Of Kings And Prophets - General Discussion

[frenchtoast]

Editor's Note:

Discuss Of Kings And Prophets Here!

 

Quote

The battle-weary King Saul struggles to defend his Kingdom from one of Israel’s ancient enemies, the Philistines, by marrying off his daughter, Merav, to Mattiyahu of Judah. All are hopeful this strategic marriage will unify the twelve Israelite tribes. In the midst of the wedding preparations, the prophet Samuel beckons Saul and relays a message from God that he must destroy the Amalekites, another of Israel’s ancient enemies. Saul dares to challenge the Prophet Samuel, setting in motion a series of calamities that will threaten his rule of the kingdom. Meanwhile, the shepherd, David, is determined to settle his family’s debts. He travels to the King’s palace in Gibeah with his cousin Yoab and makes the bold proposition that he can kill the lion hunting his flock. Queen Ahinoam scoffs at David, but daughter Michal thinks he just might accomplish this dangerous feat.

 

[Primetimer]

It's got swords, brief nudity, and scripture on its side, but is that enough to lure eyeballs from Game Of Thrones?

Read the story

[frenchtoast]

Just wanted to point everyone to the spoiler policy for this forum. These old historical and book based shows create a need for a special policy. In short, the big stuff doesn't need a tag, like David slaying Goliath. The lesser known stuff, please put a tag on it. This is mostly for the inevitable Book vs Show comparison and speculation about what will happen.

 

Of course, if it happens in the episode, it doesn't need a tag, but you already knew that. 

[Latverian Diplomat]

Somewhat tangentially, I still miss Kings.

[DearEvette]

Oh, hey is that Jeanine from So You Think You Can Dance? I liked her on her season!

[placate]

I don't know how I feel about this. I kinda know how this story plays out because I went to Sunday school, but I'm pretty sure David was picking fights with wolves and not lions. I also remember that he had a shepard's crook/stave or something which he used to beat said wolves. There's Goliath and he's tall and all, but I was more distracted by the fact that I couldn't understand a single freaking word uttered by the father of the murdered fiance. I don't like having to turn on closed captioning when the mostly British actors playing Israeli people have some guy with an non-understandable accent on the cast.

 

I think ABC is trying to be way too edgy. They want this show to have the gore that was in Spartacus, and the brief nudity to bring them up to premium channels, but it just doesn't work for them.

[TigerLily20]

David did actually slay a Lion and other animals than just wolves, but yeah he would have had a staff along with the sling, the Lion of course never had a name or was known throughout the land (or at least wasn't really mentioned much in the Bible other than, yeah I killed a lion).  I'm not sure how I feel about it, my husband said so far he's ok with it, historically it was a violent time, but I'm sure they are adding stuff on to make it more entertaining.  Anyone know how long this series is to go on for?

[placate]

Anyone know how long this series is to go on for?

I just checked and it says there are 10 episodes left on futon critic http://www.thefutoncritic.com/guide/when-does-insert-show-name-here-come-back/says there is 10 episodes left, but an 11 episode series is really odd. I checked imdb, which isn't that reliable, and Saul's daughter with the hots for David is listed for 13 episodes. I'm going to guess that means there are 12 episodes left.

[ari333]

Also, I HATE the Brit accents. Love it on real people, but not in this show. Why not let them have  Israeli accents if there must be accents.

 

I didnt' understand why the King sent the son-in-law-to-be to that other camp. Anyone? I sort of got the idea is that it was for weapons, but why send HIM right before his wedding? TIA

 

Did the prophet have an agenda about killing all those people "every last one."

Edited March 9, 2016 by ari333

[Eegah]

One really weird thing for me is that for most of the episode it seems like our sympathies are supposed to be with Saul, but then Samuel makes his prophecy about a new king that we know from the Bible (or maybe just Kings) is completely true. And given that ABC is explicitly trying to reach a Christian audience here, especially with the choice of commercials, are we actually supposed to be on Samuel's side here that God is never to be questioned even when commanding the slaughter of innocent women and children?

