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Tara Ariano

S11.E17: Red Meat

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Don't forget Dean's two broken ribs. When he hopped in the Impala so casually at the end, I was thinking 'wow, that should hurt.'. Guess there was a liberal application of the CW's magic wound cream.

 

Eh, my mom tripped on a curb and broke a rib a few weeks ago, and when she finally went to the doctor, he said that he wasn't even going to bother with an X-Ray or MRI or anything because there was nothing to be done about it except to just wait for it to heal, anyway. And he's a pretty good doctor. What else were they really going to do for Dean? Sam, on the other hand...you'd think that a gunshot wound would require more help, especially since Dean dug around inside him to get out the bullet (!) and it seemed like he maybe didn't even get stitches? They probably should have ended the episode with Sam still in bed at the clinic instead of getting into the car. But I guess on a show where magic is real, you can't have too many complaints about logistical realism! And honestly, it's OK with me that the guys inexplicably have Buffy's healing skills. I don't mind hand-waving that stuff. YMMV.

 

Anyway, medically speaking, what I was most worried about was actually that even if the doctor saved Dean's life, he would have ruined his kidneys with all those pills. His poor kidneys.

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My fanwank is that when Cas resurrected Dean in season 4 he infused his organs with enough grace to self heal, possibly by accident. He doesn't really do anything by halves, we saw that gravesite, overkill much?

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Based on what Dean did the last time Sam was close to dying, I was surprised that Sam wasn't more paranoid about Dean's actions this time.  Just because he's forgiven Dean for hijacking him with an angel wouldn't mean he's forgotten it.

 

 

 

If Sam truly has worry or paranoia at heart that Dean will do that again, he  really oughtn't be around Dean anymore for his own sake. And he needs to make sure Dean never knows where to find him should Sam be at death's door.

 

 

That does make me curious what Sam will do the next time he sees a truly dead!Dean. I don't think Sam has seen Dean really truly mostly dead since Dean was killed by Metatron. And at that time he summoned Crowley. Who knows what deal Sam was going to make.

 

Sam has every right to be upset with Dean for that but Sam's hands aren't particularly clean of 'Save Dean, Damn the Consequences" he's just never been faced with the option of possession to save Dean's life.

 

When Dean was dying in Faith, he took him to a faith healer and might have been okay with Julie Benz dying in favor of Dean. When Dean was dying in s2, Sam was trying to find a supernatural way to save him. Sam did whatever he had to find the Trickster and make a deal with him to bring Dean back. Sam was willing to make whatever deal to get Dean out of Hell. Sam was a party to the selling of a human soul and the murder of an immortal human to remove the Mark from Dean's arm.

 

So yeah, I'm really curious if Sam is going to be able to let Dean die without any supernatural intervention or if Sam will let Dean die so it does save ALL the people or will he let other people die to save Dean?  It seems to me, they can't have Sam state that as the premise of the season and not have him faced with the decision. 

 

 

My fanwank is that when Cas resurrected Dean in season 4 he infused his organs with enough grace to self heal, possibly by accident. He doesn't really do anything by halves, we saw that gravesite, overkill much?

 

 

He must have lost the ability to self heal in On the Head of a Pin because Cas couldn't fix him and Dean almost died but for actual literal hospitalization!

Edited by catrox14

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He must have lost the ability to self heal in On the Head of a Pin because Cas couldn't fix him and Dean almost died but for actual literal hospitalization!

Pfft..... details, logic or common sense have no place in my fanwank. ; )

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Pfft..... details, logic or common sense have no place in my fanwank. ; )

 

It could be like everything else on this show, though: works without fail, except when it doesn't. ;)

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Unfortunately, this episode doesn't really stand up to a lot of scrutiny.  While in the midst of watching it, I was caught up in all of the drama and didn't think about the plausibility of what was happening, but now that it's settled in a bit, it does seem to require a bit more "suspension of disbelief" than normal.  I mean the boys get beaten up and tossed around pretty much every episode, so we're pretty immune to it by now, but what happened in this episode was definitely extreme.  Sam was shot at point blank range in the stomach, was immediately bleeding from his mouth, but yet didn't suffer any internal injuries?  He lost 2 quarts of blood and was still able to get around, fight off werewolves, drive a car, etc., and only needed a quick blood transfusion and a few stitches and he was good to go?  Dean was beaten up, then tased, had broken ribs and a concussion, OD'd on pills, was technically dead at one point according to the doctor, and was good as new just a few hours later.  They do have amazing recuperative abilities.

