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Tara Ariano

S03.E10: Fallen

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Jaha uses a terrifying new method to convince Abby to join his cause; Kane goes on a mission; and Bellamy's hit hard with the truth. Meanwhile, Monty ends up in a precarious situation; and Jasper races to save one of his own.

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Well.  They've jumped into rape now.  It was really only a matter of time.

 

Poor Raven.  Why does all this shit have to happen to her?  

Edited by Lion
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What❗   Abby❗      The  'zombie-horde'❗                           ...and, and, ALL of THAT OTHER stuff ⁉  

This frackin'  show!

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"You really are the Angel of Death". Wow, harsh Jasper. But true. :-/ And I think I can forgive him for a little thoughtlessness when the zombie horde was chasing him. Speaking of zombies, did anyone else think it was kind of weird that the Arkadia crew effectively turned into zombies just as Alycia Debnam Carey left the show to work on "Fear the Walking Dead?" Yeah, I know it's a coincidence but I couldn't help but think of it, especially with the commercial for FTWD right in the middle of the episode.

 

Damn, Lindsey Morgan knocked it out of the PARK this week. Her "possession" by ALLIE was downright spooky in how well she got the mannerisms, speaking pattern and even the voice down. I was actually wondering if they did some makeup or CGI tricks to make her look more like ALLIE, because for a couple seconds she was a dead ringer. 

 

I swear there were a couple points this episode where I was about to give up on the show altogether because it just got way too dark and hopeless. But they gave us a few flickers of hope, and I have to admit I AM sort of looking forward to the reunion beween Murphy and Skaikru in Polis. "He's still alive? Seriously?!?"

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Finally glad that Raven got some major focus on this one.  Lindsay Morgan is one of the best in this cast, and I thought she nailed it; especially the part when she became ALLIE.  Her voice mannerisms and imitation of Erica Cerra's performance was eerie.  It still kind of sucks that Raven keeps getting put through hell.  The scene when she finally submits because the pain was too much, was sad to watch.  I hope Jasper and Clarke are able to figure something out.

 

So hope this is really it for Pike.  My only fear is that when they bring him to Ontari, she decides to spare him for some bizarre reason.  But this arc needs end as soon as possible.  Looks like they're trying to plant the seeds of Bellamy realizing he was wrong and trying to fix it, but I'm going to take more convincing.  Octavia beating the shit out of him was satisfying.

 

With Pike away, Jaha comes to play.  So, Arcadia has fallen since they forced Abby to finally join the City of Light, so now everyone is under there control.  I can only imagine what ALIE, Jaha, and the rest are planning.  I wonder how the hierarchy works in the City of Light, because Abby already seems to be high on the food chain.

 

Well, I guess this season already got its Game of Thrones on with the Trial by Combat and all that political maneuvering, so I guess it was about time to bust out the sure to be controversial rape scene.  Sure, it was shot almost playful and Ontari looks good naked, but Murphy specifically said he was with someone else, she more or less tells him he's in a world of hurt if he doesn't comply to all of her demands, and he does so, but makes sure to say "The things I do to survive."  So, yeah, that's rape.  But I at least think the show knows this.  I hope so, at least.

 

Did I mention how awesome Lindsey Morgan is?  Raven better not ever get one of these "surprising" deaths!

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So hope this is really it for Pike.  My only fear is that when they bring him to Ontari, she decides to spare him for some bizarre reason.  But this arc needs end as soon as possible.  Looks like they're trying to plant the seeds of Bellamy realizing he was wrong and trying to fix it, but I'm going to take more convincing.  Octavia beating the shit out of him was satisfying.

I have a feeling Pike survives to next season. I hope I'm wrong, but the characters that aggravate me the most seem to have the longest shelf-life on this show. Agree about the arc needing to be over, like yesterday.

Bellamy continues to wear his face of indignation throughout the past couple of episodes. I truly don't think he'll admit to anything other than alienating his sister. He even dared to look pissed and put out when Miller and Harper wouldn't give him anything last episode. Those instances alone are enough for me to continue to not give a shit about Bellamy.

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Bellamy continues to wear his face of indignation throughout the past couple of episodes. I truly don't think he'll admit to anything other than alienating his sister. He even dared to look pissed and put out when Miller and Harper wouldn't give him anything last episode. Those instances alone are enough for me to continue to not give a shit about Bellamy.

