The Duggars: In the Media and TLC

[SMama]

That tweet proves your assessment @Mollie.  As a survivor of sexual abuse, I would never contemplate telling victims to be quiet. I also do not participate in a so called reality show, and would not do a televised interview to minimize what happened. All four are adults, they are able to say no more TV exposure. Instead they decide to go along on a cash grab. The fuck they are doing this for those abused. 

[andromeda331]

7 minutes ago, Mollie said:

They didn't.  Jill and Jessa outed themselves, and now Jinger and Joy have, too.  Jill is never going to hold up under cross-examination if this case goes to trial.   

I really don't see any of them holding up under cross-examination. They only know how to say everything Daddy tells them to say and that's not going to help them. They've also always been able to delete comments and questions they don't like and control all of the questions they get asked in interviews. They won't be able to control the questions this time.

[Churchhoney]

11 minutes ago, SMama said:

That tweet proves your assessment @Mollie.  As a survivor of sexual abuse, I would never contemplate telling victims to be quiet. I also do not participate in a so called reality show, and would not do a televised interview to minimize what happened. All four are adults, they are able to say no more TV exposure. Instead they decide to go along on a cash grab. The fuck they are doing this for those abused. 

This all just takes me back home, to seeing people go along with horribly ill-advised crap that would only harm them. And knowing that they weren't even doing it because of a cash grab or anything that would benefit them but just because they were zombified mental midgets when it came to their brainwashers. And wanting to shake them till their eyes popped out to make them not to do it. And being able to really do nothing but scream, You don't have to go along with this! You know you really don't want to! It's going to make things worse for you! Stop stop stop stop stop! 

And having nobody listen. 

I only hope somebody, anybody, blinks and this never goes to trial. I expect that is what will happen. But if it doesn't. Ugh. Of course I don't want Jim Bob to get his damn money either. I'm against anything that rewards his venal crap and encourages him to do more of it. Because I'm 99.99999999 percent sure that he does absolutely nothing for a virtuous reason. And that he does everything without caring one mite about how it might harm other people, very much including his own children. No matter what his lawyers write up in a lawsuit. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Churchhoney

[Oldernowiser]

The sum total of the family's comments about the molestation is that it's not a big deal unless people find out about it.

So...is THAT a good message for other victims?

[ChocolateAddict]

Here's the thing though.  Jill and Jessa stood up in front of the national media and said our parents dealt with the issue correctly.  They outright said that avoiding the police, avoiding CPS and avoiding actual counselling was the correct way to deal with an issue of child sexual assault.  They cannot in any way, shape or form then say that they are representing the rights of victims when they have directly validated the way that their parents responded to their abuse. 

You cannot hold up Michelle and Jim Bob's response to the issue which was based around protecting the offender and refusing justice for the victims and then claim that you are striving for better support for future victims.  Those messages are contradictory.  

As much as the Duggar girls don't like it, the report was released legally (as far as I can tell).  Was it immoral?  Maybe.  But as I understand, the court is not there to rule on if releasing a redacted report was ethically right.  All identifiable information was redacted, InTouch were betting on the public being able to put 2 + 2 together but neither they, nor the police, released names until Jessa and Jill identified themselves.  

I feel sorry for the girls in that no child should ever be touched against their will.  No child should ever have to be afraid in their own home.  But unfortunately, most of that good will was lost when they actively minimised the incident as being not a big deal.  They may have only been speaking for themselves but as public figures, they have a loud microphone which they used to say that the molesting of children is in fact very common and they didn't believe it warranted police intervention.  

Unfortunately the Duggar girls have learnt the hard way that the media may be fawning over you one day and ripping you to shreds the next.  Jim Bob's hubris lead them to believe that the world would be so enamored by their Christian brilliance and example that not a single person in the media would be interested in looking into their past.  Their parents failed them in every way from not providing a safe home to denying them an education and that is an absolute travesty.  But they are adults now and this case says to others that the real crime wasn't the molestation but that other people found out.  That is another dangerous message to be sending to vulnerable young people. 

The Duggars cannot nominate themselves are representatives for victims while also justifying their choice to protect a teenager who molested much younger children and allowing him to stay in the home without professional intervention.  So I hope this case is absolutely destroyed because I don't believe they have any interest in helping victims of child sexual abuse based on their response to their own case. 

[JoanArc]

32 minutes ago, farmgal4 said:

I don't think Jill is playing with a full deck right now anyway.  This could be her mental demise.

