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Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

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2 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

So not a horrible way to spend a couple of hours, but a fairly pointless one.

That about sums it up. I understand for marketing you want to see if a Star Wars movie can carry water without Jedi/Sith, which for me isn't particularly interesting. The battle and of course Vader was good. It was cool to see ships from the cartoons. They completely blew the last line though. 

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I hate the timed aspect of most creative, competitive reality shows.  I understand why they do it because (a) you gotta cap it sometime and (b) it adds another layer of drama and you want to see what these contestants can do under pressure but it turns the judges into such dicks.  For once when a judge says "I wish you'd spent a little more time on x" the contestant would answer "Me too but you only gave me 10 minutes to build a lifesized David statue out of Legos with one arm tied behind my back.  This is what you get."  I think Making It was the best show I've seen with this because while there is always going to be that crunch time factor no matter what, the contestants seemed to be set up more for success than the drama factor.  And while being the best with limited resources (time/materials) is definitely a worthy skill, I tend to like it better when I can see what these folks can do when they're less encumbered.

 

I also just have no interest in competitive cooking shows in general.  They seem very esoteric to me whereas I don't get that sense with building shows.  Maybe because I can't taste/appreciate the final result on a cooking show so when a judge says "the cinnamon really brings out the flavor of your duck" I'm like "I guess I'll take you word for  it."  And I don't know why, but they also just sound really elitist to me when they say stuff like that.

Edited by kiddo82
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I hate the American cooking shows when they get assigned their dish, they don’t get enough time to make it properly, and then halfway through the emcee comes in and announces they have to incorporate some specific ingredient like grapefruit.  Then we have to hear the judges complain that they didn’t fully incorporate the grapefruit into their chocolate soufflé.  One time I want the tables turned and the judges have to play the game and be critiqued on their dishes.

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1 hour ago, kiddo82 said:

I hate the timed aspect of most creative, competitive reality shows.  I understand why they do it because (a) you gotta cap it sometime and (b) it adds another layer of drama and you want to see what these contestants can do under pressure but it turns the judges into such dicks.  For once when a judge says "I wish you'd spent a little more time on x" the contestant would answer "Me too but you only gave me 10 minutes to build a lifesized David statue out of Legos with one arm tied behind my back.  This is what you get."  I think Making It was the best show I've seen with this because while there is always going to be that crunch time factor no matter what, the contestants seemed to be set up more for success than the drama factor.  And while being the best with limited resources (time/materials) is definitely a worthy skill, I tend to like it better when I can see what these folks can do when they're less encumbered.

I also just have no interest in competitive cooking shows in general.  They seem very esoteric to me whereas I don't get that sense with building shows.  Maybe because I can't taste/appreciate the final result on a cooking show so when a judge says "the cinnamon really brings out the flavor of your duck" I'm like "I guess I'll take you word for  it."  And I don't know why, but they also just sound really elitist to me when they say stuff like that.

 

54 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I hate the American cooking shows when they get assigned their dish, they don’t get enough time to make it properly, and then halfway through the emcee comes in and announces they have to incorporate some specific ingredient like grapefruit.  Then we have to hear the judges complain that they didn’t fully incorporate the grapefruit into their chocolate soufflé.  One time I want the tables turned and the judges have to play the game and be critiqued on their dishes.

I hate them all except for the Great British Baking Show, the contestants are great and can actually bake. They support and help each other. There's two rounds where they already know what their going to be making and have usually practiced a lot in the week or weeks before. The only blind one is the second challenge when their given a basic recipe by one of the judges to make which is usually something they contestants have never made and/or heard of before. The judging is usually fair. The one who leaves at the end of the episode is always the one who should where on an American one they make it so certain ones make it to the end whether they actually did a good job or not. The judges do compliment a lot along with critiquing. And most of the finish product looks like something I'd want to eat. Its a great show and really want I want to see from baking/cooking shows. American baking shows they try to make it so dramatic when it doesn't need to be and they always have to have a "story" about what their baking like it was their grandmother's or something. Not every thing someone bakes or cooks has a story. Its just unnecessary. 

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I love Great British Bake Off!  

Regarding the dramatic stories, I was part of a group that auditioned for a reality trivia competition show.  The money went to a designated charity, the producer really liked a local charity connected with our church, and they desperately needed another person on the team who could pass the written test.  We got to the audition part, and the producer desperately wanted us to be picked.  I have a child with some significant special needs and she pointed to me and said, “I am going to make you cry.”  Now, first of all I hate being in front of a camera.  Secondly, a comment like that completely numbs me.  I knew right then that I wouldn’t cry no matter what she said, and let me tell you she stopped that camera a lot and tried her hardest to make me.  We didn’t get picked, thank goodness.  But now every time I see someone cry during an interview on a reality or competitive show, my stomach turns at the manipulation I know happened to get that.

