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S12.E21: You're Gonna Need Someone on Your Side

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Stephanie's relationship to Kyle becomes complicated. Meanwhile, Meredith encourages Amelia and Owen to take a chance and choose to be a real couple. Arizona and Callie are at odds and put their friends in the middle of an uncomfortable situation.

 

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I felt so sad for Vincent the doorman. :((

This storyline and custody fight is not making Callie likeable at all. If she feels the need to have to justify why she is leaving to an OR roomful of her colleagues - while she is asking them to testify for her - she probably shouldn't be doing it. She shouldn't think Alex would want to be a character witness for her over for Arizona, and at the end of the day she seemed disappointed that Arizona was professional and not awful to Penny when she was on her service.

And when Callie was trying to get Alex on her side she mentioned that she was talking to him as a friend, as a doctor, as a peds doctor, one that knows what is best for children - does she not trust Arizona full-time with Sofia?

Edited by LexieLily
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First thoughts on the ep,

1. How many 'oh no, is there something wrong with the Japril baby' fake outs are they going to do?

2. Thank you Arizona for speaking for most Grey's fans, "She's everywhere, just back off!" lol 

3. I kinda don't care anymore if Callie goes or not.

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I can't watch them mess with Jackson and April again. This had better be a fake-out, designed for them to realize that Arizona can't be both their friend, and their doctor.

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I feel for Owen and Amelia in their indecision about being together. I went through the same kind of on-off, should-we-shouldn't-we thing myself, in tenth grade.

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Godamnit. And the award for overreaction to everything goes to ... almost everyone. Geez. Wow you know everyone is emotionally out of control when Meredith is becoming the voice of reason.

Is this a cross promotion for Captain America:Civil War since ABC is owned by Disney to have a Grey's version of civil war where people are choosing sides over Bailey/Ben and Arizona/Callie? Because we need Webber or Mer (wow I can't believe I said that) to smack some common sense into ALL four of them. I feel like the custody battle is going to become so heated that someone is going to do something really stupid. I mean because Arizona dropped out being April's doctor are they implying/foreshadowing she's going to run away with Sophia?

Okay show will you please stop torturing April/Jackson with the baby. Are we going to be inflicted with high alert near health scares every week until that baby is popped out just to manufacture drama/storyline? I don't think the audience can take another dead-Avery baby, that's just become emotional torture porn.

Man, that was cold dismissing the doorman like that. He would rather spend the last months of his life living with a lie and miss out an opportunity to be with the one you love. He should have at least be honest to both his wife and the other guy (I can't remember his name right now).

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I thought it was pretty dull overall, one of the more boring episodes this season. 

I'm glad the Japril baby is ok. It would have been way too much, even for Grey's, to give their second baby some other awful medical condition. April could have brought it down a notch but I can understand how emotional the situation was for her. She lashes out when upset but I give her a pass on this one after what she went through with Samuel. I do hope we're done with any medical issues for April and/or the baby now.

Bailey/Ben give me a headache. She's Chief of Surgery yet brings her personal crap into the OR and drags other doctors into it. Loudly. 

I don't care about Stephanie & Kyle. We know nothing about him or their relationship and they've been together like a week off screen. I did feel bad for him that she didn't even have the decency (at least yet) to tell him to his face.

LOL, Meredith's kids disappeared between the house and the car.

Not new - Meredith confuses me. I do not understand at all how she can instantly side with Callie. Her kids were without their father all the time Derek was in DC and since he died. I would expect someone with her history to at least take some time to consider how being away from one of her parents would be for Sofia. 

I think Amelia and Owen will be toast. Being all happy a couple of episodes before the finale plus the talk of screwing it up lead me to think its all going to blow up. Maybe one will cheat, the Grey's way. Meredith was quite impressed with Owen's junk as she kept talking about it all day.

I felt so bad for Vincent the doorman. 

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I like your format GreysFan89 :)

My thoughts of the Ep:

1. Why is April such a hysterical nut job? And is it just me or does Jesse Williams only have one expression? That kinda confused and angry tilted look.

2. Arizona going off at Penny is the highlight. But seriously, Penny really is everywhere. 

3. The mention of Hunt's penis had more screen time than Alex

4. At this point, I won't miss Callie if she goes. Never have I hated a character, but Callie is making it very difficult for me to understand why she's going through all this unnecessary mess. 

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Why is Arizona an OBGYN all of a sudden? Some of the medical inaccuracies in the show drive me insane. Like how the surgeons seem to run the ED with no emergency docs in sight, the fact that Ben as an anaesthesiologist would have no problem running a code normally etc... I remember in an earlier season when Addison was listing off all the fellowships she had completed it would have taken something like 15+ years to be qualified in all the stuff she was claiming.

