S05.E02: Episode 2

[Tara Ariano]

Nurse Crane meets a new friend who promises great adventure, but hides a surprising secret.

[Primetimer]

Just in case you haven't gotten in enough internet fights, lately, here's one about 'the right way' for women to feed babies.

Read the story

[Hero]

This show always makes me cry.

[Blackie]

There was so much in this episode and the scenes were happening so fast, it is very frustrating to think that we are not seeing everything.  Now I have to dry my eyes (allergies I guess ) and read the recap to find out what scenes were cut out for PBS.

[LittleIggy]

I love Paul Copely! Too bad his character is stuck in such a difficult position.

[Blackie]

I kept thinking....but Mrs Patmore?????

[Kohola3]

There really needs to be a hanky alert posted at the start of these episodes!  I run out of Kleenex and don't want to walk away from the TV long enough to get more.

I was delighted to Mr. Mason (my favorite character in Downton Abbey) reincarnated in Mr. Smith.   Poor dear man, what a difficult life it is to live with someone with dementia. I am so happy that Nurse Crane showed up at the dance.  They both deserve affection and companionship although the ethics  of the time might make it difficult for them to be seen together in public.

 

Watching Sr. Evangelina walk away was heartbreaking as well.  She’s such a strong woman, it was have been a blow to realize that her opinions were taken so seriously as to cause harm to a child.

 

What can one say about the story of the young couple?  Just thinking of it has me blubbering.  On a practical note, the make up team did a great job on the dying husband.

 

And yet, despite the tears I had to laugh aloud at a couple of Sister MJ’s zingers.  She’s replacing the Dowager from DA with her cool quips.

[whatsatool]

Wow this is an awesome show.

[AuntiePam]

This show always makes me cry.

 

Four times for me this week -- I think that's a record. 

 

So many changes in the last 50+ years.  Breastfeeding and formula -- there are still disagreements -- feeding in public, formula overuse in third world countries.

 

Leukemia is no longer a death sentence, but the mortality rate is still too high.

[howiveaddict]

What a great episode.  Did not see the leukemia diagnosis coming.  So sad to think there was nothing that could be done for him. He was so diaphoretic that he must have had massive sepsis along with low blood cell counts.   Luckily times have changed.  Reminds me of a leukemia patient we had, on my unit,  who's daughter was expecting.  After the baby was born, she was allowed to go on pass to meet her grand daughter.  Unfortunatly she coded  the next day and died. Had had a stroke.   

I saw nothing wrong with Phyllis dating a man who's wife has dementia.  In fact, my grandmother did the very same thing.  Al's wife had been in a nursing home for years.  When my grandma's husband died, ( who was also Al's best friend) , it was natural they both get together. Of course, I called grandma the black widow because she outlived 3 men including him.

[Straycat80]

Awesome episode! I cried three times. Don't be gone too long Sister Evangeline.

[GaT]

What a great episode, this is why I watch this show. As soon as Patsy walked into the room when Nurse Crane was already there, I knew what was going to happen, I'm so glad it sort of worked out for them. 

 

Sister Evangelina! She's coming back, right?

 

That poor woman with her dying husband, castor oil & enemas to induce labor? yikes.

[proserpina65]

Damn it, I'm never going to get through an episode of this show without crying, am I?

 

I was so mad at Sister E bullying that poor girl into continuing to try and breastfeed when it was clearly not working, and then Sister MC went and made her see the consequences of being so inflexible and crap, I had all kinds of dust in my eyes.

 

And it may be an unpopular opinion, but I like Tom with Barbara.  He and Trixie were never a good fit, and the connection with Barbara seems much more natural to me.

Edited April 11, 2016 by proserpina65

[attica]

I made it to the :43 mark (i.e. MJ and E's 'pray for me' scene) before tissues were needed. That might be a new record for me. And it might stand a long time. Why is Pam Ferris leaving again?

 

I'm waiting for one of the nurses to strangle herself on those cross-straps when her cape gets stuck in a bicycle wheel. 

