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15 hours ago, Melancholy said:

I think Road Trip to Harvard is very funny but Lorelai is particularly insufferable in it. Running away from her problems and leaving Sookie to deal with the social fallout, treating Rory terribly for daring to ask for a conversation to help her deal with and understand why Lorelai upended Rory's future, actually pulling the "I'm your mom, not your best friend" card all of a sudden specifically to avoid doing a mother's work to help her child emotionally cope with familial chaos, the hypocritical condescension about the Cheshire, treating the Cheshire Cat owner so rudely with no empathy for the challenges of their very similar jobs, treating Harvard student's very private dorm rooms like her own personal jungle gym with no heed to their rights to privacy and security. 

I just wanted to quote this because I agree with it completely.  I can't even watch the episode without forcing myself.  "Satanic forces are at work here?"  Really?  She's so oversensitive at times to slights by others, and so insensitive to other people at times.

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Road Trip to Harvard is one of my least favorite season two Lorelai episodes for all the reasons people have listed. It's just not...a good episode for her. 

However, I think one of my favorite season two Lorelai episodes is Dead Uncles and Vegetables. I love how Lorelai and Rory just jump in to help Luke and the diner talk and how Lorelai really gets into it. And she really is there for Luke in that episode. It shows how close of a friendship/relationship L/L have, that despite how self-absorbed/selfish Lorelai can come across at times that she really does value her friendships and is generally a good person despite her many (many) flaws. 

I even like Rory and Jess in that episode. That's saying a lot coming from me as I loathe Jess. 

Of course, as close as L/L are in that episode, it saddens me to know that it all goes to hell only two episodes later, at least for the remainder of season 2.

And @Eeksquire, I've seen the whole series, but I think I block out anything from that last season. LOL. 

Edited by JaggedLilPill
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44 minutes ago, JaggedLilPill said:

And @Eeksquire, I've seen the whole series, but I think I block out anything from that last season. LOL. 

You are wise. ;)

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 I think one of my favorite season two Lorelai episodes is Dead Uncles and Vegetables.

Ditto.  It's one of my favorite 3 from the entire series.  So many nice L & L moments, so much warmth between them.

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7 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

Ditto.  It's one of my favorite 3 from the entire series.  So many nice L & L moments, so much warmth between them.

Same! I love how they showed that Lorelai was there for Luke as well without asking and it was lovely seeing Rory helping as well. It just shows how much they care about Luke and want to help him. :)

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On Monday, October 17, 2016 at 1:43 PM, ChlcGirl said:

I just started my rewatch in anticipation for 11/25 and am at Road Trip to Harvard.  I've always ranked this one LOOOOOOWWWWW in GG episodes but I was struck today by something that hadn't ocurred to me before.  Lorelei and Rory make a lot of fun of the look of the Cheshire Cat B&B ... but really, does their house decor look much different?  Pot meet pot.

Neither one of them have much self awareness. I wonder if Lorelai's bias against B&B's is some weird snobbery because she works in an inn. Makes me speculate on what she would think of the airbnb business. I actually love Road Trip to Harvard because of the Rory and Lorelai scenes, I'm a sucker for a good mother/daughter episode. But they are pretty rude to everyone they encounter on their trip. 

 

20 hours ago, JaggedLilPill said:

That's true. I guess for me, I would politely say, "Okay, thanks for the concern," and continue eating LOL. 

The coffee thing is ridiculous. He does serve tea (although not chai! Don't be hating on chai, Luke!) but he serves wayyyy more coffee. Lorelai may be a coffee junkie, but he's her enabler. 

Al's Pancake World always sounded like a train wreck, but one I'd want to be part of. 

I know, right?

The thing about GG is if you really delve into it, there's so much meta-worthy aspects to explore. Even with the food. You have Lorelai coming from an environment where she probably had (well, unless Emily fired a maid before she got a new one!) homemade breakfasts and going to one where, unless she is at Luke's or Weston's, her and Rory are sustained by pop tarts. Not that there is anything wrong with pop tarts, but it's interesting to consider if even the food she eats is a rebellion against her past.

Another chai tea fan right here lol I can kinda see why Luke wouldn't sell them, it doesn't exactly go with diner food. Probably be something very few people ordered. 

I think it's interesting that Lorelai spent her childhood having a cook feed her, and in her adulthood she almost entirely eats in restaurants. Even during her tiff with Luke, she was going to Sookie's every morning and having breakfast there. Obviously the food she eats is very different from what she ate while at Emily's but it is still having someone wait on her and feed her.

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On ‎10‎/‎6‎/‎2016 at 3:11 AM, junienmomo said:

Presenting Lorelai Gilmore

Just a couple of thoughts that came up during a recent rewatch...

  • Christopher was a real jerk letting Lorelai come on to him for so long. Her kiss was a kiss of promise stronger than her balcony night with him. If he hadn't confessed about Sherry, a good point for him, Rory would have found her parents together the next day. 
  • That would have really changed the next episodes, particularly her relationship with Luke. Gone would be the jokes about has he dated anyone, and especially the Ava scene. She would have had absolutely no grounds to call him out because Christopher would have been all over SH on the weekends and the Christopher-Lorelai relationship would be front and center. But the night of the debutante ball, that is exactly what Lorelai was signing up for.
  • Lorelai was really lacking in self-reflection, unwilling to tell Rory about the aborted Christopher relationship (a good parenting move), but went to her mother for an awkward morning in which she wanted Emily to do exactly what Lorelai felt was impossible when she was in the same situation.