 

April back to sucking after a mild bump in my estimations last week.

The doorman/patient storyline was great. Really sad but well done.

 

I like the actor playing Dr. DeLuca but they've really not given him any storyline of significance or characterisation whatsoever apart from being the new hot intern.

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It looks like they have made Callie increasingly unlikable this season so when or if the actress exits the show, viewers won't miss her. 

And if this isn't the plan, then who on Earth thought that Callie and Penny were a good enough fit to make Callie act unlike herself and forge ahead for a simpleton resident while creating a mess of her daughter's life and her successful career? 

And since when did the hospital have those outside steps? I don't like the new location production has chosen for hospital exteriors. 

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When we look back at Season 12, this installment will be overshadowed by bigger, more interesting episodes, but I'd like to note here that in its first-run I found the offering more solid than most, balancing lightness and darkness with ease and mitigating the show's requisite ridiculousness (both within the weekly plotting and the ongoing arcs) with a believable emotional substance. 

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This was definitely a boring episode, but not terrible.  I don't care too much about Bailey/Ben or Steph/Kyle so that definitely didn't help my enjoyment of it but overall it was just fine.  I really liked Amelia shutting down Stephanie with trying to be both a doctor and significant other, but then she has to go completely over act that last scene with Owen.  That relationship is so nonsensical.  I originally liked them together but its just not working.   When I watch their scenes the only thing I can think is "what is the purpose of this"?, which is not good.  

I was excited for most of the episode because I finally felt like the old Meredith was back.  But, then she was insistent that she supported Callie in the custody battle which was just what???  to me.   Meredith of all people knows TWO things, 1) what its like to lose a child (Zola) and 2) how hard it is on children to not see both of their parents (Derek when he was in DC and now dead).  I really felt like that was out of character.  I did like the patient story though, it was so sad.

Hello new hospital locations.  I knew they were filming at new locations from the spoilers but it seems weird they are suddenly at these new spots without any mention.  

Also, it only took until episode 20-21 but the writers FINALLY realized it was ridiculous for the sisters to carpool without any trace of the kids.  Yea, sure they disappeared once they got into the car....but at least there was a car seat in the car!!  I will just assumed the kids had been dropped off at school/daycare before they started with the sex talk.  

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5 minutes ago, Erratic said:

So, we all agree that Sara Ramirez is done after this season, right?

I'm really starting to think so. The only thing making me think otherwise is I don't think Shonda would write Callie out like this, her and SaRa seem to be really good friends, you'd think she would give her a better exit than this.

50 minutes ago, searims said:

3. The mention of Hunt's penis had more screen time than Alex

lol

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I can't see any way for her to stay. She has declared full commitment and love for Penny in three episodes in a row. She isn't involved in any other long term stories outside of Penny and custody of Sophia, and there is absolutely no way that this storyline is leading to a Calzona reunion.

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Just now, searims said:

Would Sara Ramirez get an exit like Sandra though?

Tbh, I assumed if she ever left she would. It is tricker because Callie has a kid but still I would have thought they'd give her an amazing new job and hot af boyfriend/girlfriend to live happily ever after with. lol 

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For a moment there, I almost liked Penny when she refused to say anything bad about Arizona to Callie. Don't get me wrong, i still think the character is a time suck and needs to go away. But...I am hoping this is resolved by her refusing to take Callie or turning down the fellowship. Twice now, we've seen her subtly hint that she doesn't agree with Callie's attitude on the custody issue. Maybe I'm just hoping for too much

The two old men was sad. I wish he'd spoken his truth.

I knew the sensible Amelia streak was an anomaly. I find it hard to root for a relationship where no one recognizes she was right in stating Owen was a threat to her sobriety, because he's hung or something.

Bailey is being such a sanctimonious, hypocritical prig that I want to root for Warren. but no, can't stand him either.

Please stop messing with the Avery baby. I'm happy Jerrika gets a story line, but Wilmer is so rskeevy IRL, I wish they'd gotten a different actor to play Kyle. 

I've decided to root for a Pierce/Riggs pairing. They seem to be the last sensible people left in this hospital.

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I wasn't surprised Meredith instantly sided with Callie.  If anybody can sympathize with uprooting your entire life and the life of your child on a stupid, selfish whim, it's Meredith.  I was more surprised that Hunt instantly chose a side and that Alex didn't.  Why was Callie upset that he didn't choose her side?  Him not  siding with Arizona is a win for Callie.  Seriously, Arizona is like his back-up Meredith and all Callie ever really did for him was have sex with him once.