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Of course I knew that Sam and Dean wouldn't die, but there were a couple of scary moments in this episode.  When Sam was being smothered, that was truly horrifying.  It seemed very real and his brief moment of panic just before, when he realized what was about to happen, was very well played.  I also thought it was pretty terrifying when Billie told Dean she was going to reap him and take him to The Empty.  The Empty just sounds so foreboding.

 

I don't know if I think Dean is suicidal, but I do think he is in a major state of depression that has been building throughout this season.  He's broken and the shit just keeps piling on.  I think his "connection" with Amara and his lack of control around her has really messed him up.  However I think it may not be so much that he feels he can't fight her, but rather that he thinks that he may help her.  I hope that Dean will be the one who stops her, because for whatever reason, he's the only one who can.

 

It does seem that they are foreshadowing, not subtly, that someone is going to have to die for the greater good this season.  This episode, along with the vision Dean had in Safe House, implied to me that Dean is going to have to let Sam go.  It's like he's being prepared for it, first with a vision of dead Sam, then with what he thought was actual dead Sam.  After this episode, the next time Sam dies he may be less inclined to do something rash.

 

Normally I am not bothered by the medical miracles that occur on this show, but I had a harder time suspending disbelief in this episode.  I work in the medical field, albeit not with humans, but having some medical knowledge can make it hard to look past some things.

 

--I will never understand why people on TV always want to immediately remove bullets from wounds.  You should never remove an object, like a bullet or knife, from a wound.  It could be preventing major blood loss and digging around for it is just going to cause more damage and increase the chance for infection.  Doctors leave bullets in people all the time.

 

--Shock won't cause the heart rate to slow down, it would be more rapid, but it would cause a weak or absent pulse, which someone might not be able to detect, making the person seem dead.  This would have been a better explanation for why Sam seemed dead.  Also if Sam was in shock, whatever type, I don't think he could have recovered from that state without some type of medical intervention, let alone walk around and fight werewolves.

 

--Dean apparently took two different drugs, at least one of which was some type of barbiturate.  I'm assuming the other one was an opiate, since the doctor gave him Narcan.  I could be wrong, but I don't think there is any type of reversal drug for barbiturates.  After they revived him they should have pumped his stomach, given him charcoal and kept him on IV fluids to help flush out his kidneys.

 

--I don't think they should have put Dean on his back.  He was vomiting and foaming at the mouth, so being on his side was preventing him from aspirating fluid into his lungs.  I'm not sure why they wouldn't be able to find a vein with him lying on his side.

 

--A doctor would never stab someone in the chest with a syringe of Epinephrine.  Ideally they would give it intravenously or into an endotracheal tube.  If they were going to inject it directly into the heart they wouldn't just stab the person, they would find the proper location and carefully insert the syringe into the heart.

 

-- I don't believe Sam could have been shot where he was without some type of internal damage requiring hospitalization.

Edited by BlueMeanie
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EW article

Quote

There are, however, episodes that feel like a new kind of Supernatural episode, and that’s what “Red Meat” was this year. “Red Meat” saw Sam and Dean fighting a pack of werewolves — not uncommon for them — but the thing that was uncommon: Sam is shot within the first five minutes of the episode. And the rest of the episode is spent watching Dean try to save the lives of a couple they’ve met while also making sure his brother’s okay. It was one of the series’ slowest and tensest hours. And it worked.

I really have to disagree.  If it had been done in a way that I could believe it...I guess.  I didn't have a problem with how it started.  Or even with Dean thinking that Sam was dead.  But how Sam could suddenly save not only himself but Dean while at Death's door...I guess if I think of it as a fanfiction story with the idea of whumping both main characters I would enjoy it more.  I'll see if I enjoy it on rewatch but for now I can't say it was one of the best of season 11.  JMO

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I was just going through my episodes one last time before deleting, and came upon this episode. It was written by Berens and Dabb. So it got me to thinking - which one of those two think Sam is "Superman" and Dean would rather go off into "The Empty" to be with his brother if he can't bargain for his brother's life here in this world. Really sad in my book. Frankly, I'm surprised I didn't delete it after the first viewing. And as an aside, I'm hoping this isn't Dabb's influence or we could have a really one-sided season ahead. JMO

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2 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Dean would rather go off into "The Empty" to be with his brother

They've (TPTB) made this seem like it's their only option.  It's not, they could just refuse to go with Billie completely.  Unless they're going to now have reapers forcing souls to come with them even if they don't want to, which seems against reaper code.  Considering the reaper lore has been torn to shreds, I guess anything's possible.  But Billie did hold out her hand, waiting for Dean to accept it, instead of just hauling him away.

