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S02.E02: Date Nights & Bright Lights


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I almost feel sorry for the editors, as they are forced to make interesting and compelling television out of a group of stunted adults trying to install a light fixture.  I guess there's only so much they could do with what they were given to work with, but it just went on sooooooo loooooooooooooong.  No wonder Bin looked semi-comatose.  Or maybe he always looks like that.

Edited by laurakaye
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Sorry, but Jessa was raised heavily in Pearl doctrine. They beat babies with plumbing line. The Pearl's teach ritualistic, terror-based abuse. Unless the cycle is broken, Spurgeon is in for beatings for not obeying his parent's every whim.

I just don't buy this. 

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I almost feel sorry for the editors, as they are forced to make interesting and compelling television out of a group of stunted adults trying to install a light fixture.  I guess there's only so much they could do with what they were given to work with, but it just went on sooooooo loooooooooooooong.  No wonder Bin looked semi-comatose.  Or maybe he always looks like that.

I preferred the episode with Benessa using a stapler to install a valance.

Aja, hate to ask but did Mechelle act surprised when she received the coupons? Though admittedly she does often look surprised. Drugged too maybe.

"Oh! I can put these in a drawer..."

Those poor editors. And production crew!!

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Sorry, just want to point out that not everyone who was beaten as a child beats their own kids. The cycle is sometimes broken. Do we know that Ben was raised the same way?

Yes. Jessica Seewald has mentioned that her parents didn't spare the rod, and she was a better person for it, blah blah blah...

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I just don't buy this.

Well facts are facts. Per their own books and (now scrubbed) website, they use the Pearl inspired blanket training to kill the curiosity in mobile infants.

The Duggars proudly advertised for Debi and Michael Pearl's books and websites... a book I may add that has been linked to the death of multiple children. The books and ideas perpetuated by these monsters takes take joy in the ritualistic child abuse and even goes as far as advising which kinds of instruments to use in order to be abuse children without breaking bones. It's sick and disgusting. The whole fundie network was in bed with the Pearl's; most notably the Jeubs (who are long time Duggar friends) who've hosted Debi and Michael in their home.

I've followed the Duggars and their brand of crazy since the beginning. Just because they packaged themselves in frumpers to be more palpable to a television audience doesn't make them any less culpable to systemic child abuse.

Edited by FakeJoshDuggar
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In case it was unclear, this is the episode topic for Jill and Jessa Counting On Date Nights & Bright Lights, not a discourse on child abuse. Bickering about it is worse. Let's get back to talking about what actually happened during the episode. Thanks.

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The family's going to South America... etc. If Jess and Jill, et el are wanting their own show because they miss the fame and money, so be it. They obviously convinced the network that they would be a good risk. However, I will be very annoyed, and drop TLC permanently, if I find their storylines are increasingly family-centric regarding MIchelle and JB. I do not want those parents on my television as all they did was lie and cover up. I don't mind storylines on Jill, Jessa, Jinger, and Jana, no matter how boring, but leave the King and Queen of fabrication at home. I don't want them anywhere near my television. Actually, I doubt I will follow "Counting On" because it is pretty dull, and the husbands are painfully dim-witted. My fave parts have been the babies - I love little ba-bas, however, Jana (believe it or not) catches my interest as well. I would watch a Jana only show, especially if it follows her moving out and going to college etc. As for the rest...? Pass...

 

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Yes. Jessica Seewald has mentioned that her parents didn't spare the rod, and she was a better person for it, blah blah blah...

Reading your post made me laugh out loud. How many times has a minor celebrity (or whoever) publicly announced that "they were strapped as children, and have clearly grown up fine"? Whenever a minor celeb says this I have to laugh, because it always seems that the people who loudly state that they received spankings are also the people I would never want to know in real life, and nor would I ever look to them as role models. I swear, some people are deluded by their own press, they don't realize that nobody cares about their experiences. They need to fade to black... lol Meanwhile, the people whom I would LOVE to hear from, and hear about their childhoods, are always the classy, sophisticated, ones who refuse to draw any attention to themselves. I guess that's the best response they can 'role model' to us.

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after her horrible time with the horribly named SPURGEON...