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44 minutes ago, Crs97 said:

I love Great British Bake Off!  

Regarding the dramatic stories, I was part of a group that auditioned for a reality trivia competition show.  The money went to a designated charity, the producer really liked a local charity connected with our church, and they desperately needed another person on the team who could pass the written test.  We got to the audition part, and the producer desperately wanted us to be picked.  I have a child with some significant special needs and she pointed to me and said, “I am going to make you cry.”  Now, first of all I hate being in front of a camera.  Secondly, a comment like that completely numbs me.  I knew right then that I wouldn’t cry no matter what she said, and let me tell you she stopped that camera a lot and tried her hardest to make me.  We didn’t get picked, thank goodness.  But now every time I see someone cry during an interview on a reality or competitive show, my stomach turns at the manipulation I know happened to get that.

I'm so sorry. That's so horrible.

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2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love Great British Bake Off!  

Regarding the dramatic stories, I was part of a group that auditioned for a reality trivia competition show.  The money went to a designated charity, the producer really liked a local charity connected with our church, and they desperately needed another person on the team who could pass the written test.  We got to the audition part, and the producer desperately wanted us to be picked.  I have a child with some significant special needs and she pointed to me and said, “I am going to make you cry.”  Now, first of all I hate being in front of a camera.  Secondly, a comment like that completely numbs me.  I knew right then that I wouldn’t cry no matter what she said, and let me tell you she stopped that camera a lot and tried her hardest to make me.  We didn’t get picked, thank goodness.  But now every time I see someone cry during an interview on a reality or competitive show, my stomach turns at the manipulation I know happened to get that.

Good on you for staying strong! I hate that kind of manipulation too. Of course, I stay away from reality TV. It's highly selective as to what it shows. At least fiction tells you it isn't real.

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6 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I hate the American cooking shows when they get assigned their dish, they don’t get enough time to make it properly, and then halfway through the emcee comes in and announces they have to incorporate some specific ingredient like grapefruit.  Then we have to hear the judges complain that they didn’t fully incorporate the grapefruit into their chocolate soufflé.  One time I want the tables turned and the judges have to play the game and be critiqued on their dishes.

Ugh!  This bugged me on the lego show too.  (Lego Masters?) Where half way through each challenge there would be a twist.  It never failed that you'd have one team crushing the first part of the challenge and then just could never incorporate the second part because it was the complete opposite of what they had been working for half a day.  Then the judges would be like "I don't really see how you incorporated all the movie genres we kept throwing at you every ten minutes." Whereas some team would inevitably be saved by the twist because what they had been working on for the first part was pretty terrible and it gave them a chance to scrap it.

Maybe it's just the judging on these shows that bugs?  I was watching the Sims reality show and the challenge was to create a mode of transportation using unconventional means.  One contestant made a bus and she explained exactly what building pieces she used like light pieces to make the wheels and wall pieces flipped around, etc.  It wasn't crazy but it was exactly what they asked for.  The other contestant made a time machine--and even though the judging panel admitted you can't make an unconventional time machine because there is no such thing as a conventional one--they all lost their shit.  And then when it came time to give results they were like "You could have interpreted this challenge in different ways" (no.  The directions were pretty clear) And one judge even said that the school bus was "adequate" to which I literally exclaimed "dick" at the TV.  (As an aside, I think that's one of the most passive aggressive, condescending thing anyone can say.)  Granted, the time machine was way cooler, but you can't change your mind about the letter of the law at the end of the challenge.

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1 hour ago, kiddo82 said:

Maybe it's just the judging on these shows that bugs?  I was watching the Sims reality show and the challenge was to create a mode of transportation using unconventional means.  One contestant made a bus and she explained exactly what building pieces she used like light pieces to make the wheels and wall pieces flipped around, etc.  It wasn't crazy but it was exactly what they asked for.  The other contestant made a time machine--and even though the judging panel admitted you can't make an unconventional time machine because there is no such thing as a conventional one--they all lost their shit.  And then when it came time to give results they were like "You could have interpreted this challenge in different ways" (no.  The directions were pretty clear) And one judge even said that the school bus was "adequate" to which I literally exclaimed "dick" at the TV.  (As an aside, I think that's one of the most passive aggressive, condescending thing anyone can say.)  Granted, the time machine was way cooler, but you can't change your mind about the letter of the law at the end of the challenge.

According to TV, time machines either look like police boxes or the USS Enterprise. Anything else, I'd pay as unconventional.

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9 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I hate the timed aspect of most creative, competitive reality shows.  I understand why they do it because (a) you gotta cap it sometime and (b) it adds another layer of drama and you want to see what these contestants can do under pressure but it turns the judges into such dicks.  For once when a judge says "I wish you'd spent a little more time on x" the contestant would answer "Me too but you only gave me 10 minutes to build a lifesized David statue out of Legos with one arm tied behind my back.  This is what you get."  I think Making It was the best show I've seen with this because while there is always going to be that crunch time factor no matter what, the contestants seemed to be set up more for success than the drama factor.  And while being the best with limited resources (time/materials) is definitely a worthy skill, I tend to like it better when I can see what these folks can do when they're less encumbered.