 

2 hours ago, FlickChick said:

Frankly, I'm surprised I didn't delete it after the first viewing.

I just rewatched this last night, and I was surprised by how much I liked it.  Maybe it was just seeing that Sam's shoes were scuffed and worn on the bottom, and his clothes were actually DIRTY for once.  I read somewhere else in these forums that lately it seems their clothes (and them) are way too clean most of the time for what they do.  Watching "Lazarus Rising" I could see the dirt under Dean's nails, and I realized I kind of missed that.

Do I buy Super!Sam?  Eh, kind of, with a little handwaving and maybe if I take my glasses off.  Do I want to see more of it this season?  Absolutely not.

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5 hours ago, pixelcat said:

Do I buy Super!Sam?  Eh, kind of, with a little handwaving and maybe if I take my glasses off.  Do I want to see more of it this season?  Absolutely not.

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll be returning to Sam tied, helpless, to little chairs in no time.

I for one was glad for this one episode to not have a Samsel in distress Sam, myself. Even if it did get a little too much, I just squinted a little, and let it go. In season 9, we had Dean beating up like 3 demons at once on his own with no enhancements of any kind and I let that one go, so I'll let Sam have this one and pretend it was a lucky (for Sam) shot where the bullet magically missed everything. Maybe Chuck helped Sam out. ; )

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5 hours ago, pixelcat said:

They've (TPTB) made this seem like it's their only option.  It's not, they could just refuse to go with Billie completely.  Unless they're going to now have reapers forcing souls to come with them even if they don't want to, which seems against reaper code.  Considering the reaper lore has been torn to shreds, I guess anything's possible.  But Billie did hold out her hand, waiting for Dean to accept it, instead of just hauling him away.

 

I just rewatched this last night, and I was surprised by how much I liked it.  Maybe it was just seeing that Sam's shoes were scuffed and worn on the bottom, and his clothes were actually DIRTY for once.  I read somewhere else in these forums that lately it seems their clothes (and them) are way too clean most of the time for what they do.  Watching "Lazarus Rising" I could see the dirt under Dean's nails, and I realized I kind of missed that.

Do I buy Super!Sam?  Eh, kind of, with a little handwaving and maybe if I take my glasses off.  Do I want to see more of it this season?  Absolutely not.

You inspired me to rewatch this tonight. I really like how dark and gritty this episode was, almost like they used to be. I liked this episode, but then I really loved this season.

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7 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll be returning to Sam tied, helpless, to little chairs in no time.

I for one was glad for this one episode to not have a Samsel in distress Sam, myself.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm glad that Sam wasn't there just to wait around for saving.  I think both of them could use a few (ok maybe a LOT) more episodes where they actually kick ass, instead of being incapacitated in some way (tied up, knocked out, disarmed).  That's part of the reason I really liked "Form and Void"; sure, the cure was a little too easy IMO but I loved seeing Sam take charge, build a trap, and figure it out on his own.  Part of the reason I like this episode as well, both brothers were doing what they do (Dean saving others, Sam saving himself).  I guess I wish they didn't have SO much blood everywhere, I feel that Sam would've passed out well before he got to the car.  But I did appreciate the survival aspect of it.  We don't see them off in the wilderness very often.

I also would like to know where Sam got the keys to the Impala (you can hear the keys as he starts the car).  They always make a big deal about giving the keys to each other, like there's only one set, but guess I'll have to go with Sam has his own set (or Dean left them in the car because reasons).

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52 minutes ago, pixelcat said:

Part of the reason I like this episode as well, both brothers were doing what they do (Dean saving others, Sam saving himself).