Birth stress and this IS a lot to deal with.

[SnarkyShark]

Another great comment on Jill's post about the lawsuit by BethG:

"Your parents are deflecting blame and using you as a victim. How does that feel?"

I'm not sure if any of the Duggar girls have a strong sense of how they feel because they have always been told to put others first and ignore their own feelings. They have been denied the opportunity to get to know themselves or develop strong personal identities, which is truly valuable for young people as they navigate their futures; caring about others close to you is admirable, but it is essential to be honest about yourself and what you can handle in order to make good decisions.

[MargeGunderson]

10 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

The sum total of the family's comments about the molestation is that it's not a big deal unless people find out about it.

So...is THAT a good message for other victims?

This. Given how hard they pushed the "it's no big deal, happens in most families, it's not like it was rape (so apparently it doesn't really count, Jim Boob?), we forgive him, carry on!" the lawsuit seems to suggest that the bigger crime here was people finding out about it, not the molestation itself. Or at least the crime that they could monetize. 

Don't get me wrong, it was slimy of In Touch to publish the information about minors, and if any laws were broken those responsible should be punished. I just think its f'ed up that they continue to downplay the actual molestation. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by MargeGunderson

[GeeGolly]

All identifiers were not redacted as was noted by @Kokapetl. And if I remember correctly there were also sections of typical info that should have been redacted and were missed.

Identifiers are information that will identify a person, not just their name, age and address. In addition to saying who the minors live with I believe the report also said Josh was related to 4 of them. When this happened Josh had 5 sisters. That in and of itself identified the girls with the exception of knowing that 1 of them was not molested.

If the report was redacted as it should have been In Touch would have had nothing to publish.

[Marigold]

I'm not a legal person.  

I heard the girls say that they were told this was going to be kept private. They gave details, I assume, trusting in privacy. 

Under the FOIA, then nothing is private? 

I do understand that the Duggars are a complex family with a ton of controversial thoughts/actions (to put it nicely). But I can also envision a young girl crying and a police officer telling her that it's OK and her story is safe.  Then it's not safe?  I had no idea about this FOIA. I really believed that when something is private, it's private. 

I tell parents I work with that their child's special needs records are private.  I'm not saying that anymore and advising them to consult an attorney because I'm not a legal expert. 

[hathorlive]

4 minutes ago, SnarkyShark said:

Another great comment on Jill's post about the lawsuit by BethG:

"Your parents are deflecting blame and using you as a victim. How does that feel?"

I'm not sure if any of the Duggar girls have a strong sense of how they feel because they have always been told to put others first and ignore their own feelings. They have been denied the opportunity to get to know themselves or develop strong personal identities, which is truly valuable for young people as they navigate their futures; caring about others close to you is admirable, but it is essential to be honest about yourself and what you can handle in order to make good decisions.

And I think this is the crux of the issue.  They are spokespeople for a religion that says women are to blame for sexual violence.  How you dress and act justifies male actions toward you.  Its a valid question to ask them what they did to entice Josh.  I mean, Gotthard teaches it's your fault.  

How would they know how to feel after being taught that and then having their parents force forgiveness down their throats?  Still, an opposing attorney would have a field day.  Especially if they can subpoena some widsom books.

[GeeGolly]

3 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

And I think this is the crux of the issue.  They are spokespeople for a religion that says women are to blame for sexual violence.  How you dress and act justifies male actions toward you.  Its a valid question to ask them what they did to entice Josh.  I mean, Gotthard teaches it's your fault.  

How would they know how to feel after being taught that and then having their parents force forgiveness down their throats?  Still, an opposing attorney would have a field day.  Especially if they can subpoena some widsom books.

And that's a good thing?

[Marigold]

11 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If the report was redacted as it should have been In Touch would have had nothing to publish.

Good point. 

[hathorlive]

Just now, GeeGolly said:

And that's a good thing?

If the Duggars are willing to go to court to get money, then everything they believe in is up for grabs.  Do you think it's a good thing that there is a religion out there, held up to the viewing public and given free publicity, that says women are solely responsible for sexual assault and that it's up to them to control men's urges? 

I don't believe in this crap but the Duggars do.  Now own it.  You preach it.  You put your lifestyle on television for people to see.  So yes, it's a good thing when bad stuff gets attention.  If they are proud of their religion and its teachings then they have no fear in discussing how their beliefs didn't create five sexual abuse victims, right?

