GH In The News: The PC Press Club

[tessaray]

I can't believe how much I hope RC is really out.  I thought I finally had this show out of my system.

[jsbt]

Would you rather have Passanante* or McTavish? Someone named McTavish as a possible replacement and my instinct was to curl up in a ball and rock in a corner.

 

I would rather bears eat my family.

[Veronica]

My gut feeling is they will go with co-head writers.

[jsbt]

at one point McTavish says, "I'm proud that at least I can write, "Megan McTavish: she raped Bianca" on my tombstone!"

 

I was so young and so angry (and stupid) about that at the time that I literally wrote a long, rage-filled screed about it to the then-current heads of ABC Daytime. I can't even remember who they were, they were above Frons. Big deal people. They almost certainly never saw it. I didn't watch a full hour of AMC again until the bitch was gone.

 

Anne Sweeney! I think she was one. Dear God, what was I doing.

 

The fact is that, ultimately, it's not going to matter. Whoever they get isn't necessarily going to be better. They'll be different. For a time, different will feel better but it won't last because it's the same merry go round of writers in a genre that could be successful if they'd just allow it to grow for a change. Give it the time it needs rather than slashing budgets to the bone so that there's little rehearsal, the writing is constant with no breaks, and so on and so forth.

 

So, Ron can go, sure... but it's not going to mean a hell of a lot in the long run.

 

I don't disagree with you per se - I don't think the traditional daytime version of soaps will change enough until someone wants to really invest in them again, and that may take many years. Prospect Park's failure set us back further, when I do think if they'd been better run and gone to Netflix or something we'd see the genre on a continued upward, modernizing trend. I still think the first stable, well-run company that makes a deal for a block of arc'ed episodes of an existing soap to a streaming service will have a goldmine on their hands. The question now is if that will ever happen.

 

But as for the question of whether or can good soap be made in these network conditions, I think it can. I've seen it, on GH, on OLTL, on other shows, all in the last five to ten years. Whether or not it's fleeting or mismanaged, or micromanaged, or subject to foolish biases and poor creative choices, is another issue.

 

Soaps have always been an inexorable grind, even when they had a lot more rehearsal time and a lot more money. (I think Prospect Park's OLTL shot half of Roger Howarth's scenes in one day, and they had people in there until like midnight at some points.) The question is quality control. I don't think the current situation can last, and I don't think a new HW, good or bad, will change that larger reality. I do think someone with real history and skills infringing on the Ron and Frank Mutual Admiration Club would've been a smart idea. That doesn't look what's going to happen here.

 

At this point, the soap I loved and fought for for years is not so much dead as in deep hibernation, possibly for ten or twenty years, possibly forever. So in terms of my aggravation, I've done all the breast-beating or weeping I can do. That ended when OLTL left ABC, and the show's return in fairly good shape was, in hindsight, more of a victory lap. My real angst is over. All I try to do now is enjoy and admire what I can, of another soap I love but not as much. I think they can do better. I have little faith they will. I'm curious to see, but the question of how soaps will get better overall doesn't come down to GH.

My gut feeling is they will go with co-head writers.

 

That would be smart, IMO. But not if one of them is Jean Passanante. I would offer Karen Harris a king's ransom. Tell her she can work from bed. I do it!

Edited July 24, 2015 by jsbt

[ulkis]

I do honestly think after GH and DAYS are gone someone in 5 or 10 years will bring back the format. Maybe not 5 days a week, but 3 or 4, and obviously probably not on network tv. It's sad but it won't be the same, but I do think it will be tried.

[jsbt]

I do honestly think after GH and DAYS are gone someone in 5 or 10 years will bring back the format. Maybe not 5 days a week, but 3 or 4, and obviously probably not on network tv. It's sad but it won't be the same, but I do think it will be tried.

 

I always thought AMC and OLTL would return, but I didn't think they would do it in a year. I think the model was right, the writing and production value were superior. The productions worked. They were failed by their management. Now that we've had that unsuccessful pilot program, I think we're 3-5 years out at least from anyone trying again. But someone should do it, and do it on Netflix or Amazon. If it doesn't happen in the next decade, then it'll probably be new shows entirely. Which I suppose is to be expected.

