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S12.E16: When It Hurts So Bad

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There was an obvious look that passed over Catherine Avery's face when April told her about finding out about the baby the day of the divorce, which telegraphed that she was going to use that to her/Jackson's advantage in some way, and that everything after that was calculated. I didn't think she'd gone in that calculated, so that was a surprise. I guess we'll have to wait to find out what she's going to do. Custody wouldn't hinge on when April knew what she knew - as the baby's father, Jackson could sue for custody either way. Forcing abortion is getting ahead of ourselves - I'm guessing this baby will be found to be healthy (or be misdiagnosed but April prevails in carrying to term and it turns out healthy after all).

 

Panic attacks by their very nature defy logic - I know from experience. So does tragedy coming back up at you in weird ways. I don't think Meredith's reaction was so strange. The cleaning felt like a classic goofy Grey's thing. Alex continues to be my favorite over the past few episodes - he's getting some better stuff to do.

 

I agree with many - Penny is boring, and there's no chemistry between her and Callie. I don't mind the storyline of her being at the hospital as an intern, really, but the relationship with Callie is pretty unconvincing.

 

While I've never hated Amelia, I do think she's much more interesting over the last couple of episodes.

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Team Catherine? As in team the person who might try to get a divorce null and void, as in team someone who might be trying to get a woman to do something against her will? Um okay

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Panic attacks by their very nature defy logic - I know from experience. So does tragedy coming back up at you in weird ways. I don't think Meredith's reaction was so strange.

 

I agree that panic attacks do not follow a set script, absolutely. I suppose you could say and do things that almost seem as if someone else is saying and doing them, not you. I'm sure someone with a better memory than I could answer this, but in the face of complete disaster/stress/crisis, has Meredith ever yelled and screamed? It would have been interesting, perhaps, to show Meredith waking up and seeing this sleeping, half-dressed man next to her, and then having a reaction other than the one she had. Lying there, almost paralyzed, trying to process the stimuli flooding her brain at that moment. The fear, the disgust, the shame, the guilt, the anger,  whatever emotions were hitting her at that moment. The inability to speak, yet the need to tell this person to get out, go, be gone. Just a different take on the scene, rather than the yelling, which led Maggie and Amelia to assume the very worst (which is understandable!).

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I agree that panic attacks do not follow a set script, absolutely. I suppose you could say and do things that almost seem as if someone else is saying and doing them, not you. I'm sure someone with a better memory than I could answer this, but in the face of complete disaster/stress/crisis, has Meredith ever yelled and screamed? It would have been interesting, perhaps, to show Meredith waking up and seeing this sleeping, half-dressed man next to her, and then having a reaction other than the one she had. Lying there, almost paralyzed, trying to process the stimuli flooding her brain at that moment. The fear, the disgust, the shame, the guilt, the anger,  whatever emotions were hitting her at that moment. The inability to speak, yet the need to tell this person to get out, go, be gone. Just a different take on the scene, rather than the yelling, which led Maggie and Amelia to assume the very worst (which is understandable!).

I think you are right, what you have described would have been more compelling to see and witness. I think Greys writers cannot pull it off,in decisive moments they go for cheap hysteric drama shenanigans.

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Meredith was actually able to say out loud, "I lost my husband and you're the first guy I've been with [even though we know they didn't have sex]

 

 

We do?  I thought Meredith and Thorpe did have sex, and that's what was "sooooooo goooood" and freaked her out.

Penny doesn't bother me at all.  Callie and Arizona suck as a couple, so I have no lingering desire to see them together, and would actually be irritated if they did get together, because they bring out the worst in each other. 

 

And Penny, herself, is generally calm, competent, NICE to people (even the ones who hated her just for showing up), and is capable of acting like an adult without going into hysterics every other moment.  To me, she's a great counterpoint to Callie's very BIG personality - i can see how Penny would ground her, while Callie injects some fun and excitement into Penny's world.

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I agree that panic attacks do not follow a set script, absolutely. I suppose you could say and do things that almost seem as if someone else is saying and doing them, not you. I'm sure someone with a better memory than I could answer this, but in the face of complete disaster/stress/crisis, has Meredith ever yelled and screamed? It would have been interesting, perhaps, to show Meredith waking up and seeing this sleeping, half-dressed man next to her, and then having a reaction other than the one she had. Lying there, almost paralyzed, trying to process the stimuli flooding her brain at that moment. The fear, the disgust, the shame, the guilt, the anger,  whatever emotions were hitting her at that moment. The inability to speak, yet the need to tell this person to get out, go, be gone. Just a different take on the scene, rather than the yelling, which led Maggie and Amelia to assume the very worst (which is understandable!).

