S03.E17: Delaware

[OnceSane]

A risky journey is undertaken by Abbie and Ichabod to save the world with one day remaining before The Hidden One becomes omniscient once again. Meanwhile, Jenny, Joe and Sophie come up with a plan to help the Witnesses do their thing.

[roseslg]

Well, that was some ish.  Seriously?  We are doing this again?  Did they not learn from bringing Katrina into the future?  Betsey too?  Jesus Christ on a Cracker!   Betsey should never do voice-overs, ever.  Her voice is like nails on a chalkboard.   I didn't see her in the previews for next week so hopefully she evaporates?

[janeta]

-groan- i knew they'd resurrect Betsy. Hopefully they kill her off next week.

Awful lot of talking in this ep; you would hardly know they were in a crashing hurry to save the world...

[Enero]

The Crane/Abbie scene at the start of this episode was everything.

 

I see they filmed at Stone Mountain again. The shots there were gorgeous.

 

Not surprised about the Papa Mills reveal. But how the hell did Jenny get away from THO to get to the trailer? Not much about the Jenny/Joe/Pandora/Danny/Sophie stuff made sense.

 

How is it that Abbie and Crane went to the catacombs to rebuild Pandora's box so they could save the world only to spend the whole time strolling down memory lane of Abbie's previous time there and of course Betsy's death? Sigh.

 

The less I say about Betsy Ross the better. 

 

Don't know what else to say about this episode except, Argh. Will likely comment more later.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Enero

[MissAlmond]

And it started off so well . . .

[dargosmydaddy]

So they killed off the best new regular of the season, and resurrected the worst... yeah, that makes sense.

[catrox14]

Welp I was wrong about her being out of time, but these fuckers just had to bring her to our time.  So at least I know that Nikki Reed is terrible actor. LOL

 

I knew Danny was a lying liar.

I knew Papa Mills was not what he seemed

I knew they would not spare us fucking Busty Ross in the 21st Century

 

And they fucking killed Joe who I actually liked.  Great. 

 

I'm so annoyed right now.

[Senna]

This episode.  Killed me dead.

 

All the Ichabbie goodness at the beginning ... then Joe DIES ... then Betsy's ALIVE ... I mean, I've been feeling the second one coming all season, I just kept hoping it wouldn't happen, because her character (but mostly her actress) has always been a weakness in the show, and having her around in the present is just shudder-inducing.  Though since the preview

didn't show her at all

, maybe there's hope.  Also, did they say who was going by Betsy Ross after she got stuck in the catacombs?  Or maybe they can figure out how to fling her back into the past, so it is her, but changed after that experience?

 

I didn't foresee Joe dying, and at Jenny's hand, no less.  I'm still half expecting them to switch that around somehow -- maybe Betsy's life for Joe's?

 

Papa Mills being in the know is interesting, though I'm not sure where they're going with it. 

 

I feel like now that Danny has admitted he was spying on Abbie to Sophie, he's going to die.

[Enero]

So they killed off the best new regular of the season, and resurrected the worst... yeah, that makes sense.

 

Yep. You know I'm getting so close to not caring if this show gets renewed or not. Nothing that's happening right now will interest me enough to come back for another season.

[catrox14]

 

I feel like now that Danny has admitted he was spying on Abbie to Sophie, he's going to die.

 

I can only hope

[maraleia]

I wonder how the actors feel about filming at Stone Mountain since there are Confederate leaders carved into the stone. It is a beautiful place but fraught with racist stuff including the KKK holding klan meetings on the other side of the mountain from the carvings.

I'm so mad they killed off Joe and brought Betsy to the future.

Edited April 2, 2016 by maraleia

[Kanner]

How can a show that produces such an awesomely wonderful opening scene be the same show that thinks more Besty Ross is a good idea?

I'm with you guys, hopefully she is gone (I don't care how) by the next episode.

[Enero]

I wonder how the actors feel about filming at Stone Mountain since there are Confederate leaders carved into the stone. It is a beautiful place but fraught with racist stuff including the KKK holding klan meetings on the other side of the mountain from the carvings.

 

The KKK did have a rally there last year, which they have the right to do since it is a public park. But there is no indication that they have ongoing meetings there.

 

All that said, the park, though beautiful is controversial considering what it stands for. I haven't been there in many years for that very reason. However, strangely enough, despite it's history it's staff is quite diverse as are the people that patronize the park. 