I'm not justifying attorneys who attack.  I'm just explaining, having been on the end of a lot of attorney attacks in my career, that these are the inconvenient truths the Duggars may be forced to talk about in court.  Or in depositions.   I take no joy in seeing brainwashed females in the real world with no clue for what is about to happen.  They live in a sheltered world where everything is controlled.  I'm thinking about what may happen. Jill, Jessa, Joy and Jinger are not.  Mainly because they have no clue what this case may bring about.  And their parents are never looking out for their best interests.

[Oldernowiser]

Can anyone think of a credible reason that isn't just a naked money grab that JimBlob would wait two years before filing, other than he might view the victims as being somehow compromised as marriage material, because that one makes me want to projectile vomit. The idea that a father, any father, would view the molestation of his daughters as somehow being their burden??? I can't with that.

So...why go after this now?

[sometimesy]

If the twitter comments are any indication, the 4 J girls are in for a wild ride. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by sometimesy

[GeeGolly]

1 minute ago, Oldernowiser said:

Can anyone think of a credible reason that isn't just a naked money grab that JimBlob would wait two years before filing, other than he might view the victims as being somehow compromised as marriage material, because that one makes me want to projectile vomit. The idea that a father, any father, would view the molestation of his daughters as somehow being their burden??? I can't with that.

So...why go after this now?

The older 3 are married and the youngest will be any day now.

[Absolom]

31 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

If the report was redacted as it should have been In Touch would have had nothing to publish.

That's the crux of the issue.  Was it redacted in accordance with applicable state law?  It isn't how I or another poster thinks it should have been done.  Was it in accordance with the law in effect in Arkansas in 2015?  I am not a practicing Arkansas attorney so I'm going to watch and see how the court case goes. 

[hathorlive]

So the court filing specifically accuses In Touch from making money off the family (and Jim Bob doesn't??) as well as mentioning the cancellation of their series as a direct result of the publication of the FOIA info.   So, it's also about the Duggar bottom line AND victim's rights.

And Freejinger is specifically mentioned as a forum where people were discussing the victim's identities.

Edited May 20, 2017 by hathorlive

[Marigold]

8 minutes ago, PoshSprinkles said:

The reason the report was open to the public is because Josh was never prosecuted and charged with anything. Had he been "dealt with" through the proper legal channels, then the report would have been sealed and inaccessible to the public. The police officer simply gathered information and interviews and the department concluded no charges could be made and that was that. 

 

The girls were told their story was private.  They told their story under the assumption that it was private.  I had no idea that privacy was contingent on the abuser being charged or prosecuted.  

I really thought that a sexual abuse victim/survivor had more privacy rights. Obviously I am wrong. Learn something every day. 

Thanks for answering my question. 

[Oldernowiser]

Sorry, but they don't give diddly fuckall about anyone other than themselves. So we can rule out that explanation other than it sounds better than "Daddy wants to see if he can get some money out of this."

[Mollie]

1 hour ago, andromeda331 said:

I really don't see any of them holding up under cross-examination. They only know how to say everything Daddy tells them to say and that's not going to help them. They've also always been able to delete comments and questions they don't like and control all of the questions they get asked in interviews. They won't be able to control the questions this time.

I totally agree.  This isn't a Megyn Kelly interview where Jim Bob was getting text messages on his cellphone throughout and where the family was coached for days by the PR guy Jim Bob hired, Chad Gallagher.  And I can't believe Jill is being so cocky about this in her tweet.

Does she realize that she may not be awarded attorney fees even if she wins? Even if her attorneys took the case on contingency fees, can she afford defense fees in a counter-suit if In Touch files one?  In the Fox interview, Jessa said that the parent company of In Touch was "a major porn provider" and Jill agreed with that.  Jessa continued, "And so I don't know, just maybe their mindset they're just used to making objects out of women and maybe we just didn't seem any different."  All those accusations they were coached to say may just come back to haunt them if InTouch sues for slander.

Then they went on to explain that they were upset because "Well, it's not the truth, first of all. Everything was distorted. And so we feel like our story was not being told. And we felt like it shouldn't have been told. We're -- the victims are the only ones who can speak for themselves. So now that it's already been warped and told however they want to portray it, then we felt like that's why Jessa and I wanted to come out and just say, like, that's not what happened. We've dealt with it, we've taken care of it ... Like - and then I feel like in this situation, we're again helpless as to the people handing over this report and then the tabloids taking that and - and printing that, sensationalizing it and really using it for their own profit."

