Season 3

[shron17]

3 hours ago, junienmomo said:

That was a perfect setup for Lorelai's dream in the first episode. She had no deep relationship with a guy, Christopher was off the table; she was pretty much down to her last resort. Her dream world produced Luke as her last resort. Of course, she never took action, because, well, ASP. As far as I can tell, Lorelai never even considered Luke, with the possible exception of fishing lessons.

The thing about Lorelai was she was always very passive with romance.  We never saw her ask anyone out or even  express interest in a guy until she knew he was interested in her (except for maybe Peyton Manning).  Remember when she was talking to Sookie, saying she was frustrated that she couldn't tell how she felt about Max until she knew how he felt about her?  And of course Luke wasn't going to openly show interest in her at this point unless something changed.

[junienmomo]

3 hours ago, shron17 said:

The thing about Lorelai was she was always very passive with romance.  We never saw her ask anyone out or even  express interest in a guy until she knew he was interested in her (except for maybe Peyton Manning).  Remember when she was talking to Sookie, saying she was frustrated that she couldn't tell how she felt about Max until she knew how he felt about her?  And of course Luke wasn't going to openly show interest in her at this point unless something changed.

LOL So being passive with romance makes Shel sort of right. She's funny not because she was a fat kid, but because she covered her romance passivity. 

Passive doesn't work so well for me in this case because we see her in season 1 rebuffing guys, and given her looks she would have to do that often working in the hotel business. 

I did view her passivity more as an expectation that guys approach her. She had a reputation for confidence. Even Christopher told the story about how she kissed him first before they were dating. It's harder to see when we meet her because of the no boys in the house rule. She also had. The confidence/pathological need for approval could be seen when she played hot and cold with Max, and when she stalked him.

Passivity works sorta. Confidence works sorta. I'm on the fence.

Luke's passivity doesn't work for me either. He was, like Lorelai, too good looking to sit around and pine for either Rachel or Lorelai, but we never see him dating. The only ones who flirt with him are Miss Patty and Babette. At least until season 5 when he suddenly acquires Buddy and Maisy, implying a whole social life outside of Stars Hollow. He also had a ton of confidence in other areas. This of course all changed when ASP needed him to be the best and hottest thing ever - a hot guy who follows Dr. Phil type advice and has suddenly been pining for the better part of a decade.

[junienmomo]

6 hours ago, FictionLover said:

They would throw us a bone now and then; the dance marathon and several times of Lorelai being jealous, but no more longoing looks.  But your theory at least makes "Luke can see her face" more sence. Do you think maybe ASP changed her mind about the pairing but was forced into it?

No, I think ASP could do arithmetic better than she could do romance. Same applies to Rory's virginity. 

ASP knew she stood a better chance of more contract years the longer she held off on the virginity and LL.  If she was self-aware, she might have even realized that her style and ability to write those things was not great. That would mean fulfilling the fans' wishes wouldn't necessarily improve ratings, which would lead again to a shorter contract.

Hence, we got one season of good plot spread out over two seasons and she got her contract renewal. I think she loved the girls and SH, but by season 3 she loved her money more. Season 3 was filled with placeholder moments. 

In hindsight, I see GG as a 4 1/2 season show. It could have been perfect that way.

[hippielamb]

22 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

I'm more mixed on this.  I do agree that Lorelai's intent was not to hurt Emily.  However, I do think Lorelai must have had an idea as to what would happen if she paid off the entire thing at once, particularly since things were already in a state of flux with Rory's imminent high school graduation.  I would have probably suggested to her that she pay the loan off in parts, to get Emily used to the idea that the loan was being paid back, and the FNDs would soon end.  This was as opposed to essentially dropping the check on her like a bomb at the dinner.  

As to setting an example for Rory, she's 18 by that point.  If after already seeing her mother on the edge of the financial abyss with the termites, I don't know if she really will be looking to Lorelai for financial guidance. 

The termite thing was beyond Lorelai's control but paying back the loan wasn't after she got the $75,000. I agree she could've handled paying them back with more grace. At her birthday dinner no less, when they are trying to do something nice for her. It's a pity because at this point of the show, Lorelai and Emily's relationship is at its most civil. I wish she considered how Emily would react but I also understand why Lorelai wanted to be free of the obligatory dinners. 

[FictionLover]

12 hours ago, junienmomo said:

No, I think ASP could do arithmetic better than she could do romance. Same applies to Rory's virginity. 

ASP knew she stood a better chance of more contract years the longer she held off on the virginity and LL.  If she was self-aware, she might have even realized that her style and ability to write those things was not great. That would mean fulfilling the fans' wishes wouldn't necessarily improve ratings, which would lead again to a shorter contract.

Hence, we got one season of good plot spread out over two seasons and she got her contract renewal. I think she loved the girls and SH, but by season 3 she loved her money more. Season 3 was filled with placeholder moments. 

In hindsight, I see GG as a 4 1/2 season show. It could have been perfect that way.

It would have been until 6.8 for me. I did like the Luke and Lorelai pairing even if it wasn't as romantic as many would have liked. But the college years Rory for me were awful; her story could have ended half way through season 4.

[junienmomo]

1 hour ago, FictionLover said:

It would have been until 6.8 for me. I did like the Luke and Lorelai pairing even if it wasn't as romantic as many would have liked. But the college years Rory for me were awful; her story could have ended half way through season 4.

My perfect series ends at 6.8 as well. I would just throw out a number of unnecessary episodes like Here Comes the Son, and strip a bunch of illogical crap scenes as well. I really loved the Luke and Lorelai of the first part of season 6 with the exception of her unwillingness to engage with Rory. 

[shron17]

14 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Passive doesn't work so well for me in this case because we see her in season 1 rebuffing guys, and given her looks she would have to do that often working in the hotel business. 

I did view her passivity more as an expectation that guys approach her. She had a reputation for confidence. Even Christopher told the story about how she kissed him first before they were dating. It's harder to see when we meet her because of the no boys in the house rule. She also had. The confidence/pathological need for approval could be seen when she played hot and cold with Max, and when she stalked him.

What I meant by being passive with romance is that except for the instance at the auction we never saw Lorelai realize she was attracted to someone and then act on it.  I'm sure she was used to having guys approach her but doubt she was never attracted to someone who didn't approach her first. Someone I know screamed "just ask him out!" at the TV when Luke failed to do it at the end of Double Date.  And when we see her sashay home after the near-kiss in TDDR there's no doubt she knows he's into her.  To me, this reflects insecurity and extreme fear of rejection rather than confidence and could have  been a factor in the reason why Lorelai put off confronting Luke in season 6 until "now or never" was the only answer she could accept.   