 

When he said "My sister, my responsibility" I laughed. Because, nice callback. But also, too late. I hate to break it to the writers but too late. And for the wrong reasons. But then Kane pointed out to him that it was for the wrong reasons and he did the typical Bellamy thing of actually listening so maybe they will manage to pull this off. But he needs far more than a beat down from his sister. Of course he handed over Pike to the Grounders so he won't get it from them. And Kane and Clarke are too pragmatic. But Octavia in this episode made me think she may at least try to Jus drein jus daun him. Which, retrospectively, is very Murphy.

 

It was a great episode, really. Disturbing and creepy and Murphy was amazing (did we ever think we'd type that?). I have secret head canon that Clarke comes back and Murphy turns on Ontari in a heartbeat because for all his "I am a survivor" stuff I think he really does respect her.

Edited by AudienceofOne

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Murphy does what's good for Murphy. I'd like to THINK he has loyalty - but I'm pretty sure he doesn't. He's loyal to whoever or whatever is going to help him most in the moment. He's a survivor. That's for sure. And that's what makes him interesting and unpredictable.

 

Monty's mom - she can rot in hell.

 

Based on the previews, I look forward to Raven reciting all the past Commanders and hopefully being called Heda. One can dream, right?

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Torturous computer programs, hateful siblings, and one rat-faced Murphy are the agents of change in a plot-shattering episode.

http://previously.tv/the-100/the-100-tries-to-clean-up-its-bloody-mess-by-getting-bloody-messier/"> Read the story

 

And did you really have to call Pike and Monty "the only two men I love" during your fake goodbye?

Wasn't she talking about Monty and his dead father?  She'd already lost one, didn't want to lose both.  

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I hope Bellamy's beautiful tears aren't suppose to wipe the slate clean. As soon as it started with the slow-mo of Bellamy's chain, I was rolling my eyes. That massacre he took part in was worse than what Finn did, and Finn died for that shit. You tried, show.

 

So Ontari is pretty childish. The Ice Queen didn't train her for statehood or leadership, but purely as a weapon. Now the Ice Queen is dead, her weapon is on the throne, and she doesn't have ethics or basic social skills, let alone people management or diplomacy training! Disaster.

 

Whoever said that this show has gone full Game of Thrones on The CW nailed it. Now Murphy is a sex slave; Raven got tortured, possessed and cut; Ontari blinded a guy with her bare hands. I usually enjoy the storytelling on this show, but this season I'm finding the grimdarkness a bit tiresome and sophomoric.

 

And I wonder how the writers will handle the reaction to a rape that lots of viewers, reviewers and critics don't recognise as rape. I really hope the writers stay out of it tbh! It's a clusterfuck waiting to happen. One dumb tweet, and the whole thing will go up in internet flames.

 

I did love the moment when Clarke appeared at the end of the episode in the middle of the action. Oh and I enjoyed Raven shouting "Because you stole my memories, you crazy bitch!" so much that I rewound to watch it again!

Edited by Kirsty
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I said in another thread a few days ago that it's surprising that Rothenberg hadn't dabbled in showing sexual assault yet and there it was, right on cue. This show is dangerously close to becoming the network TV equivalent of torture porn, though so badly done it's not scary or dramatic or sexy or anything really.. Just snark-bait.

 

A few episodes ago ALIE was babbling about how she respected people's free will. It was funny now and even funnier now.

 

Muprhy's role in Polis has never made any sense and this continues, no surprises, really. Him being the new flame keeper is the equivalent of someone who was Buddhist two days ago being chosen to become a Pope out of the blue. I am sure Ontari can find someone else to rape, someone who doesn't know her biggest secret and is about as trustworthy as a poisonous snake. Just one more darker and edgier plotline that makes no sense whatsoever.

 

The grounders not only left Bellamy to Octavia and co for no reason last episode but they did it again now. Don't these idiots know whoPike's right hand was? And yes, that is some quick and easy redemption for him, I am shocked. Not.

 

What an original plot - let's torture Raven some more. #Rothenberg for the all Emmies 2017!

 

Pike's group being overrun so easily and quickly by not so many grounders once again makes his war strategy look extremely foolish.