She had better quit playing with her 'medical things' and ask for more donations to see this through.  

They should have filed this two years ago if they were that upset about all the articles written since then.  Now, they have a new season of the reality show starting and Joy's wedding.  This lawsuit and Josh's sexual molestation scandal are much more interesting and the reality TV girls may have shot themselves in the foot by filing this when they did.

Edited May 20, 2017 by Mollie

[EAG46]

9 hours ago, MaryAnneSpier said:

I grew up in a very religious household (Assembly of God) and was raped by my boyfriend at 13 years old. Since I had been taught about modesty of clothing so as not to tempt my brothers in Christ and put myself in a situation to be raped, I blamed myself for it. I believed that I had been responsible for his actions because I wasn't covered up enough. Since I had had sex (and apparently was "asking for it" by wearing somewhat form-fitting clothes and sneaking out of the house to meet him) , I was impure and damaged goods. I thought for over a decade that no one would ever want to marry me because I was no longer a virgin. The fact that I did not choose to have sex with him was irrelevant to my mind. So yeah, that's the kind of long-lasting effect these strict Christian sects can have on girls who are victims of sexual assault.

Shit MaryAnneSpier I'm so sorry that happened to you.  I hope you were able to get some help.   YOU WERE NOT AT FAULT IN ANY WAY.  And I hope your your family realizes that too now.

[babyhouseman]

Michael K. of Dlisted.com snarks on celebrities. He wrote about this lawsuit in a scathing, sarcastic and funny way. 

Lawsuit

Excerpt

"Since they’re in the suing mood, the four Js should sue Josh Duggar and their parents for obvious reasons. They should also sue child services for not immediately yanking them out of that unholy house of horrors and placing them with a healthier family (examples of a healthier family: diseased-ridden rats, a pack of wolves, a Baby Abuelita doll, etc…). And they should sue their parents again for forcing them to work as 24/7 nannies and only paying them with goddamn tater tot casserole."

[Mollie]

11 minutes ago, babyhouseman said:

Michael K. of Dlisted.com snarks on celebrities. He wrote about this lawsuit in a scathing, sarcastic and funny way. 

Lawsuit

Excerpt

"Since they’re in the suing mood, the four Js should sue Josh Duggar and their parents for obvious reasons. They should also sue child services for not immediately yanking them out of that unholy house of horrors and placing them with a healthier family (examples of a healthier family: diseased-ridden rats, a pack of wolves, a Baby Abuelita doll, etc…). And they should sue their parents again for forcing them to work as 24/7 nannies and only paying them with goddamn tater tot casserole."

another excerpt:

"The sisters say they’re suing to 'protect all children who are victims of abuse.' The City of Springdale basically said that the lawsuit is a waste of the public’s money.

“'The claims and allegations in this lawsuit are without merit and are false, and we are confident that the Federal Court will take the time to carefully hear the facts and arguments in this matter … It is unfortunate that now, at this late date, the Plaintiffs have chosen to file a misguided lawsuit against dedicated public servants and seeking damages from public tax dollars.'”

[JoanArc]

They got the TV show back...and in the same network a month or so later (and it aired that December). I get that technically is two different shows, but come the f on. No one lost the chance to appear besides Josh, Michelle and JB. 

 

Winning this suit is the ultimate kind of magical thinking. Everything will go back to the way it was, Josh, Michelle, and JB will be back on the show, endless fans and chances to grift. No messy scandals. Truly heaven on Earth.

 

Quote

The reason the report was open to the public is because Josh was never prosecuted and charged with anything. Had he been "dealt with" through the proper legal channels, then the report would have been sealed and inaccessible to the public. The police officer simply gathered information and interviews and the department concluded no charges could be made and that was that. 

The complete avoidance of all legal reprocessions is really what seals the kind of amoral assholes JimBob and Michelle are. They went out of their way to make sure Precious Josh didn't suffer. I'm glad it's what eventually got the, caught. Josh in juvie for a few months could've been concealed, he might have gotten real help, and the truth wouldn't have gotten out. They'd still have the show.

 

On another note,  since it was basically an open secret in the town can't InTouch use that fact to their advantage?  

[Lunera]

I commented on Jill's tweet and it was removed almost immediately. I bet Jessa posted it on Jill's account to avoid backlash and is watching it like a hawk.