 

I would have much preferred Meredith's sudden panic manifesting in her running out of the room/into the bathroom as the freakout overwhelmed her, made her hyperventilate even, and yelling at Thorpe through the door that she needed him to leave. But this screaming and shoving him out of her room, yelling at him to get out, yelling at Maggie to get him out of this house! was a wee bit too much.

 

Meredith was actually able to say out loud, "I lost my husband and you're the first guy I've been with [even though we know they didn't have sex]

We do?  I thought Meredith and Thorpe did have sex, and that's what was "sooooooo goooood" and freaked her out.

 

I agree, I thought it was clear that they did sleep together that night, and yes, the fact that it was actually quite pleasant was part of what made Meredith freak. She wasn't ready to enjoy herself with another man, wasn't ready to acknowledge to herself that she did in fact have a good time dating another man, spending the night with another man. She wasn't ready to be ready. She wanted to cling to the ratty blanket some more.

Edited by Chicken Wing
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I agree that panic attacks do not follow a set script, absolutely. I suppose you could say and do things that almost seem as if someone else is saying and doing them, not you. I'm sure someone with a better memory than I could answer this, but in the face of complete disaster/stress/crisis, has Meredith ever yelled and screamed? It would have been interesting, perhaps, to show Meredith waking up and seeing this sleeping, half-dressed man next to her, and then having a reaction other than the one she had. Lying there, almost paralyzed, trying to process the stimuli flooding her brain at that moment. The fear, the disgust, the shame, the guilt, the anger,  whatever emotions were hitting her at that moment. The inability to speak, yet the need to tell this person to get out, go, be gone. Just a different take on the scene, rather than the yelling, which led Maggie and Amelia to assume the very worst (which is understandable!).

 

I found that scene to be very much in character for Meredith. But from the promos I thought it was going to be more like when Mere and George slept together--- Mere starts crying/screaming right in the middle of sex. And as to the compulsive cleaning-- Mere was outwardly cleaning because she felt dirty inside. When she opened the oven door and the camera was shot from inside -- it was a metaphor for her vagina--- she needed to clean that shit! Also her obsessing about the spot in the carpet (obviously a very old spot which had gone unnoticed before) was her trying to scrub her soul --- which is now tainted by her "betrayal" to Derek. It all made sense to me. Plus on this show--- dear god every character is over the top dramatic.

 

Love Love Love Mere and Alex and their enduring relationship. Just continue to keep him away from that annoying thing he is dating and all is well in Grey's world IMO.

 

The soulless redhead remains on the show? Callie's new fuck? Say what? Oy.

 

Mama Avery is going to try to get full custody of that baby -- mark my words.

Edited by taanja
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Ah - OK - perhaps Meredith and Thorpe did indeed have sex. I thought I heard her say a few times, "Nothing happened," but I guess that meant, "He didn't do anything improper [without my consent]." Sorry!! Yes, the cleaning was totally symbolic of her cleansing herself of the experience.

Edited by Biggie B
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You know, honestly, it might be it. She's just pissed that April lied (or kept quiet about the pregnancy, rather) and wants to get back at her. It makes as much sense as anything else.

I can't really believe that Catherine's motive is to annoy April - not at this point in time. I could believe that down the road, after the pregnancy is over (whether there's a live baby or not), she would delight in being a thorn in April's side. But right now, April is carrying her grandbaby and stressing her out is not good for the grandbaby. It's one thing to put April through that stress if she has some kind of "greater goal" like forcing genetic testing or getting custody or whatever, but just to be annoying? At that point you could make an argument that she's trying to cause April to miscarry, and Grey's wouldn't go that far with Catherine.

 

We do?  I thought Meredith and Thorpe did have sex, and that's what was "sooooooo goooood" and freaked her out.

Penny doesn't bother me at all.  Callie and Arizona suck as a couple, so I have no lingering desire to see them together, and would actually be irritated if they did get together, because they bring out the worst in each other.

Amen. As boring and bland as I find Callie and Penny, I absolutely do not want Calzona back together, for the reasons you said. I was very happy in this episode to see that Arizona was totally fine with Penny meeting Sofia (with all that implies) and that she didn't give zero fucks when it became clear that not all was well in Callie and Penny's relationship. She didn't see it as an opportunity to potentially get back with Callie, she didn't take Callie's lie as a possible indication that she still has feelings for Arizona, she just wanted to be far away from the whole thing. Both Arizona and Callie seem totally over each other.

