S02.E02: Primary

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Cole gets stranded in 2016 after an attempt to destroy the virus changes the future; Jones and Railly deal with the consequences of the changed timeline.

 

 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Promo:

 

Clip:

 

Inside the episode:

[merylinkid]

Obekaybe then.     like future Dr. Jones much better than 2016ish Dr. Jones.   2016ish Dr. Jones is a prig "don't tell me it might mess up history" blah blah blah.   Wow, they saved some lives by Cassie using some of her knowledge of the future.

 

Ramses shut up about your son not existing.   Some things still happen.   You could still get with Mom and have a kid.   Or you could wind up with someone else (hello Dr. Lasky and Mrs. Dr. Jones got something going on.  RIP Billy Paul) and have a kid.   You want a kid, well, biology is still pretty much the same dude.  Why get hung up on a kid you never knew.   Clearly you are only attracted to the DNA.   You can replicate that.  

 

Just spitballing here, but if the Messengers went back in time, might they not be carriers of the virus?   Immune themselves but once exposed to the 90% of the population who is not, well, look, there's a plague.  No need to inject, deliberately release, etc.  Just -- biology.   Oooh look that word again.

 

I love this show.   I really really do.   Every week there is a "Holy shit" moment.

[mjc570]

I really liked this episode.  I love the new Cassie and Deacon, but I especially love everything to do with Jennifer.  She is funny and awesome.

 

I was impressed by the show's attention to detail - in the new future, Dr. Jones even looks younger and less stressed out than she did in the original timeline.  Cole - maybe killing people didn't accomplish your mission because you were killing the wrong people.

 

Yeah, I don't get the Ramses/ son thing at all - he's known Sam for what, 2 days?  And the perpetuation of his genes is so important that billions of people have to die? 

 

I liked the hotel fake out - I thought they were going to do something bad to Cole (turn him over to the Messangers or something), not treat him as an honored guest. 

[Chaos Theory]

So Cole got soft, Cassie got hard. And Jennifer is still crazy.

I think I am in love with DarkCassie.

Is Paul Hogan in every Dystopian future/past because I think he might be evil. Or just awesome. Either/or.

:

[kat165]

I love what they're doing and saying about time. This is fascinating

to me. Interesting that Olivia told Jennifer "you are time." I wonder

what that means. And what is her new purpose (aside from saving

Cole). Great ep. Gonna watch the replay at midnight.

 

Kirk Acevedo was so hot in that jail cell. I got flashbacks of Miguel

Alvarez in Oz.

Edited April 26, 2016 by kat165

[Jaded Sapphire]

Cassie and Deacon have definitely gotten 'close' in those interim 8 months. 

 

I really felt Cole's speech at the end, acting and story-wise. For whatever reason, letting people die is not the answer in this universe. Letting Cassie die made things worse, letting Ramsey die would have (I believe) kept them stuck in the time loop that was Season 1, and saving Jennifer let them continue the mission - Cole was the only person with the information they needed to go after the Messengers and he wouldn't have been brought back to 2044 without Jennifer's interference. I'm just saying, dude's got a point.

[Rhetorica]

So is Electricboogaloo's time line to be disregarded now that there's a reset? I think Cole and Jennifer have so much more chemistry than Cole and Cassie. I,too, tire of the son storyline.

[thuganomics85]

Damn, Cassie's gotten stone-cold in those eight months!  And it does seem like she has gotten close to Deacon, which is just a strange pairing right there.  But I'm intrigued over the idea of her and Cole basically swapping roles for now.  I do think she was showing some signs of thawing, after Cole's speech at the end, but I'm sure she's still going to be a bit trigger-happy going forward.

 

Jennifer is as nutty as always, but I felt a bit more sorry for her, now that I see that her craziness is caused by these voices and this Olivia person consistently in her head.  That would be horrible to deal with, even if unleashing a virus on a billion or so people, would still be taking it way too far.  I'm really enjoying Emily Hampshire's performance on this show.

 

Ramse ends up helping shape the Deacon we see now, since he was the one who called the cops on Deacon's abusive dad.  

 

So, Cassie, Cole, and the rest managed to delay the virus spread for a few years and also the size of the casualties.  I liked the subtle differences in 2044 now.  Especially the bit when Jones just casually mentions Dr. Lasky died in other timeline, and Lasky was just like Wait... what?!!" about it.  The downside is that she doesn't remember anything about her marriage in this new timeline.  But if anyone could make it work again, it would be Michael Hogan!

 

Cole and Cassie are heading to the 1940s!  Oh, yeah!