[doodlebug]

6 hours ago, hathorlive said:

I think they are trying to get a cash settlement out of either In Touch or the city.  I don't think they want them on the stand at all because that opens up the possibility that they will be forced to give details, under oath, and answers questions, under oath.   And let's face it, these are not sophisticated witnesses that you can coached on what to say.  They are essentially an attorney's dream because you'll be able to shake them up by talking fast, using words they don't know and generally getting them to give testimony that is spontaneous in nature.  Jim Bob, if he's got an ounce of sense, will not want this in court. 

Their parenting will be officially documented and it will be worse for the adults and Josh.  He's hoping for a quick settlement as a cash grab.

But nobody EVER settles these cases without taking depositions first.  All the defense attorneys need to do is call each of the sisters in turn in for a deposition in which they will be asked about the molestation's effects on them and then confronted with their own public statements given in a paid interview.  Presuming that all of them, but especially Joy and Jill, are going to be inarticulate messes no matter how much their legal team coaches them beforehand; the defense isn't going to want to settle this; they're going to want to pursue it to the bitter end and all of those depositions are ultimately part of the public record and the tabloids have a field day.  While a case brought by victims of molestation should be an easy sell to the public, the Duggars themselves have muddied those waters considerably with their own past statements.

I understand JimBoob's hubris and stupidity in thinking he could parley this into both money and favorable PR.  Maybe he feels that, because he's suing the local community, that public sentiment will force a settlement.  But, if the city attorneys are at all savvy, they will want to pursue it to the bitter end. Does anyone know the Duggars' general relationship in the community?  Are they loved for their faith, for their success, for their fertility?  Do people there feel the media has been has been unfair to them?  Unless there is overwhelmingly positive feeling for them in the community and outrage over the media coverage of the molestations; I don't see how this is going to turn out well for the Duggar sisters.

[hathorlive]

Another story:

 

"They are hoping for a settlement in the range of $10 million to $15 million.”

Wow...Jim Bob's thinking BIGLY.

 

"The suit states that the four sisters told police they allegedly were molested by Josh between 2002 and 2003, when they were minors. One was just five at the time. They claim in the federal suit that investigators promised them confidentiality."

But see, law enforcement is legally allowed to be duplicitous when interviewing people.  If you watched Law and Order, you'd know this Duggars.  Police can give misleading statements while interviewing you.  The main point is what does AR law say about what information/reports/data is available to FOIA requests and what isn't.  But as a general rule, the police do mislead.  No one pinky swore to the big guy in the sky.  Duggars have such a simplistic view of the world.

Not saying that victims shouldn't be protected.  If anything, which their lawsuit CLEARLY doesn't ask for, is that perhaps laws need to be tightened in the state or new laws enacted to protect data better.

[JoanArc]

Quote

"They are hoping for a settlement in the range of $10 million to $15 million.”

*ahem*

DREAM THE FUCK ON!

[Oldernowiser]

Wow. They are so insanely tone deaf.

Seriously, does TLC have a PR agency?

[mythoughtis]

I don't see it as being worth millions. Yes, the show was cancelled- but wasn't that actually after the Ashley Madison event?   then the show was brought back a year later.,  I doubt TLC pays them 10 million per season. Next thing you know TLC's contract will end up in evidrnce.

Yes, they are victims, yes their privacy was violated. Yes, Springdale police department(where Dads are allowed to ride along) needs to apologize for poor redaction.  That report would have never been published if They hadn't been PUBLIC figures. And as to privacy- Anna - birth- toilet.  

Edited May 20, 2017 by mythoughtis

[SnarkyShark]

12 minutes ago, hathorlive said:

How would they know how to feel after being taught that and then having their parents force forgiveness down their throats?  

I cannot imagine what it is like to constantly be told that how you feel does not matter.

Simply having other people acknowledge how you feel and being free to express it is essential for healthy communication, and I doubt that honest and healthy communication exists in Duggarland. I suspect it is discouraged. It is hard for me to comprehend what it is like to be raised in that reality, where you learn to push your feelings aside from a young age, where you are told your feelings are wrong, and where you have to hide your feelings instead of expressing them. That really weighs on you, and even more so over time. Regularly pushing aside your emotions leads you to eventually lose touch with them, and combined with perpetually putting others first while minimizing yourself causes you to lose any sense of self as you slowly die on the inside.

