S05.E15: The Brothers Jones

[formerlyfreedom]

Finally reunited, Hook and Emma must find a way to defeat Hades so that they can return to Storybrooke with Snow, David, Regina, Robin, Henry and Gold. A surprise visit from Hook’s departed brother Liam just might provide the lead they were looking for—others who have tried to overthrow Hades spoke of a book that contained the key to his downfall. Tired of watching from the sidelines, Henry secretly takes matters into his own hands while the others search for the book. Meanwhile, Hades redoubles his efforts to trap the heroes in the Underworld by playing them against one another. In flashbacks, the bond between the two young Jones brothers is tested and strengthened on a merchant ship heading into a dangerous storm

 

[Last Time Lord]

You know, despite the fact I absolutely detest the Brothers Jones, I actually rather enjoyed this.

Was far more interested in Henry's subplot. Glad everything is out in the open, on that front.

[InsertWordHere]

I'm still processing, but I really appreciated getting a Charming/Henry scene after having so little for almost three seasons. I also like what they're saying about James here, even though I am sure he will turn out to be totally evil blah blah blah. Cruella was a hoot when she revealed that she'd known it was Charming the whole time. 

 

I liked the blaring violins during Liam's moving on scene. 

[Mari]

What???  How did that Apprentice/Henry scene make any sense?  How?  “No, Henry!  You must not do that!  No!  It is absolutely wrong! . . . Oh, wait!  This is how you do that.  Just FYI.  In case you wondered.  Still don’t do it.  I really, really mean it.  After all, my unfinished business is what you do--not me.  Even though it’s my unfinished business.”

 

“Moms”  

 

Well, Snow had some sass, so . . .Regina’s an amazing, repentant, joyous character and gave an awesome pep talk this week . . .obligatory Regina praise aside, I did think the scenes where Regina and Emma  double-teamed Henry were well done.  And, that Regina’s pep talk was not bad, apart from when Regina pointed out how she knew from personal experience how hard it is to forgive yourself.  (Um  . . hahahahahahahaha.  “No Regrets.”)

 

Is the Sorcerer still supposed to be Merlin?

 

Also, show?  Please, please, please stop with the Hades’ blue, fiery hair.  It’s silly-looking.  It’s not scary.  It’s just silly, and it takes me out of the scene every single time.

 

 

It was also nice to see David get some actual lines.

[YaddaYadda]

I was really excited about this episode, and I'm kind of a bit meh on it. 

 

I just felt everything was moving at warp speed, and I think Bernard Curry is a bit of a weak actor. But wow at the whole building a naval career on the bodies of fellow sailors. Guess what goes around comes around.

 

I liked that Killian was kind of always a screw up.

 

Cruella is just so awesome! It's too bad she's dead because she's a hoot.

[Daisy]

(sigh) I guess i have to get used to Emma and Hook. Boo. 

I'm guessing they are 100 percent going to go with the Disney version of this (instead of what they did with Frozen and introduce the Snow Queen and really tie the two stories together) - ie: we're not going to see Persephone or anything (which would be awesome, I'd think)

 

the show..I don't know i guess it was okay. Compared to last weeks, it was a touch flat 

[Writing Wrongs]

This was a meh episode for me. I'm getting tired of all things Killian Jones.

 

Why would there be a house protected by light magic in The Underworld?

 

Next week looks like fun.

[KingOfHearts]

Good episode! As much as I find Hook and Liam boring, this episode had some good moments.

 

Pros:

* This episode had some 5A payoff. I'm so glad they questioned whether it's even worth it for Hook to be saved after everything.

* I can't believe I'm saying this but... Henry's subplot was nice. He was darn right for side-eyeing the apprentice.

* Cruella/David stuff was funny. Victoria is giving it her all.

* The Regina/Emma scene where Regina was being the supportive friend she's supposed to be.

 

Cons:

* "That book is the embodiment of hope." You mean that book about everyone losing their happy endings and the Evil Queen's victory? Yeah, it just radiates hope.

