S22.E05: Week 5

[ari333]

I understood it that Len is the guy who submits all the scores. People tell him, he writes/circles them and submits it to the producers. Maks told him to put 10's for him and Bruni, but it was too loud and Len heard 9's.

 

What bugs me is that Maks and Bruno said that their intention was 10 and if LEN misheard that,  that is on Len. The contestant shouldn't be punished for that. Sheesh. ANd in this age of techy, they cant get an effing score right? Please.

So if Len "heard", fours then the fours would stand?

Edited April 19, 2016 by ari333

[Alapaki]

Nyle is lucky that Bruno and Maks ended up giving him nines because if he'd gotten three 10s people would be complaining that he was over-scored and the show was pandering to him. The outcome, while not intentional, is far better for him. There are many weeks to come (because I do think Nyle is here until the final four at least) and he's got time to earn 10s. Also, he didn't deserve three 10s. His posture needs work (those shoulders were up by his ears a few times) and he comes out of his turns all messy and awkward. That's fine; there's a lot of time to make improvements and he's still one of the stronger dancers in the group, but a near perfect score now would have been a joke.

 

 

I agree.  I mentioned in the Grassy Knoll thread that the panic here was probably based at least partly on the fact that the show makes such an inordinately big deal out of getting "10s".  Yes, they're the highest score you can get.  But, at the same time, they really only use a four-point scale (6 - 10), so 10's really shouldn't mean as much as they make them out to mean. 

[LotusFlower]

I understood it that Len is the guy who submits all the scores. People tell him, he writes/circles them and submits it to the producers. Maks told him to put 10's for him and Bruni, but it was too loud and Len heard 9's.

No, it's Carrie Ann. She sits farthest on the right, of course, and you can see her hand the card to the runner/PA, who you sometimes see right behind her. They've always done it this way.

[sekay87]

I think Jodie's performance really showed that the issue has not been about her, but about Keo. I don't know what it is, but it's almost like Keo is not playing to her strength or showing her full potential. Her performance with Val was worlds better than anything she's done so far and it seemed as if something clicked.

It's unfortunate about the scores mishap with Nyle, but he didn't seem all that upset about it. Bottom line is he delivered the best performance of the show so far. And he quieted any naysayers who said he could only perform to songs with a strong bass. I was thrilled for him, although I could have done without Tyra's self-indulgent visit to his rehearsal.

Something about Ginger really bugs me, and I just cannot pinpoint it. I recognize that she's good but for whatever reason whenever she performs I want to fast forward. It's like she's always trying too hard. I can't explain it.

[Jal]

Oof, a few of those partnerships were so good (Jodie / Val, Paige / Sacha, Nyle / Sharna, etc.) it actually made me sad to realize these people are not going to be dancing together next week. Really, there's nothing more sad in a reality show like this one than when you find out a contestant could've been reaching much higher heights with a different partner.

[crowceilidh]

 

So I'm o.k. with pros being called out for their choreography not matching the style.

I am totally okay with pros being called out; I am totally NOT okay with that being reflected in the celebrity's score.  How is it the celebrity's fault?  Especially when Kim did a respectable job of looking classic and hot in that not-VW.

 

I don't watch much of the judges because they drive me crazy, but as soon as I got wind of how closely Len and Maks were commenting and scoring, I wondered if Maks is being considered for Len's role.

[McManda]

If Maks and Bruno say their original scores were 10s, why not just correct the graphic rather than docking Nyle 2 points because Len had shit in his ears?

 

My guess is because they are "trying" to make it out like the judges have individual scores and don't influence one another. There's not much time betweeen the end of the dance and Carrie Ann handing off the paper to the runner. Otherwise what's to stop them from writing down a 6 and then switching their score once they realize that their 6 is four points lower than the other judges and doesn't make sense?

 

No, it's Carrie Ann. She sits farthest on the right, of course, and you can see her hand the card to the runner/PA, who you sometimes see right behind her. They've always done it this way.

 

I think Carrie Ann hands it to the runner because she's closer to whoever is running the numbers to the control room, but it makes more sense to me (when they have 3 judges, at least) to have Len be the one to write things down. That way Bruno leans over, Carrie Ann leans over, and then Len slides the paper to Carrie Ann to physically hand off. Otherwise Bruno would be yelling across Len to get (crazy) Carrie Ann to hear him. Of course, that's kind of what they claim happen here, since Len was still recording scores and Maks was between him and Bruno.

