S01.E07: All the Livelong Day

[formerlyfreedom]

Flashbacks shows Adam's return to Red Pines set against the backdrop of Willa's secrets and lies; what Adam went through in captivity; and Hank's state of mind while incarcerated. In other events, John drops a bombshell on Claire.

 

 

 

 

[truthaboutluv]

I know many are critical of this show but I'll be honest, it's my favorite Sunday night show and I genuinely look forward to where it's going. I really enjoyed this episode even though there were many parts that made me very sad for all involved. I'm glad there was a viewer discretion warning at the start of the episode because even if I've never been abducted or abused and personally known anyone who was abducted, the scenes of Adam and Ben at the start of the episode were really hard to watch, especially when they got older and Adam clearly started breaking down.

 

And my heart broke when he yelled at Ben that the sick fuck was not their friend and referenced what he came there to do to them. Ben was heartbreaking. I said from the start of the season that whether or not he was Adam, that kid had clearly been through something very horrific. I will say he was a little terrifying when yelling at Willa but I'm not surprised he wants so badly to hold onto this lie. Again the kid has clearly been through some really fucked up things and he probably needs a lot of therapy.

 

Hell I even felt a little sorry for Willa. Yes she's clearly not all there but when she was imagining all the ways their life would have been different had Adam not disappeared, my heart broke a little for her. Yes that was still a completely batshit crazy idea, to make Ben impersonate Adam, but to her credit she did try to call it off. It's just that unfortunately for her she'd already put the idea in the mind of a kid who has no one and only just wants a family. 

 

I can see how Ben was the abductor's first capture, and likely a very easy one too - no family, so I'm guessing he was probably homeless or in some poorly ran foster care but basically a person no one would notice was missing. It was a test run for him to later be more bold and kidnap someone like Adam. So I'm sure I'm not the only who's going to think it, but I don't believe Adam's dead. I think it's pretty obvious based on the fact that they didn't show him dying and instead the man just took him away and told Ben he was dead.  

 

For such a strong episode, I found the ending a little blah. So Ben has some of the money Willa gave him stashed away in the motel room...okay. I guess it may tie into the key he left in the place where he'd been help captive and writing down the code but if the twist is that he's working with the abductor, I don't really see it only because tonight we saw him escape and saw proof that he really was being held captive all these years. I guess it's entirely possible he's Stockholmed and misses his abuser but I can't imagine why the guy would want access to the family. His perversion just seems to be kidnapping and abusing young boys. 

 

Best part of the episode...no annoying "journalist" girl. Please keep it that way. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[KaveDweller]

The explanation about how Ben ended up being Adam actually makes sense, at least as much sense as something like that could make. I feel really bad for Claire, to have thought her son was back only to have the rug pulled out from under her again.

 

Willa seemed much more stable in this episode too.

 

I'm glad they didn't reveal that Hank was actually involved, that would have felt cheap. Does anyone know if something like this happened in real life, could Hank be sent back to prison? Or would releasing him have the same impact as double jeopardy?

[Sarcastica]

This is THE most effed up family ever.

 

I'm really enjoying this show. 

[molshoop]

I think this has been mentioned before, but if anyone who likes this show gets the chance, watch the British series Thirteen.

It's a 5 episode limited series and it's focus is on the abducted girl. It's excellent.

 

I think this show would have been better without the political subplot. When you have 12 episodes to fill and hope for

a second season, you can add in a lot of plot twists. The down side is destroying the believability of the show and adding

nonsense like the affair between the father and the policewoman to fill time.

 

I also think it is improbable, although not impossible for a young child to go missing and no one caring or reporting it.

There is federal legislation requiring the immediate reporting of people under 18 who are missing to law enforcement.

[molshoop]

 

Or would releasing him have the same impact as double jeopardy?

 

                  You can't be tried twice for the same crime unless it's Federal

                  and there are special circumstances.

[lucindabelle]

I hated willa for her dumb idea and then her idea of sending friendless Ben away. POLICE anyone? No amount of pain or trauma justifies what she did and when the law finds out she ought to be arrested for obstructing jsutice.

[Madding crowd]

This was a really sad episode. As the mother of a teen boy, it was hard to watch how downtrodden the boys were and how Ben tried to lighten the mood by pretending. It just goes to show that people have different ways of coping. I also felt really sad if it's true that Ben has no family, I assume we will find out more about that. I still find it hard to believe Willa would actually think that having a fake Adam would do anything but make things worse. It had to come out sometime.

 

Someone was talking to me during the parts they showed Hank (i saw him put the plastic bag on his head). DId he have something to do with Adam's kidnapping?  I really hope for some kind of happy ending for Ben and for Pock mark man to have death or life in jail.

[thuganomics85]

Credit to the show, I actually liked the twist that while Willa did come up with the idea that Ben should impersonate Adam, she had a change of heart and tried to send Ben away, only for Ben to just do it on his own.  It help explains why Willa was just as shocked at the others in the pilot; not because she's a great actress, but she truly didn't think "Adam" was coming back.  The fact that she even came up with the idea is still nutty as hell, but I do think that one scene were she suddenly become Teenage Willa, was showing that she probably is still that teen deep down inside, and will never get over how Adam was kidnapped under her watch.