 

Honestly, I don't know why I even keep watching this trainwreck. When I can't even enjoy Octavia beating the shit out of Bellamy (because I could see the heel-face turn a light year away), or Pike being captured why bother? I might as well rewatch BSG, it was not very good in seasons 3 and 4 but at least it had some actual characterization and humour to the end. The Cylons plan made no sense but the Cylons were a million times more interesting than ALIE. "According to the data all human behaviour revolves around the avoidance of pain". That shallow and clearly wrong conclusion is all the great AI could come up with?

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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I loved the scene where Clarke showed up out of nowhere and wanted to talk about what was happening in her plot line, only to have Jasper be like, "STFU, there's something happening in my plot line right now!"

 

Agree with the PTV review -- getting rid of Pike was way too easy. That looked like a setup from a thousand miles away, but I was legit surprised by the detail where Monty's mother sold him out.

 

Uncomfortable rape scene was uncomfortable. I think we're supposed to believe he's okay with it -- due to the porny-sounding music in the background and his sarcastic comments at the end -- and that's what makes it so awkward and wrong. Aside from that scene, which I didn't like, I'm starting to find it kind of funny that Murphy's always on some crazy side-adventure by himself, getting abandoned by the main cast and thrown from one bad situation to another.

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So Ontari is pretty childish. The Ice Queen didn't train her for statehood or leadership, but purely as a weapon. Now the Ice Queen is dead, her weapon is on the throne, and she doesn't have ethics or basic social skills, let alone people management or diplomacy training! Disaster.

 

Exactly. Everything she did since she came to Polis was under orders. She is a weapon and a rather unsophisticated one. The Ice Queen intended to rule by proxy and she would never have given Ontari skills that would challenge that. Roan clearly decided it was in his people's interests to use the weapon she had created but he should never have run off after the new Flamekeeper before solidifying her power.

 

For me, I don't have the same problems others do with Ontari's ascension. It was never made explicit but, if I understand the process correctly, the Nightbloods were to be offered the AI. Once the AI was accepted, the other Nightbloods were killed to ensure there would be no other contenders to the throne. So it was the flame that was supposed to "choose" the new Heda.

 

To try to assert some control over the process, the Nightbloods go through training and assessment to choose the best new leader. Aden as Lexa's choice would have been offered the AI first and that's why they were assuming he would ascend to the throne. This shows the extreme cynicism of the Ice Queen's plan. By preemptively killing all other contenders, she put the clans in the position where they would have to accept Ontari as Heda because they had no choice. I guess she thought - and we know she was right - that the AI only requires the Nightblood to function so isn't really "choosing" anything.

 

Titus, as a religious fanatic, was wildly overestimating the people's need to be assured by a Flamekeeper that the Flame had found a new Heda. These people want somebody in charge and are happy to choose a leader who seems strong. The fact that she's not strong but is simply a blunt sword won't be apparent yet to them.

 

 

Murphy does what's good for Murphy. I'd like to THINK he has loyalty - but I'm pretty sure he doesn't.

 

I never said anything about loyalty. I said respect. Murphy has seen too much not to back Clarke over just about anybody. I think he's still kicking himself for backing Bellamy when they landed. If he'd backed Clarke then, his story would have been very different.

 

 

Well, I guess this season already got its Game of Thrones on with the Trial by Combat and all that political maneuvering, so I guess it was about time to bust out the sure to be controversial rape scene.

 

 

And of course they rape a man because nobody ever said the showrunners don't know their audience. Except... they clearly don't know their audience at all.

 

Every HBO show ever made (including GoT) has fallen into this exact trap - see True Blood etc etc. And now The 100 does as well. The first season or two are amazing (ok, season 1 of this show was only maybe 1/3 amazing but what was amazing about it was AMAZING) and it's because of the plotting, characterisation and brave storytelling. They're bold and uncompromising and gritty. And yes, they're also sexy and violent because so is life. And then somewhere along the line they decide that the reason people are watching is because of the sex and violence and so they don't need to worry so much about the other stuff.  Suddenly what was brave storytelling becomes shock-value storytelling. What was profound and complex becomes shallow and a little juvenile. And then they can't understand why people switch off because they truly believe they're giving their audience what they want.