 

Considering that it's pretty commonly accepted that it's hard to hear in the ballroom anyway (how many couples stand there looking flummoxed when they're announced safe/in jeopardy) it seems like a very inefficient way to do things, but hey. It is what it is.

[gohawks]

I forgot to mention it but even though I had read it, I was still stunned when Maks really did refer to himself in the third person...wtaf? Who does that?

Many people do that. Sometimes as a joke, sometimes to be sassy. Many people occasionally refer to themselves in the 3rd person.

Edited April 20, 2016 by gohawks

[spanana]

I know Maks was just playing his role, but something tells me it might be tense between Maks and some of the other pros for awhile.  Not that Maks cares I'm sure.  Mark seemed pissed after Paige's dance since he couldn't even bring himself to reference Maks when he was being interviewed.  He acknowledged Len and his critique and how they all know what to expect from Len in terms of liking his dances traditional, but he just ignored Maks altogether.   Also Sasha just posted a tweet listing out all the rumba moves in Paige's rumba and Sasha is normally one of the most good natured of the bunch.

Edited April 20, 2016 by spanana

[Dots And Stripes]

My guess is because they are "trying" to make it out like the judges have individual scores and don't influence one another. There's not much time betweeen the end of the dance and Carrie Ann handing off the paper to the runner. Otherwise what's to stop them from writing down a 6 and then switching their score once they realize that their 6 is four points lower than the other judges and doesn't make sense?

 

 

I think Carrie Ann hands it to the runner because she's closer to whoever is running the numbers to the control room, but it makes more sense to me (when they have 3 judges, at least) to have Len be the one to write things down. That way Bruno leans over, Carrie Ann leans over, and then Len slides the paper to Carrie Ann to physically hand off. Otherwise Bruno would be yelling across Len to get (crazy) Carrie Ann to hear him. Of course, that's kind of what they claim happen here, since Len was still recording scores and Maks was between him and Bruno.

 

Considering that it's pretty commonly accepted that it's hard to hear in the ballroom anyway (how many couples stand there looking flummoxed when they're announced safe/in jeopardy) it seems like a very inefficient way to do things, but hey. It is what it is.

Maybe trying to keep them from influencing each other is part of it, but I also think it's the practicality of having a graphic ready. Having the written number count probably minimizes confusion in the long run because it gives the judges no incentive to change the number during their critique. I imagine if the paddles were what counted the judges might be more inclined to change their minds as they talk.

 

The judges are on live stream. I saw the video and it looks Len wrote the numbers. A producer came and had a conversation with Maks and Bruno after the whole the paddles, not before. It looked like Maks and Bruno were explaining the 10's. It probably was a simple mistake. I think the producers sometimes do illogical things, but broadcasting some sort of cheating live! on the internet seems too stupid. Really just having each judge write for themselves seems like a much better idea. Oh well. If it had to happen, at least it happened in a way that won't change the next elimination. No way Nyle goes whether those are 9's or 10's.

[TiredMe]

I hate this week. Messes with the mojo of the show.

That said, ginger cannot get off my screen fast enough. Annoying try hard. And her hubby can go too.

Was going to ff though the guest singer, until, hello, half naked Artem. I think my tv screen melted.....

Feel bad for Jodie because Keo just isn't a great pro. As for maks he didn't score anyone so differently than others. Plus I think they wanted him to stir it up.

[katha]

The way they laid into Keo might have given her some sympathy votes, but I'm a bit scared for Kim. I hope she survives. She's a middling dancer and wasn't spectacular last week, but she was solid and her partnership with Sasha is nice. This week kinda screwed her over, though. And none of it is her fault. I think this is the treacherous nature of switch up week, if for whatever reason the temporary pairing is a flop then it has repercussions for the regular pro and the celeb. Oh well, Doug is the weakest dancer now and he wasn't great this week either (not the fault of either Peta or Karina, he's just limited) so hopefully that will be enough to save Kim.

Edited April 20, 2016 by katha

[MsJamieDornan]

I really dislike Keo. He spends more time looking at the camera than he does connecting with his partner. He has fame whore written all over him. Poor Jodie, she deserves better. Even Tony would have been a better partner.

[Kira53]

Maks and Keo are the same height. As for Kim being shorter, that maybe true. It was a challenge for Keo this week. I think the point was just big height differences don't prevent you from dancing the style. It is a challenge but as others have pointed out some of the male athletes and their female partners deal with that week after week. They've said the trick is to have the woman dance up to the man and not have the man slouch. IMO, that's probably easier with a male pro who knows not to wreck his posture. It's hard to say if Kim danced a good VW if she didn't dance much VW. Len went in on it too, so I'm not sure why Maks would be the only issue there.

