S02.E02: Woman Of The Year?

[Bob Loblaw]

Caitlyn is a vapid asshole. However, the statements that the transgender conversation was already there before she came out is not true in regards to the whole world. If the transgender community just want to have a secret society of communication, fine. It's the obsessive need to talk shit about Caitlyn that has the conversation going on right here. Amazingly obsessed with her while citing her irrelevance at the same time. That in itself is contradictory. Doesn't make sense. The Cis community didn't know Jack shit about transgender issues before Caitlyn came out unless they majored in social sciences in college. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. People are finding out Cait is a transgender person, transgender people are not necessarily the kind,liberal open minded people you might assume. Thanks to the other women on the show we see (as we already knew) there are also intelligent, thoughtful, neat people who happen to be transgender. I don't care for this show, I can't stand Cait but this is the only comment you'll see from me because I don't spend 24/7 thinking about Caitlyn Jenner.

[millennium]

Caitlyn Jenner ‘willing to listen’ after meeting Hillary Clinton

 

Who gives a shit what Jenner thinks?   Or what Jenny Boylan thinks?   It won't change any minds, or if it does certainly not enough to matter.  

 

Jenner's entitled to her views.   What irks me is that she's espousing them while in the guise of being a leader of the transgender community.   LGBT people know by now she is no leader of any kind.   Unfortunately, mainstream society still seems oblivious to anything but the Vanity Fair cover and the intense "brave and beautiful" PR campaign, awards, etc. that followed it.   I'm sure some if not many people still consider hers a legitimate, authentic voice on the subject.  My concern, as always, is that mainstream society will continue to wrongly compare or judge other transgender people by the preposterous standard Jenner has set in their minds.    

Edited March 15, 2016 by millennium

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

'Passionate' Is A Lot Like 'Kill Me Now' On I Am Cait
The road trip gets uncomfortable as Cait's politics make everyone literally flee the room.

[SnarkKitty]

Caitlyn is a vapid asshole. However, the statements that the transgender conversation was already there before she came out is not true in regards to the whole world. If the transgender community just want to have a secret society of communication, fine. It's the obsessive need to talk shit about Caitlyn that has the conversation going on right here. Amazingly obsessed with her while citing her irrelevance at the same time. That in itself is contradictory. Doesn't make sense. The Cis community didn't know Jack shit about transgender issues before Caitlyn came out unless they majored in social sciences in college. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. People are finding out Cait is a transgender person, transgender people are not necessarily the kind,liberal open minded people you might assume. Thanks to the other women on the show we see (as we already knew) there are also intelligent, thoughtful, neat people who happen to be transgender. I don't care for this show, I can't stand Cait but this is the only comment you'll see from me because I don't spend 24/7 thinking about Caitlyn Jenner.

 

Really?

 

 

Time Magazine isn't exactly a "secret." Laverne Cox kicked the conversation off in a big way pre-Caitlyn.

 

Laverne Cox has been noted by her LGBT peers, and many others, for being a trailblazer for the transgender community, and has won numerous awards for her activist approach in spreading awareness. Her impact and prominence in the media has led to a growing conversation about transgender people, specifically transgender women, and how it intersects with one's race and identity. She is the first transgender person to be on the cover of Time magazine, be nominated for a Primetime Emmy, and have a wax work in Madame Tussauds.

 

Without the Kardashian effect, "Bruce Jenner, former Olympian transitions into Caitlyn Jenner" is a Zoey Tur story and kicks off nothing. Caitlyn herself does almost nothing to further the conversation, except exist as a Kardashian limb. Now in heels.

[Kromm]

Bingo. If we have to be as trite as to identify a "tipping point" it was Laverne Cox. Caitlyn Jenner was a massive blow in the other direction (people not taking transgender people seriously).

[Julia]

When Cait announced her transition, that great champion of keeping government out of other peoples' pants Sarah Palin welcomed her, and said that she was going to learn how hard it is to be a conservative woman. Which I think about sums it up. I think the milestone Cait represents is transgendered people being allowed under the IOKIYAR umbrella of Things Which Are Acceptable to Be If You Are Rich and Famous and Have the Right Opinions.

Which, admittedly, is a bit gag inducing for me, since hypocrisy, but I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that people who are kids now are only going to remember Cait as North West's other grandma, which is I think a good place to aim for.

