Jump to content

Type keyword(s) to search

S02.E01: Through A Glass, Darkly


Athena
  • Reply
  • Start Topic

Recommended Posts

4 hours ago, Pallas said:

It also established that (at least for now!), the outcome at Culloden wasn't going to diverge from our reality, and we can assume that the outcome for the Highlands was no better. I love that as a deliberate sacrifice of one kind of suspense ("Will/can Claire and Jamie stop a doomed uprising, or change its result?") for another, more poignant. What did this fateful uprising look like from the inside, and how will it play out among the characters that we've come to care about, too. It also parted Claire and Jamie by centuries, after 2-3 years. This makes their every scene together now more precious, and raised the stakes in a way that we can more easily empathize with. Few of us have halted an insurgency. Everyone has lost someone, and lived past a dream.

Yes! I figured out—on my rewatch—that the opening scenes in  "year-of-our-Lord-nineteen-hundred-and-forty-eight" told us that the Scots lost the battle of Culloden and that the plot to derail the rebellion failed or was abandoned. It also told us that Claire believes that Jamie was at that battle—and must have been killed.  It really does make this season more dynamic, more unexpected. And I am looking forward to a glimpse of how the fateful uprising looked from the inside—and to seeing Jamie turn away from deceptive plots! (I guess THAT is the romantic in me. Everyone else can be messily human—except the protagonist!) I may need to work on that. 

2 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I love how half way through, we see her come to life again as she walks down the gangplank and Jamie reaches to her. 

Yes to this. That scene where she is withdrawn and hesitant to step into her new life in Boston! The camera pans to the hand outstretched to her; then her face lightens up more and more—and she steps into Jamie's embrace and her new life in France. Great segue.

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I cannot bear to look at Frank because I just see BJR, I don't know how on earth Claire can stomach looking at him now.

But Claire does know that Frank is not BJR as much as she knew that BJR was not Frank. The uncanny resemblance is off putting but she has many positive memories of Frank. The initial recoil that I appreciated the show giving her can be overcome. Just as Jamie is overcoming the images that BJR put in his head. Neither of those images are about the person in front of them. 

  • Love 5
Link to comment

Something I just realized was that really, Murtagh found and saved Claire from BJR the first time, without Murtagh, Jaime might never have connected with her. I feel like Murtagh has a bigger role to play in this story than we currently know...

ETA: I also want Hugh to make a reappearance and make amends for connecting Jaime to Horrocks and all that that entailed. I know it's not Hugh's fault per se, but still, I like him and want him to clean the slate with Jamie if he can.

Edited by gingerella
  • Love 2
Link to comment
On 3/25/2021 at 8:42 PM, gingerella said:

Okaaaay....My first reaction to the opening scene was, 'Nooooooooooooooooooooooo!' because that's how much I don't want Claire to leave Jamie, like, ever. It was so clear that Claire understands and accepts how deeply she loves Jamie and how little she loves Frank in comparison. Perhaps not started out that way but now, after experiencing a soul mate type of love she knows how superficial her marriage with Frank was. Then she says she's pregnant with Jamie's child and I'm left feeling like, "Am I watching the end of the series at the beginning of Season 2, is that what I'm seeing right now?"

But no, then we cut to Les Havres and Claire is still pregnant, so now I am doubly confused (is it the same pregnancy?)! Apparently Jamie told her to leave him and forget about him, that is what she tells Frank. 

 I think Claire is somewhat repulsed by Frank because of his likeness to BJR, the dude has zero chance at this point.

Anyway,  I loved Murtagh being their faithful servant, but I felt like they ought to let him know WTF is going on vis a vis Claire and the Stones. I mean, I think if anyone in Jamie's circle could handle it, it's Murtagh. 

What else, I loved the interaction between Mrs. Graham and Claire, and I assume she was trying to find out how Jamie died, and that's why she was pouring through the books on Culloden, but I'm guessing since we know there are 5 seasons already done, he doesn't die at Culloden, that is my guess, and maybe that's why he sends Claire back? I'm sure we'll learn about this by the end of the season, at least I hope so.

When 1940's Claire tried to remove Jamie's ring, my heart was breaking and I literally said aloud, 'Noooo!' Thankfully she didn't have to take it off at that point. I'm not clear why she is even agreeing to go home with Frank at this point, I mean, why? 