 

I was hoping the name would grow on me, but if anything, I cringe even more when I hear it. I have even tried to think of a way to shorten it into a cute nickname or...? Nothing. I keep drawing a blank. How could they do that to that poor boy. Thank goodness they homeschool, so he won't be tormented on a daily basis. Such a cute little boy ... how sad.

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My house is a disaster, but I do not have a million people staring at it each week on TV. I also deal with RA. If Jessa Blessa can't keep up a 1000-square foot home while Bin is "at work", they don't cook, and she has an infant who's probably still sleeping a lot of the time, she has no business having more children or "adopting".

I think it would have been beneficial if Michelle had created chore charts for ALL the kids to clean inside the house. I found the level of housekeeping decreased while Duggar's fame increased. Maybe Jessa was looking forward to marriage so that she wouldn't have to clean up after, or cook for 20+ people? Also, Ben used to spoil Jessa by doing everything for her while they were courting. She is so immature that I believe she figures Ben should continue to spoil and fuss over while all she needs to do is hold the baby and/or nurse him. The whole dynamic of their marriage is soon going to change, as Ben feels the honeymoon is over and he is trapped with a prima donna for a wife. Ben and Jess do not behave anywhere similiar to their behavior during courting.

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I wonder if they were ever taught how to keep a home clean and tidy? Young girls learn from their mothers' training and modeling of behaviors. With all wehave learned about Michelle and her detached relationships with her children, I have to believe that she never mentored her daughters in keeping house. 

Excellent points! I never saw Michelle house-cleaning, but she certainly could dole out chores for the kids to clean. And I always wanted to gag when Michelle would reason that the boys needed to learn how to work outside of the house, while the girls needed to worry about the inside of the house. I also found it revealing that Jana is quick to learn her own maintenance, carpentry, electrical, etc. as she didn't want to have to wait on Duggar time to have something fixed I also think Jana was sending out a plain and rebellious message that being female does not automatically make you useless outside the home.

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I found the bonus scene about Jessa's bangs mildly funny, however the humor is somewhat lost when coming from someone who sits on a couch repeatedly talking about themselves and is so caught up in her looks.

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On the bonus scene, Jana describes Bin to a tee. His youth, his lack of worldly experience, his poor work ethic, his lack of maturity; then she says that is what she DOES NOT WANT!!!

 

 

Excellent points! I never saw Michelle house-cleaning, but she certainly could dole out chores for the kids to clean. And I always wanted to gag when Michelle would reason that the boys needed to learn how to work outside of the house, while the girls needed to worry about the inside of the house. I also found it revealing that Jana is quick to learn her own maintenance, carpentry, electrical, etc. as she didn't want to have to wait on Duggar time to have something fixed I also think Jana was sending out a plain and rebellious message that being female does not automatically make you useless outside the home.

 

I didn't see 'em but I find these very encouraging as secondhand statements.  That means Jana has a good chance (better than I probably) of being equipped to go toe-to-toe with a reluctant apartment manager/superintendent, were she to strike out on her own in a rental.  The questions mine used to ask me, lol... some of 'em were even serious, as I now admit it was probably the building manager making the super act like a butt, but when I think about them... pass-the-buckism in the extreme.  "Do you think the mold on the ceiling was caused by the radiator?"  "What, you mean the radiator I told you just a couple months ago, can't muster any lustier outward-extruding air than a cartoon dragon when they tell us it's 99% out of air and fire?  Suuuuure.... it's extruding air 90 degrees vertical from some output I can't see."  She's had time to develop good taste and appears to have used some of it wisely.

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Excellent points! I never saw Michelle house-cleaning, but she certainly could dole out chores for the kids to clean. And I always wanted to gag when Michelle would reason that the boys needed to learn how to work outside of the house, while the girls needed to worry about the inside of the house. I also found it revealing that Jana is quick to learn her own maintenance, carpentry, electrical, etc. as she didn't want to have to wait on Duggar time to have something fixed I also think Jana was sending out a plain and rebellious message that being female does not automatically make you useless outside the home.

It makes me so very sad that she even has to send this message in the first place.

 

And it begs the oft-asked question - if the girls' places are in the home cooking and cleaning, why can none of them cook?  And why don't they know how to maintain a clean home?  What were they being taught all those years, under that roof with JChelle?  Did she simply try to impart her wisdom onto the first couple of girls and hope the lessons would trickle down through osmosis?  Did she even TRY to give her girls anything worthy to take with them when they grew up and left home?  If not, that's neglect, plain and simple.

