like to think of any of them in Hell. Sigh: can't wait for next season...

Edited April 26, 2016 by Sulador

[vampdetective]

Rewatched the bit about the coin. (Thank you iTunes!) Lucifer tells Malcolm (holding up the coin), "I know a guy. Apparently he wants me back here," and when the coin disintegrates, "Sorry, pal. One use only."

 

So it looks like God took the coin from Malcolm and gave it to Lucifer, which enabled Lucifer to leave hell and go back to earth. I wonder if this was God killing two birds with one stone, or does it mean that without angel wings or the coin, not even God can release Lucifer from hell?

 

Malcolm is not a long term bad guy, this was his time to go but I have to hand it to Kevin Rankin, he was an entertaining batshit nutcase. When Chloe and Trixie were hugging he made the motion in the background putting the gun to his own head, I couldn't help it I bursted out laughing.

 

Ha! I missed that the first time around but caught it now.

[johntfs]

I was thinking some primordial monster/mother goddess figure like Tiamat for "Mum" myself, as Lilith should be a comparatively recent and lesser creation of Yahweh's by Lucifer's standards. Whatever she is, she's apparently personified enough to be kept in a cell in Hell, which would tend to rule out something abstract like the void before creation as Yahweh's equal and opposite.

 

I'm not so keen on a two-bit human creep like Malcolm being able to nearly kill an archangel with a Hell-forged weapon. I'd think that Amenadiel, Lucifer, and their ilk should have a vast superiority over run of the mill demons. Otherwise Lucifer's rulership of Hell doesn't seem like it would be particularly stable if any disgruntled or overly ambitious demon could depose him with the equivalent of a sucker punch.

 

Yeah, but they bound their essences into human forms with humanish biology.  That way they can eat, sleep, fuck and, under certain circumstances, die.  While their innate divine (Lucifer is still and angel) nature protects them from most harms, a weapon of the divine (including a blade from Hell) can kill them while they're on Earth.  Trying to kill Lucifer in Hell or Amenadiel in Heaven would likely be far more difficult, especially for a human.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't know, Lucifer looked pretty human-ish in that scene in Hell. In any event, I'd have preferred it if Malcolm were maybe able to scratch Amenadiel with the blade, but the equivalent of an annoying paper cut rather than a mortal wound. If Mazikeen's blades pose that much of a threat wielded by a not-terribly athletic human being, I don't see how he could be so dismissive of any chance of her winning their fight earlier in the season when we've clearly seen her demonstrate greater-than-human physical ability and fighting skills.

[ProudMary]

On 4/26/2016 at 5:15 AM, vampdetective said:

Rewatched the bit about the coin. (Thank you iTunes!) Lucifer tells Malcolm (holding up the coin), "I know a guy. Apparently he wants me back here," and when the coin disintegrates, "Sorry, pal. One use only."

So it looks like God took the coin from Malcolm and gave it to Lucifer, which enabled Lucifer to leave hell and go back to earth. I wonder if this was God killing two birds with one stone, or does it mean that without angel wings or the coin, not even God can release Lucifer from hell?

Perhaps "Dad" returned the coin to Lucifer, that was my assumption on first watch.  Then yesterday I was reading comments on the finale from other sites--I had to shop around with PTV down for revamp all day!--and came across a good theory about possession of the coin.  When Lucifer first gives the coin to Malcolm, it's conditional:  Don't shoot me and you can have my coin to get yourself out of hell.  Malcolm broke his deal with the Devil when he shot Lucifer, returning it to its owner.

On 4/26/2016 at 2:56 AM, vampdetective said:

 

Same here. I had to rewind the last bit of Lucifer's plea several times because I couldn't make out that he was saying to save Chloe. Can anyone quote his exact words? I ended up just assuming he said that from the context.

After telling "Dad" that he'll follow the plan and do whatever He wants/needs him to do he says, "All I ask in return is that you protect Chloe."    I pretty much melted at that point. :)

[Lee4U]

Loved the scenes with the brothers; the actors have good chemistry - each with different type of energy and style.  They work really well together.  I did love the therapy session - 

Can't wait to see who they end up casting as "mum" - yikes.