* Flashbacks were boring. Captain Silver was bland. They could have done something much better.

* A sapphire that lies in the middle of the storm. Makes no sense.

* The Killian/Emma/Liam tension felt slightly manufactured, but not unnecessary.

* What's the freaking point of the Pen's power if you're not supposed to use it? I don't understand how Henry wanting to use his appointed power to help his family is of the Dark Side.

* I find Liam an annoying jerk. I don't sympathize with him at all and his last minute redemption was cheap.

* Why did Snow say "what the Sorcerer said"? Didn't she mean the Apprentice?

 

Zelena and Hades... I'm excited.

Edited March 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Worsel]

I thought this was a solid episode, although Liam's redemption at the end came about rather quickly (and perhaps a bit too easily.)  

 

I enjoyed being able to see David and Henry in a scene together.  Sometimes it seems that these quiet character scenes are sacrificed for the sake of action and moving the plot along.  Regina's scene with Emma was also good, it was nice to see a supportive side to Regina.  So far her redemption seems to be persisting.  Strangely absent: Robin Hood.  I'll just pretend he was doing something important...somewhere...for the entire episode.

 

I have a hard time believing the Apprentice's unfinished business is with Henry.  He seems a bit too shady to me.

 

And I'm with everyone else who loves Cruella and hates Hades' fiery blue hair.

[mjgchick]

Hook's self loathing was an all time high. He's the only villain the show actually writes this way and it was way before he started doing horrible things.

 

Yikes at how much of a pedestal Hook put Liam in. It makes perfect sense because for so long he never left him even when he screwed up a lot.

 

Henry's need to be a hero is so pathetic and I could careless about it. I did love seeing Regina be supportive. She's finally learning how to actually be a friend and not a crazy person.

 

I forgot to say Cruella is awesome. She's who Zelena should be honestly. Speaking of, I'm convinced Hades is Zelenas baby daddy. lol

Edited March 28, 2016 by mjgchick

[sharky]

I loved so much about this episode. Liam and Killian, Snowing, Cruella, even Henry! And of course, Captain Swan. That kiss! Finally! There was so much good story going on in this episode.

Although that was my big issue with it. Because they tried to cram so much goodness in an hour, the pacing was totally off. I didn't get as much out of Killian and Liam as I wished I could have. Why was there so much there? Why not, I don't know, try some character development or quiet character moments? For crap sake, just slow your roll a bit.

[KateJones]

I liked the episode a lot but still think Emma and Killian need to talk about these things instead of having third parties talk to them about their issues.

Also think the fact that Hades can't hurt anyone in the Overworld is going to come into play in the future.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Henry's need to be a hero is so pathetic and I could careless about it.

Whenever Henry says he wants to be a "hero", it takes me away from the whole "I want to help my family" bit. It's for self-glory. He sounds like his mother, and not the blonde one.

Edited March 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[InsertWordHere]

So that ring didn't actually have survival powers, right? If so, I'm glad, because I prefer survived on his own merits Captain Hook, not lucky charm Captain Hook. 

I was really excited about this episode, and I'm kind of a bit meh on it. 

 

I just felt everything was moving at warp speed, and I think Bernard Curry is a bit of a weak actor.

The pacing in this episode was ridiculous. No tearful reunion scene. No introduction to Emma. Liam and Emma confrontation seven minutes in. I feel a bit ripped off. 

 

I liked that Killian was kind of always a screw up.

See, I kind of prefer the previous Hook origin we had from Good Form, which was of a basically decent man who just kept getting further and further away from his natural self. This episode tells us that the vengeful gambling drunk is his normal self.  

[Randomosity]

None of anything related to either Jones rang true for me.

 

For one, I don't think the flashbacks were well-served by having the fully-aged adult actors. It was distracting and didn't visually fit for me. Scruffy and in non-naval clothing? The only thing that screamed flashback was Killian's mullet/ponytail. I think it would have been much, MUCH better had they gotten some scrawny 16- and 19-year olds to play the pre-Navy brothers. It also just didn't feel congruous with wide-eyed squeaky-clean Killian that we saw going to Neverland back in the day.

