Jump to content
Forums forums
PRIMETIMER
Joe

The Star Wars Saga

Recommended Posts

Ive posted criticisms before here but overall I like the prequels. People say theat if only they had better writing and acting and direction and I agree the execution left something to be desired. Even if it had Oscar level acting and dialogue though I think a lot of fans would've still disliked them because it was so different from their perception and belief what Star Wars is and should be. The OT Star Wars was clear good vs evil and black and white. The prequels are all moral grey areas.

 

Edited by VCRTracking
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

RotS is just about the only prequel movie worth watching, IMO. However, The Clone Wars animated series, especially S7 is the perfect prequel series, it really gives depth to Anakin's turn.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

Ive posted criticisms before here but overall I like the prequels. People say theat if only they had better writing and acting and direction and I agree the execution left something to be desired. Even if it had Oscar level acting and dialogue though I think a lot of fans would've still disliked them because it was so different from their perception and belief what Star Wars is and should be. The OT Star Wars was clear good vs evil and black and white. The prequels are all moral grey areas.

 

Probably, although for me its mixed. I love the Prequels but I do think the execution could have been better and I do see where people have problems with it. As much as I love TPM they really didn't need to explore Anakin's young years we could have gotten the same information if they started out with Anakin already learning from Obi-Wan, introducing the Jedi, Palpatine and the problems. Maybe Padme or that could have been saved until the next one. Its a great movie but it made them have to put so much into Attack of the Clone that it didn't really give the characters or story much breathing room. Anakin in particular, Padme and the Jedi. They had so much to do in that one movie that not even the best actors could have pulled it off. There was so much going on. I watch the Clone Wars and read all the books so it was easier for me to follow along. But you shouldn't have to do that in order to watch the Prequels. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

I used to really hate the prequels. I always thought Anakin was whiny and dramatic-not the Anakin who was the best friend to Ben Kenobi. I was also pretty young when they came out and OT Star Wars were my favorite movies.

Now, as a thirty-somthing, Anakin and the Jedi makes me so sad in the prequels. The Clone Wars show is what I wish the Prequels had been-Anakin and Kenobi off causing all sorts of trouble saving the galaxy together. More show than the telling they did in Revenge. But Anakin’s struggles with attachments, the genocide of the Jedi, the fall of the Clones really makes me sad now. The “what could have beens,” the loss lives, and what the Skywalkers could have been break my heart.

However, I really hate Padme’s story in Revenge. I know the story was Anakin’s, but what a missed opportunity. Instead of her locked away in her apartment, we could have started to see her build a rebellion, see more of her reacting to Anakin’s change of character, hiding her pregnancy or starting to piece together Palpatine’s betrayal. I know, deleted scenes but with females already so incredibly sparse in Star Wars, it would have been nice. I also hate her dying of a broken heart. Ugh.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

Perhaps an unpopular opinion, but I think the Palpatine parts of RotS--prior to killing Mace--is legitimately the best acting in all nine movies.

Of course, the only movies I like more than RotS are Empire and Rogue One, so what do I know.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Happy real Star Wars Day! To celebrate, I rewatched TROS. It's still flawed but entertaining. I laughed and groaned at the same moments. Rey Palpatine... I'm not sure I'm supposed to laugh at that, but I do anway.

I caught Finn feeling the Force more this time, and noticed the origin of Rey's new lightsabre at the end. The hilt resembles the top of her staff! I have no idea as to the rest of it, but it's still a fun discovery.

How are you celebrating Star Wars Day? Tell me something nifty.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Anduin said:

How are you celebrating Star Wars Day? Tell me something nifty.

I like going on YouTube and seeing reaction videos of people, most of them under 30 watching the movies for the first time and enjoying them. A lot of them are impressed by how good the special effects from the late 70s and early 80s. I also like seeing them watch the prequels and because of their reputation they have lowered expectations and they like them too.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
20 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

I like going on YouTube and seeing reaction videos of people, most of them under 30 watching the movies for the first time and enjoying them. A lot of them are impressed by how good the special effects from the late 70s and early 80s. I also like seeing them watch the prequels and because of their reputation they have lowered expectations and they like them too.

I've never been into reaction videos, but it sounds fun!

But in non-fun news, the High Republic launch has been delayed. January at the earliest. I'm not surprised. Creative work is hard in turbulent times, and the death of someone close can disrupt the appropriate mindset. Furthermore, it's not just putting a few ebooks up on the usual sites. Physical books and marketing material need to be printed and shipped. You may say that many people are getting back to work. But not everyone.