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I found that scene to be very much in character for Meredith. But from the promos I thought it was going to be more like when Mere and George slept together--- Mere starts crying/screaming right in the middle of sex. And as to the compulsive cleaning-- Mere was outwardly cleaning because she felt dirty inside. When she opened the oven door and the camera was shot from inside -- it was a metaphor for her vagina--- she needed to clean that shit! Also her obsessing about the spot in the carpet (obviously a very old spot which had gone unnoticed before) was her trying to scrub her soul --- which is now tainted by her "betrayal" to Derek. It all made sense to me. Plus on this show--- dear god every character is over the top dramatic.

 

 

Very on point what you wrote. Pure symbolism, hats off!

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I was annoyed with the whole "I don't want you/I'm not ready for you to meet Sofia" stuff and didn't like it that Penny went and apologized to Arizona for it. Even if Arizona really had a problem with it, well, it would only be her problem. Sofia was a patient and Penny treated her, because that's something that doctors do. As long she didn't tell her about her relationship with Callie, which she didn't, everything's fine.

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Catherine Avery just doesn't strike me as the type of person selfless enough to willingly give up her son's love and support at least for a while in order to make him happy in the long run. Also, it's very debatable is April is the right person for him and I'm sure she's aware of that.

She's up to no good. 

This has always been her m.o. though - she routinely blows into town and says/does things that annoy the fuck out of Jackson and are expressly against his wishes, simply because she believes she's doing whatever is best for him and that he'll see that eventually. She does not mind him being angry at her for stretches of time.

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Every time Catherine is in an episode I can't help but think - I wish someone else would take over the hospital and the docs would give up being board members. Cause its just so stupid and I've always hated that storyline. It just makes everything messy.

 

And also Penny go, please go far far away.

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This has always been her m.o. though - she routinely blows into town and says/does things that annoy the fuck out of Jackson and are expressly against his wishes, simply because she believes she's doing whatever is best for him and that he'll see that eventually. She does not mind him being angry at her for stretches of time.

 

Yes, but I don't see why she would think that staying with April at all costs would be the best for Jackson. It's not like he's heartbroken and miserable, he wanted the divorce and is doing fine without her. Besides, they were unhappy for a long time and they're clearly not compatible, which is something she had argued since the beginning. I don't think she'd move a finger to get them back together, let alone devise such an elaborate plan. 

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I just have no idea what Catherine's game is. We know she's cutthroat and even ruthless, but this just seems to be going too far. It was so ... yech. And being all syrupy sweet and understanding with April when all the while she was setting her up to screw her over somehow -- felt like I was watching the serpent in the garden of Eden. And really, what exactly is she after? How exactly does she think they're going to go after her? Because April allegedly committed fraud by not disclosing that she was pregnant (which April hadn't even confirmed yet that day, so have fun getting that point to hold up in court) before the divorce signing? And what if she did, what if that does technically constitute fraud? So? What is she trying to get out of her? To declare the divorce invalid? For what? To sue April? For what? She ain't got no money. To annoy her? Okay, fine.

 

My guess is that Catherine wants leverage for hammering out the custody agreement between Japril.  For example, she could threaten to pursue fraud charges against April unless April makes certain concessions about how much child support is paid, how custody time is shared, what religion (or non-religion) the child is raised, where the child is educated, etc., etc.  I can't imagine April demanding huge child support payments or denying Jackson shared custody, but the other issues like religion and education could be pretty contentious.  So I bet Catherine wants leverage.

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I think I've figured out how the Catherine plan is supposed to play out: it's going to be a paternity thing, about the kid's potential claims on the Avery fortune and all that, but really designed to somehow force an in utero paternity test that will also get the genetic screening done. And this works because the writers understand the law about as well as they do double-blind research procedures.

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My guess is that Catherine wants leverage for hammering out the custody agreement between Japril.  For example, she could threaten to pursue fraud charges against April unless April makes certain concessions about how much child support is paid, how custody time is shared, what religion (or non-religion) the child is raised, where the child is educated, etc., etc.  I can't imagine April demanding huge child support payments or denying Jackson shared custody, but the other issues like religion and education could be pretty contentious.  So I bet Catherine wants leverage.

 

Except ... that's between Jackson and April to fight about. If Jackson really could give a shit about taking April to court to force these things, what is Catherine going to do about it? It's not her baby, ergo she has no standing to make any claims or demands about anything. Legally this has nothing to do with her. All this only comes into play if Jackson hops on board her mustache-twirling craziness and makes her plans his plans and puts his own name to these things as his own wishes. Otherwise who cares what Grandma wants?

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I thought the same as many of you about Catherine - this is her attempt to get Jackson and April to reconcile. If she tried in a more motherly, nurturing and positive way, they both would think she had something up her sleeve. 

