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S05.E06: Going For Baroque

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It's apparent that this group of designers is officially out of ideas. You would think that the designers would go into the show with a bunch of interesting ideas that would fit an array of challenges but nope, these guys got nothing.

I agree, but how does one go into the competition with an idea for a "modern, fresh, young, hip" baroque dress?

I also fail see how baroque and "modern, fresh, young, and hip" can even be accomplished. Can anyone here Google me a proper picture of a truly "modern, fresh, young, hip" baroque dress for reference? Is it even possible?

Can I also say just how sick I am of hearing them harp on about how "modern, fresh, young, and hip" everything is or isn't.

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"No, that's actually her accent."  Or something.  Um... OK?  I don't know what American-born accent is that removes Rs, but okay.

I've no idea where Alyssa grew up (nor do I care) but it's entirely possible that she has the remnants of a regional accent. My own grandfather grew up in Newark, NJ in the early 1900's and always added an R to certain words; warsh your hands, squarsh that bug and so on. He was perfectly literate and articulate, it was a life long hang over from his childhood and the neighborhood he was raised in. He also had the slightest Irish lilt from his father who'd come over from the Old Sod.

 

Just saying but I don't find regional accents offensive; they're often charming.

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Dom's gold dress looked like something that empress in The Neverending Story would wear. Maybe the headband was influencing my opinion though.

 

That was the first thing I thought, too. I figured it was too obscure a reference for anyone else to get, but I guess not.

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But that's adding an R, not removing it but keeping other Rs.  And I'm talking about one word only.  I never said that I found regional accents offensive.  I am just extremely glad that I am not the only one who doesn't understand why she says Foeward, and why year after year of seeing it on camera no one has corrected this.

 

Alyssa Milano grew up in Brooklyn in the early 1970's.  

Edited by Ms Blue Jay

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Now everyone's jumping on hating Alyssa for saying "foe-ward".  I brought that up last year, because it drives me batty also, and someone here corrected me by saying something like "No, that's actually her accent."  Or something.  Um... OK?  I don't know what American-born accent is that removes Rs, but okay.  Unless you're a toddler.  Or have a speech impediment.  Someone explain.  Because she seems to say Rs in any other situation that calls for them.  Like the "Ward" part of Forward.  It's just straight-up incorrect pronunciation.

*Waves from Massachusetts, where Rs are both optional and random.*

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*Waves from Massachusetts, where Rs are both optional and random.*

 

You tell 'em, Ahchery!

Edited by millennium
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 Ugh. I don't want Sam seen as a victim! But how can that be helped with the quality of human beings sniping at him?

 

I don't know.   I've been watching from episode 1 and Sam comes off as nothing but a bitchy, smug asshole -- and I never saw Under the Gunn, either.   At this point, I can't envision anything that would elicit sympathy for him.

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How would Alyssa have any kind of real accent left after working in television for 40 years or so?  Maybe she speaks how she was trained to on Who's the Boss? back in the day.  

 

On a completely different note- did the runway music seem especially obnoxious to anyone else last night?  I don't know what was up, usually I find it inoffensive or kinda neat.  Last night it was just...it felt like a lot that wasn't harmonious.  It couldn't have been different, though, right?

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*Waves from Massachusetts, where Rs are both optional and random.*

Also large chunks of the South. I had a professor from Louisiana and one from Massachusetts who pronounced words with R's very similarly.

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Thank you to those posters that pointed out how decidedly non-Baroque all of those dresses were.  Its been some years since my art history and fashion history classes but I saw nothing baroque in any of those designs.  I missed the first couple of minutes so I was wondering why they were at Medieval Times for this challenge.  Wouldn't the Metropolitan Museum of Art have been a better fit?  Where there are signs that would tell them what the baroque period was.  For that matter they should have brought the judges to the Met so that they would actually know what baroque meant.  While they were at mood I kept wondering why Sam was so set on "fabric like the Sistine Chapel."  The Sistine Chapel was built in the 1400's and Michelangelo is definitely a Renaissance artist, not baroque.