[hathorlive]

Just now, SnarkyShark said:

I cannot imagine what it is like to constantly be told that how you feel does not matter.

Simply having other people acknowledge how you feel and being free to express it is essential for healthy communication, and I doubt that honest and healthy communication exists in Duggarland. I suspect it is discouraged. It is hard for me to comprehend what it is like to be raised in that reality, where you learn to push your feelings aside from a young age, where you are told your feelings are wrong, and where you have to hide your feelings instead of expressing them. That really weighs on you, and even more so over time. Regularly pushing aside your emotions leads you to eventually lose touch with them, and combined with perpetually putting others first while minimizing yourself causes you to lose any sense of self as you slowly die on the inside.

And worse, that when someone violates you, hurts you, you are told not only do your feelings not matter, but that his feelings matter more than your health and safety.  I'm not religious, but I can't believe that any god is behind that kind of thinking.   I feel horrible for these girls.  THey had no chance the way they were brought up.  But they are are adults now.  And they need to find a way to express their thoughts.  All they are doing is repeating the cycle.

[Sew Sumi]

4 hours ago, SnarkyShark said:

Another great comment on Jill's post about the lawsuit by BethG:

"Your parents are deflecting blame and using you as a victim. How does that feel?"

I'm not sure if any of the Duggar girls have a strong sense of how they feel because they have always been told to put others first and ignore their own feelings. They have been denied the opportunity to get to know themselves or develop strong personal identities, which is truly valuable for young people as they navigate their futures; caring about others close to you is admirable, but it is essential to be honest about yourself and what you can handle in order to make good decisions.

I'm BethG. LOL

[SnarkyShark]

Oh. Haha. I had no idea! Your comment intrigued me because I doubt the Duggar girls are capable of answering it since they were forced to become completely detached from what they feel. So thank you to @Sew Sumi and everyone on here for always giving me plenty of food for thought!

[sometimesy]

Is there a chance they reward $ to one or some, but not all the girls? 

[Sew Sumi]

Maybe Joy, because she was still a minor when Joshgate broke. I think that's the only leg they have to stand on. 

[Oldernowiser]

3 hours ago, doodlebug said:

 Does anyone know the Duggars' general relationship in the community?  Are they loved for their faith, for their success, for their fertility?  Do people there feel the media has been has been unfair to them?  Unless there is overwhelmingly positive feeling for them in the community and outrage over the media coverage of the molestations; I don't see how this is going to turn out well for the Duggar sisters.

I can't speak to their local reputation specifically...but I lived in a small, rural, poor community for many years. Pretty much no one really begrudges anyone who does well, as long as they didn't screw over anyone local in the process, don't act like they're better than everyone else, and don't bring negative attention to the town.

The Duggars, particularly Jim Bob, would fail spectacularly on all counts. Besides, he's a used car salesman and a landlord of low-income properties...both tend to leave a lot of people behind who feel pretty screwed over.

Small towns also hate hypocrites. Enough said.

[jumper sage]

49 minutes ago, Sew Sumi said:

Maybe Joy, because she was still a minor when Joshgate broke. I think that's the only leg they have to stand on. 

Every time I think of the youngest one being chased, as if in a game, I want to scream.  She was hunted, like prey.

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, SnarkyShark said:

I cannot imagine what it is like to constantly be told that how you feel does not matter.

Simply having other people acknowledge how you feel and being free to express it is essential for healthy communication, and I doubt that honest and healthy communication exists in Duggarland. I suspect it is discouraged. It is hard for me to comprehend what it is like to be raised in that reality, where you learn to push your feelings aside from a young age, where you are told your feelings are wrong, and where you have to hide your feelings instead of expressing them. That really weighs on you, and even more so over time. Regularly pushing aside your emotions leads you to eventually lose touch with them, and combined with perpetually putting others first while minimizing yourself causes you to lose any sense of self as you slowly die on the inside.

It feels like crap. But in my experience most people a) go numb and then b) end up "believing" exactly what the perpetrators of this stuff tell them, i.e., that they have no feelings; that any feelings that they might think they have are incorrect; and that anybody who seems to have feelings is "crazy." Every now and then there's an explosion of some kind. But those don't mean anything, except that the exploder is "crazy" and will be locked up somewhere if explosions persist. Oh, and you never trust yourself ever again. Or anybody else either, of course. But it's the not trusting yourself that messes you up more. 

