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Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

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21 minutes ago, ABay said:

Ditto. I love Ben Linus.

Ah, Ben Linus. What a great character played to perfection. But no, I wouldn't want to spend any time with him if he were a real person. What I look for in a real life person is very different than what makes a fictional character likable to me. I probably wouldn't watch a show about my friends. It is a blast hanging with them, but lord would we be dull to watch. haha

Ben really was one of the best things about Lost

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Oh, Ben Linus...ugh. Boy did he drag down Lost as a show for me. Not the worst sin that show committed, and while he alone didn't ruin the show for me (it was him plus too many other factors combined together), I could have done with much, much, much, much less of him on the show.

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50 minutes ago, Hiyo said:

Oh, Ben Linus...ugh. Boy did he drag down Lost as a show for me. Not the worst sin that show committed, and while he alone didn't ruin the show for me (it was him plus too many other factors combined together), I could have done with much, much, much, much less of him on the show.

Agree- and I could have done with much,much,much,much, much less of the show in general than I  DID watch  til I finally bailed (and am VERY thankful I didn't heed the pleas of my fellow gluttons for punishment/misery loves company cronies who kept trying to guilt me back to watching this mess to the bitter end). If nothing else, this experience taught me to NEVER, EVER trust that any kind of Abrams production won't wind up being  being a totally pointless, audience-jeering bummer! 

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On 5/13/2020 at 1:19 AM, Hiyo said:

Betty was ok. Didn't like her as much as I did Peggy or Joan.

My unpopular opinion is that I didn't hate Megan...

I'm rewatching the show now, and will begin season 4 later today.  I am eager to revisit Meghan and see my reaction to her.  Meghan is a character who I like on paper and I understand why she is there, but I remember not liking Jessica Pare's acting.  

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8 hours ago, Blergh said:

If nothing else, this experience taught me to NEVER, EVER trust that any kind of Abrams production won't wind up being  being a totally pointless, audience-jeering bummer! 

I think that's part of the fundamental problem. With TPTBs having no idea what story they're trying to tell, the actor has to make it all up. It unfairly lands on them because you see the actor every week. The show itself was an absolute mess, but I will give them credit that once they said - we're doing X more shows and that's it - the show did get better. Granted, the plot was dumb af, but there was some internal consistency. I will give them credit for a multicultural cast. And I think you can say that the pilot alone just by itself is the best one in tv. 

But I knew from the jump that nothing was going to hold up just from watching the X Files already, so I didn't have much investment in the show beyond enjoying the locale. 

I like Mad Men even if the characters are awful people. That never bothers me. I liked when Don had his 'honest' moments - showing the daughter where he grew up, etc. 

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On 5/13/2020 at 1:36 AM, Hiyo said:

I have the same reaction to Jerry Stiller (though I loved Anne Meara).

Same. 

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4 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I'm rewatching the show now, and will begin season 4 later today.  I am eager to revisit Meghan and see my reaction to her.  Meghan is a character who I like on paper and I understand why she is there, but I remember not liking Jessica Pare's acting.  

This is exactly how I felt about Megan. But re-watching it makes it better because I know where it's going and so knowing exactly why she's there and what she's doing makes it better.

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I will check out new JJ Abrams shows because he was a producer on Person of Interest, and Carlton Cuse's because of Brisco County, but I will never forgive Lindeloff for the idiocy that beset Lost.

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They should have cancelled The Sopranos after Nancy Marchant died. IMO, what made the early episodes work was the whole screwed up Tony-Livia dynamic and about how Tony could be on top of the world in so many ways and then just crumble when she confronted him. 

And when Livia was gone, there was no one left who could really successfully offset Tony's attempts to claim more power in his life and it turned into another generic mob show.

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On 5/14/2020 at 2:37 PM, ABay said:

I will check out new JJ Abrams shows because he was a producer on Person of Interest, and Carlton Cuse's because of Brisco County, but I will never forgive Lindeloff for the idiocy that beset Lost.

