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ari333

Cheers

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I can only fanwank that Sam told Diane he wanted her to have a ring, since she got none from either Sumner nor Frasier.

 

Fair enough, but Diane insisting on having the box, and Sam keeping it from her that he basically got the same ring at a wholesale price veered too close to Lucy-and-Ricky land for my taste.

 

If the show really had guts, the season would have ended with the Simon Finch-Royce episode and S&D sadly acknowledging that they had no business getting married.

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Stumbling on this old New York Times article from around the series finale in 1993 and it carried this accurate observation from one of the co-creators:

 

"I think there's clearly a 'Cheers 1' and a 'Cheers 2,' " said Glen Charles. Part one was the Shelley Long era, when the romance between Sam and Diane Chambers became the hottest and funniest sexual relationship on television. During "Cheers 2" the show moved toward a more equitable mix involving all the characters, with Ms. Alley's Rebecca becoming Sam's friend rather than a target for his unquenchable lust.

"Maybe there was even a 'Cheers 2' and '3,' " said Les Charles. As he sees it, the last six years break down like this: three years of character comedy and three of "more screwball comedy." A recent episode about Woody's wedding, for example, had enough physical stunts to qualify as French bedroom farce.

 

 

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I am bringing my question here that I originally posted on the Norm topic.

 

I have been watching the reruns of Cheers. It's been a long while since I watched the show in syndication. Was there an episode where a guy walks into a bar and the crowd yells his name out to the man just like they did to Norm? I am thinking there was a scene where someone, either Sam or Woody, worked at another bar, possibly in Mexico or Tahiti, and this patron walks in and that is what happened. Am I dreaming or did such a scene happen? Did it happen on another show maybe and I am just confusing it with Cheers? I have scanned through the online episode guides, but they don't help me. I'd appreciate the help.

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Can you help me with another episode?

 

There is an episode where Sam and Rebecca are about to have sex. Sam is trying to take off his pants, I believe. They are on a couch and I think Sam is going crazy trying to disrobe. Do you happen to know the title of that episode?

Edited by GreatKazu
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I like later when Sam was having dreams about Rebecca revealed she was wearing a mask and it was the old man with the hat who always sits at the back side of the bar, and Sam woke up screaming!

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RE: The Variety article

If the creatives still feel like Sam and Diane shouldn't be together then I don't need a reunion.

I watched a lot of the show in reruns on Nick at Nite or whatever the equivalent was when I watched it. I loved the Sam and Diane relationship. I'm finishing up 30 Rock and they mention something about how Sam and Diane ended up together which is not what I remembered so I looked it up (thanks, Netflix). God, it's still a disappointment to me. I loved that relationship so much and while I also enjoyed some of the Rebecca years, it was never as good to me. I'm not sure I want to go back and watch the whole thing from the beginning (the same way I don't want to sit down and watch all of all Law & Order but I'll totally get sucked into a TV marathon) but I might if there was a way I could end it feeling like they did end up together. Maybe just stop at the episode where she leaves and Sam imagines them together in their old age.

Or just pretend that maybe they still had doubts on that flight but after spending even more time apart, Diane came back to the bar and they finally got together for good. To me that ending says "we shouldn't get married now" but not that "we shouldn't ever be together in the future." I agree though that it felt like lingering bitterness towards Shelley Long since everything in the earlier episodes did feel like S&D had met their person. Not that "they were not the right person for one another."

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It doesn't help that Frasier (the show) didn't do anything about the Sam and Diane canon during its run.  I always thought it would be nice fan service to have Frasier mention that Sam and Diane had gotten back together--even in passing. I guess the Charles brothers really did not want them together!

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On 8/12/2018 at 7:17 PM, cpcathy said:

It doesn't help that Frasier (the show) didn't do anything about the Sam and Diane canon during its run.  I always thought it would be nice fan service to have Frasier mention that Sam and Diane had gotten back together--even in passing. I guess the Charles brothers really did not want them together!

My wife and I have been binge watching the series. We just finished season 5 and you could just see how even though they knew Shelly Long was leaving. They were giving us every reason to be happy when Diane left the series. When Season 6 begins, you see almost a tonal shift from Carla to Fraiser, now granted we had Fraiser and Lilth getting married and later having Fred and then later divorcing. However, Carla just seems to be missing her "hate on" and while they try and move it towards Kristie Alley, it just doesn't work the same. I do feel you could split Cheers into two halves, the Diane Years and the Rebecca Years. During the Diane Years, everyone is set in their ways and little change. During the Rebecca Years, you see major changes from Norm basically taking Diane's advice and do something he has a love for. Carla realizing she needs to fix her own life and Sam realizing if he wouldn't have been so set in his ways for so long, his life would have been different. Cliff never changes, Fraiser goes through the most the next six years of the series along with Woody and Sam comes to finally realize that the bar has been his one love that has always been there. 