 

The flashbacks of Ben and Adam living in the bunker was decent.  Them taking whatever lame food the kidnapper gave them and pretending it was different things like pizza, french toast, etc., was pretty sad.  So, it looks like Adam got sick and the kidnapper got rid of him.  Ben sure thinks he is dead, but since it happened off screen, I'm sure we are not done with Adam yet.

 

I'm wondering what importance Hank is going to be in all of this, since it seems less and less likely that he was involved in whatever happened to Adam.  I guess there is some kind of endgame for him.

 

Not surprised Claire ended up going along with the story at the end, because I think her need to be governor will always win out.  But I wonder if there will be any blowback over her meltdown and drinking in the park.  No surprise, Joan Allen was pretty great in those moments.

 

So, John didn't just cheat on Claire with cop lady, but seemed to always be sleeping around on tour.  Classic John!

 

I wonder if Danny actually did have a plan for some kind of app, or if he was just scamming money from his mom?

 

I guess the end with Ben showing he still has the money means he might end up trying to run away?

[mertensia]

I can see how Willa ended up the way she did what with all the pressure her mom put on her.

Those poor boys.

[Ina123]

If Adam was gone for 10 years then Ben was in there longer. How did he even know where to go? How to get there? Adam was 8. What 8 year old just tells this kid how to get to his house when he doesn't even know where he is?

 

And the big one, she hands him money and just leaves him at a bus station. Does he even know how to get a ticket? Does he know there is a bathroom on the bus? Does he know anything about big cities? Irresponsible, but she is irresponsible anyway just thinking up this.

 

Did I miss how the DNA was switched? Yes, I saw the hair in the ziploc but how did Ben do it or had Willa already done it? And how? 

[BooBear]

This was a really sad episode. As the mother of a teen boy, it was hard to watch how downtrodden the boys were and how Ben tried to lighten the mood by pretending. It just goes to show that people have different ways of coping. I also felt really sad if it's true that Ben has no family, I assume we will find out more about that. I still find it hard to believe Willa would actually think that having a fake Adam would do anything but make things worse. It had to come out sometime.

 

That was grimm, but, I feel like these last two episodes were the only ones ground in the real world.  I felt really bad for Ben and Willa this episode. But did I miss it? How did Ben fake the DNA test?

 

I don't think WIlla's idea was completely insane. I think she knew that if mom knew that Adam had died recently, and they had 10 plus years and didn't find him, and also. that he had been abused during that time, that would basically destroy her family.  I did think it was shocking that she would send Ben away without any friends after he had gotten so much attention from her.  That was a little cruel.

 

So what does Pockmark do?  Get boys for some as yet to be named child molester? I had thought somehow that would be hank but I am not sure how he could do that from jail. I don't think they referred to the "friend's" gender so... who knows.

 

There is no way the real Adam will not show up before the end. If I were mom I would set some trusted police find out for sure if Adam was dead.

[Ina123]

Also I liked the extra incentive that Ben had to try to get out. He knew that Pocky was going to grab another little boy. It reminded me of the case years ago when an abducted boy escaped after the captor brought home another little boy. The younger boy was then rescued. Sure would like to have an update.

 

The older boy had accepted his fate and stayed altho he had chances to leave (Stockholm Syndrome, I guess), but wasn't going to let it happen to the new little boy. The monster was a pizza delivery guy.

[KaveDweller]

You can't be tried twice for the same crime unless it's Federal

                  and there are special circumstances.

I know that.....but Hank was already found guilty of Adam's murder. They let him out because "Adam" was found alive, but I wasn't sure if they could later take that back somehow, without a new trial.

[kitlee625]

I may be in the minority here, but I think that real Adam is probably dead.  I bet that Pock Marked Guy killed him and buried his body in the woods when he supposedly took him to the hospital. Adam looked too sick to escape, and it doesn't seem like Pock Marked Guy has him stashed someplace new. And he couldn't really take him to the hospital, because that would raise way too many red flags, even if he took him as far away as possible.

 

I'm also not entirely sure how the DNA test was faked. The two possibilities I see are: a) Willa set it up so Ben could pass it before she sent him away. She could have planted the baggie of Ben's hair at the police station as "Adam's DNA sample." b) Ben took some of that money that Willa gave him to bribe someone at the DNA lab. B seems a little less likely because how would he know to do that, but I could see Willa switching out some police evidence.

Edited April 11, 2016 by kitlee625

[nara]

I hated willa for her dumb idea and then her idea of sending friendless Ben away. POLICE anyone? No amount of pain or trauma justifies what she did and when the law finds out she ought to be arrested for obstructing jsutice.

  

Her callous treatment of Ben made me angrier than did her idiotic plot. She could at least have helped him find family or get set up in school or a job.

Ben sure thinks he is dead, but since it happened off screen, I'm sure we are not done with Adam yet.

I wonder if Danny actually did have a plan for some kind of app, or if he was just scamming money from his mom?

  

Is it possible that Ben made contact with Danny and the money is for him? Maybe payment in exchange for what he knows about Adam? BTW can we PLEASE have more Danny in this show. It's so odd that he is such a minor character.

If Adam was gone for 10 years then Ben was in there longer. How did he even know where to go? How to get there? Adam was 8. What 8 year old just tells this kid how to get to his house when he doesn't even know where he is?