ETA: Last season felt neater somehow, with Claire showing up in two time periods it's feeling very 'messy' to me.

Season 2's opener was a gut punch!  ( I can't bear to have left Jamie!) I was waiting impatiently for you to get here too, because no one expects this, right? I think after this episode I was compelled to keep going at a  crazy rate!

I remember "all my friends texting me saying how can Claire return to Frank & even look at him & not think of Jack?? I wonder how this marriage will go?

They should tell Murtagh the truth!

She is agreeing to go home with Frank-because  she said she promised Jamie! 

Edited by Cdh20
  • Love 2
Link to comment
17 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Well. That was an interesting way to start! Jump forward to Claire's world and AFTER the battle of Culloden so that we are all—characters and viewers alike—flailing around without a clue. OK. We just have to ride that wave. 

I was pleased that the show gave Frank a chance to be different from BJR as a person. I felt a great deal of compassion for his struggle. He's a man of dry logic. Not a naturally empathetic being. But I believe that he loves Claire with all his heart—and in his own way.

I appreciated that the show allowed Claire to recoil from Frank's attempt to touch her because she sees BJR's face. 

But Frank has drawn HIS line in the sand. He will not share his wife with another man! Given that Mrs. Graham saw parallel marriage lines in Claire's palm I think this has to come up again. How will Frank handle it then? (just musing, not asking)

Frank knows Claire's baby cannot be his, but he admits to a brief feeling of joy that it might be—before the facts fell like bricks. I think he is both willing to believe Claire and skeptical at the same time. It's a lot for him to take in all at once. 

Then—Oh Dear! Frank asked Claire to promise him that she would let Jamie go. But Claire agreed because she promised Jamie the she would let him go. Not the capitualation Frank was looking for. After that—matching tears roll down their cheeks while in embrace. But Frank's were because she was back and Claire's were for letting Jamie go. And Damn. Frank tells her to keep Jamie's ring “until you're ready”. That was Frank—perhaps at his giving-est. 

After Frank has heard Claire's story. And told her that he believes her, she asks him to deal with her clothes from that time. Reverend Wakefield has told him that they have been confirmed as authentic from the 18th century and are very valuable. But to Frank they are a painful reminder that he has been cuckolded. He tries to think of himself as someone who can rise above that. He's said it both last season and this season. But he want no reminder around him—no matter how valuable they are to others. I'm thinking that was Claire's way returning his gesture regarding Jamie's ring. He can destroy everything else from that time. 

But I'm missing something. Have we seen that other ring Claire had with her before? The one that was missing a stone? If it was last season it is OK to let me know what episode. I'll look it up. Then I might get a hint at it means. If not? I guess the show will let us know at some point.

 

Lovely segue to the plane trip and that final step... into a new world. Of course my mind—along with Claire's— flew to Jamie's curiosity about flying when she told him about it. At least—in the second half of this episode— we get to go back to where we left off last Season. And once I saw Mutagh's there? All became right in my world. 

We have our first half/ second half parallel early. We see Jamie recoil when Claire reaches to touch him and he sees BJR's face. But he can tell Claire why where she could not tell Frank why.

Claire's insistance on stopping the Battle of Culloden. It's like she's taken on Geillis' cause in a warped way. Geillis wanted the Scotts to win. Claire just want the battle not to happen—most likely leaving the status quo which she sees as being better than what did happen. Not that Geillis would agree with her, but at least Claire now has a “cause”. The Geillis effect. 

I'm worried that Claire is leading Jamie away from his true nature with this plan of deception. He even mentions that it is not a very honourable path she's laying out for them. But it looks like he will do anything for her. I don't like the sound of that. And Murtagh, the mighty Murtagh. He knows there's a lot more to this crazy deception than they are telling him.

And we end with the appearance of smallpox again and a new powerful enemy for a new land and a new season. Tally Ho.

 

Loved your paragraph about Frank at his giving-est! 

  • Love 3
Link to comment

 Something that's been bothering me about Frank - well let's be honest, everything about him bothers me - but I can only surmise that his clench-fisted violent outburst towards Claire was meant as a clear parallel to show viewers that 'it runs in the family', and yet Claire stays with him despite what she knows of his ancestor. Again, this Claire doesn't feel at all like vibrant, fully alive Claire whom we know when she's with Jamie. The whole dichotomy of who Claire is with Jamie vs. Frank is shockingly different IMO. A woman who dims her light for one man because his ego is more important than his wife, and another man who allows his wife to shine even when he doesn't agree with what she's doing.