As for Christopher, first off, I don't think anyone's behavior at 14 is indicative of adult behavior.  Second, I would call that more daring than confident, and more sexual than romantic.  She'd known Chris since she was a small child but they had never kissed.  We don't even know for sure it was Lorelai's first kiss even though it was his.  According to Lorelai it was pretty typical of her behavior with boys around that age--sneaking out of her room to see a boy, sneaking a boy into her room, etc.   

Edited June 15, 2016 by shron17

[Smad]

4 hours ago, FictionLover said:

It would have been until 6.8 for me. I did like the Luke and Lorelai pairing even if it wasn't as romantic as many would have liked. But the college years Rory for me were awful; her story could have ended half way through season 4.

 

2 hours ago, junienmomo said:

My perfect series ends at 6.8 as well. I would just throw out a number of unnecessary episodes like Here Comes the Son, and strip a bunch of illogical crap scenes as well. I really loved the Luke and Lorelai of the first part of season 6 with the exception of her unwillingness to engage with Rory. 

I agree with you both. I usually stop watching at 6.08 myself. I wouldn't have missed Rory either because her college stories were boring with a side of aggravating. Watching her pant after a guy and then changing herself to be what he would want was just bad all around.

2 hours ago, shron17 said:

What I meant by being passive with romance is that except for the instance at the auction we never saw Lorelai realize she was attracted to someone and then act on it.  I'm sure she was used to having guys approach her but doubt she was never attracted to someone who didn't approach her first. Someone I know screamed "just ask him out!" at the TV when Luke failed to do it at the end of Double Date.  And when we see her sashay home after the near-kiss in TDDR there's no doubt she knows he's into her.  To me, this reflects insecurity and extreme fear of rejection rather than confidence and could have  been a factor in the reason why Lorelai put off confronting Luke in season 6 until "now or never" was the only answer she could accept.

Lorelai was always passive in terms of guys. The only time she actively persued someone was the guy she met at the auction. Every other guy always had to put the moves on her. And instead of actually being interested in a guy because she likes both looks and personality she seemed to respond to each individually because of different *triggers*. With Christopher it was the subconscious wish for nuclear family and probably hoping it would bury the hatched with her parents by getting it together with the father of her child. With Luke it was his love for Rory. With Digger it was to piss off her mother. With Max, well it had been a long time since she got some, so why not. With Alex it seemed to be the coffee or I don't even know. But all of these guys had to go after her and in some cases relentlessly. But not once did she want to be with someone just for who they were. IMO Lorelai due to her stunted growth, being a young mother and messy family drama had no idea what kind of guy she actually wanted. She would have benefitted from years of therapy to work through her crap to come to a healthy place where is ok with herself, knows who she is and what she wants. And then she could have engaged in romance. As it was Lorelai was incabable of having long lasting romantic relationships because she was never with a guy just because he was exactly the kind of person she wanted.

[Guest]

Happy Birthday, Baby is one of those frustrating episodes- everyone is wrong and everyone is right. Lorelai should have paid back the loan, but time and place? 

Keg!Max! is one of my least favorite episodes. But I do think Lorelai had great chemistry with Max. 

[Guest]

Wow. I forget how much I hate Lorekai in SGG. And then I hate Here comes the Son. Maybe that's why I like "Those Are Strings." It's just better by comparison.

[junienmomo]

Here Comes the Son

Opening - the exchange between mother and daughter went well and was funny, but the Luke
part after "I failed him" is abbreviated and awkward. It was like they were both standing
there saying lines as if they were alone on set.

Jess standing on the beach was interesting for about half the time he actually stood
there, and the beach music was appropriate. 

Emily seems tone-deaf to proper behavior when she insists Rory must always call her back
whenever she calls. Later with Miss Celine she gets even worse. Why in the world is she
trying on a long formal dress for an afternoon graduation ceremony? Emily is supposed to
know proper behavior, or so she wants Lorelai to think.

The grad night and other school stuff seems to be filler.

They've weirdly put Jimmy in a Luke's Diner situation. But it's not cute, Venice Beach has no charm, and Jimmy has nothing but a hot dog stand and a mouthy girlfriend. Ick. 

One redeeming moment in this rewatch of this episode:

Jess convincingly broke my heart when he basically begged to live with Jimmy for a while, and Jimmy found every excuse in the book to say no. MV's performance was great. I suspect MV could lead a show all by himself, but I have no clue what kind of character would make sense. 

I'd once promised myself to edit a copy of this to remove the pilot scenes and just enjoy the GG part, but now I'm not sure I will bother. 
 

[lulu1960]

Quote

Jess convincingly broke my heart when he basically begged to live with Jimmy for a while, and Jimmy found every excuse in the book to say no. MV's performance was great. I suspect MV could lead a show all by himself, but I have no clue what kind of character would make sense. 

Yes, his "I have nothing." was heartbreaking. On a side note, Milo will be in a new series this fall called This Is Us. He will play the husband of Mandy Moore's character.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

Jess standing on the beach was interesting for about half the time he actually stood
there, and the beach music was appropriate.

I thought it was a nice touch that Jess's introduction to Venice Beach (it was Venice right?) was shot and underlined with music in almost the same way that his introduction to Stars Hollow was - underscoring his whole "fish out of water" thing in both instances.

[junienmomo]

Those are Strings
Richard looked rather ill during the negotiation for Rory's loan. Puffy and weak. 
Rory handled the negotiation well, behaving nervously as would be expected for her age and maturity. 

Production values outside before the ceremony were bad. The focus was off in the long shots, but went back to normal during the closeups.

Lorelai enjoyed quite a bit of narcissism before the ceremony, with the valedictorian's mom bit and then her obsession about her parents giving Rory the loan just to get at Lorelai. 
Rory lied AGAIN! A white lie this time, telling her mom that she told her grandparents everything.

(side note - while browsing tumblr GG pages, someone referenced Rory's approximately 12th birthday, during which the kids were found stealing things from Taylor's refrigerator. This child has a LONG line of criminal behavior, maybe worse than Jess. Heehee)

"My mother never kept me from being whatever I wanted to be." LOL, including a criminal. 

I won't bother putting this on the Unpopular Opinions page, but Rory's speech left me cold. Never have cried, think the other characters' reactions were OTT.

Nitpick: Paris must have selected Yale before graduation. She's not known for not telling people stuff, so I don't know why she didn't say anything.

Luke was so clear that he didn't want a permanent relationship with Nicole, I think that Lorelai's insistence that he go should have been insufficient to change his mind. What was he thinking? One last booty call or a pity boink before he broke up with Nicole? His going also didn't jive with his 'don't get engaged' dream. Must have been the beginning of the season 4 degradation of Luke's character.