If someone in a key position died, that would be another factor to slow the process down.

Finally, there might be a little strategic editing and/or rewriting to make sure Burryaga Agaburry properly comes across as the star.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/25/2020 at 6:12 PM, VCRTracking said:

I like going on YouTube and seeing reaction videos of people, most of them under 30 watching the movies for the first time and enjoying them. A lot of them are impressed by how good the special effects from the late 70s and early 80s. I also like seeing them watch the prequels and because of their reputation they have lowered expectations and they like them too.

The Normies reaction videos to the original trilogy were fun, but I couldn't watch their prequel reactions. I can't appreciate anything about those movies, so leave those who can to their own devices.

Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus are doing a podcast called Newcomers: Star Wars, where they watch Star Wars for the first time - all of it. While it's been entertaining in parts, I got annoyed with them gushing over Kylo Ren and then they said they didn't like Rogue One, so I checked out. 

I like Nicole Byer in some stuff, but her schtick of 'this is all so silly, what's this guy's name? Hans?' got old.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Nicole Byer and Lauren Lapkus are doing a podcast called Newcomers: Star Wars, where they watch Star Wars for the first time - all of it. While it's been entertaining in parts, I got annoyed with them gushing over Kylo Ren and then they said they didn't like Rogue One, so I checked out.

I tried that too! The idea is good, but the execution is severely lacking.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
7 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

The Normies reaction videos to the original trilogy were fun, but I couldn't watch their prequel reactions. I can't appreciate anything about those movies, so leave those who can to their own devices.

They've only watched TPM so far. I think the pandemic halted plans and everyone is self quarantining but I am looking forward to their reacting to the rest. They liked it. Older fans can complain about it's flaws but their are things that work even 20 years later like Darth Maul and the lightsaber duel.

My favorite parts of the Normies OT videos are one Millennial girl, Rana's reaction to seeing young Harrison Ford for the first time(*gasp* "Oh my God!"), the other girl, who is Eastern European, annoyed  reaction to Han saying "I know." after Leia tells him she loves him (What a dick! That's not what you say!") and the group's shocked reaction to the part where an Ewok gets killed.

Edited by VCRTracking

Share this post


Link to post

4 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

They've only watched TPM so far. I think the pandemic halted plans and everyone is self quarantining but I am looking forward to their reacting to the rest. They liked it. Older fans can complain about it's flaws but their are things that work even 20 years later like Darth Maul and the lightsaber duel.

My favorite parts of the Normies OT videos are one Millennial girl, Rana's reaction to seeing young Harrison Ford for the first time(*gasp* "Oh my God!"), the other girl, who is Eastern European, annoyed  reaction to Han saying "I know." after Leia tells him she loves him (What a dick! That's not what you say!") and the group's shocked reaction to the part where an Ewok gets killed.

Rana's my favourite of the group. She always seems to be super into whatever they're watching, no matter the genre. She even got a shout out in season 4 of The Expanse, when the writers named a minor character after her.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

Rana's my favourite of the group. She always seems to be super into whatever they're watching, no matter the genre. She even got a shout out in season 4 of The Expanse, when the writers named a minor character after her.

I loved her reaction videos with another girl Nikki to LOST, a series I was into when it aired but stopped thinking about after it ended. Seeing them watch the show for the first time episode by episode every week reminded me why I loved it. It's fun seeing them discuss afterwards the mystery of the island, crazy twists and plot turns  what happens to each character and how they evolved and their relationships with each other.

I had seen ANH so many times by this point that it's impossible for the story to impact the way it did the first time. I now watch it to appreciate the craftsmanship and the level of detail in the sets, the costumes and special effects.

Edited by VCRTracking

Share this post


Link to post

I watched RotS last night.

It struck that it was perfectly logical that Anakin had a son that was as whiny as he was.  But I can't for the life of me figure out how dull Padme managed to have a daughter who was as charismatic as Leah.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Leia was raised as a princess/politician on Alderran. Probably got it from her adoptive parents.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
On 5/31/2020 at 12:51 PM, starri said:

But I can't for the life of me figure out how dull Padme managed to have a daughter who was as charismatic as Leah.

I think Padme was more interesting in The Phantom Menace but she got more dull and insipid as the prequel films progressed. She apparently had some scenes relating to the political storyline in Return of the sith, but those got scrapped. 

Edited by Athena
  • Like 2
  • Useful 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, starri said:

I watched RotS last night.