 I thought it was decidedly strange to use Medieval TImes for a baroque inspiration. If they wanted to used Medieval Times for the financial sponsorship (or whatever they were getting out of it), why not ask the designers to use it as inspiration for royal medieval look (no monk sackcloth, please).No wonder the results were confusing. 

 

That "fabric like the Sistine Chapel" didn't make much sense, since what people tend to associate with the Sistine Chapel is rather beefy figures loosely draped in togas, so how does that translate into a fabric?

 

From the editing, and from the setup from last week, I was fully expecting Sam to be named a top designer and either Mitchell or Alexander lose it during runway judging.

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They definitely had to pry that in. The medieval guy made his speech and then Alyssa said that the medieval period led to the baroque period, so... Which, arguably? But they could have held the opening in the Museum of Natural History and said that the cretaceous period did.

 

I'm pretty convinced that Sam is just an ignorant and unimaginative young man who drew an absolute blank about what baroque meant, except for old (like the Sistine Chapel!), and that he was inviting the associate at Mood to figure out something appropriate. The associate, who has presumably spent enough years selling to Parsons students to recognize someone who didn't do the reading, understandably bowed out.

Edited by Julia
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I don't know.   I've been watching from episode 1 and Sam comes off as nothing but a bitchy, smug asshole -- and I never saw Under the Gunn, either.   At this point, I can't envision anything that would elicit sympathy for him.

If someone hadn't seen the first episode or two and only saw the ones following, they'd see a massive gang-up, with tons of cheap shots, relentlessly executed, and if we're being fair a ton of exaggeration (for example the eye rollingly silly idea that one of the other designers spending 5 minutes or so commenting on his dress means THEY designed it and not Sam).

In totality this is negated a lot by what a braggart he was early on, and by the fact that ideally we'd all like to think that giving credit to others is a nice thing to do and he's a dick for not doing so. And it's also colored by the fact that he's gotten wins and lauds for stuff that puzzlingly to us at home doesn't seem to look half as worthy as the judges seem to be saying it does to them. So of course we're outraged.

But if someone just walked in and just saw the episode, heck maybe even if they only half paid attention to the early episodes, or didn't start watching until Ep 3 or 4, all they'd really see is really bitchy people like Ken, Layana, Mitchell and this ugly, petty seeming version of Kini being relentless and small.

It just puzzles me, that's all. That they'd assume they're going to come off as the heroes in the edit is achingly stupid of these supposed TV veterans. If they are, it's only among the people who have been paying attention to Sam's stank from the beginning. In other words, people on boards like this, and probably not most of the rest of America, who are going to see the more recent talking heads where Sam seems to be talking about rising above and not stooping to their level, intermixed with an edit where they cut back to the gang going at him again and again with increasingly cheap shots.

Edited by Kromm
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Grew up 20 miles outside NYC in NJ and thought forward was spelled foward until I went to college.  Mind you, I am well-educated (as hard as that may be to believe), but it's because that is how we pronounced it, sans 'r'.  

 

As far as the episode, I didn't think any of the designs really met the challenge.  Also, I think Alyssa looked so much better this episode, but I've been thinking, perhaps she just looks better in more casual type clothes than the wardrobe they use for the show.

Edited by Amsterdamker
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As far as the episode, I didn't think any of the designs really met the challenge.  Also, I think Alyssa looked so much better this episode, but I've been thinking, perhaps she just looks better in more casual type clothes than the wardrobe they use for the show.

It's certainly what she favors with her own fashion business.

http://i.imgur.com/XwS334i.jpg http://i.imgur.com/LI5Yb6O.jpg http://i.imgur.com/9S63m7X.jpg

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Well, it was just a couple weeks ago that Sam went all supervillain and vowed to take them out one by one, but politely.   And then there's that  nonsense of batting his eyelashes at the judges while he's on the runway -- I don't think that earns him any points with the audience because it looks like he's trying to schmooze his way to a win rather than earning it with his skill. 

