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Party of One: Unpopular TV Opinions

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10 hours ago, ABay said:

Of those who think a show is "too political," I'd like to ask what would make it "just political enough"? Where's the perfect Goldilocks point between "too" and "not political enough"? Is it possible for a show to be "not political enough"? Or does "too" political really mean "political at all"? My impression is that "too political" means either "making me think about things I don't want to think about" or "does not agree with my own politics".

Exactly Did they think Murphy Brown wouldn't make fun at Donald Trump's expense?

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8 hours ago, kathyk24 said:

Exactly Did they think Murphy Brown wouldn't make fun at Donald Trump's expense?

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I've never liked Murphy Brown.  I think I was in college when it was first on, and I just found her to be so obnoxious and holier-than-thou.  I couldn't stand her.  I did like Frank and Miles.  Corky was a bit too upbeat and perky, but OK for what she was.

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On 1/4/2019 at 5:02 PM, Annber03 said:

Yes. I have criticisms of the shows I watch, too-no show will ever be completely perfect, after all-and I'll share them when need be. I have no problem with discussing when a storyline or an episode or whatever didn't click for whatever reason.

But I can also still find plenty to enjoy about those shows as well, stuff that keeps me watching. If I'm at the point where I can't find a single good thing to say about a show, I'm thinking that's a sign I should probably go find something else to watch. 

Agreed! I used to be a completionist, or if you prefer, I had OCD about watching a show from beginning to end, but no more -  it’s really not worth the time.  It is one thing to keep tuning in if a few episodes, or even an arc, don’t float my boat, but when a show becomes a chore, it’s time to pick up the remote. 

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I am so so disappointed that Modern Family’s Haley ended up with Dillon. I really hoped she’d do better. I just find him too stupid to like.

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2 hours ago, Chas411 said:

I am so so disappointed that Modern Family’s Haley ended up with Dillon. I really hoped she’d do better. I just find him too stupid to like.

See, I think the opposite.  The are perfectly matched, in my opinion - both not too bright.  I hated Andy, I saw no chemistry whatsoever.

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I liked Andy especially in the beginning but think they lathered on too much drama and it ended up ruining the relationship before it really got going. I liked Dillon in the brig inning but man did they dumb him down beyond belief.

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On 1/5/2019 at 7:57 AM, Katy M said:

I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion, but I've never liked Murphy Brown. I think I was in college when it was first on, and I just found her to be so obnoxious and holier-than-thou.

Sounds like we're around the same age.  I never liked it either...in fact if not for PTV I wouldn't even know there was a reboot.

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8 minutes ago, ByTor said:

Sounds like we're around the same age.  I never liked it either...in fact if not for PTV I wouldn't even know there was a reboot.

I guess it was always preachy, but I found the original ok.  I started watching the reboot in the hope of seeing something entertaining.  Just painful!  Bad writing and the acting was horrendous!

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54 minutes ago, Tanichka said:

I guess it was always preachy, but I found the original ok.

Yeah, I mean I never liked it but I didn't actively dislike it.

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I am sick to death of Bradley Cooper & Lady Gaga. Especially of Lady Gaga & her whole "I felt so nurtured" routine & I haven't even seen the movie.

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Agreed. While I expected it from her it’s put me off him massively. I’m glad most tv and awards have started making fun of them and calling the act out. Namely that stupid thousand people in a room spiel. 

I feel like Bradley has only just realised he’s not in on the joke since award season started and has now started to pull away from the whole act. 

I genuinely think she’s trying to mirror the relationship of their characters and be all ingenue about the whole experience because she thinks it’ll help her with the awards. It’s just failing because she’s Lady fucking Gaga.

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On 1/9/2019 at 7:50 AM, Chas411 said:

I am so so disappointed that Modern Family’s Haley ended up with Dillon. I really hoped she’d do better. I just find him too stupid to like.

I really thought when they brought Dillon back he was the one being killed off. I didn't think killing Dede was that big of a deal. 