 

Torturous computer programs, hateful siblings, and one rat-faced Murphy are the agents of change in a plot-shattering episode.

http://previously.tv/the-100/the-100-tries-to-clean-up-its-bloody-mess-by-getting-bloody-messier/"> Read the story

Plot shattering but, I agree, a little less sensical than it should have been. My biggest problem was that we're supposed to believe Arkadia fell to ALIE while Jasper was tied up. Now I don't know if we've established what Arkadia's pop is now but Jaha was flying under the radar because only about 20 people had taken the chip. Let's assume there's about 300 in the settlement (the writers seem to like the number). We're supposed to believe that while Jasper was tied up 280 people were so convinced by Abby and so full of pain that they agreed to take the chip. That seems extremely unlikely. What about Pike's inner circle? Monty's Mum? The interned Grounders? Unlikely.

 

EDITED: Because essays should be proofread

Edited by AudienceofOne
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No Abby!

 

Glad Pike will die soon.

 

Octavia beating her brother was great. Hope she never forgives him.

 

Monty's mother turning him in is what he deserved, he turned on Kane and everyone for his mother and Pike. 

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For me, I don't have the same problems others do with Ontari's ascension. It was never made explicit but, if I understand the process correctly, the Nightbloods were to be offered the AI. Once the AI was accepted, the other Nightbloods were killed to ensure there would be no other contenders to the throne. So it was the flame that was supposed to "choose" the new Heda.

The conclave is a fight to the death. The remaining nightblood takes the Flame. The "choosing" of the nightblood is just whoever wins. Ontari killed the nightbloods in their sleep the night before the conclave. The outcome would have likely been the same, unless all the little nightbloods agreed to take on Ontari at once. By killing the Nightbloods in their sleep, they weren't given the chance to fight for the right to become heda so she stole the title and doesn't even have the Flame to show for it.

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The conclave is a fight to the death. The remaining nightblood takes the Flame. The "choosing" of the nightblood is just whoever wins. Ontari killed the nightbloods in their sleep the night before the conclave. The outcome would have likely been the same, unless all the little nightbloods agreed to take on Ontari at once. By killing the Nightbloods in their sleep, they weren't given the chance to fight for the right to become heda so she stole the title and doesn't even have the Flame to show for it.

 

Thanks. You're probably right. It just didn't make sense that Titus constantly referred to the Flame "choosing" the next Heda. I mean, if you know that some people die when you give them the AI, it seems insane to kill them before you try to put it in one of their neck's. But then it seems insane to kill all the Nightbloods when the blood is so rare as well so...

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Wow, looking around online you'd think that Murphy's final scene implied that he got lucky rather than one that explicitly showed a man about to be turned into a sex slave and raped.  I'm almost shocked that this is surprising to me.  But seriously, how that scene could be twisted into something other than rape is just unthinkable.  

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ottoDbusdriver, I was waiting for you to comment. Back in Season 2 when you used to post about the serious writing issues/plot holes that this show had, I always thought you were a little harsh but now I'm apologising. You were absolutely right and I'm just mad at myself that it took me up until a few weeks ago to see it too :(

 

So, what happened to Clarke's white horse ?

 

It probably got eaten by the random gorilla from last season *shrug*

Edited by kdm07
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It probably got eaten by the random gorilla from last season *shrug*

 

That's as good a reason as any.

 

And how did Clarke break through this blockade and get so close to Arkadia without being captured or killed ?  She was right outside the gates, and no Grounders took a shot at her -- really ? And apparently she was walking down the middle of the road not even trying to evade detection by the Grounders. Because I would think that main entrance to Arkadia would have been where the blockade had the heaviest Grounder coverage.

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The way they've painted the grounder world, there doesn't seem to be many blondes around. Clarke stuck out when she was Wanheda and with the addition of the horse... It appears the blockade is whatever the writers need it to be--hostile, patient, solid, spread thin, fixed in place, or retreating, in the woods, but away from the roads.

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Oddly enough that didn't bother me. I figure - she's Wanheda. Everybody knows who she is. The Grounders were pretty nuanced in which members of Skaikru they took out when they crossed the blockade. They only shot Pike's men, leaving the ones who were obviously prisoners unharmed. That's a pretty discerning reaction considering they were justified in taking out all of them. Once again, it's evidence that it's the Grounders in this season responding with nuance to their enemy. It's Skaikru who are all like, "Grounders Bad!"

 

The warriors on the blockade let Wanheda pass so she could get back home. Don't really have a problem with that.

 

As for the horse - it's allergic to radioactive butterflies. No clue.


Wow, looking around online you'd think that Murphy's final scene implied that he got lucky rather than one that explicitly showed a man about to be turned into a sex slave and raped.  I'm almost shocked that this is surprising to me.  But seriously, how that scene could be twisted into something other than rape is just unthinkable.  