 

And the big one, she hands him money and just leaves him at a bus station. Does he even know how to get a ticket? Does he know there is a bathroom on the bus? Does he know anything about big cities? Irresponsible, but she is irresponsible anyway just thinking up this.

 

Did I miss how the DNA was switched? Yes, I saw the hair in the ziploc but how did Ben do it or had Willa already done it? And how?

 

It appears that Ben was walking and happened upon Red Pines, not that he was specifically looking for it.

I'm afraid the DNA testing may end up as a plot hole...

 

I may be in the minority here, but I think that real Adam is probably dead.  I bet that Pock Marked Guy killed him and buried his body in the woods when he supposedly took him to the hospital. Adam looked too sick to escape, and it doesn't seem like Pock Marked Guy has him stashed someplace new. And he couldn't really take him to the hospital, because that would raise way too many red flags, even if he took him as far away as possible.

Wouldn't both boys soon be too old to be of interest to Pockmark? He would likely have killed them soon anyway.

Btw, is this the first time a TV protagonist politician has been a Republican? All the ones I can think of were Democrats.

[lucindabelle]

She's a republican and clearly set up as a hypocrite so there's that.

I loathe willa for her using Ben like a tool, with no actual empathy. And for obstructing justice. I do thni that after 10 years of more in a hold his muscles should be more atrophied and he should be stunted not to mention rotting teeth but I'll give it a pass.

[Free]

I think this show would have been better without the political subplot. When you have 12 episodes to fill and hope for

a second season, you can add in a lot of plot twists. The down side is destroying the believability of the show and adding

nonsense like the affair between the father and the policewoman to fill time.

 

Exactly, it would've been better to streamline it as a shorter mini series and tighten up the writing.

[truthaboutluv]

If Adam was gone for 10 years then Ben was in there longer. How did he even know where to go? How to get there? Adam was 8. What 8 year old just tells this kid how to get to his house when he doesn't even know where he is?

 

As stated above, he was just walking and saw the Welcome to Red Pines sign with Claire's picture on it and I'm sure he knew she was Adam's mom, since as he informed Willa, Adam talked about them all the time. He knew all their names. It looked like Ben was just walking aimlessly, looking confused. I believe in the Pilot, after we see him looking at the sign, he does get someone to stop for him, so that's likely how he got into the town and then to the house. I'm sure the Mayor's residence wasn't hard to find even after being abducted for over a decade. 

 

She's a republican and clearly set up as a hypocrite so there's that.

 

Well if it helps she's still not the worse politician on television. That's Frank Underwood and he's a Democrat. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[FineWashables]

I"m trying to tie last week's revelations into this week's revelations.  I keep coming back to the fact that Pockmark's wife is known to the police and that Pockmark placed the stuffed toy he got for their son in a brick cell.  So, I'm wondering if Ben isn't Mr and Mrs Pockmark's bio son, and Pockmark is kidnapping boys to be Ben's friends? Surely he couldn't have chloroformed Adam and stuffed him into the box in the back of the pickup in a public place in broad daylight without any assistance, and he was there with his wife. Only problem with my theory so far is that when he was working on the box, he concealed his soundproofing activities from his wife.

Edited April 11, 2016 by FineWashables

[racked]

I'm also not entirely sure how the DNA test was faked. The two possibilities I see are: a) Willa set it up so Ben could pass it before she sent him away. She could have planted the baggie of Ben's hair at the police station as "Adam's DNA sample." b) Ben took some of that money that Willa gave him to bribe someone at the DNA lab. B seems a little less likely because how would he know to do that, but I could see Willa switching out some police evidence.

 

Didn't the reporter say that the guy who ran the DNA test killed himself two days later? Or mysteriously died two days later? Something suspicious there, though I guess it could be a coincidence.

Btw, is this the first time a TV protagonist politician has been a Republican? All the ones I can think of were Democrats.

 

Isn't Fitz on Scandal a Republican? 

[JapMo]

Had mixed feelings about this episode. Liked the pace, there were a lot of beautiful shots of sunrise/sunsets, leaves, etc. But having gone the distance with this show, I'm disappointed it's about a women's political career and what she and her crazy daughter will do to stay on top.

- Can anyone explain the Viewer Discretion warnings during this episode? The only scene I thought was going to need the warning was when Hank put that bag over his head. I clearly thought he was going to pound it while reading some porn, but instead he actually tried to kill himself. To me that didn't warrant the warnings. If anyone has watched Shades of Blue, that show had a guy going down on another guy. There was little left to the imagination, and I don't believe they had viewer warnings throughout the show like this one did.

- Agree with another poster, why is there so little Danny? Zach Gilford is being wasted playing a character that is wasted all the time. We keep seeing how Willa has carried her guilt around for so many years...what about Danny? Yeah, he started drinking, but is that all there is to it? The other family members have all been fleshed out so much more. The writers need to show the downward slide of Danny. Surely he felt tremendous guilt too...he was the oldest.

- Could it be Ben wasn't really abducted but was there because he wanted to be? I know there were shackles, but if he was shut away for longer than 10 years, his mental growth was stunted. Hiding that money in a motel light socket was something I don't even know if a hardened criminal would think to do, but it didn't come from a 10 year old mind. Likewise being able to find his way to Adam's house. To me there was just something odd about his behavior with the real Adam...i.e. he didn't seem like he was that upset about being locked away like Adam was.