This is really the saving grace of this episode for me. I do appreciate the more gritty look of the episode, as @Diane pointed out, but the sheer amount of nonsensical plot contrivances makes it hard for me to look back on it fondly. However, I do appreciate the show more when they do as the should, save other people first and then save themselves. I kinda miss that aspect of the show in more recent years.

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I know this was meant to be one of the highlight episodes of the season with something going tragically wrong, but there were just too many plot holes, implausibilities, and contrivances for what could have been a great episode.  And I'm just sick and tired of the whole Revolving Door of Death with these guys.  One or both of them is dead, or almost dead, or kind of dead.  And now we have this new no-nonsense reaper who keeps promising Sam and Dean and the audience that they ain't getting no more free passes and when they die that's all she wrote, they're not even going to get to go to the afterlife.  So what happens?  Dean pops in for another afterlife visit, shoots the bull for few minutes, and jumps back in his meat suit.  I'm sure we'll have an episode soon where he pops over to the dead zone for pizza and a beer for just, reasons.

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So this is what I do when I don't get to watch the new episode of SPN until tomorrow.  [Sigh] At least I still have some S11 eps to get through.  Haven't finished reading the comments, so there might be some repetition of previously expressed thoughts here:

  • Sam really does fall nicely, doesn't he?  So graceful for a man of his size.  And the hair fanning out is a nice effect too.  ;)
  • I was not a fan of the Dean trying to make a deal for Sam's life part of the plot, (thought we'd moved past that) but fwiw - I didn't think Dean was trying to commit suicide.  He instructed the wife to go get the doctor if the OD worked before he even took the pills.  And during his out of body experience, he was encouraging them to turn him over and find a vein in order to save him.  Bottom line for me: Dean really didn't want to die.  He was prepared to die if that was the only way to get Sam back, but he didn't want to.  I understand why he didn't tell Sam though, even with how honest they've been with each other lately.  Not sure that's something Sam would really understand in the context in which Dean did it.  
  • Oh what else?  The fight scene at the beginning was well done, I thought.  
  • When the husband was suffocating Sam was very creepy.  
  • It was a very nice Dean moment at the end when he sat down next to the wife to talk to her.  
  • Sam got O-neg blood.  I think that's the same type Sam got for Dean when trying to cure him from being a demon.  
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12 hours ago, AwesomO4000 said:

O-negative is the universal donor blood. I'm pretty sure any blood type can be given O-negative.

Thanks for reminding me!  I was thinking that was true, but I wasn't sure, so I didn't want to put that down.  (I couldn't remember between Universal Donor and Universal receiver).  

Heh Dean also said, something about 'a couple quarts of O-neg'.  Pretty sure that was an exaggeration.  If Sam had been a couple quarts down, I don't think he would have been up again.  

Edited by RulerofallIsurvey · Reason: don't and leaving it out are not the same thing!
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Shooting Sam is never cool, show! I kind of love that Sam has his feet up on another chair as they're just chilling in the bunker doing research. "We've got to get the bullet out." Is that ever true? I love that Sam tries to help everybody. Tries to keep moving, rather than let them stay with him, tries to get them to move on without him. And that "wait, what?" right before the guy tries to suffocate him breaks my heart. What the fuck, dude?! That is so messed up. I hate the Sam-killers. They are the worst kinds of people. Love Dean just punching the Ranger who tries to stop him from going back for Sam. You don't keep a Winchester from a Winchester without getting punched, even if you're a good guy. I like the wife. She's a good chick of the week. You know, I always wish for a slow pan-up of the guys' bodies, but when Sam is half-dead, it kind of loses the appeal. I love Sam's determination when he's trying to get to Dean. Love that moment where Sam and Dean fall down at the same time. And if Dean could never kill himself again, that would be great. "That was peak Baio." Love Dean trying to claim Sam can stop the Darkness and Billy having none of it. "Trust me, if the Big W bit it, I'd get a call." I love that Sam is majorly injured and still manages to get the drop on the werewolf. Sam looks good driving that big truck. He needs huge truck. I'm glad Sam killed Corbin. That's fair. Heh. "Mostly dead." So still partly alive. Nice lingering moment of Dean after Michelle says she doesn't know what to do with herself. I like Sam's new coat when he walks out of the hospital. This is a really good episode. Better than I remembered, even if Sam being okay after all he went through seems a little convenient. 

