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S04.E04: Yol


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Add me to those put off by how modern Gisela looked following her discovery of Viking sex. The bouncy blow dried hair was ridiculous.

This season isn't doing it for me, between the multiple locations and Ragnar acting like an ass. And there's not nearly enough Lagertha.

 

I thought the transition from devout chaste Princess to Lifetime Romance heroine was way too much.  

 

I imagine the showrunners debated how to handle this...given modern sensibilities what probably would have happened (I read somewhere that Gisella was little more than a concubine to Rollo).

Edited by SingleMaltBlonde
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The story told by the new king (Harald, was it?) about the woman he loved that rejected him when he was a nobody, I took to be a reference to Aslaug. 

 

I think they know each other, and now that Harald has established himself as a warrior king to be reckoned with, he's decided to show up at Kattegat to win her over. Of course that's probably going to involve trying to kill Ragnar as well.

 

Even though the arrival of the new king likely spells trouble for Ragnar, he seems like an interesting character. I hope he sticks around for awhile. 

Could he be talking about the Asian woman? Yugi?  I thought the story she told about being captured dovetailed with his story.

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I know this is written for entertainment, so the characters have to have large personalities and storyline has to compelling, but it just gnaws at me that the people in this show behave so uncharacteristicly for 9th c people.  Of course there were always strong willed women, but the combo of Judith, Gisela, and CrazyPants being so outspoken and well, bratty, is silly.  Wessex especially bothers me.  Good Christian women had no power and no voice, no matter how loudly they spoke.  Speaking out would earn a smackdown by father or husband.  Plus the sexual escapades of Judith and Kwendrith would have sent them to prison.  Where is the Church in this?  The Archbishop should be dogging Ecbert and raining hellfire on the court for their adultery.  There is no way Kwendrith would be supported in her efforts to gain the crown of Mercia and no way her bastard son would be considered eligible to succeed her.  

 

That's why I'd rather the show stick to writing about the Vikings.  

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I kind of made the same point about Kwenddrith's "kingship" earlier (last page.)  Just more weakly and in an "ETA" postscript.  Historically, the first queen of England was in the 16th Century and was the Catholic Bloody Mary.  (Mathilde, 12th C, and Jane Grey, also 16th C, are both before Mary.)  Arguably, Mary was the first queen of a united England and Kwenddrith's country is hardly united but still, there are historians who spend their entire careers studying the female power base through history and there is no mention of a powerful queen before Mathilde, Jane Grey, and Mary.  Mary holds the winning spot as the first legitimate Queen in England.

 

That, of course, is based on my deep and incisive historical analysis based entirely on a BBC documentary I saw late one night years ago and today's Wikipedia page. /lol

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Had to chuckle at Aethelwulf and Kwen being all smiles and googly eyed at each other even while eating fasting gruel and then later at the party touching hands. That's the happiest he's looked the entire show. Boy, will there be blood when it all goes to crap.

King Finehair Harald is a nice new catalyst in Kattegat. Funny how earlier Aslaug was telling Ragnar she wouldn't be jealous if he got with Yidu and then then tables turned when he rolls up on her chilling with Harald and the crazy eyes appear and he's all like 'Who dis?'

I like seeing the perfect storm of worlds colliding that affect the Vikings: Rollo is all in with Gisela and France, he has love and the power of France behind him and is formidable. In Wessex King Aelle is reminding everyone he has issue with Ragnar and he hasn't forgotten. The precarious alliance between Aelle and Ecbert can shift the power of that force as well.

Meanwhile in his own backyard, Ragnar's got ascending Bjorn, duplicitous Kalf, Aslaug biding her time, and Floki subtly undermining him now through his son- and now a younger, fit, brash outsider with his own force in numbers has come to conquer to impress a girl and become King of Everything.

As Ragnar said, he's torn between welcoming and fighting off death. All we've seen so far is the wind up for a heck of a unwind when everyone starts fighting, backstabbing, and betraying for real.

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Every moment of this episode was pure gold.  Gold.  Pure fucking gold.

 

Especially 10 seconds of sparks floating into the blue night sky.

 

All of it.  Fucking love it.  How does it keep getting better?????!!!!!!!