 

His characteristic move -- asking for advice as a way to get someone else to do the heavy lifting for him -- reminds me of the Pakleds from Star Trek.   The Pakleds had limited intellectual and mechanical skills but they still wanted to go zipping around the universe in spaceships.  So they would ask passing ships for assistance, then kidnap and enslave any Good Samaritans who stopped to help, thus ensuring they'd always have someone on hand to do the difficult stuff for them.

 

The guy's a weasel.  I think it comes through loud and clear, whether you watch all the episodes or just one.

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If someone hadn't seen the first episode or two and only saw the ones following, they'd see a massive gang-up, with tons of cheap shots, relentlessly executed, and if we're being fair a ton of exaggeration (for example the eye rollingly silly idea that one of the other designers spending 5 minutes or so commenting on his dress means THEY designed it and not Sam).

WADR, I don't see that at all. Sam clearly had no idea what to design, he acknowledged that, and one of his fellow designers was kind enough to give him an escape hatch. Which he grabbed, but when he tried to put his own stamp on it, Dom talked him out of his inspirations because they were stupid. Which led to Sam showing something which not only did not show any inspiration of his own, but a garment which had he followed his own inspiration would clearly have led to him being sent home. And then he pretended it was something which involved thought.

 

I admit that Sam's beating people up on the internets success strategy sickens me, so I'm not objective, but I don't see how even more sympathetic viewers could find him more impressive.

Edited by Julia
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I had to ask Siri what Baroque meant since I missed the first part of the show. I still don't understand what the judges were looking for. Not costumey, but couture. Oooookay...

So I guess Ken deserved the win then. I liked Alexander's dress but the judges didn't like it.

And how was Kini safe? The bottom of his dress looked like an upside down umbrella that was in that one season where they had to do a runway show in the rain.

I was glad Mitchell finally got the boot. Does Sam ever do anything without getting advice or help from the other designers? When the judges praise his design the other designers who help him shouldn't be rolling their eyes.

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I couldn't believe Kini's dress wasn't on the bottom.  I'm watching it go down the runway and I'm screaming at the TV, it looks like she stepped into a damn umbrella!  Worse than his umbrella dresses from his season because the cut and the proportions here didn't make any sense.  I guess we should be glad at least he didn't make it out of denim.

 

I wish they had been sent to the library like they recently did on Top Chef; the cheftestants did their own research into the period of food they were supposed to cook.

 

If we didn't know Ken from his season, I doubt most of us would hate him.  He's really toned it way down from the obnoxiousness we remember.  Wonder how long the producers will let that continue, as I'm sure they brought him back just to stir shit.

 

Sam...feh.  They should have brought back Oscar.  Or Natalya.

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From the pictures, all the designs look like they needed more. More of what, I'm not sure, but more if they were going to be remotely baroque or even reminiscent of baroque.

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I've always fast-forwarded through the hair and makeup segments, but with this version, I find I'm fast-forwarding through Zanna's walk-through.  She's so stupid!!  I could imagine, if I was on the first year's series, I'd probably listen to her, but after several years, I can't imagine any of these designers could actually take her "advice/mentoring" seriously.  Unless it's some form of Stockholm game show syndrome.  

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On the subject of Ken...yes, he's produced some decent stuff but I have to ask how someone who never won once during his history with the show is considered to be an "All-Star".

 

Thank you.  i gag a little every time they refer to themselves, or they are referred to, as "all stars".  Wouldn't an all star team be made up of previous PR winners (minus Miss Plus Size who was handed the prize last season) and not just a bunch pf random past contestants who either had time on their hands or who would do anything for more TV time?

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In this case "All-Star" just means, has been on the franchise before.  Or even the bastard version of the franchise that most people pretend never happened and thought we'd never have to hear of again.

 

I actually remember REALLY liking a contestant named "Shan" from Under the Gunn.  His aesthetic was so different, cool, modern... Plus his name is "Shan" which is so cute and his personality was subdued and great. Yet of course they bring back Sam and Asha!

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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A roommate of mine in college said "FOE-ward" and she was neither a toddler nor had a speech impediment. She was from Jersey.