 

And current-day Killian (under-Killian?)... I just didn't buy his mindset. I think, in theory, that mindset of wanting to stay, not deserving saving, etc may have made sense, but it felt far too rushed with so little development. And to be so quick to give up his relationship with Emma? After the 'follow her to the end of earth/time' and declaring her his happy ending? Again, maybe plausible, but here it was SO so rushed for him to to get to that brainspace. I mean, I won't complain about his re-declaring that he wants a future with Emma, but all the stuff before that? Meh.

 

Henry, what? Eff off, kid. Stop whining about wanting to be a hero and frakking do something.

 

Charming/Cruella was icky :\

 

I don't know if the previews for the next week count as spoilers, so I won't be specific, but I literally said out loud upon seeing it, "FFS! Again?"

[YaddaYadda]

Because they tried to cram so much goodness in an hour, the pacing was totally off.

 

This was my problem. 

 

I thought they had great family moments. Even with David and James not having met, they're already explaining James' problem with David. David/Henry, Regina/Henry/Emma, the friend moment between Emma and Regina. The episode put more emphasis on family, and that was a really good thing.

For one, I don't think the flashbacks were well-served by having the fully-aged adult actors. It was distracting and didn't visually fit for me. Scruffy and in non-naval clothing? The only thing that screamed flashback was Killian's mullet/ponytail.

 

But timeline wise these are the two people that fit. I mean this was probably a few months before the voyage to Neverland.

[OnceUponAJen]

"I agree with the speculation about Liam. I wonder if Hades is blackmailing him....threatening to tell Killian whatever it is that he did. I think it does have to do with Captain Silver. Whatever it is, I hope it isn't something that took away Killian's agency in any way, since that is really his hot button issue."

OK,I totally called it. Hades was blackmailing Liam!

I really liked this episode. I liked that we got to see what led up to the brothers getting a military commission in the king's navy. I also liked that Hook committed to Emma's mission to defeat Hades. And Killian has a renewed confidence in himself!

Edited March 28, 2016 by OnceUponAJen

[KingOfHearts]

As far as the pacing goes... even someone I was watching with thought Liam's lie would have lasted a few episodes or something. All I can figure is that the writers wanted to wrap up Killian's issues as quickly as possible so they could move right on to the Firebird/Hades/Zelena stuff quicker. They didn't want Liam in more than one episode, either.

 

 

I really liked this episode. I liked that we got to see what led up to the brothers getting a military commission in the king's navy.

 

I'll give the flashbacks credit for showing us crucial moments. We now know how they got in the navy, that they were in slavery beyond childhood, and when Liam gave Killian his ring.

 

If Black Tooth, Dead Eye the Healer and Captain Silver were played by the same person, it wouldn't change anything. They've all been so bland as secondary characters. I wonder what next week's middle-aged coatrack will be. A random munchkin?

Edited March 28, 2016 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

I wanted to like it, but I kind of felt like this was this season's eggbaby. I guess it wasn't quite as retconny because it didn't directly contradict anything we know, and they were trying really hard to connect the dots between this and what we know, but it just didn't ring true for me. It did explain how a couple of indentured servants became officers, but I find it hard to believe that escaping a shipwreck with a sapphire would be enough to get a naval commission. I think I'd have believed it more if the deal Hades made with Liam was specifically to get the commissions, not just to get the sapphire. I'm iffy on the idea of Killian always being a screwup. On the one hand, I guess it explains a lot of his issues and how he turned pirate so quickly when he lost Liam, but on the other hand, it's really hard to reconcile the Killian we saw in this episode with the nerdy, rather naive Lt. Jones we met previously, even if he did vow to turn over a new leaf. Really, I think these flashbacks would have worked better with teen/early 20s actors because that seems like it would be the ages they must have been, and that would fit the actions (and the career trajectory they'd have had to have after this to get to where they were in "Good Form") better. A 21-year-old Liam making that impulsive decision might have worked. A Liam that looks like he's in his late 30s (and they didn't even bother to cover his gray for the flashbacks) doesn't quite work.