And why the hell didn't Arizona go to Bailey?  Bailey clearly thinks Callie is certifiable right now.

Speaking of Bailey, it struck me as odd that Maggie was claiming that the only reason Ben wasn't fired is because his wife is the boss when it was she, Maggie, that gave the recommendation that he shouldn't have been punished at all and Bailey said that was pretty much the only reason he wasn't fired.

1 hour ago, windsprints said:

I think Amelia and Owen will be toast. Being all happy a couple of episodes before the finale plus the talk of screwing it up lead me to think its all going to blow up.

Maybe they got that out of the way now because his sister is going to magically appear soon.  And at least there was no mention of that stupid Riggs/Megan BS in this episode.

I wish Penny had been running interference on Arizona because then she wouldn't be the Saint Penny the Perfect this stupid show continued to push on us with her last scene.  GAH!  I've never hated a character this much.  I'd take ten seasons of Gizzie + Dead Denny threesomes over her.

Edited by Starscream
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How many times have we seen the storyline where someone is dying, has been married a long time, yet has a secret true love that he/she can't reveal? Many times. I did like the doorman but come on come up with something new. Penny continues to be annoying for no other reason than she just is. I used to work with this guy and one time somebody said "He is the kind of guy you just want to punch in the face for no reason" and that is kind of Penny (please note I am not advocating violence towards anyone).

I didn't mind the sex talk in the car, but I hate it when they are arguing or having long personal discussions while operating. If I knew my surgeon was operating while fighting with her husband I would be scared to death. You do need some level of concentration. Stephanie just doesn't appeal to me as a character-she just seems really cold. Probably a good thing for a real doctor, but not a TV one.

I like all of Maggie's clothes a lot and she has grown on me as a character.

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6 minutes ago, Starscream said:

I wasn't surprised Meredith instantly sided with Callie.  If anybody can sympathize with uprooting your entire life and the life of your child on a stupid, selfish whim, it's Meredith.  I was more surprised that Hunt instantly chose a side and that Alex didn't.  Why was Callie upset that he didn't choose her side?  Him not  siding with Arizona is a win for Callie.  Seriously, Arizona is like his back-up Meredith and all Callie ever really did for him was have sex with him once.

Considering Meredith's first baby is from adoption, I was surprised she was so quick to side with Callie instead of wanting to stay out of it. Callie is being such a dick. How DARE she ask mutual friends to hurt Arizona. It's insane. And NO one should be siding with the flighty idiot running across the country for an infantile relationship. Callie asking Alex to take her side, when AZ trained Alex, groomed him, grew him up and then took his place on the plane that crashed.... Girl has some nerve. And it was out of character for Alex to not chew her a new one.

I continue to play alone in the corner where I love Penny. She has such class. If she leaves, fine. She is actually too good for all these a-holes.

I'm distracted by Capshaw's pregnancy. So much bloat.

Once again, Dr. Mary Sue Maggie is a voice of reason. In fact, I enjoyed both Warren AND Baily getting a talking to, because neither are right and both are abusing their status as married couple. in the workplace.

I don't know why they are doing this to Owen again. He shouldn't be with Kristina because she didn't want kids, and he shouldn't be with Amelia because she needs to focus on her sobriety.... And yet no one can help themselves. 

Props to AZ for recognizing that April needs her as a friend more than as a physician. April was terrified from a horrific trauma and AZ got that. She will be a good friend. Let another doctor take the responsibility medically.

I liked Stephanie's arc.

I have to say I hate you, Callie. Who knew I could do that. I hate you. Even Penny is too good for you. This is so depressing.

Amelia's sisters are giving THE worst advice to her. As usual, pleasure takes precedent over common sense. I'm sad that the sisters are all getting along again, which I love, but now they are toxic for one another.

I like Amelia, but girl is not following The Recovery Program. 

Why is everyone so DUMB.

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I continue to play alone in the corner where I love Penny. She has such class. If she leaves, fine. She is actually too good for all these a-holes.

I agree.  She easily could have told Callie about Arizona's blow-up in the cafeteria, and how she accused Penny of being a spy.  But she understood, and she didn't want to get in the middle of their custody issue so she kept it to herself.  That was a kind thing to do.  Penny should dump all these people when she moves.

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Seriously, my hate for Callie is at like 11 on a score from 1-10. She used to be awesome. And now she might be the most selfish character on this show, which is saying something. I know originally even Arizona was considering asking people to support her at the court hearing but she didn't go to mutual friends of both of them. For me, April was always more Arizona's friend than Callie's but then Arizona never even asked. She backed off. 

I do sort of like Penny after this episode, but I do hope she leaves the show because she does seem too good for Callie. 

