S04.E07: The Profit And The Loss

[formerlyfreedom]

In England, King Ecbert schemes to secure the crown of Mercia, while outside Paris, a considerable force of Vikings attack Rollo's defenses. Also, the mysterious wanderer Harbard returns.

 

 

 

[LittleIggy]

I HATE you, Rollo! You f**king traitor!

[whoknowswho]

I HATE you, Rollo! You f**king traitor!

:)

I love him but I hate him and I love him...vicious circle. 

[LittleIggy]

OMG! I was screaming expletives at Rollo during that whole battle sequence. Very cathartic! :-)

[whoknowswho]

Help me out--whose head was Ragnar talking to at the very end?

[Primetimer]

While Ragnar and the rest of the Vikings are away attacking Paris again, the she-folk keep themselves busy.

Read the story

[LiveenLetLive]

Help me out--whose head was Ragnar talking to at the very end?

I came here to ask that very question, LOL.

 

Once again the show does battle scenes really, really well. Poor Helga what a miserable short life...

[Nukester]

While I like Ragnar, I don't care much at all for Vikings, they are like the welfare of the ages. Produce nothing, take everything. I like seeing them die. Go Rolo. Believe it or not, I rather enjoy the politics of the period, it's interesting.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Well, that was an EPIC fucking Fail

RIP Helga..

At least you're in Valhalla with your daughter.

[whoknowswho]

I had to run to the bathroom during the Harbard/Floki/Aslaug threesome, and missed the happy ending. (Of that part) But I thought the head Ragnar was talking to, was either Harbard, or Half-Dan. But I really couldn't tell...it wasn't Rollo, right? I'll watch it again at 2:00 but someone would have rewatched the ending, I hope? 

[Ria]

Rollo was brilliant. Ragnar pathetic. Floki not dead enough.

[Straycat80]

The battle scene was intense and well done. Rollo took looking a gift horse in the mouth to a whole other level.

Poor Helga, I thought she was dead at first. I wonder if Ragnar and Floki will be friends again since Ragnar saved his life.

Is Harbard going to be the village gigolo while Ragnar and the Guys are gone?

I like that Queen Crazy Pants isn't going to be queen much longer. Can't wait to see her live up to her nickname.

I think the season finale will be Ragnar's friends and family having an intervention and sending him to a Viking rehab.

[Nukester]

Rollo was brilliant. Ragnar pathetic. Floki not dead enough.

Perfect post. :). Just glad it's gotten away from going the soft porn route for ratings. Now just want the civilized folks to thin this Viking ranks. Rather fun watching this for a completely different reason than it is produced.

I think the season finale will be Ragnar's friends and family having an intervention and sending him to a Viking rehab.

Yeah, that will go well. Lol. Funny post

[Straycat80]

Well, that was an EPIC fucking Fail

RIP Helga..

At least you're in Valhalla with your daughter.

I'm confused. I must have missed something. Is Helga dead? Why wasn't she burned with the rest of the bodies?

Who was the head Ragnar was talking to at the end?

[magdalene]

Help me out--whose head was Ragnar talking to at the very end?

Yes, who was that? Well, Ragnar is no Al Swearengen...

 

Helga died? I missed that.

 

I am kind of glad Rollo won one against his brother. First off, Ragnar has been so off his game and also because of actual European history this needed to happen.

[green]

Helga isn't dead. She is seriously wounded but not dead.

[whoknowswho]

Ragnar talking to the head, anyone? Who was it?

Helga's not dead, but she is not well, either.

Back to the head--who saw it?

Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio...

Carry on. 

[magdalene]

My wish of a pony and Floki dead still hasn't come true.

[benteen]

That battle scene was incredible, maybe the best one yet.  The water element in particular added so much.

 

Great episode!

[Knuckles]

Great battle scene...the burning ships and the chain...and the crossbow attack.  Vikings are a ruthless lot, and Ragnar has been on the winning side for a long time, no surprise the gods decided to humble him.  With Rollo's help.  Ragnar, Lagertha and Bjorn survive, as does the irritating Floki. Helga I thought was a goner.

And count me as a confused viewer...Floki and Aslaug and Habard?? That was Floki's imagination, or his vision of goings on back in Kattegut?

 

If Ecbert is taking Queen Crazy's crown,he should watch his back. She is not a calm and deliberative person, likely to take this news with a certain lack of grace.