[kristabell]

The fact is that, ultimately, it's not going to matter. Whoever they get isn't necessarily going to be better. They'll be different. For a time, different will feel better but it won't last because it's the same merry go round of writers in a genre that could be successful if they'd just allow it to grow for a change. Give it the time it needs rather than slashing budgets to the bone so that there's little rehearsal, the writing is constant with no breaks, and so on and so forth.

 

It's the same fucking writers going from show to show to show. Get fired from one, get hired at another, get fired from that one, get hired at a place they just fired the same group from last time. New blood isn't going to be found because no one wants to climb on a sinking ship. Soap opera can be found in plenty of places... cable, Hulu, Netflix, primetime and the daytime version still gets the embarrassed 'oh God, that's still there?' treatment.

 

So, Ron can go, sure... but it's not going to mean a hell of a lot in the long run.

 

Yes, exactly this. It's pretty much the definition of rearranging deckchairs on the Titanic. The fact that soaps haven't invested in new blood in the last couple of decades means it's not really going to matter. Ron is terrible, obviously. But so is everyone else whose name has been bandied about as a replacement. The writers leaving DAYS were terrible; the incoming writers (one of whom was fired from that show twice already) are also terrible. Pratt is terrible.

 

Daytime soaps are circling the drain as a genre, and a giant factor in that is that the same dozen people have been hired and fired from shows for the last several years. When was the last time there was a genuinely new head writer or EP? When was the last time they had 20-somethings come on board as breakdown writers? Are there any POC writers at all? The reason we have repetitive storylines with no relevance to daily life in 2015 is because they're being written by the same people who wrote the same stories twenty years ago. 

[ulkis]

I always thought AMC and OLTL would return, but I didn't think they would do it in a year. I think the model was right, the writing and production value were superior. The productions worked. They were failed by their management. Now that we've had that unsuccessful pilot program, I think we're 3-5 years out at least from anyone trying again. But someone should do it, and do it on Netflix or Amazon. If it doesn't happen in the next decade, then it'll probably be new shows entirely. Which I suppose is to be expected.

 

Oh, that's what I was thinking, new shows. I think once GH and DAYS are done they will be done. Unless someone tries to come up with a hook like starting off a new soap with Luke and Laura's grandkids (who I do not even think would be necessarily named Aidan, Cam, Jake, Rocco, or Spencer.)

Edited July 24, 2015 by ulkis

[jsbt]

I think there are ways to reboot GH using certain central touchstones and tentpoles - Laura, Robin and Patrick, a couple Quartermaines. I thought about it when Prospect Park came in and still had the rights to GH on streaming. It can be done. But in this instance I'd do what AMC did, which is jump ahead five years and take that as an excuse to clean the slate and SORAS all the kids.

I think there are only a handful of soaps with the brand value to do that kind of reboot, because of publicly identifiable cultural figures (Luke and Laura, Erica Kane) or, in the case of my beloved OLTL, simply being multicultural and edgy enough. But I am deeply biased. I also think rebooting and reviving old properties is very in now and sooner or later someone will seize upon it for the soaps.

Edited July 24, 2015 by jsbt

[jsbt]

When was the last time there was a genuinely new head writer or EP? When was the last time they had 20-somethings come on board as breakdown writers? Are there any POC writers at all? The reason we have repetitive storylines with no relevance to daily life in 2015 is because they're being written by the same people who wrote the same stories twenty years ago. 

 

There's always going to be an element of that, I suspect, for better or worse. These people keep being rehired because they were reared in this environment and are among the few who know how to write to that constant deadline pressure, or who even want to. Even the Internet reboots hired a mix of old hands and, on staff, young, new or cheap people, some of whom were of color - which I think is probably the best recipe.

[Dandesun]

Well, they've really got to focus on who their audience IS as opposed to who they want it to be. You can't cater to an audience you don't have and then be surprised when they don't show up. You work with what you have, you build to that. At this point, I feel that soaps are a habit with most people anymore. "This is something that's been a part of my life for so long..." That's all it is. The days of desperately wanting to see a storyline play out are gone. Television habits have changed. People save them up to binge watch on the weekend or at night. They've got to figure out HOW the audience they have is watching, too. Work with that.