Amelia keeps being awesome, which is not something I think I would have ever said back in October of this season. Or when she was on PP. Speaking of which, can we get rid of Callie and Penny and bring back Addison? God, Addison was awesome when she was on this show. 

I really hate Callie. And I think she's going to win next week and that makes me angry. She is awful. I wonder if Shonda is writing her this way and thinking people are actually supportive of the character at this point? She..can't think that, can she?

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37 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

 

I really hate Callie. And I think she's going to win next week and that makes me angry. She is awful. I wonder if Shonda is writing her this way and thinking people are actually supportive of the character at this point? She..can't think that, can she?

A lot of us do support Callie at this point.  I certainly do and I know many others.  I won't go into all of the reasons because of fear of rabid Arizona lovers.  But let's just say that I find it hard to believe that some people who post here can see the same episodes I do and come to so extremely divergent opinions about the worth and goodness of certain characters. 

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Jeez. That was like an hour-long contest between Callie, Steph, and April to be The Worst. I'll give April a brief pass because of Samuel, so that leaves Callie and Steph in a dead tie.

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I can't support Callie because nothing about the move is better for her or Sophia. I'm not usually an Arizona fan.

She's not moving for a better job opportunity. Penny isn't her wife. They've dated a short time and broken up during that time. A couple weeks ago, Callie couldn't even say I love you. What if they break up again in a few months?

She's uprooting Sophia on a whim and that's really unfair to do to a child. Sophia's life is in Seattle. 

 

It really is very difficult for children to live long distance from one parent. 

 

Callie's making it all about her. She isn't thinking about Sophia at all

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The writers hAve to realise how bad this is making her look. They have to right?

 

i haven't seen the episode yet but did Jo get any lines? Or did her three lines in last weeks episode mean we probably won't see her til finale time now.

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A lot of us do support Callie at this point.  I certainly do and I know many others.  I won't go into all of the reasons because of fear of rabid Arizona lovers.

Sorry, but, what? Calling people who realize how selfish and impulsive Callie is being "Rabid Arizona lovers" is not conducive to discussion. I don't need to love AZ to see that Callie is off the rails. 

Edited by Chewy101
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Yeah, I'm not an AZ lover or would I consider myself rabid. But as was stated, Callie is being selfish. This moving to NY thing is a whim and for someone she has dated for like.. a couple months. She also plans on losing her job title with this move as well, so, it doesn't make sense. If she were doing this for a job, I would get it sort of and see her side of it but I can't when it's for a person she doesn't even really know and when for the past couple of episodes, she hasn't even tried to see AZs pov. In the episode before this one, she had already made the decision to move and was only meeting with Arizona to consult about schools and when she could visit. 

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1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I do sort of like Penny after this episode, but I do hope she leaves the show because she does seem too good for Callie. 

Amelia keeps being awesome, which is not something I think I would have ever said back in October of this season. Or when she was on PP. Speaking of which, can we get rid of Callie and Penny and bring back Addison? God, Addison was awesome when she was on this show. 

 

All of this made me laugh. It's confusing when Amelia becomes a sympathetic character, and I agree that Penny is too good for what lows Callie has sunk with her. However, Addison became so insufferable during Private Practice that I don't care if she ever comes back either. 

Shonda ruins everyone. 

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Just now, Chewy101 said:

All of this made me laugh. It's confusing when Amelia becomes a sympathetic character, and I agree that Penny is too good for what lows Callie has sunk with her. However, Addison became so insufferable during Private Practice that I don't care if she ever comes back either. 

Shonda ruins everyone. 

That is true. PP did ruin Addison, they kind of changed her personality. I will however always remember her very first scene with Mer, "and you must be the woman who's sleeping with my husband"

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I didn't approve when Derek tried to cross the country for work against his family's wishes.... I am still baffled why Meredith would support that in Callie. It's so dumb. But this is worse, because Callie isn't trying to relocate her family, she is selfishly blowing the family apart. And just for herself and another whimsical love affair (ahem, married George when he was grief stricken and lost after his dad's death).... The girl has zero sense when it comes to relationships. She is forever 17.

Edited by Chewy101
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8 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I continue to play alone in the corner where I love Penny. She has such class. If she leaves, fine. She is actually too good for all these a-holes.

Make some room in that corner! :D I mean, I totally see why people would be annoyed with her, she's come out of nowhere and is being pushed down everyone's throats and given an insane amount of screen time while the oldtimers barely get a line per episode. But still, I think that all things considered, she's really just a decent, sensible person. I keep thinking that she'll eventually call it quits with Callie because she doesn't want to be a part of that mess. It's just that, in that case, I see no point in bringing her in in the first place. It certainly wouldn't be to bring Callie and Arizona closer together again, that boat has long sailed. 