[ari333]

One really weird thing for me is that for most of the episode it seems like our sympathies are supposed to be with Saul, but then Samuel makes his prophecy about a new king that we know from the Bible (or maybe just Kings) is completely true. And given that ABC is explicitly trying to reach a Christian audience here, especially with the choice of commercials, are we actually supposed to be on Samuel's side here that God is never to be questioned even when commanding the slaughter of innocent women and children?

 

Meet me in small talk thread? Bc I have comments not related to the eppy, but are related to your post.

[ennui]

Lots of lamb / lion imagery. This show appears to be well-written, and I hope that continues.
I don’t think we’re supposed to question God. His ways are not our ways, and we can’t see the Big Picture.

[jhlipton]

One really weird thing for me is that for most of the episode it seems like our sympathies are supposed to be with Saul, but then Samuel makes his prophecy about a new king that we know from the Bible (or maybe just Kings) is completely true.

Reply in Small Talk.

I don’t think we’re supposed to question God. His ways are not our ways, and we can’t see the Big Picture.

That's the message at the end of the Book of Job. (God doesn't come off too good in that either.)

Edited March 10, 2016 by jhlipton

[Raja]

One really weird thing for me is that for most of the episode it seems like our sympathies are supposed to be with Saul, but then Samuel makes his prophecy about a new king that we know from the Bible (or maybe just Kings) is completely true. And given that ABC is explicitly trying to reach a Christian audience here, especially with the choice of commercials, are we actually supposed to be on Samuel's side here that God is never to be questioned even when commanding the slaughter of innocent women and children?

King David's story is so dramatic it might be assumed that it is known to some extent. It is not an accident that first NBC and now ABC choose it for a story. If you are reading the Bible from Genesis to Revelation in order then King Saul was not the first told to do something and he is shown questioning God. "we are the chosen people and should not do these things" to paraphrase him before deciding to go with what the Prophet Samuel. 

[frenchtoast]

Saul confides in David after Samuel's prophecy; Ishbaal plans to assassinate the prophet; as the Philistines prepare to wage war, the Israelites realize they're outnumbered; Ahinoam proposes a marriage between her son and the daughter of Eitan.

[Spiderella2]

There are so many unnecessary characters in this show. So many basic plot holes and very little character development and background. And I'm only 2 epis in but I have some nits already. I know this is loosely based on the Bible, but at this point they should just stop saying that and just run with their fictionalized, sensationalized prime time version.

Still waiting for the David v Goliath scene in the trailer. After that, if it doesn't get better, I'm probably done. The accents are so distracting because some people have them, while others don't. They should have kept it consistent, or hired the GoT language creator dude to make a special language for them. Historically, the Hebrews and nations around them don't even speak the same language today, and they did not back then. So why not have two very distinct languages. No...everyone is speaking Queens English.

Samuel is fit and spry for an older dude. And pretty bloodthirsty for a prophet methinks. How could an old man traveling in pitch dark not only see the expert assassin from behind, but kill him so quickly? I know the show attributes to God sees all, but that is stretching it a ton.

Speaking of stretching it...Michal (Mischa), David's first wife is flitting around the town at night with no supervision? She spent the night? Hanging with the harpist in a shed? Since when do royal princesses not have any guards or protection, especially at night, and especially when an invading army is camped nearby ready to invade 3 days away. Is virginity no longer prized? Guess the parents are too stressed or effed up to care. The other daughter was also shagging her betrothed that I get --- she was engaged. But Michal should be stoned for that according to the Books of Moses.. I get that she's the 2nd daughter, Kings fav, and everyone is focused on other things, but still...really bad parenting...something that wouldn't be allowed in the Hebrew culture. They kept in flogging, genocides, murder, but threw out virginity and purity? At least be consistent.

Plus, David is crushing so hard. He is more than halfway in love with her already.

He didn't even want to marry her according to the Book, it was a trophy prize for slaying Goliath that he was against but Saul agreed to because his daughter begged and schemed for it.

The betrayal of the tribe of Reuben is so bad. Turning against your own brethren for money...after all the Israelites had been through prior...Does not even make sense strategically for Hanoan to trade sides so quickly. And why would his 6,000 men agree to follow through with the betrayal. 200 bars of silver is not that much money divided by 6,000 men.