And yet if a godly couple do this to 19 kids, they get invited to be keynote speakers at "family conferences." 

[Churchhoney]

5 hours ago, Oldernowiser said:

I can't speak to their local reputation specifically...but I lived in a small, rural, poor community for many years. Pretty much no one really begrudges anyone who does well, as long as they didn't screw over anyone local in the process, don't act like they're better than everyone else, and don't bring negative attention to the town.

The Duggars, particularly Jim Bob, would fail spectacularly on all counts. Besides, he's a used car salesman and a landlord of low-income properties...both tend to leave a lot of people behind who feel pretty screwed over.

Small towns also hate hypocrites. Enough said.

Definitely. 

I think it's hard to see Jim Bob being really liked in any community, small or large. He's a jerk and a hypocrite and of course he doesn't like anyone else. .... He's also an idiot and not even an entertaining one. Just so obviously an arrogant clod, no matter how you look at him. Look at the old senate race -- people were absolutely disgusted with Tim Hutchinson and he ended up losing the final contest by a whopping margin. Yet he beat Jim Bob by a really whopping margin. 

Edited May 20, 2017 by Churchhoney

[ginger90]

This story is horrible and local to me. It has ben reported across the country. I'm sharing the link because describing it would be hard. I am also sharing it because while the children's names are not mentioned, the parent's names as well as the address are. Televised news reports even have video of the outside of the home. Just thought it was an example of victims who later in life will have this out there.

http://m.republicanherald.com/police-offer-details-in-caged-child-case-mother-identified-1.2194692

[GeeGolly]

Say there were two guys in the Vietnam war; Head Cook Clint and Troop Leader Larry.  Clint heard stories of the front line and lost a couple of buddies and came home with PTSD. Larry was at the front line and saw and participated in gun fire came home without PTSD.

Larry can't be outraged that the war occurred, but Clint can be?

From what I'm hearing the Duggar 4 can only be upset that the molestations were made public if they feel damaged and hate Josh & their parents. And because their parents suck they should garner no sympathy as survivors of molestation. 

I'm guessing my perspective is different because many of the folks I work with have relationships (broad term) with their abusers and come from crappy homes. 

[sigmaforce86]

9 hours ago, PoshSprinkles said:

The reason the report was open to the public is because Josh was never prosecuted and charged with anything. Had he been "dealt with" through the proper legal channels, then the report would have been sealed and inaccessible to the public. The police officer simply gathered information and interviews and the department concluded no charges could be made and that was that. 

This, This, This!  I was going to say the same thing and I wish it was part of the news stories because it's probably the most important point AND it throws the blame for the info becoming public right back where it belongs; on Jim Bob.  As tough as it must be to take your child through the legal system (in "normal" families), if he had followed through and let the court and CPS handle it from start to finish then whole thing would have been official sealed as juvenile court  records.  His choice to sweep it under the rug, not get Josh real help, tell the girls it was no big deal and not allow full follow up left them with an informal report that has no privacy protection for the family especially the girls.  

A legal suit probably won't have a chance, that can't go by a vague moral "right or wrong" only whether they got the info through completely lawful means.  A civil suit has a better chance but I wonder if they've considered who they're dealing with?  I think Jim Bob has gotten his own way in his family for so long the way he rules over them and he has such a well developed ego that he believes his word is law with everyone and everything he encounters.  He probably thinks he can do the same thing in this case and he might be in for a very rude surprise when the magazine doesn't just knuckle under and fights back for real.   

[lookeyloo]

All,disgusting. And if joyless gets the award it will go into the family pot and hardly benefit her at all. My first husband used to say to me whenever I expressed a feeling "that's ridiculous - you shouldn't feel that way". It took therapy, practice and years to understand my feelings were valid. No hope for the duggar kids. 

[SMama]

I am going straight to hell, but my jaded side wonders if the expected proceeds are to benefit Joshley and family. The 4 have continued to earn money (even if it goes to the family pot) after the scandals. Joshley is unemployable, and will continue to pop M kids like Pez. It would be the ultimate Boob snake move, to have the perpetrator of the abuse benefit from the lawsuit. 

[ginger90]

Jill tweeting about this law suit as the spokesperson,  ("we") and Derick re-tweeting it, makes me wonder if it was done with legal advice.