 

(One question -- Queen Kwenthrith is calling herself queen/king except that "England" didn't have a female queen until the 12th Century with Mathilde and even that was contested.  Aside from her and poor Lady Jane, the first queen of "England" was really England and it was Bloody Mary.)

I think they are using "queen" for the show for the benefit of the viewer.  Kwenthrith rightly called herself "king" last night.  The reason bloody Mary was the first "queen" is because there was always some controversy in calling a female monarch in her own right "queen".  We do it all the time now but the queen was always just the title for the wife of the king.  Like, if Hillary Clinton become president, we won't be calling her First Lady; we're going to call her President.  It was the same concept back then.  Isabella and Ferdinand called themselves the Catholic Kings in the 1400's for that reason.  Isabella was a queen as she was wife a king, but she was a also a king in her own right.   

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I know this is written for entertainment, so the characters have to have large personalities and storyline has to compelling, but it just gnaws at me that the people in this show behave so uncharacteristicly for 9th c people.  Of course there were always strong willed women, but the combo of Judith, Gisela, and CrazyPants being so outspoken and well, bratty, is silly.  Wessex especially bothers me.  Good Christian women had no power and no voice, no matter how loudly they spoke.  Speaking out would earn a smackdown by father or husband.  Plus the sexual escapades of Judith and Kwendrith would have sent them to prison.  Where is the Church in this?  The Archbishop should be dogging Ecbert and raining hellfire on the court for their adultery.  There is no way Kwendrith would be supported in her efforts to gain the crown of Mercia and no way her bastard son would be considered eligible to succeed her.  

 

That's why I'd rather the show stick to writing about the Vikings.  

I disagree.  Technically the church had lots of rules, but in reality human relationships are what they are.  Sure as a husband or a father you could serve your wife a daughters church-sanctioned smackdowns till the cows came home but then what do you have in your life?  A bitter wife and bitter children?  If your wife is princess of Northumbria do you really want her as your enemy?  Surely you want her in a position to potentially convince her father the king of you position?  

 

Women and bastards could have been supported by others for the throne.  Clearly Ecbert is supporting her for his own political reasons, not because he is some feminist ahead of his time.  

 

BTW, women were in line for the English throne by law.  Matilda of the 12th century was the heir by law.  Naturally a lot of people had a problem with a woman in power, but just as many people didn't.  This was two hundred years later but the church was the same as were views on women and their "place" yet Matilda had enough support to fight for twelve long years and at least secure the throne for her son.  

 

I agree that much of Vikings is historically inaccurate (the French did not have table cloths until the time of Eleanor of Aquitaine).  But women have always had certain levels of power.  The reason so many people believe that medieval women did not have any power is because we are still living under Victorian age propaganda about the middle ages.  It was a highly romanticized version of medieval culture that was totally inaccurate.   

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My limited study of the history of the English monarchy is admittedly based on Wikipedia and a BBC documentary I saw late one night several years ago (LOL!) but -- I've never heard this interpretation of the terms of art "king" versus "queen".  Very interesting.  I do know that old BBC documentary would beg to differ.  Of course, now I can't find the documentary but it was called something like "The Queens of Great Britain".  If anyone knows it, feel free to post it.  The whole point of the documentary was to identify the first woman ruler (and they explicitly called her a Queen.)

 

Doesn't matter -- I still question that era Wessex and Mercia accepting a woman taking on that kind of role.  

 

Nitpicking.  Serious nitpicking because I loved the whole episode and the series.

 

ETA:  I'm not saying women didn't have power.  I'm saying that the whole idea of monarchy was so new -- to have a woman assume the role is historically inaccurate to a very large degree.

 

EETA:  History belongs to the winners, amirite?  According to the Richard III apologists (of which there are many), the Tudors re-wrote history to make him a huge villain instead of the last Warrior King of England (a title rightly his.)  Even Shakespeare bought into the re-write.  Today we would call it pandering, possibly.  From my short research, Mathilde and Jane Gray are both considered "disputed" queens but the closest thing to queens until Mary in the 16th C.

 

That's my last comment on the subject because it's my only question in the whole episode which was just perfect all the way around!!