I love that ending scene with Lorelai and Emily. I've watched that scene a million times. Its perfect. Awkward and Emily's expression as Lorelai explains why she stopped by. Lorelai telling her mom if she wanted to talk. I really wanted more of these kinds of scenes.  

Edited by andromeda331
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I am still working my way through my first watch of this series and am halfway through season 2. So my observations are up until this point.

Lorelei-I get some of her angst toward her parents, especially her mom. Sometimes though she takes it way too far. I just finished the episode where Rory asked Emily to help pay for the termite extermination and Lorelei was up in arms. In the end, she did take Emily's help but painted it to Rory as if she figured out a way on her own. That bugged me.

Lorelei and Rory (and Lane)-I am so mad that I did not watch this show as a teen. (I am probably smack dab in the middle of the fictional ages of Rory and Lorelei.) We share almost the exact same eclectic musical taste. I must say that they come off as music snobs though, and it has crossed from endearing to annoying.

Christopher-Am I supposed to believe that he truly is a deadbeat dad and that Lorelei has been providing for Rory not just emotionally for 16 years but financially? I guess that would sit better with me if he was this young kid who chose not to have contact or he "adulted" up after a while and tried to do better. It seems to me (at least where I am at) that he is slightly doing better in his life but still is barely there for Rory. Lorelei barely calls him out on it.

Luke-I think I like him but he is a bit dramatic. I am not sure how I feel about him and Lorelei. The jury is still out on how I feel about Lorelei actually.

I think if I had watched when this originally aired that I would probably be team Dean. Now, I really dislike the actor who plays Dean and love Milo, the actor plays Jess, and am biased for team Jess.

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Very insightful, Enigma X.  Many of us have had multiple viewings and have flipped back and forth over the years. It's fun to see someone new and hear the feedback.     

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2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Very insightful, Enigma X.  Many of us have had multiple viewings and have flipped back and forth over the years. It's fun to see someone new and hear the feedback.     

I will keep my opinions coming as I view the show. I am only on season 2 and expect that I will flop and flop as I view more episodes.

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17 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I will keep my opinions coming as I view the show. I am only on season 2 and expect that I will flop and flop as I view more episodes.

Glad to see a new viewer that is enjoying the show. The correct spelling of Rory and her mother's name is Lorelai. Only one e in her name, sorry, pet peeve.

Edited by chessiegal · Reason: edited to have correct spelling of Lorelai

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17 hours ago, Enigma X said:

I will keep my opinions coming as I view the show. I am only on season 2 and expect that I will flop and flop as I view more episodes.

I only got to watch two more episodes and I have already sort of flip flopped. I was Team Jess in season one merely because Milo Ventimiglia was playing him, and I don't like Padalecki. Now, I am Team Jess because I actually like him.

One of the episodes that I watched was "It Should've Been Lorelai." As much as I know that Christopher will annoy me throughout the series, I agree with him that Lorelai had some balls placing her baggage on him like that. So far, Lorelai doesn't come off as mature as she thinks she is.

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I just watched seasons 2 recently and this has been bugging me.  The night of Rory and Jess's car accident, Luke finds Jess on the bridge (after the fight with Lorelai) and tells him that he knows Jess made sure Rory was okay and then he sat next to him.  I love how Luke is there for Jess and shows how much he cares about him without even saying a word. Then during the movie in the square, Babette tells Miss Patty that Jess wanted to leave town so Luke put Jess on a bus back to his mom in New York.  Later when Jess comes back in the episode where Suki and Jackson get married, he tells Luke he wants to come back and  Luke implies that he sent Jess away.  So I am confused. Did Jess want to leave town the night of the accident?  Did he want to leave because he felt guilty about the accident and the whole town would hate him or come down on Luke again or did Luke tell him to leave?  Why would Luke insist that he leave when the accident was just that and it wasn't Jess's fault?  Was it to protect Jess from the town's wrath?  I love the relationship between Luke and Jess.  They don't express their love verbally but they show how much they care about each other by their accidents like Jess fixing the toaster or helping with the wake after the uncle died.   I really think that Lorelai's treatment of Jess is one of the main reasons he didn't tell her about April.

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The one thing I loved was that little moment between Rory and Luke when she told him it wasn't Jess' fault and he was the only one who told her he knew it wasn't and who agreed with her. A sweet moment. ?

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Just a heads up @jaylee-03031 this question will probably get moved to an appropriate catch-all thread, but I'll go ahead and comment here anyway.

 

9 hours ago, jaylee-03031 said:

Later when Jess comes back in the episode where Suki and Jackson get married, he tells Luke he wants to come back and  Luke implies that he sent Jess away. 

I think the accident was just kind of the final straw.  Luke knew the accident wasn't Jess's fault and I believe he made sure Jess understood he knew that, but at the same time the townie hatred of Jess had been building for a while and Luke knew very good and well they were going to come down on Jess for the accident, and come down hard.  Plus Luke was already kind of feeling like a failure, like he wasn't really helping Jess at all (which was the whole reason Jess moved there in the first place) so after the accident he figured it would be best if Jess just went back home before the townies brought out the tar and feathers for real.  And I believe Jess understood the situation enough to leave without a fight.

When Jess came back and Luke told him things were going to have to be different, I think Luke was referring to the petty vandalism and everything as a whole.  If he was going to take a chance and let Jess move back in, Jess was going to have to show that he wanted to be there this time, that this was his choice and not something being forced on him that he felt justified in rebelling against.