 

And the Chinese drug dealer continues to annoy...so now she is concerned that his habit may be affecting his judgement? A little late for that. On a trivial note, did her hair cut ever get explained...why does she look like a 1920s film star.

[whoknowswho]

My wish of a pony and Floki dead still hasn't come true.

I have the ponehs--2 of them. But Floki is not dead, yet. Sorry... :(

 

All in all--it was a great episode--Ragnar's really struggling--it's blatantly obvious that his control is slipping away, and yeah--he certainly could be on "Celebrity Intervention, Vikling Edition". He is fumbling everything, his drug addiction is out of control and it's sad because it is life in the real world, too.

King or Serf, addiction is addiction. 

 

Rollo has come into his own. He has a new life, he has power, wealth, high standing in this new community of Frankia--everything he ever wanted. And the hot chick too. I'm ok with that, las ong as he doesn't mess with Lagertha. People screw over people, most especially family members all the time- you can draw parallels with "W"'s story of his Mercian family, and with his new alliance to Ecbert.

 

Please don't let Helga die, she is my favorite character next to Lagertha.  She has tended to all of them through the years--healing Lagertha, Ragnar, and was it Rollo or Floki on the first or second season? At least it seems to me she has always been the village doctor/nurse. I remember her cauterizing somebody a couple years ago. There's nothing left for Floki and a part of me feels kind of bad, and wants Helga to live. 

Great battle scene...the burning ships and the chain...and the crossbow attack.  Vikings are a ruthless lot, and Ragnar has been on the winning side for a long time, no surprise the gods decided to humble him.  With Rollo's help.  Ragnar, Lagertha and Bjorn survive, as does the irritating Floki. Helga I thought was a goner.

And count me as a confused viewer...Floki and Aslaug and Habard?? That was Floki's imagination, or his vision of goings on back in Kattegut?

 

If Ecbert is taking Queen Crazy's crown,he should watch his back. She is not a calm and deliberative person, likely to take this news with a certain lack of grace.

 

And the Chinese drug dealer continues to annoy...so now she is concerned that his habit may be affecting his judgement? A little late for that. On a trivial note, did her hair cut ever get explained...why does she look like a 1920s film star.

I think Ragnar chopped it when she was in the bath--I was bored but vaguely remember him cutting her ponytail off. 

[LOA-maker]

i loved this. great on many levels, best of the season thus far. a mix of hot and cold, but really good.

 

Ragnar and Bjorn's rage at Rollo's betrayal was sweet, as was Lagertha's. And Gisla seeing how Viking women are not put down like in Francia.

 

Not sure why Yidu is doping up Ragnar, but I think it's at his insistence. He needs that dope to feel grounded, and he even seems a bit addicted to it. I think Yidu either didn't realise it, or did as he wanted since he owned her and had no choice.

 

Not sure what or who Harvard really is.....a god in disguise? How did he know the woman would have kids? But then little Sigurd has something to tell Daddy once he and his bros come back lol.... And sex between Floki and Aslaug? it was a dream? 

 

King Ecbert is a shit imho, but then it's clear he wants to rule all of England, and he's got the consent from this Wigstan fellow. Looking forward to the confrontation between him and Ragnar, he needs fucking up on many levels...

 

And no Ivar this episode, probably got sent to his room without dinner since he killed a kid last week. ;)

 

Must say I was vouching for Rollo in this brotherly battle......and loved it when the ships caught fire. lol.

[magdalene]

Helga is played by one of the daughters of the producer - I am hoping because of the family connection she will continue to be on the show.  I like Helga very much and her actor brings such humanity to the role.

[LOA-maker]

While I like Ragnar, I don't care much at all for Vikings, they are like the welfare of the ages. Produce nothing, take everything. I like seeing them die. Go Rolo. Believe it or not, I rather enjoy the politics of the period, it's interesting.

 

Yep, like many words in the English language...oh and got to North America long before Columbus did.....oh, and trial by jury....no pie in the "sky" stuff lol.. 

I HATE you, Rollo! You f**king traitor!

I loved him this ep......if him being Duke and banging Gisla and fulfiling the Seer prophecy means his bro gets fucked over, so be it.

[magdalene]

That was the poem from the first season Rollo was reciting, under very different circumstances this time. 

[DaBigDave]

Aslaug suspects that Harbard is one of the Gods. Possibly Odin.