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Um, judges? The bottom of that dress was not Brown, it was like wine red or something. That's embarrassing.

 

I'm glad I wasn't alone in seeing that dress as wine red. Where in the hell were they getting that it was brown? They're part of the fashion industry and can't differentiate between colors?

 

Also, Judges, please send home Sam as he can't seem to create anything without outside step-by-step advice or someone actually making the garment for him.

 

Kini- I like you, but quit recreating outfits from your season.

Edited by Surrealist
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Alyssa Milano grew up in Brooklyn in the early 1970's

 

I grew up in Brooklyn about a decade ahead of Alyssa, and my default is "foe-ward". Pronouncing that first "r" sounds incredibly harsh to my ear.

 

Edited to add that Webster has "foe-ward" as an acceptable (albeit secondary) pronunciation.

Edited by designing1
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Someone I knew who was born and raised in California said not only foe-ward but also pellow (instead of pillow) and baig (instead of bag). No idea what the reason was, but I always wondered why.

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I'm glad I wasn't alone in seeing that dress as wine red. Where in the hell were they getting that it was brown? They're part of the fashion industry and can't differentiate between colors?

 

Also, Judges, please send home Sam as he can't seem to create anything without outside step-by-step advice or someone actually making the garment for him.

 

Kini- I like you, but quit recreating outfits from your season.

Ditto on the brown vs. red. But one designer did mention that s/he really didn't like the brown fabric and would have never chosen it. Odd.

Kind of bogus challenge to have such a fine prize for winning. Good for Ken.

Were the judges supposed to look baroque? 'Cuz that model's outfit looked, to me, like pajamas made from draperies.

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In this case "All-Star" just means, has been on the franchise before.  Or even the bastard version of the franchise that most people pretend never happened and thought we'd never have to hear of again.

 

I actually remember REALLY liking a contestant named "Shan" from Under the Gunn.  His aesthetic was so different, cool, modern... Plus his name is "Shan" which is so cute and his personality was subdued and great. Yet of course they bring back Sam and Asha!

Shan and Oscar were definitely the talented ones on UTG, but as they made Tim and Zanna's stanning for Sam, Asha and Mondo look kinda stupid, I'm pretty sure they'd be vetoed.

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Every time I read the topic/episode title I see "Going for Barbeque." Which has about as much to with their designs as baroque.

I'd generally agree that a 5 minute consultation does not equal designing the dress, but he was going to line the dress with muslin which would have defeated everything the judges seemed to like about the dress - it was light, it was airy, etc. Dom gave him the key to making that dress successful.

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Ditto on the brown vs. red. But one designer did mention that s/he really didn't like the brown fabric and would have never chosen it. Odd.

Kind of bogus challenge to have such a fine prize for winning. Good for Ken.

Were the judges supposed to look baroque? 'Cuz that model's outfit looked, to me, like pajamas made from draperies.

 

I thought that comment was strange. It looked wine red. I even stood in front of my TV screen to get a closer look, but I swear I didn't see the fabric as brown. Either it's my TV or my eyes. Lol.

 

I agree about the challenge. I did a double take when Alyssa took them to Medieval Times to get inspiration for that challenge. Really?

 

Coca Rocha rocks strange outfits on occasion, but that woman can bend herself into all sorts of shapes. She's one of the posing queens.

 

 

Shan and Oscar were definitely the talented ones on UTG

 

I loved those two.

Edited by Surrealist
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My mysterious loyalty to this show (and to the mother ship) is being rewarded with increasingly boring episodes. How much longer will I hang on before I give up entirely? Why am I so optimistic? Who invented liquid soap, and why?

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I guess the apocalypse is here - I've started rooting for Ken.

Sam started the season telling Mitchell that he should develop a thicker skin if he wanted to survive in the fashion industry. Seems like he should try doing that himself. It's a littler harder being on the receiving end rather than the dishing out end.

One thing they haven't shown much of this season are who is rooming with who. But now they are down to 4 guys (Kini, Sam, Ken, Alexander) so they will all be in close proximity 24/7.

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Ha! Jersey native, right outside NYC and I haven't lived there in years but I still say foe-ward.