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I just wanted to say that I'm a big GG fan.  My daughter is 14 and we started watching the whole season together when we have spare time.  ALL of season two was a lesson on why I don't want her dating a "Dean".  LOL.  

It's a good way to show our daughters the subtle traits (or not so subtle) of a controlling boyfriend.  

Edited by Meow25 · Reason: addition
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I'm doing a slow rewatch of season 2. I haven't watched this since the show ended. There are new little things that stand out. I always hated Christopher. Bracebridge Dinner, he calls Lorelai and says he would like Rory to visit, is it ok with Lorelai?. Lorelai is like it's fine with her, but up to Rory. So that's fine, and it is good for him to check with Lorelai but then he's like ok then, I'll wait for you to run it by her.

So he doesn't have the nerve/can't be bothered to call Rory himself? What an ass. I think it's the former- he doesn't have the nerve to ask Rory directly, and relies on Lorelai to run interference for him. 

I still can't watch any other ASP show bc of how she fucked this one over in the end. And she always seemed obnoxious in interviews. 

Edited by cleo
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On 8/26/2018 at 7:46 PM, Meow25 said:

I just wanted to say that I'm a big GG fan.  My daughter is 14 and we started watching the whole season together when we have spare time.  ALL of season two was a lesson on why I don't want her dating a "Dean".  LOL.  

It's a good way to show our daughters the subtle traits (or not so subtle) of a controlling boyfriend.  

Maybe a greater gift to humanity would be to also teach her never to treat a guy like Rory treated Dean.

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I'm also a new viewer of this show and I'm through two-thirds of season 2 at this point.  I agree with Meow25 - Dean is too controlling.  That whole episode about how Rory has to apologize for wanting to have an evening alone, and then when not only Paris but Jess ignore her wishes, and Dean too, and Rory has to repeatedly ask/beg Dean if he is mad or not to be mad, just set off all my radar.  Perhaps it's my years of working with crime victims, but that episode was screaming DANGER! DANGER! to me.  Walk away, Rory.  This guy seems about two steps from thinking he can tell you what you can wear, what you can eat, where you can go, who you can be with.  I have no idea where the Rory/Dean relationship is going, or if Rory/Jess will be a thing, but I'm really hoping Rory is not with Dean long term.  She deserves better.  I don't think Jess is the person for her either. He is just as bad as Dean, forcing himself into her home when she asks him to leave, etc.  Rory, graduate, go to college, and realize there are more options than what is offered in Stars Hollow.  

I wish I had a Sookie in my life. I'd like to know someone who would make me 4 kinds of pesto, 3 different desserts, and put it all in an edible pretzel basket.  Of course, if I had a Sookie in my life, I'd probably weigh about 800 pounds.  

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On 9/21/2018 at 8:20 AM, stan4 said:

Maybe a greater gift to humanity would be to also teach her never to treat a guy like Rory treated Dean.

I think the ideal message for teenagers is "This is not how two people in a healthy relationship behave."

If I remember correctly, before Jess had even arrived in Stars Hollow Dean got mad at Rory for wanting to do a Habitat-for-Humanity type service project to help her chances of getting into Harvard, instead of spending that time with him. Yes, I know he apologized later, but I thought his anger was ridiculous and disturbing.  If he doesn't have anyone to hang out with/anything going on in his life aside from a girlfriend when he's not at school, working, participating in athletics or at home with his parents and sister, that's his problem. The only time I remember him hanging out with a guy was when Lane begged Rory to have Dean help play matchmaker between her and the guy.

I believe Rory fell out of love with Dean and clearly had feelings for Jess, and she certainly didn't handle things well with Dean. However, I think the messages she was getting from Lorelai/Stars Hollow folk, and how Lorelai raised her, were factors in how Rory behaved. Lorelai raised Rory to agree with all of Lorelai's views on everything from what food is "good" to how the Gilmore house was not a place to go willingly, and to just roll with how she handled everything. When Rory didn't behave as Lorelai wanted/expected her to, Lorelai would get upset about the glimmer of independence. So Rory getting into a relationship with a controlling guy is not surprising.  Then Lorelai constantly praises how wonderful Dean is, while trash talking Jess.  Rory's response was to passively aggressively let her feelings for Jess be known, while trying not to upset these two people who want her all to themselves (yes, they were willing to share with Lane). After spending an afternoon with Jess, Rory actually had to defend her choice to her mother to hang out with this guy. Lorelai's response was well, I guess I can give him a chance. I could understand Lorelai being concerned at that point if Jess had any history of engaging in dangerous behaviors around Rory, getting arrested, etc. but he didn't. 

Rory had real trouble with doing the hard thing of asserting her independence to her mother and Dean.  Dean seemed to want Rory to declare that he was her one and only love for the rest of her life when they were teenagers who had only been dating a few months, and Lorelai did nothing to discourage Dean from being so serious about her daughter.  I really think the problem started there.

What really got me was Dean's outrage after the second breakup when Luke said something to him like, "Rory grew up and her life isn't just about Stars Hollow anymore, accept it."  My response was seriously, get over it and focus on getting yourself into a good place in your life. He was the one who started with the deception by innocently asking Lorelai where Rory was, then going to their house because he knew Rory was alone and that he wanted to rekindle a romance with her - when he was not in a position to do so. "I'm not happy in my marriage and so it's over" doesn't cut it.  For all the contempt and judgement Dean and Lorelai showed Jess, at least he broke up with the blonde girl before he and Rory became a couple. 