 

There are arguments to be made either way, I suppose. My life gets so busy at times that day to day watching is kind of impossible. I'm working on my yard out back and don't have the time or the inclination to stay inside for an hour to watch a soap I've DVRed. When I do have the time to sit down I will binge watch. I did it with Daredevil... three times. I do it with anime all the time... or old shows that I love (rewatching Frasier, Friends, X-Files) and I do it with the PP OLTL from time to time.

 

Who is the audience GH is writing for? It can't possibly be women, can't it? I just don't buy it. And if it is... well... maybe some of those writers need to get out and talk to actual women for a change. Maybe find out what they're watching and why. My Mom told me that soaps, back when she watched through the 70s and 80s raising kids at home, were an outlet. When you were stuck in the house with your kids, napping, feeding, laundry, house cleaning... you took a break for the stories and they gave you an outlet for the emotions. You could laugh, cry, get excited... whatever. Those beats were hit and that mattered.

 

What is the purpose of the shows now? Who are they writing for?!

[OnceSane]

My gut feeling is they will go with co-head writers.

I know Karen Harris is out of soaps, but I wouldn't mind her and Garin Wolf as co-HWs. I think she'd curb his horrible pacing, and at least they actually know (and seem to like) GH.

[jsbt]

I think a large part of the problem with the current GH is that they write as though they and a very small, online subset of their audience are the only ones watching.

I know Karen Harris is out of soaps, but I wouldn't mind her and Garin Wolf as co-HWs. I think she'd curb his horrible pacing, and at least they actually know (and seem to like) GH.

 

I have heard a fair amount of horror stories about Garin Wolf, but I would give Harris anything she wants. Michele ValJean has job security at B&B, which is as close to bulletproof as a soap gets these days. She is never coming back and I don't blame her.

[ulkis]

Yeah, I thought there was some deeply misogynistic stank during Wolf's run, even more than Guza, in just that 6 month run, which is pretty "impressive". 

[Artsda]

Doesn't mean people are happy with his writing. At least not if you go by the PTV Y&R board. I barely even pay attention anymore, that's how stupid it's gotten.

Obviously people are tuning in though and ratings are growing week-to-week. So people are liking it. Even if some people on a message board hate on it. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Artsda

[jsbt]

Y&R is not a very good show at all, but one thing Jamey Giddens said is correct - it's keeping its numbers because it is showing its veteran powerhouses and popular characters up front and consistently. Jack, Victor, Adam, Phyllis, etc. are headlining major story. However ludicrous that story is (and it's deeply ludicrous), Peter Bergman (Jack), Justin Hartley (Adam), Gina Tognoni (Phyllis), and many others are killing it. As bad as it gets, they're compulsively watchable.

[dubbel zout]

It's the same fucking writers going from show to show to show. Get fired from one, get hired at another, get fired from that one, get hired at a place they just fired the same group from last time.

 

Which is not necessarily a bad thing, because different soaps have different tones, and some writers aren't able to make that adjustment. It's like a sports team: You need to have the right chemistry. 

 

But with so few soaps left, it should be obvious who's good and who isn't. I hate seeing GH go down the drain like this just because ABC doesn't have the guts to either take some chances or pull the plug entirely. 

[KerleyQ]

grrr now I really want to find it . . . does anyone remember that parody that was linked to (it was definitely not on the actual forum, but linked) at twop two years ago and it was McTavish and I want to say Jill Phelps having a conversation and they're talking about how there's a little too much rape at GH even for them and at one point McTavish says, "I'm proud that at least I can write, "Magan McTavish: she raped Bianca" on my tombstone!"

 

Was it Pratt Falls?  https://www.youtube.com/user/grrarrgghh/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1

[ulkis]

Was it Pratt Falls?  https://www.youtube.com/user/grrarrgghh/videos?view=0&sort=dd&shelf_id=1

 

No, it was a written parody. I think it was by an old poster who used to post a lot at twop but not by the time twop closed. he had the blog and he kept all our twop nicknames there on it, why am I blanking out on this.

 

ETA: Bourgeois Nerd, that was him!