It struck that it was perfectly logical that Anakin had a son that was as whiny as he was.  But I can't for the life of me figure out how dull Padme managed to have a daughter who was as charismatic as Leah.

Probably for the same reason Leia ended up with a patricidal whiner for a son.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

2 hours ago, Athena said:

I think Padme was more interesting in The Phantom Menace but she got more dull and insipid as the prequel films progressed. She apparently had some scenes relating to the political storyline in Return of the Jedi, but those got scrapped. 

She did. They were put on the DVD as extra scenes. They showed her meeting with other senators worried about Palpatine's power although they don't seem to realize he's evil Organa and a young Mon Mothma are part of it. They sign a petition and present it to Palpatine. Which in the book Palpatine uses to arrest those Senators as traitors at the same time the Jedi are being massacred. It lays the seeds of the rebellion. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

And Mon Mothma was played by Genevieve O'Reilly, who went on to play her in Rogue One.  Although I guess with how much she resembles Caroline Blakiston, how could they not?

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
12 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

They sign a petition and present it to Palpatine. Which in the book Palpatine uses to arrest those Senators as traitors at the same time the Jedi are being massacred. It lays the seeds of the rebellion. 

How was Organa able to raise Leia if he was arrested as a traitor? How would the Rebellion leaders manage 20 years of rebel activity locked (dead?) up?

 

Edited by Morrigan2575

Share this post


Link to post
14 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

She did. They were put on the DVD as extra scenes. They showed her meeting with other senators worried about Palpatine's power although they don't seem to realize he's evil Organa and a young Mon Mothma are part of it. They sign a petition and present it to Palpatine. Which in the book Palpatine uses to arrest those Senators as traitors at the same time the Jedi are being massacred. It lays the seeds of the rebellion. 

I actually saw these scenes and have the DVD but it's been so long since I watched it. Ha. They weren't scintillating but at least Padme did something else in Return of the Sith other than simper about Anakin. 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

How was Organa able to raise Leia if he was arrested as a traitor? How would the Rebellion leaders manage 20 years of rebel activity locked (dead?) up?

 

Oh, sorry, Organa attended the meetings but never signed the petition. 

Share this post


Link to post

Leia was stubborn like Padme, but I always thought her personality was more like Anakin’s smartass side (that was mostly present in the Clone Wars cartoon)

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

44 minutes ago, absnow54 said:

Leia was stubborn like Padme, but I always thought her personality was more like Anakin’s smartass side (that was mostly present in the Clone Wars cartoon)

I've thought that too. Even though Leia and Luke followed their parents' career paths Leia was more like Anakin and Luke was more like Padme although he did inherit whining from his father. Leia's remarks about their rescue? I could so see Anakin doing the same thing. 

Share this post


Link to post

@andromeda331 I just think of the new cannon established in Rogue One, where Vader literally watches the plans board Leia’s ship mere moments before he captures her, and she plays it off all “what plans.” It’s such shades of Clone Wars Anakin, you know that causes Vader’s tempers to flare. I hope they write a book or comic series some day that explores the Vader/Leia dynamic, because no one really acknowledges that she grew up right under his nose, with Alderaan being a core planet, and her being a part of the political scene from a young age. 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

Oh, sorry, Organa attended the meetings but never signed the petition. 

ahhh, ok that makes sense.  Thanks for the explanation

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

An interesting examination of Leia's iconic look from "Star Wars"

I never really thought that much about her costume, other than being happy that she's not running around in heels and of course Carrie's great comment about drowning in moonlight, strangled by her own bra, lol.

 

Quote

Taking all of this in consideration, it’s clear that Leia is a highly adept diplomat and political operative who knows how to use the expectations of her youth and her looks to manipulate the reactions of those around her. This is an undercover costume designed to hide her true nature and actions as well as a performative costume designed to soften the heart of a long-lost hermit-wizard who stands as her only hope for triumph.

Like literally everything else about the character, this costume shows Leia to be far more clever and savvy than anyone realizes when they first encounter her. Deceptively pure, deceptively simple, deceptively romantic – and still practical enough to sling a blaster when a princess needs to.

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post

From @VCRTracking in the Rise of Skywalker thread, thought it was more on topic here:

He saw the evil but still wasn't ready to join the fight against them. He had gone from running away to caring about Rey and willing to risk his life for her. That was just his first step. If Rey decided to stay on Jakku instead of being part of the Resistance he would have gone with her. He would have gone to Crait with her too if he hadn't been injured. That's where JJ left the character in TFA.