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In the U.S. (and most other countries) you cannot pay for a child to adopt, because that is considered human trafficking, which is illegal.  What you can do is connect with a pregnant woman who wants to have her baby adopted and pay for her living expenses during pregnancy and her medical bills for prenatal care and delivery.  You can also pay legal fees to an attorney for making the arrangements and finalizing the adoption through the court system.  Nothing more can be paid.  Costs for this type of private adoption are $10,000 - $20,000.   Adoptions through government agencies cost just a few hundred dollars.

 

International adoptions have been curtailed due to the adoption of the Hague Adoption Convention by many countries: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hague_Adoption_Convention

 

Adoptions of Russian children by U.S. citizens were temporarily suspended and the U.S. no longer allows adoptions from Guatemala, etc.  In Guatemala, for instance, it was found that many children were actually kidnapped from their parents and sold to foreigners by private adoption agencies.

 

The criteria for adoptive parents can be much more strict for international adoptions than for domestic (U.S.) adoptions.

Can't argue with this, but car theft is also illegal and it happens daily.  There are ways to hide money changing hands, and unless one of the parties is VERY dissatisfied, no one would be the wiser.  IF they adopt I'm betting on a private adoption.

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So Joy needs glasses because she can no longer read road signs...so Joy then drives herself and a younger siblings to get said glasses...anyone else see the issue with this?


It makes me so very sad that she even has to send this message in the first place.

 

And it begs the oft-asked question - if the girls' places are in the home cooking and cleaning, why can none of them cook?  And why don't they know how to maintain a clean home?  What were they being taught all those years, under that roof with JChelle?  Did she simply try to impart her wisdom onto the first couple of girls and hope the lessons would trickle down through osmosis?  Did she even TRY to give her girls anything worthy to take with them when they grew up and left home?  If not, that's neglect, plain and simple.

Meh, I grew up with a mother who would have rather done it herself than let a kid do it. She was just that OCD about how she cleaned, what she cleaned with, when things got cleaned...etc, etc. Outside of laundry and my own bedroom, I had zero chores that involved cooking or cleaning. The first time I tried to use a vacuum I had to call my husband to ask how to turn it on. That said, you pick it up eventually and teach yourself or buy a few cook books and make it happen. The difference is that Jessa is just lazy and if she doesn't have to do it, why should she? I wouldn't call it neglect---neglect can definitely be used about JChell's parenting, but not teaching them how to cook or clean isn't really an area I'd throw it around. 

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I guess that was too strong word to use, but at the same time, if Michelle is raising her daughters to be only homemakers and then not teaching them how to go about doing it (even if most of it is common sense), then she is setting them up to fail.  I don't understand that mindset.  Or maybe I'm way off and she did teach them, and they truly are all just lazy.  I get it with Jessa (too pretty to work), but Jill does not seem like much of a housekeeper, either.  And from what I've seen, the Duggar girls admit to not being great in the kitchen, or around the house.  Not that this should mean one single thing in the real world - a messy house is to be expected when a woman becomes a new mom and is trying to figure everything out, and the hubby should be pitching in as well.  From the snippets I've seen - cooking dinner with 14 pounds of butter, dust alligators under the bed, kitchen counters covered in crap - maybe they just don't really care?  And that is strange in itself, because they were raised to be homemakers, and likely were never told that they could actually go out in the world and be anything they wanted to be.

 

And I had a similar mother growing up.  I rarely cleaned, because she did it herself and didn't think anyone else could do it as good as she.  I am now a mom and have the same tendencies when it comes to cleaning.  But I did figure it out.  And I didn't have a mom who groomed me to keep sweet and keep the kitchen floors gleaming.:)

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These days anyone can learn to clean off Youtube.  Our new house has a glass shower stall and I watched some youtube videos to see the best way to clean it.  I just bought a steam floor mop and again Youtube provided cleaning tips for the best way to use it.

 

I do feel bad for Ben.  Next to the bed I saw some kind of appliance--maybe a room humidifier.  I imagine his allergies are even worse since he married and sleeps in such a dust bin.  If he had any kind of sense, he would see to it that his bedroom was clean and his bedding properly washed.  I have a feeling his mother Guinn kept a clean house.