[MissLucas]

Damn it, I'm never going to get through an episode of this show without crying, am I?

Probably not if you're wired like me- mild

I managed to keep it together for exactly one episode this season - and that was only because I had a pretty good idea what was going to happen

.

 

I loved that for once a salt-of-the-earth type like Sister Evangelina was wrong and had to admit her mistake. She's a wonderful character but tv shows have a tendency to glorify such types and brush over the fact that occasionally their 'take no prisoners' approach to life can backfire. This was a much needed dose of realism and it also gave Pam Parfitt something to show her range.

[JudyObscure]

This episode pointed out a real cross-pond  difference in our 1940-60's attitude  about  breast feeding.  I think the post WWII Americans were so enamored of all things, "modern," and "scientific," that breast feeding all but died out for awhile.  I determined to breast feed my baby in 1968 based on the one paragraph in my "Baby and Childcare," book about breast feeding -- it followed about 30 pages on how to make formula.  It just said that the very best milk for babies was mother's milk, it gave the baby some of the mother's immunities and the babies had less illness during the first year.  I thought that sounded good, but I got nothing but grief from the nurses in the hospital who thought I was the most inconvenient patient ever, what with the having to bring baby every few hours, and my doctor told me he hated breast feeding because if he prescribed any medicine it couldn't go in the bottle.  My husband's grandmother snickered and made dirty jokes about it. The nurses told me I was the first person to breast feed in that hospital in 30 years. I sure could have used  Sister Evangelina on my side.

 

My main reason for going against the conventional path was that it was free and my husband was the same kind of earner as the other woman's husband only without the leukemia excuse.   Altogether a very relatable episode for me.  New, first time mothers just can't have too much love and support.

[proserpina65]

New, first time mothers just can't have too much love and support.

 

THIS, a thousand times.

[operalover]

Wow Judi, I just love your story! Yes the Americans loved the "scientific method" I know my mother was told I was "allergic" to her milk so they put me on all different combinations of formulas (1960), to which I really was allergic. One of them was made with Karo syrup which is what I blame my sugar addiction for today! Also they gave me lots of different solid foods at 2 months old- I have the records from the Doctor. I blame that for all my allergies today to all kinds of foods and everything under the sun. I wonder if I was exclusively breast-fed for 6 months if I would have such terrible allergies. 

 

I knew there was something seriously wrong with that husband. There was lots of foreshadowing that he was seriously ill. I guess they didn't have pitocin to induce mothers in those days? 

 

Great recap!

Edited April 11, 2016 by operalover

[jah1986]

Another great episode. I love watching Sister Monica Joan interact with everyone but especially Sister Evangelina, she still doesn't miss too much. I really did enjoy seeing Nurse Crane have her romance. I think my favorite scene was her building up to ask Trixie and Patsy for help sprucing up and bit and their slow rises into seated positions as they were finally figuring out what was going on, you could just see they were all in.

 

I think Tom and Barbara are better suited for each other but I hate seeing it all happen right in front of Trixie's face.

Edited April 11, 2016 by jah1986

[QuelleC]

Imagine having that argument over castor oil and enemas while nobody touches a thing on their plate.  I can't imagine why the ladies just didn't do it.  Here I thought they were discussing pitocin.  I was pretty sure they'd never do a cesarean although it was said why put the mother through a major ordeal.  Show gets confusing like that sometimes. In fact, it's becoming a bit too melodramatic for me.  And I hate the new uniforms.

 

I thought that by 68 hippies were back to breastfeeding.  I guess not.  Poor mother probably had infections too.  That is NOT good for baby.  She seemed depressed as well.  I love the care that patients get on this show.  When I went in for my hysterectomy I spent three days entirely by myself and a nurse came in once a day to make me get up and walk around then talked about me as she left the room to her assistant.  No help with the walking either, even after I fell.

 

I'm very happy I breast fed mine 25 years ago.  He weened himself at 6 months.  Another thing they don't tell you is when that happens hormones go nuts.  I remember sitting on the floor sobbing then I realized that was why and it got better. 