[SmithW6079]

Thanks to the other women on the show we see (as we already knew) there are also intelligent, thoughtful, neat people who happen to be transgender.

People are also seeing that transgender people, even if they are "liberal," can also be closed-minded bullies. Jenny Boylan is doing a good job of that. Edited March 19, 2016 by SmithW6079

[iwasish]

People are also seeing that transgender people, even if they are "liberal," can also be closed-minded bullies. Jenny Boylan is doing a good job of that.

Is she any less close minded or a bully than Cait? Their politics are opposite, but that's about it.

I'd love to hear Kate Bernstein's unvarnished thoughts on Cait and her impact on their community.

[SmithW6079]

Is she any less close minded or a bully than Cait? Their politics are opposite, but that's about it.

That's my point. "Liberals" can be just as closed-minded as "conservatives," despite their cries for "tolerance."

[Julia]

Yes, of course they can, and I don't doubt that hearing unpleasant things from someone who thinks her education trumps Cait's social position and affluence was equally as unpleasant for Cait as being drowned out was for the others.

There is a case to be made, though, that there are a lot of people out there who have it way worse than any of them, and that advocating for those people is what Cait invited these women onto her show to do. I very much doubt that any of these ladies would have agreed to be there if they were told they had, say, to sign on for calling at risk trans women sexual predators to bring people to the polls. And that's essentially, in actual practice, what Cait is refusing to distance herself from.

In this particular argument, I think Cait's anger springs from having it pointed out to her that she's taking a position she's shielded from the consequences of, which is factually true. I don't particularly warm to didactic people, but of the two, I think Cait had the least justification for her behavior.

[lizzy07]

I was kind of annoyed with Kate when she insisted to Jenny that "T*****" is her NAME. I know she didn't mean literally, but I still wanted someone to say, "I thought Kate was your name."

If someone tells you a word offends them, wouldn't it be kind to just not use that word in that person's presence? Did Kate HAVE to dig in and insist "T*****" was her name? I just felt like she was being a shit-stirrer (like she was when she, admittedly, stirred shit by asking Cait "Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton?").
I still like her, though -- but I like Jenny more.

[Bob Loblaw]

Really?

Time Magazine isn't exactly a "secret." Laverne Cox kicked the conversation off in a big way pre-Caitlyn.

Laverne Cox has been noted by her LGBT peers, and many others, for being a trailblazer for the transgender community, and has won numerous awards for her activist approach in spreading awareness. Her impact and prominence in the media has led to a growing conversation about transgender people, specifically transgender women, and how it intersects with one's race and identity. She is the first transgender person to be on the cover of Time magazine, be nominated for a Primetime Emmy, and have a wax work in Madame Tussauds.

Without the Kardashian effect, "Bruce Jenner, former Olympian transitions into Caitlyn Jenner" is a Zoey Tur story and kicks off nothing. Caitlyn herself does almost nothing to further the conversation, except exist as a Kardashian limb. Now in heels.

She might have been on Time but nobody is talking about her except college kids, the transgender community and people on the freaking "Caitlyn Jenner forum " Glad you found one weak example. You made my point for me. Edited March 27, 2016 by Bob Loblaw

[Kromm]

She might have been on Time but nobody is talking about her except college kids, the transgender community and people on the freaking "Caitlyn Jenner forum " Glad you found one weak example. You made my point for me.

Is that a point you really want to win? That the necessity to get people talking about the issue was for a stupid, vain, selfish idiot to be hoisted into prominence through manipulation and embarrass the whole community?  That's kind of a Pyhrric victory of sorts if it's what was needed to get the masses discussing it, It's also had the domino effect of bringing down the people who supported the idiot so prominently last year. 

[Julia]

Laverne Cox was nominated for an Emmy for the role she's been playing on a hit series for the last three years, and she's starring in the upcoming Rocky Horror remake as Frank. I don't think the market for any of those things is limited to college kids, the transgender community or people on the freaking Caitlyn Jenner forum. I would actually make the case that despite being internationally famous for decades and having the benefit of the publicity machine her stepdaughter's sex tape built, Caitlyn has more or less faded from view since the high point of her moment. Which, as it happens, was a magazine cover.

[SnarkKitty]

She might have been on Time but nobody is talking about her except college kids, the transgender community and people on the freaking "Caitlyn Jenner forum " Glad you found one weak example. You made my point for me.