  • Useful 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment

Frank was wrong to make Claire stop thinking about her past life again, but I can't judge him on the sins of his ancestor.  He had spent years worried and pining for a woman who disappeared, with no closure, thinking that perhaps she had run off with another man.   Yet he was still not ready to get past her.  He finds out that she is back, but she is clearly deeply in love with and is having a baby with someone else and is cold and indifferent to him.  I don't see Claire as dimming her life when she's with Frank.  She was Frank's equal when we saw them together at the beginning of Season 1.  He may not be her true love, but he was a good guy who cared about her and loved her.  Claire is clearly and rightly still in shock, but so is Frank, to an extent.

  • Useful 1
  • Love 2
Link to comment
20 hours ago, gingerella said:

 Something that's been bothering me about Frank - well let's be honest, everything about him bothers me - but I can only surmise that his clench-fisted violent outburst towards Claire was meant as a clear parallel to show viewers that 'it runs in the family', and yet Claire stays with him despite what she knows of his ancestor. Again, this Claire doesn't feel at all like vibrant, fully alive Claire whom we know when she's with Jamie. The whole dichotomy of who Claire is with Jamie vs. Frank is shockingly different IMO. A woman who dims her light for one man because his ego is more important than his wife, and another man who allows his wife to shine even when he doesn't agree with what she's doing.

Not surprisingly, I have a different takeaway from the scene where Frank has his clench-fisted violent outburst. The fact that Frank has a breaking point does not make him like BJR. It makes him like many, many other men. The fact that he can stop himself from taking out his anger at that—that another man gave HIS WIFE something he could not but dearly wanted to—and leave her to take his anger else where? That is not BJR levels of crazy. He is not enjoying those emotions. He fought against feeling them after she "left "—when all around him encouraged him to believe that he had a right to feel them

When I think back to the scenes we were shown of Frank and Claire's wedding? I now see it from Frank's point of view.  He was doing something spontaneous—perhaps wild and uncalculated—something that most people who knew him would never suspect he had in him. Something that was deeply meaningful to him. From where we are now in this saga it seems clear to me that he loved Claire much more than she loved him. She was delighted with his spontaneous impulse and enjoyed participating in it.  But I can't help but think that if they weren't in the middle of a war? She would have wanted some time to consider his proposal. 

He wanted to be with her forever, from that moment on. She was thinking of other things she wanted to do—like do her part in the life changing event that was WW ll.  She would not have been the only woman who mistook the urgency of the times for love.

We have only seen a small bit of what formed Claire as a child—and nothing of what formed Frank. All we've been told is that Claire thought Frank would have wanted to please his family and have a big traditional wedding. And that she wasn't sure they would approve of her. I suspect Frank wanted to marry Claire so badly that he wasn't going to LET his parents have a say. 

I saw how he dealt with being overwhelmed by anger as the show giving us how different he was from his ancestor. I don't believe that the choices BJR made in his time can be replicated by heredity. They spring from life circumstances. Frank, in 1943, doesn't have the level of power over others that BJR had nor have we seen that he revels in subjugating others. Not even Claire—even though he doesn't pay much attention to her thoughts or what she wants from a marriage. She, for her part, is trying to be be the kind of wife she is expected to be in that time—by the society she lives in. Frank is part of that society and believes that is how a good marriage works. There are close to 80 years of changes coming!  

Frank can be said to be like an ancestor in his stubbornness, in being quick to anger and other things like that, but not that he must act the same way or do the same things as an ancestor.  What the show is missing right now is who Frank was before Claire and therefore what motivates his action. 

So that is my defence of what we have seen so far. But the show has given me something to watch for in Frank going forward. It has made it clear since Season One that Claire is THE one for Frank. He repeats multiple times—as he responds to Claire's story—that all he cares about is that she is back. That is ALL he cares about, nothing else.

What he learned from her story was that she didn't choose to leave him. We've seen him become jealous of an unknown man looking up at her window. He says that he doesn't understand Claire's feelings for another man, nor how (a man, him) could understand them. And when she tells him about the baby he is so past her being gone from him for x number of years—that he first reacts as though she's just come home from the doctor. 