Saul's sons have potential to be good in moving the plot forward. Ichamael (sp) is turning to be quite the villain and bully. Will be a good antagonist for David. At least he has motives.

The spy chick, Servant/Mistress, I thought this episode they would delve deeper into her motivation for her being a straight double agent. The Philistine Queen with the boils has motive, even the Philly King does too. Does Saul know Mistress is a Philistine by birth and is just telling her all his secrets anyway? If that's the case then he is dumb, dumb, dumb.

Looks like Saul's wife knows about his dalliance and is so wounded by it. She spoke so well on the privy council, gave him 4 children, loves him despite himself, gave up her first love to marry him (Judah tribe leader), is the proper wife. She did everything right. She still gets tossed over for a younger, prettier model. At least that part is accurate to true life. ETA: okay just watched the end. Take back everything I said about the Queen. Guess everyone in this kingdom thinks with their libido instead of their brains. Hope David didn't tup her.

I always thought anointing was more than 2 drops of oil. Thanks for ruining that for me too show. Saul is seeming more and more like a megalomaniac...ugh. Okay, I'm all snarked out for tonight.

One more episode and I better see some giant slaying.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Spiderella2

[ari333]

Did David do the Queen? If he rejected her that could have cost him if she wanted to be bitchy about it. Saul rally is a dick to his wife. Wow. I kind of felt bad for the kid with the Philly silver that he gave to David for his harp music. But if you're murdering his parents, you cant let him live and not expect revenge when he grows up.

 

Why did Samuel kill the boy along with the assassin? 

[ennui]

I think anointing is more than two drops of oil, too.

I was too tired to watch the whole episode, but I will.

I suspect people do tend to think with their libido, more often than not.

[Dowel Jones]

I guess I'll have to get along with the accents, but if someone says wanker, I'm out. 

[TigerLily20]

I feel they are taking quite a bit of liberty with some unknowns, (really not feeling the whole David and the Queen thing...) but I also knew they would probably do this so I really shouldn't be surprised. As for the anointing yeah I was under the impression it was a lot more like pouring it over his head not just a drop or so.  Also I was kind of surprised they didn't show Samuel going through all of David's older brothers first, and if I remember after all of the older brothers passed by Samuel David wasn't even present.  Samuel had to ask if he had any more sons and David was almost kind of an afterthought.  I will give them credit for showing David's loyalty and devotion to King Saul, although not sure how long that will be shown after the killing of the boy.

[ari333]

That was kind of sad that the 9 yr old kid gave David the silver bc he loved his music (Was that it?) ANd that cost him his life.  

[skyways]

God doesn't come off too good in that either

 

 

Be careful. Humans don't /can't define or understand what is 'good' without God.

 

order then King Saul was not the first told to do something and he is shown questioning God. "we are the chosen people and should not do these

 

 

Saul fell from grace for that reason thinking he knew more than God by not carrying out the instructions explicitly. Personally I find David very fascinating and a real lesson in human strengths through failures and challenges. I also hope one day to see his son Absalom dramatized in fiction as well.

Edited March 16, 2016 by skyways

[Spiderella2]

I feel they are taking quite a bit of liberty with some unknowns, (really not feeling the whole David and the Queen thing...) but I also knew they would probably do this so I really shouldn't be surprised. As for the anointing yeah I was under the impression it was a lot more like pouring it over his head not just a drop or so.  Also I was kind of surprised they didn't show Samuel going through all of David's older brothers first, and if I remember after all of the older brothers passed by Samuel David wasn't even present.  Samuel had to ask if he had any more sons and David was almost kind of an afterthought.  I will give them credit for showing David's loyalty and devotion to King Saul, although not sure how long that will be shown after the killing of the boy.

Yes, that would have been a good scene to keep in. Kind of like a beauty pageant for men (or the Cinderella glass slipper moment).

Going through all the older, more athletic, more handsome brothers and then Samuel pressing Jesse until he revealed that he had the last son, the shepherd who was in the fields.

I think that was a missed opportunity by the producers.

In this version it seems like David is already quite the hero in his village, ever since last slaying the lion and getting his fathers tax written off. On top of that he's chilling in the palace embroiled in court drama as the royal harpist and no longer just a lowly shepherd.