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This one is kind of weird. If anyone has watched the 90s British sitcom Keeping Up Appearances...this used to be my absolute favorite show growing up and now looking back at it, I realize why. Hyacinth was supposed to be a mockable character, but you know what, I actually relate to her in a way and did back then. My family was/is very dysfunctional and my mom was an abuser. Everything was constant fights and trashiness. It was like an episode of COPS with my dad, mom, and brother all fighting and sometimes the actual cops and social workers did come. Holidays and special occasions were the worst because that always seemed to be when the worst fights broke out. To this day I still don't really know how to celebrate holidays and those days always feel empty to me. So many times I would have a great day and then come home and it would be drama and ruin everything. We also weren't poor to the extent of not being able to afford basic needs, but we did have to live in a tiny shabby apartment with roaches and alcoholic and kleptomaniac neighbors, wear off-brand clothes (and my mom always made me wear the most unflattering and ill-fitting clothes to control me), there were constant fights about money and it was a constant source of stress, etc. I always hoped that one day I would get away from it and have a nice house and wear nice clothes and have dinner parties and so on. Well that didn't quite happen and not only do I have lasting issues from growing up in my family, but their personal problems still continue to negatively impact my life to this day and I constantly am expected to solve their problems such as homelessness, preventable HIV scares, and addiction.

So I could relate to Hyacinth trying to rise above the circumstances of her background but always being dragged down by the rest of her dysfunctional family, and also being dysfunctional herself. The BBC even did a prequel recently showing her as a teenager and the backstory was that her dad was an alcoholic and her mom abandoned the family and they grew up in poverty, but she got a job working as a maid in a rich person's house and was always trying to get the family to better itself to the point of becoming in denial about her background and family's circumstances. You can see how she ended up the way she did and how she wanted to be "normal" so badly but didn't know what that entailed since nobody ever taught her and focused on the wrong external things instead of trying to become a better person. So it sort of destroyed her and turned her into this vain and narcissistic person who was disliked by everyone. Perhaps that is an overly tragic interpretation of the character but I think a lot of comedies have tragedy behind them.

Edited by BuyMoreAndSave
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I never liked Anthony Bourdain, not even back when he was a guest judge on Top Chef a lot.  I never thought he was clever or witty.  I've always thought he was a smug, arrogant douchebag who considered himself better than everyone else.  (Doesn't mean I can't sympathize with his family's distress after his suicide, though.)

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I just started watching Anne With An E on Netflix, and I really like it.

I should mention that I didn't grow up reading the books, or watching the 1985 miniseries with Megan Follows, so I don't have any nostalgia tied to this story.  I only recently listened to the first book on Audible, but I probably won't bother with the subsequent books in the series, since I found the story to be a bit too precious and twee, for my taste.  Which is why I am getting a lot of enjoyment out of the dark and gritty Netflix adaptation.

I don't love every change that is made (I could have done without the bullies at the orphanage, or the pedophile Anne meets at the train station), but I like how the show depicts how adopting a traumatized orphan would really go down, instead of having each episode center around the vignettes from the book, which grew pretty boring and repetitive to me, after a while.  That would have been fine for a kids' series, but I like how the 'real world' aspect of this show broadens the material, somewhat.  I have read a lot of negative reviews for this, though, so I wonder if anyone likes it, but me.

Now, if only we could get a Little House On the Prairie series that stays closer to the books, rather than the 1970's atrocity, with raping mimes.  That would be nice.

Edited by Shakma
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15 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

This one is kind of weird. If anyone has watched the 90s British sitcom Keeping Up Appearances...this used to be my absolute favorite show growing up and now looking back at it, I realize why. Hyacinth was supposed to be a mockable character, but you know what, I actually relate to her in a way and did back then. My family was/is very dysfunctional and my mom was an abuser. Everything was constant fights and trashiness. It was like an episode of COPS with my dad, mom, and brother all fighting and sometimes the actual cops and social workers did come. Holidays and special occasions were the worst because that always seemed to be when the worst fights broke out. To this day I still don't really know how to celebrate holidays and those days always feel empty to me. So many times I would have a great day and then come home and it would be drama and ruin everything. We also weren't poor to the extent of not being able to afford basic needs, but we did have to live in a tiny shabby apartment with roaches and alcoholic and kleptomaniac neighbors, wear off-brand clothes (and my mom always made me wear the most unflattering and ill-fitting clothes to control me), there were constant fights about money and it was a constant source of stress, etc. I always hoped that one day I would get away from it and have a nice house and wear nice clothes and have dinner parties and so on. Well that didn't quite happen and not only do I have lasting issues from growing up in my family, but their personal problems still continue to negatively impact my life to this day and I constantly am expected to solve their problems such as homelessness, preventable HIV scares, and addiction.