 

BOT - How did Washington get back home if the boat got blown up? Did he use Betsy Ross' machete to climb down the well and get back? I agree with others, Betsy Ross needs to go. She wasn't shown in the previews. Hopefully that's not a fakeout and that she dies as soon as she steps foot out of the Catacombs.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Enero

[Free]

Well, that was some ish.  Seriously?  We are doing this again?  Did they not learn from bringing Katrina into the future?  Betsey too?  Jesus Christ on a Cracker!   Betsey should never do voice-overs, ever.  Her voice is like nails on a chalkboard.   I didn't see her in the previews for next week so hopefully she evaporates?

 

Agreed, especially seeing as the group itself is already large enough that Betsy just feels redundant, especially after what they already went through with Katrina.

[catrox14]

 

BOT - How did Washington get back home if the boat got blown up? Did he use Betsy Ross' machete to climb down the well and get back? I agree with others, Betsy Ross needs to go. She wasn't shown in the previews. Hopefully that's not a fakeout and that she dies as soon as she steps foot out of the Catacombs.

 

Oh maybe Washington himself is stuck in the catacombs and he turns into Headless!Washington. That would be kind of awesome. And the Washington we know is like an evil doppelganger...?  no...alright

Edited April 2, 2016 by catrox14

[kia112]

I rolled my eyes so hard at the ship-baiting in the beginning that I almost couldn't enjoy it. They can eat each other's doughnuts and drink each other's coffee all they want, but they will never be my Richonne sharing an apple (not that they were trying to be, but I couldn't help but see the similarities).

 

Hopefully they can reverse that Joe death next week. If it even matters. I also hope Betsy's eternal soul is they one they use instead of Abbie's or Ichabod's.

[Rosiejuliemom]

This episode.  Killed me dead.

 

All the Ichabbie goodness at the beginning ... then Joe DIES ... then Betsy's ALIVE ... I mean, I've been feeling the second one coming all season, I just kept hoping it wouldn't happen, because her character (but mostly her actress) has always been a weakness in the show, and having her around in the present is just shudder-inducing.

 

I didn't foresee Joe dying, and at Jenny's hand, no less.  I'm still half expecting them to switch that around somehow -- maybe Betsy's life for Joe's?

 

I feel like now that Danny has admitted he was spying on Abbie to Sophie, he's going to die.

 

Maybe they can do some sort of mojo that will bring back Joe at the expense of both Betsy and Danny? TBH, I would be okay with that.

 

Did it seem like the Ichabbie was particularly strong this ep? Not just the beginning, but many little things throughout the episode?

[phoenics]

I just want to blow something up right now.

[Enero]

Oh maybe Washington himself is stuck in the catacombs and he turns into Headless!Washington. That would be kind of awesome. And the Washington we know is like an evil doppelganger...?  no...alright

 

LOL. If Washington didn't make it out then who led the Revolutionary War and who was our first President??? This totally sounds like a BSC stunt this show would pull. Washington wasn't even Washington. LOL

[catrox14]

LOL. If Washington didn't make it out then who led the Revolutionary War and who was our first President??? This totally sounds like a BSC stunt this show would pull. Washington wasn't even Washington. LOL

 

I would almost forgive the show for some things if they actually went with Washington not being Washington. I think it would be hilarious. 

[maraleia]

Hey at least in the history of the show they've only killed of one person of color- Abbie and Jenny's mom and that was in the past. We can't say that about other shows can we?

[catrox14]

It's so cruel to Jenny to make here be the one that killed Joe. What if we find out that Papa Mills was up to no good and she killed Joe for nothing. I mean, would she have killed him if he wasn't going after her father? 

 

If Ezra had just left Jenny might have been able to save Joe. I have a bad feeling about Papa Mills

[phoenics]

Aaand I still haven't recovered from my anger and shock. I knew they would do this with Betsy. I KNEW it.

*stares angrily off into the distance*

[kia112]

Also, Abbie was in the catacombs 6 weeks real time, but 10 months Demonic Daylight Time. Betsy was in there over 200 years real time and she thinks, like, what? Four months have passed? Seven tops? Is that because she unexplainably went into some kind of stasis?

Edited April 2, 2016 by kia112

[catrice2]

Yeah...no more Joe and Jennie.   I did not believe in the romance.  Jennie needs a much stronger man. 

 

I knew they didn't hire Arthur Fancy just for him to come over and say hello, but it took too long for his reveal. 

 

Betsy why?   All of the Betsy Ross story has bored me. 

 

I hope Danny is the next to go.  I want a new season, but it HAS to be better than this one 

[blugirlami21]

Why is she alive? Seriously, why? What good can come from it? And what was the thing that lived out the rest of her life? No one else got a golem. They were laying the closeness of Ichabod and Betsy's relationship on thick weren't they? I'm hoping against hope that she turns to dust once she tries to leave that room.