 

The thing that bothers me about this is the implication that desire is consent. So he's clearly attracted to her. But he still said no. And she responded to that by threatening him with death. A man in chains. It's like the whole "Yes I went home with him but then I changed my mind" thing. You're allowed to say no. And if the other person doesn't take no for an answer then that is rape. Whether you were considering it before the 'no' doesn't frigging matter.

 

Yes, after your 'no' the other person is within their rights to try to change your mind through seduction. You know what isn't seduction? Tying somebody up and threatening them with death.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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I guess I'm just unclear as to what the grounders think of Clarke. The blockade was set up with a kill order to enforce it. Clarke had to leave Polis before dusk to ensure they wouldn't be caught on the wrong side of the line 5 clicks out from Arkadia and thus subject to the kill order. Ontari's pseudo heda, but hasn't ascended, so she sends Roan after her since she stole the Flame. All the ambassadors don't seem to be impressed by Clarke especially since her people are shits and the clans are in a holding pattern around Arkadia. I guess I'm just amazed that they'd still be like: "Oh, Wanheda, on your way to Arkadia? Proceed."

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I can't help but notice the hilarity of Bellamy basically handing out Octavia to Pike before the latter had promised to spare her. And that promise included the proviso that she shouldn't step out of line which would never happened anyway. So basically the supposedly ruthless leader who does everything for his people is more than fine with nepotism (not just in the case of Bellamy but Hannah too), while the guy supposedly so devoted to his sister has been either abandoning her or help capture her over and over in the past several episodes. Consistent characterization for the win!

 

 

Yes, after your 'no' the other person is within their rights to try to change your mind through seduction. You know what isn't seduction? Tying somebody up and threatening them with death.

 

Switch the genders of Murphy and Ontari and very few people would say it was anything but rape. I mean, there are still people who try to use disgusting arguments like "she enjoyed it" and "she was attracted to him anyway" when it comes to female characters being (possibly) raped but they tend to get shot down much more easily than if the character in question is male.

 

 

Wow, looking around online you'd think that Murphy's final scene implied that he got lucky rather than one that explicitly showed a man about to be turned into a sex slave and raped.  I'm almost shocked that this is surprising to me.  But seriously, how that scene could be twisted into something other than rape is just unthinkable.

 

On The 100 subreddit posters are seriously saying the only reason people think it's rape is because they are pissed by Lexa's death and are looking for things to blame the writers for. *facepalm*

 

 

Thanks. You're probably right. It just didn't make sense that Titus constantly referred to the Flame "choosing" the next Heda.

 

Nothing about the Conclave and choosing the Heda makes sense. Literally nothing.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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I think they dubbed Allie's voice over Morgan's voice, but she did a good job at Allie's mannerisms. It was downright creepy. That poor girl. What injury hasn't she had?  It's kind of funny that Whittle thinks he was bullied off the show when Raven is repeatedly getting tortured and injured. What's Rothenberg's twisted obsession with making her suffer?

 

Bellamy is so annoying this season. Really, they did such a good job at making his character likeable in late season 1 and in season 2 and now I'm back to hating him. I even hate how Bob Morley is playing him. He has become so sullen and one-note. His sudden change of conscience in this episode also came out of nowhere? Just because he was worried for Octavia? Like he wasn't before?

 

I was surprised that the Pike storyline took such a quick turn. We'll see what Ontari does with him. She might just keep him alive so she has a reason to slaughter Skaikru.

 

I like the twisted Ontari/Murphy stuff. Murphy has become the show's secret weapon with all the snark. It's refreshing to have someone comment on all the craziness with much-appreciated sarcasm. When Ontari squeezed the ambassador's eyes out, I was reminded of Buffy yet again when Caleb did it to Xander. Not quite the same, since the character this was happening to wasn't major, but I think it's still sort of a homage. 

 

Murphy's mother is THE WORST.

 

It was nice seeing Jasper be useful and likeable again.

 

The mind control shit is really scary.

All in all - this was a good episode. I rolled my eyes much less than in previous weeks.

MONTYS mom is the worst lol

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On The 100 subreddit posters are seriously saying the only reason people think it's rape is because they are pissed by Lexa's death and are looking for things to blame the writers for. *facepalm*

 

Yeah, serious *facepalm*.  That doesn't even make sense.  It's not like the dialogue in the rape scene is different if one isn't upset about Lexa's death.  