Edited by Captanne
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So this will be my last post on this because I do not want to get too OT.  Kwen would not have been called queen in the times in which she lived.  Similarly, Matilda was not called queen either.  In fact, she never called herself queen.  She called herself "Lady of the English".  Even her son called himself Henry Fitzempress.  He was the son of the empress (Matilda having been married at one point to the Holy Roman Emperor), but not a queen. I am sure that historians and documentary filmmakers call her "queen" because we currently use that term to describe a female monarch who is ruler in her own right, but until the early Renaissance, a queen was the wife of the king.

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An uneven episode, to be sure.  Although I didn't care very much for the Yidu/Ragnar drug trip in the cabin, it is always a pleasure to watch Travis Fimmel.  I have never seen anyone with such icy blue, expressive eyes. Also, I liked the introduction of the new charming but sinister King Harald Finehair.  
 
Mainly I watched it for Rollo/Gisla.  The transition in their relationship was handled too abruptly, but I won't complain about the soft-focus lovemaking scene.  The scene at the Epiphany feast was fun! (Wonder what made the producers put Gisla in a black lace cocktail dress, circa 2015?)  I'm old.  I think I read the original Kathleen Woodiwiss bodice ripper novel (1972 or so).  I can only take so much tedious dreck in that kind of romance novel, and don't want a steady diet of fanciful make-up sex; however, I think there will be continued fireworks and storms in this marriage.  Gisla won't be able to help herself, will she?  I hope the conflict is handled well.
 
I was intrigued in the moment when Rollo hands Gisla a small book, leading her to ask if this is Rollo's confession of love and devotion.  It makes me wonder if the book contains poetry.  If so, the Vikings writing staff needs to hire a poet, post-haste!  Can we please hear Clive recite some romantic poetry?  Also, Clive said (in an interview that I have lost), that the first time Rollo sees Gisla up on the battlements during the siege of Paris, he thinks he is looking at a valkyrie.  Hmmm....

As for the female empowerment thing, I had a friend to tell me that the public cannot get enough of this theme.  He is right.  The producers of Vikings are likely walking a fine line when they interpret girl power among the Saxon and Frankish women.  My favorite historical figure is Queen Elizabeth I, the finest monarch England ever had, and no other woman can compare, and certainly not a vaguely formed fictional Queen Kwenthrith.  And that's because Elizabeth shared her power with no man.  But I guess it's nice that someone is trying to bring a fresh perspective to this early Medieval TV series.

The posts and writing at this site remind me very much of the writing at the now-defunct web site, Television Without Pity (TWOP).  I wish I could write half as entertainingly.

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I had to laugh at Judith's father being all "what the hell is going on here" with all the spouse swapping, though of course he only blamed Judith. I guess his return and Ragnar having a snake shack is a hit that his death is coming?

 

So Aslaug is the girl who wouldn't marry Finehair until he was really important, yes? She gave Yidu to Ragnar in order to distract him while she set all this up. Hopefully having Bjorn there will help Ragnar in some way.

 

I wish we were done with Floki. I hate that he's now building new power.

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England as we know it didn't exist yet. Unless I am missing something here. The area we know as England, wasn't it once ruled by the Celts? And then the Saxons and the Angles came and bye-bye Celts.  But if I remember right the Celtic people had female rulers - there was a famous queen who tangled with the Romans.

 

So there were female rulers on the British Isles long before before poor Jane Grey and Bloody Mary.

 

And since Richard III was brought up - yes, he was so totally a victim of Tudor propaganda and their favorite mouth piece Shakespeare.

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What Rollo handed to Gisla (the book ) was the annulment paperwork handed to him by the church cardinal. As if to say keep going with the annulment or toss it away - ladies choice.

Edited by Crackers
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The church's reach wasn't nearly that long back then, anyway. I think we're still within the time range where rulers regularly had multiple wives, with the previous one kind of being quietly shuffled off to the side. 

 

Aslaug hasn't been shown to be very proficient at anything other than having boys and epic RBF, so I don't know why she's on the "burn everything" train. Her solution to a strong-willed dude who doesn't listen to her is...to make googly eyes at another king-in-the-making who also won't listen to her? She's willing to overthrow her husband and disinherit her kids so she can have more power? She literally makes no sense to me right now. I guess that's the difference between her and Lagertha, she wants to be a legend and Lagertha wants to leave a legacy.