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I totally agree. Maybe it was wrong to constantly pursue Rory while she was with Dean and deliberately wind Dean up but Jess didn’t actually do anything while they were together. Rory was the one who kissed him in season 2, not the other way round. And I don’t think he got enough credit for breaking up with Shane before letting things happen between him and Rory as well. Sure, maybe he was using Shane a bit to make Rory jealous but Dean slept with Rory when he was still married to Lindsey. And Jess is the bad guy?? I get that Jess wasn’t perfect but Dean wasn’t either.

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He used Shane like a tissue and again is getting credit for acting like a normal human being and breaking up with her.  We never saw it, so we don't even know how he did it.

 

Amazing.

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17 minutes ago, stan4 said:

He used Shane like a tissue and again is getting credit for acting like a normal human being and breaking up with her.  We never saw it, so we don't even know how he did it.

 

Amazing.

The reason I give him credit is because as a 17-year-old, he handled things better than Dean did as a legal adult at age 19/20 with Rory and Lindsey, and better than Lorelai did as a 30-something adult with Luke and Christopher - after both of them acted like Jess had no redeeming value.  

I don't disagree with you that Jess used Shane. I believe that Dean went on to marry Lindsey at least in part to get over Rory, then decided it was okay to pursue Rory because he wasn't happy in his marriage. He went to Lorelai's house when he knew Rory was alone there, to pick up where they left off when he almost kissed her at the Dragonfly (after being hostile toward Rory because she had the audacity to say yes, she would talk to Jess when he showed up at her college). Then clearly had no remorse when they were in Rory's bed. When he went back to his marital home that night, he gave Lindsey attitude and did not confess that he had just committed adultery. Lorelai walked away with Luke in anger and heartbreak, deciding their engagement was over, and hours later slept with Christopher (which was absolutely using him).  

I guess I just find it ironic that a teenager with no clear commitment to that girl Shane makes a clean break with her before he and Rory kiss for the first time as a new couple, whereas as a married adult male and an older adult woman who has been engaged, both have sex with another when in theory they should be showing far better judgement than Jess at 17.

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Dean seemed to want Rory to declare that he was her one and only love for the rest of her life when they were teenagers who had only been dating a few months, and Lorelai did nothing to discourage Dean from being so serious about her daughter.  I really think the problem started there.

And it echoes Lorelai's issues - she viewed Christopher (for a long time) as her One True Love.  Even with him never really showing up for Rory, she always - in the back of her mind, thought he would eventually show up.  Until Season 7.

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When he went back to his marital home that night, he gave Lindsey attitude and did not confess that he had just committed adultery.

I have to say, all of the wrongs Dean committed, this one is not near the top of my list.  If he had, the moment he left Rory, realized that he made a terrible mistake and recommitted to Lindsay, then not telling her is - I think - the better, kinder path.  Sometimes confessing your sins is only good for you and not good for the person you've wronged. 

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Unless I’m misremembering, Shane wasn’t even in Season 2. Kindly take discussion of episodes she was in to the Season 3 or All Episodes thread.

Thanks.

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12 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

The reason I give him credit is because as a 17-year-old, he handled things better than Dean did as a legal adult at age 19/20 with Rory and Lindsey, and better than Lorelai did as a 30-something adult with Luke and Christopher - after both of them acted like Jess had no redeeming value.  

 

Oh, yes.  We can always find examples of other people acting worse than Jess did.  Lorelai and Rory are the least likely candidates in my book of shining examples of outstanding humanity.  In fact, I think they're kind of awful people with no insight to their own behavior.

 

On the whole, though, Jess is a pretty big jerk overall.  If we just use decent people as a benchmark and not a couple of self-absorbed nitwits.

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2 hours ago, stan4 said:

On the whole, though, Jess is a pretty big jerk overall.  If we just use decent people as a benchmark and not a couple of self-absorbed nitwits.

I LOL'ed at "nitwits," so thank you. I keep in mind, though, that Jess and Rory were kids (minors) during Season 2, and in Rory's case I hold Lorelai's parenting/controlling behavior mostly responsible for the way Rory behaved. It just irritated me that Lorelai was so critical of Jess, a kid, when she was a self-absorbed, self-destructive person at an age to be quite literally old enough to be Jess's mother. I dislike hypocrisy.

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16 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I LOL'ed at "nitwits," so thank you. I keep in mind, though, that Jess and Rory were kids (minors) during Season 2, and in Rory's case I hold Lorelai's parenting/controlling behavior mostly responsible for the way Rory behaved. It just irritated me that Lorelai was so critical of Jess, a kid, when she was a self-absorbed, self-destructive person at an age to be quite literally old enough to be Jess's mother. I dislike hypocrisy.