- Ina123, you mentioned a young abducted boy escaping in real life with a younger boy who had just been abducted by their captor...you said you wonder what happened there. I'm not sure if this is the incident you were talking about, but it did happen many years ago. It was also made into a very popular TV movie...I Know My Name is Stephen. Stephen Stayner was abducted for 7 years and when the pedophile who did it brought home another little boy. Knowing what he was going to do to the kid, Stephen brought him to the police station. Sadly, Stephen was killed in a motorcycle accident 7 years later, and his older brother was convicted of murdering 3 people many years after that. The little kid grew up to be a cop, but died (not in the line of duty) in his early thirties. This was so well publicized it probably isn't the story you were thinking about, but it's the only one that comes to mind for me.

[beaker73]

As stated above, he was just walking and saw the Welcome to Red Pines sign with Claire's picture on it and I'm sure he knew she was Adam's mom, since as he informed Willa, Adam talked about them all the time. He knew all their names. It looked like Ben was just walking aimlessly, looking confused. I believe in the Pilot, after we see him looking at the sign, he does get someone to stop for him, so that's likely how he got into the town and then to the house. I'm sure the Mayor's residence wasn't hard to find even after being abducted for over a decade. 

 

 

Well if it helps she's still not the worse politician on television. That's Frank Underwood and he's a Democrat. 

Adam was also wearing a campaign t-shirt with a picture of Claire when he was kidnapped, so I got the impression that Ben recognized her when he saw the sign. 

[Bobbin]

I suppose Hank's suicide attempt was what triggered the adult discretion warning. Themes can justify the warning, not just violence and language, etc. Of course, in reality, as soon as Hank passed out, he'd relax his grip on the bag and some air would get in.

It seems that Willa plucked some hair from Ben's head and later passed it off as Adam's for the DNA test. Easy peasy. I'm confused about the money, though. Didn't Willa only give Ben the money when she dumped him at the bus station? How could that be the same money in the motel light switch? Could it have been what Ben took from behind the brick in the bunker?

So many fans are still expecting Hank to be an axe murdering monster. He had child pornography on his computer, that's how he got on the sex offender list, not that he's ever hurt anyone. He even subjected himself to chemical castration. His so easily being framed for Adam's disappearance is the downside of publishing such lists.

Maybe I missed something, but it seemed that starving himself allowed Ben's wrist to slip through his "bracelet." If that morning in the motel room was Ben's first sunrise, he must have been held since he was very young.

There are still mysteries to unfold. But if this is another endless Twin Peaks or Lost, I'm out. I like to think I have a life.

[ari333]

Wow so Willa was told by Ben that Adam is dead. Did she know that Hank was not the one who killed Adam? Did she not care if the right person was brought to justice for Adam? Im confused. Iow, having fake Adam come back was the impetus that let Hank out of jail - which is fine if he didnt' do it and from what viewers have seen - he didn't, but Willa didnt' know that, did she?

[nara]

Isn't Fitz on Scandal a Republican?

You're right! Thanks.

[truthaboutluv]

Surely he couldn't have chloroformed Adam and stuffed him into the box in the back of the pickup in a public place in broad daylight without any assistance, and he was there with his wife.

 

I don't believe the wife was with the kidnapper at the rally. It seemed like they met up later at the Mexican restaurant, which judging by the scene showing that Nina had questioned him, seems likely that that was part of setting up his alibi. As for chloroforming Adam in broad daylight, I believe that was the point of showing him telling Adam he had a treat in his truck for the dog. Adam went off alone with him and my guess is once he had Adam in the van, and made sure no one was around, he chloroformed him and maybe drove off in a more secluded area to place him in the box. Trust me, I watch a lot of true crime shows and you'd be amazed the kind of crimes that happen in broad daylight.

 

This 18-year old was kidnapped in broad daylight, coming out of Target. When the parking lots are packed, someone can just park next to you, come up and hold a gun, threatening to shoot if you scream. I don't think that incident the guy had a gun but he caught her by surprise, slammed her head and basically shoved her in his car and drove off to a secluded place where he raped and killed her. And this happened in broad daylight, in a somewhat busy Target parking lot. Sometimes the busier a place is, the more dangerous it is because it's easy to get lost and distracted and no one's paying attention. 

 

- Can anyone explain the Viewer Discretion warnings during this episode? The only scene I thought was going to need the warning was when Hank put that bag over his head. I clearly thought he was going to pound it while reading some porn, but instead he actually tried to kill himself. To me that didn't warrant the warnings. If anyone has watched Shades of Blue, that show had a guy going down on another guy. There was little left to the imagination, and I don't believe they had viewer warnings throughout the show like this one did.

 

I'm not sure but I think the warnings were because of the scenes of Ben and Adam kidnapped and yes likely Hank trying to kill himself. Yes, none of those things had bold sexual behavior but they were likely triggers for people who have suffered any of these things and maybe have PTSD because of it. A sexual abuse victim may have very well been triggered just by the scene of Adam referencing "what he comes to do to us..." Yes, the words weren't said but the meaning was clear. And as I said, I have no personal experience with these things but the scenes were hard for me to watch. Hell, even the scene of Ben escaping could have been difficult because I know, even knowing that he clearly escaped, I was holding my breath and screaming for him to run and fight when pock mark guy was trying to grab his foot. 