The opening scenes were so perfect. It was pure ichabbie goodness. I'm trying to envision Reynolds being ok with scenes like that and it's hard. Abbie and Ichabod act like an old married couple ninety nine percent of the time. Who would expect their so to be ok with that?

Why is Jenny so foolhardy? Did she really think she could take out tho with a gun? Really? She got Joe killed. He better not be dead, dead. He's part of the family now.

What was the point of Pandora going to talk to tho? She didn't do anything but stand there.

Danny wasn't horrible. I'm just glad we weren't subjected to much Dabnie in this episode.

[Three]

Thought one of JJ was going to die. They were taking up way too much storytelling space on that romance for nothing to happen. I look on it like a Weasley (Harry Potter) loss. It’s not just the world in peril, the stakes are personal, because there really hasn’t been that much sense of an impending apocalypse.

Can’t remember the name of the film, very old one, (probably had a remake) where there is this village in the Himalayas where people live forever/stay young forever (ShangriLa?). ANYWAY, a team of explorers discover the valley and then are leaving at the end of the film and one of the local girls goes with them but as soon as she leaves the protection of the valley she shrivels into her actual (very old) age and dies. Maybe that will happen to Betsy Ross. Fingers crossed.

[MissAlmond]

I would almost forgive the show for some things if they actually went with Washington not being Washington. I think it would be hilarious.

 

 

^^^THIS^^^ I would love.

 

Pandora, I thought you were my girl!  Why didn't you kill off Daniel Reynolds when you had the chance? I'm hoping he turns out to be the "saboteur" of this way too big Friends of The Witnesses. 

 

So there you are, Papa Mills!  Until tonight, I kept forgetting about you.  Since that twist had been discussed on the boards it didn't surprise me. 

 

I don't think Joe is dead dead.  He didn't turn into dust and blow away.

 

Beautiful beginning, lovely lighting on Crane and Abbie in the boat.  But then came Betsy.

 

Nikki Reed, I'm sure, is a fine person.  But dear God in heaven, why is Betsy Ross back?  I thought last week's letter reading was bad, but tonight  . . . .  Just awful.  Terrible.  So very, very, bad.  And to add insult to injury, she wouldn't stop talking!   She kept going on and on, sounding as if she had never read lines of a script in her life.  It was so bad  - hang on to your hats - I dreaded whenever the show went back to the catacombs.  You heard me right.  Nikki Reed's acting was so terrible, I didn't want to switch back to the catacombs in spite of Crane and Abbie also being there.  "That's" how bad her acting is for me.

Edited April 2, 2016 by MissAlmond

[Three]

Ah! Ninja'd by blugirlami21

[phoenics]

And WHAT the entire F was that look Betsy gave Abbie when she saw her? *breathes fire*

[DkNNy79]

I think the actor confirmed Joe's death and his exit.

I enjoyed this episode up until Betsy showed up.

Jenny is impulsive and I knew she was gonna eff things up with THO. I was wondering if she was aiming to hit the hourglass though. She had to have known she couldn't kill a god with a gunshot.

And WHAT the entire F was that look Betsy gave Abbie when she saw her? *breathes fire*

Jealousy. But also she thought it was only the new year, so she was probably curious why Ichabod was with a black woman.

[MissAlmond]

 

I think the actor confirmed Joe's death and his exit.

 

Ah, thanks.  Sorry to see him go. 

 

Can’t remember the name of the film, very old one, (probably had a remake) where there is this village in the Himalayas where people live forever/stay young forever (ShangriLa?). ANYWAY, a team of explorers discover the valley and then are leaving at the end of the film and one of the local girls goes with them but as soon as she leaves the protection of the valley she shrivels into her actual (very old) age and dies.

 

 

The name of the film is "Lost Horizon" but you're right about what occurs to the local girl.  It gives me hope and if it does happen, let's hope Betsy keeps her mouth shut.

Edited April 2, 2016 by MissAlmond

[TaurusRose]

All the Ichabbie goodness at the beginning

Platonic friends. I know I go out of my way to make special drinks for friends. RMFE

 

I didn't foresee Joe dying...

Well, at last THO did something dastardly. We only had to wait 17 episodes.

 

Papa Mills being in the know is interesting...though I'm not sure where they're going with it.

I guess, if going from no one was in the know to everybody is in the know is a good thing. And I don't care where they're going with it. I've made up my mind that SH is dead to me. What a crock of bullshit they've delivered this season. 

 

I feel like now that Danny has admitted he was spying on Abbie to Sophie, he's going to die.

The person he should have confessed to was Abbie. Loser.