My unpopular opinion about Lost is that it seems like the showrunners of Lost received a massively disproportionate amount of shit in comparison to the issues with the show. JJ because he was only involved (for the most part) in the first season, which was a pretty great season of TV.

Lindeloff and Cuse because in part the big issue was the network seeing dollar signs and trying to stretch the series as long as possible. And in part because the older I get the more I think it was a total baller move for the finale to say the mysteries of the island are pointless bullshit as this is a show about characters and their relationships.

I mean it's not like it was the How I Met Your Mother finale.

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5 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And in part because the older I get the more I think it was a total baller move for the finale to say the mysteries of the island are pointless bullshit as this is a show about characters and their relationships.

That was why I loved the Lost finale so much. I only love it more as the years go by.

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34 minutes ago, Kel Varnsen said:

And in part because the older I get the more I think it was a total baller move for the finale to say the mysteries of the island are pointless bullshit as this is a show about characters and their relationships.

I can't speak to "Lost" specificlly, but I think that's why I haven't gotten too hung up on whether all the mysteries and conspiracies and whatnot on some of the shows I do watch get resolved. I mean, yeah, if you do introduce that kind of stuff into the story, I think it's fair to expect at least a few of those things will be resolved somehow...but for me, so long as I've got characters I'm interested in, and I enjoy seeing how they handle all the weird stuff going on, that's the most important thing for me. If any other storylines turn out good along the way, that's just a nice bonus. 

Plus, it often seems that so many shows that introduce some kind of overarching mystery or conspiracy or whatever wind up just building and building on it to the point it gets so convoluted, and as a result, I don't know that they ever really could resolve and answer everything properly and to everyone's satisfaction anyway. 

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3 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Plus, it often seems that so many shows that introduce some kind of overarching mystery or conspiracy or whatever wind up just building and building on it to the point it gets so convoluted, and as a result, I don't know that they ever really could resolve and answer everything properly and to everyone's satisfaction anyway. 

That's the thing though. TPTBs said they threw everything at the wall, literally. It's a quote from the EW article after the show ended. 

I don't expect a show to have itself planned out from the jump (though B5 for real). However, you have to be honest with your audience.

Breaking Bad and the Sopranos didn't have anything planned out from the start - but they did start each season and storyboarded it out. 

Again, to be fair, when they decided on the fixed number of episodes, they did a good job telling a consistent story. Which is even more egregious because they could have done that from the start. The bottom line is that they had a great *great* idea for the pilot, and didn't have anything after. 

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And in part because the older I get the more I think it was a total baller move for the finale to say the mysteries of the island are pointless bullshit as this is a show about characters and their relationships.

If only they hadn't spent so much time on the mysteries of the Island and kept introducing more and more and more mysteries about the Island, even during the last seasons.

"This is a show about characters and their relationships" seems like a bullshit deflection from the creators of the show for not offering any sort of satisfying resolution to all the mysteries.

I will say the relationships between the characters was what kept me going, although one could argue that was just as due to the chemistry between the cast more than anything else.

And for the most part, I liked most of the characters, minus a few here and there (Ben and especially Jack, who was the worst).

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The bottom line is that they had a great *great* idea for the pilot, and didn't have anything after. 

Pretty much. And yet they, D&C and even JJ, kept doubling down in interviews and saying that everything was planned out from the beginning.

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I never bought that. 

I wish they were just honest about it. I didn't have any skin in the game so I didn't care. 

"It's the journey" is the lamest excuse there is. No, it's not. It never is because then you'd have no plot. Also you wouldn't have pulled the 'we have to go back' if it wasn't about the island. You knew you didn't have enough chops to write a compelling drama without it. 

I mean, I liked the sideways world but wow that was pulled out of nowhere. 

I don't really get the need to insist everything is planned out either. 