 

Didn't Willa only give Ben the money when she dumped him at the bus station? How could that be the same money in the motel light switch?

 

Well, remember there was the episode where we found out Ben was the one who left at night and didn't turn on the alarm. When Danny confronted him about it, he said he just wanted to know that he could leave and be okay. It's possible he just went to the motel and hid the money. Also, before he shows up at the police station after Willa leaves him at the bus station, we see him go to a park without the bag of clothes so again, he might have gone back to the motel, which if you think about it would make sense. He probably felt a little safe there - before then deciding to go ahead with the plan after all. 

 

Maybe I missed something, but it seemed that starving himself allowed Ben's wrist to slip through his "bracelet."

 

Yeah, I think that was his plan. The kidnapper clearly thought he just wasn't eating because of Adam being gone.

 

Wow so Willa was told by Ben that Adam is dead. Did she know that Hank was not the one who killed Adam? Did she not care if the right person was brought to justice for Adam? Im confused. Iow, having fake Adam come back was the impetus that let Hank out of jail - which is fine if he didnt' do it and from what viewers have seen - he didn't, but Willa didnt' know that, did she?

 

Initially, Willa was going to take Ben to the police, so my guess is Hank would have still been exonerated because Ben would obviously be proof that Hank didn't kill Adam. She had him in the motel because she didn't want her mother to have to deal with the news when she had her big dinner/speech as it was likely to devastate her and the family, to realize that all this time Adam was alive and if somehow they'd managed to find him just a week or two before, he'd still be alive. They'd basically have to grieve him all over again.

 

However, while she was at the dinner and thinking how much better their life would have been, she came up with the idea for Ben to pretend to be Adam. However, after her dad insists to her that his and her mom's marriage was basically over long before, she realizes that the whole thing would not help and two, finding out Adam really was dead would also destroy them some more. So she told Ben to just leave and yes, was willing to let things continue as they were - the family believed Adam died ten years ago and that Hank killed him. 

 

I absolutely agree with others that it was incredibly cold on her part to abandon Ben that way with everything he'd been through but I think it's clear at this point that Willa is not operating on a full deck. 

 

To me there was just something odd about his behavior with the real Adam...i.e. he didn't seem like he was that upset about being locked away like Adam was.

 

IMO he seemed like a child who'd been held captive and abused for a long time and used delusions and fantasies to get through the days. He was also brainwashed into seeing his captor as his "friend" because he was "nice" to him and brought him things while he of course just denied or tried to bury the obvious sexual abuse part. To me, one of the most telling parts of the very brutal reality Ben was living and proof that he very much was kidnapped and abused, is when Adam, after just getting there, asks him what the friend does when he comes to visit. The slight change on Ben's face and the way he clearly was trying to side step the question was obvious. The child actor playing Ben did a really good job there. In my opinion, whatever Ben's true backstory, I do think all the evidence we have so far pointed to him very much being an abused and tortured child and victim of this guy as much as Adam was. 

Edited April 11, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[Ina123]

Had mixed feelings about this episode. Liked the pace, there were a lot of beautiful shots of sunrise/sunsets, leaves, etc. But having gone the distance with this show, I'm disappointed it's about a women's political career and what she and her crazy daughter will do to stay on top.

- Can anyone explain the Viewer Discretion warnings during this episode? The only scene I thought was going to need the warning was when Hank put that bag over his head. I clearly thought he was going to pound it while reading some porn, but instead he actually tried to kill himself. To me that didn't warrant the warnings. If anyone has watched Shades of Blue, that show had a guy going down on another guy. There was little left to the imagination, and I don't believe they had viewer warnings throughout the show like this one did.

- Agree with another poster, why is there so little Danny? Zach Gilford is being wasted playing a character that is wasted all the time. We keep seeing how Willa has carried her guilt around for so many years...what about Danny? Yeah, he started drinking, but is that all there is to it? The other family members have all been fleshed out so much more. The writers need to show the downward slide of Danny. Surely he felt tremendous guilt too...he was the oldest.

- Could it be Ben wasn't really abducted but was there because he wanted to be? I know there were shackles, but if he was shut away for longer than 10 years, his mental growth was stunted. Hiding that money in a motel light socket was something I don't even know if a hardened criminal would think to do, but it didn't come from a 10 year old mind. Likewise being able to find his way to Adam's house. To me there was just something odd about his behavior with the real Adam...i.e. he didn't seem like he was that upset about being locked away like Adam was.

- Ina123, you mentioned a young abducted boy escaping in real life with a younger boy who had just been abducted by their captor...you said you wonder what happened there. I'm not sure if this is the incident you were talking about, but it did happen many years ago. It was also made into a very popular TV movie...I Know My Name is Stephen. Stephen Stayner was abducted for 7 years and when the pedophile who did it brought home another little boy. Knowing what he was going to do to the kid, Stephen brought him to the police station. Sadly, Stephen was killed in a motorcycle accident 7 years later, and his older brother was convicted of murdering 3 people many years after that. The little kid grew up to be a cop, but died (not in the line of duty) in his early thirties. This was so well publicized it probably isn't the story you were thinking about, but it's the only one that comes to mind for me.

Actually, the Steven Stayner story is just like the one I'm thinking of but that's not it.