[zxy556575]

Just the screenshot in the recap of sister Monica Joan's sad face was enough to set me off again. I just love her. (In the abstract, if I'm  honest. She'd no doubt try my patience if I had to live with her. But: TV!)

 

I appreciated the verisimilitude of the formula saleswomen representing a U.S. company. I was born in 1950 and was allergic to formula, ending up back in the hospital on IVs. The doctors finally landed on a soy-based* formula I could tolerate, but despite the dire consequences there was absolutely no suggestion that my mother try to nurse me.
 

Imagine having that argument over castor oil and enemas while nobody touches a thing on their plate.  I can't imagine why the ladies just didn't do it.  Here I thought they were discussing pitocin.

 

Me, too. After it became clear what home-based remedies they were trying, I wondered why they even bothered getting permission first.

 

*Or, as my mother always called it, "bean formula." She claimed that's why I like beans and also that being in the hospital my first couple of weeks is what made me self-sufficient. Ah, family stories.

Edited April 11, 2016 by lordonia

[ZoloftBlob]

And it may be an unpopular opinion, but I like Tom with Barbara.  He and Trixie were never a good fit, and the connection with Barbara seems much more natural to me.

 

I think it's awkward in that Trixie is right there... But as I recall, Trixie had her chance.

 

I know my mother was told I was "allergic" to her milk so they put me on all different combinations of formulas (1960), to which I really was allergic. One of them was made with Karo syrup which is what I blame my sugar addiction for today!

 

 

Yes, my mom was fed this line about me as well. No allergies here tho.

[AuntiePam]

My first was born in 1964.  There was no mention made of breast-feeding.  I remember a nurse giving me a pill.  "What's this for?"  "It's to dry up your milk."  By 1970, child #4, the doctor asked early on if I wanted to breast-feed.  Since I was working full-time by then, I declined. 

 

I liked that the formula sales rep gave going back to work as a reason for using formula.  Most of those mothers probably didn't have the kind of job where they could stop working to pump.

[Pepper Mostly]

Sister Evangeline's strong advocacy for breastfeeding and the pain and confusion of the young mother reminded me of when I hung out on misc.kids on usenet in the mid 90's when my son was small! Breast vs bottle flame wars broke out regularly, and there were thread titles like "If I can't breastfeed, should I get my tubes tied?" and "bottle feeding=lower IQ"! The more things change...my mother had all of us at the Boston Lying In Hospital, a progressive teaching hospital, (its Brigham and Women's now) and breast feeding was rare in the 50's, as was "natural" birth. The American Way of Birth by Jessica Mitford is a great read that gives an interesting view of birth in Britain and the US.

 

When Johnny whispered "I want to stay...." I lost it for real. What a moment.

[zoey1996]

I was delighted to Mr. Mason (my favorite character in Downton Abbey) reincarnated in Mr. Smith.   Poor dear man, what a difficult life it is to live with someone with dementia. 

...

What can one say about the story of the young couple?  Just thinking of it has me blubbering.  On a practical note, the make up team did a great job on the dying husband.

It would have been fun to see Lesley Nicol cast as Mrs. Smith, but I think she's much too young for the role!

The husband having leukemia and only days to live was awful.  I knew something was wrong when his chronic tiredness was brought up, but I was hoping it would be something that could be remedied.    So sad for him and his little family.

Edited April 11, 2016 by zoey1996

[operalover]

I know the wars bottle vs breast are insane. I'll admit that I was a very strongly opinionated about breastfeeding when I had mine. I just felt very strongly that it made so much sense, cause it was free and good for the baby. Now I am much more "to each his own" and I would never judge anyone for their choice. I do feel upset about moms who won't even consider it because they think it's "gross" or somehow sexual. That is how our society has treated it and it's a normal thing for mammals to do. That is why we are mammals! But a lot of women grow up thinking it's disgusting and would never try it no matter what you said. My sister is a Post-Partum nurse in the Bronx and says that patients with certain cultural backgrounds will not even try it because they have heard their whole lives that it is disgusting.