 

Don't do that. Gracefully accept that I made your weak point non-existent.

[HumblePi]

Caitlyn is a vapid asshole. However, the statements that the transgender conversation was already there before she came out is not true in regards to the whole world. If the transgender community just want to have a secret society of communication, fine. It's the obsessive need to talk shit about Caitlyn that has the conversation going on right here. Amazingly obsessed with her while citing her irrelevance at the same time. That in itself is contradictory. Doesn't make sense. The Cis community didn't know Jack shit about transgender issues before Caitlyn came out unless they majored in social sciences in college. You're kidding yourself if you think otherwise. People are finding out Cait is a transgender person, transgender people are not necessarily the kind,liberal open minded people you might assume. Thanks to the other women on the show we see (as we already knew) there are also intelligent, thoughtful, neat people who happen to be transgender. I don't care for this show, I can't stand Cait but this is the only comment you'll see from me because I don't spend 24/7 thinking about Caitlyn Jenner.

I have to agree with this very much. The bottom line is that if you have a dog that was born with only 2 legs and you take up the cause of 2 legged dogs and raise awareness that these 2 legged dogs need love and care and funding for their cause most people would say 'who cares? It's a dog' and immediately forget all about the 2 legged dog.

 

There's a significantly small number of transgenders in any community compared to it's overall population. Unless they have their own settlement and governing body within that settlement, they have to abide by the rules that are in place within the community they live in. Naturally people don't care what their struggles are and even if they did wouldn't go out of their way to get involved in their issues. Collectively they have a voice and it's up to them to make it heard by those lawmakers who can actually institute changes that they want to take place such as being able to use a public restroom designated for any person, male, female, lesbian, gay, straight, trans, etc etc.

 

When it comes to prejudices and disgust or hatred of the LGBT by some people in the US, there's not going to be any significant changes that suddenly happen overnight by anything Caitlyn Jenner does or by any of 'her girls'. Real advancements may not even be seen by their grandchildren, if they have some. People in general are just not willing to accept other people for what they are and take them at face value for the person inside. People are judged by others constantly and that's not going to change.

 

For me personally, Caitlyn Jenner has no redeeming qualities that I admire. She's the same person she always was, different gender. She'll always feel entitled, special, and deserving of respect and admiration. From the time she was in High School that's all she wanted. Praise, admiration and a feeling of superiority.

 

I just watched the episode from last week, the one where Caitlyn and 'her girls' (I hate that term) go to her alma mater, Graceland University. First of all, I've never heard of that university before and I'm sure that Caitlyn, coming from New York then residing in Connecticut all her life had never heard of it either before an athletic scholarship was thrown to her. When they were talking about sitting before the students in the auditorium, Caitlyn gave Chandi Moore specific instructions not to cause a ruckus if any student mentioned religion and transgender and how the two can coexist.  Caitlyn was very obviously trying to hold onto her 'hero' status at her alma mater. And good for Chandi, she refused to comply with Jenner's wish in no uncertain terms 'no way!'  If someone was going to bring up the religion issue, which someone did, then she's not going to sit there silent, she'll speak up. Caitlyn did not like the thought of that because it might embarrass her and she doesn't know how to respond to those types of questions. And I saw it the moment someone in the audience stood and asked the question about religion. Caitlyn sat there dumbstruck with her mouth open, absolutely unable to speak. That's when Chandi stepped in and took over answering the question.

 

In the final analysis, Caitlyn Jenner cares about one thing, herself. She assumed the role of being the torch bearer for transgender rights and thought she's be instantly accepted and admired. She isn't. Maybe if she was 20 years younger and lived inside her new gender in relative obscurity to the public, she might learn what the real issues are. But that's not happening and she's going to die of old age before she ever gets a clue. Yes, Caitlyn Jenner is a transgendered person, but that's where the similarities within that community end. She's selfish, self-serving, arrogant and thick headed. Oh wait, I just described a crotchety old Republican.

Edited April 5, 2016 by HumblePi

[millennium]

Yes, Caitlyn Jenner is a transgendered person, but that's where the similarities within that community end. She's selfish, self-serving, arrogant and thick headed.

 

I think she's more than that.    I think she is evil.   An ignorant and tedious strain of evil, but evil all the same.