 

I also just have no interest in competitive cooking shows in general.  They seem very esoteric to me whereas I don't get that sense with building shows.  Maybe because I can't taste/appreciate the final result on a cooking show so when a judge says "the cinnamon really brings out the flavor of your duck" I'm like "I guess I'll take you word for  it."  And I don't know why, but they also just sound really elitist to me when they say stuff like that.

My husband and I have been watching a lot of baking/cooking competitions since the beginning of the pandemic:


The Great British Bake Off (our favorite so far)

Final Table

Zumbo's Just Desserts

Crazy Delicious

Sugar Rush

I loving them so much more than most of the American shows we've watched for one reason:  They're kinder.  I hate how mean and bitchy the judges and competitors can get in the American shows (or the shows get ridiculous a few season in--added drama, silly games, etc).   I read a little bit on the Final Table forum here and some people mentioned that they thought Top Chef was better, so we tried it and could barely make it through the pilot episode.  The only competitive American shows I can handle are/were Face Off, Making It,  and the first few seasons of Master Chef (this one also had it's nasty moments, so we stopped watching when it got to be too much) and Project Runway (although that one gets mean and bitchy from time to time as well---but I put up with it because I love seeing the final designs).  Sugar Rush is American and it's pretty good so far.  Final Table, also American, was good (but most of the contestants were from other countries).  Zumbo's Just Desserts was a bit over produced--especially in the first few episodes of each season and Crazy Delicious was way over produced all the way through, but everyone was nice and it was an interesting take on it.  We're also watching Blown Away which is not too bad so far.  It's a glass blowing competition and each episode runs 25 minutes.  It's fascinating to watch them work.

 

 

Edited by Shannon L.
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2 hours ago, Anduin said:

According to TV, time machines either look like police boxes or the USS Enterprise. Anything else, I'd pay as unconventional.

Or a DeLorean

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12 hours ago, Crs97 said:

I love Great British Bake Off!  

Regarding the dramatic stories, I was part of a group that auditioned for a reality trivia competition show.  The money went to a designated charity, the producer really liked a local charity connected with our church, and they desperately needed another person on the team who could pass the written test.  We got to the audition part, and the producer desperately wanted us to be picked.  I have a child with some significant special needs and she pointed to me and said, “I am going to make you cry.”  Now, first of all I hate being in front of a camera.  Secondly, a comment like that completely numbs me.  I knew right then that I wouldn’t cry no matter what she said, and let me tell you she stopped that camera a lot and tried her hardest to make me.  We didn’t get picked, thank goodness.  But now every time I see someone cry during an interview on a reality or competitive show, my stomach turns at the manipulation I know happened to get that.

That is horrible, but not surprising. One thing I LOVE about GBBO is that Mel and Sue deliberately ruined shots when production would try to make the Bakers cry. If a baker was doing an interview and production were prodding them to tell some story that would bring tears, Mel or Sue would rush into the background and do something stupid or start swearing or whatever so that they couldn't use the footage. That is what set the show apart and forced it to focus on baking drama rather than personal history drama. 

I HATE knowing contestants backstories because it is almost always just manipulation (by production) to make us root for the one they know is going to win, or to make us root for one they know is going to lose so we'll all talk about it the next day. 

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10 hours ago, Shannon L. said:

I read a little bit on the Final Table forum here and some people mentioned that they thought Top Chef was better, so we tried it and could barely make it through the pilot episode. 

Oh, lords, the first season of Top Chef is horrible.  Season two is worse.  But I stuck with it for the potential and given the TV landscape at the time.  It took a while to shake off the reality show stench and establish itself as a proper cooking competition, after which it recruited a better and better caliber of chefs and judges to in fairly short order become the gold standard.  Even though the "cheftestants" do live together during filming, the footage from the house is minimal - mostly just little 30-second glimpses at the beginning of each episode to hint at the personal dynamics - as it's about the cooking.

It's one of the very few competition shows I watch other than Jeopardy! (I also watch Beat Bobby Flay and occasionally Chopped), and it's my favorite of those by a mile.  If you want to give it another try, I suggest starting with recent seasons (the most recent was an All-Stars competition, and absolutely fantastic!) rather than going back to the beginning.

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Years ago, I met up with a high school classmate of mine. When we were in school together, she was a top singer in the state. She sang leads in musicals, won the highest honors at the choir festivals and was one of two female finalist in the state. So naturally I asked if thought about trying out for American Idol. She told me she already had; she didn't make it through the first round. I admit, I never seen a single episode of American Idol, but hearing that a realized what a fucking sham the audition process was and no matter how cocky some of the terrible contestant were, I really pitted them. If my friend had been practicing before the first round of auditions and you realized that she didn't make it and you did, of course you could think that you were really that good, not realizing it might have been an optics issue instead of a talent one. 