 

Speaking of, man is Lagertha going to red eagle everyone on that holding once she finds out what happened with Bjorn. I half expect Kalf will murder Harald's son just to buy himself some time. You know everyone in that room was wondering what exactly he had done that he was willing to have Bjorn come take his wife right in front of his face without a fight.

 

I'm kind of tired of the trope that female slave is immediately dtf the second overlord capriciously decides to give her "freedom". Hey dude who participated in the economic system that encourages wholesale slaughter and pillaging of innocent people, you left me penniless and with literally no means of returning to what I call home, you're so hot!

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Gee so all these people saying that there is JUST NO WAY a woman could have been ruler back then are basing that statement purely on speculation and not any real understanding of actual history?  

Taking this to the History thread.

Edited by Haleth
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What Rollo handed to Gisla (the book ) was the annulment paperwork handed to him by the church cardinal. As if to say keep going with the annulment or toss it away - ladies choice.

Hmmm...  I watched it several times.  The cardinal appears and announces he is presenting papers of annulment to Rollo.  The cardinal is holding a black leather folio, almost legal-sized, under his arm.  We don't see him hand Rollo anything.  After everyone is ushered out, Rollo gives a book to Princess Gisla, but it's not the legal-sized folio, it's a tiny book, less than the size of a personal journal!

I hadn't thought about it before, but this could simply be sloppy editing.  I'm not one to analyze editing, but if you view it enough times....  I'd still like to think it's a book of poetry, though.  :)

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Crackers, you are correct.  I hate making errors of fact, and I watched the scene again.  Yes, it was the same book of annulment papers, not a smaller book.  However, the hand-off of the papers to Rollo did contain an editing mistake.

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Crackers, you are correct. I hate making errors of fact, and I watched the scene again. Yes, it was the same book of annulment papers, not a smaller book. However, the hand-off of the papers to Rollo did contain an editing mistake.

Gosh, you had me wondering if I saw it incorrectly. Now I do "have" to watch again lol. My pleasure to do so. I enjoy continuity errors. Makes them human.

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I've done a marathon of this show over the last week and I'm really not liking the new season. This show infuriates me that they continue to keep Lagertha and Ragnar apart. I'm not saying they should get back together but why is Michael Hirst wasting the actors chemistry? It makes no sense at all. Have them interact, have Ragnar confide in her about his marital problems, how to ice fish, whatever. Please just have them interact.

I'm sorry but this new slave cannot replace the intimacy Ragnar had with both Lagertha and Athlestan.

Edited by SoWindsor
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An uneven episode, to be sure.  Although I didn't care very much for the Yidu/Ragnar drug trip in the cabin, it is always a pleasure to watch Travis Fimmel.  I have never seen anyone with such icy blue, expressive eyes. Also, I liked the introduction of the new charming but sinister King Harald Finehair.  

 

Mainly I watched it for Rollo/Gisla.  The transition in their relationship was handled too abruptly, but I won't complain about the soft-focus lovemaking scene.  The scene at the Epiphany feast was fun! (Wonder what made the producers put Gisla in a black lace cocktail dress, circa 2015?)  I'm old.  I think I read the original Kathleen Woodiwiss bodice ripper novel (1972 or so).  I can only take so much tedious dreck in that kind of romance novel, and don't want a steady diet of fanciful make-up sex; however, I think there will be continued fireworks and storms in this marriage.  Gisla won't be able to help herself, will she?  I hope the conflict is handled well.

 

I was intrigued in the moment when Rollo hands Gisla a small book, leading her to ask if this is Rollo's confession of love and devotion.  It makes me wonder if the book contains poetry.  If so, the Vikings writing staff needs to hire a poet, post-haste!  Can we please hear Clive recite some romantic poetry?  Also, Clive said (in an interview that I have lost), that the first time Rollo sees Gisla up on the battlements during the siege of Paris, he thinks he is looking at a valkyrie.  Hmmm....