So I could relate to Hyacinth trying to rise above the circumstances of her background but always being dragged down by the rest of her dysfunctional family, and also being dysfunctional herself. The BBC even did a prequel recently showing her as a teenager and the backstory was that her dad was an alcoholic and her mom abandoned the family and they grew up in poverty, but she got a job working as a maid in a rich person's house and was always trying to get the family to better itself to the point of becoming in denial about her background and family's circumstances. You can see how she ended up the way she did and how she wanted to be "normal" so badly but didn't know what that entailed since nobody ever taught her and focused on the wrong external things instead of trying to become a better person. So it sort of destroyed her and turned her into this vain and narcissistic person who was disliked by everyone. Perhaps that is an overly tragic interpretation of the character but I think a lot of comedies have tragedy behind them.

Whoa! That's a rather poignant interpretation (and I appreciate your sharing what you've had to go through).  While I didn't think that the prequel really did the show justice (e.g. the prequel Daisy was far too industrious and bitter compared to the lazy but cheerfully friendly KUA Daisy etc.) I have to admit that it did highlight WHY Hyacinth craved getting away from her sad family existence in favor of what she considered the glamorous upper crust. 

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@Shakma, I really like Anne with an E too - and I'm someone who's read the series often enough to quote passages from memory.

Interestingly, it was The Lego Movie that really got me thinking about my reactions to those who take material and adapt them to new mediums, audiences, eras, etc. I decided I didn't want to be a Lord Business who insists on all adaptations of a work to follow the exact same canonical beats every time; I want every adaptation to use the pieces of the work to create their own vision. So I'm trying to judge AWaE on its own merits without constantly comparing them to the books.

it helps that for me, Anne is like she stepped directly out of the books even though she may be in new stories. In fact - and here comes a *really* unpopular opinion - as far as verisimilitude is concerned, she blows Megan Follow's rendition out of the water for me.

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I hate 'reality' shows that seem more like circus sideshows than actually making any attempt to educate the viewers- especially those that exploit feature legal minors! I've never seen it but I can't help but think that the guardians and network REALLY need to be called on the carpet for greenlighting I Am Jazz. Why should it be anyone else's business what a minor's sexual identity is? I can't help but think the individual the show is centered upon will look back upon this with intense regret! I mean, if a legal adult wants to opt for this knowing they may later on risk feeling as though they could kick themselves for their judgment call, that's one thing but I think minors need the chance to grow up to learn what they need to know about themselves without a glaring spotlight showing things that could be used to hamper future employment, finding future worthwhile companions,etc. 

Edited by Blergh · Reason: ing
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On 1/4/2019 at 12:21 AM, Annber03 said:

LOL, I like that :D. 

I watch "Criminal Minds", and I've seen complaints from people talking about that show getting too political sometimes, too, with some of the cases they investigate. And I'm sitting here thinking, "...you guys get that the BAU is part of the FBI, which is part of the federal government, right?" Kinda hard to avoid politics in that setting, I would think. 

I honestly can say I have never once thought of Criminal Minds as political... Wow. I'm gonna need a moment.

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The funny thing is, it's really not. Most of the time they're pretty apolitical-they mainly just focus on their usual serial killers and leave it at that. But there was an episode a couple seasons back where they had to interview a group of people who were into a lot of wild conspiracy theories to try and solve a murder, and that apparently bothered some viewers, given the particular types of conspiracies the show was calling out. And then I remember they did an episode a few years before that about a guy who was very deeply and negatively affected by the conversion therapy he was forced to undergo, and there were a few commentators complaining about the show having "all this gay stuff" in it and whatnot. 