Claires sees that he is trying to be supportive and understanding but she knows his academic, rational brain and SHE believes that he cannot really accept her explanation, but will see it as her trying to make HIM leave her.  I think that is what she IS trying to do. That way she is not betraying the one she has come to love unconditionally. The one she left behind in the past because HE asked it of her. So she played her last card—that she is carrying Jamie's child—and encountered a side of Frank she had not seen before. Of course she was shaken. She'd been through a lot of dangerous situations created by a man who looked just like Frank.

 My fear is that this story wants me to believe that BJR's obsessions have come down through time to Frank and I'm not going to like it if that proves true.

Edited by Anothermi
spelling/ clarity
  • Useful 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment

**EDITED MAR 28, 2021 TO CORRECT HAZY OR INACCURATE DATES**

Time frames: from info gleaned from last Season and the start of the 1st episode this season.  (because I just started pondering this issue.)

**Marriage of Frank and Claire: They got married near the start of WW ll which was Sept 1, 1939 and didn't see each other for 5 years. 

May 8, 1945—VE Day— Claire was still in France. I must assume it might have taken months—or more—for her to be de-mobbed and return to England and meet up with Frank again. I don't have much experience on how those steps occur. 

**October  30, 1945: 2nd honeymoon in Inverness and Claire's unscheduled trip to the 1700s. Confirmed by Frank's signing the register at the Inn in Inverness.

1743 (probably October?)—when Claire arrives at the other side of the stone. A couple of years before the date she stood in front of the stone her time.

1744 when Jamie and Claire land in France. 

Battle of Culloden: 16 April 1746

Claire returns to her time: 1948

It seem to me that the force that moves Claire from one time to another may be somewhat... elastic. I'd been thinking the stones moved her from one date in the 1900s to the equivalent day in the 1700s, but it doesn't look like that is the case.

Wouldn't she know if Jamie had died at Culloden if she LEFT the 1700s in 1748?  Seemed like she left—possibly in a great hurry—before that pivotal battle. Who's winding the gears and how are the dates determined? Are we to be on the look out for some divine intervention in this version of Time Travel? Or is this all random?

I do hope the show starts giving us more information regarding how the Stones work. (don't need answers now)

Edited by Anothermi
Do research. Correct dates.
  • Love 3
Link to comment
22 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Not surprisingly, I have a different takeaway from the scene where Frank has his clench-fisted violent outburst. The fact that Frank has a breaking point does not make him like BJR. It makes him like many, many other men. The fact that he can stop himself from taking out his anger at that—that another man gave HIS WIFE something he could not but dearly wanted to—and leave her to take his anger else where? That is not BJR levels of crazy. He is not enjoying those emotions. He fought against feeling them after she "left "—when all around him encouraged him to believe that he had a right to feel them

While I still don't like Frank, I appreciate your differing viewpoint and it gives me another perspective on him.

 

22 hours ago, Anothermi said:

When I think back to the scenes we were shown of Frank and Claire's wedding? I now see it from Frank's point of view.  He was doing something spontaneous—perhaps wild and uncalculated—something that most people who knew him would never suspect he had in him. Something that was deeply meaningful to him. From where we are now in this saga it seems clear to me that he loved Claire much more than she loved him. She was delighted with his spontaneous impulse and enjoyed participating in it.  But I can't help but think that if they weren't in the middle of a war? She would have wanted some time to consider his proposal. 

He wanted to be with her forever, from that moment on. She was thinking of other things she wanted to do—like do her part in the life changing event that was WW ll.  She would not have been the only woman who mistook the urgency of the times for love.

I see your point, yet I got the vibe that Frank wanted to seal the deal before anyone else - ie: his parents - could put the kibosh on the marriage to this orphan without a fancy heritage. I think the bolded part is very astute and is likely closer to the truth of Claire's motives in agreeing to marry Frank in the moment. I guess what I glean from their scenes together is a melancholy in her that doesn't jive with a happy wife, more wistful, like someone who made their bed and now will lie in it because that's what her duty is now. But I like hearing your take because admittedly I am an anti-Frankite!

22 hours ago, Anothermi said:

So that is my defence of what we have seen so far. But the show has given me something to watch for in Frank going forward. It has made it clear since Season One that Claire is THE one for Frank. He repeats multiple times—as he responds to Claire's story—that all he cares about is that she is back. That is ALL he cares about, nothing else.