Oh! I'd forgotten about Jess' phone call. That may have been one of Bledel's best performances. Poor broken-hearted Jess.

[shron17]

9 hours ago, junienmomo said:

Luke was so clear that he didn't want a permanent relationship with Nicole, I think that Lorelai's insistence that he go should have been insufficient to change his mind. What was he thinking? One last booty call or a pity boink before he broke up with Nicole? His going also didn't jive with his 'don't get engaged' dream. Must have been the beginning of the season 4 degradation of Luke's character.

Lorelai told Luke he should go without worrying about what Nicole was reading into it so I don't think he decided to go and make a permanent commitment.  It was already planned and he did like Nicole, and maybe felt a little stupid for bringing it up with Lorelai only to get her seal of approval.  Since his dream was from his own subconscious without any indication from Lorelai herself, it probably made him feel more pathetic and more determined to continue a relationship with a woman who liked him..

[hippielamb]

Happy Birthday, Baby 

I love that Rory and apparently the whole town are planning a big party for Lorelai. Seeing townies is great and I like that Mallomar scene. It's disappointing that Emily and Lorelai are at odds again. They have been doing so well this season. 

Keg! Max!

It seems fitting that Jess isn't going to graduate. All season we have seen hints that he feels superior and doesn't think he has to attend school or do his assignments. I never hated him more than in this episode. 

Lorelai wanting to know how Max feels before she knows how she feels illustrates that she is a teenage girl when it comes to dating. I think Lorelai was using Max as a diversion. Lorelai has a lot going on when he pops up, and she expects a physical distraction from her chaotic life. 

Say Goodnight Gracie 

I liked Dean telling Rory off about the Jess situation. It must be very hard to see your ex prefer to be with a guy who doesn't treat her with the same respect that you did. The wedding is a crazy idea. 

I hate to agree with Jess about anything, but Luke interfering with Jimmy seeing Jess is not ok. Totally on Jess' side on this one.

Loved Lorelai singing and teasing Rory in the first scene. It always cracks me up. I also like the more emotional scene in the car. 

Here Comes the Son 

The first time I watched this, I rolled my eyes at the similarity of Sasha to Lorelai and how she talks to people. Jimmy seems pretty laid back considering his teenage son has just appeared on his doorstep. I like them both which was a surprise. I usually fast forward through these scenes to watch oh, you know, Gilmore girls. 

I love Lorelai giving Paris a hug. First time she has probably been hugged, and I like Lorelai's advice about college too. She's good at being a big sister type to Rory's friends. I love Lorelai telling Rory how proud she is. It's a sweet moment. :)

Those are Strings, Pinocchio
Rory is pretty supportive in this episode. She tries to be a friend to Dean even though she doesn't agree with him. And she gets financing from her grandparents so Lorelai can have her inn. Her speech is very sweet to both her mother and her grandparents. Fashionwise, I thought Lorelai looked great in her red dress.

[JayInChicago]

I'm rewatching at the speed of molasses. 

Swan Song

This is probably the nittiest nitpick ever, but, going upstairs from one's job every ten minutes to stop my teenage nephew from getting too intimate with my good friend's daughter sounds like the worst chore in the world.

Edited July 7, 2016 by JayInChicago
Haha "teen" minutes

[patchwork]

I'm nearing the end of season 3 and it's been a bit of a slog to get through, I remember being very bored by season 4 so I'm not sure how the rest of this re-watch is going to go. 

Rory/Jess were always more physical then Rory/Dean but I don't think Rory realised where they were realistically heading until Lorelai brought it up. I like to think that Rory went on birth control after confessing she did in fact have time to think about her, Jess and sex but considering Lorelai's infuriating "I have the good kid" a few episodes later I kind of doubt it.  

It's unbelievable that in such a close knit, nosy town no-one brought up Jess' never being at school or that he's not graduating, even if Jess somehow managed to prevent the Principle's office successfully contacting Luke town gossip should have glued him in. As a Jess/Rory fan season 3 sucked but I think hitting rock bottom, losing the girl he loved and having to beg his father for a place to stay made Jess grow up. It mostly happened off screen but still I loved it, successfully maturing didn't happen a lot in GG.

I will never not be annoyed by Lorelai/Christopher, the actors have great chemistry but I loathed how his awfulness as a father was overlooked in order for him to be a viable love interest for Lorelai and I just felt very sorry for Sherry at this point.

I could keep going but it really boils down to this season has a lot of moments I love, some I really hate but overall it wasn't fun to watch. 

[JayInChicago]

Happy Birthday Baby

i had remembered liking this one but some things stuck out. First Jackson, a large early middle age man whine-ily yelling at a small teen girl on the street is always gonna just be cringeworthy. He may be my least favorite character. They never really give him any good qualities except marrying Sookie.

then there is the loan repayment. I'm of about 72 minds about it. I know we've discussed it a lot and it was hashed out on the old site (I'm gonna check around for an archive of those posts actually), but, still. Dunno. Yes it was the literally right thing to do. I still think the timing was terrible and Lorelai's motive was questionable--then again, I wouldn't want such a large money obligation hanging over my head either. And honestly, by Friday night I am exhausted. I'd probably not be up for a formal dining experience every Friday night either. Emily never sees it as a problem, but Lorelai is young and single and might rather use some of her Friday nights for, you know, dating. (Or "dating" even, to quote season 1.) also you can't obligate someone into loving you. 

But the Friday night scenes are so integral, we knew there would be another complication to re-require them.

i feel for Rory in her trying to discuss it with Lorelai. It wasn't her business, exactly, but it's kind of weird they couldn't have discussed it before hand. Especially with an Ivy League tuition looming! 

This time I did notice that Lorelai says something like "I just want you to see the warm and fuzzy Emily and Richard." Rory has already been at odds with at least Emily by that point, a few times actually, and she knows Richard is an authoritarian at heart.  Rory knows she is beloved. But she is also not 5, Lorelai. She knows Meemaw and Peepaw aren't perfect.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Quote

But she is also not 5, Lorelai. She knows Meemaw and Peepaw aren't perfect.

Kinda reminds me of when Trix dies and Lorelai goes on and on how luck she was to have Rory as a granddaughter apropos of absolutely nothing. Isn't the dead person normally the one who gets undeserved compliments?