 

 There was a La Leche League leader here who was a strong breastfeeding advocate. Then right as she gave birth to her second child, she was diagnosed with cancer and had to bottle feed because she was having chemo. 

[OnceSane]

I really loved this episode, especially Sister MC using her voice to show Sister Evangelina how her adamant manner can overwhelm (new) moms. And I adored Sister E admitting she handled the situation poorly.

All the tears this episode. Bawled like a baby.

[Febgirl]

I've yet to watch an episode of this show where I DON"T cry!  Even though I can see plotlines projected from miles away, this show just breaks my heart week after week...

[zxy556575]

...my mother had all of us at the Boston Lying In Hospital, a progressive teaching hospital, (its Brigham and Women's now) and breast feeding was rare in the 50's, as was "natural" birth. The American Way of Birth by Jessica Mitford is a great read that gives an interesting view of birth in Britain and the US.

 

That's a good point about the historical swings of natural births vs drugs and "twilight sleep." It was pretty standard procedure in the U.S. back then to knock the mothers right out. The whole birthing process as seen here also highlights how the men were absolutely excluded -- many times even told to go home.

Edited April 11, 2016 by lordonia

[operalover]

My mother had me under Twilight sleep in 1960 and my brother in 1958. In 1964 & 1966 she was awake for my brothers and able to watch herself give birth in a mirror. Twilight sleep is so weird. Apparently you feel all the pain, you just don't remember it later! Not very nice!

We have a copy of the hospital bill when my dad was born in 1933. My grandmother stayed in the hospital TEN DAYS! The bill was around $50. I was in the hospital about 14 hours for my 3rd child!

[GaT]

The whole birthing process as seen here also highlights how the men were absolutely excluded -- many times even told to go home.

I had forgotten about this scene, but it was another thing that Sister Evangelina hard lined about, she kicked the father out because it was her "birthing room" & she's done that before. I wonder what they thought the father would see that he wasn't already familiar with?

[JudyObscure]

The whole birthing process as seen here also highlights how the men were absolutely excluded -- many times even told to go home.

And if the obstetricians could figure out how to keep the mothers out of it too, they would. 

One of them was made with Karo syrup which is what I blame my sugar addiction for today!

That's always been my theory, too!  The Karo syrup formula was the standard one from about 1940 until Similac stared to get really popular in the 70's.  No wonder my  generation of women are often twice the size of our little mothers.

My first was born in 1964.  There was no mention made of breast-feeding.  I remember a nurse giving me a pill.  "What's this for?"  "It's to dry up your milk."

The nurses gave me those drying up pills for three days even though they all knew I was trying to breast feed.  The doctor wouldn't let me go home "until my milk came in" so I was in for a total of five days and my jobless husband and I were paying for all that with no insurance.  My son was four when we made our last payment to the hospital.

[Pepper Mostly]

My mother had me under Twilight sleep in 1960 and my brother in 1958. In 1964 & 1966 she was awake for my brothers and able to watch herself give birth in a mirror. Twilight sleep is so weird. Apparently you feel all the pain, you just don't remember it later! Not very nice!

We have a copy of the hospital bill when my dad was born in 1933. My grandmother stayed in the hospital TEN DAYS! The bill was around $50. I was in the hospital about 14 hours for my 3rd child!

Yes, my mother was in the hospital for 10 days for all three of us, in the 50's. She said there was lots of camaraderie and they had classes on bathing and changing and whatnot. She didn't have twilight sleep, though, she had demerol and was so out of it for about two days she didn't know which end was up. Her only memory from my birth was that the doctor had the hairiest arms she'd ever seen! She says it was normal, the docs were trying to help and thought they were really performing a service by making sure there was pain relief. She remembered a fellow patient, an immigrant who didn't speak much English, who consistently refused any pain relief at all. She says the hospital staff were more baffled than anything--why would she refuse? What was she trying to prove? There are formula recipes in our baby scrapbooks. It was science! It was hygienic! Those were buzz words then, like Natural is now. :-) And it was definitely a woman's world. No fathers allowed.