I wonder if the writers realize how unsympathetic Callie comes across. I could actually believe that they doing it on purpose so that viewers wouldn't care if she left, but surely they could have thought of a more appropriate exit for a character of her stature?

Actually, the fact that Callie is all confident and has people on her side while Arizona had a public meltdown and didn't ask anyone for support (which was odd) makes me think they're going to do the exact opposite and the court's decision will be favourable to Arizona. Meredith instantly siding with Callie was so dumb - they're not that close, they're drinking buddies more than anything, and Meredith has actually been in Arizona's shoes before.

I thought this episode was really boring. I cared about very little stuff here. Bailey and Ben zzzzzzzzz. Amelia and Owen, OMG.  Stephanie and Kyle - they barely know each other, stop acting like it's some dramatic love story for the ages. 

The old cliche of walking in on someone naked and them jumping up and standing in plain sight for everyone to see their junk is really tired. And we know that everyone on TV has a big penis so it's not much of a revelation that Owen does too.

I must say I appreciated that the old guy chose not to reveal his feelings for the doorman. It was heartbreaking, but that's how it really goes in life and it was really refreshing that for once they didn't go all soapy on us. 

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April could have brought it down a notch but I can understand how emotional the situation was for her. She lashes out when upset but I give her a pass on this one after what she went through with Samuel.


I don't give April a pass for getting hysterical with Arizona. Her only impulse was to blame Arizona for not catching it sooner. If Arizona didn't see anything two weeks ago, then maybe there was nothing for her to catch during the previous scan. Or hey, did you ever consider the possibility that two weeks ago, the baby's brain was too tiny for Arizona to see that there was any sort of problem? What makes it worse is that April is a doctor so she knows that there are no guarantees, but she still sounded like a petulant child when she said, "But you promised that there was nothing wrong with the baby!" Gawd. Yeah, I get that she's still freaked out about what happened to Samuel, but nothing about this is Arizona's fault so April needs to have a seat and quit screaming at her. Part of the problem is that Arizona is her friend so she's more comfortable with her and hence more apt to yell at her. I know it's April so she's totally fine with yelling at strangers too, but imagine how a doctor who is not her friend would react if April accused her of being a big meanie liar and then kicked her out of the exam room so she could continue to have a fit.

Normally I dislike Amelia and tolerate Stephanie but this week they swapped places for me (while they were at work, that is). I loved that Amelia kicked Stephanie off of Fez's case. Even though we do see things like Arizona having April as a patient, Amelia was totally right to take Stephanie off this particular case and I loved that she listed the exact reasons why. I thought that sitting in the waiting room would give Stephanie more empathy for her patients' families in the future but instead her reaction was "Must break up with Fez! Must cut people open so I can tell myself I'm helping people and fixing people! Can't ever be one of the common folk in the waiting room again!" I just rolled my eyes when she said, "I choose me." No, Jo was right when she said that you chose surgery. Waaaah, you had to miss ONE WHOLE SURGERY and that's enough to make you dump Fez (and I'm saying this as someone who finds Wilmer Valderrama creepy and would like for him to never be seen on this show again).

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For a moment there, I almost liked Penny when she refused to say anything bad about Arizona to Callie. Don't get me wrong, i still think the character is a time suck and needs to go away. But...I am hoping this is resolved by her refusing to take Callie or turning down the fellowship. Twice now, we've seen her subtly hint that she doesn't agree with Callie's attitude on the custody issue. Maybe I'm just hoping for too much

I'm there with you. I still want Penny to go far, far away, but hopefully she is beginning to see the light and she will end up telling Callie that she's not putting Sofia's needs first and she's putting all of her friends in an awkward position by asking them to choose sides. When she didn't utter a word about Arizona blowing up in the cafeteria, I almost liked her. Not enough to want her to stay but at least I stopped actively disliking her for a few minutes. I love that Alex refused to take sides and then left it at that. Who would have thought twelve years ago that Alex would end up being the most emotionally mature, even tempered, fair minded character on the show?

It would be one thing if Callie were a single mom and she decided to leave. Even then, I would question if moving somewhere for a year to be with your girlfriend of several weeks is in the best interest of your kid because it's a big transition for kids to change schools, leave their friends, and start over. But Callie is uprooting her daughter and taking her away from her other parent on top of everything else, which is selfish. It's not what's best for Sofia and it inconsiderate to do to Arizona.

Poor Vincent the door man. He could have had a few happy months before the cancer guy died but instead he got dumped.

I was shocked when I saw the big staircase outside. What the hell, show? You really want me to believe that everyone was just going out the other door for the first eleven seasons?