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4 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Years ago, I met up with a high school classmate of mine. When we were in school together, she was a top singer in the state. She sang leads in musicals, won the highest honors at the choir festivals and was one of two female finalist in the state. So naturally I asked if thought about trying out for American Idol. She told me she already had; she didn't make it through the first round. I admit, I never seen a single episode of American Idol, but hearing that a realized what a forking sham the audition process was and no matter how cocky some of the terrible contestant were, I really pitted them. If my friend had been practicing before the first round of auditions and you realized that she didn't make it and you did, of course you could think that you were really that good, not realizing it might have been an optics issue instead of a talent one instead. 

She must not have had a great sob story she was willing to exploit. That show is one of the worst offenders of manufactured emotions, telling the tragic tale of how the singer triumphed in their terrible, horror stricken life to make it to the AI stage!

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9 hours ago, Crs97 said:

Or a DeLorean

Ah, but that's movies. Doesn't count.

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21 hours ago, Bastet said:

Oh, lords, the first season of Top Chef is horrible.  Season two is worse.  But I stuck with it for the potential and given the TV landscape at the time.  It took a while to shake off the reality show stench and establish itself as a proper cooking competition, after which it recruited a better and better caliber of chefs and judges to in fairly short order become the gold standard.  Even though the "cheftestants" do live together during filming, the footage from the house is minimal - mostly just little 30-second glimpses at the beginning of each episode to hint at the personal dynamics - as it's about the cooking.

My UO is that I liked the first season of Top Chef precisely because the contestants were not all professional chefs.

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5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

My UO is that I liked the first season of Top Chef precisely because the contestants were not all professional chefs.

And my (probably*) UO is that for a long time, Harold Dieterle was my favorite reality show winner. It felt earned and satisfying which was very unusual, IMO, back when his season of Top Chef aired.

*I say probably because Top Chef didn't became big until later seasons--ironically probably because of the shitshow that was season 2--the quality of the competition changed and therefore it's not talked about much even when LeAnne comes back.

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I no longer care if the people that do terrible things "have a good heart and won't hurt innocent women and children." They still do terrible things and what makes it worse is that they know perfectly well the things they do are terrible. I believe that Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad not only deserved to be imprisoned by the neo Nazi gang, he didn't deserve to get a fresh start in Alaska and instead should have gone to jail.Don't get me wrong, it was great when Walt mowed down that gang and Jesse strangled Todd with his restraints; Todd might have been a sociopath with no real concept between right or wrong, but he still killed innocent kids and women. I just don't care that Jesse had tears in his eyes when he shot Gale dead, he still shot Gale dead.

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On ‎08‎/‎03‎/‎2020 at 6:46 PM, Irlandesa said:

And my (probably*) UO is that for a long time, Harold Dieterle was my favorite reality show winner. It felt earned and satisfying which was very unusual, IMO, back when his season of Top Chef aired.

*I say probably because Top Chef didn't became big until later seasons--ironically probably because of the shitshow that was season 2--the quality of the competition changed and therefore it's not talked about much even when LeAnne comes back.

He and Stephanie are my favorite winners.

Another Top Chef UO: I hated Anthony Bourdain as a judge.  He was a condescending asshole to most of the contestants.

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18 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

He and Stephanie are my favorite winners.

Another Top Chef UO: I hated Anthony Bourdain as a judge.  He was a condescending asshole to most of the contestants.

I think everything I saw Anthony Bourdain in he came across like a condescending asshole.

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On 8/1/2020 at 9:58 PM, Crs97 said:

I hate the American cooking shows when they get assigned their dish, they don’t get enough time to make it properly, and then halfway through the emcee comes in and announces they have to incorporate some specific ingredient like grapefruit.  Then we have to hear the judges complain that they didn’t fully incorporate the grapefruit into their chocolate soufflé.  One time I want the tables turned and the judges have to play the game and be critiqued on their dishes.

I'm not 100% sure about this, because I only ever have it on as background noise when nothing else is one and so I can periodically look at the food, but I'm pretty sure that on Guy's Grocery Games, former contestants judge, and I think there was one episode where they said the judges were going to compete in the next episode or something.

On 8/2/2020 at 12:34 PM, Mabinogia said:

I HATE knowing contestants backstories because it is almost always just manipulation (by production) to make us root for the one they know is going to win, or to make us root for one they know is going to lose so we'll all talk about it the next day. 

I think the backstories are a waste of time. I'm sympathetic to people's plights, but I'm watching because I want to watch people do the thing, not because I want to hear about people's lives.