 

A very young boy was abducted after he got off the school bus on a rural rd (I think). I remember he had glasses. The abductor took him home and there was an older boy already there who had been abducted years earlier. The older boy was out and about in the neighbor hood and wasn't trying to escape. The cops, I think tracked down the car and the older boy but he lied about who he was. Cops returned and found the younger boy. Law enforcement figured it out and rescued them after a few days. Like I said, I think the abductor wound up being a guy who worked at a pizza place. Dang, I can see the kid's face but can't think of a name. Horner or something like that.

 

A side note to the Steven Stayner story. His brother was Cary Stayner who killed a worker at Yosemite and 3 tourists who were visiting, a woman and her daughter and a friend. Brutal and gory as I recall. The Stayner story is just so terrible.

[ari333]

Sorry Im a doofus or I missed something. Did Willa know that Hank did not do this to Adam and Ben... as in did she ask Ben and show him a photo of Hank or something? BC if Adam had just gone away as she asked, then Hank would have been still inprison wrongly accused.

I remember the Horner name  but I cant recall the details

[lucindabelle]

 

So many fans are still expecting Hank to be an axe murdering monster. He had child pornography on his computer, that's how he got on the sex offender list, not that he's ever hurt anyone. He even subjected himself to chemical castration. His so easily being framed for Adam's disappearance is the downside of publishing such lists.

Maybe I missed something, but it seemed that starving himself allowed Ben's wrist to slip through his "bracelet." If that morning in the motel room was Ben's first sunrise, he must have been held since he was very young.

 

 

as was pointed out recently on svu, child porn pictures are actually pictures of crimes in process, and by viewing and buying you're supporting that industry. so really, it's bad enough.

 

ben has "never" seen sunrise? has he been there since birth? he ought to be in much worse shape. who teaches "school?"

 

are we meant to think they had one newspaper all that time?

[ari333]

YES! Never seen sunrise.... never...  perplexed me too. Was he born in the bunker and never let out?

[FineWashables]

Also -- and I almost hate to pick holes at this point -- how is it that Ben has never seen a sunrise, yet has an ongoing game he plays with Adam about eating prime rib and other fancy foods unlikely to be served to kids who share a piece of stale bread every day?  How would Ben even know about these things?

[ari333]

Also -- and I almost hate to pick holes at this point -- how is it that Ben has never seen a sunrise, yet has an ongoing game he plays with Adam about eating prime rib and other fancy foods unlikely to be served to kids who share a piece of stale bread every day?  How would Ben even know about these things?

 

Yes , if they're going to go with this part... details etc they should offer some bit of explanation so it makes a little sense. WEIRD!

[truthaboutluv]

I assumed that was from the books the kidnapper provided. When he was showing Adam "around", he did say they had school. So it looked like the kidnapper provided some books to keep them somewhat occupied. 

[JapMo]

Oh, Ina123, that was in my neck of the woods in suburban St. Louis. Kid's name was Shawn Hornbeck. He was abducted for like 4 years and apparently came and went as he pleased most of the time. Even got on the special website his Mom set up for him so he knew people were looking for him. Not sure if it was Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck (maybe neither but someone on TV) criticized him and said he had numerous occasions where he could have told authorities but he didn't, implying that Hornbeck enjoyed the freedom and did't want to be found. Of course the media jumped all over that. But haven't heard about this kid, whose now, of course, an adult, in a long time. Hopefully he's doing well.

[RedInk]

YES! Never seen sunrise.... never... perplexed me too. Was he born in the bunker and never let out?

I just took this to mean he's been there a really long time. 4-5 year olds don't really pay close attention to the sunrise. His flashback scenes really drove home the idea that he's been tortured for a very long time. And consider his statement that he doesn't have any family... he likely doesn't remember well and would have been lied to about that.

I think some of you are onto something about the wife being involved. Someone is. Unless I'm confused, Ben pulled up the rope when he escaped, so who helped Pocks out?

[Bobbin]

@Ari333, the case you're thinking of is probably the one involving 15 year old Shaw Hornbeck and Ben Ownby. Shawn was interviewed on TV by Oprah (with millions tuned in hoping he'd reveal details of being molested, which he refused to discuss or even admit had happened).

(Added thought:) Shawn Hornbeck and "Ben" could both have suffered from Stockholm syndrome.

Typically, as with Shawn and Steve Staynor (and a Cold Case episode), a younger boy may be later kidnapped because the older boy "aged out" -- teens get hairy, pimply and ornery, and pedophiles who go for 8-11 year olds usually want that age only. Kidnapping another child just so the first one will have a companion is not common. It's possible that Adam was simply added as part of a "harem." Or for some other reason. If Willa framed Hank to stop everyone from looking for Adam, why? And why were the parents surprised that Hank had confessed to taking and killing Adam -- did they know that he couldn't have had anything to do with Adam's disappearance?

Like the perennial question about the starship Enterprise, did the bunker have a bathroom?

Edited April 11, 2016 by Bobbin

[iMonrey]

 

A very young boy was abducted after he got off the school bus on a rural rd (I think). I remember he had glasses. The abductor took him home and there was an older boy already there who had been abducted years earlier. The older boy was out and about in the neighbor hood and wasn't trying to escape. The cops, I think tracked down the car and the older boy but he lied about who he was. Cops returned and found the younger boy. Law enforcement figured it out and rescued them after a few days. Like I said, I think the abductor wound up being a guy who worked at a pizza place. Dang, I can see the kid's face but can't think of a name. Horner or something like that.