What he learned from her story was that she didn't choose to leave him. We've seen him become jealous of an unknown man looking up at her window. He says that he doesn't understand Claire's feelings for another man, nor how (a man, him) could understand them. And when she tells him about the baby he is so past her being gone from him for x number of years—that he first reacts as though she's just come home from the doctor. 

Yes, it was interesting how his repeating that all that matters is that she is here NOW, nothing else matters. It's a redux, in front of a similar fireplace and setting, of that passive aggressive fight he picked with her after seeing the Highlander staring up at her in her window. Last time, we thought he was saying it to let himself off the hook for cheating on Claire during the war, and now he's saying if after Claire has told him, 'I married another man, and I loved him deeply." She never really expressed a deep love to Frank that I can remember so that had to sting hearing those words. It wasnt like "I was forced to marry another man..." No, she wanted to make it clear that she deeply loved him, and furthermore, HE had sent her back against her will and HE had made her promise to forget him and not live in the past. And while Frank is making her promise to not let this memory live in the present, Claire's again saying very clearly that she will forget him not because Frank asks it of her, but because Jamie asked it of her.  And there we have it - Frank makes it clear that Claire is THE ONE for him, while Claire makes it clear that Jamie is THE ONE for her. What a fucking mess!

All of this can be blamed on the Stones, sort of...and yet I am back to thinking that the Stones call people to them, I don't think certain folks just happen to stumble upon them and then just happen to be pulled through time. I am thinking more and more that that the Stone summon those destined for travel through. And thus, Frank has to exist to bring Claire to Inverness at that moment in time so that Jamie can subliminally call her back to him. Until there is a better premise presented, that's what I'm thinking right now.

1 hour ago, Anothermi said:

It seem to me that the force that moves Claire from one time to another may be somewhat... elastic. I'd been thinking the stones moved her from one date in the 1900s to the equivalent day in the 1700s, but it doesn't look like that is the case.

Wouldn't she know if Jamie had died at Culloden if she LEFT the 1700s in 1748?  Seemed like she left—possibly in a great hurry—before that pivotal battle. Who's winding the gears and how are the dates determined? Are we to be on the look out for some divine intervention in this version of Time Travel? Or is this all random?

I do hope the show starts giving us more information regarding how the Stones work. (don't need answers now)

I sort of thought the same thing, that Claire had left in 1943 and landed in 1743, but I think your times are more correct, so it's not tit for tat exactly. It also explains that since we know the Battle of Culloden happens in 1746 is it? That Jamie sent her away for her own safety, and thats why she doesn't know what happened to him. He would never not stand with his men so it stands to reason that he was at that battle.

Edited by gingerella
  • Love 3
Link to comment

I run away for a few days and now I have so much to read and so many responses floating around in my head.  This is going to be a great day!! (I mean, I probably won't bill as many hours to clients today but...hmmpf...I'll catch up later.  This is important!)

On 3/27/2021 at 8:35 PM, gingerella said:

 Something that's been bothering me about Frank - well let's be honest, everything about him bothers me - but I can only surmise that his clench-fisted violent outburst towards Claire was meant as a clear parallel to show viewers that 'it runs in the family', and yet Claire stays with him despite what she knows of his ancestor. Again, this Claire doesn't feel at all like vibrant, fully alive Claire whom we know when she's with Jamie. The whole dichotomy of who Claire is with Jamie vs. Frank is shockingly different IMO. A woman who dims her light for one man because his ego is more important than his wife, and another man who allows his wife to shine even when he doesn't agree with what she's doing.

This made me laugh.  Ugh, Frank.  Blah. It IS really striking how different Claire is between Jamie and Frank.  Your last statement is incredibly important for all of us.  If I had a daughter, I would embroider this on her pillow...if I could thread a needle and you know, actually embroider.  Sometimes, people inadvertently steal our sparkle, and we don't even know it (and maybe they don't even know they've done it).

On 3/28/2021 at 12:09 AM, Anothermi said:

The fact that Frank has a breaking point does not make him like BJR. It makes him like many, many other men. The fact that he can stop himself from taking out his anger at that—that another man gave HIS WIFE something he could not but dearly wanted to—and leave her to take his anger else where? That is not BJR levels of crazy. He is not enjoying those emotions. He fought against feeling them after she "left "—when all around him encouraged him to believe that he had a right to feel them

When I think back to the scenes we were shown of Frank and Claire's wedding? I now see it from Frank's point of view.  He was doing something spontaneous—perhaps wild and uncalculated—something that most people who knew him would never suspect he had in him. Something that was deeply meaningful to him. From where we are now in this saga it seems clear to me that he loved Claire much more than she loved him. She was delighted with his spontaneous impulse and enjoyed participating in it.  But I can't help but think that if they weren't in the middle of a war? She would have wanted some time to consider his proposal. 