I get Rose seeming to lecture Finn rubbed people the wrong way but she was speaking firsthand as a victim of the First Order. She wasn't someone pretending to have the moral high ground because she had a semester or two at college.

Finn's src in TLJ is a combination of both Luke's and Han's which means he's callow like Luke but also not looking to get involved in the struggle like Han. In Empire both characters were lectured, Luke by Yoda, Han by Leia. Rose isn't a 900 year old Jedi nor a princess so her doing it seems insulting to Finn's character. 

 

Han's arc in ANH is that he's only looking out for himself, but through his friendship with Luke he joins the fight against the Empire to save what he loves.

I don't recall Leia lecturing Han in ESB, I remember that she was upset that he was leaving, but that was pretty clearly more about her own personal feelings for him being hurt that he was going. Han's reason for leaving (That Jabba is sending bounty hunters after him and that there have been close calls, so he needs to clear up his debt for the good of himself and the people around him) isn't framed as him not caring about the Rebellion. The Rebel General agrees and understands even if he doesn't want to lose him as a soldier. Han doesn't need to be taught why to fight the Empire, because Han already figured it out for himself in ANH and ESB doesn't strip that away from him for the sake of having a new character teach him the lesson.

Finn's arc in TFA is that he hates TFO but doesn't want to fight them out of anger, through his friendship with Rey he learns to fight to save what he loves as the reason to face down TFO. Even though he says he's only there for Rey he still does everything to help Han and the Resistance, he doesn't try to ditch them to find Rey, nor makes any mention that they should leave rather than helping to take down star killer base even though it's very dangerous for them. His actions show that he's 'in' with the Resistance. At the same time his refusal to give up on Rey is what she needs to be able to realize that she can make her own family instead of waiting on her parents to come back for her or some other hero to save her. She's able to follow Finn's example to stand up to Kylo Ren by listening to the Force.

Finn's arc in TLJ is to treat his relationship with Rey as a one sided joke where he runs around yelling her name while wearing a leaking water balloon and she basically forgets he exists while becoming friends with the guy who put him in a coma, he's then stripped of his freedom and agency he spent the previous film earning by Rose, starts fighting TFO out of hate and anger because he sees some animals being treated badly (after they kept him as a slave) ... Then Rose crashes her speeder into him and teaches him he should, wait for it, fight to save what he loves instead of destroy what he hates.

Finn's entire arc in TLJ is tearing down his entire character to rebuild him to basically where he was at the end of the previous film but giving credit for his growth and agency to Rose instead of himself. It likewise removes his role in Rey's growth from TFA so that Kylo Ren of all people can teach her that she doesn't need to wait for her family to come back.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
5 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

From @VCRTracking in the Rise of Skywalker thread, thought it was more on topic here:

 

Han's arc in ANH is that he's only looking out for himself, but through his friendship with Luke he joins the fight against the Empire to save what he loves.

I don't recall Leia lecturing Han in ESB, I remember that she was upset that he was leaving, but that was pretty clearly more about her own personal feelings for him being hurt that he was going. Han's reason for leaving (That Jabba is sending bounty hunters after him and that there have been close calls, so he needs to clear up his debt for the good of himself and the people around him) isn't framed as him not caring about the Rebellion. The Rebel General agrees and understands even if he doesn't want to lose him as a soldier. Han doesn't need to be taught why to fight the Empire, because Han already figured it out for himself in ANH and ESB doesn't strip that away from him for the sake of having a new character teach him the lesson.

Finn's arc in TFA is that he hates TFO but doesn't want to fight them out of anger, through his friendship with Rey he learns to fight to save what he loves as the reason to face down TFO. Even though he says he's only there for Rey he still does everything to help Han and the Resistance, he doesn't try to ditch them to find Rey, nor makes any mention that they should leave rather than helping to take down star killer base even though it's very dangerous for them. His actions show that he's 'in' with the Resistance. At the same time his refusal to give up on Rey is what she needs to be able to realize that she can make her own family instead of waiting on her parents to come back for her or some other hero to save her. She's able to follow Finn's example to stand up to Kylo Ren by listening to the Force.

Finn's arc in TLJ is to treat his relationship with Rey as a one sided joke where he runs around yelling her name while wearing a leaking water balloon and she basically forgets he exists while becoming friends with the guy who put him in a coma, he's then stripped of his freedom and agency he spent the previous film earning by Rose, starts fighting TFO out of hate and anger because he sees some animals being treated badly (after they kept him as a slave) ... Then Rose crashes her speeder into him and teaches him he should, wait for it, fight to save what he loves instead of destroy what he hates.