 

 

 

 

Edited by DoctorAtomic
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ITA re: calling bullshit on the excuses and I'll add that they did disservice to the characters in 6th season. They became cardboard cut-outs moved around the island in service to the endgame. I mean, Sun was reduced to "I'm looking for my husband. Have you seen my husband? I'm looking for him. My husband, I mean. Have you seen him?" It was worse than Michael and "my boy" in season one. And then they took away her voice completely.

I also thought the characters suffered because the episodes seem to be limited...I don't know how to explain it but the episodes seemed empty compared to previous seasons when more of them interacted. And finally, introducing new characters instead of building to the resolution (what's her name...Jacob's kind of daughter) and wasting an entire episode on Richard, who I liked but come on, an entire freaking episode! And the incredibly dull Jacob and Man in Black story...Not a fan. They were, however, hilarious in the extras.

Lost had so many innovative features and I really enjoyed most of it (late season 3 through season 4 were great TV), and I'll always be thankful for Ben, BUT one of the overarching themes was "don't ask questions, don't be curious, nothing is true" was offensive to me.

Edited by ABay
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8 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If only they hadn't spent so much time on the mysteries of the Island and kept introducing more and more and more mysteries about the Island, even during the last seasons.

"This is a show about characters and their relationships" seems like a bullshit deflection from the creators of the show for not offering any sort of satisfying resolution to all the mysteries.

Except considering the fantasy nature of the show what explanation of the nature of the island could they have come up with that would have made any logical sense that wouldn't have sounded like made up mumbo jumbo? If people wanted an explanation they could have just had Ben come on at the end and say (to quote the Simpsons) "Mysteries of the Island? A wizard did it." Because that would have made as much sense as anything else they could have said.

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My unpopular Lost opinion is that I hated Penny and Desmond and their love story. The actors didn't click for me and the love story felt extremely overwrought and contrived. I just didn't get why they would go through all the did for each other because they just didn't seem all that in love to me. The writers tried, they really wrote their hearts out trying to make it some epic love that lasts through all time or some shit like that, I just didn't buy it at all. 

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I think the point was to not even bother. 

Like the lady whose cancer went away or why Locke could walk. Just leave it. Even the time travel or having to enter the numbers. The island is some lode stone that causes magnetic anomalies like some cracked out Bermuda triangle. That's really all you need. You can still have dharma. 

They insisted on not only throwing in all these details and then braying to the media that everything would add up. Fans took them on good faith. 

It doesn't matter what show you have, you have to play fair with the audience. This just happened on outlander and it just bugs. 

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Lloyd in Space is the most underrated Disney animated show ever (and how about that theme music?!).

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9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

"This is a show about characters and their relationships" seems like a bullshit deflection from the creators of the show for not offering any sort of satisfying resolution to all the mysteries.

Agreed. Of course characters were always important to the show, but it was always set up as the frame being the mysteries of the island. It's not like the weird stuff that happened were things that felt like stuff that was just there to bring out stuff in the characters, as if the island was a spiritual thing. Nor were the relationships the type where "the real treasure was the friends they found along the way!" works as an ending. Especially with random characters dropped etc. They could have tied it all together with the suggestion of something that linked the characters and the mystery without spelling every single thing out, but don't just pretend it was never about the mystery.

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If you make a show about characters, you don't need to dump them on a mysterious tropical island with a polar bear. A suburban setting will do. 

So much crap, they tried to sell with Lost. I stopped watching in season 2 when I realized that I would never learn why there was a polar bear. At least not to my satisfaction. I cared more about that poor animal than any of those characters.

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30 minutes ago, supposebly said:

If you make a show about characters, you don't need to dump them on a mysterious tropical island with a polar bear. A suburban setting will do. 

So much crap, they tried to sell with Lost. I stopped watching in season 2 when I realized that I would never learn why there was a polar bear. At least not to my satisfaction. I cared more about that poor animal than any of those characters.