[J-Man]

I apologize if this is an ignorant question, but I know absolutely nothing about breastfeeding (no children, nieces or nephews.) Is there some reason they couldn't pump milk from the woman who was having trouble breastfeeding? Was that not possible or available in the early '60s? It seems like that would've been the best solution to her particular problem. 

[morgan]

Pumping doesn't always work and I'm not even sure what kind of breast pumps they would have had back then. Sounds like she had inverted nipples which was part of the problem and might have been an issue pumping anyway. Not to mention her distress wouldn't have helped her let down at all!

I love watching this show and seeing how things have changed over the years. My mom had me in 1967 and my sisters and I were all formula fed, no ifs ands or buts about it. Don't know if she ever even thought about it, it was just what was done. On the other hand, my sisters and I all breastfed to various degrees. Some longer than others (well over a year), some in conjunction with formula. I felt so much for the poor mother wanting to but not able to. I had no problems with my eldest (born at Brigham!) could have fed an army on my supply, but with my twins I did everything and anything but had to supplement and by 6 months bf was over for us. Pumping did absolutely nothing for me, I couldn't achieve let down even though I had many experts try to help me.

I still remember my husband's grandmother coming for a long visit not long after we had our first. I got up in the morning and settled down in the family room to nurse him and she was blown away by the ease. She was born in 1929 and formula was all the rage by the time she had hers. She kept going on and on about no boiling/mixing/cleaning!

I definitely get sister Evangelina understanding the money saved through breast feeding for these women and her irritation with the formula shillers. Love that they showed her understanding as to how far she had gone affecting that mother.

This is such a wonderful show. Am so glad I found it.

Edited April 11, 2016 by morgan

[Blackie]

My mom my breast fed my brothers in the late 1950's (rural Canada) I think due to economic reasons and prob because she was already hauling water by hand to wash diapers, didn't need to wash bottles too.  She breastfed my sister and I as well (1964, 1966) but I didn't ask her why, or if ​she had pressure not to.

 

When I had my son I did the castor oil when my water broke and my contractions didn't start. The midwife had me drink 1/4 cup and then I was supposed to drink another 1/4 cup in 2 hours if the contractions didn't start.  I think I willed the contractions to start because drinking that was so gross . I definitely didn't want to do it again!!!  I don't know how well that works when the birthing process hasn't started already.

 

I was wondering the same thing about pumping some milk, at least to keep the baby from getting dehydrated.

 

ETA" don't know why you need castor oil AND an enema, castor oil cleaned everything out for me ..TMI? Ok then I won't tell the story about when the midwife told me I had the perfect nipples for breastfeeding HA!

Edited April 11, 2016 by Blackie

[zxy556575]

The nurses gave me those drying up pills for three days even though they all knew I was trying to breast feed. The doctor wouldn't let me go home "until my milk came in" so I was in for a total of five days and my jobless husband and I were paying for all that with no insurance. My son was four when we made our last payment to the hospital.

 

That's awful! Jeez. No reason you couldn't have checked yourself out except it's only fairly recently that people have felt able to speak up more and challenge their doctors about any number of things.

 

But that is one thing about giving birth before the 80s -- they'd let you recuperate in the hospital for a while. Today they whip you in and out in a damned day!

 

My mother always kept a bottle of clear Karo along with maple syrup for pancakes and I always went with the Karo as a child. I think I liked that it was thicker than the maple, but it's really gross to think about now.

[operalover]