[pivot]

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that Chloe could realize Lucifier is really the devil and want to still work with or be near him. No matter how fun he seems as a human, he's the DEVIL and not to be messed with. I can't see how she wouldn't be terrified of him.

[storyskip]

On 4/26/2016 at 3:53 AM, vampdetective said:

And I also agree with those who say that they hope they won't mess up S2! Hopefully, they can keep up the excellent level of the show. I'm curious to see how they'll deal with Lucifer's exploration of his humanity though since that's not his primary reason for being on earth anymore. He's made a deal with his father to be the devil again, so it'll be interesting to see how they'll work that/Dr Linda into next season.

 

We don't know if that was the deal.  It could be sure but I think he'd have been staying in Hell if that was the deal "Dad" wanted from him.  I think in sending him back to Earth "Dad" has reassigned him.

Personally, given the wording Lucifer offered his father I take it more as Lucifer was accepting the one thing he'd been rebelling against all his life. Predestination. "I will do, whatever it is you've predestined is to be my fate and accept it willingly; if you protect Chloe."  So effectively Lucifer bent his knee to his father and accepted Heaven's command over him.

It looks like Heaven's command, at least for the time being is to act as an agent of Heaven and retrieve "Mum".  

Edited April 27, 2016 by storyskip

[rainsmom]

Lilith is often called "Mother of Demons." I found something on the Web (which is always infallibly factual) that said Lilith and Samael rebelled and were cast out. On Earth Lilith conceived the Mazikim by Adam, but ultimately refused to be subservient and left him. When angels slaughtered most of the Mazikim, Lilith vowed her line would dominate.

Seems like it would be an easy fit into this mythology and a solid plot line for season 2.

[mspaul]

On 4/26/2016 at 1:59 AM, GaT said:

MUM??????? I can't even imagine who that is, & does she have Maze?

RIGHT??!!  At the end, I was like, "But where's Maze?!"  It seems extremely suspect that she wasn't with them at the end.  If she is missing for most of the second season I will be very put out.

[emma675]

I loved it! And I hated that the forums were down yesterday because I couldn't wait to get in here and talk about it.

Dr. Linda, Amenadiel and Lucifer in the group session was just hysterical. Those boys owe her, she really is fantastic. And I adored the playfulness that Amenadiel had now that he and Luci were on the same side. I hope they team up together more, they really are fun together. I also really enjoyed Maze and Chloe working together. 

Quote

When Lucifer first gives the coin to Malcolm, it's conditional:  Don't shoot me and you can have my coin to get yourself out of hell.  Malcolm broke his deal with the Devil when he shot Lucifer, returning it to its owner.

Interesting theory. I could not figure out how Lucifer got the coin away from Malcolm, he was never close enough to pickpocket him. 

[Zipper]

That was a really, really good season finale!!  In no particular order:

-Amenadude and Luci; I've had some issues with the righteousness of Amenadude in some episodes, particularly after it became clear he would risk human life to enforce the destiny on Luci-- what can I say, I like this particular devil among us and so the enforcement of The Will against Luci's free will put me at odds with some of Amenadude's moments.  But together they were awesome, and the use of the word 'brother' actually sounded like an endearment instead of a curse.

-Dan the Man; it's my Kevin Alejandro thing but I always wanted him to be better than a douchey ex with blame issues, and this was a good way to redeem him, while holding the door open.  Particularly glad Chloe punched him in the beez, her moral outrage came off nicely and well-earned.

-Dr. Linda; she's the best, and I'm so glad she showed up here to call some BS on the brothers.  Here's hoping Rachel Harris is open for next year, and that the writers find a way to integrate her into the season that uses her talents.

-Maze and Chloe; that moment when Chloe lands on Maze and she observes what Luci might see in Chloe was so fun.  And a little steamy, in the best teasing sense.

-Chloe getting her shit together to maybe go die for Trixie; those scenes, from the phone call to walking away from Luci and his imaginary bazooka were well done by Ms. German-- frightened, pissed, and committed. 