[ginger90]

While I'm here......an article from 2015

http://5newsonline.com/2015/06/08/no-misconduct-by-police-chief-springdale-mayor-says-about-release-of-duggar-incident-report/

[Churchhoney]

40 minutes ago, GeeGolly said:

Say there were two guys in the Vietnam war; Head Cook Clint and Troop Leader Larry.  Clint heard stories of the front line and lost a couple of buddies and came home with PTSD. Larry was at the front line and saw and participated in gun fire came home without PTSD.

Larry can't be outraged that the war occurred, but Clint can be?

From what I'm hearing the Duggar 4 can only be upset that the molestations were made public if they feel damaged and hate Josh & their parents. And because their parents suck they should garner no sympathy as survivors of molestation. 

I'm guessing my perspective is different because many of the folks I work with have relationships (broad term) with their abusers and come from crappy homes. 

Yep, I get what you're saying. Completely logical. Obviously in a therapeutic sense this is how you handle it and look at it. 

What I feel about the story is different, though, because this is the way it would have gone down had it happened at my house. The particular events of the Duggar story are different from the many stories I could tell in which this sort of sequence occurred, and in my house there was no Gothard teaching involved, just the family's own sick thinking, but my bet -- which could be wrong, of course  -- is that the overall arc of the story is the same .

When Joshley did his sly and curious thing and mommy and daddy went nuts shoving it under the rug so they could get fame, power and money, those girls were little kids who were repeatedly told -- a la Mr. Gothard -- that they'd burn in hell if they didn't instantly forgive their brother and start "feeling" that nothing in the least bad had happened to them. Nothing bad had happened to them because their parents said so. If anything bad had happened that would mean that the parents weren't perfect and of course that can't be true. They are the essential umbrellas of protection in the household and to disbelieve them is to court disaster.  Moreover, in Gothard land, the only real suffering you get comes when you don't instantly forgive sexual molesters and fail to realize that the molestation is showing you your own "blind spots" and flaws. (I swear that's what Gothard's crap says .... And of course it does because it was written by a serial sexual molester who intended to go right on being one until death do him part.) 

So with that being the message poured into their ears day and night for forever, that's what they "felt" about what happened with Joshley. It was nothing! It was never a problem! Mommy and Daddy are our umbrellas of protection so no problem can have happened! (the other thing that Gothard says. Because he -- the sexual molester of young women -- also strenuously teaches that children must always instantly feel and think what their "leader" adults tell them to. Surprise surprise there as well, with him being one of the leaders and all.) 

Then, having adopted these prescribed "feelings" as their own for years, when the evil police and the evil magazine told the bad and false story that their curious brother had done something wrong and maybe even their parents, too (No!!!! Never!!!!), the girls adopted the new prescribed feeling, which was this one: The only bad thing they've ever experienced during the entire history was their pain at having their brother and parents dishonestly maligned in print and their own names put out there.

(And why would it be so bad to have their names put out there? Well, probably nobody's going to spell out this argument for them, but it's bad because it shows for certain that they're the ones that brought this shame onto their brother and their parents. If it weren't for them, nobody'd be accusing their brother and parents of doing anything wrong! This shows clearly that you've betrayed your umbrella of protection, which is just like betraying Jesus, and about the worst -- and most dangerous -- thing you can do.)

Now I completely get why it's therapeutically unsound for anyone to let on to the girls that they think this is the way their "feeling" and "thinking" may have developed. And I get why everybody has to accept it at face value when they say that molestation was never a problem for them at all but the magazine story, years and years after the fact, was. 

Nevertheless, based on my own history, I just simply don't believe that those are the feelings they'd have if they hadn't been in a brainwashing situation from birth and remain in that situation today. It's the same way that I'm sure somebody who's just escaped from North Korea thinks and feels a whole lot of flat-out false stuff that they were brainwashed into and that they'll almost certainly start to doubt after they've spent a few years in the outside world. Of course, the Duggar girls will never go into the outside world. So since they're going to be in thrall to Daddy forever, it may be just as well that they see things his way. (Skeptical that it's ever good for any parents, as they all except Jana will be, to be this deluded, though...)

I do think he's putting them at risk again by signing them onto his cash-grab lawsuit, though. I'm sure they think it's a lawsuit intended to punish the real killers and vindicate their family's unblemished record of excellent parenting. But I'm also sure that JB knows it's just for money and he's either so arrogant and deluded that he doesn't realize the girls could be put into a bad situation by it or he just doesn't give a crap about that. I could go either way on that. Maybe it's both.