S06.E15: Melissa's Announcement

[Tasya]

Abby hasn't been Maddie and Mackenzie's manager for a long while now. She pretended to be for the show but even before the Sia thing, Maddie at the least was already repped by WME.

[Odelia]

 

I did actually feel bad for Abby tonite. She's lost a lot throughout the years - almost her studio, her dog, her mom, wonderful dancers and is now involved in the lawsuit. Melissa was so fake when telling Abby and I think Abby finally got it - Melissa's being your friend was all pretend. Yes Abby wanted Maddie to be a star and I'm sure she'd never hold her back - but Melissa's comment about her lawyer telling her not to say anything was the most telling - it's all about Melissa. And Maddie's blank stare when Abby was upset and crying - she seems to have become as cold as Melissa.

Yeah, also when Abby took Maddie to dinner again, Maddie was blank the whole time. Abby actually cared about Maddie and Kenzie so it's pretty sad they're acting like that. I also think Kenzie already knew they were leaving, she has been in the background in past episodes when mums were speculating and looked like she knew.

 

I agree that it's so strange how Kalani turned out so well, but I'm wondering how much of a part Kira played in raising her.

[cali1981]

Maddie and Kalani's duet was lovely but I have a question for all of you who have been dancers or have kids who are dancers.  Kalani is a gorgeous girl and clearly a wonderful dancer but even watching the duet, I kept wondering about her future. I specifically thought about many of the kids who are only 18 and have been on So You Think You Can Dance and how advanced their technical skills and vocabularies are and, as good as Kalani is, I'm not seeing her at that level in a few years without a lot of very intensive training in multiple genres of dance. So what say those of you whose judgements I defer to?

[Lastwaltz]

Did this moron really tell the other moms about her plans to leave before she told her daughter?  I just can't Melissa....I just can't.

And with a smile on her face. What a horrible woman.

[MyFavShows]

There are drug dealers and violent criminals who get out of going to prison and instead get probation. As much of a monster that some people think Abby is, it really would be messed up if she ends up serving time over some financial fraud thing. They should just force her to pay what she owes, along w/ some hefty fines and penalties, and then give her probation.

[Clemgo3165]

If you can't serve the time, don't commit the crime. Since unethical financial doings got us into the economic mess we've been in the last 8 years, I have absolutely no sympathy for anyone who cheats and get caught. 

[Absolom]

I don't think she owes the creditors anything as I think the judge caught the potential fraud before he disposed of the case.  She could be fined or have a prison sentence or both.  Drug dealers are a local issue while what Abby did was federal.  She's in a completely different world from city and county court. 

[RazzleberryPie]

It's going to be great when Maddie drops Melissa for a better manager, and then Mak ignores Melissa bc she can.

[leighroda]

Martha Stewart went to jail for financial crimes too though, maybe it was more to make an example or prove a point, but Abby should be careful she could be the next example.

[RCharter]

Martha Stewart went to jail for financial crimes too though, maybe it was more to make an example or prove a point, but Abby should be careful she could be the next example.

I felt like the problem with M. Stewart was that she was violating public securities laws.  And yes, they wanted to make an example of her but that directly tied in to all the other fraud going on at the time....insider trading, short selling stock based on inside information, etc, etc.  From what it sounds like, in Abby's case, she hid money to avoid paying taxes....which is still very, very wrong, but its not in the same vein as Martha Stewart/Bernie Madoff/Enron.

[RCharter]

Abby got in trouble for lying to the feds about her assets. Martha got in trouble for lying to the feds during a proffer session; she probably would not have gone to jail had she not done that. She didn't go to jail because of the insider trading but for lying to the feds. The insider trading wasn't substantively proven...furthermore, there was less money at issue in Martha's case (around 58K) than there is in Abby's (around 700k, IIRC).

According to this article, Martha Stewart was convicted of securities fraud/insider trading.  

 

http://biography.yourdictionary.com/articles/why-did-martha-stewart-go-to-jail.html

 

but perhaps you have a better source?

Edited April 15, 2016 by RCharter

[leighroda]

I didn't mean to veer off topic that much, i don't know many specifics of either case, my point was that Abby may not be as untouchable as she seems to think.

[RCharter]

^^from the article you linked above

 

"Defendants Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic were charged in Superseding Indictment S1 03 Cr. 717 with offenses that arose from their communications to government investigators who were probing trading activity of ImClone Systems, Inc. ("ImClone") stock on December 27, 2001, just ahead of the company's public announcement that its lead pharmaceutical product would not receive government approval. Count One charged that Defendants conspired to obstruct justice, make false statements and commit perjury in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371; ....; and Count Nine charged Stewart with securities fraud in violation of 15 U.S.C. §§ 78j(b), 78ff and 17 C.F.R. § 240.10b-5."