Edited July 27, 2016 by cuddlingcrowley

[shron17]

7 hours ago, JayInChicago said:

This time I did notice that Lorelai says something like "I just want you to see the warm and fuzzy Emily and Richard." Rory has already been at odds with at least Emily by that point, a few times actually, and she knows Richard is an authoritarian at heart.  Rory knows she is beloved. But she is also not 5, Lorelai. She knows Meemaw and Peepaw aren't perfect.

I thought Lorelai was trying to point out that while she didn't want her own relationship with her parents to contaminate Rory's feelings for her grandparents, Rory also needed to remember that Lorelai had her own history with them.  So that actions taken in the present might seem very unfair to Rory because she doesn't know all of the past history that led up to them.  I don't blame Lorelai at all for trying to protect the way Rory sees her grandparents as much as possible--she just wants her to have the kind of relationship in her life we all deserve to have with our grandparents (much like she tried to protect Rory's image of her father in the past).  It is interesting that after the experience of living with the grandparents, Rory had a very different opinion of Richard and Emily. 

[Lady Calypso]

So, it's taken me less than a week to watch the first two seasons, but I have a feeling after this season, the binge watching will slow down a bit. 

I do have my issues with Christopher/Lorelai, but they pertain to Rory's treatment. I think it's totally disappointing that Rory doesn't get that father in her life that she should. I've expressed my thoughts about Christopher not being more involved and Lorelai definitely treating him differently than he deserves, but it's not just her. Emily and Richard worship the man, even though he's been absent and a flake for 15 years. He never even bothered to try to grow up for his daughter. But now he's trying for this other woman and his new baby? Lorelai got to express her anger, but Rory doesn't get a lot of say in these types of situations, which really sucks. So Emily, Lorelai, and Richard all treat Christopher like some regular guy who's just on 'trips' so he never really gets called out or hated. It's why I feel bad for Rory, and understand why her love lives have been so unstable. She doesn't really have any good ones to compare it to. Lorelai protected her from any guy that she possibly dated. 

But again, Rory's now only had two boyfriends, one of them a longer relationship, so she's still learning and growing. I just didn't really like her thing with Jess while she was with Dean at the beginning of this season. I'm not into the jealousy storylines, personally, and it felt like they were stalling with Jess until he got to be with Rory, so he didn't have much of a story. I'm just going to say that I'm happy that Alexis and Milo had chemistry, because their new romance scenes after Dean broke up with Rory were so awkward and sweet (I think one of my favourite Jess/Rory scenes is the scene of them standing in Jess and Luke's apartment, just about to kiss for the first time as a couple before Luke barges in). It made me temporarily forget that Rory was just with Dean and she was being an uber bitch for the first few episodes, where I felt sorry for Dean to have to watch all the tension between Jess and Rory. 

Also, Luke's initial enthusiasm at Jess/Rory, then his absolute panic and descent into parenthood made me laugh really hard.

I will say that Jess was not a good boyfriend to Rory. I'm not really sure why they went down that path with him, but they definitely made their break up justified. But Jess' exit from the season was definitely open ended. 

Also, how come Luke didn't know about Jess failing out of school? Last season, the principal called Luke in personally to discuss it. And now it's his senior year and he fails to try to find a way to contact Luke? Sure, Jess could have intercepted letters and calls, but Star Hollow is a small town. Even if the principal is commuting from elsewhere, everyone knows who Luke is. It just felt unrealistic in a small town like that. I guess the high school is just that awful. Luke also didn't go in to the school at all to figure it out. He just asked Jess, he lied, and then Luke complained but did nothing. It made Luke kicking Jess out hard, but also justified. 

I did feel bad for Dean, but I do think it was ill timed to explode and break up with Rory at the dance competition. I know it was 5am and they were all cranky, but I can imagine that Rory would be stunned and upset. I was glad that Rory went to see Dean the next episode, after officially getting together with Jess. And they did maintain a friendship afterward, even with Dean's engagement to Lindsay. It does feel awfully fast for Dean to already be rushing into a marriage. I presume the two started dating around December/January. 

I have no good words about the whole Francie thing. Same with anything Sherry. I like Kirk in small doses, but I love Taylor in any amount of doses. They should have upped Taylor's actor to a regular instead of Kirk's. 

Luke/Lorelai definitely lost its charm this season. I think it's because, for me, they never got over the huge fight of last season, as Lorelai didn't really apologize. Seeing as she never believed that she was in the wrong, I can see if Luke thought her written apology was BS. They tried to maintain a friendship, and it worked, but it definitely was not the same. 

I will say, Lane and her new boyfriend Dave were cute, and not just because of Adam Brody. 

Rory going to Yale was only half surprising to me. As much as I hated Richard's approach to getting Rory to apply to Yale, I totally agree that she needs more than one option. Lorelai, for some reason, had blinders on Harvard for years. She just assumed that her daughter would get in and that would be that, without considering that it wouldn't hurt applying to some other schools. I don't know why she never looked. I don't know, actually, why she didn't research everything about Harvard over the years, because she seemed totally clueless about the application process. 

There were some ok episodes, but the whole season was kind of blah.

I'll add in any additional thoughts later.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Rory going to Yale was only half surprising to me. As much as I hated Richard's approach to getting Rory to apply to Yale, I totally agree that she needs more than one option. Lorelai, for some reason, had blinders on Harvard for years. She just assumed that her daughter would get in and that would be that, without considering that it wouldn't hurt applying to some other schools. I don't know why she never looked. I don't know, actually, why she didn't research everything about Harvard over the years, because she seemed totally clueless about the application process. 

There were some ok episodes, but the whole season was kind of blah.

I'll add in any additional thoughts later.

This part drives me crazy. It really makes Lorelai look really stupid. She's spent 18 years wanting to send her daughter to Harvard but does zero work for it. She doesn't find out Harvard requirements, Rory flips out over not doing enough extracurricular activities Lorelai should have already known that and been going over them with Rory. She should know that there's more to getting into Harvard then just going into Chilton she grew up surrounded by people where all kids went to a Ivy League and she went to her own fancy school no she didn't go to college but it would have been all she heard about. Chilton would have sent out all kinds of info too. The biggest one of course is her being surprised at the idea Rory would need back up schools. What parent who really wants to send her daughter to college doesn't know her daughter needs to apply to different colleges? Even parents who never went to college themselves would know that. Kids get rejected from their dream schools all the time.

They really could have had an interesting storyline where after years of dreaming of Harvard, Rory and Lorelai start considering other colleges. Looking at Yale, Princeton, or Columbia which has a Graduate school of journalism. Rory could have had fun thinking about going to Columbia, living in NYC, and interning at different newspapers. Or Princeton and wonder what it would be like to live in New Jersey. Maybe did her pro con list like she did when she was considering that newspaper job in Providence.