Meryl is 5'3" and an Ice DANCER. Way different to choreograph for working with her for the first week. And Kim is 40 or more? And 5"0".

[Uke]

A few thoughts after reading everyone's comments:

 

FilmTVGeek80 - All Access is a web program running as a companion show to DWTS.  It's run on the ABC/DWTS website and features commentary, interviews with the couples before or after they dance, camera views of behind the scenes, judges table, makeup mirrors, etc.  It runs live with DWTS during the East Coast time zone and is repeated (on recording) during the West Coast time zone. Also, scoring Paige "one measly point lower than Ginger" won't make much difference, but for the C-bros, IMO, it's a pissing contest, and pissing contests matter to them so putting Paige one point lower than Ginger matters to them...again, in my opinion.

 

Re "Paddle-Gate": Maks' story is that he told Len what score to write down for him (Maks).  If Maks was sitting any closer to Len, he'd be on Len's lap. How did Maks' not see Len writing down the scores for Maks and Bruno?  BTW, if anyone wants to check, there's someone at this site: http://stormviking.tumblr.com/post/141482118397/dwts-22-all-access-week-1 who records All Access videos.  I haven't had time to explore this site but if you go to this link and skip to week 5, you may be able to see the judges table activity at the conclusion of Nyle's dance. (kudos to stormviking!)

 

Re Keo's choreo:  Maks was a guest at All Access last week (week 4) and had a bit to say about Keo and his choreography.  Keo wouldn't have heard what Maks had to say unless he was standing nearby. (I think the All Access set is one level above the skybox (aka "celebraquarium").  I feel like Maks got himself all wound up about Keo last week so when he had the opportunity this week, he just unloaded on Keo.  What this accomplishes, I'm not sure. If he was so concerned, why not just meet with Keo and discuss it. After all, Maks is reportedly at the rehearsal studio daily helping Peta train Nyle.

 

Re docking points for choreography:  I'm seeing a lot of opinions that it's not fair to penalize the star for the pro's choreo. I disagree.  First, the star is not out on the floor dancing by his/her self. It's a partnership. Both get the glory and both get the penalty. Second, choreography is often a strategic choice made by the pro to help the star.  Sometimes it makes sense to play by the rules, especially for Len's favorite dance, the Viennese Waltz, or to address some critique the judges have been harping on.  Sometimes the pro chooses to purposely break some rules or go "outside the box" because even though the couple will be docked a point or two, it may be worth it for a crowd-pleaser production.  I think it's a balance between where the pro or couple think they are the most vulnerable, scores or points.  If the choreography goes too far afield and doesn't contain the basic elements of the assigned dance, then yes, I think they should be docked.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Uke

[vavera4ka]

Forgot to mention. Tyra rubbed me the wrong way during the show this time. There was a moment when they showed her right after some other contestant either just danced or got scored and she boo'ed and thumbed down mouthing "no, vote for Nyle". I understand that he is "her baby" and it seems like he somehow inspires people around him to be protective over him, but that was too much. I really dislike negativity when trying to build someone up. I know it's not Nyle's fault, and I adore him too much to hold it against him, but I can see him losing few votes over this. I really thought better of Tyra. My mistake...

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Forgot to mention. Tyra rubbed me the wrong way during the show this time. There was a moment when they showed her right after some other contestant either just danced or got scored and she boo'ed and thumbed down mouthing "no, vote for Nyle". I understand that he is "her baby" and it seems like he somehow inspires people around him to be protective over him, but that was too much. I really dislike negativity when trying to build someone up. I know it's not Nyle's fault, and I adore him too much to hold it against him, but I can see him losing few votes over this. I really thought better of Tyra. My mistake...

Ha, I didn't think better of Tyra before this episode so that wasn't surprising to me but I agree that it was not great behavior. You can be supportive of someone without being negative toward someone else. Saying, "Vote for [my candidate]!" is different from booing another candidate and giving them a thumbs down.

 

I'm torn on docking points when there isn't enough content for the assigned style or there's too much mucking about at the beginning/end. On the one hand, no, it's not the celeb's fault. But if the judges don't dock points then there is no incentive for the pros to actually follow the rules and choreograph the style they're supposed to be doing. I don't think they need to get as strict as the ridiculous code of points that exists in gymnastics now where you have to do X number of required elements in order to get the start value, but maybe having points docked will scare the pros into doing what they're supposed to do or not breaking the rules. The judges (particularly Carrie Ann) have docked one point for lifts and that is also not the celeb's fault. Some of the pros still add lifts when they're not supposed to but they have acknowledged they know it may lower their scores.