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On 8/11/2020 at 10:00 AM, Ambrosefolly said:

I no longer care if the people that do terrible things "have a good heart and won't hurt innocent women and children." They still do terrible things and what makes it worse is that they know perfectly well the things they do are terrible. I believe that Jesse Pinkman from Breaking Bad not only deserved to be imprisoned by the neo Nazi gang, he didn't deserve to get a fresh start in Alaska and instead should have gone to jail.Don't get me wrong, it was great when Walt mowed down that gang and Jesse strangled Todd with his restraints; Todd might have been a sociopath with no real concept between right or wrong, but he still killed innocent kids and women. I just don't care that Jesse had tears in his eyes when he shot Gale dead, he still shot Gale dead.

Thank you! Jesse is the worst. I have no idea where this "he has a good heart" crap came from. He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

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22 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

Of all the things Jesse did (and I liked Jesse as a character overall), this bothered me the most. I mean, I liked Gale and thought what happened to him was awful, but I could see why, from Jesse and Walt's point-of-view, he had to go (self-preservation). But taking advantage of those people at the meeting was just heinous. It also bothered me that Jesse then called Andrea out about it after he found out she had a kid--like he was operating on some higher moral plain after he'd been selling drugs to people at an NA meeting. 

My snapping point with Walt was poisoning a kid. I didn't think he was a great person before that, by any stretch of the imagination, but that bothered me so much I almost stopped watching the show. And hell I'm the type of person who eats during torture scenes,* so it's not like I'm squeamish. 

*filmed ones. I wouldn't eat during a real one. 

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3 minutes ago, Zella said:

Of all the things Jesse did (and I liked Jesse as a character overall), this bothered me the most. I mean, I liked Gale and thought what happened to him was awful, but I could see why, from Jesse and Walt's point-of-view, he had to go (self-preservation). But taking advantage of those people at the meeting was just heinous. It also bothered me that Jesse then called Andrea out about it after he found out she had a kid--like he was operating on some higher moral plain after he'd been selling drugs to people at an NA meeting. 

My snapping point with Walt was poisoning a kid. I didn't think he was a great person before that, by any stretch of the imagination, but that bothered me so much I almost stopped watching the show. And hell I'm the type of person who eats during torture scenes,* so it's not like I'm squeamish. 

*filmed ones. I wouldn't eat during a real one. 

I will say, while I haven't watched every episode of Breaking Bad, I think there was an honesty when they presented Walt's character. The whole point of his arc was that he had become a monster because he kept on making so many "little"concessions to make money, that he went from being the protagonist to the antagonist, as Vince Gilligan intended. When Hank was killed in his attempted to take Walt down and his son wished him dead for it, that finally snapped him out of his "saving the family" mantra. While death might have been a little too good for him as I think he was relieved, at least he did try to make amends and accepted that it was the end and didn't deserve to have everything back.

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13 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I will say, while I haven't watched every episode of Breaking Bad, I think there was an honesty when they presented Walt's character. The whole point of his arc was that he had become a monster because he kept on making so many "little"concessions to make money, that he went from being the protagonist to the antagonist, as Vince Gilligan intended. When Hank was killed in his attempted to take Walt down and his son wished him dead for it, that finally snapped him out of his "saving the family" mantra. While death might have been a little too good for him as I think he was relieved, at least he did try to make amends and accepted that it was the end and didn't deserve to have everything back.

That's very true! Walt had a fascinating character arc. And one of my favorite things in discussing the show is to compare notes with people on when they were finally like, "okay, sir, you are a villain."

My favorite moment in the finale (and I think the most honest moment Walt ever had with himself or anyone) was when Walt admitted that he didn't do what he did for his family, like he always had said. It was for him and, by extension, his own pride. 

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52 minutes ago, Rockstar99435 said:

Thank you! Jesse is the worst. I have no idea where this "he has a good heart" crap came from. He literally went to NA meetings to tempt recovering addicts back into using meth. He was a monster who sold poison to sick people for his own financial gain.

Yeah, I liked Jesse as a character but it did bother me that there seemed to be a popular theory that Jesse was a "Breaking Good" story because he leaned towards Mike over Walt and got self-righteous over kids and people he cared about.

Actually, that's another UO I have. I like Mike but people seemed to change the story so that he was the anti-Walt etc., remembering Walt as ruining the partnership with Gus just because of his arrogance when he actually ruined it by saving Jesse when Gus wanted to kill him. That's when Gus started planning to kill Walt and turning Jesse against him was part of that.

Not that this should be taken as a defense of Walt as a victim or anything, but Jesse and Mike and Gus were not innocent bystander victims of Walt's evil plans.

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5 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Yeah, I liked Jesse as a character but it did bother me that there seemed to be a popular theory that Jesse was a "Breaking Good" story because he leaned towards Mike over Walt and got self-righteous over kids and people he cared about.