There might've been more examples elsewhere, too, I dunno-they've also done an episode dealing with militia people, but i wasn't part of the fandom at the time that episode originally aired, so don't know if that one garnered any controversy), but those are the two big ones I remember. But yeah, even so, I mean, there are criminals whose crimes are politically motivated that the FBI has to deal with, and like I said, they're a government agency, so I just don't get how people expect them to not touch on politics at some point. 

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On The Connors, I don't care if they never mention Andy or Fred.  Or if they've been retocnned out.  I'm not even thinking of them when watching.  Same with Jerry.  I'm quite fine if they don't exist in this reboot.

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3 hours ago, aquarian1 said:

On The Connors, I don't care if they never mention Andy or Fred.  Or if they've been retocnned out.  I'm not even thinking of them when watching.  Same with Jerry.  I'm quite fine if they don't exist in this reboot.

I mostly share this UO.

Jerry existed in the Roseanne revival, so I assume he continues to exist on The Conners spin-off, and I unequivocally do not care that they haven't mentioned him again, nor do I ever wonder about him. 

Fred and Andy being apparently retconned out does annoy me in that the glaring similarities between Becky's pregnancy and Jackie's now apparently not existing is something I can't help but think of every time the two of them discuss the pregnancy or Emilio.  So in those scenes, I do think of it.  But I'm not distracted enough to be taken out of the scene, and for the rest of Jackie's scenes I never even think about them.  So on the whole I'm fine with them not existing -- it's a little weird, yes, but it's a minor thing in the grand scheme of my viewing experience.

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On 1/17/2019 at 11:15 AM, Blergh said:

I hate 'reality' shows that seem more like circus sideshows than actually making any attempt to educate the viewers- especially those that exploit feature legal minors! I've never seen it but I can't help but think that the guardians and network REALLY need to be called on the carpet for greenlighting I Am Jazz. Why should it be anyone else's business what a minor's sexual identity is? I can't help but think the individual the show is centered upon will look back upon this with intense regret! I mean, if a legal adult wants to opt for this knowing they may later on risk feeling as though they could kick themselves for their judgment call, that's one thing but I think minors need the chance to grow up to learn what they need to know about themselves without a glaring spotlight showing things that could be used to hamper future employment, finding future worthwhile companions,etc. 

My wife watches a lot of those tlc reality shows and I always feel bad for the kids on them. I mean at least kid actors working on say a series have a bunch of legal protections like limited hours on set, required schooling and money being set aside in trust. But I have a feeling kids in reality shows don't get anything close to any of that. My biggest hope is that when one of the kids from one of those shows grows up they find some brutal way to rebel or get payback. Because their parents got paid a bunch of money and got famous by making a tv spectacle out of their kid's temper tantrums, potty training, weird adolescence and everything else that gets caught on camera.

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Speaking of Roseanne. . .

While I was never a fan of the show in general, I have a bizarre soft spot for the godawful final season, especially when it's explained that it's a fantasy Roseanne was having.

I really wish Without A Trace had ended with Samantha and Martin together.

(Is that even unpopular?)

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16 hours ago, Camille said:

Speaking of Roseanne. . .

While I was never a fan of the show in general, I have a bizarre soft spot for the godawful final season, especially when it's explained that it's a fantasy Roseanne was having.

I really wish Without A Trace had ended with Samantha and Martin together.

(Is that even unpopular?)

I don't know if Samantha and Martin together is popular or not but I wish they had too. I really liked them together they had good chemistry. I didn't like her and Jack together although I might have if they hasn't started up when he was still married. I hated her ending up randomly with her baby's daddy despite it being a one night stand and never dated afterwards. They didn't even see each other again until he changed his mind about apart of Finn's life. No they suddenly fell in love when she was taking care of him after he was injured in the car accident they were both in. Why can't any of these one night stands or exs just remain that or co-parent? Why do they always have to get together? Why can't they date other people? End up with other people and build a good co-parenting or joint custody with each other?