Agree! I was willing to have the polar bear JUST be a an accidental refugee from a cargo plane that had crash landed on its way to a zoo but no that's not what we got! Oh, and I think it's safe to say had they just ended the whole thing with  Season One finale  with The Hatch being lit up from the inside , most viewers would have been able to use their own imaginations to come up with better and more plausible theories than what we got (and I'm glad I quit before I spent too much time in Season Two). 

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Except considering the fantasy nature of the show what explanation of the nature of the island could they have come up with that would have made any logical sense that wouldn't have sounded like made up mumbo jumbo?

Well, then don't set up so many mysteries and plot points if you don't have a rational explanation behind them.

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braying to the media that everything would add up. Fans took them on good faith. 

Yeah, I was one of those fans, though I realized at some point during late season 2 it was all bullshit and probably would not have the best resolution. At that point, I still cared about most of the cast and the show did have peaks and waves in terms of at least plotting and character interaction (the peaks being seasons 1 to mid seasons 2, last third of season 3 and season 4, and probably the second half of season 5).

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I do think you can plop them on the island and have a character driven show. Jin and Sun were a good example of what you could do with that. 

I didn't really have a problem with the hatch or the numbers. You have to know the show you have and some concept of where you want to go. 

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I pretty much never believed the Lost writers so that probably helped me love it for what it actually was instead of hoping it would turn out how they claimed it would lol.

My other biggest Lost UOs would be that I hated Juliet and I really hated the Juliet/Sawyer relationship.

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16 hours ago, Hiyo said:

If only they hadn't spent so much time on the mysteries of the Island and kept introducing more and more and more mysteries about the Island, even during the last seasons.

"This is a show about characters and their relationships" seems like a bullshit deflection from the creators of the show for not offering any sort of satisfying resolution to all the mysteries.

I will say the relationships between the characters was what kept me going, although one could argue that was just as due to the chemistry between the cast more than anything else.

And for the most part, I liked most of the characters, minus a few here and there (Ben and especially Jack, who was the worst).

Pretty much. And yet they, D&C and even JJ, kept doubling down in interviews and saying that everything was planned out from the beginning.

Exactly. That was a bullshit answer and a cop out. They spent so much time on the mysteries of the island. They spent so much less time on characters. They did have chemistry but I do think that was more due to the cast then what was actually in the story. For example we knew for a long time that Jack and Claire were half-siblings. When did all about the characters finally reveal that fact? Claire's mother told Jack at his father's funeral after they got back on the island when he thought Claire was dead. Why wait so long? In the end it didn't even matter so why even make them siblings? A few characters did get better. But that wasn't what they cared about or was interested in telling. They wanted to focus on the mysteries and psycho Ben. They certainly didn't care about them in season six with that messed up season. And what does make it worse is they told they had a plan for years. Starting with season three they were working towards the end. If you have three seasons to end your story there's really no excuse for it. Other shows have harder times with their finales when they suddenly find out halfway through a season that's the end or a couple episodes before the end leaving them scrambling. It makes more sense then for their to be plot holes or not everything tied up. When you have three seasons? There is no excuse. 

The whole idea that if they just did nothing they would have been happier makes no sense either. So they should have just stayed on the island and not tried to get off, get rescue and go home to their families? What about when the Others were attacking them? I guess they should have done nothing and like Ben and his crew continue to attack and do their horrible scrap? 

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My UO Lost opinion is that the show was fine. Not great, but fine right from the start. The ending was fine. All of it was just fine. It just wasn’t particularly interesting. I filed it under “Nice diversion when nothing else was on.”

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5 hours ago, Hiyo said:

Well, then don't set up so many mysteries and plot points if you don't have a rational explanation behind them.

What would be a rational explanation beyond magic time traveling island? Because beyond that I just don't care. The same way if I don't need and explanation beyond "the Upside Down is an alternate dimension". Or the same way I don't need an explanation beyond "Gandalf has wizard powers because he is a wizard". 