Actually, that's another UO I have. I like Mike but people seemed to change the story so that he was the anti-Walt etc., remembering Walt as ruining the partnership with Gus just because of his arrogance when he actually ruined it by saving Jesse when Gus wanted to kill him. That's when Gus started planning to kill Walt and turning Jesse against him was part of that.

Not that this should be taken as a defense of Walt as a victim or anything, but Jesse and Mike and Gus were not innocent bystander victims of Walt's evil plans.

My UO is that I find Mike deadly dull and groan out loud every time he's on screen.

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Hmm... I guess it's my unpopular opinion that Breaking Bad isn't memorable. I watched it just last year, and I don't remember anything you all are posting about!

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Yeah Jessie was a real monster trying to sell to recovering addicts. Not like before when he was selling to regular ones! That's why the episode "Peekaboo" is great because while it shows Jessie being so sweet looking after that little boy whose parents are crazy meth-heads left him home alone but also that the kid is in that environment because of people like him. 

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Two and a Half Men should've ended when either:

  • Angus T. Jones got too old
  • Charlie Sheen left the show

What were they thinking when they got Ashton Kutcher?

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2 hours ago, BradyBunchFan said:

What were they thinking when they got Ashton Kutcher?

Probably that it was a cash cow and he could buy them at least another season. Given what a moron Sheen became I could see them not wanting to end it Just because he left but rather on their own terms. 

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I don't know how unpopular this is, but I just saw the Friends episode where they watch the video of Monica and Rachel's prom and it turns out that when Rachel worried her date had stood her up Ross was going to go with her. So Ross comes down in his tux just in time to see Rachel leaving with her date, who has of course shown up.

Like so much of Ross/Rachel for me, this ep is so off. Clearly we're supposed to feel sorry for Ross as he sadly watches Rachel leave. Rachel herself decides to give him a chance and kisses him, saying "You would have gone with me?" like he was caught on tape doing some wonderful thing. This after she looks teary seeing him so sad in his tux with his flowers he didn't get to give her.

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all. If he had no interest in her then, then yes, he'd be a college guy doing something nice for his sister's friend so she could go to the prom. But since he's always had a crush on Rachel, he's not doing anything for him. It's actually good luck for him to have an excuse to take her to the prom without having to ask her--as evidenced by him being so heartbroken when it turns out she didn't get stood up. And everybody else watching acts like he was robbed of his prom too--including Rachel. It's like Nice Guy 101.

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7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all.

I agree. It's even worse that when Rachel turns arounds and asks him to check that her dress is fastened, he clearly takes the opportunity to try and caress her shoulder, and is visibly disappointed when she runs off to answer the door before he's able to. Ick!

I like the concept of the scene, and think if it was played differently it could come across that he was doing a nice thing to make someone he cared about happy, but his creepy/mopey Nice Guy vibes, and the way his parents are inexplicably disappointed for him (after they had to badger him into agreeing to take her) make it less enjoyable. But I still love the '80s styling on the characters, so that's a silver lining.

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9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I don't know how unpopular this is, but I just saw the Friends episode where they watch the video of Monica and Rachel's prom and it turns out that when Rachel worried her date had stood her up Ross was going to go with her. So Ross comes down in his tux just in time to see Rachel leaving with her date, who has of course shown up.

Like so much of Ross/Rachel for me, this ep is so off. Clearly we're supposed to feel sorry for Ross as he sadly watches Rachel leave. Rachel herself decides to give him a chance and kisses him, saying "You would have gone with me?" like he was caught on tape doing some wonderful thing. This after she looks teary seeing him so sad in his tux with his flowers he didn't get to give her.

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all. If he had no interest in her then, then yes, he'd be a college guy doing something nice for his sister's friend so she could go to the prom. But since he's always had a crush on Rachel, he's not doing anything for him. It's actually good luck for him to have an excuse to take her to the prom without having to ask her--as evidenced by him being so heartbroken when it turns out she didn't get stood up. And everybody else watching acts like he was robbed of his prom too--including Rachel. It's like Nice Guy 101.

I'm glad someone is with me on that one. I didn't think it was a beautiful, heartfelt moment highlighting what a wonderful human being Ross was. I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom. Frankly, if I were Rachel, I wouldn't be touched, I'd be insulted, because if you take the icky, Nice Guy vibes out of the equation, it could also be interpreted as college-aged Ross taking Rachel to the prom out of pity.

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on! 

You know what really, really would have made Ross look wonderful? If he had made some phone calls, found out where Rachel's date was, gave her the news that, don't worry, he's just running late, she's relieved, and then everything is fine. That would have a lot more selfless by comparison, because he isn't taking emotional advantage of his sister's friend!

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The only couple on Friends I ever cared about was Chandler and Monica, but Monica was the only one who seemed to get “real” relationships.  The age thing was icky, but you could see Richard and she loved each other.  Pete was a good match.  I wouldn’t have minded either of them before Chandler.  Courtney Cox had good chemistry with her love interests.