 

Wondering what the Messengers are up to, now.

[Cthulhudrew]

Two episodes in, and I'm not sure what to think. It doesn't quite feel like the same show I fell in love with last season, but I can't place my finger on why exactly. It doesn't seem to be making my head spin quite as much, and I can't help but feel as if they are handling the time travel much more blatantly and less ambiguously, which I don't like as much. They are still doing a better job than most time travel shows (I'm looking at you, Legends of Tomorrow!!), but it just... feels different. And this timeline alteration is also a bag of mixed emotions for me. It was unexpected, to say the least (I joked aloud "that was a short season" when it started to happen), but not sure if I like.

That said, I still love all the characters, and their performances are great. Emily Hampshire knocked it out of the park this week as Jennifer, that's for sure. Cole seems to have gotten a bit too soft and Cassie a bit too hardened, both a bit too suddenly, but I still really enjoy them, and I loved their scene at the end.

I'm also wondering if/when they are going to go back to Dr. Jones' husband this season. His brief appearance at the end of last season seemed to suggest he'd be a bigger part moving forward, but it seems like he's been dropped (okay, maybe I'm getting ahead of myself on this show about time travel).

Also, does anyone know if Tom Noonan is returning this season?

[wanderingstar]

Quote

Kirk Acevedo was so hot in that jail cell.

He was! But then I have been a big KA fangirl for a long while now.

I'll defend Ramse's stance on his son a little bit. I think his son represents what could have been for him and Elena - the family life they never had, and that's why he's so desperate to keep his son alive. For me, one of the themes of this show is how individuals cope with and navigate the dystopian world created by the plague. Ramse was a scav, but learning that Elena was alive and that they had a son gave him a different vision of himself. I can see why he'd want to preserve that in some way. Sure it's selfish, but who hasn't been in this series.

[bethy]

I liked that Cole's speech at the end essentially turned the go-back-in-time-and-kill-Hitler trope on its head. What if preventing the holocaust wasn't about killing one man, but saving another? I don't know. I just really liked that change in perspective about how a disaster - or actual evil - might be thwarted.

I think Cassie had told herself that the only way to survive in 2044 was to turn off her emotions, and I think it's possible that she used Cole as she first knew him as an example to follow. I don't think eight months is a long enough time for it to be a total transformation, and I think that scene at the end between her and Cole already points toward a softening. But I really liked that she took ownership of who she'd become when Cole tried to take that on.

What happened with Deacon's illness? Cassie was going to get meds but the machine broke, right? And yeah. There's something going on between them.

Finally, I hope that Michael Hogan ends up being a good guy. I really liked his easy-going, well sure, it's cool if I have to court you again, reaction to Katrina's not knowing him. 

[shapeshifter]

On 4/29/2016 at 7:24 PM, bethy said:

I liked that Cole's speech at the end essentially turned the go-back-in-time-and-kill-Hitler trope on its head. What if preventing the holocaust wasn't about killing one man, but saving another? I don't know. I just really liked that change in perspective about how a disaster - or actual evil - might be thwarted....

...Finally, I hope that Michael Hogan ends up being a good guy. I really liked his easy-going, well sure, it's cool if I have to court you again, reaction to Katrina's not knowing him. 

Both of these points in this episode reassured me about the whole show.

I also appreciated Cole getting through to Jennifer about killing everyone would not stop the voices. At least I think he did. She seems to be schizophrenic in the medical sense, but I guess that red forest drug could have made her that way to convince her of her "purpose."

Spoiler

The recently aired time travel show 11.22.63 conversely illustrated that saving Kennedy didn't prevent war or civil unrest.

[bethy]

Would someone remind me what we know about the red forest? I remember Cassie had a vision about it. I remember that the plants that got sent forward turned red. I remember that that plants didn't turn red unless "he" had been there. Do we know what the significance of it is? Every time it comes up, I think I should know something about what the deal is, but I have no idea.

[Jaded Sapphire]

27 minutes ago, bethy said:

Would someone remind me what we know about the red forest? I remember Cassie had a vision about it. I remember that the plants that got sent forward turned red. I remember that that plants didn't turn red unless "he" had been there. Do we know what the significance of it is? Every time it comes up, I think I should know something about what the deal is, but I have no idea.

It's about 'temporal interference.' Plants turn from green to red whenever the plant is: 

a) transported through time (the plants sent by Mr. Jones to the future turned red)

b) near someone who travels through time (a plant that was near Cole when he splintered turned red)

or

c) in the proximity of a paradox 'shockwave' (the entire garden around the pendant(s) turned red after they touched)

Edited April 30, 2016 by Jaded Sapphire
because grammar

[bethy]

Thanks! So it's not just about Cole, but about anyone traveling through time? 