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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10 hours ago, Greysaddict said:

This was definitely a boring episode, but not terrible.  I don't care too much about Bailey/Ben or Steph/Kyle so that definitely didn't help my enjoyment of it but overall it was just fine.  I really liked Amelia shutting down Stephanie with trying to be both a doctor and significant other, but then she has to go completely over act that last scene with Owen.  That relationship is so nonsensical.  I originally liked them together but its just not working.   When I watch their scenes the only thing I can think is "what is the purpose of this"?, which is not good.  

I was excited for most of the episode because I finally felt like the old Meredith was back.  But, then she was insistent that she supported Callie in the custody battle which was just what???  to me.   Meredith of all people knows TWO things, 1) what its like to lose a child (Zola) and 2) how hard it is on children to not see both of their parents (Derek when he was in DC and now dead).  I really felt like that was out of character.  I did like the patient story though, it was so sad.

Hello new hospital locations.  I knew they were filming at new locations from the spoilers but it seems weird they are suddenly at these new spots without any mention.  

Also, it only took until episode 20-21 but the writers FINALLY realized it was ridiculous for the sisters to carpool without any trace of the kids.  Yea, sure they disappeared once they got into the car....but at least there was a car seat in the car!!  I will just assumed the kids had been dropped off at school/daycare before they started with the sex talk.  

I know that all I do is complain about the writing...and, well, here I go again.  I find it so odd, that of all of the characters who seem to be written the most differently these days, its three that have just about been there the longest: Meredith, Callie and Alex.  You would think that the writers would have their backstories and personalities down by now, but they are the three who I think have been used most as the symbols of whatever issue Shonda is trying to promote (single motherhood, gun control, bullying and custody/biological parenting).  The writers seem to take one aspect of their personalities and amplify it to 100 and then ignore the traits that made them most likeable and human, not to mention ignoring their histories.  Not only is Meredith the mother to a daughter that is not hers biologically (whom she almost lost), she is a single parent and was raised by a mother who took her away from her father which the show has told us a million times, has made her very dark and twisty.  I find it completely out of character for Meredith to choose either side, much less Callie's.  Maybe something will happen next week and Meredith will come to her senses and try to get Callie to come to hers, but as of right now, this development makes absolutely no sense to me. Alex not choosing sides was in character, but I thought for sure that he would at least try to mediate a little bit, especially now that he has become so self-righteous and humorless.

So do you mean to tell me that Owen and Amelia are having sex in the LIVING ROOM of a house where two other adults and three children live?  Even though Amelia has a bedroom there?  And Owen has his own place as well?  Not to mention a car if they are that desperate for one another?  I was completely grossed out by this and the jaunty music and Mer's jokes didn't make it any more palatable to me either.  Must everyone (besides Perfect Penny, of course), have the maturity of a 15 year old?

I think that the show is trying to have Stephanie be the anti-Izzie, but it really isn't working for me.  But I did love her interactions with DeLuca.  He is my new favorite and if Stephanie stays around, I wouldn't mind the two of them hooking up, or he can have a fling with Jo.

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6 hours ago, kushka said:

A lot of us do support Callie at this point.  I certainly do and I know many others.  I won't go into all of the reasons because of fear of rabid Arizona lovers.  But let's just say that I find it hard to believe that some people who post here can see the same episodes I do and come to so extremely divergent opinions about the worth and goodness of certain characters. 

I'm with you.

I get why Callie wants to go.

Her heart has been trampled on time and time again and she wants to hold onto something she thinks is good.

Does it mean she's selfish?  No.  Confused? Yes.

It's for a year and people are acting like she's trying to take Sofia away for good and bar Arizona from seeing her and that's not what's happening.

Callie wasn't even being a jerk about asking.  She knew people were also Arizona's friends and understood that they might not be okay with picking sides.

Arizona's treatment of Penny was awful and Penny protecting Arizona rather than, I don't know, talking to her girlfriend was disturbing.

The extreme reactions and unwillingness to even entertain why Callie might consider this move on this board are hilarious.

Edited by North
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31 minutes ago, Deanie87 said:

So do you mean to tell me that Owen and Amelia are having sex in the LIVING ROOM of a house where two other adults and three children live?  Even though Amelia has a bedroom there?  And Owen has his own place as well?  Not to mention a car if they are that desperate for one another?  I was completely grossed out by this and the jaunty music and Mer's jokes didn't make it any more palatable to me either.  Must everyone (besides Perfect Penny, of course), have the maturity of a 15 year old?