[Andromeda]

I loved seeing the Vikings get their asses handed to them. Quit picking on Paris! Yes, Rollo is a traitor, but I still found myself on his side. Despite being fascinated by their culture, I just can't get behind all the raiding the Vikings do. (Turned out not to be a sustainable way of life, either.)

Now, did the Chinese slave get him addicted to opium (or betel nuts, according to a previous thread) on purpose, or not? (And where did she source it? This question bugs me; neither plant would grow in Scandinavia, and slaves don't generally come with accessories like a boxed action figure.) Being back so near Paris, I expected her to melt into the forest and disappear when the camp was attacked. Or is being Ragnar's love slave really worth her freedom (yeah, right)?

Edited April 1, 2016 by Andromeda

[DHDancer]

Best episode of this season so far.  Battle scene terrific (I remembered there was going to be a chain...)

 

Am I the only person irritated beyond irritation at the # of ad breaks History Channel inserts?  

[hincandenza]

Aslaug suspects that Harbard is one of the Gods. Possibly Odin.

I think it was established last season that Harbard is actually magical, not just a slick wandering con-artist, right?  I vaguely recall him doing some things that were unquestionably supernatural.  Which sheds Aslaug in a somewhat better light, because he has some tangible and real connection to the gods.  I mean, it's still no excuse for every wanton tart in Kattegat to go spreading her legs for any two-bit class IV corporeal manifestation that saunters into town, but "is a Norse deity" seems like a candidate for the 9th-century Scandinavian celebrity cheat list.

 

At this point they're being pretty blatant that Floki's journey is about to turn super mystical, adding to the sizable evidence pile his apparent psychic connection or "oneness" with Harbard during that outdoors sex scene. Either he's going to be another seer, or he is connected to Loki somehow; perhaps Loki "inhabits" multiple people, like Harbard and Floki, who gain a growing awareness of their direct connection with a god (those two would make good Jaeger pilots, I'll bet).  Heh, and eventually Floki would be like Harbard, a wandering mystery man with a touch of insanity who can see the future and do magical things, but also causes mischief in small villages and towns across the land.  I smell a spin-off!  We could call it "Kung Floki"... :)

 

That battle scene was fantastic.  Honestly, this show does better battle scenes than the vastly higher budgeted "Game of Thrones".  They can't always do huge set pieces- although the siege on Paris last year was unbelievable- but the camera work and unblinking stare at the ungraceful deaths of so many people has a starker, grittier realism, and really makes the whole scene so much more impactful.  You gotta hand it to Rollo, though, that was a great friggin' plan; they pulled it off to perfection.  He of all people would know the tricks and techniques and be able to devise a brutal cover-all-bases scheme.  I can picture Rollo and Odo pacing around those marshes months ago, and having a cadre of laborers make it even more of a quagmire at strategic spots.  When they put up the shield wall in the boats, I realized how smart the plan was in using the Vikings own tactics against them: the archers weren't so much to actually attack the boats, but to keep them huddled under cover just as Rollo knew they would, so they couldn't see and react to the chain until it was too late. Then, log jam plus boat fires results in an utterly disastrous retreat.  What did the French lose, like three people?  Maybe now the Emperor can finally get a good night's rest.

 

I actually like when the show has a perspective that isn't as one-sided, and becomes more like, well, watching History.  :)  Like so many shows before with anti-hero protagonists have sadly demonstrated, if you blur that line between fascination and glorification too much, the characters can suffocate the story.  Ragnar and company have been on such a roll for so long, a big comeuppance is strangely enjoyable even for the show's "heroes"- and happily there was no meta commentary like a somber soundtrack or too much unrealistic monologuing.  I appreciate being able to watch an episode with a detached perspective, not "rooting" for anyone as much as unable to look away from the cruel inventiveness of human war making. 

[Lamima]

I loved seeing the Vikings get their asses handed to them. Quit picking on Paris! Yes, Rollo is a traitor, but I still found myself on his side. Despite being fascinated by their culture, I just can't get behind all the raiding the Vikings do. (Turned out not to be a sustainable way of life, either.)

Now, did the Chinese slave get him addicted to opium (or betel nuts, according to a previous thread) on purpose, or not? (And where did she source it? This question bugs me; neither plant would grow in Scandinavia, and slaves don't generally come with accessories like a boxed action figure.) Being back so near Paris, I expected her to melt into the forest and disappear when the camp was attacked. Or is being Ragnar's love slave really worth her freedom (yeah, right)?