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Catherine Avery just doesn't strike me as the type of person selfless enough to willingly give up her son's love and support at least for a while in order to make him happy in the long run. Also, it's very debatable is April is the right person for him and I'm sure she's aware of that.

She's up to no good.

 

 

She might try to defame & discredit April as a person who is deceptive (ex. hiding the pregnancy before the divorce) and hysterical (ex. denial of potential condition of the baby) and tried to steal an Avery baby away from her son/her and then use all that as a way to sue for full custody.  She never really liked April and this would be the perfect reason for her to lay the hammer. Curse you show for making me sympathize with April. I wanted to be annoyed at April & Jackson for the way they handled their relationship, now I'm going to have to root for the underdog because Catherine is in to win. Run April!

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She might try to defame & discredit April as a person who is deceptive (ex. hiding the pregnancy before the divorce) and hysterical (ex. denial of potential condition of the baby) and tried to steal an Avery baby away from her son/her and then use all that as a way to sue for full custody. She never really liked April and this would be the perfect reason for her to lay the hammer. Curse you show for making me sympathize with April. I wanted to be annoyed at April & Jackson for the way they handled their relationship, now I'm going to have to root for the underdog because Catherine is in to win. Run April!

Actual she did like April. And talked to her on a regular basis. I remember Jackson asking April how often she spoke to his mother, when he realized they were frequently in touch" and she told him they were Facebook friends. She mentored April, bonded with April, tried to hook her up, talked to her about her sex life. She was clearly fond of her, it wasn't until she eloped with her baby boy, that she took issue, and even then other than that initial confrontation she was kind.

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I agree that Catherine liked April in the beginning, but that doesn't necessarily mean she'd want her to marry her son. And I can totally see Catherine as one of those mothers in law from hell who insist that no woman is ever good enough for their boy. 

Besides, she is very direct in her dealings with people. If she for whatever reason wanted Jackson and April to stay together, she'd come out and say it. 

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There were no witnesses to April testing for pregnancy. She could just say I took the test 5 minutes after signing the divorce papers anyway if push came to shove, couldn't she?

ETA unless Catherine had a microphone hidden somewhere

Edited by katycat74

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She could just say I took the test 5 minutes after signing the divorce papers anyway if push came to shove, couldn't she?

Since April has already told several people that she knew beforehand (Arizona, Catherine, Jackson, and perhaps Alex), she can't really expect that lie to fly.

 

Even with Catherine's underhandedness, I still am not feeling sorry for April. I didn't realize how much April has been getting on my nerves over the past few years -- I used to like Jackson and April together. Shonda will have to try harder to make me come around to April's side (and I am sure she will try!).

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I dunno all the legal crap but to make it legally fraud or whatever wouldn't April need to know know she was preggers which going by what she said to Arizona she didn't she just thought she might be pregnant, can she really be 'got after' for thinking that she's might be pregnant?

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Catherine was insistent that April sign a post-nuptial agreement.  So maybe there was provision in there about children & divorce etc. that is very beneficial to April.  That could be the "fraud" Catherine is talking about.

 

I never thought I'd say this in a million years, but I liked the Maggie/Amelia/Meredith/Alex stuff.  I was never crazy about it before it felt forced.  But this felt natural.  And Alex feels like their bro.  I enjoyed them sitting around, waiting for pizza feeling comfortable enough with each other to speak unvarnished truth.  Maggie wasn't neurotic (even though I kinda like her neurotic personality).  She just sounded like a woman who was disappointed.  Amelia wasn't annoying and seemed content in her choice. 

 

On a shallow note, I liked Steph's twist out.  I had to snort at Owen clutching his pearls at the "inappropriate" conversation . Dude, did you wander into the wrong show?  Oh, and by the way, why not go punch out your brother in law in the waiting room while you're at it. And we got kids sighting! The little actress that played Sofia was cute and the little girl who played Zola got lines too.

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I must not be a very good viewer. After the break, I could barely remember any of the plots. I was surprised in this last episode to realize that Richard and Catherine married, and I've watched every episode. Just can't commit this soap to memory. While I can comment on plot, I can't generate enough emotion to hate any one character. I like what they're doing with Amelia, though. I like the focus on different characters, because not one character is interesting enough to carry the show.

 

The Catherine thing....maybe they're setting her up to be rejected by Jackson and Richard. I'd be fine with that.