Agree. Meredith talking about it to all of their coworkers was ridiculous. I know none of them are professional but commenting on Owen's junk to all of their coworkers was cringeworthy.  I guess its in character as Meredith pretty much has no boundaries.

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or he can have a fling with Jo.

 

LOL, JoLuca in S13.

Edited by windsprints
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2 minutes ago, North said:

The extreme reactions and unwillingness to even entertain why Callie might consider this move on this board is hilarious.

Because it really is stupid and unrealistic. A couple of episodes ago she wasn't even ready to say she loved her and was so unwilling to let Sofia meet her that she lied in her face about it. Now she's leaving everything behind and burning bridges in the process so she could follow her - someone she wasn't sure was worthy of even trying to maintain a long distance relationship with. 

Moreover, the whole thing is not some romantic vacation. Penny is going to be really busy and won't have much time on her hands. Callie is only going to work part-time, what is she going to do in the meantime, sit around all day waiting for Penny to come home? 

If they were married or in a longterm comitted relationship and Penny got an actual job somewhere else, the decision to move away with her would be perfectly plausible. This simply isn't.

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Callie wasn't even being a jerk about asking.  She knew people were also Arizona's friends and understood that they might not be okay with picking sides.


She seemed unhappy that Alex wouldn't testify on her behalf so she didn't really seem to understand that he wasn't okay with picking sides against his boss/mentor.

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15 minutes ago, Joana said:

Because it really is stupid and unrealistic. A couple of episodes ago she wasn't even ready to say she loved her and was so unwilling to let Sofia meet her that she lied in her face about it. Now she's leaving everything behind and burning bridges in the process so she could follow her - someone she wasn't sure was worthy of even trying to maintain a long distance relationship with. 

Moreover, the whole thing is not some romantic vacation. Penny is going to be really busy and won't have much time on her hands. Callie is only going to work part-time, what is she going to do in the meantime, sit around all day waiting for Penny to come home? 

If they were married or in a longterm comitted relationship and Penny got an actual job somewhere else, the decision to move away with her would be perfectly plausible. This simply isn't.

The thing is, regardless, she wants to go and would like her daughter with her.

That doesn't make her a monster. It makes her a mother.

If she decided she wanted to go and was okay with leaving Sofia behind she'd get criticized for that too.

She wants a life with Penny and Sofia.  She said it herself and she has every right to fight for that life.

I may not care for her and Penny together, but I don't think she's being awful.

11 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:


She seemed unhappy that Alex wouldn't testify on her behalf so she didn't really seem to understand that he wasn't okay with picking sides against his boss/mentor.

She was disappointed, but she knew he had a relationship with Arizona.  She said it herself.

She is allowed to be disappointed that he said no.

Arizona was the one who was outright upset that he said no.

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It looks like they have made Callie increasingly unlikable this season so when or if the actress exits the show, viewers won't miss her. 

It's working!

None of this storyline makes sense - including the chemistry between Callie and Penny. It's like, negative chemistry. I might actually like Penny on her own some day, but this sure isn't the way to do it (except for the part where she declined to throw Arizona under a bus).

That last scene between the two men and the wife was fucking heartbreaking. One of the most devastating patient scenes ever, for me.

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- I'm just waiting for someone to ask Callie what will happen if after the year, Penny decides to wants to work in Houston or something, will Sofia be uprooted again? I'll be waiting in vain with the writing on this show, I know.

- I've always rooted for Amelia so it's nice to see everyone else joining the club :)

- April & Arizona need to have a discussion about Arizona's role in taking care of the baby. She can be her friend or her doctor, she shouldn't be both at the same time.

Edited by kdm07
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The thing is, regardless, she wants to go and would like her daughter with her.

That doesn't make her a monster. It makes her a mother.

 

I understand that Callie wants to go. I understand that Callie wants her daughter to come with her. But the issue here is that this decision is not just about what Callie wants, and that's the problem. Aside from being naive and shortsighted and impulsive (which she's allowed to do, it's not a crime to make a foolish decision or anything), she's being selfish. She is Sofia's mother, but so is Arizona. Arizona has a right -- just as much of a right, if I am understanding their legal statuses correctly -- to not want her daughter to move thousands of miles away as Callie has to want her to. Callie is being very inconsiderate of the fact that when you co-parent a child on equal terms, you can't just unilaterally decide to take said child and move across the country and be all, "Hey, you can visit every other weekend!" It honestly doesn't work like that. If the other parent honestly doesn't mind and is on board, that's great. But they have every right not to be, and she honestly should have thought of that and spoken to Arizona about her feelings about Sofia moving at all rather than barging ahead with school options and visitation schedules as if Arizona's okay was going to be a given. And is moving Sofia away from her other mother, leaving her home, her school, her friends -- she must hardly ever get to see Zola as it is, what with Meredith's kids having the power of invisibility -- and all the people and places familiar to her, to uproot her whole life, in her best interests? It's not like Callie got a new, better job that she simply can't turn down. She's uprooting her daughter's life on a total whim of an idea, to follow her girlfriend of a few months for a one-year assignment. That's the kind of thing you do when you're single and childless and can, in fact, pack up your whole life and move across the country no questions asked. But when there are other people to consider -- your child, who is settled in her life here, and your co-parent, who up to now has had equal custody and every right to not want to see their time with their child reduced that way -- making that kind of decision is immature and ill-advised and, yeah, selfish.