That bothered me too. If it was just hating Jess I can see why she would. He's a jerk to everyone, his 'tude, and he did steal in the beginning and against the idea of someone like that dating her daughter (to a point). He was a jerk to her when she originally tried to talk to him after he took a beer from her fridge. The part that bugs me is how she immediately writes him off completely. Telling Luke that Jess was more screwed up then Luke realize, yes that was right. But then acting like he should get rid of Jess. That's how you deal with a difficult teen Lorelai? You'd think she'd have more sympathy since she was messed up too and couldn't wait to get out of her house. But the bigger problem is pretty much the same problem I have with Lorelai's parents. Lorelai thinks and acts like she's a really great parent I'm not say she isn't she does a good job raising Rory. But Rory is easy! She's a shy quiet kid who loves to do her school work and homework. She loves books. She's rarely rude. They generally have the same tastes in music, TV and movies. Rory likes to please her mother and her grandparents. She generally doesn't mind anything they ask of her. Would that still be the case if Rory was anything else? If say she was a mini Lorelai who talked back, who disagreed with her mother, and dated a bunch of different boys? Would Lorelai still say that if Rory was mini Republican? If she wore black and emo? If they liked different things and had different interests? I don't really know if she would or if Lorelai would ever know what to do or how she'd handle a problem child. She's similar to her parents like that. Richard and Emily really do love Rory and clearly favor her over Lorelai. Would that still be the case if Rory wasn't a nice teen who was easy to get a long with? Would Richard still be close to Rory and try to be if she wasn't someone who loved books like he did? Would Emily if Rory was anyone else? If she was a little Lorelai. Or just a teen who loved to hang out at the mall and jam music but zero interested Emily's world? I'm really not sure Lorelai or her parents would like Rory or be as close to her if she was anything else.  Lorelai pretty much is that way with Jess. She completely writes him off after he's rude that first time and is so far critical of him then she is of anyone else. Even though he's clearly a messed up teen. She doesn't ever again try to talk to him or be nice to him or something. I doubt he would have listen but its crazy that she writes him off.    

Edited by andromeda331
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^ All of this.

That's why I rather cheered Luke on when he said "You know, you ever think maybe you just got lucky with Rory?"  It was hitting below the belt, yes, but she needed to hear it.

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Rory likes to please her mother and her grandparents. She generally doesn't mind anything they ask of her. Would that still be the case if Rory was anything else? If say she was a mini Lorelai who talked back, who disagreed with her mother, and dated a bunch of different boys? Would Lorelai still say that if Rory was mini Republican? If she wore black and emo? If they liked different things and had different interests? 

It's funny that Lorelai made exactly these points when Mrs. Kim was freaking out about Lane not raising her children in the church. She said Lane's children may very well want to attend church and not listen to rock and roll but to paraphrase Clarice Starling, she never was strong enough to point that high-powered perception at herself.

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This is really a Rory is irritating post, but I agree with all of the comments re: Lorelai. Lorelai is my favourite character but she is immature. I think partly she reacted so strongly to Jess because of his comment about her sleeping with Luke- it hit a little too close to home. But she is the adult and she should have realized  that in that moment Jess was angry and he wanted to push her away and he did what teenagers do. They are obnoxious and they will say anything to get a reaction, and can have a sixth sense about just what to say to push buttons. An adult would have just sucked that up and tried to have perspective on Jess as a troubled kid. Honestly it was a snarky comment, he didn't attack her or set her house on fire. 

Anyway, back to Rory is irritating lol. I hate this fixation she has with trying to convince her mother to feel/do things that her mother doesn't want to and not respecting that Lorelai's relationship with R/E and with Jess is different than Rory's. So the ep where they need an exterminator and Rory refuses to listen to her mother saying she doesn;t want to ask R/E, and Rory saying Lorelai is just being stubborn. Her actions are all very dismissive. 

Similarly Rory hounding her to try to give Jess a chance, and Lorelai saying quite clearly - just because you like him, doesn't mean I have to, which is true and it would be much healthier if they allowed one another to have different feelings about people.  

Also, I love the scene of Luke knocking out the wall in his apt and telling Jess that's his room. 

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On 10/16/2018 at 7:21 PM, cleo said:

This is really a Rory is irritating post, but I agree with all of the comments re: Lorelai. Lorelai is my favourite character but she is immature. I think partly she reacted so strongly to Jess because of his comment about her sleeping with Luke- it hit a little too close to home. But she is the adult and she should have realized  that in that moment Jess was angry and he wanted to push her away and he did what teenagers do. They are obnoxious and they will say anything to get a reaction, and can have a sixth sense about just what to say to push buttons. An adult would have just sucked that up and tried to have perspective on Jess as a troubled kid. Honestly it was a snarky comment, he didn't attack her or set her house on fire. 

Confession: I probably dislike Jess more than any adult person should dislike a fictional character. I feel like at this point it's just purely to spite the rational part that is like "c'mon, it's been YEARS." No, shut up rational part. I'm a good person. Just let me have this, okay? LOL. Tangent. Anyway, it's hard as a non-Jess fan and a Lorelai fan that she has these moments where I have no choice but to defend Jess. (Car gate is the other one.) I think it was two-fold. One, Lorelai did genuinely want to help Luke out and two, she was used to teenagers being more amenable with her (Rory, Dean, Lane, hell, she even had moments where she managed to calm Paris down.) but like, read the room, woman! 

If I was 17, had been pretty much for all intents and purposes kicked out of my house, sent to live with my uncle in a town of crazies (I mean this in an endearing way....sort of. Most of the time, I did find them funny, but other moments, like yeah, Lorelai, how awful of you to not try harder to get like 40 extra college graduation tickets so the whole town can attend!), the very last thing on earth I'd want is some lady telling me how great it is, give it a chance, etc.

Even with the best of intentions, there's just times you don't need to be spreading your wisdom like that. It was misguided and patronizing. That being said, the sleeping with Luke comment did hit way closer to home. It's telling that that is the comment that set her off. 