Edited July 24, 2015 by ulkis

[Francie]

Well, they've really got to focus on who their audience IS as opposed to who they want it to be. You can't cater to an audience you don't have and then be surprised when they don't show up. You work with what you have, you build to that. At this point, I feel that soaps are a habit with most people anymore. "This is something that's been a part of my life for so long..." That's all it is. The days of desperately wanting to see a storyline play out are gone. Television habits have changed. People save them up to binge watch on the weekend or at night. They've got to figure out HOW the audience they have is watching, too. Work with that.

 

There are arguments to be made either way, I suppose. My life gets so busy at times that day to day watching is kind of impossible. I'm working on my yard out back and don't have the time or the inclination to stay inside for an hour to watch a soap I've DVRed. When I do have the time to sit down I will binge watch. I did it with Daredevil... three times. I do it with anime all the time... or old shows that I love (rewatching Frasier, Friends, X-Files) and I do it with the PP OLTL from time to time.

 

Who is the audience GH is writing for? It can't possibly be women, can't it? I just don't buy it. And if it is... well... maybe some of those writers need to get out and talk to actual women for a change. Maybe find out what they're watching and why. My Mom told me that soaps, back when she watched through the 70s and 80s raising kids at home, were an outlet. When you were stuck in the house with your kids, napping, feeding, laundry, house cleaning... you took a break for the stories and they gave you an outlet for the emotions. You could laugh, cry, get excited... whatever. Those beats were hit and that mattered.

 

What is the purpose of the shows now? Who are they writing for?!

Definitely not writing for women. Or at least most women.  Half the time it feels like they're writing for only the people, men and women, who would hoot and holler at a shirtless man walking around in towel.

 

I too think there's an audience out there. Just about every television format, other than cable and primetime, is daily.  People are creatures of habit.  They have routines.  They like the feeling of certainty of having something there.  It's what I call the Rainman syndrome.  You have to watch your daily show. 

 

For some, it's having to watch The Tonight Show before they go to sleep.  For others, it's watching a morning program while they get ready for work.  For others, it is the nightly early evening game show.  So too it was with soaps.  People like their daily fix. 

 

And a soap, that's a healthy combination of escapism and reality, is not a bad way to unwind at the end of the day.  It's the show one puts one after work. Or after classes. Or after they put kids to bed. 

 

But if you want women to watch, and be invested, you have to have strong, rootable women to watch.  You have to actually have things happen to them each episode, and not 'trick' viewers into thinking things will happen and draw out the stories inexorably long.

You have to have their knocks and their obstacles, but have them win out at the end of the day, most of the time.  You need women like the ones who are/were the leads on The Good Wife, Gilmore Girls, and Judging Amy.  Or one can try for more of an action-based show with Scandal or Revenge, but I think those would tend to be too unsteady.  Center a show around three or four families, or a work place, or a college, and you're off. 

 

I really do think it's doable, even with a limited number of sets and modest budgets. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Francie

[ulkis]

I couldn't find what I was looking for but I did find the list of old nicknames/jokes, so I'll just link it the fanfic/fanwork thread  for those who may be curious:

 

 

http://forums.previously.tv/topic/10486-gh-fanworksfanficfanart-we-do-it-better/?p=1355766

[Box305]

http://www.soapoperadigest.com/content/head-writer-switch-gh

 

Oh God... 

 

Passanante and Shelly Altman co-writers. 

Edited July 24, 2015 by Box305

[jsbt]

Ugh, Jean.

[Dandesun]

So Ron's out and Jean's co-heading with another.

 

That answers some questions.

[Box305]

Ugh, Jean.

 

That was my first reaction. 

[aw86]

Will  they listen to my FreeRobin campaign?

[Chairperson Meow]

How is Shelly Altman?

[TeeVee329]

Didn't Shelly Altman just get fired from Y&R?

Edited July 24, 2015 by TeeVee329

[WendyCR72]

So from one form of hell to another. Sigh. It was nice to hope for a millisecond.

[Francie]

Ok, no one in the pool had Shelly Altman.  Important questions:

 

Who is she/what has she written?

 

How does she feel about gimmicks like libidinal?

 

Would jsbt prefer to have his family eaten by bears than have her co-write with Passanante?

Edited July 24, 2015 by Francie

[backhometome]

RC is out is literally all I read. Cackling. 

[Box305]

Didn't Shelly Altman just get fired from Y&R?