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Wow, so lucky was Sam that no organs were hit, he didn’t need surgery, just some stitches.  And Dean could have done more damage digging for the bullet.  

I knew Sam wouldn’t be dead.  And that was risky for Dean to suicide to try and get him back, but lol, Sam want dead. 

Do people really build cabins without a road?  Or why didn’t they drive there?  Oh I know, plot didn’t want them too. It would have been too easy to drive Sam out.  Good thing both brothers have car keys.

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Billie specifically says Sam wasn't even dead.

I think Sam was dead nad Billie brought him back. Billie didnt' say Sam was never dead. She said he's not dead..  I think Dean can tell the difference between dead and not dead.  And, IIRC, Sam didn't 

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On 10/12/2017 at 7:44 PM, Hanahope said:

Good thing both brothers have car keys.

Heh. I almost always have the key to our car on me - and I don't even drive! But I never know when hubby's set might get left inside the car or I might want to go back to the car and get my jersey jacket (I get cold in air conditioning) and not want hubby to have to dig his set out of his pocket. I just find it more convenient to always carry my own key to the car when we're out and about.

And with Sam and Dean they might never know when one or the other has to get into the car quickly when the other is out of sight / earshot or incapacitated. If I were them I'd have multiple sets of keys - maybe even one in one of those magnetic holders attached to Baby somewhere - just in case a baddie took my set for some reason.

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1 hour ago, AwesomO4000 said:

Heh. I almost always have the key to our car on me - and I don't even drive! But I never know when hubby's set might get left inside the car or I might want to go back to the car and get my jersey jacket (I get cold in air conditioning) and not want hubby to have to dig his set out of his pocket. I just find it more convenient to always carry my own key to the car when we're out and about.

And with Sam and Dean they might never know when one or the other has to get into the car quickly when the other is out of sight / earshot or incapacitated. If I were them I'd have multiple sets of keys - maybe even one in one of those magnetic holders attached to Baby somewhere - just in case a baddie took my set for some reason.

I agree with you that they should have two sets of keys (or more).  But, it seems like a lot of times there's only one set because they have to ask the other for the keys.

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1 minute ago, Katy M said:

But, it seems like a lot of times there's only one set because they have to ask the other for the keys.

True. Progress? Maybe they finally got some extra sets made. Maybe next time I do a rewtach I will have to see if there's a time when they stop having to switch the set of keys, indicating they finally made a second (or multiple) sets.

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On another note, I was perusing TNT this morning, and this episode came on. I laugh at the ridiculous Sam scenes, but enjoy the Dean scenes. I noticed that TNT cut out the extra doses of pills that Dean took to visit with Billie. I know I've seen that particular scene before on TNT, so I'm guessing this is in reaction to suicide themes in current times. I wonder what they'll be cutting next...

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12 hours ago, FlickChick said:

On another note, I was perusing TNT this morning, and this episode came on. I laugh at the ridiculous Sam scenes, but enjoy the Dean scenes. I noticed that TNT cut out the extra doses of pills that Dean took to visit with Billie. I know I've seen that particular scene before on TNT, so I'm guessing this is in reaction to suicide themes in current times. I wonder what they'll be cutting next...

That's interesting. How did they get from alive Dean to dead Dean without the pills? Given the overwhelming amount of scenes of suicide, and one particular violent form of it, that graces the airways every single day, I'm a little surprised.

I was home yesterday and had the TV on listening-watching the episodes as well, but I flipped the channel when it got to Red Meat, not one of my favorites. I'm not sure I've ever seen it more than the one time.

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10 hours ago, PAForrest said:

That's interesting. How did they get from alive Dean to dead Dean without the pills? Given the overwhelming amount of scenes of suicide, and one particular violent form of it, that graces the airways every single day, I'm a little surprised.

I was home yesterday and had the TV on listening-watching the episodes as well, but I flipped the channel when it got to Red Meat, not one of my favorites. I'm not sure I've ever seen it more than the one time.

They did show Dean taking a handful of pills, but in the original episode, he took even more in, quite frankly, a sloppy manner trying to get them all down. That's what they eliminated, but when I caught it another time on TNT, they showed both. No, not my favorite episode either - and as I mentioned, the SuperSam scenes are a joke.

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