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On ‎10‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:23 PM, peacheslatour said:

It's funny that Lorelai made exactly these points when Mrs. Kim was freaking out about Lane not raising her children in the church. She said Lane's children may very well want to attend church and not listen to rock and roll but to paraphrase Clarice Starling, she never was strong enough to point that high-powered perception at herself.

It really is. I do hope that was part of Lorelai having realized that with her own parenting of Rory. She really did most of the time think they were a lot alike and Rory would automatically like the same things she did and hate the same thing she does. Sure Rory's a little different. She was more quiet, shy, introvert who loved to read and school. But Lorelai kept getting surprised that Rory liked things she didn't. Like it never occurred to Rory would like the country club. She admits to Sookie in that episode she wasn't expecting that. As Rory becomes more and more interested in the high society interests Lorelai always seems surprised. She expects to Rory to not care or reject it. As much as I love Lorelai I would have loved for her to realize she's not as open minded person she thinks she is. That she can be as judgmental as her mother. It would be very surprising to her. But it would be nice to have seen Lorelai learning to stop that or trying too. I always hoped when Lorelai's talking to Lane pointing out her children may not like rock n roll its coming from learning she had done the same thing to Rory. Making assumptions and assuming what Rory would like only to find out she was wrong  

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So I just finished a rewatch of season 2, the first time I’ve watched GG since the last season aired. I split the season into two, so most of this post reflects the second half.

Christopher, what a scuzz. I have to rant about the string of eps from when he brings Sherry through to the finale. He comes with Sherry to meet Lorelai, and Lorelai says to him- it was always in the back of her mind that she and Christopher could be together, she was always waiting- and he got really mad. That statement from Lorelai never rang true to me. Christopher was always willing to be around or ‘with her’, he wanted to marry her when she got pregnant, Lorelai always said no. I think bc she knew Christopher didn’t/couldn’t be steady or dependable- he was just flighty and into fun and easy, but also because she didn’t love him.

So then he comes with Sherry, and Lorelai is a little jealous not b/c she really loves or wants him, but because she is used to having him want her, and that always stings a little when someone stops being ‘chased’. But not being terribly introspective, Lorelai interprets the feeling as that she was waiting for him.

So Christopher goes off with Sherry, but that is percolating in the back of his mind, that Lorelai was waiting for him or something, and oh no, he suddenly is having problems with Sherry. Then shows up and sleeps with Lorelai while Sherry is away- not terribly good form for Lorelai either as Christopher had not even broken up with her.

The finale where they sleep together- Lorelai does not even look that enthused lol. It just comes across as casual sex, he was there, she wanted some comfort/male attention, and it was easy. Also not a coincidence that she slept with him when things with Luke were bad.

So yeah I feel like Christopher just mentally started dumping Sherry the minute he thought Lorelai might have him, then rushed back to sleep with her the minute there was an opening. So Christopher- scuzz.

Anyway, I am totally a Luke and Lorelai shipper, even though ASP, LG and SP all shit on it in their various ways.

Other things- I like Paris a lot, and find her very sympathetic and interesting as a character, I think LW does a very good job of actually showing Paris as vulnerable and not just strident. I like Paris much more than Rory, which – zzzz. Also Rory absolutely treats Dean like shit, and really Jess as well. And sometimes her mother too. Yeah I am not a Rory fan.

I’m not really into the Lane storylines. It just doesn’t seem integrated well or something, though I remember liking it more when she hooked up with the band.

Favourite secondary character that is not a Gilmore- Kirk hands down. It was great seeing the black and white film he made again, but I like a lot of Kirk’s scenes.

Love seeing Edward Hermann again. I recently watched the original Overboard on a flight and he was in it as Goldie Hawn’s rich husband. It was neat to see. I was sad when he passed away.

Edited by cleo
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On 10/13/2018 at 3:10 PM, Bringonthedrama said:

If I remember correctly, before Jess had even arrived in Stars Hollow Dean got mad at Rory for wanting to do a Habitat-for-Humanity type service project to help her chances of getting into Harvard, instead of spending that time with him. Yes, I know he apologized later, but I thought his anger was ridiculous and disturbing.

Dean got mad that Rory blew off their plans at the last minute, not because she was trying to help her chances of getting into Harvard. Dean was always supportive of Rory going to Harvard. He was very clear that if she didn't go, it wouldn't be because of him. Also, I never saw Dean being controlling of Rory the way many here seem to. So, I just don't get the dislike of him. Sure, ASP destroyed his character to make Jess more palatable, but I always saw Dean as being a caring and supportive boyfriend who was being treated poorly by the girl he thought liked him as much as he liked her. 

Jess, on the other hand, was just an absolute asshat. He comes into town being a total dick to everyone including his uncle. That scene when he just goes into Rory's room and starts pawing through her stuff and then has the nerve to get pissy because this girl he just met didn't want to climb out her window and sneak away from her home with him really sealed my dislike of him. And I know a lot of people try to use "Ah There's the Rub" as a justification for disliking Dean, but that episode just shows me how much of a creepy creepster Jess is. I mean he finds out Rory is going to be home alone, so he lies to her about Luke preparing her food in order to get invited in the house, and then he refuses to leave. She actually asks him why is he still there and first, he says something about a tip and then says that he will take some fries instead. And when Rory tells him to take as many fries as he wants, he sees that as an invitation. He even tells her that her offer of fries was "invitation-like". And then, the jackass has the nerve to get pissy and make fun of Rory for needing a chaperone when he finds out that Paris is there and Rory invites her to stay. Everything about his behavior was gross and inappropriate because 1. he knew Rory had a boyfriend, and 2. because lying to get into someone's home and refusing to leave is the ultimate in scumball behavior.