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Ugh. Congratulations, Ontari, it took you just three episodes to leap ahead of Pike as my least favorite character in the show. Killing kids, lying to the Grounders, not having a clue about how to lead other than "stab people," going on and on about how she deserved this commander thing, like, Ontari, the other kids were also training for this, thanks, chaining up the one guy who was helping her and then forcing him to have sex with her even after he explained there was someone else in his life. (And speaking as someone who isn't particularly pissed about Lexa's death, yeah, if you put someone in chains and tell that person you will kill him if he doesn't sleep with you, it's not exactly the most consensual situation ever.)  

 

Which meant that for once this season I liked the Arkadia story better than the Polis crap, even if, like everyone else, I'm at a complete loss to explain why security/betrayal obsessed Pike failed to notice that most of his subjects were turning into zombies.  Really, Pike - not only do you manage to completely screwup the tentative Grounder/Skaicrew relationship, but you don't notice that most of the people in Arcadia can't remember critically important things anymore? But I did like the bit where Abby had to chose between saving her own memories/soul and keeping Raven alive - the exact sort of ethical dilemma The 100 used to focus on before it went to "Is it right to go back on several episodes of character development so that we can slaughter 300 people and ensure that these two groups really won't like each other in order to make the audience wonder if they will be able to gang up together against the real threat, ALIE?" Sigh.

 

Best moment of the episode: Jasper yelling at Clarke that really, they had more important plots to worry about just now.  But what happened to Clarke's horse?  Was she afraid that the Arkadians would eat it? And why didn't the zombies follow Jasper in their own vehicle? They have more than one truck, right? And Pike's group set out on foot.

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Well, i also dont consider Murphy scene as rape. He was quite clearly willing, he even said it sarcastically "things i do  to survive". He will have no physical or mental trauma from that for sure. I think to call it rape sort of bagatelize suffering of real rape victims. I think Americans are way too quick to label everything that is not perfectly politically correct sexual encounter as rape. I dont think it will be a topic of discussion when its air in Europe.

 

Specially in this case, we are talking about characters of Murphy and Ontari. Murphy forced Charlotte to suicide, murdered few other people from his camp and is quite willing to help Ontari to became Heda even though she clearly stated that she intend to wipe all of his people out. He get to have sex with her as reward and i should feel sorry for him and pretend that he is any sort of victim? Nope.

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I don't feel sorry for Murphy in the slightest (I think he should have been killed off long ago, actually), doesn't mean I don't interpret the scene in question as depiction of rape. If you interpret the scene as him being a willing participant, then sure, it's not a rape. If you interpret it as him being coerced into sex then yes, it's rape, regardless if he ends up being traumatized by it or not. Nobody is saying "he was a willing participant but it's rape nevertheless because political correctness".

 

 

But I did like the bit where Abby had to chose between saving her own memories/soul and keeping Raven alive - the exact sort of ethical dilemma The 100 used to focus on before it went to "Is it right to go back on several episodes of character development so that we can slaughter 300 people and ensure that these two groups really won't like each other in order to make the audience wonder if they will be able to gang up together against the real threat, ALIE?" Sigh.

 

What I don't understand is why they didn't simply force Abby to swallow the pill. Still, it was one of the few scenes in the episodes that didn''t leave me either cold or disgusted.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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Well, i also dont consider Murphy scene as rape. He was quite clearly willing, he even said it sarcastically "things i do to survive".

Desire and being attracted to someone does not equal consent. Murphy was chained up, said no, said he was with someone else, and Ontari threatened him with violence. Regardless of whether he's an unsympathetic character, regardless of whether he resisted physically, what happened to Murphy WAS rape. She's in a position of power over him. How could he have actually physically resisted without getting hurt or killed? That takes away consent. Being unable to object due to the threat of physical violence is rape.

Edited by Kate213
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Well, i also dont consider Murphy scene as rape. He was quite clearly willing, he even said it sarcastically "things i do  to survive". He will have no physical or mental trauma from that for sure. I think to call it rape sort of bagatelize suffering of real rape victims. I think Americans are way too quick to label everything that is not perfectly politically correct sexual encounter as rape. I dont think it will be a topic of discussion when its air in Europe.