She is a princess in China, no? She said her father is the Emperor so I assumed she was sent there with the drugs (whatever they are) to do what she's done...mess up the Viking king or maybe get him to marry or have a child with her. 

[Haleth]

I HATE you, Rollo! You f**king traitor!

Why is he a traitor?  For not allowing the Vikings to sack his city and murder his people?  For defending his wife and her family?  Had he betrayed Paris after pledging his loyalty he would have been a traitor.

 

The whole battle sequence was fantastic, especially the ships crashing and overturning.  I was so afraid for Lagertha and her shield maidens getting stuck in the mud.  Did Erlander survive?  I didn't see him afterwards.  Poor Helga.  I hope she makes it since she is the one character who is consistently good hearted.  I was glad to see the young boys come out of the woods and first hug their dad, then their big brother.

 

I continue to hate seeing addicted Ragnar.  It's great that Fimmel gets to flex his acting muscles with a different sort of storyline, but it's not fun to watch Ragnar behave so uncharacteristically.  Maybe now that Yidu claims the stuff is gone Ragnar can get it out of his system and go back to leading his people with strength and wisdom.  Calling on Lagertha and Bjorn to get him clean.

What the heck was going on with Floki/Aslaug/Harbard?

 

I mean, it's still no excuse for every wanton tart in Kattegat to go spreading her legs for any two-bit class IV corporeal manifestation that saunters into town, but "is a Norse deity" seems like a candidate for the 9th-century Scandinavian celebrity cheat list.

 

Ok, this cracked me up.  Talk about your pick-up lines!  

 

Wessex/Mercia continues to be a different show.  And not nearly as interesting.

[dmc]

Could Ragnar be any less unprepared for this battle? The drugs are getting to him.

Rollo's conversation with Gisla about Lagertha- he is still into her

[Babalooie]

I'm now on the fence as to whether Floki is the new Seer or Loki.  That threesome scene lends itself to some kind of seer-like ability to see/sense things going on in other places.  Confusing.  Regarding Helga, she is played by Maude Hirst, whose father is MIchael Hirst, the creator and writer of Vikings and The Tudors.  I wouldn't think that she or her sister who plays Torvi, would get written out unless they had some big time-consuming projects elsewhere.

[Ohwell]

Wow, what an intense episode.

 

I'm truly conflicted about Rollo/Paris and Ragnar/Vikings.  I mean, the Vikings are the ones attacking Paris, and I understand Rollo and the Franks (French/) having the perfect right to defend themselves. However, I hate Rollo and his smug face now, and I so wanted Princess Mushmouth to get an arrow through the eye when she was standing up there with him.  Hell, I like Odo better. 

 

Helga's not dead yet, is she?  I thought when Floki left her in the tent he said something about hoping some medicine or herb would heal her.  I'd hate to see her go because, if ever there was a ride or die chick, it was her.

 

Big, dirty Habard, aka Johnny Appleseed, is spreading his seed all around Kattegut.  So, in about nine months we can expect a litter of big, dirty babies.

 

I wasn't too impressed with Ecbert's trip to Mercia but we'll see what comes of that.   

 

I still hate the Chinese chick.  Hell, with all the fighting going on she could have just run away if she was just a poor slave.  She doesn't look Viking, and maybe if she'd held her hands up and yelled "I'm a slave!" the French soldiers would have rescued her.    

[ShannaB]

 

I still hate the Chinese chick.  Hell, with all the fighting going on she could have just run away if she was just a poor slave.  She doesn't look Viking, and maybe if she'd held her hands up and yelled "I'm a slave!" the French soldiers would have rescued her.   

   

 

If I remember correctly, Ragnar 'freed' her when he took her to his 'private hut of peace'. 

[mwell345]

This is the first episode this season that made me feel like the Vikings show I know and love is back.  It was interesting to see that Ragnar is fallible, and Bjorn knows it.  Also, that Ragnar saved Floki - only to discover that Helga is either dead or dying - not really clear on her status.   Floki seems to think she's alive, but I'm pretty sure Floki believes what he wants to believe. 

 

Still not liking Slave Girl.  At all. 

 

I also want to add that I think Fimmel's acting this season is not up to par with previous seasons.  I don't know, something seems off.  It could be the way they're writing him and that I'm not used to seeing this drugged up, bumbling Ragnar.  