She was not prosecuted for the underlying insider trading allegation but for lying about it.

https://casetext.com/case/us-v-stewart-103(the case upholding her conviction). The "agency proceeding" refers to the SEC investigation.

from the article you linked above

 

"Defendants Martha Stewart and Peter Bacanovic were charged in Superseding Indictment S1 03 Cr. 717 with offenses that arose from their communications to government investigators who were probing trading activity of ImClone Systems, Inc. ("ImClone") stock on December 27, 2001, just ahead of the company's public announcement that its lead pharmaceutical product would not receive government approval. Count One charged that Defendants conspired to obstruct justice, make false statements and commit perjury in violation of 18 U.S.C. § 371; ....; and Count Nine charged Stewart with securities fraud in violation of 15 U.S.C. §§ 78j(b), 78ff and 17 C.F.R. § 240.10b-5."

 

She was acquitted by the District Court for count nine, but was still prosecuted for it by the SEC.  Further, the charges of lying to a federal agency all stemmed from the securities fraud, not from simply hiding private funds.

[RCharter]

I didn't mean to veer off topic that much, i don't know many specifics of either case, my point was that Abby may not be as untouchable as she seems to think

I think Abby is touchable, but I just don't see why the government would put forward an effort to jail her at this point.  When you're talking about a publicly traded security I think its a much bigger deal because those companies are huge, and its where so many Americans put their money.  I think the idea is when you have a system where so many Americans invest their money, its important to ensure a level playing field, as much as possible so that people trust the system enough to invest their money.

 

In just one case, worth $45,000 it looks like next to nothing, but if you allowed a people to slide on a small amount, the next person might want to slide on a larger amount and it erodes the public trust.  And it sounds like overall, the management of the company told a few stockbrokers about the inside tip, and then those people were able to get a lot of rich/powerful people out of the stock....which is fundamentally unfair.  

 

But in Abby's case, it really doesn't have anything to do with something as fundamentally important as publicly traded stocks.  She tried to hide some money and failed at it.....is it a bad thing to do, yes -- but so bad that she can't hammer out a deal that keeps her out of jail and just requires her to pay back the money?  I don't think its quite that serious.

[RCharter]

Thats not an article, that is a court decision and you are quoting the case history but not the decision. Look at the bottom towards conclusion. Charges are not the same as convictions. She was not convicted of securities fraud. I didn't say she hid funds. Martha was trying to avoid a loss of around 60K. Abby lied about her assets. The charges Martha faced did stem from the securities fraud investigation and her subsequent lies to the SEC investigators. However, she was not convicted of securities fraud even though she may have been charged with it.

I don't know how to make it clearer but this is the dance moms thread, not the Martha Stewart thread. I don't want to upset the mod or annoy the other posters, lol.

The larger point is, don't lie to the government because you'll end up in more trouble than you were in to begin with. I think Abby's attorneys are delaying the case for as long as possible because she's in trouble. I also think that Abby will keep filming for as long as she can. Her Pittsburgh studio lost a ton of instructors and her LA studio is said to be empty most of the time. She needs money; attorneys are expensive, lol.

However, charges are what you are actually prosecuted by the government for.  And I'm aware that you are quoting the court of appeals decision.  No one said M. Stewart attempted to hide funds, although I'm under the impression that is what Abby did.  My point...which I also don't believe I could have been more clear about is that a lie in the context of securities fraud is a much bigger deal than a lie in the context of hiding private funds.  So, to compare Abby to Martha Stewart is like comparing apples and oranges, and is nonsensical.

Edited April 15, 2016 by RCharter

[RCharter]

Wasn't comparing. Was attempting to clarify. I can't help you to understand it seems, and I'm over trying to clarify. Let's agree to disagree. I'm not responding to posts about Martha anymore, lol.

I understand your point and I don't think it makes any sense, since they are two completely different situations.  I'm not sure your reasoning is as mysterious as you think, it is just, as I said, I find it nonsensical.

Edited April 15, 2016 by RCharter

[OnceSane]

Martha Stewart is off-topic for this thread, as is Abby's court case. Stick to discussing the episode, please. If you want to talk about Abby's legal woes,.take it to her thread.