[Saylii]

The star benefits more from breaking from the assigned content then they suffer for it. There's only two reasons a star doesn't dance the assigned dance. One they can't do the assigned steps. Two the pro has a theme in mind and the content doesn't quite fit (see: Derek, Mark).

Kim got an 8/6/6/8 for the dance she did. If she had properly danced in hold and failed, she might have seen all 6's or some 5's.

[majormama]

I think Doug should be the next to go, but I'm not convinced he will be. He has the least amount of natural talent, and the NFL vote is split three ways this year. BUT the NFL voters tend to support the retired heroes more than the active players, possibly due to fear of injury ruining someone's season. It wouldn't surprise me if he's pulling the most votes among the three. He had the same score as Kim and higher score than Antonio this week, though they both had much higher scores last week. I'm afraid for Kim. I think she's a decent middle-pack dancer and I love her partnership with Sasha, but that won't keep her here long. And her dance with Keo this week will hurt her.

Edited April 21, 2016 by majormama

[spanana]

Meryl is 5'3" and an Ice DANCER. Way different to choreograph for working with her for the first week. And Kim is 40 or more? And 5"0".

 

Yes, and I think an important point in all this is Keo had 4-5 days to work it out with Kim before passing her back to tiny Sasha.  So besides the fact that Meryl is considerably taller than Kim, and yes, 3" in my book is considerably taller, these other partnerships being referenced were all permanent partnerships where they had time to sort out the issues.  Kim has only danced in hold with Sasha, so clearly her hold was going to have to be adjusted and worked with to dance with Keo for a week, then she would go back to Sasha and have to go back to how she was originally taught to do things.  So there also is likely an element of trying to work with what they have, i.e. limited time and the fact that she would be going back to Sasha.  I think Keo could have done better but I also don't think his intentions were bad.  Kim is not a ringer.  Kim doesn't have extensive dance experience.  There was also probably an element of trying not to completely confuse Kim and keep it in the realm of something she could accomplish in four days.

 

I've also seen a lot of people throwing out partnerships with shorter female pros and very tall male celebs as proof of how Keo could make it work, but again it's different.  First all of these are once again regular partnerships with proper time to sort it out.  But also the tiny female pros know how to dance up.  They know it's their job to dance up to their male celeb partner no matter what.  This is not something Kim is going to learn how to do properly in four days.  I also just maintain, call out the pros for choreography, sure.  But switch up week is a really weird week to suddenly go hardass on it.  If you are going to be a stickler, do it when these people are in their regular partnerships.

 

As for Maks, I think he's been kind of waiting to unload on Keo for whatever reason.  As somebody else said, he did it on All Access last week.  He did it this week after the show.  He continued in all his press interviews.   On ET he gave some nonsense about how Keo is his friend and he hoped he still was his friend but if Keo is going to replace him on DWTS then he needs to bring what he used to bring.  So I don't know if Maks somehow sees Keo as his replacement or something, but that was sort of the implication.  That Maks sees himself as the gold standard of pros and is pissed that Keo isn't living up to his standards as his replacement.  It's like every time Maks talks about Keo he can't do it without bringing it back to himself or to Val and how much better they are than him as opposed to just giving Keo a straight critique.  Which is also weird because Val and Keo are fairly close.

Edited April 20, 2016 by spanana

[Dots And Stripes]

Breaking the rules is a risk. Maybe it helped Kim's score, maybe she would have gotten all 7's if Keo stuck to the rules and that made Bruno like it less but Len like I more. I think overall Kim ended up better off than Doug because while they earned the same number of points, she'll be remembered more.

I'm not buying that Kim's height makes it impossible to do a little in traditional hold. Yes she had a shorter partner before but she did learn some basic footwork and technique so she would not be starting completely from scratch. Also, the Meryl comparison was not to say Kim was expected to be perfect. Keo was supposed to let her try the actual dance style though. Celebrities are expected to try dance styles they aren't suited to every season. It's part of the game.

As for Maks talking about Keo on All Access, yes, he talked about Keo and every other pro. It's part of that job. Not only did he tell Keo to step up then, he also said the same thing about Tony, his best friend. It doesn't seem malicious so much as just Maks wanting to push for more with everyone. I'm sure he was asked about Keo on the press line because it was one of the more memorable moments of the night.