J-Man what Morgan means by "let down" is the milk does not just gush out or drip out at all times- that would be a mess. When the baby starts to feed the milk comes into the milk ducts and that process is called "Let down". It is a reflex- there is no button you can push to get it started. When a woman pumps, it is NOT the baby but a plastic machine object-- but the milk needs to "let down" or come into the breast WITHOUT the stimuli of the baby. It seems simple but it is actually the parasympathetic nervous system in the body that works in a similar way as a man's erection: Both are parasympathetic reflexes. You can't just "will" the milk to come down like you can't will or force an erection. There has to be some sensual AND physical stimuli to cause the reflex to work- no button to push- ( to let down the milk or an erection to occur). The baby's touch on the breast and smell causes the milk to be released, that stimuli is enough to start the process. You can't force the parasympathetic nervous system to do something. Whenever I had to pump I realized if I shut my eyes and thought about the baby while VERY lightly brushing a finger over my nipples the milk would "let down" by simulating what the baby's mouth did- tricking the system. My body was thinking it was the baby and this would trigger the reflex.  But If you pull and twist and just start pumping, you won't get any milk just based on that. This is why pumping is so hard for many women. Even though they can nurse, they can't get it started and sometimes they are in a hurry or on a lunch break at work and can't relax enough to get the milk to let down! The more they tell it to the more it won't work, think about a man who has to get it up and can't...all the pulling and physical stimuli is not going to help! If they had put a pump on her nipples, that is a foreign thing, very unlikely to start the reflex to work. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by operalover

[DHDancer]

Yep, definitely a multi-tissue episode. But I'm always prepared with this show :)

 

However, I'm going to be a bit unpopular here by suggesting this show is starting to get all Hollywood on us in always having happy endings (yeah, I know John died but there's his heartless boss with a wad of cash for the kid at the funeral -- really?  I think not very realistic...)   I think back to Series 1 and the episode of the 3 kids sent to Australia and their new life and the postscript telling us all was not a happy ending for them -- so sad but so much more aligned to reality.  I felt the same thing with the thalidomide baby: father's reaction got turned around and they become a loving family...I would have liked to have seen or been told the reality of that % outcome.

 

Always having happy endings takes me out of the show a little unfortunately: this is about poor people in a very poor area of London: their lives were hard and rarely happy as we'd think of happy.   Just my opinion of course.

[QuelleC]

Wow this thread is bringing back things I haven't thought of.  Now I remember my mother in 1961 was given the pill to dry up milk.  I never got the idea she was interested and that's fine with me.  But boy was I a little chubber.  I think that was encouraged then.  My son who was breastfed was always a lean baby and is still a lean young man.  The only other thing I know about my birth is that I had to stay in the hospital a few days because they damaged m head with the forceps, especially my left temple.  She mentioned this in passing but I can tell you exactly where the "spoon" on the other side of my head was because there's a dent there too.  Maybe it was twilight sleep and they just pulled me out?  Nice, hey?  With my son they made me push every bit of the way and I'm not kidding when I tell you it was six hours.  Just the pushing part.  They yelled at me for not trying hard enough.  I could never pump either so it was team baby and me because the one night I had my sister watch him my breasts were like rocks. Sometimes being too full makes it hard for baby to latch on, too.

[AuntiePam]

Wow this thread is bringing back things I haven't thought of.  Now I remember my mother in 1961 was given the pill to dry up milk.  I never got the idea she was interested and that's fine with me.  But boy was I a little chubber.  I think that was encouraged then.  My son who was breastfed was always a lean baby and is still a lean young man. 

 

(Bolding mine.)  I don't remember if chubby babies were encouraged by the medical community, but I do remember parents bragging about not just birth weight, but weight at the 3-6-9-12-month milestones. 

 

It might still be happening.  A few years ago, I met a new mom at a family picnic, with a baby who couldn't sit up and who was so heavy, I couldn't lift her.  Mom sat the chunkball on my lap -- I bet she weighed 20 pounds, maybe more.  Her legs were like tree trunks from hip to foot.  She couldn't even put her fist in her mouth, her arms were so thick.  She was all folds, like those wrinkly dogs.  Poor kid!  I think she was 4-5 months old, if that. 

 

Mom was trying to feed her some coleslaw, and bragging about how much she weighed.  I wanted to say something about allergies, about how difficult it was going to be for that baby to sit, crawl, stand, walk, carrying all that weight.  But it wasn't my place. 

 

That's one thing that hasn't come up on the show -- I don't remember any mentions of baby weight except for babies who weren't thriving.  Have the nurses ever mentioned a baby's weight at birth?  Were nurses doing the APGAR thing back then?