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On 5/12/2020 at 11:34 PM, sistermagpie said:

Pete was my favorite character.

I thought I was the only one who love Pete.

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51 minutes ago, ChromaKelly said:

I thought I was the only one who love Pete.

I also love Pete and Trudy.  His whole character arc over the seven seasons is just perfection.  He is one of those characters you love to hate,  but the show tears him down so you begin to care.  Watching him destroy his marriage to Trudy is infuriating, but seeing them together in the finale was so sweet.  She is the perfect spouse for him--loving, cares about his career,  and willing to call him out when necessary.   

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What would be a rational explanation beyond magic time traveling island? Because beyond that I just don't care.

Well, others (no pun intended) did care. It's fine if you didn't, but there are those of us who wanted more, especially since magic is just a bullshit answer to have to avoid coming up with explaining things. Especially since not every mystery was island related specifically, and also the show itself tried to offer random scientific explanations for certain phenomena, so no, "It was all magic!" just doesn't cut it as an answer.

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Or the same way I don't need an explanation beyond "Gandalf has wizard powers because he is a wizard". 

Because that it what is expected for that genre. You expect for that type of fantasy to have magic in it, not Star Trek style techno babble. And this show was definitely not in the LOTR style fantasy, nor was it ever sold as one.

Now, I'm not expecting Star Trek style techno babble for a show like this, but "it was all magic!" is just a cheap way to avoid having to explain things.

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23 hours ago, ABay said:

ITA re: calling bullshit on the excuses and I'll add that they did disservice to the characters in 6th season. They became cardboard cut-outs moved around the island in service to the endgame. I mean, Sun was reduced to "I'm looking for my husband. Have you seen my husband? I'm looking for him. My husband, I mean. Have you seen him?" It was worse than Michael and "my boy" in season one. And then they took away her voice completely.

I also thought the characters suffered because the episodes seem to be limited...I don't know how to explain it but the episodes seemed empty compared to previous seasons when more of them interacted. And finally, introducing new characters instead of building to the resolution (what's her name...Jacob's kind of daughter) and wasting an entire episode on Richard, who I liked but come on, an entire freaking episode! And the incredibly dull Jacob and Man in Black story...Not a fan. They were, however, hilarious in the extras.

Lost had so many innovative features and I really enjoyed most of it (late season 3 through season 4 were great TV), and I'll always be thankful for Ben, BUT one of the overarching themes was "don't ask questions, don't be curious, nothing is true" was offensive to me.

For the most part I loved the show, even the finale, but the lead up in the final season was terrible.  I completely agree about losing the character bonding (the heart of the show) and instead throwing up a mishmash of convoluted and increasingly nonsensical plot points to get to the end.  Jacob vs the Man in Black was awful.  The giant plug was cringeworthy.  Sayid's soulmate was Shannon and not Nadia.  Oh, please.  (I admit I did love Richard's episode.  He always intrigued me.)  But I think overall the good outweighed the bad.

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Lost was one of those shows that would have been well-served by having a pre-determined number of seasons and a definite ending point.  I thought the first season was really really good, but somewhere in the middle, they kept going off on tangents seemingly just to have something to do to extend the run.  It got better again when there was an end in sight.

I watched all of it.  The end didn't bother me.

 

If Heroes had ended after one season, it would have been just about perfect.

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1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

Lost was one of those shows that would have been well-served by having a pre-determined number of seasons and a definite ending point.  

Oh, for sure. If Lost came out now, it probably would have done that and honestly would probably be better. Back then, they just wanted to milk shows forever but they don't really do that now. Unless you're a DC show on The CW lol.

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14 hours ago, Kel Varnsen said:

What would be a rational explanation beyond magic time traveling island? Because beyond that I just don't care. The same way if I don't need and explanation beyond "the Upside Down is an alternate dimension". Or the same way I don't need an explanation beyond "Gandalf has wizard powers because he is a wizard". 