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Still having a hard time w/these latest episodes for some reason. I cannot stand Penny/Callie . . . there is absolutely no chemistry, no nothing. I was really hoping when Bailey gave that whole watching your daughter in the soccer match thing and who would you want to be there cheering her on, next to you, that Callie would think Arizona (I know, I know, I'm a sap, what can I say). Just nothing there between Callie and Penny at all.

 

I too thought that it would've been Arizona that she thought of. And I was NEVER a fan of Arizona (although she has grown on me this season) but I agree with 90% on the posters here.. Penny is dull dull DULL. I don't think the character brings anything to the table and I tune out whenever she's on screen.

 

As far as I know, there is nothing Jackson can do to make April do anything with her own body as long as she is recognized to be legally sane and competent to make her own medical decisions. 

 

The concept of "legally sane" may be the point of contention here. A poster in the last episode thread talked about questioning her sanity and I'm starting to wonder about it too. Maybe that is where they are going with the arc. That she isn't in her right mind.

 

I'm quite liking this season surprisingly. I was one who thought the show should've ended a few seasons ago but I have been proven wrong.

To those who think Mer didn't act like a sane person.... Meredith Grey is NOT SANE. NEVER HAS BEEN. I thought it was entirely keeping with the Mer we've known over the last couple years to completely freak out. And I'm glad to see them take a realistic stance about her still missing her husband 2 years later. I didn't think she was ready. Not saying she never will be, but Derek was her great love. She will never forget how much he meant to her and it will take her quite a while to move on from him. I also notice that they got Amelia to deal with the freak out in the way that Christina would've - just go with it. I was never a fan of Amelia's either (which annoys me because we share a name) but she has been toned down a lot since her relapse and I definitely appreciate it. Kudos to Maggie for dealing with DeLuca straight.... Although I do kinda get why it was too much for him. In some scenes I felt like I was looking at mother-and-son instead of bf/gf. But I actually think Maggie-the-Surgeon is kinda awesome and he would later come to regret that. 

Unpopular opinion... I'm grateful for the lack of Jo and Alex scenes. I am NOT a Jo fan but I've always loved Alex (ever since he played Massimo in the Wedding Planner... hehe) and I LOVE his scenes with Meredith. I think Jo is to Alex as Penny is to Callie.... soul-suckers.

Finally, I'm not sure where they're going with the Catherine Avery story but I've always love Mama Avery and I hope they don't make her a villain. While some may not like her ruthlessness, they're dealing with money in quantities that I can only ever dream of. That kinda richness can make you do some f-ed up things. But that woman that we saw during Samuel's death scene was not a monster and I don't want to tarnish that image.

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Actual she did like April. And talked to her on a regular basis. I remember Jackson asking April how often she spoke to his mother, when he realized they were frequently in touch" and she told him they were Facebook friends. She mentored April, bonded with April, tried to hook her up, talked to her about her sex life. She was clearly fond of her, it wasn't until she eloped with her baby boy, that she took issue, and even then other than that initial confrontation she was kind.

 

I remember Catherine was also extremely helpful with April when she was making her decision after they found out about the baby.  So I wouldn't have expected her to be so cold about this. 

 

Is she THAT mad at April for hurting Jackson that she wants to take her down?  Does she think April will try to keep Jackson away from his child after it's born, so wants to have ammunition to fight a paternity rights battle?  Is she playing reverse-psychology on Jackson to get him to fight FOR April?

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The concept of "legally sane" may be the point of contention here. A poster in the last episode thread talked about questioning her sanity and I'm starting to wonder about it too. Maybe that is where they are going with the arc. That she isn't in her right mind.

 

That was me!  You bring up an interesting point, because that would be one of the few reasons I believe Jackson might go along with a plan to try to take full custody of their child.  He's angry, but he's not malicious. 

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 Does she think April will try to keep Jackson away from his child after it's born, so wants to have ammunition to fight a paternity rights battle?

 

I think it might be the case. That April withheld information about her pregnancy (which is what seems to be what she's the most upset about) could for her be a sign that she's going to deny Jackson the parenting rights once the baby is born. It's a big assumption to make but it wouldn't be totally out of character, IMO. A woman like Catherine must have seen a lot of crazy stuff people are capable of and has thus developed sort of a protective mentality. 

 

And I also agree that she/they could argue that April is not mentally fit enough to solely make decisions concerning the baby's health. 

 

Basically, I think it's one of the following two: either she thinks April is not acting in the baby's best interest by refusing to get tested (but then again, it's a question how much she knows about it because Jackson apparently didn't say anything and it's doubtful that Richard knows all the specifics of the situation) or she's afraid that she won't let Jackson be involved when the baby is born.