[RachelKM]

16 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

This part drives me crazy. It really makes Lorelai look really stupid. She's spent 18 years wanting to send her daughter to Harvard but does zero work for it. She doesn't find out Harvard requirements, Rory flips out over not doing enough extracurricular activities Lorelai should have already known that and been going over them with Rory. She should know that there's more to getting into Harvard then just going into Chilton she grew up surrounded by people where all kids went to a Ivy League and she went to her own fancy school no she didn't go to college but it would have been all she heard about. Chilton would have sent out all kinds of info too. The biggest one of course is her being surprised at the idea Rory would need back up schools. What parent who really wants to send her daughter to college doesn't know her daughter needs to apply to different colleges? Even parents who never went to college themselves would know that. Kids get rejected from their dream schools all the time.

They really could have had an interesting storyline where after years of dreaming of Harvard, Rory and Lorelai start considering other colleges. Looking at Yale, Princeton, or Columbia which has a Graduate school of journalism. Rory could have had fun thinking about going to Columbia, living in NYC, and interning at different newspapers. Or Princeton and wonder what it would be like to live in New Jersey. Maybe did her pro con list like she did when she was considering that newspaper job in Providence.

I feel this actually dovetails into something I've been thinking about while watching some of the original seasons. I kind of suspected as of the application stuff, but became convinced later, that Lorelai's obsession with Harvard which was established as her own teenaged ambition which she passed on to Rory was very much part of Lorelai's general rebellion against all things her parent's loved. 

I don't mean to suggest that wanting her daughter to go to Harvard was a terrible thing or that "Harvard" doesn't frequently serve for many people as the symbol of Ivy League.  But for Lorelai, Ivy League wouldn't have been something mythical in her world growing up, but the typical.  So it is unlikely that, for her, Harvard would be a concept of Ivy League generally rather than the school specifically. It was clear that Richard and Emily were active college boosters for Yale and loved Yale and its traditions.  It is inconceivable that Lorelai's fixation with Harvard, Yale's biggest traditional rival, was not intentionally in opposition to Yale.  

Harvard was a part of her 16 year old self's avid desire to differentiate herself from her parents.  And I think it lived there in her head as a fantasy while raising Rory, but didn't take on a more concrete reality until Rory was getting to the point of applying. Yes, her erstwhile upwardly mobile self understood that a prep academy was an extremely helpful step, but not really anything else that wasn't part of 1980's cliche vision of Ivy League education wherein you were wealthy and went to an academy and voila, you're in. At 16, it is unlikely she would have given things like padding your HS resume for college application a thought.  And really, as a legacy from a Yale booster family, she may not have needed it, at least for Yale and possibly not for Harvard.  I don't recall that it was as much of a thing to put Habitat for Humanity or brokered world peace on your application back then.  Could be wrong on that last bit.

Edited September 2, 2016 by RachelKM

[Taryn74]

46 minutes ago, RachelKM said:

It was clear that Richard and Emily were active college boosters for Yale and loved Yale and its traditions.  It is inconceivable that Lorelai's fixation with Harvard, Yale's biggest traditional rival, was not intentionally in opposition to Yale.  

And it was so ingrained in her that even after her daughter started attending Yale, Lorelai wore crimson (Harvard colors) to the Harvard/Yale football game and had to be given a coat to cover it up.  Good lord.

[andromeda331]

14 hours ago, Taryn74 said:

And it was so ingrained in her that even after her daughter started attending Yale, Lorelai wore crimson (Harvard colors) to the Harvard/Yale football game and had to be given a coat to cover it up.  Good lord.

Considering she couldn't remember she put underwear on that day and was confused with Emily pointed out her shirt, Lorelai didn't plan to wear Harvard colors. If it was plan Lorelai would know doubt either worn a Harvard shirt, been covered head to toe in crimson or spend the entire time making joking that Yale was going to lose.

[cuddlingcrowley]

Quote

They really could have had an interesting storyline where after years of dreaming of Harvard, Rory and Lorelai start considering other colleges. Looking at Yale, Princeton, or Columbia which has a Graduate school of journalism. Rory could have had fun thinking about going to Columbia, living in NYC, and interning at different newspapers. Or Princeton and wonder what it would be like to live in New Jersey. Maybe did her pro con list like she did when she was considering that newspaper job in Providence.

Now that you mentioned it, doesn't Columbia seem like such a better fit for Rory? I never understood how she never seriously considered going to Journalism school. Rory only mentioned the possibility once and it was in a very mornful way. Surely that would have seemed like the obvious next step? I don't live in the US so I'm probably talking out of my ass.

[scarynikki12]

I don't think it was intentional but Rory only applying to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton made it seem (to me) that she was more interested in the status of her school rather than the program itself. Now, none of those schools was going to fail Rory's academic goals but there are better journalism schools than all three. If they'd made it clear that Rory wanted the prestigious undergrad degree as a way to put her ahead of the game when she pursued a graduate degree in journalism (isn't Columbia's program on the graduate level?) then that would make sense in general and for Super Planner Rory. 

[andromeda331]

30 minutes ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

Now that you mentioned it, doesn't Columbia seem like such a better fit for Rory? I never understood how she never seriously considered going to Journalism school. Rory only mentioned the possibility once and it was in a very mornful way. Surely that would have seemed like the obvious next step? I don't live in the US so I'm probably talking out of my ass.

It really does, doesn't it? Rory's always talking about working the New York Times and wanted the Reston Fellowship which to be an intern at the New York Times. Why not apply to Columbia then? She'd be in NYC where she could try to intern there or any of the other many newspapers and Columbia does have the Graduate School of Journalism. 

[andromeda331]

1 minute ago, scarynikki12 said:

I don't think it was intentional but Rory only applying to Harvard, Yale, and Princeton made it seem (to me) that she was more interested in the status of her school rather than the program itself. Now, none of those schools was going to fail Rory's academic goals but there are better journalism schools than all three. If they'd made it clear that Rory wanted the prestigious undergrad degree as a way to put her ahead of the game when she pursued a graduate degree in journalism (isn't Columbia's program on the graduate level?) then that would make sense in general and for Super Planner Rory. 

It is on the graduate level. But your right about the status. Why else would Rory never considers any of school with an actual journalism program? That's her dream and something she's been talking about forever. But not only does she not consider it. Look at what happens when she gets into Yale. She joins the newspaper and...that's it. Its a great start but she never considers trying to intern anywhere, Doyle's made remarks about trying to do the same thing and even depressed at getting turned down by I think Time magazine? But he's worried that'll effect his career. Rory doesn't seem to have any worry or do anything to get into her career. It really doesn't seem to ever occur to Rory that she might have to do something to get notice or just get her foot in the door. 