The kid getting hung was also sad, but it allowed David to see Saul as a flawed King, and perhaps serves as a reason for why he would want to be king later on, knowing he could treat people better.

That was kind of sad that the 9 yr old kid gave David the silver bc he loved his music (Was that it?) ANd that cost him his life.

Something like that. The kid loved his playing, and gave him a tip. Too bad the tip was the silver bar that his dad got from the Philistines.

[blackwing]

Just started watching this, I saw the "Uncensored" version online.  I'm not sure how it compares to the version that aired on TV, but the one I saw they showed the daughter and her fiance in bed.  I think (emphasis on think, because it all happened so fast) 1) side breast and nipple of the daughter, 2) her butt through the filmy gauze, 3) his pubes and maybe the sock, 4) his butt.  

 

I had a lot of trouble with all of the characters, so I went online to look at the cast.  It appears that Saul has a daughter with the Queen, and then he has another daughter with a concubine?  In the cast photos, one looks Middle Eastern and one looks white.  I think the one that looks Middle Eastern is the one with the murdered fiance.

 

I also think the princess' two brothers look very much alike, and I even had trouble with David and his cousin or brother, not sure what he is.

 

Who is the girl who is the spy for the Philistine king?  Is that the princess' lady in waiting?

[ari333]

I thought the gf of Saul was the lady in waiting AND the concubine AND the (unknown) spy. And what kind of whore takes off her clothes in his sight while a man is kissing his wife?  I guess Im not cut out to be queen bc I couldn't tolerate that shit.... not for a minute. She'd be toast. It's like the modern day admonition of "get a nanny in her 60's who is sweet to your kids." Not that a 60 yr old chick cant be sexy - OF COURSE SHE CAN - but she'll be less inclined to go for the 20 something yr old husband of the house. (modern day example - not Saul)  (imo) Sorry for the rant

And to add for conversation - when a man cheats it is not always with a younger woman... just sayin.

Im still confused at to which of the four children are from the queen.

[Raja]

 

Im still confused at to which of the four children are from the queen.

They had three sons: Jonathan, Ishvi, and Malchishua. They also had two daughters: The older one was Merab, and the younger one was Michal.

[jhlipton]

Be careful. Humans don't /can't define or understand what is 'good' without God.

 

I will respectfully disagree and leave it at that.

[Trini]

Did David really have sex with the queen? I hope not, that's just too much extra DRAMA when there is already enough drama between the two families.

 

I also was side-eyeing Michal out, alone, with a man, all night.

 

Sucks that this got cancelled before it even got to the David/Goliath fight.

[placate]

Sucks that this got cancelled before it even got to the David/Goliath fight.

It's already been cancelled? I'm kinda sad because the Goliath fight would've been awesome, but I was hoping for an explanation for King Saul needing all the foreskins.

[Trini]

... but I was hoping for an explanation for King Saul needing all the foreskins.

 

As I understand, it was Saul's way of stalling the wedding and/or hoping David would die trying to complete an "impossible" mission. The show Kings also had a similar interpretation.

[blackwing]

They had three sons: Jonathan, Ishvi, and Malchishua. They also had two daughters: The older one was Merab, and the younger one was Michal.

That might be true in the Bible or history, but doesn't seem to be how it is in this show, which is what I think Ari333 was asking.

 

On the cast list on the webpage, there appear to be only two sons, Jonathan and Ishbaal.  The darker skinned daughter Michal is supposed to be the daughter of Saul and his concubine.  The other daughter Merab (who I think is the one with the murdered fiance) is listed as a daughter of Saul and the Queen.

[ari333]

We were just getting into this show. So of course it got canned. *sigh*

[ennui]

Wow.

 

I guess Damien is next, no one seems to be watching it, either.

[dargosmydaddy]

 

I guess Damien is next, no one seems to be watching it, either.

 

Cable shows usually have a longer leash.

 

*Sigh* I tuned into this solely for David Walmsley (the actor who plays Joab), and I was so happy he got to lose the ridiculous wig in episode 2, and now it's cancelled...