[Jaded Sapphire]

Yep. 

The Witness, whoever he is, must be a time traveler since plants turn red around him too. (Or maybe he's somehow a walking paradox?)

Edited April 30, 2016 by Jaded Sapphire

[snarktini]

Ramse has a strange moral compass. He spends a lifetime protecting and fighting alongside Cole. Then he kills Cole, regrets it, yet works with the 12 Monkeys anyway...but only a little, he says. Just enough to help them find the virus, so that 7 Billion can die to (theoretically) save one child, a son he doesn't even know. Switches back to Cole's side, yet refuses to destroy the virus. He's standing with him, but won't act. There is a very weird passivity and ambivalence to him. I don't get it.

I have no patience for the idea of choosing to let billions die to save one person, even if it's me or someone I love. It's an awfully black-and-white position and one that I can't know if I would live up to if push came to shove, but I truly hope I would never choose that and I'd hope someone more objective would stop me if I did.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, snarktini said:

Ramse has a strange moral compass. He spends a lifetime protecting and fighting alongside Cole. Then he kills Cole, regrets it, yet works with the 12 Monkeys anyway...but only a little, he says. Just enough to help them find the virus, so that 7 Billion can die to (theoretically) save one child, a son he doesn't even know. Switches back to Cole's side, yet refuses to destroy the virus. He's standing with him, but won't act. There is a very weird passivity and ambivalence to him. I don't get it.

I have no patience for the idea of choosing to let billions die to save one person, even if it's me or someone I love. It's an awfully black-and-white position and one that I can't know if I would live up to if push came to shove, but I truly hope I would never choose that and I'd hope someone more objective would stop me if I did.

I can accept his viewpoint because he grew up in a world with a relatively small population where the loss of billions of people was an accepted part of life, so his perspective is not like ours. But if it's retconning that's creating his perspective, I am annoyed.

[solea]

You don't destroy a virulent and lethal virus by throwing some lighter fluid on it and lighting a match. Yeesh 

I'm not liking the new Cassie only because I think the actress isn't up to the task. She's fairly one note. 

I don't remember… how did they resolve the issue with time travel slowly killing Cole?

[waving feather]

On 5/3/2016 at 0:25 PM, solea said:

I'm not liking the new Cassie only because I think the actress isn't up to the task. She's fairly one note.

I'm beginning to see this. I like Amanda Schull but I can see her weakness in playing this role. It's okay, but not entirely convincing. Aaron Stanford, on the other hand, can do it both ways - convincing as the hardy and reckless Cole and this big softie we have now. The best scene of the episode was actually the one with Jennifer and Cole, in the hotel rooms (201 and 607). Man, both were so good.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Something I was struggling with, especially during this episode..... so was Jennifer holding a torch for Cole?  She seemed to be trying to get him to notice her, told him that Cassie wouldn't love him like he wanted, and then slashed herself after seeing a pic of Cassie/Cole together.  I noticed the other stuff she did in acting all in lust with him, in eps like 1.2, 1.5 & 1.13, but I just thought that was Jennifer being cray-cray.  But then there was the mental projection or memory of Olivia telling her that she could have him (Cole), and it seems what started out as just fun to her crazy side got fueled by delusions instilled by Olivia.

And are we to take it literally, since she sees time, its influences, changes & results and all that, when she said that "together, you end the world", speaking of Cole/Cassie?  If so, guess we can expect a pretty non-happy & horribly sad ending for those two [if it goes there in the show's future].

Edited May 6, 2016 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[waving feather]

My interpretation is that she got attached to him through their shared experiences. He was the one who sort of rescued her time and time again and he was always kind to her when people were treating her as a crazy person.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 5/3/2016 at 9:25 PM, solea said:

You don't destroy a virulent and lethal virus by throwing some lighter fluid on it and lighting a match. Yeesh

That REALLY bothered me too. I was yelling at them not to set the virus on fire and unleash it into the air!

[supposebly]

This was better, it illustrated Ramse's dilemma much better. I'm continually impressed with everyone except Amanda Schull. She's just not that good and I never saw that chemistry with Cole that people were talking about. This whole relationship falls completely flat for me.

Cole and Jennifer, now THAT is chemistry! Emily Hampshire makes a character that is potentially really irritating funny, heartbreaking, and very interesting.

Michael Hogan! Yeah! Jones' face after he revealed what they are to each other was hilarious! I can't wait to see their "courtship 2.0".