[Lady Calypso]

2 minutes ago, andromeda331 said:

It really does, doesn't it? Rory's always talking about working the New York Times and wanted the Reston Fellowship which to be an intern at the New York Times. Why not apply to Columbia then? She'd be in NYC where she could try to intern there or any of the other many newspapers and Columbia does have the Graduate School of Journalism. 

I agree. Since Rory wanted to be a journalist from the beginning, Yale, Princeton, or Harvard didn't seem like the right fits, especially if she wanted an excellent school to achieve her dreams. She never even considered any other schools until her senior year, or at least until Chilton most likely began prepping her for those types of schools. Sure, Yale and Harvard have English programs, but for an Ivy League school, those seem pretty generic. 

But, Yale's 22.8 miles from Stars Hollow so it's really just because of plot reasons. Rory could come home easier if she lived closer. But we also know that she can get to New York easily, as she's taken a bus there before. It would just be a longer bus ride, or even a longer train ride. And then there wouldn't be those Friday night dinners each week. Hence, Yale. I think that's also why Harvard suddenly became out of the question too. It's too far for Rory to be able to conveniently come home whenever she wants. 

But how interesting would it have been if Rory went against what her family and what Chilton would have wanted? What if there was a plot this season that replaced the stupid Francie one where Rory discovered actual journalism programs that weren't part of an Ivy League school? Imagine a scene where Rory sits down her family and tells them that she won't be attending Harvard or Yale, but somewhere like Columbia or Boston University. Imagine the freaking out between Richard, Emily, and Lorelai. 

[JaggedLilPill]

I guess Rory figured the prestige of an Ivy League school would hold more water later on vs a school that specialized in journalism? I mean, I don't know her line of thinking, or rather what ASP's line of thinking for Rory was, but it did seem a little OOC for the list maker Rory to not look at other schools. Like Emerson, which I think is listed as the top journalism school. I did a quick google search and Yale doesn't have a specific journalism program. Rather it's under English. Whereas NYU has its own journalism institute. Even Syracuse could have been an option, especially for someone wanting to do broadcast journalism. 

Edited September 2, 2016 by JaggedLilPill

[cuddlingcrowley]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

But how interesting would it have been if Rory went against what her family and what Chilton would have wanted? What if there was a plot this season that replaced the stupid Francie one where Rory discovered actual journalism programs that weren't part of an Ivy League school? Imagine a scene where Rory sits down her family and tells them that she won't be attending Harvard or Yale, but somewhere like Columbia or Boston University. Imagine the freaking out between Richard, Emily, and Lorelai. 

Since we're on this subject, it never felt completely beliavable to me that Emily and Richard would be so supportive Rory wanting to be a journalist. IMO, they're the kind of people who would seriously push for very traditional professions such as in Law, Medicine, Business or Engineering and nothing else. Surely, wanting to be a journalist would have seem completely impractical and downright preposterous. 

[andromeda331]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree. Since Rory wanted to be a journalist from the beginning, Yale, Princeton, or Harvard didn't seem like the right fits, especially if she wanted an excellent school to achieve her dreams. She never even considered any other schools until her senior year, or at least until Chilton most likely began prepping her for those types of schools. Sure, Yale and Harvard have English programs, but for an Ivy League school, those seem pretty generic. 

But, Yale's 22.8 miles from Stars Hollow so it's really just because of plot reasons. Rory could come home easier if she lived closer. But we also know that she can get to New York easily, as she's taken a bus there before. It would just be a longer bus ride, or even a longer train ride. And then there wouldn't be those Friday night dinners each week. Hence, Yale. I think that's also why Harvard suddenly became out of the question too. It's too far for Rory to be able to conveniently come home whenever she wants. 

But how interesting would it have been if Rory went against what her family and what Chilton would have wanted? What if there was a plot this season that replaced the stupid Francie one where Rory discovered actual journalism programs that weren't part of an Ivy League school? Imagine a scene where Rory sits down her family and tells them that she won't be attending Harvard or Yale, but somewhere like Columbia or Boston University. Imagine the freaking out between Richard, Emily, and Lorelai. 

That really could have been interesting! Rory could have researched Harvard or Yale and realized they didn't offer a journalism program, or maybe one of her teachers or guidance counselor (do they have those at fancy schools?) could have told her that neither college really offers that and tells her about colleges that. Which are the best colleges for journalism? It could have been interesting to have Rory realize the college she's always dreamed of might not be the right place for her. And she start searching and considering other colleges. The reactions from all three Gilmores would be awesome. Lorelai loves to think she's the cool parent but if Rory considered not going to Harvard or Yale but a different school with a better journalism program would Lorelai be okay with that?

[andromeda331]

11 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

I guess Rory figured the prestige of an Ivy League school would hold more water later on vs a school that specialized in journalism? I mean, I don't know her line of thinking, or rather what ASP's line of thinking for Rory was, but it did seem a little OOC for the list maker Rory to not look at other schools. Like Emerson, which I think is listed as the top journalism school. I did a quick google search and Yale doesn't have a specific journalism program. Rather it's under English. Whereas NYU has its own journalism institute. Even Syracuse could have been an option, especially for someone wanting to do broadcast journalism. 

Northwestern does too. And I just looked up Christiane Amanpour she went to University of Rhode Island.

[JaggedLilPill]

1 minute ago, andromeda331 said:

Northwestern does too. And I just looked up Christiane Amanpour she went to University of Rhode Island.

Oh interesting about Christiane Amanpour! I didn't know that. Yeah, I knew about Northwestern. It did seem like Rory wanted to stay relatively close to Connecticut so I could see her not going for Northwestern. But Rhode Island, Boston, New York, etc, are all viable options and odd that the show never had her consider those. 

[andromeda331]

25 minutes ago, cuddlingcrowley said:

Since we're on this subject, it never felt completely beliavable to me that Emily and Richard would be so supportive Rory wanting to be a journalist. IMO, they're the kind of people who would seriously push for very traditional professions such as in Law, Medicine, Business or Engineering and nothing else. Surely, wanting to be a journalist would have seem completely impractical and downright preposterous. 

That's a good point. Richard tried to push Rory to Yale but never really brought up another kind of job. Look at how they flipped out to arrange the party to meet rich boys when they found out Rory was dating Dean again and how thrilled they were over her dating Logan. But nothing about her career? Not even when Rory drops out of Yale he doesn't really push or suggest another kind of job except that doesn't want her to do the stuff Emily does. When Emily asks him what's wrong with Emily life all Richard says is Rory has more to do or to be but doesn't say anything about a career.  It really doesn't seem in character for them not to have an opinion on that matter or a career they'd prefer.