 

Raises hand. Rape survivor here.  It's disgusting to me that anyone would claim this isn't 'real rape'.  There was no consent, ergo it's rape.  Murphy making sarcastic quips about how his survival is directly tied to him having sex with Ontari doesn't make it consent.  Desire doesn't make it consent.  Being an asshole character doesn't make it consent.  Consent is consent.  

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Kate213, on 09 Apr 2016 - 5:48 PM, said:

Desire and being attracted to someone does not equal consent. Murphy was chained up, said no, said he was with someone else, and Ontari threatened him with violence. Regardless of whether he's an unsympathetic character, regardless of whether he resisted physically, what happened to Murphy WAS rape. She's in a position of power over him. How could he have actually physically resisted without getting hurt or killed? That takes away consent. Being unable to object due to the threat of physical violence is rape.

If he wanted to have sex with her its not rape, since its not against his will. He never said no, he just said "but i have a girlfriend" and than he just went towards Ontari to have sex with her anyway. Its true it would be dangerous for him to say no, but luckily for him, he wanted to have sex with her.  Atleast that was my reading of the scene, he was not scared, he just tried to be a good guy loyal to Emori for few seconds before he used Ontari´s threats/seduction as excuse to not be. Only he (and obviously writers) know for sure if it was really against his will or not, but why do i have a feeling you will claim he was raped regardless what Murphy himself think about it.

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Murphy was also making sarcastic quips when Titus was torturing him, I guess that must mean he enjoys being tortured.

 

 

He never said no,

 

He said "There's something else, okay, I'm sorry", so yes, he didn't say "no" per se, but still he most clearly refused Ontari's invitation to have sex. Technically it is possible he changed his mind a few seconds later but even if he did so, the threat of being punished or even killed for continuing to refuse surely played a non-insignificant role. He was already a captive, I don't see why he would need to rationalise to himself cheating to Emory by mentioning her existence to Ontari and having her threaten him overtly. I don't like Murphy but he is a survivor, why would he play coy with someone as unhinged as Ontari if he actually wanted to have sex with her there and then? For all he knew, she might have been pissed enough by his initial rejection to lop his head off. The implied threat was more than obvious, plus Murphy isn't exactly virtuous enough to care about cheating when his life might be in danger.

 

 

...and than he just went towards Ontari to have sex with her anyway

 

He was pulled towards Ontari. You make it sound as if he could have left the room but didn't.

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I picked up Netflix for Daredevil and decided to binge watch this show over the last month because I had heard good things about it.

 

The first season didn't grab me until the last three or four episodes. But at that point it became really good TV. The second season was even better because the writers managed to put seemingly every character in a believable Prisoner's Dilemma where it made sense for them to not cooperate even though we could see that it was headed towards a situation were everyone was going to be left worse off.

 

Now it's just a bunch of miserable people treating each other miserably and making everything even more miserable.

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he just said "but i have a girlfriend" and than he just went towards Ontari to have sex with her anyway. 

 

 

He may not have literally said, "No" but he clearly refused her invitation of sex and he was her chained up captive.  He was pulled toward her, he didn't happily go running into her arms.  If the genders of Murphy and Ontari were switched, and a male Grounder commander had a young female chained up, I doubt very many would think of this as anything other than rape.  It should be no different here, just because Murphy is a man (also a teenager, most likely under the age of 18 considering the timeline of this show and that the original 100 were all (except Bellamy and Raven) under 18).  

 

Lack of consent does not have to be expressly stated, it can be implied (i.e if you're afraid to object because the perpetrator threatened you with serious physical injury).  He didn't have any other choice but to have sex with her because if he refused, he would be hurt or killed.   It doesn't seem that the show really intended it to be rape but nevertheless, the circumstances make it one.  

 

The "he's a dude and she's hot" argument against it being rape is a dangerous and ignorant message for this show to perpetuate, although lately they really seem to be doubling down on the "all press is good press" attitude to PR.

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So basically the supposedly ruthless leader who does everything for his people is more than fine with nepotism (not just in the case of Bellamy but Hannah too), while the guy supposedly so devoted to his sister has been either abandoning her or help capture her over and over in the past several episodes. Consistent characterization for the win!

Had the same WTF reaction. Pike was being described offscreen as a moral man. Even if you agree, that goes right out the window right then and there. Especially when Pike makes a point to assure Lincoln that his people will be taken care of, because you know, Pike's a man of his word--then in the next episode he's deciding which traitors should live or die. Apparently the 'Exodus Charter' not only grants Pike leeway in deciding what the sentencing for traitors should be but also allows for nepotism whenever the hell you want.