[RedFiat]

All this talk about Keo.  Makes me think the show wants him around for a long time.  Putting Jodie with Keo is strategic. They thought Jodie would have enough of a fanbase to overcome any hiccups.  They put someone like Ginger with Val because she shouldn't have the fan base that Jodie has, and yet. Whaddaya know. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by RedFiat

[boyznkatz]

Whatever Maks was trying to do, I'm sure he did both Keo and Kim a favor. They will probably get some sympathy votes, thanks to his massive ego.

 

As for Keo, he could have been better, but Kim simply isn't very good. He wasn't going to turn her into Meryl Davis overnight. 

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Switching Up The Partners Results In Shake-Ups On The Leaderboard On Dancing With The Stars
And guest judge Maks Chmerkovskiy issues some smackdowns to his fellow pros.

[spanana]

All this talk about Keo.  Makes me think the show wants him around for a long time.  Putting Jodie with Keo is strategic. They thought Jodie would have enough of a fanbase to overcome any hiccups.  They put someone like Ginger with Val because she shouldn't have the fan base that Jodie has, and yet. Whaddaya know. 

 

We don't know anything real about the fanbase of either.  People are endlessly presuming Jodie is on the brink of elimination based on her being paired with Keo and the fact that they have had her in the faux B2 or B3 twice.  Neither time was it said that it was the actual B2 or B3 announced.  Just because they have Jodie standing there, doesn't mean she's there.  Just because Ginger is always declared safe early on, doesn't mean she is.  This is all assumption.  Also Ginger has a national platform on GMA every single day of the week so Ginger isn't exactly unrepresented.  There is usually rhyme or reason for who TPTB have sweat it out in the bottom group, but unless Tom announces "bottom two" everything else people are just assuming. 

[Mbeaker]

So, as if Switch-Up wasn't enough of a cluster, next is Famous Dances Week?!

That did not go over well last season. I remember only one dance adhering to the assigned style. Nick and Sharna's Samba. These no-content dances will be getting 10s, and just off of a week where judges were harping on content. Yeah, no hypocrisy there. I'm dreading this - as are probably Doug & Karina who, according to the DancingABC Instagram page, have Bollywood. The least talented dancer left gets a style most ringers probably couldn't do justice. Cringe.

[TeeMo]

I saw somewhere else that Nyle and Peta are doing a Quickstep with the song from the Mask. So are the's famous movie dances or famous DWTS dances? Because Helio and Julianne did that Quickstep and then Shawn and Derek, right?

[truthaboutluv]

If it is anything like last season, they have to recreate the dance from the movie. Julianne and Helio's definitely took a lot of the same elements from the movie while Derek and Shawn just used the song. Either way it's stupid. I am surprised they're bringing this back because the impression I got was that most viewers hated it last season and many of the Pros were annoyed about having to recreate a dance that most times, based on the song, was tough for their assigned style. The whole thing was just dumb. 

[boyznkatz]

After the first week, I had high hopes for the season, but my interest is really starting to take a hike now. Why is Rob Wade doing all these stupid theme weeks that no one cares about? The only ones people have liked in the past were Disney and the ones with iconic stars (Ricky Martin, Cher, etc.) Pure DWTS has some of the dances posted, and several of them have been done 3-4 times already. Sheesh. I'm Indian and somewhat familiar with Bollywood, but I can't imagine most people knowing any Bollywood dances besides the Slumdog Millionaire one, and it's been done several times already. 

Edited April 20, 2016 by boyznkatz

[Mreid]

I wish Nyle and Jodie could stick with Sharna and Val for the rest of the season.

I think Nyle is ok with Peta but Jodie definitely needs to be with Val for the rest of the season. 

[McManda]

I'm Indian and somewhat familiar with Bollywood, but I can't imagine most people knowing any Bollywood dances besides the Slumdog Millionaire one, and it's been done several times already.

 

Famous dances and Bollywood? Doug and Karina are definitely recreating the Slumdog Millionaire dance. Which might actually work out for him, because it's not so much Bollywood and more a line dance.

[Mbeaker]

Famous dances and Bollywood? Doug and Karina are definitely recreating the Slumdog Millionaire dance. Which might actually work out for him, because it's not so much Bollywood and more a line dance.