 

If they were going to have any designers from the abomination that was Under the Gunn then YTF couldn't they have had Oliver, Shan or Natalia? Likeable people, good designers and Natalia was treated horribly unfairly (to the point of bullying, by Asha, IIRC) and she deserves a second chance I think. I still bristle over her having been robbed in the steampunk challenge.

 

Sam you have made me root for Ken of all people to win a challenge and that is not okay. You're dead to me. That dress was aight but the wickety-wack faux pearl trim was eleventy kinds of wrong.

 

I loved Kini as a designer on his season but damn, son, stop making the umbrella skirt, it was only fabulous that first time. His dress this week was hideous.

 

Dom should have won that challenge, her look killed.  

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I don't know how the designers are supposed to figure out what to make for these challenges, when whoever creates the challenges has no idea what they're doing. They just throw out a couple of catchphrases and expect miracles. And by catchphrases I mean a couple of random words strung together without regard for logic. Most of the outfits looked like entries for a Futuristic Sci-Fi challenge, not remotely Baroque.

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That was some ugly shit that the female judges, other than Alyssa, were wearing. The once beautiful Georgina had on something that looked like random lace had been sewn onto random lace....kind of what was left in the scrap pile. If the designers had made the drapery pajamas that Coco had on, they'd be laughed off the show. And I never could figure out what that third judge had on. I know these people are millions of times richer than I could ever dream of being, but I have difficulty holding their opinions in high regard when looking at the crap they put on. I'll take Alexander's Breakfast at Tiffany's dress over their attire any day.

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All I got from this episode, is that if baroque is a trend, it should probably not be.  Whatever it is, it will probably end up in the back of the closet, and you'll run across it one day and wonder what you were thinking.

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In the pictures on the Lifetime website, as I see it on my monitor, the fabric in Layana's skirt looks brown. But it could be my monitor. But in the photo on this website, it looks more red. I don't know. What I do know is that when I saw the photo here first, I thought the skirt was much fuller and had layers of something underneath it poofing it out. I was disappointed to see it didn't. I would like it much better (as a baroque-inspired design) if it lots of tulle or some kind of petticoat thing underneath it, making it almost too much (or possibly just too much).

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Kini, I'm usually rooting for you and thought you were robbed of the win in your season.  However, please do NOT do any more umbrella skirts.  It was a great effect in the "rainway" challenge.  Doing it for the medieval times...er..."baroque" challenge, makes it look like you've run out of ideas.  Umbrella skirts should never be a "signature style".  Get back to being the happy, creative Kini we loved.  I think the Sam drama has kind of put a damper on Kini's usually casual attitude.  I don't blame him though.  Sam completely stole the credit for the outfit Kini completed when Alyssa was, yet again, fawning over him.

 

Speaking of Alyssa, could it be any more obvious that Sam is her favorite?  Her voice goes up an octave when she says "Hi, Sam!" and her facial demeanor completely displays her favoritism.

 

I stopped watching PR for a few seasons, so I missed Ken's original season.  I did see the edited clips of his outbursts before PRAS started, so I was prepared for him to have another blow up and exit fairly quickly.  I've been surprised to find how much I like him so far.  Of course, I think that means we're being set up for a blow out.  I'm guessing it will have to do with Sam....

 

If one more designer helps out Sam again, all I can say is that they must be gluttons for punishment.  Why would you continue giving a spoiled brat help when he takes all the credit?  He's a catty, petty person (at least, that's how he appears on TV and on his blog).  Stop feeding the monster and he'll do himself in!

 

I was really hoping when they said "baroque" that Alexander would have a shining moment here. I think he was so worried about being critiqued for "costume-y" that he scaled it back too far.  This would have been the challenge for him to let loose a little with his costume design background.

 

I liked the idea Leyana had, but she just ran out of time and fabric.  Also, if the underskirt had been black instead of brown or wine (looked wine colored on my TV), I think it would have been more pleasing to the eye.  The skirt just didn't look like it belonged with the top of the garment.  But she certainly went down the baroque path, unlike most of the other designers.