 

Yep. You know I'm getting so close to not caring if this show gets renewed or not.

 

I can honestly say I don't care. I'm not planning on watching the season finale. Payback would be it being the series finale. Assholes.

 

I rolled my eyes so hard at the ship-baiting in the beginning that I almost couldn't enjoy it.

I didn't enjoy it for that very reason.

 

Why is Jenny so foolhardy? Did she really think she could take out tho with a gun? Really? She got Joe killed.

Jenny hasn't been the person I initially liked all season. Love, in her case, made her stupid.

 

Why is she alive? Seriously, why? What good can come from it?

This was the moment that made me say I. Am. Done. With. Sleepy Hollow.

Edited April 2, 2016 by taurusrose

[FierceAfroChick]

Not even watching. Done.

[catrox14]

 

nd WHAT the entire F was that look Betsy gave Abbie when she saw her? *breathes fire*

 

That's  what I thought at first but then I thought OH NO...she thinks its 1774 (?)and she's thinking WTF is this Black woman doing here and why does she know Ichabod and why doesn't she know her place. 

[blugirlami21]

If Betsy doesnt die and she and Ichabod get together in the next episode, I will be officially done whether we get a new season or not.

Because then I will definitively know that the writers and the show runners don't know what they're doing. At all.

Zach Appelman confirmed Joe's death which is another misstep on the show runners parts. Why would they have Jenny be the one who kills him?

I'm tired of trying to find reasons to defend the stupid things that happen on this show.

[Three]

And WHAT the entire F was that look Betsy gave Abbie when she saw her? *breathes fire*

 

Weeelll, she obviously has feeeelings. Not that you can tell from NR’s acting or the bizarre character trajectory (busty, flirty adventuress/ruthless spy/lynchpin and seamstress). (We know because they told us with a really bad letter read through.) What I would like to see out of this if anything is a Crane actively choosing Abbie moment. Like, "Nope. Sorry. Won't put anyone or anything before Abbie again. She is everything to me and she's been through enough. You don't even come close. Soz." I know he kind of chose to shiv Katrina last season, but it was in the spur of the moment. I want a clear set of his priorities communicated. Abbie is Priority 1, 2, 3 and 4. Then other Mills and Sophie, then general population of Sleepy Hollow, then national monuments, then Danny, then maybe Betsy.

[catrox14]

Heh, I'm picturing Betsy Ross being a total racist and Ichabod being OH HELL NO.  And then he kicks her back to the curb or the 18th century...

[BestestAuntEver]

I'm so disgusted right now. I feel tricked. I blame myself.

And WHAT the entire F was that look Betsy gave Abbie when she saw her? *breathes fire*

I can't go through this shit again. I just can't.

And the preview showing Abbie making a huge sacrifice once again. Fuck you show! Yeah, let's use Abbie to keep people hanging.

I feel dirty.

[phoenics]

Heh, I'm picturing Betsy Ross being a total racist and Ichabod being OH HELL NO.  And then he kicks her back to the curb or the 18th century...

Ichabod would be all like, "Bish, we can put you back under that blanket and leave yo @ss in here for another 200+ years if you don't check yoself."

I need to go watch Cookie hit Hakeem with a broom to live vicariously. Cookie = SH Fandom. Hakeem = SH Writers.

[Sparkling Beth]

I'm not going to say I'm done with the show yet.  But if the writers think the viewers want them to pair up Danny and Abbie, and Ichabod and Betsy, I think they should get a Most Clueless Writing Team award.  At this point I'm still holding out hope that all of this is a ruse to make us all the happier when Abbie and Crane realize that everyone else is a distraction and they belong together. 

 

I'm really pushing for that Betsy-shrivels-and-turns-to-dust-when-she-crosses-the-threshold scenario mentioned above.  'Cause that would be cool.

[blixie]

I will never ever understand these fucking people and their insistence on alienating the majority of their fucking audience with this Betsy-Katrian - random white woman BULLSHIT. Seriously I could give two fucks about S4, go be free Nikki and Tom. 

[possibilities]

Real Betsy didn't write the break up letter, right? That was whoever returned to 1776 and impersonated Betsy thereafter.

 

Jenny killed Joe and I guess we're supposed to think that's parallel to Ichabod killing K. Whatever. I thought Jenny and Joe were too shmoopy and boring this season, but I still think it was a shit move to have her kill him. She's been through enough. And I liked Joe, in general.