Their song is Jai ho, and while I've never seen the movie, I'm familiar with the song and Gilles' Bollywood routine to it in the All-Star season. And, well, I'm having a hard time picturing anything but a disaster for Doug and Karina tho I would like to be wrong.

[McManda]

Their song is Jai ho, and while I've never seen the movie, I'm familiar with the song and Gilles' Bollywood routine to it in the All-Star season. And, well, I'm having a hard time picturing anything but a disaster for Doug and Karina tho I would like to be wrong.

 

But Gilles and Peta created their own Bollywood routine when neither of them had experience or training or any real knowledge of Bollywood and that's what made it cringey. It's different if Doug and Karina are recreating the dance from the end of Slumdog Millionaire ... it'll come of as less of a cultural appropriation IMO (there should be no saris or only-looks-like-Bollywood moves), and it's also not that difficult. The whole premise is that it's a flash mob at a train station. The problem Doug will have is his ability to sell the moves because he's very hesitant in his dancing when he's not being the manly man (like a paso or something).

 

Of course, that's me assuming they're going to go the route of last season's iconic dance night and ... literally recreate iconic dances instead of creating new ballroom dances inspired by the originals.

Edited April 21, 2016 by McManda

[Kira53]

It makes me wonder. Are they "testing the waters" with Maks, so that Len can actually retire for good? The judging had lost something the past couple of seasons with Mary Sue Sunshine sitting between Carrie Ann and Bruno. They do need that cranky, cantankerous judging element...although maybe not as cantankerous as he was last night with Tootie...sorry, I mean, Kim.  And PLEASE never consider that horrible woman from Dance Mom's. She was horrific and not in a good or entertaining way. Maks can handle the "Grumpy Judge" mantle, because he does have a fan base who will still love him no matter what. The Houghs have that kind of fan base, and the Chmerkovsky's have that kind of fanbase.  The only negative with Maks taking Len's spot, is the same problem that people had with Julianne. She was judging her brother and Mark, who is like a brother. Maks is judging his brother and his fiancee...and ex-fiancee.

Yes. I believe that this is a try out.

I'd rather that the switch up would be a fun night as people are experiencing new partnerships and new teaching styles.

[Jax7917]

I did not like Maks judging. Not only is it completely ridiculous that hes judging his fiance, brother, and ex-fiance, but he's just so full of himself. The only reason Maks won that season with meryl was because a) meryl is a good dancer to begin with, hence her being an ice dancer.. and b) because the only reason maks came back for that season was because it was pretty much a shoe-in that he was gonna win with her as a partner. You can't give people like Tony naturally terrible dancers each season and expect him to ever get far in the competition. Same with other dancers. Val, maks, derek, mark, etc are always in different boats and make it far every season because they always are given the best partners. Even though Derek isnt on the show anymore, I would have liked to see him have a 70 year old partner for just one season to see what he could do with her.. same with the others. I believe they put keo with jodie this season because jodie was a favorite from the beginning and was known to have some natural dance talent and since keo got out 1st for 2 seasons in a row, the producers decided to give him a chance of going far to see if he could be a potential new "fan favorite". Unfortunately for him, he isn't the favorite the producers were hoping for him to be, and i'd be surprised if they have him back as a pro next season. If he does come back, I guarantee his partner won't be good.

 

On another note, most viewers don't know what kind of dances should or shouldn't have lifts, turns, flips, whatever. I think the competition should be judged based upon what looks good, and flows nicely. Taking off points because there was a lift in a dance? Just seems silly to me.

[truthaboutluv]

I think the competition should be judged based upon what looks good, and flows nicely

 

Well, what looks good is subjective to many people. In any case, I believe that's what the viewer votes are for and let's face it, this competition is mostly won on viewer votes. Viewers vote for whoever they want, for whatever reason - liked the dance, liked the pairing, etc. 

Edited April 22, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Thadeeeyus]

On another note, most viewers don't know what kind of dances should or shouldn't have lifts, turns, flips, whatever. I think the competition should be judged based upon what looks good, and flows nicely. Taking off points because there was a lift in a dance? Just seems silly to me.

 

The comments about the lifts, improper choreography, etc., are only used as justification for taking off points for an otherwise nice dance.  If there is no reason to lower the score and to create doubt in the mind of the viewer, there won't be comments about lifts. 

[McManda]

On another note, most viewers don't know what kind of dances should or shouldn't have lifts, turns, flips, whatever. I think the competition should be judged based upon what looks good, and flows nicely. Taking off points because there was a lift in a dance? Just seems silly to me.