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11 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I didn't like her and Jack together although I might have if they hasn't started up when he was still married. I hated her ending up randomly with her baby's daddy despite it being a one night stand and never dated afterwards.

EXACTLY. I didn't like her and Jack either, but even they would have made more sense than her and the other guy, especially considering that she spent SEVEN years--the run  of the show--pining away for him. Sweet, cute Martin--who she's known and been attracted to for two years--isn't enough to make her get over Jack, but some guy whose name she couldn't even remember is?

Like I wrote in the "tropes" forum, I hate the Strangled By The Red String trope. Don't have two people have zero interaction one day and then tell us that they're madly in love with each other the next.

Edited by Camille
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I don't know how unpopular this is, but I hate how raunchy a lot of comedy "has" to be. It comes across as childish. I get realism and not pulling punches but a lot of time it just screams, "Look! Bad words, sex and bodily functions! How groundbreaking we are!" It especially comes across worse with women. Not only is it sexist that women seem to have to be baudy to be taken seriously, it just comes across and trying harder with the added subtext of "Look! I'm a women who swears and talks about sex. How outlandish am I?" It drives me as crazy as "adorkable" or "Mary Sue" characters.

Edited by MadyGirl1987
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I stopped watching The Good Place, largely due to Eleanor/Chidi just incredibly not working as a 'will they, won't they' relationship (there was also the fact that I just felt the first couple of episodes of season 3 were a bit off). I find them a lot of fun as characters, but incredibly bland, toothless and predictable as a potential couple. There is absolutely no heat or tension between them. And now I just read that:

Spoiler

Season 3 ends with them wiping Chidi's mind, just to prolong that 'ship.

So... yeah. I feel like I made the right choice.

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I like the Good Place but i think it’s because it’s easy and quick viewing. I couldn’t tell you what’s going on half the time though.

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I've said it before, I'll say it again: I never thought Joey on Friends was the "heart and soul" of the group. Aside from having a frightening lack of intelligence, Joey always struck me as the type who bullied nerds in his youth and would creep on girls once he was middle-aged. It doesn't help that I never, ever, ever found Matt le Blanc attractive: the bulging eyes, overbite, orange skin, greasy hair, pot belly (was Friends indirectly addressing how male actors can be more casual about their appearance and dieting?), sloppy wardrobe, I just did not get the appeal.

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Agree, Wiendish! Oh, and I had the misfortune of attempting to watch the first episode of the spin off Joey in which on the ride from the airport, the driver told Joey she had had breast implants- and he asked to feel them (and this was his SISTER )!UGH! YUCK !!Who greenlit that line and why didn't Mr.  le Blanc tell them NO WAY would he say that and since he was the star of the show they'd have to dump it?! Just nasty and no I couldn't watch anymore after that! 

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I never really watched it either. Maybe if we were pregaming before going out and someone had it on. I know of the characters, but that's it. 

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38 minutes ago, Blergh said:

Agree, Wiendish! Oh, and I had the misfortune of attempting to watch the first episode of the spin off Joey in which on the ride from the airport, the driver told Joey she had had breast implants- and he asked to feel them (and this was his SISTER )!UGH! YUCK !!Who greenlit that line and why didn't Mr.  le Blanc tell them NO WAY would he say that and since he was the star of the show they'd have to dump it?! Just nasty and no I couldn't watch anymore after that! 

And yet Joey had the nerve to get pissy at Chandler for having a drunken fling with one of his (Joey's) sisters?! What a hypocrite!

Yes, what Chandler did was icky and problematic, but it's not as if he took advantage of her, she wasn't underaged, and he did apologize (got punched out for his trouble, so I think that makes him pretty squared in the karma department).

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7 hours ago, Blergh said:

Agree, Wiendish! Oh, and I had the misfortune of attempting to watch the first episode of the spin off Joey in which on the ride from the airport, the driver told Joey she had had breast implants- and he asked to feel them (and this was his SISTER )!UGH! YUCK !!Who greenlit that line and why didn't Mr.  le Blanc tell them NO WAY would he say that and since he was the star of the show they'd have to dump it?! Just nasty and no I couldn't watch anymore after that! 