 

And would it have killed them to show a hug between the brothers? They really do like leaving the most emotional moments offscreen, cutting away from the split second after the brothers see each other and then returning with them already sitting around the table. So we didn't actually get to see the reunion between the brothers.

 

It was so easy for Emma to heal Hook, so why did they drag him to the cemetery still all battered last week? She couldn't have waved a hand at him on the way there?

 

At least Henry wasn't so stupid as to go along with Cruella entirely, though I noticed the motive had changed from "make Emma not be a murderer" to "Emma feels so guilty." But you know, kid, somehow I doubt bringing Cruella back to life is going to make Emma feel any better. And why, oh why does the Author have all this power that's not supposed to be used?

 

Interesting that James apparently knew all along that he was adopted. I'd have thought George would have kept that from him, since he was pretending that James was his son.

[retrograde]

I missed a few minutes here and there, but was Robin just gone the entire episode with no explanation?

 

Man this show is so dour at the moment. Maybe it is too much to ask for a half-season set in the Underworld, but after all the angst of 5A, everything is just so grim and everyone is so self-loathing. I'm actually looking forward to Zelena's return next week, because at least her characterization is consistently funny and snarky. 

[Randomosity]

But timeline wise these are the two people that fit. I mean this was probably a few months before the voyage to Neverland.

 To be fair, I haven't watched the older episode(s) with Liam in forever. But wasn't he already a Captain? And Killian the Lieutenant? That did not happen in a few months. I figured years. Which would be why I would have been much better with younger actors for today's stuff.

[tennisgurl]

I...am going to need to process a lot of the backstory we got for the Brothers Jones. I think the stuff about Hook being a bit of a screw up before the navy reeks of ret con, but maybe it works? I am also trying to figure out just what world this all took place in. It does not seem to be the EF, it seems more Regency era England/UK. Why will you not just commit to world building, show! 

 

I will say, I am really glad Charming is getting more to do. 

[Randomosity]

it's really hard to reconcile the Killian we saw in this episode with the nerdy, rather naive Lt. Jones we met previously, even if he did vow to turn over a new leaf. Really, I think these flashbacks would have worked better with teen/early 20s actors because that seems like it would be the ages they must have been, and that would fit the actions (and the career trajectory they'd have had to have after this to get to where they were in "Good Form") better. A 21-year-old Liam making that impulsive decision might have worked. A Liam that looks like he's in his late 30s (and they didn't even bother to cover his gray for the flashbacks) doesn't quite work.

 

Jinx!!! 

[Rumsy4]

It was a good episode, although I agree the pacing was choppy. Why does everything need to happen at light speed?

 

I liked the CS moments we got, even if they were short. I'm glad we won't have Killian moping around that he's not worth being saved the rest of this arc! Too bad he didn't comment on the baby stuff in their Underbrooke house. Maybe we'll get Emma talking to her parents about it in an upcoming episode? Yeah--I can dream.

 

Since when does Regina have a hard time forgiving herself? lol Apparently she is everyone's counsellor now. But I like this way better than her usual "snark". 

 

The David/Cruella scenes were priceless! Moar Cruella, please! 

 

Finally David gets to be grandpa again! That was a sweet moment.

 

I hope this is the end of Henry wanting to be a hero. He needs to be grounded for never listening to his mothers (hah).

 

I completely forgot about Robin until I saw the promo for next week.

[sharky]

As far as the pacing goes... even someone I was watching with thought Liam's lie would have lasted a few episodes or something. All I can figure is that the writers wanted to wrap up Killian's issues as quickly as possible so they could move right on to the Firebird/Hades/Zelena stuff quicker. They didn't want Liam in more than one episode, either.