Finn's entire arc in TLJ is tearing down his entire character to rebuild him to basically where he was at the end of the previous film but giving credit for his growth and agency to Rose instead of himself. It likewise removes his role in Rey's growth from TFA so that Kylo Ren of all people can teach her that she doesn't need to wait for her family to come back.

If Finn hadn't been comatose at the end of TFA and had gotten to declare his feelings for Rey, she would have told him he likes him but only as a friend. He would have then accepted and left her and the Resistance behind. He wouldn't have been content at that point to be just "family" to her. 

Share this post


Link to post

6 hours ago, Perfect Xero said:

Finn's entire arc in TLJ is tearing down his entire character to rebuild him to basically where he was at the end of the previous film but giving credit for his growth and agency to Rose instead of himself. It likewise removes his role in Rey's growth from TFA so that Kylo Ren of all people can teach her that she doesn't need to wait for her family to come back.

Couldn’t have said it any better myself. This is just a perfect and complete summary of everything wrong with TLJ. Rian’s agenda was to knock Finn down from his role in TFA, the narrative equivalent of dealing with an ‘uppity’ black man, and the fact that he gets away with it after doing it so crudely, so blatantly and with no subtlety whatsoever, shows how ingrained  anti-blackness is in the industry. 

Edited by ursula
  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Empire 40th ILM zoom reunion with Dennis Muren, Joe Johnston, Phil Rupert and Lorne Peterson:

 

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

Funny thought while watching ANH last night. In the scene when Ben and Luke came across the Sand Crawler. Ben is pointing out how it wasn't Sand People, it was the Empire.  

His line is something like "these blast points are too precise for Sand People"

I heard that line and thought of the fandom joke about Storm Troops have horrible aim.  I have nice chuckle over it 🤣

  • Like 3
  • Laugh 1

Share this post


Link to post

Even though I own the real original trilogy, I watched the new and (not) improved version on TV today.  I miss the Ewoks' YubNub song at the end.  

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post

From a few weeks ago. For "The Empire Strikes Back" 40th anniversary, the Russo Brothers and Avengers Endgame screenwriters Markus and McFreely ask Mark Hamill about his memories making the movie and talk about how it set the standard for sequels. Parts 1 and 2:

 

 

 

Edited by VCRTracking
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post

So, the next movies have release dates. December 2023, 5, 7. No word on what they'll be or who's directing them. Of the existing team, I want Rian Johnson to come back. Though I'll always be interested by someone new.

In other news, a Lando show? Please, no. Unless Glover is interested in playing the Lando we saw in the other movies, and not a live-action cartoon character. A little more serious, thanks. IMDB says that most of his work has been comedy, but surely he can do drama.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Was just going to bring that over. He's right, LOL those titles better match the movies 😁

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Eh, the titles are fine as is.  I'm not going to watch the video (because honestly. I find most fan reaction/analysis videos unwatchable) - but after reading an article detailing the changes, they feel like an even bigger stretch than the original order.  "The Phantom Menace" says so much about the story of episode 1 - from the illusory threat of the Trade Federation, to the invisible hand of Sidious guiding the events.  "Attack of the Clones" is a silly title - but episode 2 is a mostly silly movie.  And, the clones don't attack the Jedi in episode 3 - Palpatine does.  He gets his revenge on them by using the clones as weapons in his plot to subvert the Republic.

"A New Hope" is an arbitrary name - but that's also kind of the point.  The film that would become episode 4 doesn't need a subtitle.  It's just Star Wars.  And frankly, none of the other titles are worth changing - they accurately describe their respective films.  The empire strikes back in "The Empire Strikes Back."  A Jedi returns in "Return of the Jedi."  The Force awakens in "The Force Awakens."  "The Last Jedi" is about who will be the last of the Jedi.

"The Rise of Skywalker" is a disappointing name for a disappointing movie - but I don't think swapping titles with episode 1 is going to change that.  And honestly, in a better constructed story, I think the themes of Rey "rising" and choosing to carry on the lineage of Skywalker suggested by the title might have had more of an impact.  However, if we do want to change the name of the existing film, there are a couple of ideas from ep 9 that might've made better titles that "tRoS" - "The Final Order" is not just the name of the Sith regime/fleet, but also would refer to Palpatine's threat to the galaxy to submit, or die.  And, as silly as it was in the opening crawl, "The Dead Speak" actually might've been a decent subtitle - it's not just Palpatine talking, but Force Ghost Luke, and the voices of the Jedi.
 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...

Customize font-size