Some people just aren’t bothered by that. My brother once got a Prince Albert piercing and wanted to show me. I politely declined with an “ewwww no”.

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Not sure how unpopular this is but here goes.  Show canon is show canon.  It doesn't matter what I or anyone else may think about when a show should ended, how horrible it got after they killed off so and so, or how they should have handled situation X.  Some folks will say "well, in my version this is what went down."  No.  There is no other version.  Not saying people have to like everything that happens on their favorite shows but that doesn't change that it did.  I hated when 24 killed of Michelle.  Hated it.  Stopped watching.  But there is no kiddo82 version where she's still alive.  Fan fic is one thing if that's what a person is into but I swear I've read things where a person is almost insistent that his or her take on events is now part of the canon because he or she wills it so. 

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8 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Not sure how unpopular this is but here goes.  Show canon is show canon.  It doesn't matter what I or anyone else may think about when a show should ended, how horrible it got after they killed off so and so, or how they should have handled situation X.  Some folks will say "well, in my version this is what went down."  No.  There is no other version.  Not saying people have to like everything that happens on their favorite shows but that doesn't change that it did.  I hated when 24 killed of Michelle.  Hated it.  Stopped watching.  But there is no kiddo82 version where she's still alive.  Fan fic is one thing if that's what a person is into but I swear I've read things where a person is almost insistent that his or her take on events is now part of the canon because he or she wills it so. 

I think you can decide in your head whatever you want to.  It's not real life and therefore your beliefs aren't going to hurt anyone, true or not.  But, if you're getting into arguments about it, that's just ridiculous.  Because like you said, what happened is what happened.

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2 hours ago, Katy M said:

I think you can decide in your head whatever you want to.  It's not real life and therefore your beliefs aren't going to hurt anyone, true or not.  But, if you're getting into arguments about it, that's just ridiculous.  Because like you said, what happened is what happened.

Yeah, sometimes I treat stuff I don't like like it's Pam's dream on Dallas (hello X-Files) but I'd never think others should think that too. That's just weird. It's like the people that insist that a couple is together on a show because of all the subtext. While it might be fun to discuss it, it's not canon just because you wish it so. That is what fanfic is for. I love fanfic.

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And to clarify, we, myself included, probably all do it.  "I wish this had happened", "It would be better if they did this", or "In my head so and so lived happily ever after." I get that and there's nothing wrong with that but there is this extra level of persistance I've come across where I'm like "But dude, that's not what actually happened!"  

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35 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

And to clarify, we, myself included, probably all do it.  "I wish this had happened", "It would be better if they did this", or "In my head so and so lived happily ever after." I get that and there's nothing wrong with that but there is this extra level of persistance I've come across where I'm like "But dude, that's not what actually happened!"  

  Somewhat along those lines, there are times a character  will say/ do things that other characters on the show express a POV re an MO that seems TOTALLY contrary to what I  as a viewer have 'gotten' via watching what was depicted- and there have been times( in my non Previously TV life )I've expressed a POV contrary to the show's 'party line' and gotten a 'how dare you THINK differently than what the other characters, the show itself has said why so-and-so did such-and-such'. Excuse me for actually attempting to use my brain instead of just letting myself be spoon fed. 

Edited by Blergh
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20 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

Not sure how unpopular this is but here goes.  Show canon is show canon.  It doesn't matter what I or anyone else may think about when a show should ended, how horrible it got after they killed off so and so, or how they should have handled situation X.  Some folks will say "well, in my version this is what went down."  No.  There is no other version.  Not saying people have to like everything that happens on their favorite shows but that doesn't change that it did.  I hated when 24 killed of Michelle.  Hated it.  Stopped watching.  But there is no kiddo82 version where she's still alive.  Fan fic is one thing if that's what a person is into but I swear I've read things where a person is almost insistent that his or her take on events is now part of the canon because he or she wills it so. 

Shameless!