I think this is actually a bigger over-arching issue this half season. At the beginning of the episode, someone needs to be saved. At the end, they are saved. It's all fine and dandy for someone like Hercules, but we've had seasons to wonder about Regina's father or Killian's brother or even Milah. And it all gets wrapped up in one episode? It could've been really cool to see more than just a five-second shot of Henry with Henry. Or what if Milah was alive and still helping Killian and company, and Liam was able to take her with him? That would've been awesome! But that would've meant two episodes with Milah and we can't have that!

 

I just wanted more than an hour with this huge relationship that has had such an effect on Killian's life.

[retrograde]

I noticed the motive had changed from "make Emma not be a murderer" to "Emma feels so guilty." But you know, kid, somehow I doubt bringing Cruella back to life is going to make Emma feel any better. 

When Henry said that, I was hoping Emma would respond with, "Wuh? I don't feel guilty for that. I killed her because I thought it would save you, and I'd do it again."

[Sarcastica]

I liked the episode, yet at the same time I kinda didn't? I wanted to love it.....oh well.

Cruella is a freaking hoot. I just love that evil lady. 

Henry talking about wanting to be a hero? Jesus kid shut up. SHUT UP(I screamed that out loud to my tv). Could not stop rolling my eyes...

The Killy and Liam back story stuff kinda made me bored. Stuff in present day Underworld felt rushed. 

I'm glad Liam moved on to a happy place. Killian wants to have a future! Yay. Yeah, I fist pumped at that Killian/Emma kiss.

[Mari]

I missed a few minutes here and there, but was Robin just gone the entire episode with no explanation?

Yup.

 I'm sure he's somewhere.  Regina's name's on a tombstone.

There're plenty of crypts around, and he moves on quickly.

 

Since when does Regina have a hard time forgiving herself? lol Apparently she is everyone's counsellor now. But I like this way better than her usual "snark". 

 

Me, too.  A few more episodes of this Regina, and my obligatory over-the-top Regina praise might actually start being a little, tiny, bit sincere. 

 

When Henry said that, I was hoping Emma would respond with, "Wuh? I don't feel guilty for that. I killed her because I thought it would save you, and I'd do it again."

I wish I could up-thumb this comment at least 3,234 times.

[mjgchick]

I will say, this is probably my least favorite Hook episode. I don't know something was just off. I blame part of it on how weak Bernard is as an actor.

 

I really hope theirs more to Killian looking at the baby crib. Maybe we'll figure out later on.

[Shanna Marie]

Jinx!!!

So obviously we're right if we both thought it. :-)

 

Henry talking about wanting to be a hero? Jesus kid shut up. SHUT UP(I screamed that out loud to my tv). Could not stop rolling my eyes...

I really hate all the characters on this show talking about wanting to be heroes. Henry bothers me a teeny bit less because he's a kid, but he says it more, so it evens out. You can want to do the right thing. You can want to be brave. You can want to live up to an ideal. You can want to be worthy of the position you hold or the person you love. But when you say you want to be a hero, what I hear is that you want personal glory and fame. It's like wanting to be famous rather than wanting to accomplish something worthy of fame. There's a difference.

 

I can't tell you how relieved I was when the lake of fire turned into an ocean with the ship on it after Liam fell. I think if he'd let go of Killian's hand and let himself fall to the bad place and that was how they left it, after we had Milah get thrown into the River of Souls last week, I'd have been done with this show. There would have been table flipping, for sure, and that would have made a mess. I'm still not totally cool with the idea that him letting go of his brother's hand counted as a sacrifice that would allow him to move on. If that hadn't worked out the way it had, it would have utterly destroyed Killian. He might as well have been thrown straight into the River of Souls because there would have been no coming back from him watching his brother fall into the fiery pit because he couldn't hold on (and you know that's how he'd have seen it). That act was not a kindness on Liam's part to Killian.

[Eolivet]

I think this is actually a bigger over-arching issue this half season. At the beginning of the episode, someone needs to be saved. At the end, they are saved.