 

9 hours ago, Hiyo said:

 

Because that it what is expected for that genre. You expect for that type of fantasy to have magic in it, not Star Trek style techno babble. And this show was definitely not in the LOTR style fantasy, nor was it ever sold as one.

 

Also, just have to say..."just because" was rarely a reason for something in Tolkien so his magic had a whole mythological system to go with it. Gandalf has magic because he's one of the Maiar of Valinor etc. etc.

11 hours ago, Ohiopirate02 said:

I also love Pete and Trudy.  His whole character arc over the seven seasons is just perfection.  He is one of those characters you love to hate,  but the show tears him down so you begin to care.  Watching him destroy his marriage to Trudy is infuriating, but seeing them together in the finale was so sweet.  She is the perfect spouse for him--loving, cares about his career,  and willing to call him out when necessary.   

Yup, he's definitely a character capable of learning and growing. He's still a far from perfect person but he didn't have all the faults and improved after sitting with his own mistakes with nobody else to pick him up or blame it on.

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1 hour ago, Browncoat said:

If Heroes had ended after one season, it would have been just about perfect.

Bringing Sylar back after season 1 destroyed the show for me. Once it became clear that the show runners would do anything to keep their favorites around regardless of storyline I realized it wasn't the show for me. Shame. Season 1 was just about perfect. 

I agree that Lost would have benefited greatly from having a set number of seasons. Much of what ruined the storylines and continuity is that they had the story they wanted to tell and were constantly being told to hold out on ending it and fill in more story. No story can survive that. I did see a noticeable change once they announced that they had set an end date. 

 

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18 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

My other biggest Lost UOs would be that I hated Juliet and I really hated the Juliet/Sawyer relationship.

There are ships out there where I can understand their merits, even if I personally don't agree. And there are certainly those where I can (reluctantly) still admit when I think there's chemistry. But Sawyer/Juliet is something I'll go to my grave never understanding. For one thing, I barely bought them as friends let alone in love - at best, I saw them as stuck with each other so might as well make the best of it. But I remember being so disgusted at how OTT cheesy and OOC Sawyer was when they first introduced it that I couldn't wait to read reviews that ripped the writing apart. Instead, it was like a punch to the gut how they were hailed like the best thing to ever happen in LOST.

Sawyer was my favorite character and I'll forever be bitter at the way they neutered him to try to sell me on this horrible ship. And I'll never not be convinced that at least some of the regard was just out of spite because the Jack/Kate/Sawyer triangle was more grating by the day. The other thing is, I HATE the use of time jumps to steamroll character development. I often see whining when a love story is crafted between two characters who had limited on-screen interaction but I'd rather see the limited interaction that led to it than be told two characters are in love because of all this bonding they did for years off-screen. To me, time jumps are often a sign of writer laziness or incompetence.

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4 hours ago, Browncoat said:

If Heroes had ended after one season, it would have been just about perfect.

 

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Bringing Sylar back after season 1 destroyed the show for me. Once it became clear that the show runners would do anything to keep their favorites around regardless of storyline I realized it wasn't the show for me. Shame. Season 1 was just about perfect. 

I got sucked into watching this yesterday (yes I watched the entire first season!) and only suffered through it for the pretty that 🥰❤️🥰Sendhil Ramamurthy🥰😘🥰, Adrian Pasdar, and Milo Ventimiglia, and Santiago Cabrera brought.

What prevented me from enjoying it 100% was the same ass lame, rinse/larger/repeat of having Sylar win every damn fucking time. I find it tiresome. I only watched the second season premiere to make sure Nathan and Peter survived.

The title was such a ...misnomer for me. It was dark and twisted and apparently every damn body had an ability.

But 🥰🥰❤️❤️🥰🥰Sendhil🥰🥰❤️❤️🥰🥰

Nitpick: they did such good casting for all the  Indians, and Erik Avari was the best they could come up with to play Chandra Suresh?🙄😒😒😒

Edited by GHScorpiosRule
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32 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

But 🥰🥰❤️❤️🥰🥰Sendhil🥰🥰❤️❤️🥰🥰

This. A million times this. 