[Clanstarling]

And it may be an unpopular opinion, but I like Tom with Barbara.  He and Trixie were never a good fit, and the connection with Barbara seems much more natural to me.

I do too. Trixie would have been miserable with Tom, and made the right choice. 

 

I determined to breast feed my baby in 1968 based on the one paragraph in my "Baby and Childcare," book about breast feeding -- it followed about 30 pages on how to make formula.  It just said that the very best milk for babies was mother's milk, it gave the baby some of the mother's immunities and the babies had less illness during the first year.  I thought that sounded good, but I got nothing but grief from the nurses in the hospital who thought I was the most inconvenient patient ever, what with the having to bring baby every few hours, and my doctor told me he hated breast feeding because if he prescribed any medicine it couldn't go in the bottle.  My husband's grandmother snickered and made dirty jokes about it. The nurses told me I was the first person to breast feed in that hospital in 30 years. I sure could have used  Sister Evangelina on my side.

By the time I had mine, breastfeeding was pretty much the norm and I totally expected to breastfeed. But my daughter was premature and small, and never really latched on. My milk never really came in. When she started losing weight (went from 5 lb 12 oz to 5lb 2 oz) I started her on formula - against doctor's wishes (and my husband's). I got a breast pump from LaLeche league (they are hysterical, those industrial strength pumps), and put what little milk I got into the bottles along with the formula. She started gaining weight, and was a happy camper once she started knowing what it was like to feel full. 

 

I had forgotten about this scene, but it was another thing that Sister Evangelina hard lined about, she kicked the father out because it was her "birthing room" & she's done that before. I wonder what they thought the father would see that he wasn't already familiar with?

He wouldn't have been familiar with the way it looks after a baby comes out. Especially if there was an episiotomy, or tear. 

 

But that is one thing about giving birth before the 80s -- they'd let you recuperate in the hospital for a while. Today they whip you in and out in a damned day!

Had my first in the late 80's and got to stay for two days. The second in the 90's - I was out in 21 hours. Too soon, way too soon! My Mom got a full seven days, and a shot of schnapps each day (I was born in a German hospital) Edited April 11, 2016 by clanstarling

[MissLucas]

Always having happy endings takes me out of the show a little unfortunately: this is about poor people in a very poor area of London: their lives were hard and rarely happy as we'd think of happy.   Just my opinion of course.

 

Well the episode with the kids sent to Australia was last season, as was the harrowing tale of the young gay father who definitely did not get a happy-ending either. And we're only discussing episode 2 of this season. In order to prepare myself for this season I binge-watched all previous seasons. What I noticed was the show making an effort on showing how life improved over the years even in a place like Poplar. At the very beginning some people did not even know what the NHS was - that has certainly changed over the years. So, the over-all improved living conditions might help to give the impression that the show is losing its grit.

 

That said I agree that the show is eager to make its audience cry but in exchange throws in the occasional happy-end that might not be that authentic. That has been going-on from the very beginning. But the show never makes me nostalgic going all 'Oh, how I would have loved to live back then!' and so it still gets my seal of approval for being an excellent historical drama and not a glorified fantasy (looking at you DA).

[mbutterfly]

This episode pointed out a real cross-pond  difference in our 1940-60's attitude  about  breast feeding.  I think the post WWII Americans were so enamored of all things, "modern," and "scientific," that breast feeding all but died out for awhile.  I determined to breast feed my baby in 1968 based on the one paragraph in my "Baby and Childcare," book about breast feeding -- it followed about 30 pages on how to make formula.  It just said that the very best milk for babies was mother's milk, it gave the baby some of the mother's immunities and the babies had less illness during the first year.  I thought that sounded good, but I got nothing but grief from the nurses in the hospital who thought I was the most inconvenient patient ever, what with the having to bring baby every few hours, and my doctor told me he hated breast feeding because if he prescribed any medicine it couldn't go in the bottle.  My husband's grandmother snickered and made dirty jokes about it. The nurses told me I was the first person to breast feed in that hospital in 30 years. I sure could have used  Sister Evangelina on my side.