Edited by Solace247
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How many times did Kane say "the penalty for this is death/lashing/whatever" but "you're too valuable to kill"? The Exodus Charter is a giant "do whatever the fuck you want" for the new Chancellor. And Pike, for all his one-note ranting, was well aware he needed Bellamy on side. There's no way he'd kill his sister - at least not until his power base was consolidated. That's the real reason he wanted to kill Kane, because Kane was a threat. I just wish that Bellamy's loyalty had extended to Lincoln (as it would have if they didn't cut his character to shreds to make this plotline work). As it is, it stretches credulity for him to say "My sister, my responsibility" now when he helped to lock Lincoln up in the first place and when it was Kane's death he saw as a step too far.

Edited by AudienceofOne
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And when he didn't seem to give a shit that his sister was bound, gagged, and MIA this last week or however long. I get a kick out of the fact that apparently the Exodus Charter also apparently abolishes any semblance of a council once on earth?!

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I am actually trying to stay with this show.  I never do that.  I care about Clarke's journey (even though we get stretches where she is not seen; her absence from Arkadia makes me care even less about what's going on there), and I used to care about Bellamy, but am done w/ that character (I sincerely hope Bob Morley can find a good role in whatever is his next gig).  Raven is always intriguing to me, but I am growing tired of the torture porn when it comes to her.  I mean, enough is enough.  Rothenberg has some weird fetish when it comes to her.

 

This Allie/AI plot is losing me.  It just takes pales in comparison to the human interactions we used to get, IMO.  I'll ride it out through the season finale, but as others have stated, unless the nightblood that Clarke is trying to find is beyond awesome as a character, I can't see me spending my time on this show next season.

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Up until this season, this was my favourite show. I don't think I can claim that any longer. I realize I'm probably just bitter from how storylines have played out and characters have been written, but it's hard to enjoy fully because too many plot lines and characters both old and new frustrate me continually. Unfortunately, I think most of them are sticking around until next season. If you're going to kill off likeable characters can you at least balance it out by killing unpleasant characters--I would even take a 2:1 ratio. They've pretty much only killed off the Ice Queen in that category and some would argue it was too soon.

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How many times did Kane say "the penalty for this is death/lashing/whatever" but "you're too valuable to kill"?

 

Well, I for one didn't like when he or Abby did it, either. The writers can't seem to make up their mind if the the leaders of the Arkadians are supposed to be ruthless or hilariously willing to give people a second chances, so they do whatever is convenient for the plot.

 

 

And Pike, for all his one-note ranting, was well aware he needed Bellamy on side. There's no way he'd kill his sister - at least not until his power base was consolidated.

 

But he had just captured all the opposition leaders. How much more consolidated could his power get? More importantly, this was never going to work. Octavia was never going to abandon her desire to cut Pike into a million pieces, so this was basically a writer's saving throw -  to make it seem that Bellamy was still devoted to Octavia, even after she had pummeled her, knowing all along that this would be completely irrelevant because Pike was about to get captured.

Edited by Jack Shaftoe
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Ontari didn't FORCE Murphy to have sex with her... We saw him peekin in e09 he wanted to do "the things he does to survive" bro kept looking as she was undressing... I'd assume she likes that BDSM crap... She killed the other nightbloods in their sleep like the freak she is... He wanted it. He enjoyed it. He consented. Hence "the things he does"
Plus Clarke is so selfish with her plot line hahaha jasper STFU, lincolns dead, get in or we're dead

Edited by Stinger97 · Reason: Removed language telling others to stop having particular opinions.

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Not surprisingly, rape is a super sensitive topic for a lot of folks. Please remember that when posting about it and this episode. Thanks.

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No worries. I completely understand. I apologize if I came off insensitive but as I said he did consent.

No, he did not.  Looking at someone isn't consent.  Becoming aroused isn't consent.  The lack of a knife isn't consent.  This isn't very complicated.  I understand it can be confusing for people who don't understand the very simple definition of rape.  After all, the show made the horrible decision of filming the scene in a way that completely conflicted with the dialogue.  They made it look and sound like some sort of fun sex game. But it actually wasn't.  Murphy didn't want to have sex with her and only agreed to because he wanted to survive.  A preference to remain alive isn't fucking consent.  

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