He wanted to be with her forever, from that moment on. She was thinking of other things she wanted to do—like do her part in the life changing event that was WW ll.  She would not have been the only woman who mistook the urgency of the times for love.

I appreciate this take.  I think there's a lot of truth to this.  Perhaps he knew she wasn't quite where he was in terms of affection, which is why he held on so tightly.  

12 hours ago, gingerella said:

I guess what I glean from their scenes together is a melancholy in her that doesn't jive with a happy wife, more wistful, like someone who made their bed and now will lie in it because that's what her duty is now. But I like hearing your take because admittedly I am an anti-Frankite!

We are all familiar with the very-true-to-life story of a woman marrying too young and then wistfully looks back on her life with regret.  With the war looming at the time of their marriage, it was probably hard to see what their life would really look like.  At 20, I didn't know what the F I was doing with anything.  Now that the war is over, and Frank is talking of settling down and having a family, that has to give Claire some pause.  This is a life she has never had.  Does she want something like this?  Can she happily live like this?  

As for timing and timelines and years and dates and what happened when, I'll let you all continue to ponder that.    

  • Love 3
Link to comment
29 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Now that the war is over, and Frank is talking of settling down and having a family, that has to give Claire some pause.  This is a life she has never had.  Does she want something like this?  Can she happily live like this?  

And this has me remembering the beginning of S01E01. Claire looking into the shop window at the beautiful blue vase—knowing that part of her wanted a place/ home of her own—and then going on to wonder what would have happened in her life if she had bought that vase—and the  life path that went with it (in voice over).

  • Love 3
Link to comment
3 minutes ago, Anothermi said:

And this has me remembering the beginning of S01E01. Claire looking into the shop window at the beautiful blue vase—knowing that part of her wanted a place/ home of her own—and then going on to wonder what would have happened in her life if she had bought that vase—and the  life path that went with it (in voice over).

Exactement! (as the French say, kinda...)

  • LOL 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
17 hours ago, gingerella said:

He would never not stand with his men so it stands to reason that he was at that battle.

I love that you think this about Jamie after only knowing him for a season! 

  • LOL 1
  • Love 1
Link to comment
6 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

 

On 3/27/2021 at 9:09 PM, Anothermi said:

The fact that Frank has a breaking point does not make him like BJR. It makes him like many, many other men. The fact that he can stop himself from taking out his anger at that—that another man gave HIS WIFE something he could not but dearly wanted to—and leave her to take his anger else where? That is not BJR levels of crazy. He is not enjoying those emotions. He fought against feeling them after she "left "—when all around him encouraged him to believe that he had a right to feel them

When I think back to the scenes we were shown of Frank and Claire's wedding? I now see it from Frank's point of view.  He was doing something spontaneous—perhaps wild and uncalculated—something that most people who knew him would never suspect he had in him. Something that was deeply meaningful to him. From where we are now in this saga it seems clear to me that he loved Claire much more than she loved him. She was delighted with his spontaneous impulse and enjoyed participating in it.  But I can't help but think that if they weren't in the middle of a war? She would have wanted some time to consider his proposal. 

He wanted to be with her forever, from that moment on. She was thinking of other things she wanted to do—like do her part in the life changing event that was WW ll.  She would not have been the only woman who mistook the urgency of the times for love.

Read more  

I appreciate this take.  I think there's a lot of truth to this.  Perhaps he knew she wasn't quite where he was in terms of affection, which is why he held on so tightly.  

Yes! I go back to Claire's wanting to buy that vase in Inverness, to make herself a home that she'd never had before. I think she wanted to belong to someone in the deepest emotional way, but she didn't know what that even felt like, so she settled for Frank who was a decent enough bloke, and he loved her very much, and that's why I think she married Frank, not out of this deep love, but more for the desire to belong to another, to make a home together, something she's never really had before given her upbringing. Unfortunately, she has found with Jamie that deep connection, that sense that they belong to one another mind, body, and soul. With Jamie she has her soul mate, but ironically cannot seem to have that physical home she's wanted so badly, the place where she can put a vase out. And with Frank she has a man she maybe feels love and respect for but she now knows isn't her soul mate because she doesn't feel near the depth of emotion that she does for Jamie. And yet Frank can give her the physical home with a vase. Oh cruel fate...