[Marianne]

While I like Ragnar, I don't care much at all for Vikings, they are like the welfare of the ages. Produce nothing, take everything. I like seeing them die. Go Rolo. Believe it or not, I rather enjoy the politics of the period, it's interesting.

The "welfare of the ages"?  "Produce nothing , take everything"?  Not sure that I find your analogy valid.

Of course, the politics of the period involve elites enslaving and impoverishing the great masses of people in order to amass power and wealth.  Hasn't it always been so?

[LiveenLetLive]

 

I wouldn't think that she or her sister who plays Torvi, would get written out unless they had some big time-consuming projects elsewhere.

Well that explains why Helga and Torvi look so much alike. Yes, it is nepotism but they are good in the roles (especially Maude--I had an aunt with that name, so old fashioned!) So none of us know whose head that was eh?

[magdalene]

To me Rollo did not look smug at all, he looked determined but somewhat conflicted as he was implementing the various stages of his plan.

[Babalooie]

LiveenLetLive, in one of the many reviews I read this morning, it was said that it was just a "random head".

[BitterApple]

I agree this was the best episode of the season.

Drugged up Ragnar is clearly losing his edge and Bjorn knows it. I'm wondering if this is a set up for Ragnar's eventual demise and a regime change in Kattegat. At this point, I think Bjorn has come into his own and the show could survive minus Ragnar.

I'm utterly confused on the Aslaug/Floki/Harbard threesome.

Like most of you, I was kind of happy to see the Vikings get a dose of their own medicine. One of the main things I like about this show is the fact that the main characters aren't exactly the good guys. It's a lot more realistic and compelling than a nice, neat heroes vs. villains theme.

[MrsR]

I call bullshit on a Mercian mausoleum. My Anglo Saxon archaeologists heart broke a little bit there.

Loved the episode. Wish Lageartha had killed Erlender in the muck and mire while she had the chance.

Glad to see Kevin Durand having fun playing something other than a cold hearted mercenary.

 

PS. AS for the Vkings contributions I wouldn't call York, Dublin and Iceland  nothing!

Edited April 1, 2016 by MrsR

[Cheetosandchoc]

I think Harbard is Viking Rasputin.

Edited April 1, 2016 by Cheetosandchoc

[LiveenLetLive]

 

I'm utterly confused on the Aslaug/Floki/Harbard threesome.

I'm in the Floki is "mystical" camp on this issue.

[Nukester]

The "welfare of the ages"?  "Produce nothing , take everything"?  Not sure that I find your analogy valid.

Of course, the politics of the period involve elites enslaving and impoverishing the great masses of people in order to amass power and wealth.  Hasn't it always been so?

 

Yes it has.  But is wasn't covered up in the past.  It was for all to see.  Well about the Vikings being the welfare people of that time period.  I guess it makes a good analogy.  They really are not producers, but just take from civilizations that do produce and build.  They live like rats, tattoo and treat their bodies like shit.  In many ways maybe they are worse.  

 

It was so nice seeing Paris defend itself this time.  Properly.  I don't really care for Rollo and the whole love shack thing, but it was the right thing to do.  

 

Now, I am not ignorant.  The "Christians" of that time period were utterly brutal, terrible.  No better than how Vikings treated those that didn't believe in their God(s).  I've never liked religious prosecution of any sort.  It's a private thing that should be kept at home.  

 

In some ways, society hasn't improved much since those times, just more secretive.

[TaurusRose]

I don't have cable, so I have to wait until the next day to watch Vikings on the History channel. The upside, though, is no commerical interruptions. LOL

Most of my thoughts have already been addressed, so I'll just touch on a few things.

Other than Rollo being easy on the eyes, I've never really thought much of the character; his current role in Frankia has only increased my dislike of him. Up thread someone rationalized his behavior, but I have to agree with the OP. From the Vikings' POV, he is a traitor. He was not left behind to ingratiate himself with the elite of Frankia or win himself a prominent bride. The fact that he does all of these things, and fulfills his destiny, doesn't belie the fact that he turned against his own people. That said, the battle scene was fantastic on every level. I knew Ragnar and company were going to get their asses handed to them in a fight on water, but the land counterattack was unexpected and brilliant. When is Bjorn going to become the official leader of the Viking raiders? Clearly, Ragnar is out of his depth now and his warriors are suffering because of it.