 

I disagree about the idea that most viewers don't know which dances should or shouldn't have lifts. Especially if that viewer has watched any DWTS before ... and especially the old school DWTS, before every dance was themed and produced and involved the troupe.

 

I also think that originally back then lifts were banned just to try to level the playing field (not everyone can be tiny enough to lift or fit enough to lift or be lifted) and to protect the celebs from injuries. Some of the most horrific injuries have come from the lifts - remember Hines dropping Kym on her neck? Besides, when lifts are allowed the choreography tends to become very heavy on lifts and light on dancing and honestly, that makes for boring routines (but people still do it).

 

I'm okay with Carrie Ann being the lift police. Of course, just like all the judging I'd like it to be more consistent, but I don't mind the idea of not allowing lifts.

 

But I'd also like the dances to stop including excessive sets and using all the of troupe every week and making every night a theme and clearly TPTB don't agree with me there, so I'm clearly probably in the minority.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I'm with you, McManda! I think that it's easy to let the production value of the sets and troupe dancers distract the judges as well as the audience from the celeb's actual dancing (which is supposed to be the whole point of this show). When I look back on S1, it all seems so stripped down, which I like. There was nothing to hide behind. Then I look at recent seasons and every freaking week has a theme and half the routines have backup dancers, huge sets, smoke, etc. meant to make us think that this was an impressive routine when in reality there is maybe 45 seconds of the celeb actually dancing.

I agree about the lifts too. People are too easily impressed by them (see also: SYTYCD which has become a liftapalooza in recent years) but they're not necessary in most dances. I'm fine with DWTS allowing lifts in certain dance styles that traditionally have lifts to discourage having lifts in every dance. Besides I want the celebs to focus on learning the proper ballroom technique, not wasting precious hours trying to do a lift safely.

Edited April 22, 2016 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Uke]

I agree about the lifts and would add that I think they take a toll on the pros, bringing injuries that aren't allowed to properly heal until the season is over and I expect will wind up shortening careers. 

 

As for production, I'd just like a better balance. Maybe most weeks sticking to standard ballroom and latin and then just some weeks let the pros go all out with their creativity.  Not every week.  But once in a while and then it IS a special event.

[mimirose41209]

I wish TPTB would go back to an earlier format where half the contestants did the same Latin dance (cha cha cha) and the other half did a ballroom dance (foxtrot). That way we the audience get to see just 2 dances and really learn what they are. Then the next week group A does ballroom and group B does Latin ~ again 1 dance each style. Also if they are going to use the troupe then have them do proper demo dances and not just 'jazzed up/fancy dances'. Do beginner and intermediate dances to show what we could expect from the stars.

[nutty1]

Hmmmmmm.....

http://www.wetpaint.com/nyle-dimarco-judges-dancing-with-the-stars-1487071/?postId=799803&socialTitle=A%2Bvisibly%2Bannoyed%2BMaks%2Bcomes%2Bforward%2Band%2Breveals%2Bwhy%2BLen%2Bis%2Bto%2Bblame%2Bfor%2BNyle%2527s%2Bscoring%2Bsnafu%2B%2528burn%2529%2521&utm_campaign=repromote&utm_medium=fnpg-dwtsthree&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_term=1461390474982382

[truthaboutluv]

"If you're going to replace me, you better bring what I used to bring..." My goodness is there anyone more in love with and more up their own ass than Maks? And I'm sorry but seems to me all Maks "brought" in the way of this show was a bunch of showmances, some tired and repetitive choreography with the occasional amazing dance and petty drama with the judges that got his mug on a few entertainment shows the day after.

 

Even his "amazing" partnership with Meryl, I swear I heard less about his choreography and more about the so-called love story that turned out to be nothing but a farce for some votes. Maks needs to take several, and I mean several seats and drink a giant cup of STFU. And someone should really tell him he's not going to stay young forever, so he might want to quit with the constant old jokes about Len.

Edited April 23, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[ocelot]

The pros and celebs can't actually dance or choreograph contemporary musicality, movement, dynamics, etc, and they can't do the other standard 'tricks' like turns, leaps, extensions (some of the females are capable, Jenna from troupe is the most capable contemporary dancer on the show) so they're left with lifts. Lifts lifts lifts. And boring lifts too: pick up the girl and turn slowly in a circle not matching the music in any way lifts. Like there are creative and interesting lifts, lifts that go with the music or the story of the dance, enhance the choreo, make beautiful shapes. But not here lol.