I really, really don't think she's acting like a good fairy meddling in their business so they can see their undying love for each other and understand they should always be together. It would be majorly out of character for her and I'd be disappointed if the show went there. 

Edited by Joana
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The concept of "legally sane" may be the point of contention here. A poster in the last episode thread talked about questioning her sanity and I'm starting to wonder about it too. Maybe that is where they are going with the arc. That she isn't in her right mind.

 

That's going to be a losing battle then. There's a very not-even-remotely-thin line between making what some would consider a "crazy" choice and actually being legally insane. April's decision-making process is definitely suspect as of late, in many regards, but nothing she has done qualifies her as mentally incompetent. Even if one could argue that refusing to undergo genetic testing on the baby is, objectively, a bad health decision, the truth is that people have a right to make their own bad decisions. It would take a lot -- a lot a lot -- to argue that the person's bad decisions stem from their being literally insane or incompetent. April doesn't qualify. Being willfully ignorant and blindly optimistic doesn't make someone crazy. Naive, yes.

Edited by Chicken Wing
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I think April might be "insane with grief," but I don't think she's insane.  She seems to still be making decisions from a place of grief.  Situational depression? 

 

One thing that was crushing about Catherine's talk with April, is that it seemed like she was the first person to talk with her about her pregnancy in a kind way, in a way that it was about her pregnancy experiences, as a way of looking forward to a baby's arrival. 

 

April doesn't seem to have any friends right now she can talk with about "wow, I'm pregnant!" and how she feels.  Everyone has an opinion about it, but she doesn't have a person to talk to about swollen ankles.  April needs to join an online forum!

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To those who think Mer didn't act like a sane person.... Meredith Grey is NOT SANE. NEVER HAS BEEN. I thought it was entirely keeping with the Mer we've known over the last couple years to completely freak out. 

 

The thing is, it was all fine and cool and interesting while she was still an intern and had nothing to take care of except herself. But now she's a single mother of three children - the fact the writers love to play up when it's convenient for them but totally ignore otherwise - and she cannot afford to go on freaking out like that. It's awesome how Amelia apparently never even considered what happens to her brother's children if their mother goes nuts like that. 

If I witnessed my sister or a close friend lose it like that, I'd be scared shitless and demanded that she sees a therapist. Over here, it's no big deal, because, Meredith. 

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If Catherine tries to go after her two things could happen, April can always go and get an abortion just to have no more ties with the Averys and I'm sure Jackson would be happy with that or Catherine and co can cause her so much stress it endangered the baby health and cause April to miscarry. 

 

Catherine can't sue her while the fetus is a fetus... there is no baby, she and a judge can't force April to do anything. That include testing which has the chance to goes a miscarriage... April is getting her routine check-up so there no issue there. 

Edited by gator12

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Actually I don't think they've specified whether April's had a check-up, or even confirmed her pregnancy beyond the initial test she took. My guess is they're saving all that (including the drama of the first ultrasound) for the future. I don't believe they'd go there in a million years (and I follow spoilers/promo pics), but when April told Catherine she hadn't had any morning sickness, the phantom pregnancy speculation did come to mind...

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It's probably all just an excuse to throw out the Jackson/April divorce in time for a Very Special Childbirth and/or near-death event.

 

True, neither of them have had their own NDE yet, have they?

 

The only thing that even remotely makes sense to me is that she wants to prove that April is going against the baby's best interests by refusing to get tested and/or treated

April could beat that in court easily. Leaving aside the fact that she is the only one who gets to consent to medical procedures performed on her refusing testing at this stage isn't really that crazy. The chances that new baby has OI are about 1 in 20 000. The tests to diagnose at this point in her pregnancy have a .5% to 1% chance of miscarriage depending on which one they use. Refusing a relatively risky test to diagnose a relatively unlikely condition isn't a sign that she's not capable of making her own decisions, it's a sign she understands basic math.

And that brings me to my big pet peeve about this storyline. Arizona and Alex are pediatricians and they know the risks of CVS and amniocentesis. The fact that neither of them even considered that as a reason for April to refuse the test is crazy and unrealistic. They were talking about it like it was a blood draw and not something that could potentially end a likely healthy pregnancy.

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I never liked Catherine Avery but now she's crossed into the "person I hate the most on TV", and that's saying something.  I've always thought April was a waste of storytime but I feel so sorry for her now. She's literally got no one in her corner except possibly Riggs and Owen and I doubt either would put themselves out too much.

 

What is Catherine planning on doing now?  Taking April's baby away from her?  Forcing her to get tests?  Maybe annulling the divorce her son wanted? Let's traumatize the pregnant lady some more.   What a champ.

 

Mama Avery is going to try to get full custody of that baby -- mark my words.