 

1 hour ago, Cdh20 said:

I love that you think this about Jamie after only knowing him for a season! 

He wears his heart on his sleeve.

6 hours ago, SassAndSnacks said:

Sometimes, people inadvertently steal our sparkle, and we don't even know it (and maybe they don't even know they've done it).

This times a zillion. I will give Frank this much - due to @Anothermi's thoughts on Frank - I don't think he intentionally diminishes Claire's light, I think it's just him being a man/husband in the 1940s, he's probably not all that different from most men of his time. But when Claire responds in S01E01 - they are in the library with the Rev and Frank makes a comment about something and then something dismissive, assuming Claire wont get it, and she responds with a full litany of facts on that subject, Frank seems taken aback at her knowledge. He doesn't, IIRC, say how delighted he is that his wife knows these things, IIRC Claire is the one to toot her own horn saying something like "I do know things" (grossly paraphrasing!). To me, that was the perfect illustration of Frank not seeing Claire as his equal.

  • Useful 1
  • Love 5
Link to comment
4 hours ago, gingerella said:

But when Claire responds in S01E01 - they are in the library with the Rev and Frank makes a comment about something and then something dismissive, assuming Claire wont get it, and she responds with a full litany of facts on that subject, Frank seems taken aback at her knowledge. He doesn't, IIRC, say how delighted he is that his wife knows these things, IIRC Claire is the one to toot her own horn saying something like "I do know things" (grossly paraphrasing!). To me, that was the perfect illustration of Frank not seeing Claire as his equal.

Yes, it is these subtle dismissals that really grate where Frank is concerned.  They seem small, but they add up to an overall attitude and lack of appreciation where Claire is concerned.  

  • Love 2
Link to comment

It was only last night that I commented that a move to France would keep Claire from going back to her own timeline.  So the very first scene proved me wrong.  Ha! 
I do believe that Claire came to consider Jamie her love and  soulmate and didn’t want to return … but I still don’t  think she chose to stay in season 1 when Jamie took her to the stones.  I think the stones made that choice for her.   I am unspoiled  by any book or show runner interview- I know some of that says otherwise - let me have my opinion. Please. 
 

Being as Claire came back in 1948, pregnant and having no real way to support herself and a child, she made the only real choice available to her.  However, it’s not going to work as Frank isn’t going to let it work.  He’s not going to be able to deal with Claire living with Jamie in her head.  The wedding ring comment about taking it off when she was ready …when  he himself noticed she was still wearing her original wedding ring when she returned.   On top of that, Claire referred to herself as his ex-wife.  She’s not married to him in her heart any more. 
 

I still have no idea why Jamie would  show up in 1945 as either a ghost or a time traveler that doesn’t need stones to travel. It’s either one or the other because he just disappeared as Frank touched him. 

Edited by mythoughtis
Corrected 1943 to 1945
Link to comment
10 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

It was only last night that I commented that a move to France would keep Claire from going back to her own timeline.  So the very first scene proved me wrong.  Ha! 
I do believe that Claire came to consider Jamie her love and  soulmate and didn’t want to return … but I still don’t  think she chose to stay in season 1 when Jamie took her to the stones.  I think the stones made that choice for her.   I am unspoiled  by any book or show runner interview- I know some of that says otherwise - let me have my opinion. Please. 
 

Being as Claire came back in 1948, pregnant and having no real way to support herself and a child, she made the only real choice available to her.  However, it’s not going to work as Frank isn’t going to let it work.  He’s not going to be able to deal with Claire living with Jamie in her head.  The wedding ring comment about taking it off when she was ready …when  he himself noticed she was still wearing her original wedding ring when she returned.   On top of that, Claire referred to herself as his ex-wife.  She’s not married to him in her heart any more. 
 

I still have no idea why Jamie would  show up in 1943 as either a ghost or a time traveler that doesn’t need stones to travel. It’s either one or the other because he just disappeared as Frank touched him. 

I am enjoying reading your comments as your work your way through these episodes. 

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...