 

Was head writer until March then made a breakdown writer. 

[jsbt]

Didn't Shelly Altman just get fired from Y&R?

 

They both did. They were JFP's budget-conscious writing team, prior to the Chuck Pratt coup which may end up unseating her as well.

 

Jean is terrible and boring. Altman I don't really know. I had thought she had a longer history at GH than she does - Wikipedia claims she was at OLTL since the '90s. She was at GH in 2011, presumably as part of Wolf's team. They literally swapped Ron for an available, mediocre team that was already pre-made.

[HeatLifer]

RC is out is literally all I read. Cackling.

As did I. I don't even care who is replacing him. Franco, Nina, Sabrina, Ava, etc, were all HIS obsessions and I cannot wait for something...ANYTHING...else.

[Sake614]

I was without internet for a couple of hours while my phone was being repaired and what's the first thing I see? That it's official and Ron is out. I want to be thrilled about this news but since Passanante and Altman are now in charge, it's difficult to feel anything but dread.

[TeeVee329]

Was Shelly Altman at Y&R while Michelle Stafford was?

As did I. I don't even care who is replacing him. Franco, Nina, Sabrina, Ava, etc, were all HIS obsessions and I cannot wait for something...ANYTHING...else.

 

Like Rebecca Budig?  Jean just tweeted the other day about loving writing for her again.

 

I'm sure some of the characters we hate will be cast off, but 1) not all of them and 2) there were likely be a whole other crop of randoms.

[ulkis]

Ok, no one in the pool had Shelly Altman.  Important questions:

 

Who is she/what has she written?

 

Would she champion or challenge a storyline involving libidizal or whatever that drug was?

 

Would jsbt prefer to have his family eaten by bears than have her co-write with Passanante?

 

She was actually already on GH for about a month co-head-writing with Wolf before Ron came along. I wonder if Frank fired her or the network did. If it was Frank . . . kiiiiiiiiinda awkward.

 

So from one form of hell to another. Sigh. It was nice to hope for a millisecond.

 

Eh, I never had any hope. I'm a little surprised you did, given you're a  . . . wee bit cynical. Just a tad! ;) I am glad Ron won't be able to talk down to us on twitter like a 15 year old baby. Good luck to him in the future, he'll probably be more pleasant in a job with less stress. I almost feel bad for him, because like jsbt said, I really do think he liked writing for soap operas. the problem was it seemed like he liked writing for soap operas because of the campiness.

 

I do worry if we will ever see some of the other older vets again.

Like Rebecca Budig?  Jean just tweeted the other day about loving writing for her again.

 

Blerg, dear God. She wasn't a fan of CamMat too, was she?

Edited July 24, 2015 by ulkis

[TeeVee329]

I do worry if we will ever see some of the other older vets again.

 

I think they'll dump a lot of the recurrings.  So yeah, goodbye Rosalie, Donna Mills, Obrecht.  But probably also goodbye Lucy, Bobbie, maybe Lucas and Brad.

[dirtydi]

   I feel that this is almost a replay of Dena Higley getting ousted along with a scathing interview with a top soap star.  Question: did Erika S speak out before or after Higley was fired?  History repeats itself both onscreen and off.

[jsbt]

Was Shelly Altman at Y&R while Michelle Stafford was?

 

Not for long. Altman spent most of her career at ABC, apparently - first five years at Another World, then many years at OLTL since the '99, then the brief stint at GH with Wolf, then Y&R.

[tessaray]

Any chance this team will clean house?  I would settle for Franco though.

[BestestAuntEver]

After cackling, my first thought was also who is Altman and what has she written. We're they the ones writing when Y&R's ratings were constantly dropped..

More Franco, Nina, Hayden, Madeline, Avainawig, Kiki and this show is doomed. I don't want Kiki's friends added to the show either. Are Brad and Lucas out?

This was definitely in the works, if their stuff is showing up on the 10th of August.

I'm happy but now the questions are floating in my head.

I ho pi e SK and TR are laughing their ass of somewhere.

[jsbt]

   I feel that this is almost a replay of Dena Higley getting ousted along with a scathing interview with a top soap star.  Question: did Erika S speak out before or after Higley was fired?  History repeats itself both onscreen and off.