[McManda]

Sounds like a pretty good argument to stop pushing contemporary as DWTS dance style to me.

[RedFiat]

We don't know anything real about the fanbase of either. People are endlessly presuming Jodie is on the brink of elimination based on her being paired with Keo and the fact that they have had her in the faux B2 or B3 twice. Neither time was it said that it was the actual B2 or B3 announced. Just because they have Jodie standing there, doesn't mean she's there. Just because Ginger is always declared safe early on, doesn't mean she is. This is all assumption. Also Ginger has a national platform on GMA every single day of the week so Ginger isn't exactly unrepresented. There is usually rhyme or reason for who TPTB have sweat it out in the bottom group, but unless Tom announces "bottom two" everything else people are just assuming.

Every season someone says it means nothing, but for a good dancer to be there twice before week 5 means something is not working, and they are putting her there to crank up support for her. Sure it is normal to see Doug there, low marks but a sentimental fave, but Maks was pretty direct about fan base, when talking about Jodie. When the show tips its hand like that, it is hard to deny she isn't getting the votes. Edited April 24, 2016 by RedFiat

[HappyDancex2]

I don't watch GMA so i am not familiar with Ginger. I feel like the producers are trying to convince me she is awesome. The early reference to her being like Bindi was rather astounding. She seems perfectly nice, but not inspiring.

I am a Maks fan and recall his previous guest stints were very vanilla. I don't mind him taking on the role of Strict Judge but he needs to find a softer more articulate way to convey his points. Brash doesn't read well here. Len gets away with the Grumpy Old Man role. Criticism is fine but the celebs are not pro dancers....if I worked hard and took the risk of putting myself out there, I don't want flippant remarks.

What popped into my head this week with Erin seemed like desperate callback to their time together, which I felt was awkward and left me thinking who hasn't Maks slept with in the ballroom that night???? Kudos to Peta for being able to put up with that. I'm sure she's worked things out with Karina over the years as fellow dancers and exs of Maks but Erin is another story. I don't know why but I don't think Erin should remind people she banged Maks with his fiancée there. It's just disrespectful to me.

So far I'm not finding this season's crop of stars very compelling. The talented ones just haven't roped me in, the athletes are Meh and I'm impressed with Nyle but the novelty is starting to wear off. He's very good and an amazing story though.

[truthaboutluv]

I don't know why but I don't think Erin should remind people she banged Maks with his fiancée there. It's just disrespectful to me.

 

She wasn't referencing banging him, at least I didn't take it that way. She was referencing her time as his celebrity partner, which is how they met in the first place and which I'm sure everyone is well aware of. Her comment was that the judges criticized the celebrity's lack of energy but if she had had that much energy when competing with Maks he would have died. It was a nice way, I thought, to make the celebrity feel better about their efforts.

 

If people's minds went to her and Maks banging, well that's on him for having multiple showmances on the show. Erin shouldn't have to censor and worry about referencing when she competed with Maks because Peta is there. Peta is a big girl, I'm sure she's well aware of Maks' past activities. Hell, she was the ex-girlfriend, along with the ex-fiancee Karina and other ex-girlfriend Erin, when Maks was showmancing his way to his one mirrorball win with Meryl.

Edited April 24, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[gohawks]

Maks did his job. He was hired to stir the pot and probably told to be assey (he was nothing but sweet on his first two visits, Karina was especially pleased with his comments the first time he was a guest judge). People are butthurt and ranting now so I am sure TPTB are pleased. Like most scripted reality shows, DWTS needs a villain and a hero. I believe that Derek is a fake,smarmy,passive-aggressive, bitchy, politician who played only to his stans. Derek was the villain on this show for me, just as Maks is for others. It's theater.

Edited April 25, 2016 by gohawks

[katha]

Maks did his job. He was hired to stir the pot and probably told to be assey (he was nothing but sweet on his first two visits, Karina was especially pleased with his comments the first time he was a guest judge). People are butthurt and ranting now so I am sure TPTB are pleased. Like most scripted reality shows, DWTS needs a villain and a hero. I believe that Derek is a fake,smarmy,passive-aggressive, bitchy, politician who played only to his stans. Derek was the villain on this show for me, just as Maks is for others. It's theater.

They also got a week of headlines out of it. Something that wouldn't have happened if nothing "controversial" had taken place. Sometimes this show is trudging along and it seems like there's not too much producer interference (of course it's never true), but last week you saw the wheels spinning. It was super obvious that both Len and Maks had been instructed to do their worst, and they did.