 

I think you're thinking of Sean something-or-other. Police managed to track down the younger boy in an apartment and in the process stumbled across the older boy who had been missing far longer.

 

The whole DNA thing doesn't make any sense and I hope they clear that up. My impression was that Willa plucked Ben's hair from his scalp so that when the police called to say they had Adam, they would obviously need to ask the family for something belonging to Adam to do a DNA comparison, whereupon Willa would produce the hair belonging to "Adam." But since she abandoned the plan I don't understand if or how the hair ever came into play. The idea that she somehow crept into the police station and planted the hair sample among Adam's case files is absurd. The hospital itself wouldn't have any samples of Adam's DNA in their files.

 

I'm assuming when the police took Ben to the hospital it was Nina they turned to first and asked if she could provide any of Adam's DNA since she'd been in charge of the case and would have access to all the evidence they collected.

[KaveDweller]

I think you're thinking of Sean something-or-other. Police managed to track down the younger boy in an apartment and in the process stumbled across the older boy who had been missing far longer.

 

The whole DNA thing doesn't make any sense and I hope they clear that up. My impression was that Willa plucked Ben's hair from his scalp so that when the police called to say they had Adam, they would obviously need to ask the family for something belonging to Adam to do a DNA comparison, whereupon Willa would produce the hair belonging to "Adam." But since she abandoned the plan I don't understand if or how the hair ever came into play. The idea that she somehow crept into the police station and planted the hair sample among Adam's case files is absurd. The hospital itself wouldn't have any samples of Adam's DNA in their files.

 

It looked like she gave Ben hair. I don't know where she was supposed to have gotten it, but maybe they saved all Adam's stuff (including a hairbrush)? Although that doesn't make sense, because I don't think they'd ask Ben for hair when doing the test, they'd swab his mouth or something.

[nara]

It looked like she gave Ben hair. I don't know where she was supposed to have gotten it, but maybe they saved all Adam's stuff (including a hairbrush)? Although that doesn't make sense, because I don't think they'd ask Ben for hair when doing the test, they'd swab his mouth or something.

I believe she plucked hair from Ben, and then took it to sneak into the police evidence as Adam's hair that was collected when he went missing for future use.

[CleoCaesar]

Pretty good episode. I did wonder a little at the boys' comparatively good health, though. They literally haven't seen sunlight in a decade. Their vitamin D levels and immune systems would be shot. Their muscles would have atrophied, their growth stunted, and they'd be nearly skeletal. Not to mention psychologically they'd be more or less shattered, after a decade of captivity and daily rape, especially during their formative years. It's grim either way.

[candall]

Those two little boys trapped, growing up, in a dungeon justified the Viewer Warning as far as I'm concerned.  I had shivers.  I caught myself thinking "What could be worse?"  Then immediately realized we weren't even seeing the forced sex.  Definitely not a good scenario for young viewers.

 

I don't think Willa can be redeemed for me after making Ben think he had a chance for a family and then jerking it away from him because she changed her mind.  He's so alone--that's worse than a whole family thinking their son's back and having that taken away again.  The obvious move, WILLA, was to just have Ben be exactly who he is, and then absorb him into their family on the basis of "we all need this"--i.e. the truth.  Joan would have even scored political cred.

 

My Nitpick Of The Week concerns Hank coming home and being informed by some goob:  "Oh, you didn't get the memo on that?  She dead."  Seems like Mom maintained a constant enough presence so Hank would have noticed if she disappeared.

 

Runner up:  the Mayor being passed out on a park bench in full view of the morning park-goers.  Snort.

 

I'm hooked.  Four shows I could watch in this time slot and this is my pick.

[Ina123]

Oh, Ina123, that was in my neck of the woods in suburban St. Louis. Kid's name was Shawn Hornbeck. He was abducted for like 4 years and apparently came and went as he pleased most of the time. Even got on the special website his Mom set up for him so he knew people were looking for him. Not sure if it was Bill O'Reilly or Glenn Beck (maybe neither but someone on TV) criticized him and said he had numerous occasions where he could have told authorities but he didn't, implying that Hornbeck enjoyed the freedom and did't want to be found. Of course the media jumped all over that. But haven't heard about this kid, whose now, of course, an adult, in a long time. Hopefully he's doing well.

Thank you, JapMo. That's the story. Sure would like a followup to see how he is. But I would totally understand why they would just like to stay out of the public eye.

[Ina123]

Another thing about the bunker. You can hear water dripping. That damp air had to cause all kinds of breathing and sinus problems. Lack of sun, moldy from all the moisture. IRL Ben had to come out of there with serious health problems.

I think I'm only staying in to resolve the DNA issue. Maybe I missed something. I know she pulled out his hair for the sample but is that all we've seen? Are we to assume a sample was asked for and Willa goes upstairs and comes down with hair from Ben's hairbrush that they have miraculously kept for this moment?

[peachmangosteen]

I think I'm only staying in to resolve the DNA issue. Maybe I missed something. I know she pulled out his hair for the sample but is that all we've seen? Are we to assume a sample was asked for and Willa goes upstairs and comes down with hair from Ben's hairbrush that they have miraculously kept for this moment?