 

This is a really good point, and why this season is reading less like a cohesive arc and more like...guest actor fanservice. Ooh, we have an Underworld arc so let's bring back some old favorites! But only for one episode, because we don't want to pay them! There's no reason why Cora, Regina's father, Milah or Liam (or Neal) should've been in the Underworld other than "Memorable character -- back for one episode only!" Or in Cruella's case -- "Whoopsie, killed her off too soon -- let's remedy that now." These past few episodes, I feel like I'm seeing the actors and their relationship with the show, as opposed to their characters and their relationship with the story (if that makes any sense).

 

So, the retcon for Liam irritated me, because all I could see was the puppet strings of the show trying to contrive of a reason why he'd be here (Secret Deal with Hades!) and having to rewrite his original story in order to do it.

 

I wasn't a huge fan of the Hercules story, but I liked getting to know someone from a character's past who we never met before. That at least used the Underworld as a character development tool as opposed to a revolving Hey It's That Guy/Gal guest spot-o-meter.

[Hook75]

Once again, I couldn't hear most of the dialogue because of the loud music.

[Randomosity]

Oh, also, when they said the sheriff had the key, my brain: "Graham's back?!" James who? :P

[Daisy]

Oh, also, when they said the sheriff had the key, my brain: "Graham's back?!" James who? :P

 

 

lol thats who i thought too!!

[mjgchick]

Yeah, so far Hercules is the only story I've liked in the Underworld because he was new. I just wished they did not write Meg the way the did.

 

Honestly the only guest I wish they could bring back is Graham and that's because it still bothers me that these people don't know (or maybe they ignore it.) that Regina killed him because he said "No." to her when it came to sex. Regina saying she feels guilt over the things she's done in the past? When girl? I can sit here all night and you can read to me all the things you feel guilty over.

[Selina K]

I am in the same boat - ha- in that I was excited for it, wanted to love it, and was checking the clock thinking wow how much more. When I like the Regina and Emma scenes, and Henry and apprentice and David scenes better than any time Hook and Liam were on screen together, that says something. It's like they finally found an actor Colin O'Donoghue does not have chemistry with. I liked the brief Captain Swan moments, but could have used more time on those than on the flashbacks which just felt like info dump to me. I already knew Killian worshipped his brother. I didn't need 45 minutes of dark ocean to tell me he wasn't worth the pedestal. I liked that Emma had Liam's number 5 minutes after meeting him. I don't know, it just felt meh - last week was more engaging and gave me new perspective on Milah. This was just kind of there.

[Jul 68]

Henry talking about wanting to be a hero? Jesus kid shut up. SHUT UP(I screamed that out loud to my tv). Could not stop rolling my eyes...

I think Henry wants to be a Hero so that he can live up to the standards that he feels his family has set. They are all (Regina included) heroes in his eyes and are all (generally except Regina) hailed as such. I can see how a teenager in that family would feel an overwhelming pressure to be one.

[Shanna Marie]

So, the retcon for Liam irritated me, because all I could see was the puppet strings of the show trying to contrive of a reason why he'd be here (Secret Deal with Hades!) and having to rewrite his original story in order to do it.

I'd have thought that the fact that he basically killed himself out of sheer stubbornness and left his little brother utterly alone in the world would have been enough to do the trick. He was a human being, so he still would have fallen short of the figure Killian made him out to be. He could have been cooperating with Hades now because Hades threatened his brother.

 

I'm not sure if they intended this, but it seemed like they were showing that Killian was actually the one who was truly captain material. He was the one who figured out that they were off-course (and having Liam be the one to go below to look at the charts was a clumsy way to get him alone with Hades, given that Killian was the one who ended up being a navigator). He was doing most of the rallying toward mutiny. He was the one holding the crew together while Liam was making his deal with Hades. And he was the one thinking of the crew in the Underworld and making sure they got on the boat, when I think Liam was just hoping for Killian to join him.

[Randomosity]

I'm not sure if they intended this, but it seemed like they were showing that Killian was actually the one who was truly captain material. 