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Gee, all this talk about how Ross even at his supposed 'nicest' was actually rather icky makes me glad I QUIT the show halfway through and have no further interest in seeing so much as another second of it in reruns! For the record, I held out as long as I did for Phoebe's sake until they destroyed her character and made her into one of 'them'. 

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7 minutes ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom.

The scene doesn’t blow me away, but this is unduly harsh.  Ross wasn’t trying to manipulate her.  Her date was late, she was crying that she might have to go alone to prom, and his parents were the ones to suggest that he take her.

I thought the point of the video was for Rachel to see how much he liked her, but she already said in the pilot that she knew so it was a point of confusion for me.

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9 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

But this tape does make Ross look particularly good at all.

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

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1 hour ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

Hey! Them's fightin' words! I love Eeyore!

I kid, of course, I realize "the Eeyore" is a trope. Still, say what you want about Eeyore, but he was always honest about himself and his regard for others. Ross was, in his own words, a "crap weasel".

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4 hours ago, Cherpumple said:

I agree. It's even worse that when Rachel turns arounds and asks him to check that her dress is fastened, he clearly takes the opportunity to try and caress her shoulder, and is visibly disappointed when she runs off to answer the door before he's able to. Ick!

I like the concept of the scene, and think if it was played differently it could come across that he was doing a nice thing to make someone he cared about happy, but his creepy/mopey Nice Guy vibes, and the way his parents are inexplicably disappointed for him (after they had to badger him into agreeing to take her) make it less enjoyable. But I still love the '80s styling on the characters, so that's a silver lining.

Exactly. That moment completely confused me too. It made it seem like his parents were also jumping on the situation to get Ross the date he wanted. Why would they act like it was a shame that Rachel didn't need her pity date? Ross looks openly crestfallen when she's gone and his parents are like, "OMG STOP FILMING! WHERE'S THE BUTTON TO STOP FILMING! STOP! STOP!" like they know they're making the great tragedy worse for Ross.

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I'm glad someone is with me on that one. I didn't think it was a beautiful, heartfelt moment highlighting what a wonderful human being Ross was. I thought it was a pathetic, desperate, slightly creepy gesture to manipulate Rachel into taking him along to the prom. Frankly, if I were Rachel, I wouldn't be touched, I'd be insulted, because if you take the icky, Nice Guy vibes out of the equation, it could also be interpreted as college-aged Ross taking Rachel to the prom out of pity.

And there are plenty of college guys who'd be able to do that without it seeming like pity--but Ross sure wasn't one of them! Also, yes on his inability to fasten her sleeve without looking like he's going to caress her shoulder. The prom night seems like it would have been a disaster. Ut;s pretty OTT too--not only does he look like he's breaking out in a sweat touching her shoulder, but before he goes downstairs he has to take a moment on camera to make himself calm down.

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on!

Yes, it seems like a more normal reaction would have been something like, "You were going to go with me? That's so sweet!" and that's it. And everybody kind of reacts the same way, like they're watching some great tragedy about Ross. As do his parents on the tape. Somehow only Rachel and Monica and their dates somehow unaware of Ross' obvious crush.

2 hours ago, Crs97 said:

The scene doesn’t blow me away, but this is unduly harsh.  Ross wasn’t trying to manipulate her.  Her date was late, she was crying that she might have to go alone to prom, and his parents were the ones to suggest that he take her.

I thought the point of the video was for Rachel to see how much he liked her, but she already said in the pilot that she knew so it was a point of confusion for me.

It does seem like all it shows is that he already liked her, but Rachel says "You would have gone with me?" or something before she kisses him, so it seems like they really are trying to say she's touched by his gesture.

2 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Do you mean it doesn't make him look good? Honestly asking because this contradicts everything else you've posted. (I agree, by the way. Ross was SUCH and EEYORE).

LOL! Yes, I meant doesn't! Unfortunately typo there. Totally meant doesn't.

That said, I totally agree that the best moment of the whole ep is where we first see Ross in all his mid-80s glory because omg that is hilarious. not just the styling but the face he makes too.

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3 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Am I the only one who finds it odd that Rachel is so blown away by this apparently selfless deed that she agrees to give Ross a chance... even though it happened 10 years ago?! So if someone does something, at best, marginally nice for you a decade ago, you can just decide right then and there you want to date them? I mean, don't get me wrong, gratitude is great, but come on! 

Especially since Rachel had decided not to date Ross because of the awful list he made when trying to decide between her and Julie. Sorry, but that prom incident does not override that for me.