 

That actually makes sense so now I'm convinced there's not going to be more about the DNA thing because this easily explains it. Although then again didn't the doctor who did the test kill himself shortly after? So that's kinda weird, but maybe just a red herring.

 

I thought this episode was borderline excellent if only because the kids and young adults playing Adam and Ben are just fantastic. Sure, there's still a lot of plot holes and the writing sometimes isn't great, but I really feel for these people, especially those two boys.

 

I will be shocked if Adam is actually dead. I'm expecting him to show up in some way at the end of the finale.

 

Ben saying he'd 'never' seen a sunrise made me think of someone here's theory that Pockmark is his dad. Plus he said he had no family. But maybe he was just kidnapped very young and just doesn't remember his real family. You'd have thought that a very young boy being kidnapped would've come up though, especially once Adam was kidnapped. 

 

Willa is straight-up unhinged and desperately needs help and I really felt for her in this ep. Well, like others have said, up until she was just going to let Ben go off all on his own. That was pretty callous. But, she's nuts, so I'll give it a pass.

 

Hank feels like such a pointless character and I keep waiting for them to tie him into the plot.

[iMonrey]

 

I believe she plucked hair from Ben, and then took it to sneak into the police evidence as Adam's hair that was collected when he went missing for future use.

 

That's my best guess too, but it's absurd to think Willa could sneak into the police station, and into what must surely be a tightly secured evidence room, locate the files for her 10-years missing brother, and swap out whatever existing hair evidence they had in that file with the hair she took from Ben. I've got to see that scene to believe it (and even then, probably not).

 

 

I did wonder a little at the boys' comparatively good health, though. They literally haven't seen sunlight in a decade. Their vitamin D levels and immune systems would be shot. Their muscles would have atrophied, their growth stunted, and they'd be nearly skeletal. 

 

No kidding -  has Flowers in the Attic taught us nothing?!?

Edited April 12, 2016 by iMonrey

[Major Bigtime]

Willa is crazy as a loon, and Ben-faux-Adam is a lot more cunning than I gave him credit for.

If Adam is alive somewhere, Ben's history. But I believe he's dead as how would the man get him into a hospital without people figuring out who he is?

Oh wait, this show doesn't work like that.

Edited April 12, 2016 by Major Bigtime

[truthaboutluv]

Bridey said the hospital outsourced the DNA test to a lab.  And the doctor(?) threw himself in front of a train two days after the test.  Maybe Ben killed him, to help hide things.  

 

I wonder if Ben was a killer even as a kid, maybe killing pets and stuff, and his own family did an illegal 'adoption' to Doug (TV guide is calling pocky Doug) just to rid themselves of him.  

 

Wow, that's quite an interesting leap. This isn't a judgement or anything but just fascinating to me how different people watch the same show and interpret things so differently (which to be fair is why boards like this exist). It's obvious that some view Ben as not just suspicious but probably a "villain" in some ways and yet, from the very first episode I've always just thought it was obvious that he'd clearly been abused and tortured. So while I yes I can tell he's strange and shifty and hell even a little creepy, I still think it's probably because he spent more than a decade chained and held underground and sexually abused repeatedly.

Edited April 12, 2016 by truthaboutluv

[racked]

Bridey said the hospital outsourced the DNA test to a lab.  And the doctor(?) threw himself in front of a train two days after the test.  Maybe Ben killed him, to help hide things.  

 

I wonder if Ben was a killer even as a kid, maybe killing pets and stuff, and his own family did an illegal 'adoption' to Doug (TV guide is calling pocky Doug) just to rid themselves of him.  

 

Wow that hadn't occurred to me. Would Ben even know who at the lab was doing the test? And if Willa provided Ben's samples in place of Adam's, there actually was nothing to hide was there? Confusing. Hopefully they clear that up. 

[truthaboutluv]

I'm not passing judgment on a tv character.  I'm speculating on possible plot twists that would explain some of the things that don't make sense, like "no family" and the dead DNA doctor. 

There have been clues that he's maybe not as innocent as he seems.  Using "our friend" is one that springs to mind.  The money hidden.  The key and alarm code.  The cheerfulness with Adam.

I've said from the start he reminds me of the Edward Norton character in Primal Fear.  He's also a 'special needs' kind of young man the audience is conditioned to pity, which is why no one sees the twist coming.   

I don't think they'll make Danny a bad guy (to this extent) so who else is on the "oh, I never suspected ____" list?  I still think Hank could be a monster, in a plot twist, too.  I don't want him to be, or Danny, but mainly because of past roles of the actors.  They know that when they cast people, though.

 

 

As I said, it wasn't a judgement. And I do agree that the writers have placed enough "hints" and suggestions that there may be a lot more to Ben than anyone realizes it. So to be honest, I don't even know that if there is some reveal of a long con at the end it'd be that shocking to some (which is actually kind of why I don't think that will be the case because many expect that he's being shifty and conniving). I think what threw me was the comment about him killing animals and being given away through illegal adoption, etc. Like much as I can see the writers having the character be evil and yes, maybe an Ed Norton from Primal Fear character, I don't see it being that detailed and out there OR I may be wrong. Again, it's why I said I really thought it interesting how different people watch the same thing and have such vastly different interpretations. The scenario just threw me a little is all.