[Jax7917]

Agreed about the whole Melissa telling Mackenzie at the same time as the other girls was....terrible parenting, however I'm pretty sure that was staged. Not only because all reality tv is, but also because mackenzie didn't really look all too shocked or upset to me. I honestly think Mackenzie can either stay on the show or leave. I don't think she cares either way. At this point, she knows her sister is her mothers favorite and she knows her career isn't taking off like Maddie's is. I also agree that Maddie's facial expressions throughtout the entire season are just very stoic and over the show. I remember in earlier seasons Maddie was always so emotional when it came to Abby and kissed up to her all the time. Now it's obvious that she was a better actress than we thought, because at this point she can't even pretend to shed a tear over leaving the team. Same with Melissa. Wasn't she Abby's "best friend" for years? She watched her dog all the time , was good friends with Abby's mother, and made the audience aware of how close her and Abby were in every scene? Now Melissa is just like.. okay bye. I mean I can't blame her for kissing up and wanting to get her child further, but wow what a phony baloney. Melissa's attitude toward Abby changed dramatically in the last season.

[Absolom]

I'm pretty sure Mack and Abby both knew in advance what was going down with Melissa and the kids leaving the studio.  Mack probably had a blank reaction because she'd known for quite some time.

Edited April 15, 2016 by Absolom

[Lemons]

. Her Pittsburgh studio lost a ton of instructors and her LA studio is said to be empty most of the time.

 

It appears that the LA Studio is really just a TV Studio for the show.  It's a lot easer for TV shows to be filmed in LA than have everyone go to another state.  And I don't know a studio can continue to do well when the owner left the state. 

[leighroda]

Agreed even Mackenzie asking what was going on seemed kinda fake to me

[Odelia]

Agreed about the whole Melissa telling Mackenzie at the same time as the other girls was....terrible parenting, however I'm pretty sure that was staged. Not only because all reality tv is, but also because mackenzie didn't really look all too shocked or upset to me. I honestly think Mackenzie can either stay on the show or leave. I don't think she cares either way. At this point, she knows her sister is her mothers favorite and she knows her career isn't taking off like Maddie's is. I also agree that Maddie's facial expressions throughtout the entire season are just very stoic and over the show. I remember in earlier seasons Maddie was always so emotional when it came to Abby and kissed up to her all the time. Now it's obvious that she was a better actress than we thought, because at this point she can't even pretend to shed a tear over leaving the team. Same with Melissa. Wasn't she Abby's "best friend" for years? She watched her dog all the time , was good friends with Abby's mother, and made the audience aware of how close her and Abby were in every scene? Now Melissa is just like.. okay bye. I mean I can't blame her for kissing up and wanting to get her child further, but wow what a phony baloney. Melissa's attitude toward Abby changed dramatically in the last season.

I don't think Maddie was acting as an 8 year old, she probably really did want Abby's approval and love back then, but now she's kind of acting above that :(

[Tasya]

The LA studio seems to host a lot of classes. I don't think it's empty at all. I don't know that they have a viable competition team yet, but they certainly are pulling in a lot of students. Look at youtube; there are tons of videos of the LA kids. 

 

I think that Mackenzie and Abby both knew already about the girls leaving. I believe that there was a behind the scenes thing between all of the involved parties. In all likelihood, the Ziegler girls real agent (hint it's not Abby or Melissa) met with Collins and pulled the plug on their continued appearance. Those girls are starting to get business from a lot of well known companies. Those companies will not want to be overly associated with Dance Moms. It's one thing to have Maddie/Mack be the face or spokesperson for something and it's an entire different thing to be seen as being a part of the show. That's why I think it was all staged. Just remember that this episode was filmed months ago, however Abby has still been raving over Maddie in the news and on Twitter. How mad could she have been with the family in that case? 

[hellohoping]

The lack of emotion from Maddie could also be because she's still taking classes at ALDC LA. She's not left Abby... just the elite team and television show. She seems to be there, at the studio, regularly. Also I've always thought she was quite a poised kid - not one to show much emotional in any situation.

[Tasya]

Not only is she still taking class at ALDC LA she's still competing with ALDC PA. They left the show; that's all, so I think that accounts for the lack of emotion. Why cry and carry on when you know that you're absolutely going to still see the same people as much as ever, you just won't be filming it. The only people she'll likely not see as much will be Kalani and maybe Brynn, since they have their own "real" studios. However Brynn has already been taken over by Abby, she alone accompanied Abby on her latest tour. 

[RazzleberryPie]

The lack of emotion from Maddie could also be because she's still taking classes at ALDC LA. She's not left Abby... just the elite team and television show. She seems to be there, at the studio, regularly. Also I've always thought she was quite a poised kid - not one to show much emotional in any situation.

Maddie always has shown a lack of emotion toward the other girls in my opinion. Not feeling like she has any attachment or loyalty will really help her climb, but not win any true friends. I always thought it was quite odd that she really never seemed embarrassed or guilty during the moments when Abby showed really blatant favoritism. 

[Chewy101]

Melissa has become Kate Gosselin. She started out as the mother who was all about the kids. Now she and her extensions and fake eye lashes have gotten too attached to the fame bug.