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Ross and everyone's reactions to the prom video make sense if you realize that all of the Friends and all of us viewers at the time who were their contemporaries or a few years younger had been raised on a steady diet throughout the '80s and early '90s of John Hughes and John Cusack films where we were supposed to be rooting for the slightly creepy guy to get the girl even if he was crossing lines many of us probably wouldn't have recognized anyway to get there. He just couldn't help it because he felt so deeply. He was driven to act that way and she should be flattered by it. I was just starting college when Ross and Rachel happened and it would be seemingly years before it was widely understood how dysfunctional they really were.

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Don't forget that the prom video is in the same episode where Ross scares off a guy Rachel was interested in by pretending she was a prostitute. When Rachel gets mad at him his excuse is that he's her lobster (stupid Phoebe) and then she lays it on the table and tells him that they aren't going to be together because she's the one who keeps getting screwed over. It should have been a 'Yay Rachel!' moment but is framed as 'Poor Ross' instead. @nodorothyparker is right that this, and their whole relationship, is heavily influenced by 80s movie relationships. Relationship Goals they were not.

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1 hour ago, nodorothyparker said:

Ross and everyone's reactions to the prom video make sense if you realize that all of the Friends and all of us viewers at the time who were their contemporaries or a few years younger had been raised on a steady diet throughout the '80s and early '90s of John Hughes and John Cusack films where we were supposed to be rooting for the slightly creepy guy to get the girl even if he was crossing lines many of us probably wouldn't have recognized anyway to get there. He just couldn't help it because he felt so deeply. He was driven to act that way and she should be flattered by it. I was just starting college when Ross and Rachel happened and it would be seemingly years before it was widely understood how dysfunctional they really were.

I am that age and it's definitely true. I didn't see this ep first run. I wonder if I would have reacted to it differently if I didn't already find so much problematic in their relationship when I saw it. (To stick up for us and our contemporaries, I did always find their whole dynamic terrible for Rachel!)

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I didn't watch Friends when it aired originally and I wasn't really thinking too much about things or their relationship. I watched it in the early 2000s and I distinctly remember feeling rather puzzled why this was played as a poor Ross moment that made Rachel get all mushy.

I think Schwimmer and Aniston had great romantic and friendship chemistry overall, but the characters were just not suited to each other.

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1 hour ago, scarynikki12 said:

Don't forget that the prom video is in the same episode where Ross scares off a guy Rachel was interested in by pretending she was a prostitute. When Rachel gets mad at him his excuse is that he's her lobster (stupid Phoebe) and then she lays it on the table and tells him that they aren't going to be together because she's the one who keeps getting screwed over. It should have been a 'Yay Rachel!' moment but is framed as 'Poor Ross' instead. @nodorothyparker is right that this, and their whole relationship, is heavily influenced by 80s movie relationships. Relationship Goals they were not.

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap. I never like it when characters on shows voice the opinions that the audience is supposed to have (usually about a designated couple) and especially not when all the other four should have been imploring Rachel and Ross to stay as far away from any romantic entanglement with each other as possible. Look what happened when they were together? They almost tore the group apart more than once, putting everyone through every moment of their drama.

They should never have gotten back together, and only did so at the end because the showrunners figured they might as well give the fans what they want, even if it doesn't make any sense.

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1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap. I never like it when characters on shows voice the opinions that the audience is supposed to have (usually about a designated couple) and especially not when all the other four should have been imploring Rachel and Ross to stay as far away from any romantic entanglement with each other as possible. Look what happened when they were together? They almost tore the group apart more than once, putting everyone through every moment of their drama.

They should never have gotten back together, and only did so at the end because the showrunners figured they might as well give the fans what they want, even if it doesn't make any sense.

Yeah, it was amazing that none of their friends ever just went over with them the actual reasons they kept having problems, which mostly came down to not respecting each other that much. This was particularly true of Ross, who did things like humiliating Rachel on her first day at work at the job she actually wants as a career because he just can't see the job as anything more than some guy giving her something because he wants to sleep with her. Ross thinks that's all she's got going for her, so he assumed that's all there was.

Iirc, there's even a later ep that reveals that in high school he and another geek had an "I hate Rachel" club because Ross was just that much of an incel! His position always seemed to be that he loved her despite the fact that she shouldn't have been good enough for him. It was kind of amazing when the show actually made a healthy couple with Monica and Chandler.

Edited by sistermagpie
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1 hour ago, Danny Franks said:

God, I hate that lobster bullshit. The whole idea that two people who had known each other for years, then dated for a little over one year are somehow "meant to be" is such TV crap.

They hadn't even dated at all at this point. This is after the "not Rachem" incident, not after the "we were on a break" incident.  They had nothing invested in any kind of relationship and the idea that their friends were trying to push them together because reasons was stupid.

Having said that, though, the prom incident doesn't bother me that much. It does seem weird that Rachel would find that so wonderful, since others have pointed out that he had a crush on her then, it was obvious and thus wasn't this big altruistic gesture.  But, I don't really find anything all that creepy about it in and of itself.  He was only a year older than her and she apparently was getting stood up.

 

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