As for the female empowerment thing, I had a friend to tell me that the public cannot get enough of this theme.  He is right.  The producers of Vikings are likely walking a fine line when they interpret girl power among the Saxon and Frankish women.  My favorite historical figure is Queen Elizabeth I, the finest monarch England ever had, and no other woman can compare, and certainly not a vaguely formed fictional Queen Kwenthrith.  And that's because Elizabeth shared her power with no man.  But I guess it's nice that someone is trying to bring a fresh perspective to this early Medieval TV series.

The posts and writing at this site remind me very much of the writing at the now-defunct web site, Television Without Pity (TWOP).  I wish I could write half as entertainingly.

I think quite a few people here are former TWOPers. I found TWOP  by chance a few years ago and was saddened to  see it's demise-- but then I found Previously TV, and am glad it's here for the snark we love to share. 

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I kind of made the same point about Kwenddrith's "kingship" earlier (last page.)  Just more weakly and in an "ETA" postscript.  Historically, the first queen of England was in the 16th Century and was the Catholic Bloody Mary.  (Mathilde, 12th C, and Jane Grey, also 16th C, are both before Mary.)  Arguably, Mary was the first queen of a united England and Kwenddrith's country is hardly united but still, there are historians who spend their entire careers studying the female power base through history and there is no mention of a powerful queen before Mathilde, Jane Grey, and Mary.  Mary holds the winning spot as the first legitimate Queen in England.

 

That, of course, is based on my deep and incisive historical analysis based entirely on a BBC documentary I saw late one night years ago and today's Wikipedia page. /lol

also from Wiki (note the name of #2)  

Three historical women:

Boudica was a queen of the Brythonic Celtic Iceni people of Norfolk in Eastern Britain who led a major uprising of the tribes against the occupying forces of the Roman Empire.

Ethelfleda (alternative spelling Aethelfled, Æthelfleda, Æthelflæd) (872/879 – 918), Queen of Mercia, called "Lady of the Mercians". Daughter of Alfred the Great, she succeeded to Mercian power upon the death of her husband Aethelred, Ealdorman of Mercia (883-911), in 911. She was a skilled military leader and tactician, who defended Mercia against neighboring tribes for eight years.

Gwenllian ferch Gruffydd was Princess consort of Deheubarth in Wales. Often accompanying her husband on "lightning raids," in 1136 she raised an army herself and led the forces in the battle near Kidwelly Castle.[13][14] Though defeated, her patriotic revolt inspired others in South Wales to rise.[13] Their battle cry became, "Revenge for Gwenllian!"[15]

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I kind of hate Gisla more for giving it up so easily. I'm not saying Rollo isn't tempting, because HOT DAMN; but come on. She's heretofore been painted as this righteous, principled being; and I really resent the implication that all she really needed was a good ol' Viking pounding to bring down her entire moral structure.

Actually, I thought she was pretty much painted as an arrogant, spoiled bitch. It's not a stretch to think that in spite of herself, she softened towards Rollo while watching his efforts to transform himself into a man more acceptable to her sensibilities, she even said as much. Also, the Viking brute never lost patience or his temper with her no matter how rude she was to him or how badly she treated him. And she is married to him, so why not put forth some effort to make it work? But fair enough, a good dicking never hurts and has been known to tame lots of shrews. Ask Scarlett O'Hara. LOL

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Also, Rollo could have taken her any time he wanted and her father wouldn't have objected because 1) he's scared of Rollo and he certainly doesn't want his savage, Viking brother coming back to Paris, and 2) he wants his daughter to get "put in her place" because she makes him feel inadequate.  But Rollo was smart enough to just bide his time and wait for her to come around to him.  

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On 11.3.2016 at 3:01 PM, attica said:

I gotta say, this show teaches me so much. First, where the Yule log tradition started. Second, that sex with a newly-frenchified Viking gives you immediate access to am electric blow-dryer and a styling brush. Not to mention illusion netting on your dresses! Third, a trip into a wiki wormhole about good old Harald Finehair!

His ancestry is interesting, isn´t it? Áslaug is "really" his great, great something grandma...

Áslaug from the stories is a wonderful character, but the show´s Áslaug is horrible.

I really loved seeing the Christmas vs Yule celebrations and Björn being awesome, but there was also some boring stuff like Ragnar hanging out with the slave girl.

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