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On 1/27/2019 at 9:59 AM, Blergh said:

  Somewhat along those lines, there are times a character  will say/ do things that other characters on the show express a POV re an MO that seems TOTALLY contrary to what I  as a viewer have 'gotten' via watching what was depicted- and there have been times( in my non Previously TV life )I've expressed a POV contrary to the show's 'party line' and gotten a 'how dare you THINK differently than what the other characters, the show itself has said why so-and-so did such-and-such'. Excuse me for actually attempting to use my brain instead of just letting myself be spoon fed. 

"Bitch thinks she's better than me...I'm still a warrior...Bitch is going to see a change...I'll take anything you can throw at me if it'll get me what I need to take care of the slayer...Give her what's coming to her" does not translate to "I want to earn my soul back so I can be a good boyfriend to Buffy." I don't care how many interviews the show writers do. Spike absolutely got tricked into getting his soul. Having him and every other character argue that he did it all on purpose because he loves Buffy so much is a bunch of crap.

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Characters with flaws are realistic, every character being painfully unlikable isn't. Not only is it not realistic (or relatable), it doesn't make a show "prestige" tv, either. When certain people describe a tv drama as cerebral, revolutionary, an honest look at human interactions, etc., I know that means I'm going to hate probably every character.

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35 minutes ago, slf said:

Characters with flaws are realistic, every character being painfully unlikable isn't. Not only is it not realistic (or relatable), it doesn't make a show "prestige" tv, either. When certain people describe a tv drama as cerebral, revolutionary, an honest look at human interactions, etc., I know that means I'm going to hate probably every character.

Characters can have flaws as long as they're likeable. I've always said that likeable characters go a long way to making me more forgiving of things like stupid plot holes. I like the characters on The Good Place so much that I don't even care about the mechanics of the show. I just enjoy spending time with them (not until next year, sob). Same with Agents of SHIELD. 

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2 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Characters can have flaws as long as they're likeable. I've always said that likeable characters go a long way to making me more forgiving of things like stupid plot holes. I like the characters on The Good Place so much that I don't even care about the mechanics of the show. I just enjoy spending time with them (not until next year, sob). Same with Agents of SHIELD. 

Agree.  As long as I care about what happens to the characters on a show (or sometimes even one character as long he or she has a significant role) I tend to forgive a lot.  In reflection on most of the shows I've given up on or become disinterested in, it's usually the ones where there is no one I want to root for.  

 

On that note, I hate the notion that a typically good protagonist/hero character who does something wrong or goes through a "grey" period is a hypocrite or no better than the antagonist who has spent the entire series being a villain.  People aren't perfect and one or two missteps (depending on what they are) don't negate a life spent doing good just as a few good deeds don't negate a life spent being nefarious.  It's usually just used as an excuse by fans and show runners alike to inflate the presence of an admittedly charismatic villain who should have been killed off years ago.

Edited by kiddo82
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I agree. I have a hard time with the idea that "people" can't ever go through difficult times, or bad episodes, or generally act like a-holes when they are in pain. Actual people all have dark marks on their records, times when their behavior was bad. The idea that characters aren't allowed to have the same "dark nights of the soul," is confusing to me. 

A recent example to me was the outcry over Maze's behavior on Lucifer. I hated what the character was doing, but I didn't think it was some crazy, out of character behavior. She's a demon who has never felt emotion in her life who felt abandoned and betrayed by every one of the beings she'd developed feelings for. So she did some super horrible dark stuff, because she's a demon and she fell back on what she knows. And when the chips were down, she snapped out of it and still came through. Just like happens in real life all the time, minus the demon bit.  

People don't always react well to difficulty. The idea that they somehow should have to is lost on me. 

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22 hours ago, Minneapple said:

Characters can have flaws as long as they're likeable. I've always said that likeable characters go a long way to making me more forgiving of things like stupid plot holes. I like the characters on The Good Place so much that I don't even care about the mechanics of the show. I just enjoy spending time with them (not until next year, sob). Same with Agents of SHIELD. 

For me, they don't even all have to be likeable in some way, as long as someone on the show is.

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