 

Before.

 

From Jeff Giles' Llanview in the Afternoon oral history, which I highly recommend, now on Amazon, these are Erika's own words:

 

The only head writer that I really found was not doing the show a service was Dena Higley. She started out as a house on fire, but after awhile, it was just explosion after rock slide after plane crash - all these disasters, and none of the characters were experiencing any lasting reactions to any of these massive events. [...] Anyway, I knew Frank was unhappy with Dena, because he could never get her to do a long-term story, and one of the questions [in my fan newsletter] was what I thought of her. I responded that the stories were just events, that nothing really happened, and she wasn't doing the show a service. I had no idea how it would spread. I thought it was only going out to my 300 fan club members, but the next thing I knew, I was getting comments from all sorts of people saying I wanted Dena fired. I didn't say that, but she was fired.

Edited July 24, 2015 by jsbt

[OnceSane]

http://www.soapoperadigest.com/content/head-writer-switch-gh

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Suck it, Ron!

So I'm not thrilled about the replacements, but again, SUCK. IT. RON. Maybe if you spent less time on Twitter and more time honing your craft, you'd still have a job.

[MSquared]

You know what, Ron is out.  That alone gives me joy.

[TeeVee329]

I'm more worried now these writers are gonna double down on Sonny, especially with Luke gone.

 

And what of Laura's return stint in the fall?  I wonder if that will be scrapped.

[Francie]

I think they'll dump a lot of the recurrings.  So yeah, goodbye Rosalie, Donna Mills, Obrecht.  But probably also goodbye Lucy, Bobbie, maybe Lucas and Brad.

If they're smart, they'll pick up on and continue on with Lucas and Brad. Just dump the "I have a wife" storyline. 

 

But add Felix to that list of dumpees. 

[jsbt]

I almost feel bad for him, because like jsbt said, I really do think he liked writing for soap operas. the problem was it seemed like he liked writing for soap operas because of the campiness.

 

I'll just repeat what I said at SON:

 

I am not looking forward to Soap Media Twitter rending its garments all weekend and shrieking about the injustice, blaming anyone and everyone from Tony Geary to Nathan Varni to the ghost of Jeanne Cooper for Ron's stories, characters and choices. Brian Frons has been out of the building since 2012 - Ron has few excuses left. There will always be an element of network or EP oversight on a HW, always some pressures or actor clashes. That is the nature of the job, but what was left onscreen was largely Ron's personal vision, IMO.

Ron started out as the underdog and I was one of his first and most vocal fans at OLTL. He made that show good again for me, consistently, for the first time since the '90s. Then, within a year, he began fucking up, and by the time he got to GH his problems were magnified intensely. Now those massive flaws are obscuring everything else.

Ron has a lot of love for these shows and for daytime, but he also has a lot of ego and a lot of bad impulses. He made this situation himself. He's not the first once-beloved HW to fall apart in daytime because of their own excess, but he just might be the last. He did it to himself. Nobody else did it to him.

 

And yes, it is sad because IMO he does love these shows, does love those vets and I think a lot of them will disappear. But he is responsible for what happened here. He's the reason he's gone.

 

I used to give Gary Tomlin, a super-enthusiastic EP at OLTL who had terrible writing on his show, a lot of passes because he loved everyone even as he made bad choices. I have no pity for Ron because he has no respect for us.

Edited July 24, 2015 by jsbt

[HeatLifer]

Like Rebecca Budig? Jean just tweeted the other day about loving writing for her again.

I'm sure some of the characters we hate will be cast off, but 1) not all of them and 2) there were likely be a whole other crop of randoms.

Rebecca Budig was never my problem. She was part of one of my favorite soap couples ever. My issue was what RON did with her. I'm on Team Anyone But Ron.

[IWantCandy71]

I was just coming on here to say that we better be careful what we wish for, if Ron is out. I am going to stay positive until I see the new stuff. As a rule though, I think a fresh perspective always draws people in, so I expect ratings to temporarily go up, and maybe stay up, if what they write is better than what we are getting. I also think new writers are always better when they first come in, it's the new toys to play with, etc.

 

I can't celebrate a man losing his job, no matter how badly I wanted change. It sucks to be unemployed, even when you maybe need to be fired.