 

Valerie's design was renaissance, not baroque.  I kept waiting for fairy godmother to appear to turn it into a baroque gown :)

 

Not sad to see Mitchell leave.  He should have been gone much earlier.  I am glad I got to see a decent design from him with the previous challenge.  I think he should give menswear a shot when he gets home.  He had a much better (and edited!) eye with the menswear he designed.

 

I really liked Dom's look, but it wasn't baroque.  Someone mentioned up-thread that it looked like something the empress in "Never Ending Story" would wear.  That was my exact thought when I saw it!  It was certainly a beautiful garment, but not baroque.  I do like Dom and I'm hoping that since she's been the victim of Sam's "help me, but I'll totally take credit for it" tactics that she'll just quietly stick to what she needs to do.

 

There are some designers out there who feel models are simply "walking clothes hangers" for their garments.  I wonder how much it irritated them that Coco Rocha was a guest judge?  Hehehe :)

 

Do you think with the multiple saves that a double-elimination is going to happen right before the cut to the top 3 (or 4)?

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Emily's model is awful.  She hustled straight in and out from the wings and accentuated her one frozen pause at the end of the runway with big spooked eyes and a nervous gulp.  What's Aub up to these days?

 

Zanna's so awful, it's become hilarious.  Every week, her advice invariably translates to nothing.  "Do better."  "Try harder."  "More modern."

 

Kini's design was AWFUL.  I agreed with ElectricBoogaloo that he did a cheongsam--and not even a good one.  It looked like he glued doily cutouts onto red satin, topping off a WTF umbrella skirt.  Sending him away as a "middle" and effectively calling that thing equivalent to Dom's makes me think the judges are, yes, awful.

 

This show sucks.

 

*****************

I was rooting for Sam to win because it amuses me to imagine that little spliff sitting down with Georgina and partner to design something for Marchesa Notte.  Rotflmao.  Let's start with some Sistine Chapel fabric . . .

 

 

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As much as I would have hated for his ego to get any more inflated with another win, ITA that it would have been hilarious for Georgina and her partner to deal with Sam designing an entire dress with them!

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I was pretty sure they wouldn't give the win to Sam for exactly that reason. Which is quite a statement, coming from a business which gave Asha an internship.

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As much as I would have hated for his ego to get any more inflated with another win, ITA that it would have been hilarious for Georgina and her partner to deal with Sam designing an entire dress with them!

 

And then they'd be furious because he'd post all over the interwebs that he created the entire look himself :p

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Ok, having looked over a couple of photos I think the wine red/brown thing was a lighting issue. The photo where it looks almost brown is definitely a shade or two darker...Aaand I am way over thinking this, lol.

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LOL...I have to wonder if Sam is flirting with the producers/editors and believes that they are giving him a favorable edit, so that they will make it look like he is actually doing all this work.  If so, I bet he is shocked his flirting hasn't had the desired effect.

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I think he got tripped up, by trying to make it not look too costume like, but Baroque is by definition heavy, rich, and extravagant.

I always think of Baroque as very symmetrical, also, and when Austrians tell you about the difference between Baroque and its successor, Rococo, they emphasize that the off-balance quality is what distinguishes Rococo.  I remember being told that a whole lot one summer in Vienna. I don't know as much about fashion as about architecture, but the lack of symmetry in Sam's piece screamed out at me, not to mention the lack of heavy, rich extravagance.  

 

And, it's probably been said above, but I don't think the judges had much more than a vague idea what Baroque meant, anyway.  Dumb challenge.  I guess they needed a twist on couture, and MT wanted to get a feature spot.... sigh.

Edited by Calamity Jane
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And, it's probably been said above, but I don't think the judges had much more than a vague idea what Baroque meant, anyway.  Dumb challenge.  I guess they needed a twist on couture, and MT wanted to get a feature spot.... sigh.

 

 

I guess we should count ourselves lucky that the challenge was not do a modern take on Baroque inspired by a flavor of yogurt or french fries from your neighborhood fast food chain.

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