 

Good point. It's almost too well-thought out and fitting a message for it to have been intentional on this show. They tend smack you in the face (repeatedly) with the stuff they think is so clever.

[Watt]

Y'all know I love my baes Emma and Hook but I was just whatever about this episode. Thought the pacing was weird. Didn't like Liam at all. I just guess I was expecting...well I don't know what. It just was kind of weird to me, I guess. I just felt like it was sort of cut and pasted together and Im disappointed because I love everything that's supposed to be killian focused.

Cruella can stay. I never hated Regina like some do here, and I think she's funny most of the time, didn't miss Robin or Rumple, and Henry's story is just meh right now. I hope this isn't leading into a redux of the last season finale.

Looking forward to zelena next week. I enjoy Hades.

Edit because words are hard. I blame being pregnant, it works for everything else. I can't form coherent sentences any more than I can tie my own shoes at this point.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Watt

[Guest]

So, the retcon for Liam irritated me, because all I could see was the puppet strings of the show trying to contrive of a reason why he'd be here (Secret Deal with Hades!) and having to rewrite his original story in order to do it.

 

I'm getting the feeling that they keep writing scripts thinking that Hades is the devil and then someone is fixing it in the final script but not enough to save the narrative or have anything make sense.

 

Almost everything about this episode seemed like Liam sold all their souls to Hades and that is why they were in the underworld.  So at the end when Hook declares something along the lines of 'you know how you died, your unfinished business is over, you can go' I did a double take.   Because really,  that is the crew's unfinished business...they didn't know Liam intentionally sank the boat in the storm and now that they know they died in a storm because Liam was greedy rather than stupid, they can move on.  Seems like they are avoiding the Devil 'owned' their souls and Liam's sacrifice released them.  Its a bit of a mess. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by ParadoxLost

[Rumsy4]

It's like they finally found an actor Colin O'Donoghue does not have chemistry with. 

 

LMAO. I think Bernard Curry is just not good enough to elevate poor writing. If the writers had allowed the characters to breath for a minute, it might have worked out better. As it was, they were jumping from scene to scene. And we did not even get to see the brothers hug?!  

[Mathius]

I thought this was the best episode thus far, but I seem to be in the minority (though really, some people say last week's exercise in unpleasantness was better? At least today's guest star got to move on to the afterlife and not die again.) 

 

The weakest part was the flashback, it was dull (and featured Hades' dreaded blue hair.)  But I liked all of the present-day stuff, and even if people hate him, I for one loved seeing darker shades actually being applied to Henry's character.

Edited March 28, 2016 by Mathius

[Shanna Marie]

It's like they finally found an actor Colin O'Donoghue does not have chemistry with.

At least we still have that rock ...

 

But I think the writing here didn't help matters. They seemed fine back in "Good Form," but if you're showing the century or so later reunion of two brothers who were left alone in the world together after the death of one of them sent the other on a dark path he's only just started to recover one and you skip the actual reunion, that doesn't give them any real foundation to work with. Hook is a hugger. Look at his big farewell hug with Neal. We should have had something on that level when they were reunited, but the reunion happened during the commercial break. That meant that everything else about their relationship from that point seemed kind of weak because we didn't get to see them acting like brothers. We didn't get to see little brother Killian overjoyed to see his big brother again. We didn't get to see Liam react to the "Captain Hook" thing or see how Killian felt about his brother seeing the hook and learning what he'd done with his life. We didn't get to see Liam reacting to what Killian did with his life. We saw none of the things that we've been waiting to see in a reunion between those two. It was more like a neighbor who's been out of town for a few days dropping by for coffee and to pick up the mail and newspapers.

 

And the flashback still seems just wrong to me. I may have to erase it from my head canon because it doesn't quite compute. We've come up with so many better and more creative backstories. Now I take back all my wishes for Hook backstory, since what they've given us is so pedestrian, and now it closes off the avenues for making it interesting.

[tennisgurl]

I will be able to judge more of this episode when I watch this again tomorrow, but I think the parts of this episode were better than the sum of it. It had lots of good scenes, but when you put them together, it was rather choppy. 