-Luci's plea to Dad, his acceptance of his chosen fate, and his seeking protection for Chloe.  Tom Ellis has been so great in this role, over-the-top when the scene requires, shocked to his monkey bottoms with his own emotion/growth/development in others.  Well done, sir.

RIP Detective Stache, you screwed with the wrong brothers. 

I cannot WAIT to find out who Mum is and what is horrifying enough to scare Luci.  They really set up Season 2 well, and with this kind of send off I have high hopes for next year.  I hope those of you guessing about something larger than Lilith are right-- bringing in that kind of epic biblical/mythical entity bodes well to pull us out of the CotW format, and I'm all for it.

Lastly, I've become a little less worried about when Chloe learns about Luci as the Devil, and presumably Amenadude as an archangel.  Luci was gut-shot and then fine, saving her daughter's life and her own.  They have come full circle on Chloe's ability to trust Luci with the things most dear to her, and that buys him a lot of latitude.  So a season 2 reveal/acceptance would seem credible, but I can also see how they might push that into another season, after giving us more details about how Chloe works.  Yay show!!

-

[Bruinsfan]

I don't really see how Chloe can ignore all the mounting evidence that Lucifer is a supernatural being. He literally disappeared in front of her eyes when that twitchy rookie cop shot him, and then was walking around without a scratch after she saw him get shot by Malcolm and end up lying in a pool of his own blood.

I too really liked that Chloe got to have a confrontation with Dan and call him out on leaving her twisting in the wind over the Palmetto case. He let her go it alone against a whole department that looked upon her as a traitor, effectively gaslighting her, when at the very least he could have told her he believed her about Malcolm and spared her so much anguish even while continuing to protect his own ass.

[Arthur]

If you haven't done so, watch this episode with Closed Captioning enabled. I didn't pick up first watching it that Malcolm called Amenadiel "Amenadude" and that Lucifer actually dies (captioning states his heart had stopped).  What a great episode!

[Arthur]

What really happened at Palmetto Street? Yup, Dan shoots Malcolm to protect Chloe but what were Dan and Malcolm doing there in the first place? For that matter, how did Chloe know to be there?  Who dropped the LAPD pin in the cellar? Why didn't Dan just say he was stopping Malcolm from shooting Chloe?

Not that it matters much (at least so far) but it has been bugging me.

[Helena Dax]

21 hours ago, pivot said:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that Chloe could realize Lucifier is really the devil and want to still work with or be near him. No matter how fun he seems as a human, he's the DEVIL and not to be messed with. I can't see how she wouldn't be terrified of him.

I think it could work. We know him and we aren't afraid of him. After everything she's seen, she knows he isn't a bad guy. Chloe might think that Christianity had it wrong and Lucifer isn't actually an evil being who corrupts innocents, but an angel who wants to punish those who deserved it.

Loved the episode. The different pairings worked very well, the cast has got a lot of chemistry. I like the theory that Lucifer got his coin back because Malcolm shot him and broke the deal. But I don't think he really needed it, this time: God wanted him back on Earth too and He could have sent him there without a coin. The point was to stop Malcolm from using it. Which is interesting too because it seems that there are some things that God can't or won't do, like ignoring the coin and sending Malcolm to Hell anyway.

I didn't like Amenadiel at the beginning, but he became interesting when he hooked up with Maze and I love the relationship he's got now with Lucifer.

Chloe needs to find out the truth next season. She can't keep pretending everything has a logical explanation much longer.

[rainsmom]

1 hour ago, Helena Dax said:

We know him and we aren't afraid of him.

In fairness, we don't exist in the story world. We know he's an actor playing Satan. If I, in my world, discovered someone I knew was a supernatural being -- much less one of ill-repute -- it would definitely change how I viewed and interacted with them.

[Bruinsfan]

If I thought someone I knew who was charming and fun to be around was the literal Devil, I'd be cozying up to him like a mofo. I'm a big believer in retirement planning!