If we are using Rory's boyfriends as warnings for teenage girls, we should all remember how often Jess refused to abide by what Rory asked of him. She wanted him to leave he says that the fries were an invitation. He jumps on her sleigh during the Bracebridge dinner and refuses to get off it when she tells him to. He sees her going crazy because she can't find the bracelet Dean made for her, and he gaslights her by first holding on to it and then hiding it in her room and telling her to look for it again.  Everything about Jess should be a big honking red flag of what a girl should avoid in a relationship. But, instead, we are supposed to believe this nonsense is exciting and romantic.

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6 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

 Everything about Jess should be a big honking red flag of what a girl should avoid in a relationship. But, instead, we are supposed to believe this nonsense is exciting and romantic.

I don't think Jess's behavior was exciting and romantic. I think it was Lane who described it that way when Jess showed up at Yale to ask Rory to go away with him.

I saw Dean as being unhealthy for Rory in a completely different way than Jess was unhealthy for her, when he was a teenager. I just find it ironic that Lorelai and Dean, who targeted Jess with contempt, showed less maturity than him as they aged.  I also didn't like that Dean and Lorelai both said "Rory dumped/broke up with" Dean. Umm, nice revisionist history. Dean got angry and made a big public scene of dumping Rory during the marathon dance. (Yes, I know he did that because he could tell Rory and Jess had feelings for each other - but it was still him dumping Rory, not the other way around.)

I also thought Lorelai's involvement in Rory and Dean's relationship, and her comment to Dean that they didn't have to "break up" just because he and Rory had, was all kinds of inappropriate. 

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22 hours ago, MatildaMoody said:

Dean got mad that Rory blew off their plans at the last minute, not because she was trying to help her chances of getting into Harvard. Dean was always supportive of Rory going to Harvard. He was very clear that if she didn't go, it wouldn't be because of him. Also, I never saw Dean being controlling of Rory the way many here seem to. So, I just don't get the dislike of him. Sure, ASP destroyed his character to make Jess more palatable, but I always saw Dean as being a caring and supportive boyfriend who was being treated poorly by the girl he thought liked him as much as he liked her. 

Jess, on the other hand, was just an absolute asshat. He comes into town being a total dick to everyone including his uncle. That scene when he just goes into Rory's room and starts pawing through her stuff and then has the nerve to get pissy because this girl he just met didn't want to climb out her window and sneak away from her home with him really sealed my dislike of him. And I know a lot of people try to use "Ah There's the Rub" as a justification for disliking Dean, but that episode just shows me how much of a creepy creepster Jess is. I mean he finds out Rory is going to be home alone, so he lies to her about Luke preparing her food in order to get invited in the house, and then he refuses to leave. She actually asks him why is he still there and first, he says something about a tip and then says that he will take some fries instead. And when Rory tells him to take as many fries as he wants, he sees that as an invitation. He even tells her that her offer of fries was "invitation-like". And then, the jackass has the nerve to get pissy and make fun of Rory for needing a chaperone when he finds out that Paris is there and Rory invites her to stay. Everything about his behavior was gross and inappropriate because 1. he knew Rory had a boyfriend, and 2. because lying to get into someone's home and refusing to leave is the ultimate in scumball behavior.

If we are using Rory's boyfriends as warnings for teenage girls, we should all remember how often Jess refused to abide by what Rory asked of him. She wanted him to leave he says that the fries were an invitation. He jumps on her sleigh during the Bracebridge dinner and refuses to get off it when she tells him to. He sees her going crazy because she can't find the bracelet Dean made for her, and he gaslights her by first holding on to it and then hiding it in her room and telling her to look for it again.  Everything about Jess should be a big honking red flag of what a girl should avoid in a relationship. But, instead, we are supposed to believe this nonsense is exciting and romantic.

I agree. Jess was a jackass who treated everyone like crap. Even when they started dating he treated Rory like crap. He didn't call, didn't follow through on plans, didn't want to go to the festival because he now had Rory and only did those things to get her, he only changes his mind when Rory goes with Dean and his sister, he lies to Rory about how he got his blackeye, even later after talking to Luke he still lies about how he got the blackeye. After that fight with Dean acts like a jackass to Luke who is ticked off about it and makes a remark about Dean who showed up at the guy's house to talk to the parents (you know the mature thing after doing something stupid). Lying to Luke about going to school and then insulting him about working in a diner even though he was the one who broke their deal.  But everything Dean does is a sign he's got anger issues and other things? We're suppose to think Jess is so cool or understand that he's a messed up kid. But not Dean who likes Rory and maybe even loves her who gets mad that another guy keeps hitting on his girlfriend? Oh no he's suppose to be completely cool about that. Who cares that some guy keeps messing with him and clearly wants his girlfriend. How dare he get mad when Jess out bids Dean for Rory's basket even though Jess admits he only did so to make Dean mad and get Rory alone. I'm also bugged that Rory didn't seem bothered by that. She started treating him like crap. Skipping school to go see Jess, getting annoyed by spending time with Dean, kissing Jess and running off, getting jealous of Shane, even though she was still with Dean. The only time I liked Jess was when he pointed that out to her. And she still doesn't break up with Dean. The dancethon she continues to get jealous of Shane while trying to I don't know make Jess jealous? She has the nerve to be surprised when Dean has had enough? Geez, Rory you only treated him like crap for the last year or so why are you so surprised that he's finally had enough? 