 

My main reason for going against the conventional path was that it was free and my husband was the same kind of earner as the other woman's husband only without the leukemia excuse.   Altogether a very relatable episode for me.  New, first time mothers just can't have too much love and support.

Me too. Happily Mother was an encourager. Pediatrician was out of his young element. 'So glad I did it. It was interesting to see the difference in UK. 

Edited April 12, 2016 by mbutterfly

[anna0852]

This is the second ep in a row where I felt that the differences between the nuns and the lay staff was being highlighted more. That viewpoints and lifestyles and such don't mesh quite as well as they used to in Nonnatus house,

 

I was very proud of Sister MC for calling out Sister E for bulldozing that poor young mother. I know Sister E had the best of intentions but she really set up that poor woman for failure. She does carry an enormous amount of influence and she wasn't very careful at all about that. Her patient was trying to tell her that something was wrong and she didn't listen. I hope she thinks about in her enclosed order.

[Lillybee]

I am one of the oldest baby boomers. My mom's doctor put me on a raw milk formula. I guess it worked because I never broken a bone. When it was my turn, I decided to breast feed. When my milk came in, my boobs went from their normal 32A size to Dolly Parton boobs. I swear that they started underneath my collar bone and were huge. They went down to normal once feeding was established back to 32A. Try finding a nursing bra in that size.

 

I believe that the enema does work. I had one with my second baby. I went from 2 centimeters to birthing that kid in 35 mins. He tore my vag to shreds though so I really feel for the mom who had her labor induced that way. I wouldn't wish that pain on my worst enemy.

[JudyObscure]

It's curious that it took us until now to tell our own baby stories. I'm sorry if I got us off topic, but I just  love hearing them!

[pasdetrois]

Fat babies: I'm a boomer and I was a fat baby, which was considered healthy and desirable. Southern mothers often put Borden's Sweetened Condensed Milk in our milk, and my friend's mother put Coke in her bottle!

 

The show tries for reality, but I'm always slightly distracted by how clean and bandbox fresh these supposedly poor mothers are. Perfect hair and makeup, cute ironed outfits. Not that they should be slobs because they are poor, but we don't see them looking like real-life moms. Curlers in the hair, house slippers sometimes.

 

I'm still bugged by Trixie's prissy mannerisms. She doesn't even lounge on the bed without arranging her body and pointing her toes.

 

I'm gonna miss Sister Evangelina. She's my fave.

[proserpina65]

That's a good point about the historical swings of natural births vs drugs and "twilight sleep." It was pretty standard procedure in the U.S. back then to knock the mothers right out. The whole birthing process as seen here also highlights how the men were absolutely excluded -- many times even told to go home.

This is the only way I would ever have consented to give birth - the 'wake me up when it's over' method.  And I would never have breast fed simply because I would not have wanted to.  (It never became an issue because I knew from very young that I wasn't maternal and didn't want children.) But I'd never judge anyone else's choices regarding child birth and rearing.  As long as children (and their parents, too) are healthy, happy, well-treated and relatively well-behaved, that's all anyone should care about.

 

I love that Sister Mary Cynthia found her voice and was able to confront Sister Evangelina in a low-key but firm manner.  And I'm going to miss Sister E, and hope that she isn't away for as long as she said she wanted to be.

[JudyObscure]

I'm still bugged by Trixie's prissy mannerisms. She doesn't even lounge on the bed without arranging her body and pointing her toes.

Hee, I love that description, but I excuse Trixie most of her affectations since finding out how poor she was as a child.  I image that she got all her ideas about how to sit, etc. from ladies magazines.  What I don't like is Trixie and the other young ones looking at each other and smiling that patronizing smile every time Nurse Crane tries to join in the group fun.  I want to hiss, "She can see you."

 

The whole birthing process as seen here also highlights how the men were absolutely excluded -- many times even told to go home.

My sensitive first husband couldn't even stay in the room for the preliminary pains.  I know without a doubt if he had been encouraged to stay and watch the birth, we would never have had sex again.