That man is a work of art!

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3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Oh, for sure. If Lost came out now, it probably would have done that and honestly would probably be better. Back then, they just wanted to milk shows forever but they don't really do that now. Unless you're a DC show on The CW lol.

I'd even say they probably would have done 10-12 episode seasons to make it tighter. 

I also wonder if they ever had a show bible or continuity editor. 

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I also wonder if they ever had a show bible or continuity editor. 

I'm guessing no, to both.

 

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I know they just died, and they're considered comedy legends, but I did not care for Jerry Stiller or Fred Willard.

I vaguely remember my parents watching Stiller & Meara as a comedy team, and I think they were funny then, but I hated Jerry Stiller on "Seinfeld" and "King of Queens." He played, mean, nasty old men and neither of those roles were as funny as the creators seem to think they were. (As an aside, Jerry Seinfeld was on "CBS Sunday Morning" today, and the interviewer called his show a "classic" -- I think the show is unwatchable now -- it probably doesn't help that Seinfeld the comedian has shown he's an asshole time and time again.)

I never particularly liked Fred Willard either. I always thought there was something creepy about him and the characters he played.

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6 minutes ago, SmithW6079 said:

(As an aside, Jerry Seinfeld was on "CBS Sunday Morning" today, and the interviewer called his show a "classic" -- I think the show is unwatchable now -- it probably doesn't help that Seinfeld the comedian has shown he's an asshole time and time again.)

The next time Jerry Seinfeld pisses and moans about the younger generation, someone should say to him,

"Hey, Jerry, remember that time you dated a 17-year-old when you were pushing 40?"

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1 hour ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

The next time Jerry Seinfeld pisses and moans about the younger generation, someone should say to him,

"Hey, Jerry, remember that time you dated a 17-year-old when you were pushing 40?"

I was watching an episode of "Mystery Science Theater" yesterday, and there was a little short film about personal hygiene beforehand that the crew watched.

During the scene where a little girl was going through her routine of how to look nice and clean and whatnot, one of the guys goes, "She's getting ready for her date with Jerry Seinfeld!" 

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3 hours ago, DoctorAtomic said:

I also wonder if they ever had a show bible or continuity editor. 

I think the writers always claimed they had a show bible but that was pretty obviously not the case lol. 

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My UO of LOST is that I loved Jack.  I didn’t care for Sawyer, esp aft he screwed up the killing of the Marshall, and Jack had to put the guy out of his misery.  In fact, Jack was always trying to make everyone else happy, rather than himself.  He only landed on the island because his mother guilted him into going aft his father.

Jack sacrificed himself to get his companions home, and that death scene, with Vincent, is one of the saddest (aft Jin/Sun & Elinor’s son - can’t remember his name), and the best way to end the show.

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5 hours ago, SmithW6079 said:

I vaguely remember my parents watching Stiller & Meara as a comedy team, and I think they were funny then, but I hated Jerry Stiller on "Seinfeld" and "King of Queens." He played, mean, nasty old men and neither of those roles were as funny as the creators seem to think they were

On Seinfeld I thought his character made sense in terms of Georges character because it was obvious he had a screwed up childhood. 

Interestingly though his Seinfeld character wasn't the creators vision of it at all and was pretty much self created by Stiller.  First of all he was not the original choice for the role and second it seems the creators had a completely different view of the dad as a meek, do as you are told yes man to the wife.  It wasn't working though and he created the persona himself, which seemed to work better. 

https://www.esquire.com/entertainment/tv/a32433516/jerry-stiller-seinfeld-frank-costanza-original-actor-origin-story/

Another article mentioned he was not even on Seinfeld until season Five, which I find baffling. 

He was not quite as gruff on King of Queens as Seinfeld but they are pretty similar. 

 

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