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I've been rewatching this bc it's been airing on TV. I like both the Diane and Rebecca years, but season 5 - Diane's last season- really dragged. I was ready for it to be over about half way through. I also don't think Sam and Diane were a good match. It always seemed like their relationship was mainly physical, and I assumed the sex was better when they were angry or making up lol. 

The one ep in s.5 that is really good is when Sam and Diane go for dinner to Frasier and Lilith's, and Lilith finds out about Diane and Frasier's history. 

I've seen 6.1 and 6.2, and Rebecca is just a breath of fresh air at that point.

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I’ve been rewatching the show, too.  Awhile ago, I had been watching just a selection of episodes from certain seasons, and this time, I have been watching whole seasons (on Netflix).  A few random thoughts:

Lilith is really an amazing character, and I realized in this rewatch that she is actually probably my favorite.  You wouldn’t think from her first appearance (when she has a short, disastrous date with Frasier that really wasn’t the thrust of the episode and wasn’t even really a showcase for Bebe Newirth) that she would become a such a scene-stealer or that they would even bother to have her back.  Her next episode (where she and Frasier do the TV show and Frasier is insanely attracted to her when Diane gives her a makeover) was a great launching pad for her character, though.   I didn’t really buy her affair, though.  I know that she stated her reasons, but I just saw it as an implausible way for her to be written off.  I did really enjoy Rebecca’s reaction to discovering the affair, though.  Kirstie Alley’s acting in that short scene was quite funny (including how confident Revecca was that she could not keep a secret).

Frasier is also an amazing character.  Usually being the third point of a love triangle is not a way to endear that character to the audience, but the studio audience reaction (applause) to a speech Frasier gave to Diane and Sam about how Diane and Sam are still in love with each other really shows how the writers and Kelsey Grammer developed Frasier into more than third wheel.

Sam has an interesting quality of being very congenial and sympathetic to “sad sacks.”  He gives Diane a job when she has nowhere else to go; he gives both Frasier and Nick (Carla’s ex) janitor jobs when they are at low points, and pretends to be depressed for Frasier’s benefit.  It’s kind of a non-judgmental, go-with-the-flow quality.

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Sam is one of the most layered characters I've seen in a sitcom. He's not just ladies' man, he's insecure, especially when he's with Diane. He's savvy but not booksmart, he loves his friends, his bar and he apologizes very easily when he realizes he's wrong. Mike Schur of The Good Place said Sam is a great character because as the main character, he has to be likeable but not so likeable he's bland. Sam is super flawed, but not unlikeable at all.

Edited by cpcathy
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@Peace 47 totally agree Lillith and Frasier are great. It's amazing how well the show transitioned to including them. Definitely two of my favourites. I missed the episode you mentioned in my rewatch, I'll have to see if it's online somewhere. I had a crush on Bebe Neuwirth for the longest time. 

2 hours ago, cpcathy said:

Sam is one of the most layered characters I've seen in a sitcom.

Totally agree. Sam is a great character. It's interesting watching him- with all the comeons to women, the pressure on Rebecca to sleep with him, the shallowness- I'm not sure as a character he would get the greenlight from a network today. But he's really not an asshole. Even with all the emphasis on casual sex, he seems to really care that a) the women enjoy it and b) they are willing. 

Like there was an ep where Rebecca lost a bet and was going to sleep with him, and she was so not into it, Sam was like forget it. Of course they played it like a joke that she acted not into it to get him to give up, but still remains he wasn't into it if she was acting forced/unhappy. 

As a kid watching I really shipped them, but as an adult I enjoy them as friends. 

Random questions: 

I'm on season 6. Was this the first time Carla's kids were introduced? 'Antony' and his wife? 

Also are there any good sources for behind the scenes info? I know there were some reunions/anniversaries the last few years I didn't pay much attn at the time.

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We've seen "Antny" before season six, I believe. We also saw Ludlow and Seraphina.

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1 hour ago, cleo said:

Also are there any good sources for behind the scenes info? I know there were some reunions/anniversaries the last few years I didn't pay much attn at the time.

@cleo, you might want to check out Ken Levine's blog; he was one of the writers on the show. He does "Friday questions" every week, so you can read his archives, or (if you have a specific question) you can ask him and maybe he'll select it to answer.  

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YouTube is also useful for behind the scenes stuff, The Emmy Archives has interviewed Glen and Les Charles, Ken Levine and James Burrows. The interviews are short snippets but are really interesting. The Charles brothers and Burrows were also interviewed by Bob Costas ahead of the finale back in 1993, they shared some good insight. 

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Cheers is currently available on ITunes for $20. Not one season, the entire series. Couldn't believe it.

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