[scarynikki12]

If Chilton were real, not only would it have guidance counselors but it would also have college specific counselors. As I've posted before, I went to a Chilton type school (no uniforms though-yay self expression!) and we had a whole department devoted to college prep. They scheduled Q&A sessions for us starting junior year, we met with the counselor individually to talk about what we wanted from our school and they would give us printouts of our safeties, likelies, and long shots. And they worked to make sure we got most, if not all, of what we wanted. All I wanted was warm climate and proximity to California, as I didn't have a clue as to a major, and I got it. My brother wanted a Florida school with a strong poli sci program and he got it. Chilton would have had a similar program and Rory looks stupid for not taking advantage of it. 

[TwirlyGirly]

On 9/2/2016 at 6:18 PM, andromeda331 said:

Northwestern does too. And I just looked up Christiane Amanpour she went to University of Rhode Island.

Well YAY for Christiane Amanpour and URI (I'm currently a Rhode Islander).

I also grew up in Woodbridge, CT and graduated from HS there. Yes, THAT Woodbridge! (And most of what is mentioned about Woodbridge in the show simply isn't true).

[clack]

While attending URI, Christiane Amanpour got a non-paying job at Brown's radio station (Brown is on the other side of the state from URI), got another part time job ( graphics department) at the local NBC TV affiliate, found out where JFK Jr (a Brown student) was living and connived to rent an apartment in the same building and to ultimately befriend him, and finally, after graduation, got hired by CNN as CNN was just starting out.

And that's why I roll my eyes at Rory's ambition to be the next Amanpour. Rory has no where near the manipulative drive to make it as a on-air TV correspondent.

Rory is a fantasist with completely unrealistic career goals.

Edited September 10, 2016 by clack

[Smad]

8 hours ago, clack said:

And that's why I roll my eyes at Rory's ambition to be the next Amanpour. Rory has no where near the manipulative drive to make it as a on-air TV correspondent.

Rory is a fantasist with completely unrealistic career goals.

It has never made sense to me either. Now there are many types of journalism. But the C.A. kind would never be possible for someone with Rory's personality. Maybe writing about historical buildings or whatever would be the kind Rory could do. But a reporter/journalist that has to interact with people? Excuse me while I'm rolling on the floor laughing.

Edited September 11, 2016 by Smad

[andromeda331]

19 hours ago, clack said:

While attending URI, Christiane Amanpour got a non-paying job at Brown's radio station (Brown is on the other side of the state from URI), got another part time job ( graphics department) at the local NBC TV affiliate, found out where JFK Jr (a Brown student) was living and connived to rent an apartment in the same building and to ultimately befriend him, and finally, after graduation, got hired by CNN as CNN was just starting out.

And that's why I roll my eyes at Rory's ambition to be the next Amanpour. Rory has no where near the manipulative drive to make it as a on-air TV correspondent.

Rory is a fantasist with completely unrealistic career goals.

It was fine with her having the dream growing up and maybe through Chilton. But once she got into college to still have that dream? That was the time for her to realize she didn't have it to be a journalist like Christiane Amanpour and to either start looking at other fields of journalism or maybe come up with new career dream. Look at her reaction in Die Jerk, when Doyle doesn't like her articles. She asks if she did something wrong or if its hazing. Doyle tells her that it just wasn't any good. If she can't handle hearing it from Doyle was she really going to be able to handle hearing it from the Times or any other newspaper who doesn't have the time to coddle her?  Or her reaction to the ballerina. Why is she surprised the ballerina was upset? Does she really think that no other journalist ever ticks off people who read their articles? Or the person featured in it? Look at the comments people leave for articles online. Many of the comments are harsher then the ballerina was. She doesn't look for internships or anything. She mentions once to Lorelai about what other kids did during their summer break Lorelai reminds her that she was behind in Chilton and she got caught up. Except...Rory didn't do anything. Even look at her article on the Life and Death Bridgade she does a little research and then threatened to follow Logan. Speaking of Logan. Thank goodness she met him so she could get an internship with his daddy, or meet that person she did a couple articles for later. If she wants to be rough journalist I want to see her learning to be one. Learning to ask the tough questions. To scoop out stories on her own. To really investigate. Of course then we have Mitchum tell her, she doesn't have it. We're suppose to think he's a meanie.   Does she really think she could handle a warzone? Or interviewing a rape victim? Victims of a hurricane or fire? That campaign trail she ended up on, that she was going to be able to be heard or fight her way through the millions of other reporters trying to interview Obama? 

Edited September 11, 2016 by andromeda331

[Spartan Girl]

How Christopher handled the Sherry situation pretty much validated why I despise him. First of all, if you are falling out of love with a person, be a little more mindful of using birth control. Just sayin'.

Also nobody FORCED him to automatically marry Sherry just because she was pregnant. It was possible for him to be a part of the baby's life and continue being in a relationship with Lorelai. Then again, that was what an adult would do and not an immature, petulant Nice Guy.

He made his choice. So he had no right to be upset at Lorelei -- and Rory -- for icing him out.

[Enigma X]

So, I am on season 3 episode 6. My new takeaways are that the Gilmore Girls don't like when they don't get their way.

Rory being upset with Jess for not waiting for her while she was in D.C. reminded me of her mother. Christopher is proving to be the shit that I thought he was.

I see Luke's future, and I don't like it.

So far I am really happy to see familiar faces from shows or in general that I watched before this one. (Jess: Milo Ventimiglia, Zach: Todd Lowe, Sookie: Melissa McCarthy).

[Enigma X]

I finally made it through season 3. The first half dragged a lot for me. I liked the second half a lot better.

Although I did not spoil myself, I got the feeling that Rory would end up in Yale. Luke has been fleshed out nicely. Do we ever see Dean's parents? Still not a Dean fan though. So, the whole town chips in on Lorelai's birthday celebration? This town really loves the Gilmore Girls way more than any of the other residents. Kirk and Taylor have also been fleshed out nicely.

[FrumiusManxome]

On 12/2/2016 at 1:53 PM, Enigma X said:

So, I am on season 3 episode 6. My new takeaways are that the Gilmore Girls don't like when they don't get their way.

Rory being upset with Jess for not waiting for her while she was in D.C. reminded me of her mother. Christopher is proving to be the shit that I thought he was.

I see Luke's future, and I don't like it.

So far I am really happy to see familiar faces from shows or in general that I watched before this one. (Jess: Milo Ventimiglia, Zach: Todd Lowe, Sookie: Melissa McCarthy).