I hate Jess but also his arrival is when you start to see that Rory's a bad girlfriend and that never really changes. Her pattern of falling for someone while with someone else and not breaking up with her current boyfriend. Getting jealous when the boy she likes or boy she used to date starts dating someone else. Even when she finally gets with Jess. She spends most of that time talking about Dean. Dean would always call and make plans. Well Rory your not dating Dean your dating Jess. So either talk to Jess (to be fair I don't know what would have happened if she had. If Jess would have started making plans and calling more or if he'd blown it off) or accept this is a new and different relationship. She also somehow has no idea Jess isn't going to class. Even though she's with him all the time. She never asks about his classes?  She seems charmed by jerks. She didn't really care that Jess treated everyone like crap. She was charmed by his antics and later same with Logan. I know this isn't really the fault of Jess or Logan but I don't like what Rory is like when she's with them. 

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On 11/19/2018 at 9:46 AM, andromeda331 said:

I hate Jess but also his arrival is when you start to see that Rory's a bad girlfriend and that never really changes. Her pattern of falling for someone while with someone else and not breaking up with her current boyfriend. Getting jealous when the boy she likes or boy she used to date starts dating someone else. Even when she finally gets with Jess. She spends most of that time talking about Dean. Dean would always call and make plans. Well Rory your not dating Dean your dating Jess. So either talk to Jess (to be fair I don't know what would have happened if she had. If Jess would have started making plans and calling more or if he'd blown it off) or accept this is a new and different relationship. She also somehow has no idea Jess isn't going to class. Even though she's with him all the time. She never asks about his classes?  She seems charmed by jerks. She didn't really care that Jess treated everyone like crap. She was charmed by his antics and later same with Logan. I know this isn't really the fault of Jess or Logan but I don't like what Rory is like when she's with them. 

I totally agree with this. Rory with Jess was the end of the sweet girl who cared about other people. It was the demarcation between the girl who swore never to eat clams again in solidarity with Morty during the Cinnamon's Wake episode, and the girl who climbed a tree to convince the guy whose heart she dragged through the dirt not to hate her. She didn't knock on his window because she cared about him and felt bad about the way she treated him. She did it because she didn't like the idea of Dean (or anyone for that matter) disliking her. I liked that Dean called her out on that.

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We are drifting away from Season 2 again. Please make sure you’re posting in the correct thread. The reason is we need to keep the season topics “spoiler free” for people who are watching the show for the first time. 

Posts that reference events of later seasons will be removed. They can be reposted in the “All Seasons Discussion.”

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As many times as I have watched these episodes, I still can't remember Lorelai ever telling Max that the wedding was off. It seems like she just grabbed Rory up and off they went. I know she told Sookie but did she ever actually tell Max? Or did she just leave with no explanation?

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1 hour ago, peacheslatour said:

As many times as I have watched these episodes, I still can't remember Lorelai ever telling Max that the wedding was off. It seems like she just grabbed Rory up and off they went. I know she told Sookie but did she ever actually tell Max? Or did she just leave with no explanation?

We don't see it onscreen and they never specifically say, but I always got the impression Lorelai called Max and called things off before she headed into Rory's room and told her to start packing.

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11 minutes ago, Taryn74 said:

We don't see it onscreen and they never specifically say, but I always got the impression Lorelai called Max and called things off before she headed into Rory's room and told her to start packing.

Thanks. Boy, I sure hope so because the impression I got was she just ghosted and bounced which would be really shitty.

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22 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Thanks. Boy, I sure hope so because the impression I got was she just ghosted and bounced which would be really shitty.

Yeah.  Lorelai's a flake, but I really don't think she's THAT much of a flake.

At least not in S2.  (S6, I'm looking at you.)

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i'm on ep 9 but after recently watching 8, i have to say that lorelai is oen of my most disliked characters. perhaps this is because i was 3 when the series aired, and i know how fluid culture is and how it changes, but she was already a slightly annoying character in the first season. maybe characters like her was "in"; the smart quip backs, sassy personality etc. okay, i wouldn't know. but besides that slightly making her unappealing, her biggest flaw is her immaturity and lashing out at other people just because she doesn't feel okay. 

yes, i understand that a single mother who had a baby at 16 is completely normal to have some immature or childish aspects to her personality. heck it could be most of single parents' personalities. but i can't take it anymore. i let all these moments fly by in S1 because we are introduced into new characters and are getting to know them. but even halfway through the first season, lorelai was so grating to me i had halfway hoped she would face some character development. marriage, of course, could have done that to her. but, also of course, she backed out of it. no whether that was due to her immaturity or because the writers (smartly) didn't want such a huge thing happening to her so soon, idk. but the thing is, either way it makes sense. but now i am aching for something to be done to her character. she's such a pain. take away her adult relationships and she's basically the same as her daughter. and even then, her daughter acts more mature than her in some ways. it's tiring. 

P.S. rory had a birthday very early on in S1, and beforehand she was already said to be 16. but every single episode after that up to now, people including her mother are still saying she's 16. what kind of gigantic plothole is that? lol

Edited by Iju

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As far as saying Rory was 16 in the beginning of Season One (before her birthday), I think because it was so close to her birthday that she was already rounding up. Lots of kids do that. 

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I think the Rory being 16 at the beginning was because the writer's hadn't found their footing yet. They were still fleshing things out.

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