 

I feel bad for a lot of fans who came up with all kinds of backstories for the Brothers Jones, and it all kind of fell apart in this episode. 

Edited March 28, 2016 by tennisgurl

[sharky]

LMAO. I think Bernard Curry is just not good enough to elevate poor writing. If the writers had allowed the characters to breath for a minute, it might have worked out better. As it was, they were jumping from scene to scene. And we did not even get to see the brothers hug?!

Ha! Good point. Makes me appreciate the talent of the regular actors even more. If this is how good they are with the crap written for them, imagine their success when this show is over. I'm calling it now: Oscar winner Josh Dallas.

[Guest]

LMAO. I think Bernard Curry is just not good enough to elevate poor writing. If the writers had allowed the characters to breath for a minute, it might have worked out better. As it was, they were jumping from scene to scene. And we did not even get to see the brothers hug?!  

 

This was probably the poorest job the writers have done in making the flashbacks as relevant to the main character as the guest character.  Henry, Herc, and Milah flashbacks were all much more layered in the writing than this.  Hook's part in the Hook/Liam flashbacks just boiled down to Hook hero worships his brother.  Well, duh.

 

But, the actor who plays Liam is pretty terrible. The only thing that could have saved the episode is making it less focused on him.

[profdanglais]

Yeah, not a fan of this one. I've never liked Liam, despite Good Form being one of my favourite episodes, and this just reinforced all the reasons why I don't like him. What's the basis of Killian's hero worship? Is it just needing someone to look up to? We've certainly never seen Liam do anything to deserve it. Also, count me as one who doesn't care for young Killian being a screw up. It retcons Good Form too much. Plus. soooo many questions. Such as:

 

How did Killian learn to navigate?

How did he learn to dance? 

How did he learn that fancy handwriting? 

How did he learn sword fighting?

 

It makes so little sense, if they were sold into slavery at such a young age and then went straight from being slaves to being Naval officers, when did he have the time to learn any of the above? This whole season has done such a number on Killian's character. 

 

Also: Hey, strangers who have washed up on this beach under questionable circumstances with a mythical sparkly rock! Come join my crew! I totally trust you completely! 

 

At least Cruella is fun to watch. 

[thuganomics85]

Eh, I didn't hate this episode but I was kind of bored with it.  Even though I like Hook a lot, I'm just indifferent to his backstory and relationship with Liam.  I think a lot of it is just that the actor playing Liam really isn't that good.  Again, not horrid, but just kind of a blank slate, and Colin pretty much outacted him off the screen, without even having to try.  So, I could care less about Liam dark past by making a deal with Hades to save his and Hook's life and then redeeming himself and going to a "better place."  Just felt like a bunch of boring filler.

 

Favorite part was easily Cruella vamping it up with Charming, and her totally knowing he wasn't James.  Charming might be good at a lot of things, but he's not exactly great at pretending to be a bad boy, it's safe to say.

 

Actually, I'm glad Henry at least went ahead and told everyone the truth, even if I still think the whole "I don't want Emma to feel guilty for killing Cruella!  Even though she was the one threatening my life!" idea is stupid.  And I liked that it was Charming that helped lead to him opening up.  Go Grandpa!

 

Where did Robin go?  And I'm guessing Rumpel is just still in Hades' lair, crying over how he got his stupid-ass played last week.

 

So, the big secret is.....  Hades and Zelena had a something-something going along.  I guess this means any day now, she'll be back, complete with Rebecca Mader devouring the scenery while showing as much cleavage as she can on an 8 p.m. network show.

[swimmyfish]

If it was so easy for Emma to magik away Hook's wounds, why hasn't she ever restored his hand?

And shouldn't Liam have been able to buy his own boat with the Eye of the Storm jewel? Why would he turn that over to the king? That was a real weak storyline, IMO.

Was the captain supposed to be Long John Silver?

I kind of liked that Henry wants to be a hero. It's like he's as bored of his role on the show as we are.