Something that always annoys me is how long the Rory/Dean/Jess love triangle lasts. There was plenty of evidence already that Rory was emotionally cheating and stringing Dean along. I did not need 7 (I think) episodes more of her wishy washy nonsense. Especially when she had the nerve to attempt to blame him for getting a girlfriend when she didn't *do* anything to rectify the situation. She didn't make a commitment to him, hell she didn't talk to him at all for the entire summer, and she was still dating Dean. Yet, Jess is the dick who somehow tricked her into thinking he cared about her? Yeah, Rory 'cuz that makes sense.

Jess had every reason to move on. I don't approve of using Shane to do it like he did because he wasn't honest with her (or genuinely interested), but there's nothing wrong with trying to date other people to get over someone who clearly is not interested so long as you aren't leading them on. 

1 or 2 episodes is fine. I'll even allow 3. Pick up where we left off, Rory finally goes for it and some residual fall out for that next ep. But there was way too much time wasted on more 'chase' scenes. And I was left even more annoyed with Rory since the ball was always in her court and she should definitely have been aware of her own feelings by now.

This whole Rory arc was hard for me.

Edited December 15, 2016 by FrumiusManxome

[Enigma X]

2 minutes ago, FrumiusManxome said:

Something that always annoys me is how long the Rory/Dean/Jess love triangle lasts. There was plenty of evidence already that Rory was emotionally cheating and stringing Dean along. I did not need 7 (I think) episodes more of her wishy washy nonsense. Especially when she had the nerve to attempt to blame him for getting a girlfriend when she didn't *do* anything to rectify the situation. She didn't make a commitment to him, hell she didn't talk to him at all for the entire summer, and she was still dating Dean. Yet, Jess is the dick who somehow tricked her into thinking he cared about her? Yeah, Rory 'cuz that makes sense.

Jess had every reason to move on. I don't approve of using Shane to do it like he did because he wasn't honest with her (or genuinely interested), but there's nothing wrong with trying to date other people to get over someone who clearly is not interested so long as you aren't leading them on. 

1 or 2 episodes is fine. I'll even allow 3. Pick up where we left off, Rory finally goes for it and some residual fall out for that next ep. But there was way too much time wasted on more 'chase' scenes. And I was left even more annoyed with Rory since the ball was always in her court and she should definitely have been aware of her own feelings by now.

This whole Rory arc was hard for me.

YES! That whole blaming Jess thing was eerily familiar to Lorelai blaming Christopher for her having problems in her relationships (specifically not marrying Max) when Christopher announced he was marrying whats-her-name. I know I can't be the first viewer to think that Rory and Lorelai have an air of entitlement about them without realizing it. I wonder if the writers purposely wrote them this way.

I agree that Jess shouldn't have used Shane though.

[Winter Rose]

While I also wish the triangle didn't last as long as it did, more so the weird quasi-attempted reversal of it in the second half of the season, the dance marathon is my favorite episode of the show. So I guess then it would've been ideal if that episode had happened just a little earlier. But I agree about Rory being frustrating. In trying not to be the bad guy and actually break up with Dean, it would've been kinder to both Dean and Jess had she just done so. Although I think Dean might've been better off confronting her about it sooner too because he saw it, I'd say since The Bracebridge Dinner, that she was falling for Jess.

I realize I'm making assumptions in regards to Shane, since we never got her POV and she was never meant to be anything more than a temporary love interest, but at least from Jess saying that she treated him like dirt too, it sounded like they were both in agreement of what they had together. I'm not trying to condone using people, I'm just saying I didn't get the impression he was really leading her on.

[FrumiusManxome]

4 hours ago, Winter Rose said:

While I also wish the triangle didn't last as long as it did, more so the weird quasi-attempted reversal of it in the second half of the season, the dance marathon is my favorite episode of the show. So I guess then it would've been ideal if that episode had happened just a little earlier. But I agree about Rory being frustrating. In trying not to be the bad guy and actually break up with Dean, it would've been kinder to both Dean and Jess had she just done so. Although I think Dean might've been better off confronting her about it sooner too because he saw it, I'd say since The Bracebridge Dinner, that she was falling for Jess.

I realize I'm making assumptions in regards to Shane, since we never got her POV and she was never meant to be anything more than a temporary love interest, but at least from Jess saying that she treated him like dirt too, it sounded like they were both in agreement of what they had together. I'm not trying to condone using people, I'm just saying I didn't get the impression he was really leading her on.

I love the Dance Marathon too. And I think Rory at that point deserves a little humiliation in being dumped so I'm glad Dean ended up dumping her instead of her eventually (hopefully) FINALLY dumping him at some point.  

Dean should have dumped her long ago though. It starts making less sense the longer the whole thing is drawn out. I don't care that Rory is passive in general, she blatantly is treating two boys like crap.

And what bothers me most is that no one calls her out on it. Lorelai puts her two cents in, but this was one of those things that I think required a Mom instead of a friend. Obviously, Lorelai can't make her do what's right, but I really wanted/needed a more serious conversation about it. Especially since this trait of hers goes unchecked the entire series  (that's a different conversation though). 

Then there's Dean; who we *see* acknowledge a couple times that Rory is into Jess. Even using puppy/first love as an excuse, I just cannot believe a teenager as quick tempered and self assured as Dean to just leave it for so long. 

And Jess. Jess was not totally innocent as I know part of his interest in Rory was just to stir up trouble, but he still didn't deserve to be strung along since Rory was entertaining his pursuit. 

And really this is all a long winded way of saying I hate the Rory Gilmore effect. That both of these very different boys would be so head over heels for her that they would forgo all their self respect is ridiculous. I was willing to let it go for awhile, but by the start of season 3 I wanted it to be over. It was pretty obvious that Rory would end up with Jess so why couldn't we have just got to it already and actually got to see some of their dates or sweet couple moments?

We not only have to suffer through all of this, but then we don't even get to see Jess/Rory really date. 

In regards to Shane, I also don't really think she and Jess were serious. I'm just saying in general, it's crummy of Jess to use Shane since it's possible that she actually likes or could grow to like him. Like Jess seemed pretty certain he wouldn't fall for her (I'm going to assume that's true), so he was using Shane in the sense that he just wanted to make sure he had a GF. Without Shane knowing this (again I'm assuming) he was 'leading her on' since she might really like him despite their 'arrangement'. 

[Ziz]

Rewatching and I realize how terrible a public speaker Rory really is. Why do they keep shoving it down our throat that she's this amazing winner of the C-SPAN/debate/Vice President/Valedictorian? She literally stands and stares at her page, reading completely monotone.