[storyskip]

Not to mention one of the key themes of the show is Lucifer's struggle with/against who he actually is and who he's made out to be.

Some of his most heartfelt speeches have centered around the argument of did God punish him with Hell or gift him with Hell?  Was his punishment Hell or was his punishment to have his name vilified and all mortal sins/disobedience laid at his feet as his fault.

"I'm not evil.  I punish evil!"

I think maybe the theme of his existential crisis got muddled a little with everything else going on in this season but something Lucifer has struggled with since the Pilot is a sort of "who am I?"  In the pilot when Maze hits him with "Stop caring, you're the devil" and he is thoughtful before heading over to set up his therapy sessions with Dr. Linda.  He's obviously been struggling with the idea that he's to blame for all mortal sin, since before he left Hell and it's gotten worse as he's been on Earth and witnessed humans sinning against each other.

In a way there is a child-like horror to him when he sees first hand what mortals are capable of doing against one another; the petty thug who killed for money,  the music producer, Benny Cho, the sports agent who murdered for ego/money, Malcolm and his true evil.  There is sadness in him when he connects to the innocent victims, whether he knows them or not; Delilah, Ally Thornton, Father Frank, Yellow Viper, the two 'Satan' worshipers.  In many ways Lucifer has expressed (and Chloe has witnessed him expressing) more empathy for mortals than Amenadiel, who shamelessly used humans both guilty and innocent in his machinations against Lucifer.

True, once he locks onto the individual responsible for the atrocity, his anger is fearsome but again, each time Chloe has witnessed him, she's only ever had to talk to him to get him to back down.  If you think about it, the only time when he didn't listen to her pleas was when he was begging for his own death. 

Words vs Actions

Why should Chloe fear him?  Because of the stories about the Devil?  The Myth?  Lucifer has said, ranted and railed, time and again that he is not the myth and I would argue that Chloe has no reason not to believe him and if one thing is consistent about her character it's the fact that she is supposed to be more impressed with what she can see, than what she hears.  After all, be pretty hypocritical of her to judge Lucifer on what is said about him, rather than what she's seen, given that he never once believed the gossip of Palmetto vs what he saw in Chloe. 

[Zipper]

On 4/27/2016 at 11:17 AM, pivot said:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around the idea that Chloe could realize Lucifier is really the devil and want to still work with or be near him. No matter how fun he seems as a human, he's the DEVIL and not to be messed with. I can't see how she wouldn't be terrified of him.

I did too, for a long time.  For someone who doesn't believe, learning that the devil exists, as does God and the angels, and heaven and hell, that could blow a mind (or millions of minds).  But I keep thinking about alternate versions of Satan, like the one Lucifer has been describing all season:  capable of great power, but only a punisher once the deeds are done of free will here; not evil at all, just a tool of this God's universe.  If I didn't have years of church that colored my view of religion (in a way I can't unknow even if I don't believe), then really it's about the guy in front of Chloe.  He saved her life twice, saved Trixie's life, fought for justice on behalf of innocents, and has become someone she trusts.  So if she accepts his version of the Devil, and sees the value in having a supernatural partner-- no mind bending terror.  Maybe that's part of her immunity-- a lack of fear.

[dragonsbite]

1 hour ago, storyskip said:

Some of his most heartfelt speeches have centered around the argument of did God punish him with Hell or gift him with Hell?  Was his punishment Hell or was his punishment to have his name vilified and all mortal sins/disobedience laid at his feet as his fault.

"I'm not evil.  I punish evil!"

THIS.

I hadn't considered this point of view before. But it really makes more sense for a parent to punish a rebellious / arrogant child (who thinks he doesn't need to abide by his father's rules) by ruining the child's sterling reputation and allowing that child to be blamed for everyone else's sins.  As opposed to giving the son a primo job where father and son are constantly at war for everyone's souls.

I love this show for challenging my (rather lapsed in action) Roman Catholic beliefs. I cannot wait for Season 2.

Edited April 28, 2016 by dragonsbite
ETA: "(who thinks he doesn't need to abide by his father's rules)"