To be raised by nannies?  Because even if she did love Jackson, she doesn't have a maternal bone in her body at this point that isn't fundamentally selfish. How is she going to raise a child at her age and given her professional responsibilities?  Not to mention how Richard is going to feel about it.

 

I have no idea how they are going to redeem her and I assume that Catherine isn't going anywhere since Debbie Allen has producer credits on this show.

 

The concept of "legally sane" may be the point of contention here. A poster in the last episode thread talked about questioning her sanity and I'm starting to wonder about it too. Maybe that is where they are going with the arc. That she isn't in her right mind.

While every person on this show acts crazy, if you're going for "legally sane", April definitely is, including refusing testing that may cause a miscarriage.  And I'd love to see Catherine try to prove she isn't because of her religion.  The right wing would have a hayday with it.

 

Speaking of sanity, I get it that Mer was supposed to be having a panic attack when she woke up beside Army Oncologist but the compulsive cleaning all day argues for a very serious psychological disorder. Since this is GA, it will all disappear never to be heard of again.

 

I hate the idea that the third date is the sex date, as Thorpe and Mer alluded to,  and you have to have sex with the other person.  So glad I'm not dating now.

 

So now everyone is single except Alex/Jo, who I like, and Callie/Penny who I loathe?  Other than the married people, that is.

Edited by statsgirl
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I am so on Team April. I wouldn't want an invasive test to determine if my fetus had a 2% chance of having a birth defect especially since we know that April is so anit-abortion. My body, my baby, my rules.

 

in a slightly differently way, I have stood in April shoes. 30 years ago, both my doctor and my ex-husband wanted me to abort because I had only 25% chance of delivering a health baby. I, like April, stood my ground, and did deliver a healthy baby girl.

 

One shallow thing, Callie's eyebrows should have a show of their own. They are so expressive.

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I didn't liked this episode on so many levels.

First and foremost where is Alex's story line? Where's Jolex? Where's Jo' screen time? I swear to god when Camilla and Jerrika joined the cast and were even made series regular they were never propped this much. No major characters were made look bad so they could be made look good. First they made look Meredith and Amelia look vengeful psychos so people could sympathies with Penny and now they made Callie a lying bitch so we could feel for Penny? Just ugh. And the actress Samantha always falls so flat when it comes to Sara as a screen partner. Sloyan was struggling so much when penny was yelling at Callie that I could actually point out the weak acting. And honestly Sara Ramirez is someone who can act without dialogues. She deserves actors that match her caliber. At least Jcap was an equal.

Loved the new Sofia by the way. I am glad she's talking and all. I wish the writers haven't been lazy and made her utter her correct name. Greys received a lot of backlash for that and rightfully so.

I would have been okay with Maluca not breaking u. Now they will draw it out and everything. I am glad Owmelia broke up for the 8th time. Both the break ups will walk into season finale I think. Yawn.

I don't like the idea of Meredith moving on as I am firm believer that if you had your great grand love story, and even if that person is not with you anymore, that love should be enough to spend rest of the life. I wouldn't mind casual hookups but they're building it to Meredith forgetting Derek and finding new love and that's just ugh.

When April was telling Catherine that she knew about her pregnancy before divorce, I knew Catherine was upto something. Still accusing her of fraud won't give Jackson any rights to the baby until the kid is born. The worse thing it can do is make April look like unfit as mother and even in that scenario, social services will lay claim first than Jackson. It will be interesting to watch I guess.

Ben is still holding some grudge, I bet it's gonna blow up.

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Alex's story line?

His only story line is to be Meredith's person. Its been that way since Cristina left. Even his surgery scenes have turned into just a place for the sisters to chat about themselves. Alex has been turned into a Meredith prop and sadly I don't think it will change. He's effectively Derek now - the male character that exists only to listen to Meredith with no POV or any real story of his own. 

Where's Jolex?

Back in S10, before Cristina left.

Where's Jo' screen time?

with Penny,Maggie,DeLuca, etc. who also have Bailey's, Richard's and Arizona's.

 

Question: if the date April knew of her pregnancy can be used against her in court would it matter if she knew via a home pregnancy test vs. an OB confirming it? Do we know if April saw a doctor or knew because she took the test at home? Just wondering if a home test would legally count as confirmation of her being pregnant.

Edited by windsprints
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Where's Jo' screen time?

with Penny,Maggie,DeLuca, etc. who also have Bailey's, Richard's and Arizona's.

 

And Callie's. 