That said ... I don't know what I want to see happen in the custody hearing. I think it's in Sofia's best interests to stay in Seattle and not have her life uprooted for no good reason, but at the same time I don't want Callie to lose custody of her. I don't want Sofia to lose either of her mothers. I don't know what's going to happen and I don't know what I want to see happen. This is a very touchy and painful situation for them all to be in.

And I co-sign the annoyance at assuming that one must be an Arizona supporter to not side with Callie in this storyline. Throughout the entire Calzona relationship, I was on Callie's side for about 97% of their issues. Arizona always struck me as petty and melodramatic -- and I actually think she is being a little of that in this storyline, as I don't think it was necessary to lawyer up so quickly before just having a real, honest discussion with Callie about the fact that she is not okay with Sofia moving away. But my opinions about Arizona, positive or negative, have nothing to do with the fact that I think Callie's decision-making and thought processes here have been very irresponsible.

Edited by Chicken Wing
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27 minutes ago, North said:

That doesn't make her a monster. It makes her a mother.

I don't think it makes her a monster, but I do think it's a betrayal of her character. Up until now she has treated Arizona as an equal parent in all senses. When Arizona cheated and she was deservedly furious with her and kicked her out of the house, she still had enough presence of mind to acknowledge that Arizona is Sofia's mother and didn't even consider denying her to spend time with her, on the contrary. 

And now, she's acting like Arizona is a friendly aunt who is free to visit whenever she wants and it'd be nice to know what she thinks about Sofia's possible schools. 

I guess that's what bugs people the most, I know it bugs me. She's simply not even acknowleding Arizona's position in this case. She must know what it would be like to be separated from her child for a year, that's why she's taking Sofia with her in the first place. But Arizona's feelings about being separated from her child are totally irrelevant to her. She's not even saying "Hey, I know this must be devastating for you, but I really, really want this thing with Penny to work and I feel like this move is something I have to do. Can we at least try to talk about what we're going to do with Sofia and figure out a way for both of us to spend as much time with her as possible? And I promise I'll make this up to you in every way I can". That would be considerate. I'd understand where she's coming from. But she didn't even give Arizona an opportunity to voice her opinion about it and it's not OK. 

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People supporting Callie should watch the episodes again but imagine the situation reversed. Arizona would be being called on the names under the sun. Seriously imagine Az going up to Callie and telling her she was moving the way Callie did, no one would even entertain the thought that Sof could go with her. No one would be saying "she's not a monster for wanting her kid with her, she's just being a mother." They would be calling her a selfish bitch.

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Just now, GreysFan89 said:

People supporting Callie should watch the episodes again but imagine the situation reversed. Arizona would be being called on the names under the sun. Seriously imagine Az going up to Callie and telling her she was moving the way Callie did, no one would even entertain the thought that Sof could go with her. No one would be saying "she's not a monster for wanting her kid with her, she's just being a mother." They would be calling her a selfish bitch.

I have to wonder how much biological parent vs. non-biological parent factors into the viewpoints. And to be honest, I think that part is likely what factored into Callie's earlier presumptuousness.

Edited by Chicken Wing
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7 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

I have to wonder how much biological parent vs. non-biological parent factors into the viewpoints. And to be honest, I think that part is likely what factored into Callie's earlier presumptuousness.

I certainly did. And I actually think it's a valid issue that should have been explored much earlier and not played out in such a sudden and contrived manner.

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11 minutes ago, Chicken Wing said:

I have to wonder how much biological parent vs. non-biological parent factors into the viewpoints. And to be honest, I think that part is likely what factored into Callie's earlier presumptuousness.

Yeah it definitely clouds some peoples view on this, I've seen loads of people specially on FB saying things like "Arizona isn't even her Mom she should just shut up" and things of that nature. Though they usually go quiet when you ask them if Mer isn't Zola's Mom. So I think there's a bit of homophobia thrown in as well, and since Callie slept with Mark and other men, I think she is seen as the lesser of two evils. lol

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