Edited by riverblue22
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Well, as my mom would say, there are no hooks in his butt. If Jessa can't or won't clean the house to a proper standard, then I guess Ben needs to. Of course I guess he will be consigned to hell for doing Women's Work but at least he will be able to breathe during his earthly sojourn.

Really, I would like to know if he actually has a job outside the home. If not, grab the vacuum, Ben. That is, if you're not too busy sublimating your rage by finding mean and nasty Bible verses to throw in people's faces. Oh, and practicing your DJ Jazzy Jeff moves in front of the mirror.

Edited by Tabbygirl521
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I felt physically sick when I saw JimBob coming down the escalator at the airport. He was returning from El Salvador with the missioncationers and the rest of the family were holding up the stupid welcome home signs. JimBob's stupid grin, coming down the escalator, said, "I AM BACK ON TV"!!! I do not want to see him.

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Just watched this episode over the weekend, and even though I am behind I needed to comment. First, what is with the overuse of the word "projects"? Second, what was with trying to build drama by continuously announcing that the family had left the states to go somewhere "dangerous." We all know the trip is over and done with safely because if something had happened we would have heard about it in real time. The over dependence on catch phrases is stupid.

 

Third, who thinks an audience wants to watch can lights being installed?  I would rather watch Jessa and Bin try and clean up their pig sty.  And what a mess that is! A lot of that is immaturity in the sense that they have always had someone else to back them up living at home but gosh, why didn't the TLC editors hire an organizer, or a domestic consultant for Spurg's parents?  That would be little more interesting seeing them being forced to whip their lives into shape.  Jessa and Bin can't cook?  Get someone in there and force them to learn how to be domestic.  

 

These shows are not going to make it and Jill and Jessa are going to be up a creek when the money dries up.  I predict the end result will be the siblings fighting each other off in their rush to a publisher to spill the details on what life was really life.  Whoever gets there first will get the money. I hope Jana gets there first.  i am only a casual watcher so I didn't realize she was 26. That is so sad.

 

I also did not realize that Jessa and Bin live in a home with a lovely view of the expressway. What a dump.

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Sorry if this has already been addressed, but does anyone know why the Duggars repeatedly say "Central America" instead of the specific country? If it was once or twice I wouldn't think much of it, but it's so often that it must be on purpose. Anna was the only one to mention El Salvador by name, which made it sound like she hadn't been coached on the official "Central America" rhetoric.

 

I liked Jana's green shirt. It really brought out her eye color! And I liked seeing her hair straight. It seemed like she meant it when she talked about how she enjoys problem-solving. Too bad she's not putting that to use outside of being "in charge" on a recessed lighting project.

 

Also Jenny totally kills it every time she's in front of the camera. She gives so few fucks. I would watch a Jenny spin-off. And James too, have we seen him yet this season?

 

edit to add that I also got really sick of the "danger and violence!" talk. Yeah, certain parts of Central America can be dangerous. Do some research, decide how much risk you're willing to take, and then shut up about it already! I also hate the idea that your life is automatically in danger every time you leave the US. No. Plenty of places as safe, if not safer, than the United States. Even in Latin America. I wouldn't expect anything less from the Duggars, but still. gahhhhhh

Edited by crouton
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Crouton, they're claiming it's for security reasons. Central America is so super duper dangerous that Jilly Muffin's and Triple D's safety could be compromised if gang members found out where they lived. Never mind that they've posted several pictures in front of well known tourist landmarks on their social media. Or the fact that sandy-haired, pasty white people stick out like a sore thumb in these countries no matter what. But, it's all for Jay-sus. Now send donations before somebody dies!

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Crouton, they're claiming it's for security reasons. Central America is so super duper dangerous that Jilly Muffin's and Triple D's safety could be compromised if gang members found out where they lived. Never mind that they've posted several pictures in front of well known tourist landmarks on their social media. Or the fact that sandy-haired, pasty white people stick out like a sore thumb in these countries no matter what. But, it's all for Jay-sus. Now send donations before somebody dies!

I think they have such an inflated sense of importance that they're worried vacationing fans would try to track them down if they got into specifics. That's why Josh and Anna were always referred to as living in Washington, DC, when in reality they were living in Maryland. (And eventually their address -- complete with mirror windows -- became public knowledge.)

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