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At least we know something is coming up for Callie, Arizona, and Bailey. Not to mention Ben, Stephanie, and probably Richard since Catherine has come on the scene. There has not been one word, hint or indication that anything is coming up for Alex, Jo or them as a couple, at least through episode 22.

And I don't see much changing next season either if JC stays, and I'm sure he will. I guess it's good enough that he is apparently happy offscreen, although we have no way of knowing if he's happy because he literally hasn't gotten a piece of dialogue about himself in over 5 episodes.

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There was a small part of me that when Bailey asked Callie who she saw in the future, cheering on Sophia, that Callie would think of Arizona. I know that ship has sailed many times ago but I still remember when they were my one of my favorite couples on this show. Like, I really liked them and then the show ruined them by having Arizona cheat with Peyton from one tree hill and then somehow decided that Arizona wasn't over losing her leg or something, even though we spent a whole season saying she was. But whatever. 

 

Amelia has been better but that's because a distinct lack of her shouting and screaming, I still don't like her but I can tolerate her. 

 

I love Alex, so yes, I would like more storylines for him but I have no feelings on Jo. And I've never been a fan of Jolex, l'm just not. It's not like I hate them or anything but they are just kind of there. I do like the Alex and Mer friendship, though. 

 

I don't know. I said it earlier in short snippets what I liked but the thing is, this episode much like the show..was kind of just there. I didn't hate it but I didn't love it and like the show right now, it's just...something that I am so used to watching, I watch. I think in an odd way the fact that none of the episodes have really polarized me, whether good or bad is a bad sign. The last one that probably really did was Derek's death episode and even though I was just mad about the way it was handled. Now it's kind of like, oh I may have liked that episode but it wasn't anything to talk about or I didn't like that episode but there is nothing to say, or just this episode..things happened which I liked and some things I didn't like, but aside from that..kind of.. just there. 

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I can't even begin to explain how pissed I am that they had the new Sofia actress declare her name as Sofia Sloan Torres. That is such a fuck you to lesbian/ non bio parents. I know some will say chill its not a big deal but it really is, Shonda herself has said in the past that Robbin Sloan is a middle name and to now forget the Robbin but make sure Sloan is mentioned is a total fuck you to Az/non bio parents. They should have either had her say her full name or Sofia Torres but this we must make sure to honour the bio parents and who cares about the non bio parent is awful.   

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The Revised Code of Washington explicitly states that you must inform the court if you are pregnant, so that may be where the fraud comes in. -- kashka

 

Question: if the date April knew of her pregnancy can be used against her in court would it matter if she knew via a home pregnancy test vs. an OB confirming it? Do we know if April saw a doctor or knew because she took the test at home? Just wondering if a home test would legally count as confirmation of her being pregnant.

 

Yes: when it comes to fraud, what counts is what April believed was true. Fraud obtains if she lied in point of fact, believed herself to be making a false statement, or simply acted with "reckless disregard" for the truth. The home pregnancy test results were plenty of grounds for her to have believed she was pregnant, at the same time she signed a dissolution agreement affirming she was not. And not just the test results -- also, the symptoms that prompted her to take the test.

 

Catherine was hunting for those symptoms with all her sympathetic questions to April: about the timeline (to establish how pregnant April was on the day of the signing), then about her morning sickness. April confirmed the first, said "no not really" about the second, then went ahead and unwittingly made Catherine's day.

 

My guess is that Catherine's angle is to convince Jackson to negate the decree -- along with the post-nup -- and/or perhaps threaten to sue April for damages. (She may even be able to do so without Jackson's agreement, if the marital financial arrangements involved a trust for which she is a trustee.) Probably not just to punish April, or teach Jackson a lesson, but as leverage toward securing for Jackson whatever custody terms Catherine wants. Although that too would serve to punish April and instruct Jackson, so for Catherine, win-win...

 

ABC, take note: across all her shows, it seems, this is the season that Shonda Rhimes gives note that women with power are not one whit more benevolent than men. Just savvier, and maybe, more chic.

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April did not sign an affirmation stating she was not pregnant, she signed the divorce agreement presented by Jackson. Standard divorce decrees do not have the person affirm pregnancy or lack thereof. Neither Jackson nor Catherine have cause for fraud simply because April is pregnant. Nothing has been asked of Jackson at this point, and there are no laws regarding a person becoming pregnant in the midst of a divorce, especially one filed by another party. If April denies paternity or visitation after the child is born, Jackson could sue for his rights as a father; but April cannot be accused of fraud by becoming pregnant.

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I have never liked Catherine. Why on earth did Richard marry her? He must be blind.

 

And she proved again she is despicable.

The way she went about to trick April, disgusting. How lower can you sink as a human? 

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