 

I agree that Ichabod and Abbie should have showed more urgency in the catacombs. I wanted to think the problem is supposed to be that there's no sense of time there, and it's a place that by design causes people to lose track of what they're doing. They showed lots of urgency on the river bank, before they crossed through the portal. But it's also true they showed little to no urgency on the boat crossing the river, or strolling through the woods supposedly looking for the portal. So basically the show isn't trying to make sense, it's trying to do everything and nothing at the same time. A little romance, a little mayhem, a little tragedy, a little end of the world, a smidge of betrayal w/a serving of confession and remorse, a little forgiveness and a side of CGI. And always some daddy issues.

 

I remember Pandora stowing Headless's head, though, right? So if they do ever get around to box repair, does that mean he can be released back into the wild? Or maybe the show will end on the destruction of the world. That's what happens when you dawdle instead of doing your chores, kids! Did I tell you to save the world, or did I tell you to save the world?

Edited April 2, 2016 by possibilities

[FierceAfroChick]

For me it's not even about the romantic pairings, it's about them killing off Joe and then adding another female who can potentially put Abbie on the back burner. So I think no matter what happens the next episode, done.

[Three]

Real Betsy didn't write the break up letter, right? That was whoever returned to 1776 and impersonated Betsy thereafter.

 

Damn! This show has me so confused. I’m running around in mind circles trying to make sense of it all. Although… maybe it was a fake Betsy all along and it wasn’t NR’s bad acting that made the character so wooden.  She was actually playing some creature pretending to be BR so what we took as a very mediocre talent was actually brilliant acting.

 

Not dropping out with one episode to go. One of three things will happen: I’ll love it (*cough*  Ichabbie *cough*), it’ll be meh, or I’ll hate it. If I hate it will just go in my bad memory file. Never to be opened again.

Edited April 2, 2016 by Three

[catrox14]

 

Damn! This show has me so confused. I’m running around in mind circles trying to make sense of it all. Although… maybe it was a fake Betsy all along and it wasn’t NR’s bad acting that made the character so wooden.  She was actually playing some creature pretending BR so what we took as a very mediocre talent was actually brilliant acting.

 

OH okay I would buy that is partly why she was terrible. She's Nikki playing not!Betsy playing Betsy?  What is this Supernatural?

[Enero]

Real Betsy didn't write the break up letter, right? That was whoever returned to 1776 and impersonated Betsy thereafter.

 

 

I don't think anyone returned to 1776 to impersonate Betsy. I think when Washington realized he wouldn't be able to get back to the Catacombs to rescue Betsy, he set up the fake Betsy Ross. Who knows who she was? Perhaps another secret operative who was female and working with them on their mission? Anyway, he had fake BR write a Dear John letter to Crane so that he wouldn't come looking for her and conveniently had her never see him face to face again. 

[catrox14]

You know  as much as I bitch about this show now, the one thing they got right along with Nicole and Tom, is an AWESOME theme song. That thing sticks in my head and whenever I hear it my brain goes immediately to the pilot and I get happy....and then I get sad. 

 

 

ETA: I swear the forum eats words.

Edited April 2, 2016 by catrox14

[Yolapukka]

I really wanted to see Sleepy Hollow's Washington played by Turn's Ian Kahn.

 

I Just Can't.

 

..with all the fuckery going on this week and last.   But even with the Betsy Ross Bullshit, the Winna still had to be Jenny somehow escaping The Hidden One in order to magically transport herself and her car to her trailer to save the father that abandoned her and eventually shoot her boyfriend. Was her getaway ENTIRELY OFFSCREEN, or did I miss some small scene that at least showed something? And how is Joe dead(?),  he took a shot to the right side of his chest, unless there is something wrong with my eyes and my TV. That could be fatal, eventually, but it would take a fuck of a long time to bleed out from that.

 

Dear Betsy; Please make the ultimate sacrifice, or just go home. signed, The World.

 

I still enjoy Sophie.  Danny has at least been useful instead of wasted these past two episodes even if the renewel of affections with Abbie irritates the hell out of me. He should really just shut his noise-hole, given the way he's been spying on her asset.

 

 

I'm really pushing for that Betsy-shrivels-and-turns-to-dust-when-she-crosses-the-threshold scenario mentioned above.  'Cause that would be cool.

 

 

My prayer.^

... Especially since they cut a ton of the scenes Nikki Reed filmed (assumedly) because she just wasn't working at all.

Edited April 2, 2016 by yuggapukka

[Enero]

Yep. You know I'm getting so close to not caring if this show gets renewed or not. Nothing that's happening right now will interest me enough to come back for another season.

 

Quoting myself here, after reading CC's interview with TV Insider, I feel better about this episode. There is still a lot that's wrong with it and a lot I didn't like, but reading what CC had to say made some things make more sense,