Princess Mushmouth. Gah! I really don't like her and was glad she got to see for herself that shield maidens don't dress up in useless fashion armor and stand on top of a tower to watch the battle; they actually fight and die to defend their beliefs. You really don't want to meet Lagertha, MM. She'd clean your clock without breaking into a sweat. And can someone explain why Odo doesn't have a hand? Did I miss that scene somewhere? And who was the dude that led the attack on the Viking women and children? <sarcasm>He was a stunning example of heroism, wasn't he?</sarcasm> I still don't know what purpose Yidu serves other than being Ragnar's pusher. Now that she's back on Frankian soil, can't she just run away or something?

I also don't understand why Habard keeps showing up in Kattegat when all the men are out on raiding parties. And what's with seducing all the women? Everybody seems under a spell whenever he shows up and at the moment, he is looking like nothing more than a horny opportunist (magical person or not). Looks like Bjorn may be playing the long con with Erlunder and I can't wait to see how that plays out. Finally, Loki got a glimpse of what's going on in Kattegat. Huh. What does it mean? Wessex, once again, was the boring part of the episode for me. I am so over Mercia and King Ecbert. Still, The Profit and The Loss was the best episode to date.

[Knuckles]

"the Vikings being the welfare people of that time period."

 

Calling the Vikings "welfare people" strikes me as misguided. They were farmers and fishermen initially...but Scandinavia has poor, rocky soil, and their need to fish led them to develop their boats...which were at the time an enormous technological advance. Western Europe is riven with rivers that drain directly into the sea...and their flat-bottomed boats that could still navigate rough ocean waters were ideally suited to be oared upriver to attack all the many trading cities that had developed. They were also able to sail out to the Georgian banks for rich fishing...something New Englanders do today. They were also explorers...setting out to Ireland, Iceland and founding either settlements or transitional camps in Newfoundland  (that finding courtesy of the U of Alabama professor who uses satellite tech to spot ruins). They had a fully developed spiritual world, complete with gods and myths, and their poetic sagas endure. As for raiding, or viking, you could think of it as aggressive capitalism...or just the age-old human story of an aggressive people taking from those who could not adequately defend themselves. 

We use the phrase corporate raiders...you could substitute corporate Vikings.

[LittleIggy]

"Why is he a traitor? For not allowing the Vikings to sack his city and murder his people? For defending his wife and her family? Had he betrayed Paris after pledging his loyalty he would have been a traitor."

He is a traitor to his Viking people. He betrayed his own people! He attacked and massacred the Vikings who were left there in Frankia. Murdered Viking men, women, and children -- his own people -- in a dastardly manner. That's why he is a traitor.

Yeah, I would love for Gisla to meet Lagertha. She would leave with her head in her hands after Lagertha got through with her.

[Ohwell]

Well that explains why Helga and Torvi look so much alike. Yes, it is nepotism but they are good in the roles (especially Maude--I had an aunt with that name, so old fashioned!) So none of us know whose head that was eh?

Heh, I had an aunt named Maude, too.

[Marianne]

.  Well about the Vikings being the welfare people of that time period.  I guess it makes a good analogy.  They really are not producers, but just take from civilizations that do produce and build.  They live like rats, tattoo and treat their bodies like shit.  In many ways maybe they are worse.  

 

 

 

Now, I am not ignorant.  The "Christians" of that time period were utterly brutal, terrible.  No better than how Vikings treated those that didn't believe in their God(s).  I've never liked religious prosecution of any sort.  It's a private thing that should be kept at home.   

 

 

O.K., first, I didn't initially express myself well because I was lazy and trying to be sarcastic. 

 

My problem with the original comment was the characterization of welfare "people" as taking everything, not producing anything.  I think that's an incredibly inaccurate and heartless characterization of modern welfare recipients.  Apparently, some see these people simply as lazy "takers"  Kind of a Mitt Romney view of the world.  In fact,  I think differently of a modern welfare system, such as ours,  that's part of a social safety net, and I think differently of those people who benefit from it.    But then, your present comment is even worse:  apparently welfare recipients, like the Vikings, live like rats, tattoo their bodies, etc.  Frankly, I'm stunned at these comments.  

 

Finally, let me just note that it's religious PERsecution (not prosecution) you don't like.  Great!  Also, I assume you think religion, not the religious persecution, is a "private thing that should be kept at home."